Women should take seriously the question if they want to have children or not early in life and stick to it to avoid suffering.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-03-15T15:40:23+00:00

You forget that most just aren't ready at very young ages. Even if they're an unrealistic amount of mature they're going to screw themselves over without a stable relationship and enough money to raise them which they're unlikely to have until they're older. They'd probably rather have no children than become a parent at that time. Everyone who wants children should have a backup plan (such as adoption) if conception is hard. And yes, whether you conceive in less-than-totally-ideal circumstances is entirely your choice, or else we start getting into eugenics (saying that people with certain disabilities shouldn't reproduce for example).

Soon-to-be-Catlady · 2023-03-15T14:45:01+00:00

Why should they not stay open to the possibility, as long as they are okay with the fact that it's less likely to work? If you think your life is pointless without children, yeah you might want to get on it a little earlier. But that easily leads to desperate women having children with some deadbeats and end up in poverty if they have no career. If children are not necessary for your happiness, you can wait as long as you want. The tragic IVF cases are much more in focus than the many couples that just go on live their life.

crookedsummer2019 · 2023-03-15T15:31:13+00:00

You answered your own question. Women are the ones who bear the brunt of pregnancy and child rearing.

So it’s not a decision to make lightly. Also, most young men (you know, the men young women usually date) are not interested in being fathers in their 20’s so there’s that. Those men won’t be sold on some pitch that they should be fathers because the woman should have kids now rafter than later.

Also, Autism and other developmental issues are also associated with advanced paternal age.

I agree that women have a more limited amount of time to start a family, and the longer she waits the more likely she will face fertility issues. But this is a choice some women make, knowing that there may be challenges, and knowing they probably were no where near ready to start a family at 25, like many people aren’t. So they choose a later age and deal with it. To them, that may be a better option than starting young and regretting it.

anon018274031 · 2023-03-15T14:50:14+00:00

This is a post clearly written by someone with either very extreme privilege or very little exposure to pregnancy/birth/child rearing/relationships and the economy.

TermAggravating8043 · 2023-03-15T14:50:22+00:00

You seem to be forgetting that as much as these women want a baby, they also need a stable valuable income, a house/stable place to live and ideally a partner to help you raise these kids. Most people don’t have all these things until they are in their late 30’s

LeaveNCountAlone · 2023-03-15T19:21:08+00:00

I see this as nothing but a catch 22 men make for women.

You say a women is most valuable when she’s young, but unless this woman was born with a silver spoon and achieves the sort of financial stability she would need to NOT have to pursue a career to support herself and her family,she would need to depend on the man for stability- which you all shame women for doing. Further more the majority of young men don’t want children OR to date a woman with a child, so there’s no guarantee he won’t abandon her. And you all like to dunk on single mothers like it a fate worse than death.

On the hand… if a woman does take her time to establish her finances, build a home, seek out a suitable partner, live life and grow from her experiences before having kids… you shame her for “wasting her best years.”

All while guys can run around like preverbal man children without a care for whatever reason we’re rolling with today. There’s no winning with you lot.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-03-15T18:36:56+00:00

Bold of you to assume these women just didn’t seriously think about it. Many people are not in a financial place to have children in their 20s. This is only getting worse due to economic conditions. Women also can change and decide they want kids later in life just like men can, believe it or not.

Men here constantly act like women are fully mature adults at 16 and just want to hold off on marriage and kids to spite them or something. No, most people are not mentally, emotionally, or financially ready for kids until 25+. The people getting pregnant in their early 20s and younger are generally the ones who don’t seriously think it through, the women become the single moms men here love to hate, and the government ends up having to pay for the kids.

bluestjuice · 2023-03-15T14:42:51+00:00

I think that if you were really as sympathetic about the travails of infertility and IVF as you have tried to sound, you would be less inclined to talk about them as a thing women ‘bring on themselves’ by ‘waiting too long.’

ETA: Life is suffering, to an extent. I had my first baby at 24 and she died in my arms. I then struggled with infertility in my late 20s and early 30s. All of that sucked, but it wasn’t inherently preventable and to think so is a sort of magical thinking.

The idea protects the feeling of the person espousing it, who imagines that as long as they do all the ‘right’ things they will be spared pain. Along the way it is casually cruel to people who have suffered because it casts them as not only unlucky but actually complicit in their own suffering. It robs them of compassion from bystanders in the very circumstances when they need it most.

