Weekly Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2021-03-29T20:00:24+00:00

This weekly thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc......

[–]SmurfESmurferson17 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I doubt we'll ever reach a point where there aren't enough high paying men for the majority of women to marry. There are differences in performance that would prevent that. Additionally, they can always just all marry the same guys. I think something similar is happening in Norway or Sweden , the same men keep getting divorced and remarried.

I think that what will happen is that men will completely stop getting married and have relationships due to the disillusion caused by modern SMP practices and because of how much of a bad deal marriage and relationships have become for men. His will probably cause women change their tune and start catering to what men want and MAYBE cause them to be willing to address some of men's issues. This still doesn't mean that MRA isn't a lost cause. If any change is gonna happen is gonna be due to the decline reaching critical mass.

[–]OkLieThen1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I doubt we'll ever reach a point where there aren't enough high paying men for the majority of women to marry.

We will and are on track with it as well. Nothing is there to stop this from happening.

Additionally, they can always just all marry the same guys.

Illegal under US law. And there's no way this ever become legal least in our lifetimes in the US. The religious right will have a field day with this if we allowed poly people to marry each other. It would also cause a huge ass mess with other things like with filing taxes and such.

I think that what will happen is that men will completely stop getting married and have relationships due to the disillusion caused by modern SMP practices and because of how much of a bad deal marriage and relationships have become for men.

Men are doing this. But not because of SMP but lack of incentive. Women don't need men any more, men are ever so realizing this and going "okay". Women who want relationships aren't happy because dating isn't turning out like it was for their moms where men approach, ask them out, etc etc.

His will probably cause women change their tune and start catering to what men want and MAYBE cause them to be willing to address some of men's issues.

Quiet frankly the impact of men's issues are having on women is ever so making them want to address them as its impacting them more and more. And I mean socially and economically.

[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We will and are on track with it as well. Nothing is there to stop this from happening.

Men make more money than women even after decades of "equality".i have my doubts that will ever change.

Illegal under US law

I'm not talking about polygamy. I'm talking about serial monogamy. Some dudes will be divorcing and marrying again multiple women in their lifetime. Like I said something similar is happening in Norway

Men are doing this. But not because of SMP but lack of incentive.

The SMP is causing the lack of incentive. Women are no longer attractive to men for relationships (high n counts, cheating, demanding, not feminine etc.) and they see how relationships end up around them. Women will never stop "needing" men. They crave relationships and marriage.

Anyway men are already beginning to do this but it hasn't yet reached the level that could turn this around. For any change to happen it would need for the majority of men to not pursue marriage and relationships which isn't yet the case.

Quiet frankly the impact of men's issues are having on women is ever so making them want to address them as its impacting them more and more. And I mean socially and economically.

I don't see anything like that yet. Do you have any examples?

[–]OkLieThen1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]OkLieThen1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Young women out earn young men because men's careers take longer to take off.

Men's careers aren't taking longer to take off, is due to lack of education.

It's due to the hookup culture and exacerbation of hypergamy that OLD and social media promote. Women have been equal for decades and things started changing mostly when the above was introduced.

Ya no.

You see women caring about any of these? Because I certainly don't.

Caring out of the good of their hearts? No. Caring because it impacts them? Yes. When women in college can't get a date because there's a lack of men at the college, she cares. When the men around her age in her community start dying off from drugs she cares as that's less possible men to date. Like I said women care about men's issues when it impacts them directly. Its no different than with voters. Do you care about the US caring out an idiotic trade war? No. But would you care if your taxes where to go up 5%? Yes. Same thing applies here.

[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men's careers aren't taking longer to take off, is due to lack of education.

They consistently out earn women in pretty much all other age groups so I have no idea why you assume that.

A college aged man is either delivering pizza or flipping burgers. A college aged woman is working at bars, clubs, cafeterias,restaurants,retail, whoring herself out, as a secretary etc. etc.

Ya no.

Yeah tho.

Yes. When women in college can't get a date because there's a lack of men at the college, she cares.

There aren't women who can't get dates. She just chases the top 20% like always. She certainly doesn't care enough to do anything about it.

.When the men around her age in her community start dying off from drugs she cares as that's less possible men to date.

Never seen women care about this.

You are mistaking women complaining about things with actually doing anything to improve them.

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Scanning the last 48 hours of posts has reminded me of what Atlas has been saying for years. It may seem harsh - but if you're not Western, you have no business arguging RP. You do not have the framework for it.

RP was created by American men to help other American men navigate the American SMP. Its basic concepts can (more or less) be translated to other western cultures where:

1) feminism has been mainstream for 40+ years

2) birth control has been widely available for 60+ years

3) post sexual revolution secularism is the norm and religious shaming doesn't mean shit to the average person

4) women generally have economic and social parity with men

If the above doesn't apply to your country, it's not western. And RP discussions are not the place for you - unless you are willing to admit it, be humble, provide context to your comments and most of all listen and stop shouting over people who know better than you. Not saying this to be mean -- I mean I wouldn't go a sub dedicated to Islam and start aruging with people that their societies are like or should function like America.

