I don’t get mad at woman for their nature. Men should understand the rules of the game and play to win.

cvslengthbucketlist · 2021-09-13T20:43:49+00:00

So we have to work hard to be her best option. Women won’t even look at other men if you are that dude.

It's impossible to be someone's objectively best option among the countless people they will meet in their lifetime, and it's unproductive and self-destructive to think that way. You just have to make sure you're the best that you can reasonably be: as in, at least as good as you were the day they met you, and preferably constantly improving and becoming better than that.

Also I'm not sure what you mean by "rules of the game," but I wouldn't want to be with someone who is constantly scanning around for a better option beyond the person that they're already enthusiastic about, connect with, and who already meets the vast majority of their physical and non-physical requirements.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-09-13T20:12:43+00:00

Playing to win involves doing a whole range of things, including things considered unethical.

That being said, we have people on both sides who play by the rules and who choose to do unethical things, yet both sides get upset when they get played/lose/don't win.

If one side is bound to the rules, then the other is too, and if the other isn't bound to the rules, neither is the former.

The only rule is that there are no rules (or are there?)

_Oh_Be_Nice_ · 2021-09-13T20:27:31+00:00

High-value people are rare and tend to want LTRs with only other high-value people.

Get good, settle, cope, or check out (M/WGTOW, not suicide).

Those are the choices.

her_958_resistors · 2021-09-13T20:25:26+00:00

For almost all men, the only winning move is to not play.

poluza112 · 2021-09-13T20:46:05+00:00

As an introvert, I am coming to terms with it. I don't think you should be angry at women for their nature but the idiots (men and women) that try to mislead you about what women are like and put them on a pedestal deserve you bile.

Novadina · 2021-09-13T20:38:38+00:00

We can’t trust that if we decide one day to just not do anything that we can trust our woman will stick with us.

I don’t see why men should let women do that, either? Men shouldn’t let women just take advantage of them.

We can’t trust that if a better option comes along she won’t leave.

Women can’t trust that wouldn’t happen either, I know plenty of older women whose husbands left them for someone younger, and this is common enough I would be skeptical you haven’t seen it yourself.

harold_shipman_gp · 2021-09-13T21:04:32+00:00

I know that if someone broke in to my house looking to kill me, my cat would not protect me - she would run and hide. Because she's a cat; not a guard dog.

Despite this, I love her with all my heart, and I would take a bullet for her. She's just a little cat. It's in her nature to be frightened. I accept nature as it is, and I am more at peace for it.

cosmincrs · 2021-09-13T20:14:31+00:00

At some point the results are not worth the effort. Some dudes may require at least a decade of effort to become a HVM but still it doesn't guarantee that you will get a HVW. The chances are stacked against men. Personally, if I put several years of effort into my looks/career/personality I'd want my HVW and nothing else.

Speaker7 · 2021-09-13T20:59:44+00:00

Eh, people are free to feel as they do. It doesn't have to be rational or fair. Men that stay mad at "female nature" are just hurting themselves. Nature doesn't care, so neither should you. What I do think men are completely valid in being angry about is being misled either through ignorance or outright deception for the vast majority of their upbringing about "how women are" and seeing how incorrect it was. Women reinforce their "goodly nature" as if it's an internalized global marketing campaign that's strictly defended and many men are none the wiser.

Makes sense:

Being angry at others trying to deceive you for their own selfish game.

Doesn't Make sense: Being forever angry at the arbitrary state of nature and the human condition.

As for "Understanding the rules of the game and play to win": Not every man sees life as a game to be won. Most people cannot shake off their upbringing and become whole new people as adults, not without serious change. Also, there's the reward factor. Is the risk worth the reward? If there was no risk, is the juice even worth the squeeze? To each his or her own.

Playful_Dig8694 · 2021-09-14T19:07:11+00:00

This applies to humans generally. Just had a convo with an autistic coworker about this. People are unfair, cruel, selfish, make snap judgements and dislike individuals who are different or weird.

He’s a smart hardworking dude but because he has low eiq and mannerisms are a bit off, everyone but me found a reason to hate him. He doesnt know how to “play the game” so the other rats in the race despise him… because that’s ALL they know how to do.