CommunicationNo9896 · 2023-03-15T15:59:59+00:00

One of the biggest factors of having children is having a good partner. I’d much prefer women wait until they are married and in a strong relationship than rush into it at a young age

MrsKetchup · 2023-03-15T15:09:55+00:00

It's weird you assume women DON'T take this seriously. Because they do, much more than yourself. Unfortunately society isn't structured towards making family raising easy despite being desperate for us to keep spewing out worker drones.

And how easy do you think it is to just hold off a career and casually start in your 30s? That's a good way to be passed up for every worthwhile opportunity and have 0 retirement or life plan.

I probably could have had a kid in my mid-late 20s, but our quality of life would have been worse and my career would have halted in a time it was growing the most. Careers are important; we're not gathering berries out in the field anymore, this is how we provide shelter and sustenance.

Having a quality of life is much better than quantity, so this focus on "more babies early in life" is weird

onirroc · 2023-03-15T13:48:10+00:00

Kids are expensive and not everyone can afford to be a parent fresh out of high-school. Lots of people that age aren't mature enough to do a good job raising them either.

I think late 20s is a pretty ideal time to be honest.

somehaizi · 2023-03-15T14:03:38+00:00

Raising a kid with little to no money is a very risky gamble.

Feisty-Saturn · 2023-03-15T14:05:47+00:00

I don’t understand how someone can take this question seriously at a young age or even why they would.

I’m 26 and if you asked me 3 years ago if I wanted to be a mother it would be an enthusiastic yes. Now I would say I’m leaning towards a no, maybe I’m at a 30 percent yes.

Your perspective changes given your circumstances and growth.

nemma88 · 2023-03-15T14:14:24+00:00

Women should take seriously the question if they want to have children or not early in life and stick to it to avoid suffering.

They do consider it. Its very common for women not to want children earlier in life (or just be 'maybe', where no is then the default) . If women always stuck to it we'd have a much lower birthrate.

Women who are sure at that age go and get it.

Edit; A better solution, Women do not want to held at ransom or dependent resource wise, and that is reasonable for anyone. Its the economic system and lack of independence in this role that is the problem.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2023-03-15T14:37:01+00:00

I had my first at 20 my last at 36. Having a baby before you are ready is never a good thing.

I have seen too many women and children miserable because they were not ready.

If a woman then can not have a baby later then she has to live with that.

LadyofTheGreyPath · 2023-03-15T17:00:48+00:00

I've taken it so seriously I'm planning to have both a bi-salp and ablation done, I lack maternal instincts and have a shoddy reproductive system, so I guess my body and mind are in sync.

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-03-15T13:46:05+00:00

I’m all for women having children when they are ready and willing, and not a second before. And since it is their body and if necessary, their money, I support their choices.

lefactorybebe · 2023-03-15T19:39:52+00:00

It seems like there's some selection bias going on here. You're looking at infertility subs, of course you're going to see lots of things about women having trouble conceiving.

You won't hear anything about women in their 30s+ having no trouble, obviously. While it's more likely to run into issues as you get older, it's certainly not a given. My mom had me at 32 and my sister at 35, no issues. My paternal great grandmother accidentally got pregnant in her 40s, they never intended on kids. My bfs mom accidentally got pregnant with him at 43. My friend has a brother ten years younger than her because the doctor told her mom she couldn't get pregnant anymore-that was incorrect.

This is not an exhaustive list of people I know who got pregnant easily at older ages.

So I think you're starting from a wonky premise. Women know that it can be harder as you get older, but it's not like that's a certainty for everyone. They obviously found that the risks of having a kid before they were ready was bigger than the potential risk of having trouble getting or being pregnant.

Gravel_Roads · 2023-03-15T13:59:00+00:00

What is with people on this sub and thinking people should never be allowed to change their minds? Things change, bro. People base their decisions on their circumstances, and when circumstances change it's unnatural not to also change one's standards with them.

