Women simultaneously dislike men approaching because they feel treated as "romantic prospects" instead of "regular people" yet dread the moment a male friend would suggests something more

Vlad_The_Great_2 · 2024-07-18T12:48:18+00:00

All you have to do is be attractive. A lot of things women on Reddit say stops mattering if they meet an attractive guy. Go to bars, clubs, and concerts with an attractive guy as a friend and you will see. I also learned that most dating advice on Reddit is bad. Unless everyone knows the full story, people will give you the most generic and or unhelpful advice. I don’t recommend being friend first, that’s terrible advice. Make your intentions known immediately so you don’t waste time. If you have a friend and you naturally develop feelings for them, that’s normal. Shoot your shot but be ready for the friendship to potentially fall apart immediately after. Talk to a lot of women and be able to take rejection with grace.

thedarkracer · 2024-07-18T09:24:39+00:00

Two rules of dating for men:

Be attractive
Don't be unattractive.

You can go straight to flirting following these two rules.

Plus they regularly say that they drop clues, what are we on? A treasure hunt? We invented languages for God's sake and have more than 100 of them, yet even though they are better at expressing feelings and more emotionally mature, they can't put feelings of attraction into words, weird.

MikeArrow · 2024-07-18T09:32:37+00:00

I've always struggled with this, because even if I wasn't necessarily interested right away - interacting with a girl I find physically attractive who seems to enjoy my company is almost guaranteed to result in me developing a crush on them.

driggsky · 2024-07-18T16:12:58+00:00

Its hard navigating this shit as a man

Went on many dates with girls and tried ‘connecting’ by getting to know her personally. Realized i didn’t create enough sexual chemistry and lost the girl

Then went on many dates where I try to flirt more and create more chemistry. Sometimes it works, sometimes girls really dislike it.

Its really hard to know what the truth is because i know that women would of course be turned on if i was very handsome and i could get away with a lot. But im not. Im average at best so i have to constantly do a lot of mental work to try to ‘create chemistry’ with her.

Just went on a date with a girl i thought was amazing. She seemed shy and also had a lot of cute girl energy. Problem was i was in the mindset to at least try to sexualize the convo a little because in the past i ended up with girls saying they see me platonically because i didnt make a move. I end up kissing the girl at the end of the date. She ghosts me the day after.

Its so hard to know how ‘masculine’ to act and when. And when you should just be ‘connecting’ or talking normally. Im positive me and her would have ‘connected’ a lot because we had great banter before the date. But now im thinking i overdid the flirting. Maybe she was one of those girls that didn’t like that stuff. But again, i feel 99% of people want to be turned on during a date. So maybe i just wasnt attractive to her and my advances were received poorly

Shits easier when you’re just attractive. You dont have to recalculate every move to figure out if you’ve created ‘chemistry’.

The reason women and men have a bad time dating is because women are aroused by certain masculine traits but then also want to feel the friendship and safety too. Its extremely difficult for men to make women feel all of that and do the dance unless he’s attractive already. Its doable but just a big task

And lol i can already see the women coming in with bullshit advice like ‘be yourself’ and ‘don’t put on an act’. Because they want naturally masculine men who naturally knows how to arouse her as if that’s doable for most men lol. Women dont have a clue on how much work and effort men do to try to impress them. They just receive and review us as we constantly carry interactions and risk embarrassing ourselves

YveisGrey · 2024-07-18T12:47:18+00:00

The answer is women are choosy. That’s what it all comes down to. And they are choosy regardless of men’s approach. If she isn’t interested in you or attracted to you it doesn’t matter if you were her friend first or flirted with her from the jump. She’s just not that into you.

If she ended up dating her friend that because she liked him, if she gave a cold approach a chance that’s because she liked him. There’s really no formula to getting a woman interested in you she either finds you attractive or she doesn’t.

As for why women complain? It’s because they don’t like being approached by men they aren’t interested in. Rejecting men is awkward and invites the possibility of hostility from the man.

Hot-Law2682 · 2024-07-18T14:48:53+00:00

Women have multiple friends. Some of her friends she is more willing to date, some of them there is 0 attraction. The outcome depends on that.

Axeml · 2024-07-18T17:59:19+00:00

I’ll said what I said before: the sooner you accept that women don’t find most men attractive, your life will improve dramatically.

Ruined the friendship™️ or “omg he respected me as a person first!” Depends on if you’re attractive or not.