Its not even women. Life in general is a rigged game. Politics, jerking each other off emotionally and tribalism trump honesty, ethics and hard work every time.

If i was on the losing end of all this shit i’d be pretty bitter too. Fortunately im a social chameleon. I can make it in this primate hindbrain driven, social butterfly favored world. If i couldnt though. I would gather a bunch of books, guns and survival guides and shit and just go live in the woods

Take the hermit pill

Perseus_the_Bold · 2021-09-15T01:00:17+00:00

In a game that is rigged against you it is best not to play the game. Any game where it is not possible to win the only non-losing move you can possibly take is to not make a move at all, just get up and walk away.

HOLYREGIME · 2021-09-13T21:28:12+00:00

I don’t get mad at woman for their nature

This is different, but remember when people use to say “boys will be boys” as an excuse for their poor behavior? Today that doesn’t fly anymore. Women had enough and require men to be held accountable for their actions.

Saying things like “woman’s nature” has a similar connotation and it gives them a pass to act as malicious as possible as long as it’s in their self interest. I see women do awful things like trap men but the guy should have known better because “it’s in women’s nature”.

The RPs improvement narrative is nothing but men trying to get ahead in a losing game. Women’s hypergamy is out of control and it’s a race to become the top 20%. Why can’t a 5 guy get access to women? Shouldn’t there also be plenty of 5 women wandering the earth? Where are they?

Bandit174 · 2021-09-13T20:45:49+00:00

I agree with the other dude, at some point the effort just isn't worth it.

So we have to work hard to be her best option.

I really don't get that. Are people just overly confident and delude themselves into believing they are really the best option? I look at it like this:

Most guys are average or worse in most attributes.
Women have more leverage and men tend to have lower standards especially for for sex so most women have had sex with or casually dated men who were above average in some combination of height, facial aesthetics, physique and dick size.
Therefore most men have incredibly thin odds of ever being a woman's best option in any of those categories.

NewWayNow · 2021-09-13T21:48:58+00:00

Pretty much right. Keep in mind that women are the way they are for a reason. History and pre-history were not kind to them; they needed a constant supply of resources and protection so that they and their children could survive. As a woman, if your man showed signs of weakness, that weakness could quickly prove fatal to yourself and your offspring.

One caveat: None of this means that women of today consistently choose the best or strongest man, or that any group of women ever did. In many cases her "picker" is severely defective. You can be "her best option" and she may still leave you. There is not objectively a "best option." Evolution throws a little of everything at the wall and some sticks and some doesn't.

bison5595 · 2021-09-13T23:06:09+00:00

I agree. I’m not mad women at women’s. I wish I wasn’t lied to growing up and wasting time doing shit that didn’t work.

John_Oakman · 2021-09-13T20:16:38+00:00

The winning conditions are behind a paywall that most LVMs will never be able to afford.

JohnnyMnemo · 2021-09-13T21:06:55+00:00

Or just MGTOW and opt out if you don't think it's worth the effort.

AtomicMGTOW · 2021-09-14T02:04:55+00:00

When were young someone needs to explain it to us that used to be our fathers. In the early '70s women started removing men from the home and since most of our teachers throughout our school years are females and we don't really talk about things like this anyway because they push the idea that every single person is some special Snowflake and we're all just so completely different that there are no general rules about male or female nature.

The idea that men "should" understand the rules seems to imply that we our responsible for figuring this out on our own. And perhaps that could happen earlier for us if we weren't told all about the special snowflake stuff. It took me to 40 to really search for answers and actually be able to find them thanks to the internet. Now I understand female nature in all its Glory. And they still deny it using the nawalt argument. Deny deflect diminish distract and finally damsel. These are the five deflections of the narcissistic female who's losing an argument and believe she's a snowflake. Unfortunately for men we have also been told to listen to a woman's words instead of paying attention to her actions.

