Q4W: Do you believe/know/think that your grandmothers have never loved your grandfathers?

anonymous-platypus1 · 2023-03-20T20:34:12+00:00

I know for a fact my grandma definitely wasn’t in love with him for most of her marriage and only stayed because she couldn’t get a job to support herself or her kids for a long long time. Once one of the kids was old enough to work and help she separated. He was very abusive to her and their kids. I think my grandma had 12 kids, 9 boys, 3 girls.

She cooked every meal, kept an immaculate house and he still cheated and beat her because she dared complain and ask why he was cheating. Then he neglected the family to pay for his mistress.

SussanahAlyce · 2023-03-20T21:08:14+00:00

Neither of my grandmothers wanted to marry my grandfathers. I'm not sure either wanted to marry at all.

One was coerced by my older would-be grandfather to have sex before she was ready and she was pregnant and married within a couple months. Stuck for life to an abusive alcoholic. In her culture at that time, divorce would have resulted in her and the kids being ostracized. And she had no independent finances or marketable skills to leverage.

My other grandmother had to drop out of school to take a WWII factory job at 16. The war ended, the job went away and she had no skills that matched available jobs in her town. So she got married and had kids because that's what you do. If she could have gotten her own bank account in the late 40s and had any semblance of independence, I bet she wouldn't have looked twice at my would-be grandfather.

Marriage was about survival. Not love, family, or choice.

EulenWatcher · 2023-03-20T20:46:38+00:00

I suppose my grandma loved her husband. At least I've never heard her or their children to speak ill about him. He was almost the only man in the village who didn't drink, lose his money, cheat or beat up his wife, so she was considered outstandingly lucky.

She still heavily pushed her kids to get education and her conviction got even stricter with her granddaughters. She often says how lucky we are to have the choices we have and live in the time we do. So I guess she would want to have these choices herself.

MyLastBestChance · 2023-03-20T20:11:30+00:00

My grandmother definitely did not love my grandfather. She never denigrated him and she played her part until he died, but boy did she blossom afterwards. Not living with a grumpy, dour, mean spirited, parsimonious man turned her from a quiet sad, meek mouse into a beautiful, lively, happy woman who laughed and smiled and enjoyed life. I think they had been married for about 45 years when he died. She started going on trips with her lady friends, going dancing (big band / ballroom, not clubs in case I have to specify), playing bridge every week etc. She did all of that for about 20 years and then at 85 married a man in his early 70's who was a good dancer and was very happy until she died at 92. Even my father who will never say a negative thing about anyone has said that my grandfather was a "difficult" man and that he is very glad that his mother finally got to enjoy her life after all of those years.

blueshinx · 2023-03-20T20:36:24+00:00

Love marriages just weren’t the norm until modern days, that’s nothing new. But both of my grandmothers had luck.

My maternal turkish grandmother was almost forced into an arranged marriage but then she threatened to kill herself and got her then boyfriend (my grandpa) to ask her parents for her hand in marriage.

My paternal german grandma married my west african granddad. She’s always been a bit of a hippie and free thinker, it wasn’t necessity or social pressure that made her date him

Neither of them were housewives.

potoricco · 2023-03-21T00:12:07+00:00

I know for a fact that none of my grandmothers genuinely loved my grandfathers. They all got married in their teens when my grandfathers were older men. Hell my fathers mother had been married and had my dad when she was 16. My mother’s father married 2 different women simultaneously so I have 3 grandmothers. Yes they had to pair up and marriage wasn’t for love, just survival. But keep in mind this was in africa during the 1960s-70s

Both grandfathers have since died but to this day, out of all 3 of my grandmothers, not one of them ever mentions anything whatsoever about their husbands. Marrying for love is a privilege I keep telling people that

2023-03-20T20:06:32+00:00

I don’t have to go back as far as grandparents. It was true for my parents, I think. I don’t think they ever loved each other. My mom was indoctrinated with the idea that she had to find a husband and become a housewife, and likewise my dad at that time couldn’t imagine anything but marrying his first girlfriend and having kids. So they did. But they were totally wrong for each other.

Mostly, from talking to the many people from the older generation over the years — whether or not they loved each other varied. Sometimes they really did. Sometimes they didn’t at first, but grew to love each other. And many times it was just that love wasn’t really what they expected out of marriage. You needed to pair up to have a family and be able to manage the farm or whatever, so you did with whatever eligible person seemed an okay match.

Midaycarehere · 2023-03-20T21:10:59+00:00

I’m pretty sure they did not. It was just expected they stay together. One grandfather had affairs, my other grandmother had an affair (and an affair baby - my father). No divorces.

kochIndustriesRussia · 2023-03-20T21:51:57+00:00

Marrying for love is - historically speaking - rather new. Not many people outside of the last 70-80 years married for love. It was usually necessary for survival.

ItWasBrokenAlready · 2023-03-20T20:11:49+00:00

Yeah, I don't think she did.

Her first husband was taken away during WWII and she never learned of his fate. Presumed dead, but nothing for sure. She miscarried her first child during bombarding.

She married my grandpa later in life, because she wanted badly to have children. Because there was never a death certificate, it was only state marriage, as church did not allow second. That made her very sad as a devout catholic.

As soon as she was having doing children she and grandpa vowed in the church to enter 'white marriage' (celibate), so that she could take communion during Sunday mass again.

thelittlemermaid99 · 2023-03-20T20:16:40+00:00

Well, my grandma didn't love my grandpa and they divorced after less than 1 year of marriage. She told me she was attracted to him but he wasn't as nice and charming as he made her believe. She married again in her mid twenties and she definetely still loves her second husband.

Barneysparky · 2023-03-20T22:12:06+00:00

My mother and grandmother were immigrants on their own in the 1930s.

They rented a room and slept on the same twin bed until my mom got married when she was 32, in the early 50s. My dad was obese and probably on the spectrum my mother was the first date he had, he was in his mid-30s.