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It's not hate, it's excitement.

Nah, I think it’s despair at the:

easy and obvious proof that women are in fact not wonderful.

What the chicks around here don’t get is that the men who lament and criticize women’s behaviors (myself included) do so because we have not yet fully accepted women’s nature, still find it so alien as to be somewhat difficult to conceptualize and stomach, and still (naively) hope it’s not true.

And in part, that’s why this zoo is actually a good place to hang for a minute, observe, and participate because you can’t really have these types of interactions with women IRL and observe their “honest” reactions.

It’s certainly been informative for me.

But there comes a time when you just have to fully accept the reality of a situation for what it is, surrender the expectation that it can be any different, and just dispassionately operate accordingly - at which point it ceases to make sense to even talk about it any further.

For me, that time has come.

Peace out y’all.

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[–]Greedy_D2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Smurf, All women are transactional, especially FDS users. All women are delusional about their value right now. The only significant difference men see is that a pick me seems to want to offer something at all. Men can see that most women are entitled and expect things for free, and pick mes as a more even and fair situation. At least that's the cursory impression i get, with zero research. Which is probably the same as most guys.

-edit-

Let's be clear on something, it's not like any guy sees being a nice guy as a moral failing, they view it as being referred to as being effeminate, weak etc. The desires and intentions of a fuckboy, a red piller or a nice guy were always the same and the methods are all equally as deceptive. The real criticism of being a nice guy, is that they're not masculine. You girls wanted to dress it up as a moral thing, but it's not. The methods and actions and intentions are the same. One's just more stereotypically masculine. If being a nice guy worked, guys would be doing it. Saying that the problem is actually that they blow up is stupid, they've been tolerating your lazy self centered ass and trying to be nice to you eventually they're going to get frustrated, red pillers and fuck boys just gave up trying to be kind to you. It's not like it was more deceptive, kindness and tolerance is a muscle and it gets fatigued when you're a bitch. The other two strategies just didn't bother being nice, and instead tried to curb your shitty behavior by not respecting you, and dominate you socially until you behaved enough to get anywhere.

[–]SmurfESmurferson8 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

All women are transactional

All people are transactional. I once made a list of what every man I’ve ever been in a LTR with expected of me, and it opened a few men’s eyes. You guys expect to gain things from your relationships, as well, quit painting this as a woman issue

pick mes as a more even and fair situation

Pick mes try to completely erase their unique personality to become what they thing the man’s fantasy woman is. The problem is that no one on earth can keep their needs/desires under wraps for a long time, and it eventually ends up blowing up in the man’s face

It’s a covert contract, essentially. Pick me, and I’ll never make a demand on you, you’ll never lift a finger

Then the inevitable happens, and resentment grows exponentially. As does the entitlement. And when the man tries to leave - because who tf wouldn’t at that point, to be clear I’m Team Man here - she explodes in a fiery way

[–]Greedy_D4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

All people are transactional.

Oh fine, i suppose. Though the men i know typically don't make it feel quite so bitter of a transaction. Usually my male counterparts provide transactions with me that amount to more than the sum of their parts. Like when i shared finance tips with my roommate and we paid off our college loans before we even graduated. It feels less like a transaction and more like a competition for who can offer the best stuff to each other. Women i meet don't have that kind of way of thinking. They want something from me, and generally make it a hassle. I can complain all day, as i'm sure you can tell but let's move on.

It’s a covert contract, essentially. Pick me, and I’ll never make a demand on you, you’ll never lift a finger

Women are ALLL ABOUT COVERT CONTRACTS, covert games, where i have to intuit what they want the way they want it. In your world, you don't pay attention to men and they tell you everything up front, in mine, I've made a fucking psychology chart in my head, and i probably figured out what week you're ovulating to choose the optimal date i should try to score. And i have to learn and intuit all of this from boring conversations in between being entertaining and dealing with shit tests. I've got a fucking spreadsheet: how's your relationship with your parents? what's your opinion of people? (projections) what can i compliment you on that shoot dopamine in your skull? Kinks? what's the kind of pace you want? You schizophrenic? N-count? etc.

i work in this implicit world with correlating factors all the time. Maybe some of these girls are just hard to diagnose, and certainly if all you're going on is a one night stand here you don't have anything to work with.

But if i had to choose between possibly discouraging from giving anything, or the low odds these chicks are going to be too much of a hassle or too hard to detect or too common. It seems like the answer to me is clear.

she explodes in a fiery way

yeah, they do that. Maybe i'm just lucky. I just never seen a girl who gave and was somehow more hard to deal with than one who didn't. And i have a tacit mistrust of really self centered people like fds users having any thought at all for my benefit.

[–]SmurfESmurferson5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Greedy_D1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

alright we're getting off topic to men vs women here. That's honestly my fault.