Now that I see it I would love to start a class in school and be the teacher to the boys that explains female nature. But that would never happen. The feminist liberal arts English teacher down the hall would literally have an aneurysm. The human rights tribunal would show up and the authorities would drag me off in a straight jacket to the Looney bin. The men that truly understand female nature earlier on are the guys that are getting all the sex for basically free. I had to work pretty hard for most of the sex I had in my life.

xFallacyx69 · 2021-09-14T11:44:46+00:00

Nobody is mad at women for their “nature”, they’re mad that society coddles them and tells them it’s not their fault they are single when they lack the introspection and empathy to form a mutual connection after years of coddling (and male thirst) artificially inflated their prospective relationship candidates.

Basically, men are upset that women say “we have sex with who we want, men have sex with who they CAN” in a jabbing manner but forget that being in a soft harem doesn’t mean you can lock in commitment… so when guys call girls cum dumpsters for doing just that it’s “oh you took it too far you’re an asshole”

Basically, the double standard is clear and male thirst is just as much to blame as female “nature” (Or lack of introspection)

colbyfan · 2021-09-13T20:30:27+00:00

Man I cannot relate to that. I know that if I am dating a woman I could be jobless and she would take care of me because thats the only kind of woman I will make my girlfriend.

Insidious-Sid · 2021-09-13T20:26:44+00:00

So we have to work hard to be her best option. Women won’t even look at other men if you are that dude.

You don't need to be her best option.

You just other options as good or better looking than she is.

And ensure she knows you could have someone else in your bed by Wednesday.

PollaTronante · 2021-09-13T20:21:21+00:00

I said this in exredpill, and I'll say it here:

"99% of what Red-Pillers claim is female nature is literally just projections of themselves. Solipsism is one of their big projections, because they're incapable of considering anyone else's point of view but their own. Another is hypergamy, because they're obsessed with dating only the highest quality women and will claim that no women truly meet their standards. Others include immorality, irrationality, immaturity, zero accountability, zero empathy, narcissism, sociopathy, vanity, inauthenticity, Machiavellianism, promiscuity, cruelty, selfishness, manipulation, self-victimization, sexism, double standards, compulsive lying, deceitfulness, cheating, abusive behavior, greed, branch-swinging, blame-shifting, entitlement... actually, I can't think of a single bad thing they say about female nature that isn't projection of themselves."

You don't have to pretend not to be mad at a group of people who displays all those awful traits (I would be upset, too), but you do need to consider about whether that group of people actually has those traits in the first place.

xQueen-Bx · 2021-09-13T21:23:45+00:00

you mean "so men should do TRP", gotcha

M_LaSalle · 2021-09-13T21:44:56+00:00

And the plight of a man is we must win.

The plight of a man is that he must choose, and live with his choices.

or to quote the late Major Kendra Shaw from Battlestar Galactica, before she went out in a nuclear fireball, "You make your choices, and then you live with 'em. And in the end, you are those choices."

We can’t really be SAHD and be seen as valuable or attractive. We can’t trust that if we decide one day to just not do anything that we can trust our woman will stick with us. We can’t trust that if a better option comes along she won’t leave. But that is life.

I have never aspired to be SAHD. The real problem is that a man who breaks his back striving may still be abandoned and divorce raped. The guys who are cognizant of this and MIGTow are not obviously wrong. (Or right) You really do have to ask yourself what's the worst that can happen before you buy that stock, or put your money down on Black or marry that woman. There can never be a guarantee of success, life is unfair. But the odds of success these days have become a disincentive for too many men not to try.

So OP's advice is not wrong on it's face, but also not operationally useful.

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-09-13T22:19:03+00:00

So we have to work hard to be her best option.

That's the only part where I disagree, you build yourself up to be the man of your own dreams, not hers, as much as many of us enjoy women they shouldn't be near the top of your priority list

No-Koala5505 · 2021-09-13T23:04:20+00:00

Why can’t you be a SAHD? I know plenty of SAHD

Cataclysma324 · 2021-09-14T01:47:24+00:00

This is why the tenets of marriage are not only completely hinged on it but are intrinsic in the pragmatics of the concept itself. Put in good-speak, we know logically that no one person is the best, that there are close seconds or betters. This is a problem that men have to face too, and perhaps even more so because we might desire novelty (in some capacity).

Marriage is basically dead on a societal level, and it can suck for the romantics among us. We no longer even have the social (never mind legal) and with contraception REAL need for it. Some are fine with it and just become whatever, hookups or swingers. Then the group in the middle are the serial monogamists, and maybe the more commitment oriented.

