The gender war epidemic

AlmostKindaGreat · 2025-09-08T02:57:04+00:00

I'll start by saying that I'm on the more liberal side of things. I vote partially on women's issues. I believe striving for equality is a responsibility for everyone and we're not quite there yet.

Despite being more aligned with liberals on almost every issue, having mostly liberal friends, and spending the most time in that culture, something bothers me about it. There is almost no amount of negativity about men in discourse that is not happily tolerated. Generalizations about how horrible men are run rampant. Not only that, but if you ask people not to make negative blanket generalizations about men they blast you as just a #NotAllMen troll who hates women. It's obvious that the left has alienated young men and this is why. We need to do better to win them back.

My point is that, even though I am aligned with feminists (and consider myself one, really) and vote for women's issues, I don't dare to express any opinion that doesn't align 100% with liberal/feminist orthodoxy. If you disagree even 2% you're hated as much as someone who disagrees 100%. There is no sense of proportion.

In order to express opinions as innocuous as "Negative generalizations about men are harmful" or "Men are falling behind in some areas and we should think about solutions" you have to be in some kind of men's group where these opinions are tolerated. Now, this is changing somewhat recently as Democrats and the left are scrambling to stop the exodus of men from the party and the movement, but this is how it's mainly been for the last couple decades. There are men's groups that are not hateful, but clearly some a lot of these manosphere places are, in my opinion.

So, yeah that's the appeal of this manosphere stuff. It's a place where men can talk candidly about these things. Clearly there's often misogyny too. It can get really nasty. But at least you can even just advocate for men, in a not hateful way, without fear of being shouted down.

That's most of it. Being able to discuss things without being policed. But, of course, sometimes policing (moderation in subreddits, for example) keeps things under control and from spiraling into a big hatefest. That's the balance that is often not preserved. I'm sure you know of women's spaces where that is true as well.

Edit: I forgot to mention, I think it's awesome that you care about people hating on men and recognize the harm. Thank you for your empathy and understanding. It's feels so rare and we need so much more of it, in both directions. Please don't let this place get you jaded.

EducationPatient4622 · 2025-09-08T10:58:15+00:00

You are basically saying "please stop cause its getting big and im scared"

Maybe this hard talk is what we need as a society to make it better.

Non violent conflict is sometimes required to find solutions.

swapnil123481 · 2025-09-08T05:42:10+00:00

Manosphere will validate your emotions and soothe you. It's not uncommon for men to seek help on the internet, and when looking for it, you encounter the red pill. It has it's benefits if you think about it.

FrankZapper13 · 2025-09-08T05:20:20+00:00

After debating and observing some of the posts on here, I gotta say that it's actually scary seeing all these conspiracy theories made by men against women

The fact that you can't see the insanity from women to men here also, is a serious issue. Like the women here regularly say how all men are horrible monsters who only exist to make women's lives worse in every way, and you think that's a reasonable thing to believe?

But to answer your question at the end, the manosphere is attractive to these boys and young men because they notice that women are human beings, capable of all the bad things men are. Yet the rest of society, especially liberal society, gaslights them to think that women never do anything wrong and if they do anything wrong to a man he deserved it, and if he didn't deserve it then it's actually a man's fault that she did it. Essentially it's the narcissist's prayer. And the manosphere is the only place where people recognize this issue, granted they go way too far in response. Honestly if my mom wasn't such an honest feminist who holds women accountable I'd probably be in the manosphere with them. All these guys need is recognition that what they experience is real and people can show any sympathy to them. Imagine that, all this incel shit could go away tomorrow if people treated the boys and men in their lives with the same compassion and care they treat women with. But they refuse to do that at all, wonder why that is

Ultramega39 · 2025-09-08T00:57:28+00:00

Your question is better suited for the redpill side of this community as the manosphere is something that is commonly associated with the redpill ideology.

I personally don't have much to say about the manosphere. But I do think that many people (especially bluepill women on this subreddit) wrongly assume that people gravitate towards manosphere stuff for seemingly no reason. The cold hard truth is that they find manosphere stuff appealing for the same reason that some women gravitate towards following toxic "dating" influencers.

Livid-Log7463 · 2025-09-08T02:12:24+00:00

Being excluded from any form of romantic relationships is just about the worst single thing that can happen to a person, so expecting men to not be upset about it or talk about it is pretty unrealistic, and since more men are increasingly excluded more of this should be expected.

pachacuti092 · 2025-09-08T00:23:03+00:00

Lol, I do agree with your premise that the men who are terminally online and super into the manosphere subculture need to touch grass. That being said, the manosphere itself is most def not a monolith but is in fact, incredibly broad and encompasses everything from red pill, PUA, male self-improvement/dating coaches to MRAs and the Black Pill/"incel" subcultures. I do think the manosphere has problematic elements, but I cringe when ppl boil it down to just "Andrew Tate incel shite" as it is a hasty generalization that lacks nuance and is extremely misinformed. If we're gonna actually tackle these problems, we gotta at least understand the different parts of the manosphere.