My parents had a very deep love, but no passion of course, which also meant no arguments I guess.

My mom would not date men if she was born today.

redkoicarp · 2023-03-20T20:24:46+00:00

I think that quite a lot of relationships in the past formed due to necessity. I do believe this is common occurrence until this days (especially in poor countries).

But it was not my case with my grandmother, I believe my grandmother and grandfather respected each other a lot. My grandmother mourned my grandfather very much when he died. The other side of my parents - I never came to know them, but I didn't hear anything bad either (also they had seven children, but that doesn't say anything, of course).

Also, quite a lot of old couples I got to know showed a particular kind of "devotion" toward one another and a certain way of "not being able to live without the other" (aka rapidly declining health and well-being after one's death). I do not know whether this could be described as "love" in our narrow view of this word, but it certainly is some kind of love that many couples seem to be living.

Novadina · 2023-03-20T20:07:42+00:00

My grandmothers were born around 1920. On my mom’s side my grandma appeared to love my grandpa until she died from what I could tell. But they were first cousins, as was common in Sephardic communities at the time… Seems kind of fucked up to me.

On my dad’s side I’m not so sure love played a part in his parent’s marriage at all. My aunt once told me my grandma asked her once what an orgasm felt like, and if it really was something men did for her, this was years after my grandpa died. My grandma also told me before how lucky I was I could choose my own path in life, including picking a husband based on things I like, and choosing to not have kids. How she had dreams that she could never do once she got married, she was sad about it. I asked why she got married and she said my grandpa offered and he was a good Jewish man and had a decent enough job and it seemed like a good move. It sounded was more like getting a job offer than anything about love or attraction.

Excellent_Badger123 · 2023-03-21T06:02:59+00:00

My granny was married to my grandpa for 75 years. She was 15 when they wed - mind you this was the norm as they were both born in the late 1800’s. My father was her 10th & last child. Her family had money/status in the small Appalachian community that I/they grew up in - it’s still a tiny dot on the map named after her ancestors. When grandpa died at age 99 I was still in high school and volunteered to move in with her to look out for her as she was still physically ok but showing signs of early dementia + I was anxious to escape my abusive alcoholic father.

She saw me taking a birth control pill once & asked “what’s that??”. I told her and she was astounded! “I wish I’d had those!”. She then went on to tell me that grandpa NEVER once kissed her and that as soon as she was done popping out one baby, he was “right back at it”. She was pretty open about the lack of pleasure she experienced. I don’t think love as we know it today was part of the equation.

Being single and ready to mingle at age 92 she asked me to invite some men over for “courting” purposes. I invited some of my male friends to come over and meet her just for fun. We rolled some spliffs - “you young people are so thrifty for rolling your own tobacco”.

She was a hoot but I doubt she ever had an actual orgasm in her 97 year life.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2023-03-20T20:28:52+00:00

My grandparents were married for 71 years and were in love for every day of it. They were fucking adorable until my gma died at 94.

My grandpa was a good man and wouldn’t have had any problem getting a woman today. He went to college, and then law school, and then owned his own business. He was hands on with raising his kids and open with his his love and affection. He did chores with my gma everyday (they had their routine). He would write her little love notes and hide them in her pots so she would find them when she cooked. He was never standoffish. He didn’t chastise her or expect her to keep her mouth shut. He marveled in her intelligence and drive as a college educated woman (which wasn’t exactly common for a woman who went to college in the late 1930s), and was a diehard feminist

DiamondLilyD · 2023-03-20T20:05:56+00:00

I know she did at first but after he cheated, no.

She stayed because she had no other choice but she didn't love him, she told several of my family members that.

SeveralSadEvenings · 2023-03-20T21:00:43+00:00

Absolutely.

Theirs was an arranged marriage in a tiny catholic Caribbean country that produced 5 kids and unimaginable misery.

Then my grandfather died and my grandma remarried her 'love match' which was a childhood sweetheart. Unfortunately it was a short lived romance as he also died, but he managed to give her 5 more kids before he passed away.

My grandmother was a very bitter woman after experiencing so much abuse, death, powerlessness, and poverty in her life.

PonderingPeaches · 2023-03-20T21:15:10+00:00

My moms parents aren’t in love. He cheated on her for years and years. She knew it and couldn’t do anything about it. They had 5 kids. They’re still married. I’ve never seen them touch.

I don’t know about my dads parents. We didn’t see them as much.

Kaidysage · 2023-03-20T22:34:31+00:00

I'm sure she did (despite him being awful) but she has told me repeatedly that women today are very lucky because they have the option of a nice life on their own if that's what they want. I don't think she would have stayed if that was a viable option

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2023-03-20T20:07:46+00:00

I know it for a fact. she was grateful to him and they were together for 50 years til he died, but she had a love of her life before the holocaust who she never got over. according to her she was not my grampas 1st choice either

Decent-Zombie-5513 · 2023-03-20T19:59:07+00:00

I have thought about this and yer this was probs the case a lot more than not.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-03-20T20:27:54+00:00

I know that my grandparents did love each other. My granny has never stopped loving my granddad and wants to be buried with him nearly fifty years after his murder. My nana and granda were basically my model of a perfect relationship. Mind you, they all became adults only after the Second World War, so they did have actual choice in the matter. (And two pairs of childhood sweethearts. A couple who felt that they needed to pair up and hadn't within that time frame may well be a different story. The idea is that some couples lived each other, and those who didn't had to become couples anyway.)

10throwawayantsy · 2023-03-20T21:47:58+00:00

On my dad's side, they had a really dysfunctional, poor marriage. They were pressured into getting married at 17 because my grandmother got pregnant.

On my mom's side, my grandfather was an abusive alcoholic and my grandma was an immigrant in a country where she barely spoke English.

Does "love" really matter under these circumstances?

