CMV: Men Are Dangerous

marriage_is_hell · 2019-06-29T00:17:47+00:00

For purposes of this OP, I am ignoring, and insist that YOU ignore, the race dimension. Men of ALL races are dangerous. Mods, please feel free to delete comments that do not conform.

No.

The reason it's relevant is that it's nigh universally recognized in western society that crossing the street to avoid a young black male, even though every statistic and common sense insist you do so, is racist.

Women insist that they do no wrong when they treat all men like potential criminals... fair enough. But let the standard be applied evenly then. I'm weary of the hypocritical, all-too-convenient excuses that get trotted out by your side whenever someone makes the patently obvious comparison between blacks being treated as potential criminals, and men being treated that way.

It seems that many on the left (and I guess by left I mean anyone further left than a race realist) wants to believe themselves to be a Good Person (tm) who would never discriminate on the basis of race, yet you all feel no compunction about doing so when it comes to gender. That's bullshit, and despite the rationalizing, excuse making and attempts to find fault with the comparison (there are none) are just attempts to worm one's way out of the cognitive dissonance that inevitably arises from treating men the same way avowed racists treat people of color.

throwawayhouseissue1 · 2019-06-28T23:14:49+00:00

Something like this happened to me in real life. I work evening shift and get home around midnight. I get to my apartment and someone is in my assigned parking spot. And there is a person inside the car. I park a few spaces over and walk up to a young woman in the car (she has her window down) and she yells "I DONT KNOW YOU" I said, "You are in my parking spot." She yelled back, "You are a scary looking person you can't approach people at night!!"

I am tall and was on the heavier side at that time, but that really stung. This woman was yelling at me, and she was in my assigned parking spot. She was entirely in the wrong but I was somehow the asshole for approaching her?

Orange_Paisley · 2019-06-28T23:28:03+00:00

It would be interesting to know what percentage of men who think women are silly for being afraid of men are also the ones who claim that women who get hurt or killed by men should have known better than to wear that skirt, be in that neighborhood, have a drink in a bar, etc. Also, what percentage of those men are predators themselves.

SqueaksScreech · 2019-06-29T01:30:32+00:00

As a women I don't trust little old ladies either or children. Call me a bitch all y'all want I ain't getting kidnapped and raped helping a little boy get home who magically knows it's address but not the directions to their house. This is a problem in my area.

flyinghorse1 · 2019-06-28T23:39:41+00:00

A lot of men - rapists, domestics abusers, thugs - have ruined the reputation of ordinary men

CainPrice · 2019-06-28T23:42:45+00:00

This CMV needs a small edit:

Most men are not dangerous the same way a gun on the counter isn't dangerous. It's a little scary, but without somebody malicious shooting you, it's just a hunk of harmless metal.

Most men don't have the will to harm a woman.

But any one man is -potentially- dangerous, and it only takes one to ruin your life.

The thing is, any one crazy guy could be dangerous to men, too. But men don't walk around worried about that the way women do. Because while a man could be killed and robbed and beaten and stuff, he probably won't get raped.

Women would rather be murdered than raped. A woman's sexual choice is her source of power. A random man taking her power away is crippling. She'd rather die. If she gets raped, she'll live the rest of her life painfully aware that she has no power. Any moment, some man could just take it all away, and she lives the rest of her life fearful of that. It's no way to live.

Ofourkind · 2019-06-28T23:57:27+00:00

Well what I do know after 40 years on this earth is that exactly 5 men have physically assaulted me when I've been put minding my own business. Hundreds and hundreds more have yelled both vague and outright threats of what they'd like to do to me.

A woman has never followed me, yelled lude comments about my body, or assaulted me walking down the street. Not yet at least.

Men are also at risk from other men. Although I do wish more dudes could imagine what it might feel like for women. Imagine that a few times a week while you are out and about minding your business, a bigger stronger guy yells "hey that's a nice watch. I'd like to take it from you" or "nice car dude! maybe I'll take it for a drive later" or "I want to punch you in the face". Even if none of those people ever laid a hand on you, you'd be freaked out and suspicious. You would become very aware and even paranoid being approached.

And that's what it feels like

goatismycopilot · 2019-06-28T23:47:59+00:00

I never understand why the same men in PPD who talk about how men are bigger, stronger, driven by testosterone, and generally more aggressive get pissed off when somebody mentions menz is dangerous. Of course they are, to women and to other men.

Also the same men here who will get indignant are the same people when women are subjected to sexual assault or violence end up saying they should have known not to XYZ and then they could have magically avoided the event.

I spend most of my social time in Memphis which is a very violent city it is routinely ranked in the top 3-5 for violent crime and you can bet at night I am paying attention to my surroundings. I don't care if the man is young, old, black, white if I am alone and walking to my car and I am passing him in the street, he is a potential threat.

HottentotGenius · 2019-06-28T23:32:12+00:00

I read the OP. This is the definition of female fragility.

It's understandable for a woman to be afraid of some huge dude you don't know at night but to have that same attitude in a crowded place is just weakness.

Ironically this is also a great example of NAWALT. Not all women will run away terrified just because some big black guy said hi to her AFTER SHE WALKED UP ON HIM at night.

darudeboysandstorm · 2019-06-29T00:21:00+00:00

I read the same story, heres what I dont get. He was looking at a statue and only turned around because she was behind him. I am not sure if she was walking by or what but if she was close enough behind him that he noticed her and she is so afraid why was she so close to begin with?

P.S. the world is dangerous most people dont live their life in constant fear. Cars are basically death traps but we still accept that and live with it. Unless thats why women are such bad drivers because they fear cars... maybe you are just right.