And why is it just "women"? Why aren't men held to the same family-planning standard?

ashpr0ulx · 2023-03-15T14:39:01+00:00

infertility isn’t a strictly female and age related problem. men struggle with infertility, as do much younger women.

avoiding suffering isn’t something we have absolute control over. sure, plan to have kids in a time frame that biologically makes sense, but it’s no guarantee whatsoever.

good friend of mine probably would have had children in a more ideal time frame, except she spent her 20s battling cancer because sometimes life chooses the suffering for you. she froze her eggs and created embryos before treatment. she and her husband welcomed miracle baby girl about a year ago. she was prepared that it might not work.

this is life. we do what we can with what we have, and sometimes, no matter what we do, there is suffering between the moments of joy.

cult_angel · 2023-03-15T19:50:31+00:00

I’d love to have kids but if I were to get pregnant right now, it would ruin my life. Women NEED to work nowadays, it’s not just an option. There’s always that image of the provider father who had to focus on his career in order to take care of his family at the expense of time spent with them, and now we are in a stage of the economy where it is vital for the women to take this path as well. We cannot afford to have kids until our careers are more developed and fruitful and it usually takes time to become financially stable enough to take care of ourselves let alone a child, and I would rather forego having kids than potentially put my child through the traumatizing poverty I grew up in. Women aren’t choosing not to have kids or have kids later in life because they are just feminist girl boss qweens, it is a direct reflection of our economy and society. The average age where people accomplish certain milestones in general is becoming older and older, like moving out or having a serious relationship, etc.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-03-15T21:49:32+00:00

If the woman is with it enough to use birth control so she doesn't get pregnant 10+ years into adulthood, I think you can expect that she understands basic, reproductive biology.

Some of you dudes are ridiculous with how you just assume you are just magically more informed and intelligent than women and condescendingly demonstrate this by regurgitating the most obvious, basic facts that even literal children know (either that or you even get the facts wrong or exaggerate them).

Women know, they weigh out the pros and cons relative to their lives and make their own choices that may fluctuate through the years and through circumstances but they ultimately make an adult decision that they go on to live with like any other adult out there does. It's not that deep.

blueshinx · 2023-03-15T15:22:30+00:00

I can’t be a mother if I don’t fucking have the money for it. There is no guarantee that a man won’t leave you.

Having children is very important to me. Which is exactly why I need to have a successful career of my own to be able to take care of my children.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-03-15T17:33:54+00:00

I'm a woman in my early 30's who was very much against the idea of having kids. Part of that was not liking kids (turns out kids are fine, it's the parents and their failures to actually parent that I can't stand), part of it was not wanting to have a child unless I found someone who would be an equal partner. The idea of working full-time and being the person who takes on the brunt of household management and childcare sounded awful then and it still sounds awful now. Luckily for me, I've found a person that I'd love to have a child with. However, circumstances don't allow us to have a kid at this moment, so maybe in a few years. If it works out, it works out, having a child is not the end-all-be-all for us and we're open to the idea of adoption if we can't have a kid the usual way.

Women do give this plenty of thought. Kids are expensive and a lot of people want to be financially secure before they can bring a child into this world. People also want to experience the world for themselves before they settle down and have the responsibility of parenthood. Everything in life is a trade-off and sometimes people regret the choices they made or didn't make, that's part of life. I don't think anyone has the right to tell people ''well, you have to make this incredibly important decision when you're 21 and you're not allowed to change your mind after'' in the hope of avoiding any potential regrets in the future.

neetykeeno · 2023-03-15T22:49:01+00:00

The system doesn't support women definitively deciding no at age 18. If it did, we would let women get their tubes tied on their 18th birthday...and a lot would. The system deliberately forces the keeping of open options.

nastyfella · 2023-03-15T17:23:13+00:00

Having a baby is exhausting but having a baby in your 40s sounds 10x extra exhausting

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-03-15T21:12:58+00:00

I know too many women trying to get pregnant in their late 30s and 40s

Well that's between them and their doctors. Most women who have children average age 26 or 27 in the US for pregnancy.

It also may make more sense to delay career than motherhood

Not really, if you get a degree and then get pregnant before establishing a job history it can set you behind in the workplace for twenty years or a lifetime.

No, freezing eggs doesn't work most of the time. Many eggs die, many embryos don't stick, the uterus is weaker, and miscarriages are common.

Miscarriages are common regardless. 30%-40% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage in the US alone.

That's why it's between the pregnant person and their medical team.

Some women here may argue that it is not anyone's business to say this, and I'm not entitled to tell women what to do with their bodies, but that is not the point.