TetsuoTamayaka · 2023-03-20T23:21:51+00:00

My paternal grandma was a 403 who got pregnant at 16 with a married man. They made her marry a widow, which was my grandpa. I’m sure she didn’t love him. My maternal grandma got with my grandpa very young and they had 10 kids together. I still have pics of them in their old age hugging each others and laughing. I’m sure they loved each others.

Fakhr-al-Din_II · 2023-03-20T22:40:52+00:00

Father's side had an arranged marriage in the 1960s and so their relationship has been pragmatic companionship since at least the 1980s. Definitely do not love eachother in a romantic way. Many issues, having separate bedrooms solved many of them.

Mother's side had a "love at first sight" kind of relationship. Grandfather met her at a lake with her friends as a teenager, she left her shoes and he spent the next week trying to find out who she was to return it and talk to her again. Yeah, like Cinderella. He even showed me his college transcript where one semester he went from all As to Cs and Ds. That was the semester where he thought her father was going to marry her off to another man while he was studying in a different country. She rejected the marriage and waited for my grandfather.

They eventually got married and he had to borrow money to pay for a small wedding meal. She also worked in an office as well which was not common at the time in the Middle East.

50+ years later they are still inseparable. Cannot even imagine them not together, would be odd.

LotBuilder · 2023-03-21T02:02:04+00:00

She loved him but was not terrible broken up when he passed. It was time. He was 16 years older and quite the handful. She was every bit of the housewife/mom and partner doing her best to make him look good. He passed when she was 55. She lived another 30+ years and was very happy to do whatever she wanted. He left her in great shape financially.

Funny story: for as long as I could remember my grandma ate plain cheerios with a banana for breakfast. I was 35 at the time so it was at least my entire life. She’s 75’ish. She looks up one morning before taking a bite and says “you know what, I don’t even like Cheerios”. Then she goes and throws the full bowl into the sink and stomps off to buy a waffle maker. Apparently she prefers waffles and just got into a routine she never broke until that day. For her last 10’ish years she had chocolate chip waffles every morning. 😂😂😂. Such a little thing but it’s hard for older people to break habits. She stopped doing a damn thing she didn’t want to do.

JoeRMD77 · 2023-03-21T04:32:56+00:00

I know couples today who don't even love each other, so who cares about what our grandparents did. in all honesty, they probably did love each other more than a couple's do today because they didn't have all these distractions.

I've met a few married women who just seem like they are slaves to their husband and they don't even have access to credit cards or debit cards? Doesn't really sound like love to me, sounds more like a racket that 1 person runs on another these days.

Twinseo09 · 2023-03-21T07:27:29+00:00

Nope. My grandfather had 7+ kids out of wedlock and was a heavy drinker, yet he provided for them all constantly. My grandmother didn't like him and only stayed because she didn't have any skills other than housework. She didn't even have a car, so she needed transportation when she worked part-time as a maid. My grandfather basically had complete control over her, and she recognized this and kept quiet. But once he died, my 70-year-old grandmother had a lot to say!

Diddy_1978 · 2023-03-21T12:51:41+00:00

Luckily my grandmother was a strong independent woman who married for love. She worked, and had studied to complete her secondary school (class 1919, so quite rare).

Safinated · 2023-03-20T19:57:49+00:00

No idea. Love didn’t seem to be a factor, just obligation/conformity. And that was only somewhat less true in their children’s marriages

That__EST · 2023-03-20T20:17:54+00:00

I think they were love matches? But my grandmother also made sure to tell me that "men with options, cheat" before I got married. There was also advice that marriage wasn't about happiness and if I became unhappy in my marriage to just mentally check out and get a hobby. That men won't make you happy. That marriage is about family stability so if you're not going to have children, don't bother.

YaKnowEstacado · 2023-03-20T20:25:03+00:00

My paternal grandmother and grandfather had a very formal Christian marriage. I have no doubt they loved each other in a familial way but there wasn't a lot of affection there, at least not that I ever saw (and according to my dad not when he was growing up either).

My maternal grandmother and grandfather got married at age 17 and 19, respectively, right after my grandpa joined the army. I do think finances and stability were part of my grandmother's calculus in getting married so young -- she was #9 out of 10 children and spent most of her childhood homeless and destitute -- but I do think they loved each other. They got divorced in the late 70s when my mom was a teenager, due to my grandfather's alcoholism and drug addiction which led him to pretty much abandon his family. About ten years later, my grandmother remarried in her 50s to the man she still calls the love of her life, and she was madly in love with him until the day he died.

I will say, once my bio granddad sobered up and patched up his relationship with my mom and her siblings, he and my grandma reconnected and were great friends. He died in 2021 and my grandma was with him a lot when he was in hospice.

liefelijk · 2023-03-20T20:28:19+00:00

I have 4 sets of grandparents (from stepparents) and 2/4 seemed like love matches.

Of the other two, one was a poor match on personality (so neither husband nor wife were particularly satisfied) and the other had a philandering husband who she lived apart from for years (but never divorced).

Bekiala · 2023-03-20T20:41:15+00:00

My grandmothers seemed to make their marriages work. If they had been born at a different time, they may well have done things differently. Culture and their entire upbringing was such that getting married was one of their only options.

I wouldn't have wanted to be in either of these marriages.

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-03-20T20:44:05+00:00

My grandparents on my mom’s side adored each other. My grandmother died young-ish and my grandfather never remarried.

My great grandmother on my dad’s side, however, detested both her husbands.