That being said, I was never super into red pill stuff, but as an autistic guy who was kinda socially awkward, I had to go on the manosphere to learn tips about dating, improving my looks, increasing my confidence, etc.

WanabeInflatable · 2025-09-08T09:14:24+00:00

I understand OPs motivation and support it.

Nevertheless this war didn't start in the void. Men listened for this ambient misandry, endured discrimination while being told they are privileged.

Finally men started to fight back. And suddenly this is called out like a bad behavior. Nobody cared while men were on receiving end and endured this silently.

Gender war sadly will continue until society learns and changes. In particular there must be purge of political leaders, academia and media pundits that promoted misandry. For this to happen some pain must be inflicted first, including by voting for populists and contrarians.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2025-09-08T00:05:56+00:00

Hey there. I don't really like the term manosphere, since it conflates very disparate groups, ranging from people like me who just want to end misandry and ensure that men have equal rights, to reactionary weirdos who think women should have their rights taken away.

Anyway, I'm very happily married and I just want fairness on both sides. I think men's issues have been ignored by society and governments for a very long time, and I want to see that change.

I agree that hate is not a productive approach.

That said, since I started coming to this sub, despite being happily married, it has really kind of broken my brain to see how much hatred and antipathy a non-trivial number of women feel for men.

I know men have not been perfect, but I feel like the arc of the last century, with occasional setbacks, has bent strongly towards men showing increasing understanding and consideration towards women in law and society. I figured that this would be reflected in women having more positive opinions of men than ever in history, so seeing all this hatred towards my sex that I was completely unaware of was quite a whiplash to be honest.

Anyway, I hope we can bury the hatchet and make things fair for both sides within the next 20 years or so.

Ego73 · 2025-09-08T00:11:18+00:00

I've just had it with being demonised for the fact of being a man. Society is massively biased against masculinity and I'm not willing to go along with it.

James_M_Croft · 2025-09-07T23:58:38+00:00

TL:DR. Ever heard of it? It is part of the redditquette. None has the time to read all that.

Also, you are assuming a lot, men here are discussing solutions and models to solve issues, While you are just trying to dismiss or diagnose, in the wrongful assumption that the mainstream lies are useful. Which is part of the reason so many do not consider women's inputs in dating.

We enjoy the manosphere because it works, it is sincere and predict well the behavior of both women and men in this society. it is a rather bleak way to see the world, Yeah, but it is also the closest to correct. We are tired of the obvious lies and gaslight. We want actual solutions. And part of it, is The Red Pill.

N_Count_Council · 2025-09-08T02:34:28+00:00

The appeal is men trying to help each other and women get mad that redpill works on them

DzejSiDi · 2025-09-08T00:50:57+00:00

seeing all these terms, "chads, hypergamy,Alpha beta, biological clock,dating market" etc.. seems insane.

Still better than "integral", "lim", "cotangens", "Hamiltonian path", "Radon measure" and so on and so forth in this ugly subject called math.

Since every branch of knowledge has its own terminology, I don't think pill-lango is particularly scary or insane.

and sometimes I get posts from women who also seem to hate men on my timeline ;

You're at least decade behind "the meta" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/03/bahar-mustafa-charges-dropped-killallwhitemen-row

When I see men saying that "all women are hypergame" I'm just super confused, because I see women say the same stuff about men, in a different font.

*hypergamous. And without any specific example we can't comment, proper generalisations are really more true than not.

do you think that ALL short men are lonely ?

Nah, noone thinks that. But pick your ten coupled friends and get average height of their boyfriends and THEN compare this score to average male height in your country.

rethorics and propaganda just seems to be algorithms pushing insane content on hurt people

Yes, we're immune to "wHo HuRt YoU?!" propaganda, thx for trying.

I'm gonna end this by asking this, why is this manosphere mindset so attractive to you ? What makes you believe in it ? What's the appeal ? Thank you for reading.

Idk, maybe because, for example, community knows 100x more about life than one, college-aged girl? What do you think about that?

AntMan3298 · 2025-09-08T04:04:19+00:00

Bud… you’re behind.

I bought my land and my guns and learned how to grow food and live off the grid. Not exaggerating when I say doomsday prep shit.

Do I think what’s coming will be THAT bad? No, always over prepare… but make no mistake, it’s gonna be bad.

I said a while ago I see no end or peaceful result, I do not say this with any hatred of women—I know some might see my red pill tag and think so—I say this because the only reason I became “red-pilled” was I noticed a COMPLETE AND UTTER refusal of coming to the table from women.

This is how women felt, this is what they wanted, this is what they were going to do. Full stop, didn’t matter who it hurt, didn’t matter if it didn’t even benefit women in the long-term, all that mattered was what they wanted.

You can’t reason with that, you can’t have a conversation with that—most feminists think they’re knee-deep in a holy war against men.