It's not merely that, it's that every woman's physiology has its own distinct needs and health and without you being part of her medical team and looking at her tests and records you can't make the call simply on age. Some women who are in their twenties have bodies that can't handle pregnancy and nonviable eggs, and plenty in their midthirties can have a healthy pregnancy.

Most people who are childfree decide it from a young age, but women who do decide to get pregnant often know the risks better than anyone. And their risks or lack thereof vary.

MyLastBestChance · 2023-03-16T00:02:32+00:00

Here’s an idea, since you don’t have a uterus and are so concerned about this, why don’t you direct your efforts towards men.

Encourage them to go to college, get on a career path and seriously look for marriage by the time they’re 25. Help them to understand that while men can’t physically carry or birth a child, they can and should be equally responsible for everything else. That means child care, housework, all of the chores of marriage and family life. Not just taking the baby for well visits but knowing that they are necessary, proactively scheduling them etc. Not texting to see if you need to pick up milk on the way home, knowing what needs doing and taking care of it without expecting a ticker tape parade.

If you want women to have babies, accept and embrace that you need to provide more than sperm and condescension.

Ok-Map-7596 · 2023-03-15T13:52:06+00:00

How early we talking?

gate18 · 2023-03-15T17:34:03+00:00

First, no one can avoid suffering.

so what is the point of developing your career younger...if at the end you will spend that money on trying to get pregnant?

First, you do not spend all your money on trying to get pregnant, you just do not. Secondly. Because it's easier to maintain a career rather than developing it. If you develop a career in your 20s and get pregnant at 40 and take a 9-months to 5-years gap, you can pick up where you left of. If you have kids then try to build a career, it's harder. You can live with a minimum wage when you are alone, not when you have kids

but women have have to decide if having children is more important than their career or not.

The clearly don't have to. No one in life has to take ultimatums. That's the beuty of freedom. Every path you take, you've decided to make other paths harder. And, yes, they made a dicision, they picked a career - tones of women have kids at late-30s and 40s.

No, freezing eggs doesn't work most of the time. Many eggs die, many embryos don't stick, the uterus is weaker, and miscarriages are common.

You are simply describing life. Many things do not plan out.

If you have an autistic or disabled child because you get pregnant late in life, it does affect us all. If you spend thousands on fertility treatments, it probably affects your family finances too.

What's it to you what she does with her family. And disabled people are born all the time. If you want to avoid that, let's stop having kids. We'll still become disabled ourselfs but we'll eventually die and we'll let the planet disabled-free.

It is also likely the taxpayers are having a greater burden dealing with a woman with health issues because she is pregnant in her late 30s or 40s.

And she payed it through her taxes.

anonimouse36 · 2023-03-15T19:28:28+00:00

I’m one of those women who waited till my late 30s. well I didn’t meet my husband till my late 20s and it took us several years to have a baby. Because of our infertility so we had to do iui and then ivf which we all had to pay out of pocket cash and no help from insurance we had to do it twice we finally found a better clinic w a better success rate and finally got a healthy baby after several losses. I would never want a baby in my twenties or w any of the men I met then. I may be more tired now but am definitely more sure of what I want now.

HungarianBathhouse · 2023-03-15T19:41:27+00:00

I had my first child at 21, my second at 23. Society literally socialized me OUT of motherhood, even though that was what I had opted into. Strangers regularly commented about how young I was when I would grocery shop. Moms groups outcasted me. My mom’s best friend called me “barefoot and pregnant” at thanksgiving even though I had chosen a spouse 7 yrs my senior who earned $80k with a graduate degree. What else? People would not hold open doors even when I was carrying a heavy carseat with a sleeping infant. Young adults at college looked at me like I was a freak when I was pregnant in classes. Then after divorce, the court in FL treated my life as if all I had been was a walking womb. Since my ex earned money while I had stayed home doing childcare and making modest money as a yoga teacher, he got mostly all the advantages and respect while I was slowly wedged further and further out of their lives, even though I was the nurturing conscientious one. Now they’re both teens and have extremely severe phone addictions and personality issues. Was it from being taken from their bio mom when their dad remarried and had another child?

Trust me. Having children too early in life can become a TRAGEDY.