Gilmoregirlin · 2023-03-20T21:23:19+00:00

My maternal grandparents I do believe were in love with each other, but sadly my grandmother died young, (I was 7) so I really can't say for sure. My paternal grandparents only got married because my grandmother was pregnant with my Dad and that's how things were done in that day and age. He had a drinking problem and for years was abusive but she had nowhere to go and would have been shamed out of town and the church if she filed for divorce. He died when I was 14 and immediately after that my grandmother was like a different person. She got two jobs (he would never allow her to work) she learned to drive in her 50s (he would not allow her to have her license) and she lived through my early 20s and boy did she tell me some stories. So no she did not love him, she had little no choice. She was a poor immigrant girl and she told me that women did not speak of these things (problems in marriage) and women did not divorce even if your husband cheated. She said no one would believe you and if they did they would not care. So to answer your question no she never loved him. He did not love her.

ashleyrose56 · 2023-03-20T21:26:28+00:00

I know it for sure because she has told me multiple times.

bread93096 · 2023-03-20T21:58:22+00:00

My grandmother and grandfather most likely got married because of an unintended premarital pregnancy. I doubt they would have stuck together in the long term without that happening, as they were very different personalities. But they felt a sense of responsibility to each other, and both of them committed fully. I think when you spend that many years together, share the experience of raising a family, you can’t help but come to love each other. I know my grandpa was definitely very sad when she died.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-03-20T23:48:22+00:00

One of my grandmothers was raped when she was a young woman repeatedly by the person she was coerced into marrying. He passed away after ten years from chronic heart issues, and she eventually remarried someone she actually loved even though in that community when your first husband died it was considered more acceptable to never remarry and to wear mourning black for the rest of your days (very Catholic European country).

As to my other sets of grandparents. It's unclear. Some died before I was born and aren't talked about much, those who survived were not openly affectionate with one another but I grant it's possible they loved each other dearly behind closed doors.

I definitely think some couples of generations ago did love each other.

Some were pressured or coerced into being with one another. Some were sold to the highest bidder, or given to a family that was held in "high esteem". Though women undoubtedly suffered more from this there were also men who were victim. They may have loved someone from "not a good family" and were forced to marry someone they did not want due to their father's ideas of legacy and conditions for survival.

Even today children are forced to marry their rapists or much older adults (child marriage is in the tens of thousands in the US every year and still legal in many states, usually in fundamentalist communities, usually but not always the child spouse is a girl and the husband is a much older man).

Enthusiastically consented to marriages have existed throughout history but in much smaller percentages then as compared to now.

Some thousands-of-year-old stories are about love or desire overcoming business attempts to marry someone off, often they involved infidelity (forced to marry a woman you didn't want because her dad was a big powerful person in town, you ran off to be with the lady love or lust of your life or night).

mackenzie013_02 · 2023-03-21T02:55:21+00:00

My grandmother broke up with her fiancé to go on a date with my grandfather. She was rebellious. I also know she did love him, they’ve been married until he died 6 years ago and she’s now 90+ and constantly talks how she wants to “go be with him again”.

That said, her story is uncommon. I volunteered with seniors and heard many stories of how they didn’t have a choice, but to marry.

Charming_Raspberry93 · 2023-03-21T06:55:13+00:00

My grandma ended up having an affair with a woman behind my grandpas back. It destroyed him. He never ever got over it.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2023-03-21T11:40:58+00:00

My mother is also a good example she was married to my dad had three children he then left her for my step mum.

She was then in her own with us and married my step dad, she was so grateful that he ‘took us on’ that she stayed while very unhappy, she is in her 60s now and still unhappy with him

CompleteRetard69 · 2023-03-21T13:29:02+00:00

My grandparents did. They left my mom and aunts at home while they went to disco every weekend.

Sophiatab · 2023-03-21T14:16:55+00:00

I know my grandmother loved my grandfather, but their partnership was very unusual for their time and different from most of their peer group. They served in the Partisans in former Yugoslavia and she had outranked him. He gave her respect for that until the day he died. However, many women her age who were family friends have confided in me how much they hated their husbands and were overjoyed the day the men died.

BigVulvaEnergy · 2023-03-20T20:57:37+00:00

My grandmother couldn't open a bank account, get a credit card, or lease an apartment without a husband.

So....yes, women HAD to pair up. In fact, they were OBLIGATED.

Today, I'm not obligated to be paired up. I choose to be in a relationship. I don't need a relationship to open a bank account, get a credit card, or lease an apartment. I can and did that on my own before deciding to combine households with a man.

ashpr0ulx · 2023-03-20T20:40:10+00:00

one set of grandparents were married in a very shotgun wedding fashion after my grandmother fell pregnant. they were dutiful to one another but not loving.

the other was a love match, as far as we all know.

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2023-03-20T21:16:29+00:00

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Jambi1913 · 2023-03-20T21:22:10+00:00

I think they loved each other in a way that perhaps we think of as “settling” or some such today. Affection, cooperation and loyalty - but not so much based on sexual passion and being starry-eyed as we idealise today.

I didn’t know either of my grandpas - they both died before I was born. One grandma died when I was 8, so I never got to talk to her about her husband. But my dad’s mother lived until she was 92, so I did talk to her quite a bit.

Both my grandpas fought in WWII and got married when they returned. There was about a 10-12 year age gap to their younger wives (who would have been 21-23 when they married). Mostly Catholic backgrounds (Italian on one side - Irish/English on the other) - so quite traditional and family oriented.

Getting married was what a young woman aspired to. If they worked at all, it was not to have a career - but to make a little money while they (and their family) searched for a good husband. This is such a different approach from today’s motivation for a relationship. Women (and men - though they usually had some “flings” before marriage) back then had to be very pragmatic - you were looking for someone who could help you and your future children create a safe and stable foothold in life. Your sexual/romantic desires came second. Life was more about doing your duty for your family legacy than fulfilling your own dreams. In some ways this is admirable - in others, it’s kind of shitty to have to jam yourself into this role and stifle your individuality, right? And that seems to have been worse for women, imo.

As far as I could tell, my grandmas loved and looked up to their husbands. They were good men who had been through a lot in the war and were working hard to provide for their families. My grandmas appreciated that. From what I’ve heard, my grandpas in turn appreciated the nurturing and support of their wives - recognising the pain and consequences of childbirth and the challenges their wives faced with their side of the family responsibilities. I think there was a lot of mutual respect and affection. Whether there was a lot of passion and romance, I don’t know - but I don’t think that mattered to them like it does to us today. That was seen as self-indulgent. It was more important to create a happy and stable home and provide a good springboard to the future for your children.