Anyway, whether it’s “real” or chronically online or whatever; the degree is debatable, the direction is not.

Godspeed folks.

Iron-DBZ · 2025-09-08T01:24:46+00:00

These posts sound insane to most people that don't interact with redpill/blackpill/incel content.I think this subreddit is honestly scary sometimes, seeing all these terms, "chads, hypergamy,Alpha beta, biological clock,dating market" etc.. seems insane.

You're mixing some fairly mainstream terms with very niche ones. But on the whole I do agree that the language used here is very dehumanizing.

I think the main issue with generalizing and using caricatures of the opposite gender you're attracted to to explain "patterns or behaviors" is it makes everything transactional. The actual real world doesn't work like this, at least in relationships, actual stable strong relationships. In these relationships, it's more about chemistry, natural dynamics, natural attraction than the "dating market value" or whatever term you could use.

Putting the cart before the horse.

Most of the dysfunction in the dating culture that leads people to being critical of it is so because they're not in relationships to begin with.

I'm just super confused, because I see women say the same stuff about men, in a different font.

Projection can look like a reflection to those who aren't paying attention. It's not about what people say, it's about what they do.

And men do not put women through the kinds of scrutiny that they face from them. There is no balance or congruity here, the situation is deeply inequal. No comparison. Forget about tone and look at what the lived reality is. What the dating life of the average woman is vs the average man.

Do you think that self depracating will attract other people ? Friends ? Women ? Like what is the solution ? Moaning about how women only like "chads" and hate short men and just want your money ?

It's not a solution, there is no solution to men's dating problems that can come from themselves. It's up to women and women don't want to change. The only things men can fix are the problems they make for women, not the ones women make for them.

Women aren't the ones who are 50-60% single, they're getting what they want if and when they want it.

All that's left for men is either to either keep trying possibly in vain, or to talk about what hasn't worked among each other, about what they see, what they hear, what they've been told by women from their own mouths. It's not a conspiracy theory to simply acknowledge women's own words.

Women are responsible for what they put out into the dating world.

They've made a mess. Men have to talk about it. It's that simple.

why is this manosphere mindset so attractive to you

If you think manosphere is a descriptive term you're mistaken. That's a very broad idea that you're alluding to, and it doesn't mean what you think it means.

What makes you believe in it ?

I don't follow any of the influencers or podcasters that are often blamed for what I think you're trying to say.

I believe women. It's very easy to develop a critical eye for them just by talking to them and learning what they think. They'll tell you enough to work with, if you ask enough questions. Having known more than my fair share of women, the future seems bleak with them in the driver's seat on this.

They're not interested in getting to a place that's good for men too, and not just themselves.

BackgroundTime8298 · 2025-09-08T01:01:09+00:00

I realized that all these terms, black pill, alpha, sigma, hypergamy, is just astrology for men

ReasonConfident4541 · 2025-09-08T03:27:52+00:00

You're very lucky you

See growing up you don't need to worry about alpha beta , beta bux and all that you naturally would date and find men

Unfortunately a large portion of men are born undesirable so turn to things like this to try and make sense of society women and rejection

I hope you get reincarnated as a 5'5 balding ugly guy with a recessed jaw and you'll be posting on those subs you think are "crazy"

Kapoue · 2025-09-08T01:46:02+00:00

Social media in general is better at driving engagement through hate and provocative statements.

Most of what is said here would be true if people would put "some" in front of their take. "Some women are only after you for your money". "Some men will lie to get in your pants". Both are true but it will never drive engagement as well as outlandish claims.

I've tested the dating market recently and I rarely if ever encountered what I see claimed here. Some people were just jaded about dating apps and the repeated failures as is perfectly understandable.

It mainly exists inside social media bubbles.

I_Hate_Free_Money · 2025-09-08T02:00:46+00:00

Most men dont have avenues for proper release. Women bemoaning men has always been more socially accepted, and I'd hate to say it but it is for intended good reason. Growing up I remember going to Barnes and Noble to gather some self help books and most were geared towards women. Where have all the good men gone is a saying as old as time. Tik-tok is full of women saying some of the most despicable things about men.

>I'm gonna end this by asking this, why is this manosphere mindset so attractive to you ? What makes you believe in it ? What's the appeal ? Thank you for reading.

Mainly the mens rights aspect of it. I follow the Tinman and Mark Manson and I enjoy Chris WIlliamsons podcast. Chris really focuses on self improvement, accountability, but also calling a spade a spade. At 41 I'm too old for the Andrew Tate types and honestly, what they have to say makes me want to vomit. They are douchebags taking advantage of lonely young mens anger to their financial benefit.

Visual_Jellyfish8074 · 2025-09-08T06:30:30+00:00

The gender war is just an extension of the culture war which is entirely predicated on aesthetics and caricatures. It’s ultimately a distraction but yea, what the hell else are we gonna do with our time?

petellapain · 2025-09-08T11:01:46+00:00

Alright everyone this person is scared and finds these discussions scary and wierd. They also confirmed that all "normal" people don't think or talk about this stuff because of how wierd and scary it is. Let's pack it up and shut the sub down. All we needed to do was touch grass. Nothing to see here.