Oh, and being poor. I didn’t experience welcomeness and equality in uni and work in my thirties. Women with advanced degrees and completely open schedules are promoted. NOT moms with scheduling requests and no grad degree.

I’m trying to be objective here and not take your opinion personally. It seems like you are biased and haven’t fully researched the spectrum of experiences.

As the reality that I will probably never get to be the main parent in control further sets in, I contemplate suicide somewhat regularly. Yes I talk to a professional about it. But just go look up the stats on parental alienation and suicides.

It feels life was lived for nothing at the end of the day.

With about 50% marriages ending in divorce and more children being born out of wedlock as marriage rates decline, your argument seems to not realize the bigger picture. I think everyone has the right to his or her own opinion, but I think to curtail ignorance, people really need to behave like an ethical researcher does and actively seek out various life experiences before coming to a conclusion.

I won’t kill myself because I don’t want that as a legacy for myself or my children. But my feelings and thoughts have been minimized for so many years it’s difficult to not have the thoughts.

I had an academic scholarship that would’ve paid entirely for college at 18. I wasn’t valedictorian but also was not dumb, unmotivated, or ignorant. It was to Rollins College, so not a school that accepted just anyone. I think society has largley skewed parenting to late 20’s- 30’s, and I believe it’s for the best.

Chairman_of_the_Pool · 2023-03-15T20:46:47+00:00

but women have have to decide if having children is more important than their career or not.

Women don’t have children in a vacuum. Most of the time there is a dad who wants to have a child, but is incapable of incubating a baby for 9 months and dealing with the next few months of recovery from that.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2023-03-15T18:04:58+00:00

It also may make more sense to delay career than motherhood. For example, a woman in her 30s with teenager kids can easily get into college and make a career (even supposing she did nothing but being a mother meanwhile!)

Many women have made the mistake of believing this, probably more than have made the mistake of thinking they can have kids in their forties.

The challenge of changing careers later in life is that employers aren’t going to be able to pay you what they’re paying other experienced professionals at you’re age, they’re going to pay you an amount equal to an intern or newbie. And if you have a 10 year gap on your resume, or even worse, no resume? They’d rather hire the energetic college grad with a flexible brain and schedule.

slazengerx · 2023-03-15T18:55:04+00:00

The subreddits about infertility are awful.

Equally awful are the subreddits like r/regretfulparents

It cuts both ways. The folks who are infertile haven't had the opportunity to experience the regrets associated with parenting. The regretful parents have.

insensitiveTwot · 2023-03-15T14:29:46+00:00

Ok then women should also be able to vote and smoke and drink as soon as they know that’s what they want to do right?

Gilmoregirlin · 2023-03-15T17:45:19+00:00

Most women do decide early in their lives they want to have children, they just cannot find a man that they think would be a good Father and they are compatible with and sometimes that does not happen until later in life. Your presumption is that these women wait until their late 30s or 40s to have kids by choice. But the reality for most women is that they have dated aggressively and with purpose and just not found the one. Yes career factors in but it not necessarily in the ways you think it does. First, men often are turned off by a woman with a career so it makes her dating pool even less and second men are not willing to be the primary parent even when the woman makes a lot more money than they do. Unlike men women do have to chose. But if men would be more supportive this would be so much easier. And I have seen women have kids with just any old guy to have kids and it always turns out poorly for the kids and the couple.

Are there some women that ignore their biological clock and then at 39 decide to have kids, of course but that's not the case with most.

Aromatic_Ad5473 · 2023-03-15T18:36:14+00:00

You’ve never changed your mind about something?

Loud_Definition6669 · 2023-03-15T18:48:29+00:00

What does this have to do with taxpayers?

Medicaid doesn't cover IVF.

Most social programs funded by tax payers are for young single mothers.

anonimouse36 · 2023-03-15T19:35:07+00:00

I know people who are younger than me w autistic children so autism doesn’t just affect older couples who have children. It can happen to anyone and I know older couples in there 40s w healthy children.