This all sounds great in many ways - but both my grandmas wanted their daughters to have an education and explore their options before settling down. They seemed to feel they had missed out on many things in life by getting married and having kids young and giving themselves over entirely to supporting their husband and kids and doing very little for themselves. These women never stopped working and always put everyone else first - you just knew it being around them, their self esteem an confidence was somewhat low. They both got jobs and had hobbies after their husbands died - but neither remarried or had another relationship.

The husbands always had more freedom - they worked, yes, but they had hobbies and opportunities to expand their minds and experience life before they married and after in ways their wives didn’t (not that the war was a good or typical experience of course - although my dad’s dad fathered a child when he was first sent over to England, lol, and also got friendly with the daughter of a farmer that he worked for as a POW in Austria). Anyway - it’s easy to romanticise the past - but a lot of women may have loved their husbands and done their duty then, but dreamed of having more choice in life. I don’t think that means their love wasn’t real or didn’t count though. But it’s undeniably different today - and that has it’s pros and cons.

Katatonicsnake · 2023-03-20T22:10:14+00:00

My mother’s parents are boomers. They didn’t have to pair up to survive. My great-grandmother was totally in love with my great-grandfather. My father’s parents were toxic when they were together, but they didn’t have to be together. Both of them have admitted that they were each other’s one and only kind of loves.

Popular_Accountant60 · 2023-03-20T23:29:03+00:00

Everyone says my grandmother has since been happier since my grandfather passed away. I never met him he passed before I was born, but Ive never heard good things about him

text-redacted · 2023-03-21T01:14:44+00:00

Both my grandmother's adored their husbands.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-03-21T02:44:50+00:00

My grandmothers both loved my grandfathers when they married right out of high school. But they also both had rocky marriages, almost divorced and probably should’ve. One grandfather was unfaithful, and the one on the other side was physically and verbally abusive to his sons and gaslighted my grandma about it. Of course they were a lot nicer when I knew them, but my parents have been honest about how it was growing up.

Marriages weren’t any better back then, people were just more private about their problems and less apt to divorce due to stigma and women not being able to support themselves as easily. It’s not that these women “never loved” their husbands - they loved the mask they were wearing at the start of the marriages, but not their true angry, mean, cheating colors. Just like nowadays, except they were more stuck.

prizefighterstudent · 2023-03-21T04:26:29+00:00

Neither of mine were. One of my grandfathers was emotionally distant, lowkey abusive. The other one lived an extremely difficult childhood being the eldest son and child during wartime. He definitely took it out on his family -- my grandmother got over his death very quickly.

I_DRINK_ANARCHY · 2023-03-21T04:31:46+00:00

Both my grandmothers absolutely adored their respective husbands (and vice versa), at least as far as I could tell.

My mom's dad died when I was little, so I didn't get to see them interact, but from stories, home videos, and pictures, it seems they really loved each other. Plus my mom's mom was going to be a nun before she met my grandfather, so you know he was doing something special to change her mind on that! And she was only in her late 50's when he died, she could have met someone else, but nope. He is her husband until the day she dies, too.

Oh my dad's side, my grandmom regaled me with stories of a few men wanting to marry her, but she was set on gramps and wouldn't accept anyone else. He died when I was in high school, and I spent a lot of time with them, so I did get to watch them together. They were always loving and affectionate, and when he got sick (Alzheimer's and Parkinson's) she wouldn't let anyone else take care of him until she had to let her kids help. She died a few years ago, and even though I'm not religious/spiritual, a part of me likes to imagine the two of them back together in some happy afterlife.

However, somewhere down my mom's maternal line, I have a great-great (great?) grandfather who abused his wife and kids. Then he lost his legs in an industrial accident and somehow got worse. He apparently used his wheelchair to trap his wife in a room to starve her. She got granted a divorce when that really wasn't a thing, so you know he was a vicious bastard.

throwaway1276444 · 2023-03-21T09:59:22+00:00

My grandparents had an arrange marriage when he was 15 and she was 12. in the 1930s or something. She always yelled at him for letting me watch too much TV and he always yelled back that it was fine, boy likes to watch movies and to let him. I would spend summers with them. They spoiled me as I was their "white boy". As they liked to call me. (I am not actually white, but was brought up western and acted like a foreigner). They had a lot of other grand kids.

Granny eventually got ill and he took care of her as much as he could. She was quiet and he was always active. She nagged and he always answered in a Yeah, yeah woman way, but usually did what she asked. They always slept in the same bed. I never really saw them showing any pda, but they were from a different time and culture.

One day he suddenly died of a heart attack in the middle of the night. She turned into a vegetable for the next two weeks, and the only thing she ever muttered were, "I was not supposed to see you die xxxx. How could you do this to me" She died two weeks later in the hospital, from her illness, that she kept at bay for over a decade. They were buried together.

This woman hoped to die before her husband, as she never wanted to go through the pain of ever loosing him. That must be love right? I could only wish that my spouse feels the same way about me when we both have one foot in the grave.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2023-03-21T11:33:50+00:00

My dads parents yes I do, she was give freedom almost unheard of for a woman born in 1901, she even studied chemistry at uni. Which is where she met my grandfather. Honestly the pair of them were such an inspiration to me

mandoa_sky · 2023-03-21T11:38:29+00:00

my great-grandparents on mum's side definitely had an arranged marriage. great grandpa randomly upped and left and we never know the guy (I don't know anything about the dude other than the fact he existed at one point because I do).

so i do know that whilst arranged marriages can create kids, the love part is very optional.