Is that the reaction you were hoping for?

Reasonable_Mouse789 · 2025-09-08T00:00:11+00:00

I think I just find psychology fascinating at the moment
I also have significantly more experience with random people of many backgrounds than what red pill coaches seem to have because of a sex addiction to both genders I lived with for a long time. I’m also kind of a sociopath. I like “seeing what happens”, and it’s interesting to see how schizoids think internally because of all the ones I’ve had to deal with in real life
I like guessing whether people on Reddit are AI or humans, and this sub has some interesting imbetweens where it’s hard to tell

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Prestigious-Delay759 · 2025-09-08T05:48:14+00:00

Yep it's not all men and it's not all women. But those men/women insist that it is "all"/"most" and deny that their "side" does it or is anything other than the victim.

It's really similar to the political polarization that's so rampant now a days. It's always only the other party that does bad things our side is blameless or is only fighting dirty because they've been so victimized that it's their only choice.

Even saying,

there're shit people doing shit things on all sides, and the obvious solution is to avoid stereotypes/biases/bigotry/etc. to look at people as individuals, to depolarize, seek common ground, stop blindly following knee jerk fearful/hateful responses will get you treated as at best naive, and at worst as a collaborator.

Worse yet these decisions are exploited and intentionally exacerbated by hostile powers.

It used to take years and a specific ideology was pushed (the USSR and the CCP openly admit to doing it in the past) but now since the connectivity is so high and lightly regulated in free nations they can just use bots to back real people in those nations. They just throw fuel on the fires of malignant hateful paranoid ideas/beliefs that naturally pop up in a nations population.

Here's a vid of them admitting to doing it in the past. They're absolutely doing the same thing now. The CCP talks about it publicly and calls it things like "soft war".

https://youtube.com/shorts/vle2-O1nums?si=6eBq7Girq8fae0ro

NelsonManswella · 2025-09-08T10:28:54+00:00

commenting to save. genuinely thoughtful post

BobtheArcher2018 · 2025-09-08T11:48:06+00:00

The manosphere says lots of stupid stuff. But it is ultimately not hamstrung by some fatally flawed ideological beliefs the way modern feminism is. Men are engaging fairly candidly and openly about gender dynamics. Female leadership is not, and a big part of this is that they cannot because they have flawed beliefs about the balance between nature and nurture in determining human behavior. There's also a tendency to obfuscate or hide behind the 'everyone is an individual' rhetoric that tries to prevent the use of any group patterns.

Logical_Breadfruit49 · 2025-09-08T12:12:24+00:00

Plenty of men and women you know in real life are red pilled. They just won't say it to your face because it's politically incorrect and they don't want to get canceled. The anonymity of the internet is where they can be honest with their opinions.

What specifically do you disagree with about the manosphere? Do you disagree that in short term mating, men tend to be hypogamous and women tend to be hypergamous? Do you disagree that there are deceitful men who lie in order to get sex from gullible women? Do you disagree that there are deceitful women who lie in order to get resources from simps? Do you disagree that men care a lot about paternity uncertainty and that women care a lot about investment uncertainty, and that this asymmetry significantly affects the dynamics of dating?

If you disagreed with any of the above statements, then you are yourself ignorant, and part of the reason why the manosphere exists.

But I agree that the algorithms have exacerbated things a lot. But the truth is, the red pill existed long before social media. Social media has just made it easier to talk about it and spread the ideas.

byzantiu · 2025-09-08T15:56:07+00:00

The manosphere offers two crucial things to young men: a community and an easy explanation for the difficulties and frustrations they experience.

In general, people as a whole are lonelier than they have been in the past. The pervasive influence of mobile phones, attention-commanding algorithms, video games, and bingeable television diminishes people’s desire to go out. This has, alongside online shopping, attenuated third spaces and community groups.

People are making fewer friends. They spend more time online, and as a result, feel lonelier. The manosphere provides a sense of community to young men who feel that alienation.

This rapidly digitizing world of ours also facilitates fewer relationships and less sex than ever before - for everyone. Young men often feel an intense sense of failure and loneliness if they don’t manage to build an intimate relationship with a lady. Intimacy is a fairly basic human desire. The failure to experience it creates a dilemma with varying solutions, depending on where we place blame.

If it is the fault of the young man, they must self-improve. Hit the gym. Improve their fashion. Read and practice their social skills. But this constant choir of self-improvement can be demoralizing, however healthy it might be. Let’s say I really improve and I still have no luck… what then?

Thus, the attraction of blaming women.

“Women’s standards are too high. It’s not your fault.” That’s a comforting thing to hear, and moreover, it means that you are not to blame for your lack of success.