It takes way WAY more vetting of a potential lifelong partner, you simply can't just be compatible on a surface level like "you guys get along well and have things in common."

I just went on a rant about marriage and I probably don't even want to partake in that.

imagineStark · 2021-09-13T22:39:01+00:00

How will she know you are her best option if she does not look at other men? How is it the saying goes... No matter how perfect you think someone is, there's someone out there who's tired of fucking them

heyitsjeape · 2021-09-13T23:13:27+00:00

This sounds like more bang-your-head-harder-against-the-wall propaganda.

Robotemist · 2021-09-13T23:14:03+00:00

That's literally the goal of TRP.

hi_and_fuck_you · 2021-09-13T23:26:14+00:00

You're describing a woman without a sense of allegiance. Such women are completely worthless outside of their holes.

pubgmisc · 2021-09-13T23:31:21+00:00

Goes both ways

MonstarKody · 2021-09-14T03:18:06+00:00

You are like an animal, just following your natural instincts, with nothing greater to aspire to. Just playing the game your biology tells you to. Even if it admittedly makes your existence harder and more stressful.

toxicboy4lyf · 2021-09-14T04:36:33+00:00

Thats why i like to have more than 1 woman at a time. Even if 1 goes i still have others 😆.

goochiegg · 2021-09-14T04:57:05+00:00

Honestly dudes should just stop worrying about women. If you tried time after time and they still don't want you then just give up on that stuff and focus on other things

Pastelitomaracucho · 2021-09-14T05:57:11+00:00

I love playing the game

Nihi1986 · 2021-09-14T07:56:35+00:00

Good for you. Depression and health issues are limiting me a bit to be competing with literally everyone else on a daily basis, guess I'm lucky for at least getting some women.

Personally, I sometimes get a bit mad but not just at women's nature, also men and myself. Oh and society in general.

michael1962-01 · 2021-09-14T08:31:22+00:00

Solipsism. Awalt. Hamstering.

And much more.

But you can learn to use their ways.

Mark_Freed · 2021-09-14T10:32:19+00:00

A few decades ago women could have sat back and said "men won't ever change, they will never find a working women/athletic women attractive". A lot of women did not do that, they set out and actually changed the rules of the game.

Culture is in our hands, we can choose how the next generation is socialized. What type of media we make. We can decide what rules we are willing to play by in the long run. Right now we need to play by the current rules but our kids can play by better rules.

Stay at home dads can become sexy and attractive. Not to all women, maybe not even most, but enough. There are guys out there who love the fact that their wife is earning money and there are guys who like the traditional stay-at-home wife. What is attractive is not purely biologically determined.

Saitama1993 · 2021-09-14T11:23:23+00:00

Isn't this what basically the red pill is saying?

gimpgirl555 · 2021-09-14T11:26:30+00:00

So we have to work hard to be her best option. Women won’t even look at other men if you are that dude. It is hard and it is stressful. But it is your path if want sexual access. Or love.

Say what now? "Sexual success" is a waste of time. And love? Dude please.

Friendly reminder that Brad Pitt got left and put on child support. "Just be the best man in the world" theory.

The harder you try - the harder you get played.

velvetunderground111 · 2021-09-14T13:36:03+00:00

My last sponsor in A.A. is a SAHD and his wife is a medical doctor. From what he has said, she is also hot, too. He's sober, but just stays at home with the kids all day. Tall but not "great" looking guy, mid-40's. Kind of a doofus. I have no idea how he pulls this off, unless she just really likes having a baby sitter. She stayed with him through active drinking and DUI's, too. I think he briefly worked as a teacher, but hated it.

I have no idea how these guys pull this stunt off, but I wouldn't want to be in that precarious of a situation. Wife can't possibly take you seriously and can leave at any time.

dres_sler · 2021-09-13T22:32:36+00:00

Ya you’re right.

Women can’t be mad when a man leaves them for a younger, hotter version of themselves. It’s just their nature!