INFPneedshelp · 2023-03-21T12:10:53+00:00

One grandma did; one didn't

EmptyBox5653 · 2023-03-21T12:29:51+00:00

My paternal East Indian grandparents had an arranged marriage. I was raised by my American mom and by then westernized dad, so growing up, I was fascinated by the concept of an arranged marriage.

I asked my grandma lots of questions growing up, but the one I really remember best is “Did you love grandpa, or just like him?” She said “Of course I love grandpa, I love you, I love your daddy, and I love my family”.

She had a third grade education, was threatened out of her home in Uganda, lived in a refugee camp for 2 years, and just had a very hard life. And still, the only time I’ve ever seen her cry was at my grandpa’s funeral.

I know she “loved” him, but it took me getting old enough to understand cultural differences to understand that for my grandparents, there was no distinction between a sexual romantic love and a dutiful familial love.

Obviously there’s enough of a cultural difference that the western and westernized marriages (“love matches”) of American grandparents will self-describe those relationships as based in romantic love. But I still think marriages based on obligation and familial love describe the generational economic and sociopolitical realities of our grandparents’ time - even in the west.

Thatshygurl · 2023-03-21T14:09:02+00:00

My paternal grandparents were the epitome of soul mates. They’d bicker like any old couple, but always reconcile sweetly. They’d teach me lessons about compromise, and told me that it’s important to make sacrifices for our loved ones. Even after 65+ years of marriage they’d still hold hands and snuggle one another. To answer your question though, there’s no doubt in my mind that my grandma loved my grandpa. When he passed away it was like a part of her died with him.

herinquisition · 2023-03-20T22:33:40+00:00

That's just historical fact though. Most marriages were not initially based on love in human history. Marriage has been largely about property, land, wealth, family, and survival for the woman. Any basic history class can teach this, it's not hidden information. The fewer rights women have, the more they will stay in relationships that they would have exited if they could do so safely and without crippling social shame.

Asking whether or not those women never loved their partners is kind of missing the point. Abuse victims often love their partners before they have to leave, if they can. Relationships that were founded not on love in the past can grow into love at some point, though it wasn't guaranteed. Even today, you can still love your ex-husband as family, while knowing you no longer love him as a romantic partner and that you definitely shouldn't be together at all.

To answer the question about my family: (Keep in mind my family was poor)

Maternal grandmother - I doubt it, if she's honest, but maybe she did in some way. Her husband was emotionally and physically abusive - my mom had to get her uncle to come intervene to get him off of her when he would beat her. He raped her from what I gathered from an account of what my mom told me when I was younger, and he came in and out of her life, providing no stability and just getting her pregnant and leaving her to raise children mostly alone. She had 6 children with him. She is deeply religious, uneducated with no career prospects, and divorce wasn't something she would have done because of the shame and it just wasn't what you did. My mother initially refused to say goodbye to him when he was on his deathbed, about to pass from cancer. She was so angry about her childhood, but my grandmother got her to say goodbye after all. I think the version of her today has more of a chance at leaving and finding a better life after divorce, although, abuse is always hard.

Paternal grandmother - I believe she loved him, but he was a deadbeat dad who barely worked and had an alcohol problem. She was the worker and held down the entire family on her own. He may have worked initially when they first met and she was young, not sure. I think women who feel empowered to divorce in today's society would have left him and found a better partner who can help provide for her life before having all 5 children by him. He seems like a nice man, but I'm not sure if he was ever abusive. My dad never mentioned that, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen, especially given the alcohol problem.

In my grandmothers' situations, it was also the conservative social values that shackled them to marriage - it wasn't just about survival for women back then, but about social shame and a stronger adherence to religion. The social shame and religion is what I believe kept my grandmothers in relationships that they could have left for better partnerships and better lives for their children. They also just didn't have as many opportunities as women and were not encouraged the way women are today to pursue existing career and educational opportunities. My maternal grandma grew up in the country in the south and dropped out in middle school. Just a different world, especially for women.

Aggressive_Grand_897 · 2023-03-20T22:48:13+00:00

They definitely love their spouse for the majority of people. There’s a ton of grand parents still married today. Whoever says otherwise are just assuming older women think the same as they do.

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KikiYuyu · 2023-03-20T21:00:30+00:00

I don't know if one of them did, because that grandpa was an abusive piece of shit who brought my dad along as an alibi when he went out to see prostitutes. They weren't even married when my dad was born, and he was the youngest.

My other grandpa could be an irritable grump, but he was a good guy. I'm pretty sure my grandma really did love him.

plumtastic · 2023-03-20T21:03:34+00:00

On one side my grandma absolutely adored grandpa, he was a sweet helpful man, very handsome, tall, and very industrious. They were the first in the village to get plumbing in the house etc. I remember him being very affectionate and kind to everyone, he never raised his voice. She was distraught and grieved for a long time when he died. I think they were in their late teens when they married and he died at 71

My other grandma was very stoic, grandpa on that side was a piece of work, he kept causing conflict with people then forcing the whole family to move. He beat my dad and uncles with a belt buckle. He watched his own father be executed by firing squad at the age of 10 (for being a teacher), the generational issues are pretty intense on that side. I think she tolerated him at the end, I don't know about when they met. She was respectful though, no henpecking and derogatory comments. Maybe she was afraid of him? If she was that didn't come across. A lot of men were useless wife beaters and alcoholics, and while he had is issues he was also very industrious, he built four houses from scratch just by himself and the help of his young sons. Maybe she appreciated him for that.

Cosima_Fan_Tutte · 2023-03-20T21:07:58+00:00

Paternal grandmother: Married in Russia in 1952 to an older man who was an outstandingly good match at the time: came back from the war in one piece, worked, didn't drink or smoke too much. They hated each other and started sleeping in separate beds early in the relationship. I don't remember them speaking to each other once when I was growing up. My grandmother had lost her boyfriend in the war, and my grandfather had lost his first wife. Today, he'd be placed on the spectrum or diagnosed with some sort of a mood disorder, and she was...not an easy or pleasant woman, but I suppose Russia 1924-1945 wasn't a great place to come of age.