Whiskeymyers75 · 2024-07-18T11:45:56+00:00

They also bitch when men they’re attracted to don’t make the first move. We literally can’t win.

washington_breadstix · 2024-07-18T13:19:02+00:00

Because this is straight-up bullshit:

women: "all my relationships started as friends first"

I've literally never seen a relationship where the two people started as friends. And by "as friends", I mean a full-fledged friendship: two people who hang out 1-on-1 regularly and do platonic activities together. I think it's very rare for people to successfully parlay that into something sexual. There has to be sexual chemistry from the beginning.

"We started out as friends" seems to actually mean "I found my partner through my social circle". It doesn't mean that the nature of the relationship between those two specific individuals was ever purely platonic. The point is that she met the dude in a context where there was already some level of social vetting, which made her more comfortable in reciprocating the dude's sexual advances – but the flirting/advances were there from day one.

Upset_Material_3372 · 2024-07-18T18:35:24+00:00

It’s the same as the start of any relationship: the guy has to pass the very high and narrow standard women have whether he’s a friend or not.

T-Rex-The-Alpha · 2024-07-18T10:45:12+00:00

She wants a guy to get it.

TapZealousideal5974 · 2024-07-18T10:23:44+00:00

Rules 1 & 2. A male friend suggesting more is romantic and what she was waiting for all this time... if he's Chad.

A bold and handsome stranger shamelessly flirting with her aggressively and sexually is romantic as well.

Aafan_Barbarro · 2024-07-18T09:00:49+00:00

There are two outcomes for two types: attractive friend and unattractive friend.

Professional_Chair28 · 2024-07-18T12:14:56+00:00

Like most things this distinction relies on your ability to read human behavior.

The clear difference between those two is mutual chemistry.

Involved_Currently · 2024-07-18T10:47:22+00:00

I struggle with this more regarding approaching as a stranger.

In friendships you have enough personal contact to feel it out. But approaching acquaintances, collegues, people you see regularily in your neighbourhood, at classes or hobbies is sometimes unclear to me.

I think the "Im just here to do X and live my life and not to date" is just such a hella discouraging thing to say. All of us as a generation, complain about not meeting more people organically and being dependent on the apps. Most female dating advice is, put yourself out there/just go talk to her/we wish more people would just approach us, and then on the other hand its women cant live their life without being hit on constantly with an irritated look as if men are the most oblivious inconsiderate horny and single minded idiots (not far from the truth).

I cannot stress this enough, I dont want to harrass and bother anybody. I dont know how many other men are hitting on you. Have approached you today. Obviously I cant sit around staring at you and observing you either, because I dont want to be a creep.

I guess the answer is as always: try and make eye contact and try and suss out if there is interest there or not. And there wont be most of the time, but I do believe more women would like to be approached than do and I would like to approach more women than I do. The eye contact thing is just really challenging and sometimes people are just stuck in their own world (including myself) and miss opportunities that they may have had interest in. I dont know any other way and would like some guidance.

So women; is it imba or do I suck?

reignoferror00 · 2024-07-18T17:21:29+00:00

To point number one - the vast majority of time: No, no they didn't. They often started out as acquaintances or friends of friends, then into dating and a relationship. Looking back they might say they were friends first, but that likely isn't true and is just some distorted perspective (or having a vastly different idea of what qualifies as a friend).

Woman generally are a lot different from men, once you're firmly put in the "friend box" with her, unless there are some really drastic changes or you're extremely exceptional, you aren't considered "romantically" at all.

McPigg · 2024-07-18T19:38:03+00:00

Yeah no shot women will always find a way to complain lol, ignore what they claim they "want" or not want, do what actually works

goo_wak_jai · 2024-07-19T01:32:26+00:00

There's no single answer that fits all women, most women, or even a lot of women the vast majority of the times. Nevertheless, more often than not, women themselves don't know what they want even though from a purely objective standpoint they ALL universally agree on 'the common standard' of what makes a partner desirable, sexually and for LTR.

Get used to that paradox because for men, this is incredibly confusing (and infuriating). Body language is king. Everything else is just smokes and mirrors. And depending on how socially adjusted you are from the beginning, it might take you a few tries to notice the common pattern. That pattern is definitely there. Once you see it, you cannot unsee it. And then from there, you decide whether you still want to engage in that 'dance' or do something else where the ROI is better in most respects.

ConanTheCybrarian · 2024-07-18T09:42:03+00:00

These are different women

different women have different preferences

some women enjoy being approached
- some (like me) politely tolerate it as long as the person is respectful
some hate ever being approached
still others only like it in certain situations
some women never see friends in any other way
others prefer or even need to be friends first

learn to better understand women- generally- by being actual friends with some women. NOT "friendzoned" friends, not "I hope we get drink and hookup someday" friends; actual, real friends

learn about individual women from the experts- themselves - each individual woman is the only expert on her own self You cannot apply generalized or average data to an individual woman and expect her to align with it

januaryphilosopher · 2024-07-18T12:51:32+00:00

The normal way would be to meet as acquaintances and then build up the romantic advances as you get to know each other. It's called the talking phase, I'm told by older generations that they call it flirting or courting.