Understand the toll it takes on a person’s self-esteem to constantly blame themselves. I think many men do adopt this and fall into a kind of fatalism - the black pill, as I understand it. Others want to preserve a shred of self-esteem and thus, blame women and/or society.

In truth, I think almost everyone is struggling to navigate this new, highly digitized social landscape in a healthy way.

You are right to point to reality, where many short men are happily married and tons of conventionally unattractive folks are in relationships. But our realities are increasingly mediated through predatory algorithms and social media. Without strong friend groups or family support, people become increasingly atomized and unable to shift perspective. They embrace what provides comfort, however unreal it might be.

abaxeron · 2025-09-08T22:25:51+00:00

I'm gonna end this by asking this, why is this manosphere mindset so attractive to you ?

It isn't. Other things that aren't attractive to me are ultimate fate of the Universe, second law of thermodynamics, existence of pathogens, and scarcity of resources. Which is not an excuse to believe that the world will be reborn in Ragnarok, to try to create machine of perpetual motion, to believe that diseases are caused by sin, or that abundance of food and good weather and caused by prayer.

Truth is not meant to be "attractive" or "appealing".

What makes you believe in it ?

I made a list.

Solondthewookiee · 2025-09-07T23:56:57+00:00

Red pill on its own is bad enough, but what concerns me is how much of red pill brainrot has seeped into mainstream conversation. So, so many young men and boys who would most likely never identify red pill still believe in dumb shit like the 80/20 rule because it is so pervasive among male internet grifters. Red pill might be a fringe group of lunatics, but their rhetoric is gradually becoming normalized.

ThrowRABigStoveTV · 2025-09-08T03:01:10+00:00

I couldn’t agree with you more about the premise here. The only thing is while “real” life is not quite like this it so extreme as what we see on TikTok or Reddit rabbit holes, I think a lot of pieces of it make its way to mainstream culture, and a lot of people can fall into them unknowingly.

4Enjoyer_4444 · 2025-09-08T06:37:01+00:00

What makes it appealing is very simple. Spend a month in my life and you will feel the same, no need for the „propaganda“ If you learn from experience that being yourself does not lead to any success in terms of dating you will become jaded. Red pill does help with dating. It is depressing if you arent a naturally hyper dominant and manipulative Person but if you follow it you will at least get some sex.

Superannuated_punk · 2025-09-07T23:56:22+00:00

That’s a lotta words to say that peoples’ brains are being melted by social media, and we all need to touch grass.

wtknight · 2025-09-08T01:06:12+00:00

I'm not a manospherian. But a lot of this is just evolutionary psychology made over-generalized and made into a "pop" format. Just reading the Wikipedia entry on sexual strategies theory will give you a start on the basis of a lot of gender war rationale, which is kind of the idea that men and women have different goals and therefore different strategies to achieve these goals that often put them at odds with each other when both of them are freely acting (which they were not always in the past, due to patriarchic norms forcing women to behave (at least outwardly) in certain ways).

CaffieneAddict10 · 2025-09-08T05:09:26+00:00

Tik Tok/IG/etc is not just some outer world that is full of robots or is all AI. The people making the content are real humans and those are real humans thoughts. It’s not ragebait-it’s genuinely what they believe and the likes and comments that agree are real people too. Same thing with dating apps. Those are real people. It’s not some fantasy land where this only exists online. The black pill is tough to swallow, but it is true and social media has just made it easier to see. It’s looks and looks only. Nothing else matters. Same thing with 🌽. That is real too. Those are real people making and watching it. That’s dating and sex how it is in the real world.

Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2025-09-08T07:01:19+00:00

I stumble into this subreddit while I was heart broken but I discovered content from manosphere way before, while I was looking for a way to attract a woman I had a crush on. But the RP content was full of hate and I wasn't able to learn more meaningful things

That's why I had to broke my algorithm to find more content directed to women. I was also surprised to find hate content against men and as you say those contents come from wounded unhealed people. There are some gems, but the algorithm is generally pushing content that generate the most emotions

I think content from the manosphere about dating resonate with men because it's different to the "you suck at dating because you're an immoral loser" kind of comment. They are hearing people who understand their pain and make them believe it's normal to feel what they feel. But most of the hurt men end up buying the whole package because of the consistency of the arguments

Substantial_Video560 · 2025-09-08T09:44:10+00:00

As an outsider looking in I don't particulary pay the 'manosphere' much interest. Having left the dating scene a long time ago, found that I'm on the autism spectrum and came out as aromantic all this gender war stuff isn't really important anymore.

TopShelfSnipes · 2025-09-08T13:25:04+00:00

Any time that anyone is selling you something, you have to be wary of the message. It was Kevin O'Leary who had what I felt was one of the best ways of explaining this: "Treat everything like a scam trying to separate you from your money until proven otherwise."

I think in many respects, people seem to understand this intuitively, which is why companies aren't employing dor to door salesmen these days (aka "cold approaching").