Maternal grandmother: Married around the same time, same place. According to mom, my grandmother loved my grandfather very much and they had an affectionate marriage. Grandfather managed to avoid the war (prison for alleged anti- communist sabotage). He was handsome (can confirm from photos), good-natured, a jokester.

HentaiQueen0w0 · 2023-03-20T21:42:06+00:00

My grandparents did and still do love each other, but it was different for them.

My grandma had a rough life to begin with, but she never married my grandpa for financial security, safety, or any other reason. She married him out of love.

My grandpa was also doing well himself.

They live a wonderful life now, they’re not poor or rich. They have a garden of amazing herbs, fruits, and vegetables. They go to church together and do a lot of outdoor activities together.

They just love one another. And that happened because my grandma had the choice to love him and wasn’t forced to.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-03-20T21:55:07+00:00

Never really talked to my paternal grandmother about this, it seems like she loved my grandfather, she speaks fondly of him and that's a big thing for her. Given the fact that she's never said anything negative about the man, and she will passively-aggressively shit on you if you've displeased her in some way, I have to assume she was fond of him. She respected him, at least.

My maternal grandmother didn't really like my grandfather, but they were very different people and I can see why there wasn't a lot of love there. Grandpa was a super chill, relaxed, calm person, my grandmother was the exact opposite of that, shocker that they didn't get along. Do I think she loved him? Maybe early in their relationship, but definitely not later.

Both my grandmothers aren't easy people to get along with, but life in Russia and Eastern Europe back in the day was kind of shit, so I can't judge them too harshly for it.

nemma88 · 2023-03-20T22:05:55+00:00

I do not know about my paternal grandmother, my dad's dad died when he was young. She outlived another two husbands, her kids took care of her into old age.

My maternal grandparents yes I think so. They met as teens and my grandmother reminisces fondly, out in the countryside with her friend met and got a lift back home with two motorbikers.

She was independent though from the off (as I believe my great grandmother was), she was working and saving to visit Venice after seeing it on a post card and had enough by 17 (a lot of money back then), when my late grandfather expressed interest in joining her she agreed, but he better save fast because she wasn't going to put off her trip long.

I've mentioned before on here but she told him off when he sold his motorbike to buy an engagement ring. Having a vehicle represented freedom not many people had.

They visited Venice many times over the years, until his death around a decade ago.

didiinthesky · 2023-03-20T22:51:17+00:00

I honestly don't know, all my grandparents have been dead for quite some time. I do know my grandmother from my fathers side suffered from depressive episodes her entire life, and my grandfather was a very strict father who regularly beat my dad. I don't know how grandma felt about him though, maybe she loved him. I think she was very submissive and probably wouldn't have left even if she wanted to.

My other grandma had the misfortune of being a Catholic and thus wasn't allowed to use birth control, which lead to her having 12 kids and several miscarriages before the doctor said she HAD to start using birth control or she might die if she became pregnant again. Grandfather couldn't know because he would never have allowed it, so she had to hide it from him. Once again, I don't know if she loved him. I do think they married for love, but it definitely wasn't an easy marriage.

So yeah, they probably married for love, but that doesn't mean they had healthy, egalitarian relationships. They were all a product of the times they lived in.

Electronic-Poet-1328 · 2023-03-21T00:02:35+00:00

This doesn’t apply to my grandparents. Both sets of them seemed to really love each other and marry for love.

I do however think it’s a bit sad how much my grandmothers lives revolved around my granddads. Neither worked and they pretty much allowed my granddad’s to make all major life decisions.

One of my granddad’s died pretty young in his late 50’s and my grandma lived until she was 90, that would’ve been so hard. She never left the home he died in.

harmonica2 · 2023-03-21T00:29:37+00:00

Well as far as marrying for love versus marrying for survival people only say thewomen married for survival. Does that mean the men married for love back then?

anotherstarbuckeroos · 2023-03-21T00:36:26+00:00

My grandma loves my grandpa. She loves him so much she completely shuts down when people talk about his declining health and it's really sad.

That being said, I never saw my other grandma smile until her husband died.

medlabunicorn · 2023-03-21T00:39:04+00:00

My grandmother on one side put up with philanderering and emotional child abuse from my grandfather. She was good at forgetting and forgiving.

My grandfather on the other side put up with narcissism and social climbing from my grandma.

Catholic on both sides.

DeepHouseDJ007 · 2023-03-21T00:56:22+00:00

I hope all those guys on this sub who supposedly want “trad” relationships see this sub and realize that the old school relationships our grandparents and great grandparents had were far from ideal for the women and that most of them didn’t get married because they were in love, they just didn’t have much of a choice.

blackcatcabaret · 2023-03-21T00:59:48+00:00

Why does this question bother you? You're underestimating how many women are the way they are today because we grew up learning how awful our parents'/grandparents' marriages were for women. My entire childhood my mother and grandmother were strict with my education because they wanted me to have the opportunities and future that they didn't.

My grandma confided in me after my grandpa died. She said she has so many regrets about having to live her life only for someone else, but during her time there was no other choice. I loved my grandpa, but learned really quickly it wasn't a marriage I should strive for, and was in fact repeatedly warned not to pursue. My grandma did love my grandpa, but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a weight lifted off her shoulders when he died. I'll never forget her telling me very candidly how she feels like after all these years she can finally have a life for herself. She can finally do what she wants and I'm immensely happy for her.

I don't think grandmothers/mothers talk about this with their sons/grandsons because they don't have to. But they made sure to let their daughters know how lucky we are to have our own lives today, and how much they wish they had had the same.

MistyMaisel · 2023-03-21T01:09:04+00:00

I believe my father's parents genuinely loved each other and it's obvious to this day with both of them closing on death. I think their love is pretty rare and the one everyone is looking for. They genuinely seem made for each other.