Uberwensch · 2019-06-29T00:20:20+00:00

I have been harassed in public too many times to count, starting from age 11. Catcalled, butt-groped, boob-groped, crotch-groped, hand-up-skirt, cornered, head-grabbed-forced-kiss, followed home, locked in taxis, driven into an unlit carpark by an Uber driver, you name it... I have received unwanted attention from all kinds of men, homeless men, business men, young men, old men, security officers, bus drivers, the list goes on...

Now I love men - my dad is a man, my partner is a man, many of my friends are men. 99.999999999999999999% of men are good and great and trustworthy.

But in the dozens and dozens of times I have been made to feel unsafe in public, 100% of the perpetrators have been men.

There is literally NO WAY TO KNOW whether a random man poses a threat to you or not. Women don't want to be constantly on edge and nervous when we're out and about, but letting our guard down could have major consequences for us. Literally life or death consequences.

ohheyhi99 · 2019-06-28T23:11:30+00:00

“All men are dangerous” is silly and paranoid just like “AWALT” is.

Every single adult that I came in contact with today could have carried a deadly weapon and killed me with it. Everyone is potentially dangerous. To live normal lives, we have to take precautions in a balanced manner.

Sure, men, are usually strong and more likely to harm people than women are. And everyone should take precautions, especially women. But paranoia is a whole other thing. There need not be a binary choice between leaving the front door unlocked or installing 10 bolted locks on it.

——

Edit: Even if men are dangerous, it’s not an excuse for all manner of behavior toward any man in any situation. There can be cases where the woman is in the wrong.

“I could be killed today” is factually true, but it wouldn’t excuse every single behavior that I do to others in response to that fact.

Edit 2: The claim isn’t necessarily a problem, but the way that people use the claim can be problematic and go into scaremongering territory. And that can hurt individuals.

Malarki101 · 2019-06-29T07:58:44+00:00

I can't change your view, nor do I want to. I would suggest being cautious of men, always.

I can give you statistics that most rapes and child molestations happen with people that are known quantities, like family members...not random strangers. But, people aren't entirely rational. Stranger danger is very real but for the most part, unfounded.

Most people are good and kind. But, I have the luxury of believing that. When I'm walking down the street, I've never had some douchebag catcalling me. I have had, of course, people come up to me. Where I work is close to a train hub, so there has been a lot of both male and females, riding the rails, that approach me at the gas station for money. As a kinda physically fit 35 year old male at 6'3”, all I have to do is widen my eyes a bit and it's no longer an unwanted interaction I have to deal with. They go away.

My heart goes out to the women that don't have my privledge. I can walk down any dark alley without feeling any bit of fear. People fear me. And that sucks in its own way that I don't think most women understand.

If I'm walking behind a girl just trying to get to her parking spot after a concert, she will quicken her steps because, well, she's 5' nothing and my lanky ass walking behind her is about to pass her. It is scary for her. I just wanna get to my parking spot, and the simple act of walking at my normal pace is threatening to a girl. It kinda makes me feel bad. I will pretend to get a text on my phone and sit on the curb to let her get some distance and feel safe.

rachaellefler · 2019-06-28T23:38:47+00:00

I was hit in the eye by a strange man, for no clear reason. If it had been a woman I doubt I'd had to go to the ER and get stitches. It would have sucked but physically men are stronger and more aggressive on average than women. Because that's what testosterone does. If men have a right to worry women will use soft power, like influence over children, sympathy winning on social media, and crying in the court room, women also have the right to worry about men and how they will use their muscles. And how they might be more prone to anger, violence, and aggression than women on average.

meomeowmeoww · 2019-06-29T00:09:14+00:00

I find it unbelieveable or just so cushy that a man would think men aren't dangerous. Men go after other men. I was bringing my cat to the vet last night and seriously some muslim dude was being all aggressive and stole another guys charger.

Its pretty obvious the men saying that are a bit.... pampered.

lestratege · 2019-06-29T00:18:46+00:00

Everything is dangerous. Danger is a potential. Now the question is about how you react to danger.

Is freaking out in the vicinity of big men going to reduce the odds of violence? Of course not, but it makes these women FEEL they are in control. Feeling is the only thing that matters to them. The tail that wags the dog.

ZoroasterFlame · 2019-06-29T00:35:06+00:00

A man who does not perceive his own danger is mentally a child; not necessarily more dangerous, perhaps even less dangerous, but, I suspect, much less attractive.

exodvs · 2019-06-29T01:06:24+00:00

Considering men declare more wars, commit more police brutality, and are more likely to commit every category of violent crime, I'd say this is a fair assessment.

PanderjitSingh_k · 2019-06-29T03:38:08+00:00

So disingenuous. I’m a sizable man and I take significant steps to protect myself from men. Why? Because I’ve been violently assaulted by men countless times.

Women generally do not take significant steps to protect themselves from men. Why? Because the vast majority of women only experience help and protection from men.

If women were really afraid they’d take precautions like men do.

wageovsin · 2019-06-29T02:27:02+00:00

A lot of men also walk around night cautiously as there is a danger of other men mostly at that time. Men are more likely to use physical advantage either through passive intimidation or outright crime. And enough justify it as just natural. We respect those with physical strength because of that potential. Its not that women cant be assertively agressive and asssult a bystandered. But i believe its far less likely in thst situation. I apologize for not bring in any data or study. Not invested enough

happycheese86 · 2019-06-29T05:12:32+00:00

Men are dangerous. I rather walk with a weapon and avoid men and hurt some feelings rather than a false negative that costs me my life.