The trouble is, people haven't realized that "free" services on the Internet are also selling something. In the case of social media companies, that's access to you for advertisers. In the case of dating apps, that's access to women for struggling men who are willing to compete each other to pay more for the app to get noticed by her (and women are the "product" of the dating app, so they also want to keep them on the app!)

In the case of redpill/grifter content, sometimes the "product" is obvious - "buy my dating lessons, buy my book, come to my pickup artist workshop")...and I think all but the most desperate men realize what that is.

HOWEVER, in the case of social media content, people don't make that distinction. It's "free". This podcaster is just a self-identified good dude (har har), like them, who's trying to share his knowledge of what works with other men.

Again - not speaking for myself here - I'm rationalizing the thought of the consumer who pays for this crap.

But what gets missed is that every eyeball on that Youtube video, every click on a link, every redirect to his page, and the people who DO actually buy the book and sign up for the workshop...is revenue. And struggling guys who end up in happy marriages don't make the grifter industry any money because we tend to not really care about dating after we get married (I'm just a nut who finds this stuff kind of fascinating because it has elements of science and art to it, which is also coincidentally why I find hitting in baseball so fascinating). Plus I like helping my single friends out...men AND women alike...and as redpill has gone increasingly blackpill in recent times, it's important to counteract those narratives so men and women don't go down the rabbit hole of screeching about every little thing like you said.

So the grifters who screech about women don't actually want men to be successful, because if they were, they'd leave and never come back. Same goes for the grifters who screech about men to women.

THE OLD MODEL - "buy my book". Clueless guy buys book, it sparks him trying things IRL with woman that are kind of dickish. If he has a brain, he realizes it doesn't work, he adjusts, finds a middle ground that's less simpy/doormaty than he was before, he gets a girlfriend, he credits the book for helping him. He then recommends it to other men. Grifter gets rich.

THE NEW MODEL - revenue is based off clicks, not book sales. Men look for sympathy and community. Guy joins grifter's "community" and contributes eyeballs and clicks, which attract sponsors. Maybe he buys the book, maybe he doesn't...doesn't really matter. He's so immersed in the ragebait, he derives identity from being a 'struggling man' and encounters others just like him. They function as a fucked up support system which gives them all identity in hating "women's hypergamous nature" (quotes for sarcasm) and other borderline blackpilled takes. They consume this content for years, providing a neverending stream of eyeballs and clicks, and voices willing to shout into the void of social media as a call to other unsuccessful men (particularly impressionable younger ones who haven't figured things out yet) to join them. Generating more eyeballs and clicks.

And to be clear - women have the same thing with stuff like FDS. There are even men "helping" women and women "helping" men who are engaged in the grift, so even the support isn't gendered.

The difference above between the OLD MODEL and the NEW MODEL is why things have taken the turn they have. Fanning the "gender war" keeps both sides opposed, and seeking out answers on the "other." If women and men are the same - and we are, because we all want someone we deem hot, who's good in bed, who's company we enjoy, who we want to plan a similar life with and that looks the same for both of us - then gendered dating advice loses its appeal. You build greater solidarity among an in-group by ostracizing an "other" which is the tactic grifters use going all the way back to "Dating Advice For Men" vs. "Dating Advice For Women". Are there gendered differences? A little, but the "advice" around them isn't gendered...it's just understanding gender norms which both genders need to do anyway.

Jake_Cruset · 2025-09-08T16:27:06+00:00

Gender war isn’t real, it’s just marketing and clout chasing.

PrecisionHat · 2025-09-08T22:00:55+00:00

The gender war sucks, but you are too dismissive of the patterns you mentioned. Like it or not, men and women both have tendencies as groups. Not every individual is bound to these patterns, but they are patterns because enough members of each group do seem to follow them.

Hypergamy for example is very real and I don't see how anyone can think it isn't. That doesn't mean every woman will only ever date up in terms of status. I eventually found one who isn't like that and that's a big part of why I'm with her. But I had to slay a great many dragons before I found the princess, so to speak.

Pfacejones · 2025-09-09T22:44:14+00:00

biology should've just made everyone of equal attractiveness. I feel a lot for everybody as I can see the pain and discomfort of both situations, one person being a wonderful soul but physically it isnt possible for them to inspire a lot of physical desire, and one person being aware of the others wonderful soul but their own physiology cant produce the amount of lust necessary to overcome the lack of physical desire. we are all limited deeply by our biology and it causes a lot of pain for everyone both the person who cant inspire lust and the person who cant provide it. I hope in 10000 years every person will be of possibly equal attractiveness and then there will be less pain and loneliness

cutegolpnik · 2025-09-10T00:21:37+00:00

It could be solved by simply agreeing on moral behavior which good men and women would be willing to do.

It’s the bads holding us back.

SomeGift9250 · 2025-09-10T22:45:45+00:00

It's an issue of being triggered by the truth.