MistyMaisel · 2024-07-18T16:48:43+00:00

I've said it once, I'll say it again: be flirty friends, not platonic nothing there friends. You can flirt without going further and you can flirt while getting to know someone. Life isn't binary.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-07-18T09:07:24+00:00

Read the room, dude. Women will give you cues on if they’re interested or not.

Women are just fine with being approached, and they’ll telegraph it with their body language—in the right setting.

Jello_Vivid · 2024-07-18T11:56:45+00:00

I don't know many men at all that cold approach. Dating happens usually online or through third spaces such as work or uni. It can happen sometimes at a bar or club but these establishments seem to be closing in my area. My advice for men is just to be cautious and use dating apps, I personally don't think it's worth the risk of cold approaching.

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cookt3714 · 2024-07-18T12:50:09+00:00

This!!!

bluestjuice · 2024-07-18T14:09:47+00:00

The short answer to this dilemma is that friends-to-lovers arcs are lovely but perilous, because if the interest is one-sided it’s going to be rough. No two ways around it really.

Does that mean don’t try it? No. But when it goes wrong (and some of the time it’s going to go wrong), people are going to feel hurt and upset, so no surprise that that spills over onto the internet.

JadeGrapes · 2024-07-18T17:55:25+00:00

"Because they can't get turned on by someone they don't know"

This is faulty, that is only demi-sexual people, a subset of asexual people.

A better statement is "It's easy for strange men to spook me, and being afraid dries up the horny"

No_Yogurt_4602 · 2024-07-18T18:19:38+00:00

The homogenization running throughout this post is also the reason you're perceiving a contradiction here, tbh.

A guy you're friends with who you'd want to date asking you out is awesome; a guy you're friends with who you wouldn't want to date asking you out is, yeah, probably ruining that friendship. Also, generally, the nature of those two cases of friendship are subtly different even before the asking-out happens. There's also just the fact that, no, not all women say that their relationships started out as friendships, nor do all women actively prefer that.

ta06012022 · 2024-07-18T18:24:39+00:00

women: "all my relationships started as friends first"

also women "POV: He's about to ruin your friendship"

Yes, different women have different opinions.

ThanosSnapsSlimJims · 2024-07-18T18:25:21+00:00

There was a video a little while ago where most women in it said not to approach, and only one did. After the woman got arrested in PA recently, it's best not to approach.

Diamond-Breath · 2024-07-18T19:48:50+00:00

It depends on whether we are actually compatible and if we both find each other attractive. I think the perfect balance is getting asked out by a man and taking things slow knowing each other. That way you get the best of both worlds, a solid foundation on friendship and romantic interest.

serpensmercurialis · 2024-07-18T20:03:21+00:00

also women "POV: He's about to ruin your friendship"

Are you trolling? No shit they don’t like it when male friends act like that tiktok. When guys are being weird and obsessive in a one-sided way it’s worse when they’re your friend because they presumably know you, but are flat out ignoring the fact you aren’t returning interest. It’s actually more creepy than if they weren’t your friend, because they should know you well enough to know how you feel unlike a stranger.

Are you just misunderstanding that this person is unattractive to her and there is no flirting/courting strategy that will change that?

iamrickian · 2024-07-18T20:49:51+00:00

I'm actually just curious. Can you link me to videos where women said men shouldn't go straight into flirting? That would be great.

Anyway, here's my two cents regarding the link you provided above. Women find it creepy when a man isn't straightforward with this intention. And it's obvious by the man's lack of cohesion with his words and his body language.

His words implied: We're just here to chill as friends.

His body language implied: I want to lick your pussy and slurp all the juices lmaoooo

You see my point. It's creepy because the signals that he is emitting are going in different directions.

If you don't believe me, just pay attention to horror movies. Directors do this intentionally where, on the one hand, you'll hear a lullaby in the background (which supposedly soothes a baby that's been taken care of) and then an eerie environment that keeps you guessing what happens next. That's creepy.

That's the impression of the guy in the TikTok video.

Besides, if you worry too much about what women want, then it just means you are led by women (and maybe you actually prefer it to be that way).

You want to be in a position where you lead, and she wants to follow you. Maybe you do something that you're enthusiastic about, and the positive emotions just transfer to her. Whether you want to see the next Marvel movie or you just want to grab her legs and scan your tongue inside her pussy lips. Doesn't matter.