[deleted] · 2019-06-29T08:26:54+00:00

Yes. Even men know men are dangerous. But if it's such a problem, don't leave your home. We assume risk everyday when we leave our homes. Do you know what other things are dangerous?

driving and/or speeding
eating processed foods (cancer)
being obese
smoking
drinking alcohol
lying to intentionally cause someone harm
owning a weapon
playing sport
eating from animals that suffered before death
doing drugs

You know what could solve some of those problems? Islam. Yes, you could live a danger-free life as a protected Muslim wife, including having your own personal chaperone so being out at night is not scary.

If you're going to say men are dangerous, you need to consider that men are ultimately the ones who bear the brunt of the violence. For every violent man, there are way more men willing to protect.

Example: https://expo.oregonlive.com/erry-2018/05/0c41fc7ed2594/max_attack_time_line.html

In this story, some men intervened when a guy (Jeremy Joseph Christian) was yelling at two Muslim girls on a train in Portland. Christian slit the throat of two of the men. The men that died didn't even know the women. There are countless stories of men sacrificing their lives for women, such as being human shields during a school shooting or going down with the ship while women and children got on life boats.

For sure men are dangerous, but they're also often the ones protecting women from said danger and getting hurt or dying. Another issue you have not considered is that women LOVE dangerous men. Criminals, men in uniform (fire fighters, police, military etc) and contact sportsmen (boxing, MMA, football, rugby etc) all get love from women. Even school bullies get more love from women than victims.

It is ironic that women complain about men being dangerous when they seek out dangerous traits in sexual partners. And if you believe that children have the traits of their parents, women are contributing to the problem by breeding with dangerous men, becoming single moms and raising potential criminals. Go look at the stats about how many men in jail come from single parent households.

OP, by removing the context, you could just as easily assume women are cowards for not sacrificing themselves to protect men. You've also basically claimed that women are incapable of dealing with the outside world. It's actually safer today in the west than it's ever been and men cannot be held responsible for your neuroticism and paranoia.

alilabelle · 2019-06-28T23:53:58+00:00

Damn beat me to it

If AWALT means that all women contain within themselves the potential to branch swing once a given man no longer meets her needs, then I would argue that AMALT means that all men contain within themselves the potential to use violence and force against women to get what they want. Men are dangerous

But only one of these things is broadly socially acceptable, even though both are reasonable, self-protective perspectives.

It feels like this is the case with nearly everything. Women can do whatever they need for their protection and that's just dandy, but when men do what they need for their protection it's some kind of moral fucking crime.

It's almost like society just wouldn't care if all the men (except the most useful) simultaneously died in a ditch. (Not really but kinda).

And here's why I say that:

Why is it only bad when men take precautions and treat all the MandMs in the bowl as potentially poisonous? Is only physical harm justifiable as being wary of? Even though emotional pain is very, very real?

That's the real question.

to_yeet_or_to_yoink · 2019-06-29T00:09:05+00:00

Yeah, nah. If a woman assumes that you're a threat just because you're a man, she's an asshole.
"But rape statistics show-" rape statistics show that you're far more likely to be assaulted by someone you know than by some random stranger.
"But men are more aggressive and abusive and-" The couple dynamic with the highest rate of domestic abuse is that of lesbians. Women are more likely to lash out and strike their partners, especially if it's a man because they can get away with it. Anytime a woman hits a man, it's seen as comedic.

Acting like an asshole to someone because of their gender, regardless of statistics, makes you an asshole. Statistically speaking, some races commit more violent crimes than others but if you lock your doors when you see them, or run away screaming, that doesn't make you a reasonable cautious person - it makes you an asshole.

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-06-29T00:29:30+00:00

How small of a man would you have to be, to be justifiably as fragile as women?

Even when I was 10 years old and as strong as a woman, I was never this scared and fragile as the women here are suggesting they are.

Pope_Lucious · 2019-06-29T00:13:50+00:00

CMV: Women are weak

NockerJoe · 2019-06-28T23:14:33+00:00

People are dangerous. Yes men are on average stronger than women but a woman with a cheap kitchen or pocket knife can still kill you. A woman with a gun shoots the same as a man. Not to mention being run over, pushed into traffic, poisoned, or the million ways any person could kill you if they really wanted to.

I'm 6'4 and work out. I don't need to be afraid someone will challenge me so I'm not gonna dictate how afraid someone should or shouldn't be. But at least get it right. If someone wants you dead and puts a minutes thought into the how they could be Dwayne Johnson or Peter Dinkladge and it wouldn't matter.

I'm not in the buisness of meaningless platitudes of human nature, just like I'm not in the buisness of changing my behavior if random women feel unsafe. Life is what it is.

sadomasochrist · 2019-06-28T23:29:34+00:00

AWALT isn't about potential. It's about having behavior patterns. Men aren't typically violent towards women unless they invite violence or are incredibly reckless (hanging out with criminals).

This is a code that men innately understand.

When you show up to another man's house or ride in his car, you treat him with respect, your you should be prepared to fight.

These are things women frequently disregard. Many are oblivious because they're surrounded by men who will defend or even instigate for them. It takes a tremendous amount of missteps for a woman to even be verbally assaulted much less physically assaulted when men would have had their asses beaten 20 missteps earlier.

Furthermore, the same men who would target women are the men who target men. They are praying on weakness. Whether its a soyboy or a 4'9" girl with cokebottle glasses, it doesn't matter. They are a means to an end, whether its cash, pussy or entertainment.

So to be clear, the same concern women have, men who are not morons or MMA fighters have this feeling as well. ESPECIALLY in "bad areas."

You would never catch me in a low income area at night.

What you're conflating here are criminals. And the reason why women in western nations commit less crime is because they have little to no reason to do so.

In other more dangerous nations, men see women as equally as likely to perpetrate violence and are aware that very often women use their image to perpetrate crimes and violence.

So more or less, you're projecting your affluence here.