I'm the antithesis of a Red Piller. I'm college educated. I'm a firm believer of women's rights. My girlfriend is a corporate woman with an advanced degree. I cringe at kitchen and period jokes. Still I find there's some value in Red Pill content.

Still, I remember various episodes in my life where I was treated poorly and dismissed for speaking the truth. It mattered not how much sense I was making, the fact there was a female on the other side invalidated my opinion. Also, don't forget, we men, regardless of how "progressive" still have to date women. Just as women have horror stories in putting up with men, we have stories of our own.

It's also maddening how our experiences are dismissed. It's misandry at it's finest. Because there was a "violation assault" a couple nights ago in an alley, or some celebrity beat his wife, my entire experiences are dismissed. There have been Redditors who have countered my debate points with "you've laughed at a grapist joke, I bet"! I never (EVER) would vote for Trump; however, these events are largely why he won. There was even suggestions that women withhold sex, or even POISON Y-chromosome holders as punishment that Kamala lost. When people aren't allowed to voice their opinion, they will vent them in anonymous outlets such as the internet and voting booth. I guess my main point is that the appeal you ask about arises from not being able to speak the truth publicly.

This isn't to say there's no toxicity in Red Pill. Quite the opposite. However, the opposition is trying to silence even the most harmless of talking points out of sensitivity, and not a desire for the truth. (I'll also acknowledge many faults of men cannot be aired by women for the same reasons.)

Trust me, these conversations take place on golf courses, in homes, and barber shops. Even amongst the more liberal ones. Airing our grievances publicly can result in career destruction, expulsion, and social estrangement.

FuuraKafu · 2025-09-08T09:58:38+00:00

Look. Women objectively get quite a bit more dating opportunities, are seen as more attractive generally, get magnitudes more matches online, and much more opportunities for anything casual while they can afford to be much more passive/shy than men. But women say these things are worthless at best, or a curse at worst. Even dating-app using, casual sex haver women, even sex-workers, professional dominatrixes who literally made a fortune out of men kneeling before them, even hardcore gender abolitionist feminist. They all hate it. They hate men feeling disadvantaged in dating, they hate men feeling like they have to live up to something, they hate men suffering in their own reality.

Women's narrative is that dating men kind of sucks. That's why there is not a single woman on the planet who would ever say something like "oh poor men, they get so much less attention."

So yea, that's it for normalcy. "Normal people" simply avoid this taboo topic and somehow figure out how to get by instinctively. Doesn't mean that the issue isn't real. It is, and it comes down to fundamental misalignments and spiritual level disagreements.

antariusz · 2025-09-11T07:29:08+00:00

The real enemy in “the gender war” is social media itself, and the only winning maneuver is not to play.

Not_The_FBI__Ok · 2025-12-22T13:52:40+00:00

Its interesting how you said all that and essentially just framed Men as the problem and made is seem like some Women are never a problem . See this is why (unfortunately) the red pill is successful. They will pay attention and not side step certain points. But unfortunately they'll come to the wrong conclusion

DifferentProgress264 · 2025-09-08T02:33:58+00:00

If you're a presumably attractive woman my advice would be spend your free time with the attractive men that are in your social circle. That will free you up from having to worry about unattractive men online. These spaces tend to draw men who women aren't attracted to. It's natural for those guys to "vent", and complain. Attractive men have more healthy views of relationships and women, I'd say spend more time with them, and less time with guys online who aren't up to your standards.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2025-09-08T04:28:27+00:00

I think for me the biggest issue is that it's incredibly difficult to discuss gender relations when having sex and getting a relationship is frequently compared to money.

Yes, affection is different to having the means to eat, sleep and be independent.

Every other thread is how women were better off as housewives, how dare we not want that anymore, etc etc. there are comments on this very thread arguing about well at time women didn't want to vote so men should get a Cookie for giving women a vote

I acknowledge that relationships are important. Comparing that to the ability to survive and make your own decisions without a man is incredibly asine.

If the starting point is everyone should have equal rights to safety, food, shelter, voting rights, and no one should be forced to be dependent on another person then I'm willing to have a conversation.

But once one of those things is of the table then the discussion is moot. I'm not going to be gently gently on someone who thinks I shouldn't deserve to live in a society where men rule.

Tldr, hard to have a conversation when every other thread is "wahwen got rights and now I can't date"

peeper_tom · 2025-09-08T13:20:29+00:00

I wrote a song about this, called it divine femininity. This isnt it, but Men and women need eachother.. if we want to make more progress as a species. we are completely different beasts, but we both have what the other sex lack. I think the “gender war” is orchestrated, we are shown as men the worst of women on our phones (think bonnie blue) , and women are shown the worst of men on theirs(think serial killer trend). But in real life if you try to stay strong and ignore the noise we are the dream team. Just my view.

AnonPinkLady · 2025-09-08T13:53:31+00:00

I’ve only recently seen the phrase gender war crop up and it seems like a trending term used to treat the current gender political circumstances as a mutually inflicted issue. As many others have put it, men have started calling it a gender war instead of the male loneliness epidemic because they’re losing said war and now want to put their white flags while pretending we’re both at fault for starting it in the first place.