Wow. That "two cents" was actually a lot longer than I expected. Anyway, please provide me the link. Mwa

HighestTierMaslow · 2024-07-18T20:51:22+00:00

I never dreaded people approaching me. Even if I didnt like the guy I found it flattering. What I dreaded is some men that dont take rejection well.

I also do not dread male friends doing what you describe. I dread when some of them dont take the rejection well and then completely drop our friendship in a disrespectful manner.

In both instances, more so the second, I usually could predict who would not take rejection well.

marcopolo3112 · 2024-07-18T20:54:33+00:00

Yes women make no sense what else is new. Don’t listen to women about dating as a guy you’ll just end up confused. We play different games

NeatEngineer5623 · 2024-07-19T12:01:58+00:00

Oof. Now imagine this being made and the guy was a chad. Wait, nvm different rules apply.

Imagine this being made about an average woman. The comments would be chalk and cheese levels of comparison to what you see in that videos comments.

Boxisteph · 2024-07-19T22:06:14+00:00

The conundrum.

A cold approaching means a guy saw your face and body and thought 'I want to tap that's so goes up to you to see if he can. It's insulting and objectifying.

The other end of the spectrum. They good friend that betrays a woman's trust. They guy who got so close to her she saw him as a brother/family member actually the entire time saw her ina sexual light and was taking his time ploting to get into her pants. He never liked or cared about her. It was just the long game. It was always about the sex.

So men, as with everything the sweet spot is in the middle. She needs to know you well enough that she can Be attracted to you as a person, not a body and not a face. She also needs to assume the same for you. You know some of her personality quirks and have some attraction to her as a person, not just a body. This is the point t of 'we were friends first' and the place where you should be flirting from.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-07-18T11:25:10+00:00

When she’s shown zero signs of attraction to him and he clearly acts in his singular, self-absorbed, one-sided attraction, she knows he’s built an entire Hallmark romance in his head with zero disregard for her feelings.

Meaning he was never a friend and only cares about himself.

attendquoi · 2024-07-18T14:04:00+00:00

I don't understand why you see these as contradictory. As a woman, I hate both for the same reason

ilike18yoblackpussy · 2024-07-18T13:06:38+00:00

So don't take romantic advice from women or from gay ass Jorobe type internet narcissist males.

BOOM! Problem solved.

Next question.

housemouse139 · 2024-07-18T17:06:05+00:00

The real problem with men confessing their feelings is that they need to talk less and take action more. You're coming across as very feminine by confessing your love.

Treehugger4422 · 2024-07-19T06:15:43+00:00

Hi I’m a young women who I think most people would consider attractive in the cute sense and have some thoughts on this. First of all I think that many women find men in general unnerving because of trauma that many of us have experienced (or the trauma of our female friends and family members). They feel uncomfortable with men flirting with them in the beginning because they don’t know you and then keep you on as a friend if you stick around to not hurt your feelings even if they dislike you very much in the romantic sense. I personally don’t like this, and have observed that I have done the same. However, I will that the social structure that women have is often pretty different. We don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings and we have often been made to feel guilty for speaking our mind (at least in my particular case having been raised by an abusive father who thought all women were idiots).

However, I will say that we don’t always nix all men all the time. In my case for example I became friends with my now husband and immediately fell for him hard. Keep in mind that he’s average looking, not charismatic, and not rich. What he has going for him that I adore so much is the fact that he has the most empathy and genuine kindness of anyone I know, he’s truly a good person and very thoughtful, he’s trustworthy and loyal, he’s very wise, and the observations he makes about the world make everything seem so much brighter. He has many other things about him that I love too. Anyways, I adored him and he was too shy to approach me so I spent a year working on him, flirting with him, and all around letting him know that I wanted him while still letting him make the first move so that I would know he wanted a romantic relationship too. I made sure not to pressure him, just leave the offer on the table. Anyways, we have been married almost two years now and he is the best thing in my life.