DownvotedFreethinker · 2019-06-28T23:42:40+00:00

Yea, totally. I'm a man. We're fucked up. It's something that definitely needs to be addressed. I am not feminist. More of a Male rights activist.... I guess.. if I had to choose. Men have testosterone and it effects our behavior and people just ignore this fact. We're kind of unpredictable... having said that.... I'm not saying testosterone is the problem because it is very impactful on a man's well being.

Idk .... I guess awareness is the main step

BePrivateGirl · 2019-06-29T02:40:23+00:00

I love the early scene in “Nocturnal Animals” where the two girls get abducted. It’s so creepy and so long. You can see the end of the scene from the beginning. And I literally don’t know WHAT Jake Gyllenhaal could have done to prevent it from happening. It was a slow, haunting, burn.

Real life is not like that.

People don’t act like that.

When I’m at work and I interact with the public I carry on through all this training about how body language and non verbal cues speak louder than your words. so if you have fucked up nonvetbal cues and body language people notice more than you think.

I also listen to and participate in a lot of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Your THOUGHTS lead to your FEELINGS which lead to your ACTIONS.

If you walk around and conduct your self in every social setting thinking “I’m scared” “men rape” “I am weak” then you are setting the stage. Those are your thoughts and prejudgements. I’m not blaming victims. Im not. But if you create your own reality with your distorted thoughts, and look for evidence all around you to reinforce your fears, and feed yourself a steady stream of rape and torture porn news articles then you will interpret every awkward encounter that you have with an inexperienced young man as the penultimate fight for your life.

Fucking calm down.

Men are manipulative. Women are too.

Move on. Fearing men is going to perpetuate the problem, your own fears are going to put people off. I can’t imagine carrying myself around fearing every man. It’s just as silly as if you made it about race and walked around fearing good citizens who didn’t look like you.

Maybe if we started giving more people the benefit of the doubt the world would be a better place.

-OpportunityCost · 2019-06-29T03:52:41+00:00

Duh, men are bigger, stronger, and driven by testosterone. This guy honestly is just probably oblivious. The deal is if you are a big strong man then women will most likely see you as a potential threat especially at night without many people around. I can understand him feeling upset when he had no bad attention, but it is how society sees people. I was shopping one time with my black friend and I was walking around with my hands in my pockets and he started telling me about times he was confronted by employees for doing the same thing. I had no idea that was even a thing cause I have never had an incident or been with white friends who have said something like that. You can't stop people from holding ignorant biases, but it is good to understand the biases that alot of people have.

AutoModerator · 2019-06-28T23:03:58+00:00

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Rainwolf343 · 2019-06-28T23:55:39+00:00

Men are taught that the world isn't fair, and if you want to protect your family, then YOU have to be the one to do it. This teaches us that we must be strong and ready to fight anyone who may pose a threat to us.

I don't think men are dangerous, per say, I'd say men are more likely to get in a fight with another man. However, due to how sexualized society has become, I do believe women have a point to be cautious about being raped or sexually assaulted.

Truth is, we as humans don't like strangers. We don't like what we don't know. I know I personally get a bit defensive when I walk past people I don't know who could pose a threat to me.

darksoldierk · 2019-06-29T00:28:24+00:00

> all men contain within themselves the potential to use violence and force against women to get what they want.

What you just said is the status quo for the view of men in the modern world. Men are accused of and judged by not what they themselves have done, but what they have the potential to do. That's why it's easier to falsely accuse a man of rape and get him set to jail than a woman. That's why it's easier to justify the stigma against hiring men in child care services and the educational system.

So, if you are arguing that men are ALL dangerous, that men are ALL violent, that they are ALL potential rapists and murderers, and that potential is sufficient to treat them as if they have already commited the crime, then are you also agreeing that the sexual strategy defined by TRP (not just branch swinging) can be extrapolated and thrust upon every woman as an inherent part of their character?

reluctantly_red · 2019-06-29T01:13:15+00:00

Totally unknown men are totally unknown quantities, and are therefore potentially the most dangerous of all.

This is a terrible risk management strategy. The vast vast majority of assaults on women are by men the women know well.

Shadow_Of_ · 2019-06-29T03:12:41+00:00

It takes one man to save your life and it takes one man to save your life. Maybe you can appreciate our protection from time to time.

Million-Suns · 2019-06-29T05:03:57+00:00

If AWALT means that all women contain within themselves the potential to branch swing once a given man no longer meets her needs, then I would argue that AMALT means that all men contain within themselves the potential to use violence and force against women to get what they want.

That's not a fair comparison at all.

Women are in general attracted to men with high status and money. A minority does not care.

Men in general are not rapists. A minority is.

I see zero pros with rape, only cons, nor I personally find violence arousing. So the claim that this is what men want is odd. As if men want to be jailed for putting their totem into one female of whom they do not know the hygiene status. Really ?

Even if there was something magical assuring to get away with it 200%, I would not do it for it is simply gross.

But women are nervous about men. In general. If we are alone in the dark with you... we will be on edge.

That's plain stupid to genderify this. As a man I would be on edge regardless of the person's gender. A woman crossing another woman in the dark , should also be afraid. You don't know if she's armed and can be equally or more dangerous than an man. Also, are women nervous about their brothers, fathers, cousins, etc? Because, last time I checked, they were men...

[deleted] · 2019-06-29T05:06:35+00:00

I think its good to be feared, it means that less people annoy you.

Something I have noticed about women is that its all perception (true for men as well I guess). A guy who seems normal (looks and personality wise) will not seem like a threat compared to a guy who seems weird. The "weirdo" could actually be harmless and the "normal" guy could be like Ted Bundy. But it's all perception, which is what really runs the world.

wtknight · 2019-06-29T05:14:46+00:00

Not all men have the potential to use violence and force against women to get what they want, just because they have the physical capacity to do so. The danger comes from intention, which is a mental thing, not a physical thing. Of course women should always protect themselves, as nobody can read minds, but not all men are inherently dangerous.