Trapped_in_RedditFan · 2021-09-13T23:22:48+00:00

I don't respect what women find attractive. A hot guy that looks pretty with average IQ will have more sexual success than an average looking guy with high IQ. In fact, high IQ has been proven to be a detriment to sexual success. Imagine how much better our society would be if women were sapiosexual(a person who finds intelligence sexually attractive or arousing.) Our society is complex and needs a lot of high IQ people to run it and to progress. Women's sexual selection for physical attractiveness above all else is outdated and obsolete.

A high IQ person usually has the ability to make a lot of money from doing complex jobs which supports a lifestyle that women would want but women don't actually get turned on by that, they lust after guys that look hot and that's it. By the way, don't bother arguing with me about the validity of IQ and how it's genetic, the science has been done. IQ is real and IQ is largely hereditary(nutrition and epigenetics also play a role).

Also, before anyone calls me an incel, I've had sex before and women like my personality in person.

angels-fan · 2021-09-13T22:16:49+00:00

I'm more mad at men for simping our rights away to women under the guise of equality.

LMM-GT02 · 2021-09-13T20:44:12+00:00

All is fair in love and war. Dudes are fighting like insurgents.

Wetcat9 · 2021-09-13T22:14:18+00:00

Lol...will smith got cheated on...but yeah keep self improving

_smoothdolphin_ · 2021-09-13T23:12:18+00:00

i do not understand this viewpoint. i am a woman going to college, earning a degree, and i will have a job. i want to provide for my family. i would hope my future husband also has a job and can provide for the family. being a stay-at-home-mom is not my dream. i want to be a provider as well as a mother. i barely see any women in real life who have the viewpoint you stated. am i being naive or are you just jaded?

gopherish · 2021-09-13T21:39:17+00:00

Don’t hate the player, but you can hate the game. The rules have changed in a way that now disadvantages men, and that’s unfair.

Monogamy—true monogamy, without contraception or divorce—was a compromise between the sexes to enable successful, long-term relationships. Most people got a mate, had children, had a home, had a place in their community, and could rely on those things being stable.

No more. Sad.

Vallonen · 2021-09-13T21:37:22+00:00

I don’t get mad at woman for their nature. Men should understand the rules of the game and play to win.

As men we always understood female nature, but understanding women as such is not possible for the simple reason that they don't understand themselves, therefore they are unknowable.

Best course of action for a man is to act in accordance to female nature and not focus on trying to understand them per se, because that's a fools errand.

The vast majority (around 80%) of psychologists are women, the reason they sought out the profession to begin with was a cry for help. They are trying to understand themselves.

Once a man accepts the fact that women "love" us for what we can do for them, and that what we can do for them is directly tied to her own survival, the man will be on the path of healthier relationships with the opposite sex and the female company that he keeps.

And do not forget gentlemen, to always trust a woman to act like a woman.

poppy_blu · 2021-09-13T21:41:50+00:00

We can’t really be SAHD and be seen as valuable or attractive.

You can. But you have to marry the kind of woman who wants that. And there is zero overlap between the kind of woman who wants that and the kind of women the average manospherian wants.

We can’t trust that if we decide one day to just not do anything that we can trust our woman will stick with us.

Not sure how this is different for women. Men aren’t chained to us either.

We can’t trust that if a better option comes along she won’t leave.

Ditto.

Women won’t even look at other men if you are that dude.

LOL, no. For the love of god you guys need to stop interpreting hypergamy this way. It is NOT literally my man is 6 feet but I’ll dump him if a 6’1” man walks by.

Have you guys ever considered that the way you process the world around you might hold some clues as to why you struggle with women?

You forgot the most important thing. Be your own man and quit begging for women to validate you. Shift that shit around. She’s not the prize you are.

I realize I’m talking to a brick wall here.

Snoo_16536 · 2021-09-13T20:38:17+00:00

This! i made peace with this 5 months after taking the RedPill.

I had no other reasonable option, i was in a very dark place at the time.

I focused on playing the game, now the game has become second nature to me.

svenshapiro · 2021-09-13T21:20:21+00:00

Wrong.

A person who has their things in order and is appealing to be with can easily have a functioning relationship, even if they aren't a high-value person. This is true regardless of gender.