JazzlikeDot7142 · 2023-03-15T20:47:53+00:00

why is it always on the woman? i want kids so badly but after getting married my husband quickly changed his mind about it. i still love him and i don’t believe in divorce so i guess i’m not having kids which is something i always dreamed of but i’m so tired of hearing, “when are you having kids”, “how many kids are you going to have”, “you shouldn’t wait until you’re too old to have kids” etc. because it’s not up to me and i just have to keep smiling and shrug

MistyMaisel · 2023-03-16T01:07:16+00:00

Most men, in fact the vast vast majority, in their 20s do not want kids. They are also financially, socially, and emotionally incapable of supporting a woman and children. Perhaps you can make a post shaming them next in order to balance things out.

Or do you only try to enforce the fertility and child bearing and rearing responsibility on women?

meangingersnap · 2023-03-16T03:42:14+00:00

This isn’t something new that you need to be telling women, we constantly are told that. We know.

AnyIntroduction3288 · 2023-03-15T17:56:43+00:00

I would rather struggle to have a baby in my 30’s and 40’s and deal with the possibility of not having a child than carelessly and selfishly bring a child into the world in poverty and a life of struggle.

Most men are not able nor willing to support a stay at home mom and family in a nice UMC suburb with low crime, good schools, and ample opportunities.

Therefore, the onus is on me to work hard and build an income (since I can’t count on a man, men say my above standard is delusional) and to find a man who can afford what i want for my future kids.

I work with a lot of people in bad situations. Poverty comes with a plethora of issues. The zip code you grow up in is massively important as well as the schools you grow up going to. Yes there may be a few kids from high crime low income food desert inner city gang violence communities who work hard to overcome the barriers they face in life and end up becoming doctors, lawyers, and engineers. But those kids are exceptions. The system is designed to squash them and overcoming those barriers is a feat.

If I can’t have kids then I’ll use that as an opportunity to enjoy life more and be selfish. Maybe I’ll do RV life in a fancy RV with the money I would have used to buy a house. Maybe I’ll go live in another country and teach English for a while because the only person who would be impacted by this decision is myself. Or I just stay at my current job and use my PTO every year to take luxury vacations using my weekends for weekend getaways. If I’m married my husband and I will have a grand old time doing all this together. Also we could adopt. Or we could devote ourselves to religion and use our time and energy to preach.

Definitely-Butter · 2023-03-15T18:53:35+00:00

I'm not sure if this is a white woman thing or just not as common as the manosphere tries to make it out to be. I mainly know black and brown women and most of them continue having kids just fine well into their 40s.

I mainly only see the white manosphere acting as if it's basically impossible to get pregnant if you're over 25 lol.

AcanthocephalaNew947 · 2023-03-15T18:47:47+00:00

I disagree for one reason.

Control.

Men here LOVE to put women down who focused more on birthing children than having a career. They call her a leech on the system. They love to claim “the wage gap doesn’t exist because women earn less because they focus more on having kids”, they complain about having to be breadwinner, our bodies are shamed, I could keep going.

There is no one more disrespected on this sub than woman who have children.

And now we’re supposed to have them younger because it’s what’s best for us?!?

Pardon me if I call bullshit oh that one.

If I had to guess ulterior motives I’d say access to pussy and an ability to keep her in her place.

obviousredflag · 2023-03-15T16:16:57+00:00

As someone born to a 40yo mother, i appreciate being alive. What i would support though, is alternative paths through life other than being a parent in your 30s, 40s and sometimes 50s.

I suspect people get to the point of not knowing what to do with their life. The 20s and early 30s can easily be spent with entertaining and fulfilling lifestyle without kids. But when people are in their late 30s, most other people in their life have settled into family life. Their friends become few and far apart. And there isn't a smooth transition from partying with the 20s crowd into going to the opera with the 60+ crowd. You basically need children to fill your life with something to do besides working, if you are not the type to go your own way. Society has no mainstream-rolemodel-life without children in your 40s cut out for you yet. You got the house, the car, the dog. There are no more artificially set goals to strive for.

Lenox_Marulla · 2023-03-15T18:14:00+00:00

Women won't take it seriously until they face consequences. For now, they are good. It's men who are pissed at women going their own way. Let it happen. Let them make their beds and sleep in it.

No-Rough-7390 · 2023-03-15T18:44:32+00:00

It would ruin the 304 phase. The lie that they have forever to do it feelz nicer.

roger_roger_32 · 2023-03-15T18:59:45+00:00

I'll approach this from a different angle:

If you're going to focus on your career at the potential expense of having kids, make sure you understand exactly what "career success" looks like.