In reality the manosphere intentionally formulated a wide spread phenomenon of extreme misogyny under the delusion that women could be threatened, bullied, demeaned, and even sometimes murdered and assaulted, into submitting back into the position of hapless housewives and baby machines- and it just didn’t work for them. Birthrates are some of the lowest recorded in history and voluntary celibacy is becoming more and more popular among women. These spiteful misogynists are losing and they don’t want to accept their failure, they want to play the game of “it doesn’t matter who started it, I’m going to be the bigger person” rather than own up to their frankly embarrassing behavior.

And clearly reading these comments of r/enlightenedcentrists this propaganda has been more effective than their original campaign at appealing to both sides- which is a shame

No_Insect_1483 · 2025-09-08T18:27:33+00:00

I'm sick of the gender war in general. Both sides. I've been watching helplessly for over a decade already how it always got worse and worse. I tried to talk and reason with both sides online and you know what, shockingly enough it was always the red pilled and even black pilled men, some of them self-proclaimed misogynists even (it seemed more like society convinced them they were misogynists while they really weren't in my personal opinion), that were far more reasonable than feminists. I did encounter some real misogynists too and believe me, those are truly scary. You sense the difference between who really is and who isn't really fast. True misogynists are complete psychopaths. The men that society labels "misogyinists" often really aren't. They've just become disillusioned by the world.

It may sound really cliche and naive, but I truly believe that some understanding from both sides for the others' struggles would help a lot already. And frankly, there are quite a lot of men who do show that understanding to women. But a lot of women refuse to do the same for men. Refuse to even believe that men face any hardships at all.

Even as a woman, when you try to speak up for men, you're immediately labeled as a "pick-me" or that you must have internalized misogyny or that you must be manipulated by men. Is it so hard to believe that a woman can think for herself? Why is it that when a woman thinks in a way that goes against the general narrative that it's automatically assumed she must be manipulated? No one's manipulating me. I'm simply tired of all the double standards. And I have my own experiences which have taught me since a very young age to always question everything, to look at everything from all possible sides, to not just simply believe everything you're being told. By the media, by authority figures and hell, even by history books. Many people have called me a conspiracy theorist and perhaps I am, but I prefer the term truth seeker.

Either way, I'm digressing, sorry. I have a tendency of doing that. It's just really not all as black and white as it seems, as the media and even society itself makes it seem. They make it seem as if acknowledging men's hardships in any way would somehow be pushing women down again. In my personal opinion, that's total bs.

But then again, I also strongly believe this was all done by design. The people in control wanted this divide to happen and want it to get even worse. A lot worse. They've been promoting division left and right. Through race, religion, sexuality, political view and even gender.

Kreeps_United · 2025-09-08T02:08:22+00:00

Why is this a question for men? Not all men are part of the manosphere and you post acknowledges that you've seen similar behavior in women focused groups.

Shoddy-Cherry-490 · 2025-09-08T04:09:04+00:00

Bravo! This has to be one of the best posts I have read on this subreddit. Generally I find this particular subreddit oscillates between very reasonable posts (like your own) and the batshit crazy. However, it's one of the few places people actually seem to engage in dialogue.

To be clear, I applaud your post even though there are things I disagree with. I generally agree with you that these "gender wars" have been with us for a long time and that since the advent of social media, this particular divide has gotten somewhat out of control for a variety of reasons, but primarily an inability and unwillingness of people to engage with each other and instead hurl salvos about victimization at each other.

Personally, like many I was first exposed to this particular slice of the "gender war" debate through Neil Strauss' The Game back in 2007 when I was in grad school. Its observations about the dynamics of the dating market as well as subjects of contemporary masculinity reflected a lot of the experiences I was making as a young man finding my place in the world. But instead of the cynicism it generated in many dark places on the internet, I primarily saw it as a genuinely positive call to action not only for self-improvement, but fundamentally to act with confidence. Therefore, I have never fully understood the fatalism that runs so rampant in the red pill community even if I share the criticism of for example the subject of hypergamy.

Still, I think we have seen more than enough victim narratives over the past 15 years. I simply don't buy into this categorical victimization anymore and instead I wholeheartedly embrace the idea that we need to talk to the people we disagree with. Learn from them, make them see our own takes. And most importantly, don't assume that one or the other is right just because of who we are.

Turbulent-Company373 · 2025-09-08T03:18:40+00:00

Oversaturation of pornography online giving inexperienced men the wrong impression of women doesn't help things. It can create unrealistic expectations that are misogynistic.

Title	The gender war epidemic
Author	wayna00
Upvotes	50
Comments	628
Date	September 7, 2025 10:04 PM UTC (11 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1nb6afc/the_gender_war_epidemic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-gender-war-epidemic.1561512 https://theredarchive.com/post/1561512

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