[deleted] · 2019-06-29T05:34:34+00:00

The strawman you gave us is a non-sequitur if what you’re trying to do is point out a logical fallacy in AWALT. What you described is potential male behavior in a specific situation. AWALT doesn’t seek to do this to the degree you just described. If you want to clearly disprove the premise of AWALT or perhaps something about it, you need a better analogy, because this one quite frankly is shit. The two aren’t even vaguely comparable. How many men impulsively decide to kidnap a woman while they’re walking down the street at night? Very few. How many women break up with their boyfriend to get with someone better?... A lot. Not even defending AWALT at this point, just saying you clearly need a better analogy. A woman’s proclivity to have sex is far more common than a man’s desire to kidnap/rape somebody. They’re completely different emotions and thoughts, viewed completely differently by society. Women are practically encouraged to have sex. Men aren’t encourage to kidnap women on the street at night. The more I think about it the less sensible this comparison gets.

[deleted] · 2019-06-29T05:46:31+00:00

Not to mention the fact that “all men are dangerous” is an emotion you specifically feel. The person down the street from you is unknown. When humans don’t know what something is, they get scared. If you knew the person walking towards you, you wouldn’t think that person is dangerous, would you? You’re projecting your fear onto the unknown. You’re scared of men who kidnap women. Therefore, when you see an obscured man in the dark, you project that fear onto them. Your assumption does not define reality. How do you know someone you know and like isn’t dangerous? You can’t. Same with someone you don’t know.

H2orocks3000 · 2019-06-29T06:53:45+00:00

The odd thing, is everyones self esteem both girls and guys get hit. Because for it to be a logical reason to run away would hurt that guys self eateem.

If she did kinda over react she does kinda need an actual reality test to some extent but I'm not trying to say she was wrong or something.

statsfodder · 2019-06-29T07:10:04+00:00

Can't seem to find the automod... just the same as I can't see mods removing the numerous top level comments that agree with the OP.. is this TBP or SRS?? Is PPD a man bashing sub now as well?

undeadko · 2019-06-29T07:16:28+00:00

You are saying " Men are dangerous. " like all men are dangerous. This is simply wrong. Some men are dangerous. I totally get why a woman would be scared from all men at night - she cannot afford to take any chances! Better safe than sorry.

I have never had an issue with this. I usually feel bad for the woman and always instinctively want to show her somehow that I am not what she thinks I am. I quickly remember that if I open my mouth and make a sound I will simply freak her out so I simply leave her alone to the best of my ability.

I am by no means a huge guy. 176cm tall and lean. I never thought that I pose any threat to a woman. Well women do not think so when it is 2 AM in the morning. There was this one time I was walking home and there was a girl in front of me. At first she did not realise I was behind her so she was walking normally. So I am walking behind her and going home and unintentionally slide my shoe on the ground which makes that all familiar noise. She realised that there was someone behind her. Looked back. Returned her head forward and started accelerating. It was kind of funny to me to see this woman acting all normal for 3-4 minutes and all of a sudden increase her speed by 30% just to subtly "run away" from me. I also realised that she was probably terrified. What a horrible world to live in. My instinct was to tell her that it is alright and I am simply walking and minding my own business but then I thought "that's literally what anyone would say" so I dropped it.

Guys read some social queues. If you see a woman affraid - leave her be.

Now there are some times when a woman would say things like "You are a scary looking person you can't approach people at night!!". This is stupid. I am free to do whatever the hell I please. Furthermore, by that logic, in my previous example I would not be able to walk home just because there is a woman in the way.

Girls do not say those things. First, you will achieve nothing. If the guy wants to attack you, he will attack you. What do you think "stay away, you are scarry!" will do? Hilarious! On the other hand, if the guy was not going to attack you, you are giving him a pretty good reason to initiate some sort of activity with you. You are being in the way / telling him he cannot do the thing he is out to do. He now sees you as a barrier which keeps him from his objective. Do you know what guys do to people who are in the way of an objective? They get rid of them and complete their objective. In a situation where you are alone, you do not want to be that person.

Clarification for all the people who will start assuming shit: I do not say that you have to give a guy everything he wants. I am simply telling you to not get between the hippopotamus and the river.

lukeyj_gtfc · 2019-06-29T09:25:04+00:00

Some men are dangerous, some women are dangerous.

From what I understand, women are more at risk when they meet someone at a club. Stranger incidents do occur but they are rare. The media has overstated the risk. It's more dangerous to cross the road and people aren't freaked out about crossing the road.

It's discriminatory to assume all men are dangerous. Some may appear intimidating and being are of that at night is logical, but it depends if it's genuine concern of risk or just general dislike and disgust. That'd be wrong.

I'm a man, I'm not dangerous. I ensure at night I'm not perceived as such. Women are just as guilty of domestic abuse and with weapons so are dangerous too.

Not all, just some.

double_red · 2019-06-29T09:45:57+00:00

If the man in the story was a rich handsome white CEO like Christian Grey instead of a random large black man, the chick wouldn't be scared.

abaxeron · 2019-06-29T10:12:16+00:00

Fringe examples (paraplegics) aside,

1) Attack on line of reasoning.

"Her fear is justified because nobodies on Reddit think it's justified" is by itself weird, BUT - Google -> "Alex from Target". That AITA woman was not afraid of that man's maleness, but of his non-conformity to her aesthetic preferences.

2) Attack on conclusion.