I’ve never been in your shoes as I am a woman who met my husband young. However, I advise you to look into how women experience the world and particularly at how they experience being around men. Try to empathize with many of our collective anxiety towards men and be respectful of that and our boundaries. Also I strongly advise you to not put all of us into a box because many women do different things. Don’t only befriend us for potential romance either. We tend to warm up to people better when we can sense that they just enjoy us as people, not what they could potentially get from us as women. It’s not like we need to bought or like we are a mathematical equation to be solved. Relationships aren’t so manufactured like that. Anyways, that all I can say based on my experiences. Best of luck!

antarctica6 · 2024-07-18T12:53:03+00:00

I've brought this up before but being friends/acquaintances/colleagues/random first has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

All that matters is that she's attracted to you in the first place. You could be her bestie for months and ask her out and if she's into you, she's into you. If she's not into you, you're a scheming Machiavellian creep who was just "trying to get in her pants" this whole time 😂

GymBroTRT · 2024-07-18T14:05:23+00:00

The reason so many women dread being approached is because men just do it wrong. Like their entire approach to approaching is wrong. I can go into it, but here are the highlights:

Men will typically approach with a specific end goal of sex, thus objectifying the woman or making her feel sexualized. In other words, he is there to extract sex out of her and in his mind that usually means acting overly sexual or trying hard to impress her in hopes that she will then give him sex.

While it is true that the purpose of a relationship between a man and a woman is sex, here is why the above approach backfires. If a man has decided he wants sex without knowing anything about the woman, what does that say about him? It says that he doesn’t actually care about her as a person, it shows that his only value is that she is attractive to him enough, it shows that he is needy and treats her like a trophy, it shows that he doesn’t find anything special or interesting about her, it shows that he probably doesn’t get much sex.

Before you all pile on me and call me a blue pill cuck and throw some straw man argument that the alternative to this must be to act like her best friend and then jump her bones one day while she’s drunk or alone with you, I’m begging you to hear me out.

I will offer you a much better alternative, that may require you to change how you view the world, women and yourself. How about, instead of making it your ultimate goal to extract sex from a woman, why don’t you make your enjoyment the ultimate goal? What does this mean?

It means deciding what you want, other than sex. Who do you want this sex with? What type of woman do you want it with? What qualities must she have? The point is, how can you even decide to have sex with a woman without qualifying her and vetting her first?

See, women have the right idea. They act like “this guy has to prove himself that he is worthy of me for me to even talk to him”. It’s a great frame, so why not use it on them. It’s such a revolutionary idea, isn’t it! To approach someone not to try and extract sex from them, but to see if they are worthy of your time and if they fit the criteria that you are looking for in a woman. And yes, this criteria may and should include whether she’s good in the sack.

The reality is, being discerning and qualifying women is of in itself attractive. When you are qualifying and vetting, the other person usually assumes the role of proving themselves to you. If you assume the role of trying to prove yourself to them, they will be vetting you and qualifying you. And you don’t want that. Being discerning shows that you value yourself, that you have high self esteem, that you are a man of high quality and standards and what woman wouldn’t want that?

Understand that 99.9999% of experiences women have with men approaching are one of those two scenarios:

Guy A walks up to her and says:

“You are the most beautiful woman in this place, heck…you are the most beautiful woman I have ever seen. I’m so lucky to be talking to you…I will eat 10 feet of your shit just to see the hole it came out of”.

And this of course is stuff she’s heard all before, especially if she’s conventionally attractive, except maybe for that last part. But none of this is attractive to any woman, who certainly doesn’t want some guy who is ready bend himself over to satisfy her every whim.

The other guy, guy B, usually approaches with something like this:

“I’m the most amazing guy you have ever met, I’m in shape, I’m rich, people around here know me, I’m kind of a big deal and oh my gosh, your eyes are the exact same color as my brand new Porsche!”

And of course this is not all that attractive to most women who have also heard all of this above. But if the man is impressive enough, they may take him for a ride and let him buy them nice things for some time before they get bored of him.

So here is the alternative approach. You walk up to a woman because there is something about her that you find interesting. Maybe it’s her look, her style, her energy, her vibe, her smile, her feet, whatever. Instead of instantly deciding that you NEED to have sex with her without any concern for who she is as a person, how about you reserve your judgment until you have gotten to know her. And not only know her, but you have thoroughly vetted her to see if she’s nice, interesting, charming, not annoying, adventurous in bed? And only then, decide if you want to sleep with her or not.

It may be shocking to some of you but doing just that will make you not a 20% or a 5% man. It will make you a 0.0001% man.

insert_quirky_name_0 · 2024-07-18T10:16:47+00:00

OP you know that TikTok isn't real life right...? You know that women aren't a hive mind that all agree on everything right...? You know that some people are morons and will often hold two contradictory opinions depending on which opinion is most beneficial to them in the given moment and this isn't something unique to women right...?

Just ignore the idiotic ragebait videos and use some common sense. So long as you approach women (friends or strangers) in a socially and emotionally intelligent way then you should be fine.

SaBahRub · 2024-07-18T14:42:22+00:00

I fail to see the difference in those lines of reasoning

Sexualization is sexualization. Friendship doesn’t change that

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