My mother's parents, it's a lot harder to say. I do think they paired up more so from expectation and stayed together from expectation. I don't think if my grandmother had been born today she would have married.

I think the most accurate statement is that because women aren't expected to pair up and don't have to in order to survive, they are generally waiting longer to pair up and have higher expectations for the men they pair up with. I think this has left many younger men without women/wives as they aren't meeting those expectations.

But also, I think there's lots of stuff at play that wasn't when my grandmothers were selecting men. Per example, neither of my grandfathers are what I would necessarily describe as man-children and clearly were not in their younger days. To be sure, they have their flaws, but you'd never accuse either of them as having treated their wives like bangmaids, not lived up to expectations as fathers, providers, and husbands, or men who do nothing, can't fix anything, and expect their wives to be their mothers, mistresses, and providers. My father's father is still romancing my grandmother after 75+ years and while having Parkinson's. My mom's father is still providing for and care-taking my grandmother and never been a slouch.

riceweight · 2023-03-21T01:13:21+00:00

My maternal grandparents are really good together.

My grandpa is gentle, wise, and loving. Everyone in my family respects and loves him. My grandma is definitely wise and loving, but she’s a whoop ass and not gentle. My mom and her had a rough relationship because she was so strict with all her kids. She tells it like she sees it. Both my grandparents are very devoted to each other and do their best to care for their adult children and grandchildren. Now, my grandpa is old and blind and my grandma is still kicking, and she takes good care of him.

Marrying a Chinese woman pretty much ensures you’ll get a devoted and loving wife, but she’ll also call you out on shit all the time and she’s definitely the pants wearer.

I don’t think the historical stereotype of abusive husband/doormat wife exists in modern China. It’s a traditional society (heteronormative, women keep their own name but children get the man’s surname, strong emphasis on male providership) in that men seem to have headship in a household, but the real source of power is the woman. Both parties tend to go in eyes wide open without the illusion of “twue wuv” and each put in 100% that they can. Men who cheat or fail to provide are quickly shunned.

basteandpilled · 2023-03-21T01:31:43+00:00

My mother’s parents were probably in love - my grandmother could have married a higher earner and my grandfather cared for her through her dementia until her ALS got too bad. My father’s father was a dick and his mum took off, which would have been okay if they hadn’t already had children who she left with him.

doggiedoc2004 · 2023-03-21T02:13:05+00:00

One my others side my grandparents truly loved each other. They were like the couple in UP and were married for like 50 years. On my dads side my grandma ended up bitter and resentful of my grandfather. They tolerated each other but stayed in separate bedrooms for as long as I remember. It was palpable enough that even us as little kids could feel it. Divorce wasn’t really a thing. They were Catholic Mexican Americans.

CatchPhraze · 2023-03-21T02:18:14+00:00

At the end yes, at the beginning back when he used to leave her to deal with running a house full of kids and boarders and sit on his ass? No. He loved her tho. But he was helpless without her.

Lanzienator · 2023-03-21T02:19:14+00:00

My maternal grandma loved my grandpa. He saved her from an abusive first marriage, providing protection to her and her kids. He was a good man.

My paternal grandpa was a violent monster so....I'm glad she's finally found happiness with her current husband who she adores, who is also a good man.

Redditcritic6666 · 2023-03-21T03:33:33+00:00

This was back in China during the cultural revolution: Grandma married Grandpa because Grandma's family used to be landlords and business owners. Communist took everything and she was classified as a "black type". Meanwhile Grandpa's family was just farmers and is classified as a "red type". It's more of a marriage of convinence so Grandma can stay out of the communist government's crosshair.

pending_ending · 2023-03-21T04:25:18+00:00

i have no idea, that's painful to think about though. both of them were/are extremely toxic people. i'm sure there was some kind of emotional bond, but those aren't that rare. you'd have to define "love" because it can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

UnapologeticFoodSnob · 2023-03-21T21:09:21+00:00

I don't think boomers paired up to 'survive" but life was extremely difficult if they didn't marry. They also had to marry young and there wasn't a lot of time to date around and find what we consider 'love'. This meant they often married and had kids with the wrong person, and it was difficult to end the relationship because of finances and social stigma. Because of this, they often dragged out unhappy marriages.

One Grandma married her husband young and had kids young (as was expected). He joined the army and cheated on her. She even hired a detective to find this out, and then divorced him using with the detectives help. She raised three kids through the 80s by herself which I think she found hard. However she never remarried.

My other grandma literally married a nonce. She didn't know this until she was an old woman herself but I never saw them show love and affection towards each other. Their relationship seemed very much like a business transaction.

ResponsibleUmpire752 · 2023-03-22T06:30:15+00:00

My grandparents were in love in all ways for more than 50 years.

satisfiedmind- · 2023-03-22T07:40:52+00:00

I think my grandmother did, they seemed quite in love. I don’t think her mother did love my great grandfather though. He was a horrible man from what I’ve heard.

icepug3 · 2023-03-24T12:10:32+00:00

Idk about my fathers' side, but grandma on my mothers' side definitely did.

My grandfather was a player until he met my grandmother, and my grandma, for some reason, fell for him. She was a doctor so not many men wanted her because of her high-status job if that makes sense. They seemed happy and in love. My grandfather would always stick up for her; she loved that. She passed when she was 50 and my grandfather really missed her, which was shown when he cried when he saw a picture of me (I am a copy of my grandma). I really think there was love in their relationship, which wasn't often at the time but they managed to do it.

Title	Q4W: Do you believe/know/think that your grandmothers have never loved your grandfathers?
Author	abaxeron
Upvotes	63
Comments	232
Date	March 20, 2023 7:51 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11wto05/q4w_do_you_believeknowthink_that_your/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4w-do-you-believeknowthink-that-your-grandmothers.1186921 https://theredarchive.com/post/1186921

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