"Women act rationally when they act on their fear of men".

Female pedestrian death rate from road accidents is about 0.87/100000/y. Female death rate from stranger violence is about 0.05/100000/y.

By this logic, that AITA woman should run ~17.4 times faster from cars than from male strangers.

For comparison, the chance of divorce initiated by a woman is around 30000/100000. AWALT and AMALT are statements with different merits.

This is of course completely disregarding stranger violence to stranger assistance ratios. I know and can demonstrate that women would have been worse off in an all-female town, all-female district, and all-female nation, but it's tangent to the topic of stranger fear and stranger violence.

kor8der · 2019-06-29T11:59:29+00:00

Given this logic, men and women are dangerous. Seems useless.

rasmelo · 2019-06-29T12:26:34+00:00

50% of men are dangerous. Not all men. AWALT is different because hypergamy is actually a positive quality. Go ahead and say AWALT, it's a good thing that women want the best. If a man is threatened by this, it's male weakness. Which is basically running rampant on TRP.

[deleted] · 2019-06-29T13:30:37+00:00

Men are dangerous, Women have crazy, Brazilians are illiterate... All of them are true, however only to an extent, the thing is... which extent?

51% of Brazilians are functionally illiterate. (IBGE)
10% of women have some kind of clinical psychological disorder. (APA)
1% of men commit a violent crime at least once in their lives. (Census)

The thing is... where is the cut?

You see, in my area, the social sciences, when dealing with groups we stability the traits of a group based on the % of their traits inside a group. Traits are not immutable or even define the group, as the name says, it is a trait that the group has in part.

Don't confuse however the traits of a group with the definition of a group, as for example, the group "Genetic male" means a person born with the chromosomes XY, not their views or dreams or anythings... just its definition...

This group have some traits which may include a penis (98%), a enhanced fast twitching muscle fiber (99%), Being right wing if in Brazil (65%) or being entrepreneurs in Brazil (0.5%)

So what?

Simply put, rational strategies are made based on: (the sum of) the gains times its chances of happening minus the loses times its chances of its happening. the formula: Σ Gain x Chance + Loss x Chance (There is way more to that, but I will finish at here for brevity's sake)

Example, driving a car have a enormous danger of losing your life, however the chance is small... while the gains of commodity and practicality are continuous and enormous, that is why driving a car is considered a rational strategy.

How then avoiding "AWALT" and avoiding "Men" is different?

Simply put, in the chances, gains and loses of each are quite different. There have been debates in the exactly chances but I will use my own perception.

Each behavior a woman does in the SMP and RMP has a aprox. 70% chance of being explained by AWALT hypothesis, some ranging from mildly irritating (lack of self awareness) to highly beneficial (Enhanced sexual activity) to down right disastrous (divorce rape, suicide as the only option). The chance of these behaviors is high, so the loses outweighting the gains in LTRs is why most TRP do not want a LTRs. Mind you, it is not like there isn't women with a AWALT behavior close to or at 0%, but that it is incredibly rare for the limited resources of men.

In comparison, of the men you meet, even in places like Brazil the chances of danger is less than 1-5%. I understand that the consequences are big if you choose badly, like death or rape, however the chances are still small. Even if you talked all day with unknown men you probably would not be attacked so easily. However do not mistake me, context is everything. You have a really enhanced chance of ending badly in a dark back alley street with a dangerous looking man. So you should avoid such situations just as much as TRP avoids LTRs. But on everyday conditions, to consider men dangerous may see a bit strange, and if you consider men dangerous but women not AWALT, then you clearly have 2 different lines for behavior as one is way more probable than the other, ie. double standards.

TL:DR.

Chances and Gains/Loses are taken into account on rational behavior and trait definition. Thus "men are dangerous" as a definition may reflect one has not come to deal with the concept correctly, and that to think "Men are dangerous and Women are not AWALT" would be a clear double standard.

shonenhikada · 2019-06-29T14:17:14+00:00

Women only value 3 things in men

Looks (height and/or face)
Money
Social status

Im sure if op dressed better and/or ada better face,she would not feel threatened.

Seroriman · 2019-06-29T17:03:12+00:00

I dunno. I mean yeah, technically I could probably physically overwhelm nearly all women out there within seconds, so I get the theoretical concept. As a man, I also have heightened aggression (albeit also a lot more practice at reigning it in). Still, I have never hurt a woman, and I'd wager the majority of men haven't either.

The main thing is basically the fearfulness. There are men out there who could beat me, and yet I don't fear them unless they start acting in a suspicious or intimidating manner. Women who fear men even when they are not actively looking like trouble must have a pretty stressful life...

Five_Decades · 2019-06-29T19:25:21+00:00

A small % of men are dangerous. I think over the course of their lives, about 5% of men will rape someone. Of that 5%, an even smaller percentage are serial sex criminals (people like Bill Cosby with 60+ victims). I believe 1-2% of men commit 60% of the sex crimes, I think the figures are around that area (that is what I've heard). A tiny % of men will sexually assault numerous women, and make up the majority of the sex crimes in society. These men tend to have mental illnesses like anti-social personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder too.

But I agree that women don't know who those 5% of men are.

But I don't know if I'd agree that 'men are dangerous' because of that. If a woman is raped and calls the police, many of the police who help her are men. The people who imprison her rapist are men. etc.

Also lots of groups have a very evil minority. A minority of police are very evil. A minority of black people are very evil.

But a minority of women are extremely evil too. A small % of women are seriously unhinged. They'll lie to the police, lie to your friends and family, steal your money, destroy your reputation. But I wouldn't say its warranted for all men to fear all women just because 5-10% of women are complete psychos who can't feel empathy. FWIW, the women who are complete psychos tend to have borderline personality disorder which along with narcissism and anti-social are all cluster B traits.