I could easily get myself a Stay-at-home-dad-arrangement if I wanted to. Decent women are literally everywhere, and the types of lives that women are drawn to varies wildly.

The one constant that I've found is that most women want a reliable, loving and caring other half, but beyond that it's easy to have all sorts of arrangements depending on the woman's personality type.

Again, super easy to do. Nothing is stopping a normal person from achieving this.

SaBahRub · 2021-09-13T22:08:39+00:00

You act like relationships are voluntary for women and mandatory for men. I assure you it is not so

YoMamaz_azz · 2021-09-13T23:29:46+00:00

Yeah I accept that. I do what I gotta do to get what I want and I dont care if I hurt other people in the process. Doesnt make sense to "play fair" in a rigged game.

Dagenius1 · 2021-09-13T23:49:15+00:00

In a very general, super simplified way to look at this and what it should mean for men at large in this topic..

I agree that men shouldn’t really complain about anything. Period. We just can’t, guys. We just have to get tough, get better and get on with doing/being our best. Men should not complain about the “advantages” women have in terms of dating, relationships etc. Just do and be your best..learn from your mistakes, don’t be a fool or a doormat and be all the man you can be. Trust that it will be enough for you to live an amazing life.

Jonesw16 · 2021-09-13T20:13:16+00:00

That's the right way to view it, don't hate the player or the game, be aware of it and adapt to it instead.

JameisBong · 2021-09-14T00:12:00+00:00

Agreed. But men need to be taught early to embrace female/male nature. In today's society men are raised to suppress what they naturally feel and instead become soy and beta.

Snoo_16536 · 2021-09-13T20:42:33+00:00

[permanently deleted]

TryLambda · 2021-09-14T00:12:54+00:00

are you high?? it does not matter if you work hard or become the best option in your eyes, because in her eyes there are always better options, that is the true nature of hypergamy and by your logic out of the 7 billion people on the planet, 3.5B being men, you are proposing to the be top o.oooo1 percent of them, good luck buddy, you'll have more chance of getting hit my as asteroid than get to that level.

Naus1987 · 2021-09-14T01:41:18+00:00

The average person does what average people do. If you want to marry an average person then learn the rules of average people, and play that game.

But if you want to marry a unicorn — you have to become a unicorn. Unicorns date other unicorns.

Those who transcend their nature, and break statistical averages aren’t likely to settle for mediocrity when they themselves are beyond it.

I’ll always feel bad for the average folks and their 50% divorce rate. It just sucks to be average. Gotta rise above it.

AutoModerator · 2021-09-13T19:54:48+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

palescope · 2021-09-14T00:32:29+00:00

If TRP is right female love isn’t real. Or at least it’s a shallow and self-interested form of “love”.

decoy88 · 2021-09-14T00:58:28+00:00

If you are depressed you should seek professional help. Not relationships.

CommonPrimary9817 · 2021-09-14T08:45:49+00:00

Then women should understand that all men can behave differently and it depends on nature. For example, violence. We still do not live in the Stone Age so I think we should behave better

Delifier · 2021-09-14T10:49:00+00:00

Women opting out of relationships isnt the big issue here. The big issue is that they have no incentive to have it any other way and actually working through issues. If there is marriage, kids and a house/other financial stuff, the men usually get screwed. How the actual law is, differ from one jurisdiction to another, some may be quite equal in the letter, some outright favor women over the man. But even in cases where the law is equal, the court rulings over matters is straight up in womens cases. It usually highly gynocentric.

Holler4Heller · 2021-09-15T02:40:59+00:00

There needs to be a reason to win and if sex or kids aren’t enough motivation there just isn’t

mostlyawesume · 2021-09-14T02:58:00+00:00

I agree with the woman wont look another way if you make yourself the best option! Put in a little work and there are rewards!

wtknight · 2021-09-14T10:27:02+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	I don’t get mad at woman for their nature. Men should understand the rules of the game and play to win.
Author	Zofious
Upvotes	95
Comments	403
Date	September 13, 2021 7:54 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/pnn12p/i_dont_get_mad_at_woman_for_their_nature_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/i-dont-get-mad-at-woman-for-their-nature-men.1070595 https://theredarchive.com/post/1070595

Comments