Known more than one hard-charging female who was dead-set on climbing the corporate ladder, only to find out that it was a fool's errand. The top of the ladder often pays well, but it's like having the nicest cell in prison. Great view, but you're still in prison.

Corporate America loves it though, every year new 20-somethings enter the workforce, willing to sacrifice their youth in the pursuit of some empty prize.

You only get one life. Choose wisely.

moosemc · 2023-03-15T19:05:31+00:00

I also, am concerned about women making decisions.

fupadestroyer45 · 2023-03-15T20:27:17+00:00

The fertility rate being far below replacement level in ALL devolped countries shows that we need to get serious about putting the family first again in culture. We're currently living in complete denial of objective reality on this issue and we're going to pay for it hard in just a few years. The biggest lie we currently tell women is that your career is just as important as a family, sometimes even more so. You end up with women manically depressed when a family becomes an impossibility after being led astray by ideologues hell bent on making everyone accept their delusions and this is only going to continually increase.

DoinIt989 · 2023-03-15T21:11:53+00:00

Plenty of women change their mind about kids between the ages of say 18 and 25. Having a kid gets a lot harder for women after 35, but you can still have your first kid at 39, 40 and pop out 2-3 total. Biological clock is real but not as bad as people say.

Dagenius1 · 2023-03-15T15:52:44+00:00

Reddit leans child free in a way that the real world doesn’t so I’m sure you’re comments will reflect that.

Of course I fully respect anyone who chooses not to have kids for any reason

That said, yes if you are a woman who wants children please have them early as opposed to trying to have them late. You could have 3 children and then start your career at 30 and still have an amazing career and family. if you go hard in your career and then try to have them in your late 30s you are asking for heartbreak

Good luck to everyone out there

relish5k · 2023-03-15T15:51:43+00:00

So the vast majority of women can conceive a healthy baby in their late 30s just fine.

BUT for those who do have issues conceiving, the medical options to help you get pregnant are MUCH more likely to be successful if you are in your late 20s/early to mid 30s.

Also, if you don’t start trying until later you might conceive the first baby fine but then struggle when it comes to getting pregnant with baby #2, so may have to settle for a smaller family than you wanted.

It’s difficult for women because they want to ensure economic stability for themselves and their future children, and in the western world it takes a lot of time to feel economically secure if you are trying to “do it right” (education, post-secondary education, career and advancement, etc). By this does conflict with fertility options. I disagree that you can just “postpone” a career just like that, if a woman does that she will almost certainly suffer economically and experience a slower rate of advancement.

All in all it’s just a tough choice to make, but as a society we do need to be honest and upfront with women about the risks of putting their fertility on back burner instead of selling dreams of expensive egg freezing as some kind of cure all.

Cat_Lover259 · 2023-03-15T19:14:18+00:00

Why don’t you just let people make this decision on their own and when they’re ready. We are worth so much more than just having children. The thing I hate most is men like you complaining about women wasting their “fErTiLe” years LIVING THEIR LIVES. Grow up. The world is doing fine, there isn’t a population scare, they’re telling us that so they can control women and getting rid of abortions altogether.

Choice_Bath_3114 · 2023-03-15T22:14:21+00:00

honestly men should take this advice too. men themselves start desiring children in their 30's (trust me, when you reach that age, you will feel it too) but it is a real bitch trying to make one with your wife in the 30's. all that fertility planning really zaps the fun out of sex and there are times where you will seriously develop a hatred towards sex so profound that you feel tempted to become a monk. as a married man who is one of these men in those fertility clinic/fertility planning regiments, my advice to men is: "Fuck and make a kid with your girlfriend or wife while you are still young and while sex is still fun, then ask questions later. don't be me in my 30's trying to do this purposely"

Spirited-Strain919 · 2023-03-15T18:14:45+00:00

This is laughable. My grandma had my mom at 44 and my mom had me at 48. This is just so not a fear of mine. And if I don’t get pregnant in my 40’s?Well then I will be one hell of a foster parent and maybe adopt someday. You seem to think that all potential mothers are desperate for a natural born child and frankly that’s really ignorant. And really a weird thing for you to be concerned about. Stay in your lane bro.

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-03-15T18:30:59+00:00

It baffles me there are people who think like you.