So basically, I think its safer to say 'avoid the hell out of anyone with a cluster B personality disorder' irrelevant of their race, gender or age. Those people are fucking dangerous.

Henchman20 · 2019-06-29T19:27:11+00:00

People are dangerous. Fixed that for ya.

Bntt89 · 2019-06-29T20:38:39+00:00

Is this really something new? We are even a danger to ourselves. So is it also not fair to say because women are weaker that they would develop manipulative tactics to get what they want from men? If we can admit men are dangerous can we admit women are manipulative too?

the-4th-survivor · 2019-06-29T21:08:35+00:00

I was just reading that thread earlier this morning and I was actually surprised at the consensus that OP is the asshole. I figured the racial aspect of it would make people vote NTA but I guess not. It's odd though because a couple months ago I remember a manager asked if he was an asshole for firing a female employee because she refused to work the night shift by herself with a male employee. They said he wasn't the asshole for giving her the axe.

Anyway I personally have no problem with women taking precautions to avoid being hurt by men. Men are usually bigger and stronger and most violent criminals are men so it makes sense for women to be wary around us.

CosmicBioHazard · 2019-06-29T21:12:42+00:00

I’m halfway on this.

Now, if I’m honest I estimate easily that a woman is twice as likely, all else being equal, to try to attack me.

If she did, twig that I am, I’d be sixteen times more likely to successfully flip her over my shoulder.

i_am_the_prize5 · 2019-06-29T22:02:01+00:00

ITS NOT PERSONAL. Its about the potential men have to be dangerous, because most women if not all women have a wealth of experiences that tell this is what they have to do. How come no one is like "Wow. Men have must of done some really awful things to her. We should try to police the dangerous behavior of men more and support women so they can feel safe in public."

Anti_trans_feminist · 2019-06-29T22:04:48+00:00

How hard is it to take five seconds to ask - why do these women act this way? Men can be creepy. Woman deal with creepy guys all the time. Instead of getting mad at women for being suspicious of men how about men call out men, huh? Stop men from this behavior and women wouldn't have to keep themselves safe all the goddamn time.

korkyshadow · 2019-06-29T22:45:31+00:00

You are arguing they're "scary" and then expanding that to "dangerous". Almost every person that has ever died on your behalf has been a man. The people that make societies (which are for women and children) are men. Yes, men are "scary" and yes some men are "dangerous" but say all men are dangerous when WAY more protect you is ignorant and stupid.

Spicychickenaholic · 2019-06-30T03:44:55+00:00

Men are dangerous. More dangerous than women. Congratulations, you've realized something that has been unspoken common sense since the dawn of prehistory.

I-wanna-GO-FAST · 2019-06-30T08:04:53+00:00

Sure, they are. If you are really scared of them though, you'd carry a gun. If you don't, you are just pretending and looking to play the victim so other men can protect and console you or whatever.

Nobodykers · 2019-06-30T21:56:25+00:00

Yes men are dangerous. I fantasize about fighting other men, not women.

The_Legend_of_Jaelon · 2019-07-01T04:30:04+00:00

I’m looking at this thread and all that comes to mind is the “As a woman if I’m alone with a man I think I’m going to be possibly assaulted or raped.”

Then when it’s like “I’m afraid of being falsely accused of assault” people wanna act like you’re being crazy, but it’s literally the first thing people think you’re going to do as a male.

MisterJose · 2019-07-01T23:09:58+00:00

The fear center of your brain is an artifact left over from when our species needed it to survive. If the fear didn't override everything else, we would have gone extinct. Fear and anxiety disorders are a much bigger problem in modern society than any real mortal danger we might face.

Media capitalizes off of your fear. It gives you the idea that dangers and concerns are all around you, always, because then you keep watching and buy products.

Sure, there are some things that are legitimate dangers, but we worry and inhibit ourselves at a cost. Is it worth it to be deathly afraid of an auto accident your whole life, missing out on driving places, having fun car rides with friends, etc? I mean, that is a real thing: Odds are someone who commented in this thread has been or will be in a serious auto accident. So, were you terrified last time you were in a car? Would it have helped if you were?

Similarly, rape and sexual assault are real things. But what's it worth to you? Don't be stupid and careless in your actions, but also don't walk around afraid constantly. People who have excess fear of driving have a problem, and it's their problem, not the world's problem where we all have to change our behavior to make them more comfortable. Similarly, there must be a point where fear of rape or murder or the like is no longer rational, but your problem to deal with, and other people shouldn't be forced to change their behavior to make you more comfortable.

The actual rate at which men are dangerous is small. As someone who has a friend with a concealed carry permit, it never made sense to me that just because someone has a gun means they are about to go around shooting everyone. I might be stronger than you, but that doesn't mean I'm automatically going to use it to assault you. Plus, something as simple as a knife changes the equation and makes you way deadlier than me at that moment. Why aren't I scared of you?

PM_ME_CASH · 2019-06-28T23:57:50+00:00

Fragile femininity

WiseMonkeyGoodMonkey · 2019-06-29T00:46:15+00:00

Men have the capacity to be dangerous. As do women. And nail clippers. Anything/anyone can be dangerous given the correct situation and motivation. This seems needless imo.

Christian_Kong · 2019-06-29T00:50:13+00:00

I would say by in large men as a whole are not dangerous(at least in developed countries) both do to checks by law and personal morality. It's foolish to say otherwise.

With that said it only takes one bad incident for your life to change, so I don't really blame women that freak out over such situations.