Vronicasawyerredsded · 2023-03-15T19:09:45+00:00

Are you female? Why do you think a subreddit devoted to infertility is representative of the ability of females to become and carry a pregnancy to term in their 30’s and 40’s?

Particular_Fuel_9859 · 2023-03-15T17:25:04+00:00

Yes.

8/10 childless women intended to have children.

Peacesquad · 2023-03-15T17:57:14+00:00

Isn’t this misogynistic?

CommunicationNo9896 · 2023-03-15T18:40:02+00:00

This is really why guys who want a family should look overseas or to immigrant cultures that still value motherhood and having families and haven't bought into the feminist lie that a career can or should come first

LordPeppino · 2023-03-15T14:26:38+00:00

Dude, let them wipe out themselves from the gene pool.

The world is too cruel to let selfish women to make this decision.

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Trouvette · 2023-03-15T17:34:10+00:00

I tend to agree. I knew very early on in life that I did not want children and I planned my life accordingly. I have avoided a lot of the relationship pitfalls as a result and can love my boyfriend without an agenda.

RinoaRita · 2023-03-15T23:13:12+00:00

I was definitely a hard maybe in my 20s and then in my early 30s I met my husband. Got married in my mid 30s and had kids shortly after.

Now I can’t confirm or deny what we would have done if we had issues with fertility but I can definitely confirm I wasn’t ready mentally or financially for kids in my 20s. I can give my kids the things they need to thrive.

Fiveheadeat · 2023-03-15T23:26:25+00:00

We’re in a unique time in history where there’s too many people, so mass quantities of women are choosing not to have kids, or at least not prioritizing it. That’s great. Get your bag girl.

Assuming civilization still exists a few generations from now, the population will eventually peak and then plummet. Our luxurious first world will probably be severely reduced in quality, and people will revert back to their gender roles at that point. You can only be a feminist in a first world country. The world was built by strong, toxic men. I’m talking about jobs that 80% of men are too weak to do, let alone 99.9% of women.

Just be glad you’re in a unique era where women have the freedom to pursue their independence. It’s a luxury facilitated by a surplus population. Eventually, childbirth will become the most important purpose of women again. Hopefully there’s a cultural incentive. I mean, you can’t just force women to have children, but once we actually need more people again, women are gonna need to put their egos aside, cooperate with men and push out some babies 🤷‍♂️

SoldierExcelsior · 2023-03-16T02:11:07+00:00

I think it's better to haveva child young ...but with modern technology women are pushing it further back soon having babies in your 50s will be the norm or using surrogates.

_here_ok · 2023-03-16T02:20:47+00:00

Well the question will always be serious, they will always think of this question. It's just a matter of decisiveness which isn't something most people have. So many just let things flow. Women and men need to make a decisive decision, yes they need to worry but making no decision at all is the equivalent of standing In front of a gun. Doing anything at all is better than nothing, you see a gun you have so many options to avoid or confront it. Do nothing and you get shot, the bullet being reality.

anon-sucks · 2023-03-16T09:48:55+00:00

Not sure why anyone should care about this. It’s not like a bunch of 20 yo men want to be fathers. Sure, if women lie to themselves and push off kids till their late 30s they have screwed themselves but who really cares?

Electrical_Coat_8714 · 2023-03-16T13:22:52+00:00

That's massively unreasonable, I can't decide what MAGIC DECK I want to play at near 25, and you want women to decide if they want to have children. . at what age exactly. You left out the number because anything in the early 20s would have sounded unreasonable.

And life really does happen.

I don't think women should be trying to have kids after 40, either, but I'm neither a woman nor a doctor, so I don't know the odds or mechanics, just that it's generally less successful.

I feel like women in their 30s do fine too. Being a good mother takes experience and in today's times, funds. Let people do what they want, be glad people are still having kids anyway to take care of your old ass later

itsokiloveu · 2023-03-19T00:14:35+00:00

It’s not about “which is more important” having a child is a privilege not many people can even afford nowadays.

Title	Women should take seriously the question if they want to have children or not early in life and stick to it to avoid suffering.
Author	CommunicationNo9896
Upvotes	48
Comments	408
Date	March 15, 2023 1:44 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11rwttn/women_should_take_seriously_the_question_if_they/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-should-take-seriously-the-question-if-they.1176920 https://theredarchive.com/post/1176920

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