[deleted] · 2019-06-29T00:52:19+00:00

Being scared of a man on a street is no more sexist than being scared of a black man on a street is racist

TheBookOfSeil · 2019-06-28T23:32:44+00:00

Technically, yes, men are dangerous, just like wild predatorial animals are dangerous. That would also mean, of course, that women are dangerous too. Men just don't fear women as much as women fear men because men have little reason to. The male side of human history is rich with violence, conquest and bloodshed. If a woman wants to throw hands, a man will indeed throw hands. If a man wants to throw hands, or in this case, if a woman perceives that a man wants to throw hands (or something similar), women are more keen on fleeing when the "fight or flight" mechanism kicks in. However, just because women are less inclined to fight back doesn't mean that they won't. Women are just as capable of being "dangerous" as men are. Any unknown person is a potential hazard to another. There are multitudes of stories where women lured unsuspecting men into situations that didn't turn out well for the men, whether they woke up in a bathtub full of ice with a pain in their side, or they were lured out to a rural spot to hang out and were instead robbed and beaten by the woman's accomplices.

Just to be clear, we're all covertly at war with each other. We just play the game differently.

So go ahead. Fear teh menz. We're big scary bois. Rawr.

blackedoutfast · 2019-06-29T00:12:00+00:00

shit i wish that was true but unfortunately wayyyyy too many men are weak ass pussies who don't even have the potential to be dangerous.

if you're trying to use a gotcha to make RP take a step back on AWALT thing, it's not gonna work. RP doesn't say AMALT doesn't exist, we just generally don't care about it. we're trying to figure out women, not men. like if you said all men are horny pervs who will make terrible decisions in the pursuit of pussy, yeah sure AMALT.

if women want to figure out what AMALT includes, go for it.

indaknffr · 2019-06-29T01:15:11+00:00

Sure, if it's two strangers alone in the middle of the night, there's a reason for caution whether it's men or women. The problem is that many women whine even in situations where there is little risk of danger, for example, in broad daylight, in public when there's other people around, in a bar etc. In that other PPD thread about Keanu Reeve's hover hand, some women, who are posting here as well, were saying Keanu shouldn't be allowed to touch these women because they would feel threatened due to him being a man, but if they want to touch him, it's fine. I mean, making physical contact when taking a picture with someone, when there are multiple witnesses around and photographic evidence, poses a danger to the woman? Really? There are even women who say they ghost men via text, because an honest but more respectful rejection, could lead to her feeling "threatened". So it's clear many women use the "men are stronger" excuse to justify their own bad behavior that they do to avoid discomfort. For OP, if you can acknowledge that a man talking to a woman in public during daytime poses no reasonable threat in a developed country, then we don't have much disagreement.

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2019-06-29T03:21:11+00:00

But women are nervous about men. In general. If we are alone in the dark with you... we will be on edge.

I would contrast women around men with weak men around stronger men. A weak man knows his place; he won't start a fight with stronger man.

But women's behavior around stronger men seems far different than that of a weak man. If women really were that worried about men, they'd mind their manners more and not try to goad or provoke. They'd keep their mouths shut more often and speak softly when they don't. You wouldn't find so many yelling, obnoxious, bitchy women who, if they were a man, would get their teeth knocked down their throat.

If women really believed that men were dangerous, you wouldn't know it from their behavior.

Spurius85 · 2019-06-29T00:56:26+00:00

If AWALT means that all women contain within themselves the potential to branch swing once a given man no longer meets her needs, then I would argue that AMALT means that all men contain within themselves the potential to use violence and force against women to get what they want. Men are dangerous. Totally unknown men are totally unknown quantities, and are therefore potentially the most dangerous of all.

Men are dangerous. CMV.

For all this talk about men being dangerous, women as a whole sure don't act like it.

The allegation that 1 in 5 women will be sexually harassed (raped) in college, yet women make up the majority attending college, don't they realize they have a super high chance of being made a plaything for these dangerous men?

Women sure get pissed off when they are told to take precautions with how they dress and their drinking habits when they go to parties and clubs, I mean aren't there dangerous, intoxicated men there that would have their way with them?

Women are more likely to initiate physical violence with men with the absolute expectation that he will not retaliate, don't they understand that they could unleash a beast? I mean they could die, what with all his upper body strength.

By golly aren't most women perfectly okay with illegal immigrants coming across our borders? Or "refugees" from war torn countries crossing into mainland Europe? Don't they know they are mostly men!?

I mean, by God, it's not like society is so safe for women that there are literally entire organizations dedicated to figuring out fake shit for women to be afraid of, or angry about. Like mansplaining, manspreading, air conditioning, the wage gap, the glass ceiling, the patriarchy.

Your CMV is flawed. It's either "Men are Dangerous!" or "Men are Potentially Dangerous." You can't have it both ways. You've gotta know that society would be very, very different if men were actually dangerous.

Yeah, I would have to concede completely that men have the potential to be dangerous, but:

It's almost like society has been built in such a way that that this is not actually a problem. It's like we have this system where men put on uniforms and protect those of us that are weak and other men put on uniforms and enforce the laws that protect those of us that are innocent. But these dudes are the super dangerous ones right? We should totally protest that these men exist.

But surely, surely, society has the same safeguards for men for women's potential AWALT behavior right? I mean, women don't have completely free rein to ruin men's lives with things like: false rape allegations, false domestic violence allegations, divorce rape, lying about paternity, withholding of his children, parental alienation, branch swinging, and so on.

Right?

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Title	CMV: Men Are Dangerous
Author	CreightonWAbrams
Upvotes	48
Comments	434
Date	June 28, 2019 11:03 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/c6r540/cmv_men_are_dangerous/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-men-are-dangerous.299017 https://theredarchive.com/post/299017

Comments

The thing is... where is the cut?

So what?

How then avoiding "AWALT" and avoiding "Men" is different?