But back to pick me's: it's getting clearer that others even in the same thread aren't taking umbrage with the idea pick me's treat men worse than a normal woman. in fact it seems more like they view these women as demeaning. and truly that's where my suspicions arise. I think most women especially fds women view these pick me's as lowering their value and in some sense being a bad alternative to being well, postmodern women, in the same way postmodern women destroyed and demeaned the lifestyle of traditional cohabitation for women. And that's what i really think it is, i think fds people and self centered women are fighting other women on what the standard woman should be like. And you're kind of asking me to devalue a more giving woman, in the same way women devalue giving men. But you see that was an incredibly selfish shortsighted stupid decision, and i can see that, and i've argue it before. And i'm not going to make that mistake. I appreciate women who give more. And i refuse to support throwing them under the bus to support your statu quo of women being entitled and hypocritical and delusional, and misandrist, and selfish and hypergamous etc.

If she's a crazy bitch i'll note that, if she's a giver, i see that as a mark in her favor. I have cynical interpretations of why you don't. And honestly, that's entirely your own fault as a person and what i've seen of you on here. That's also the fault of the other women on this thread. MAAAAYBE with some more life experience, that could change. But as i see it smurf, you don't have my best interests at heart.

[–]SmurfESmurferson5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think most women especially FDS women view these pick me’s as lowering their value

It honestly doesn’t even cross my mind. They’re like simps - they’re just pathetic. Like the person they manage to snare doesn’t matter, they went for literally every single person who glanced their way. The person who gets into an LTR with them is almost an after thought

I will happily pamper my bf every day, cook for him, for his family, etc. I try to make his life easier in every way that I can. But I damn sure am not doing that for some random dude I haven’t been with for a long time. And he wouldn’t do the same for some random girl - we do it for each other

Healthy relationships involve that sort of simping on both people’s parts. But it’s reserved for the person you want to be with, not every guy who crosses your path

Does that make sense?

Also, I’ve seen the havoc they wreck in my male loved ones’ lives, and I don’t like them for that reason, too

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There is a female friend of mine who has recently married. While we live in a conservative country, she has some exposure to western culture, so I guess that she may be more liberal in some ways.

I was curious and asked her how she determined how much dowry her husband had to pay her and her family before marriage. And she showed me an Excel spreadsheet that she used to calculate that. The equation was like 2.5 x salary + 9000 x age + 200k (for him being an executive) + other factors. And then the total was adjusted to inflation. Apparently she got this formula from some economic studies in the country.

I was a bit shocked and teased her about her being greedy. She just laughed and told me that she saw no problems since her husband was “man enough” to pay.

And today I am glad I am gay lol.

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I never really experienced this enough to have a solid idea about it when i used to visit my relatives in iraq but i ask my friends from there about this stuff alot and this is what i got from them

Both, boomers are 99% of the time hardcore tradcon with varying levels of misogyny

Zoomers and millennials are more interested in early Western feminism

Upper class people there can get away with anything and lower class people dont and will not give a shit about laws and rights and all that (just like russia there arent any domestic abuse laws in iraq but there is mob or like family justice so if you beat your wife or girlfriend up and she has a family that actually gives a shit about her youre getting your arms broken at the bare minimum)

Middle and upper middle class people are raised differently tho, most of them see their sisters getting treated better by their fathers because shes a girl and his little princess and all that so they pretty much do the same thing with their wives and girlfriends, not to mention the fact that the man is supposed to pay for almost everything pre marriage and after getting married if you have a fight with her or something like that she can just go to her parents house and youll have to get her back and apologise in front of everyone even if you weren't in the wrong

And even if they are secretly misogynistic they have an image to protect because once they fuck something up theyll never get a second chance with any woman she or her friends or her friend's friends know. Words spread around fast and both men and women there do ALOT of digging before they try anything serious with another person. Not that there arent really any flings and shit like that but more people want relationships first

TLDR simp culture

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Definitely ignorant. they wouldn't last a month in an arabic marriage

Depends on their parents mostly, like id say 80% of the time the parents will TRY to raise their kids the same way they were raised but then the kids will always end up being alot more liberal and westernised(is this even a word?lmao) than the parents because of the influence from their peers and the culture around them in general

It doesnt mean that there arent any conservative ones but the majority arent into the traditional shit deal

Usually the parents who are legal migrants are already more educated and pro equality and all that than the average main lander so their kid get a very watered-down version of islam, like youd see alot of them (id say about 30 to 40% of them) drinking or having sex but they will keep some of the cultural and religious habits that they saw their parents do but without fully committing to it like they wouldn't touch pork or wouldnt be very affectionate with their partners in public or some dumb shit like

Some do a 180 and become very Conservative but those guys dont really know what its like to have all these expectations because its always overglorified by the media they consumer

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they say young women are more mature than men? No chance.

as a young woman, i agree that this is bogus. age has little to do with maturity imo (except for the general fact that young people tend to be more immature), and there's barely a difference in the sexes in that. it's just that young men are dangerously horny and impulsive, that's basically it.

older men are not any more mature sometimes, and younger women are definitely not more mature. and in fact, definitions of maturity may even differ. you're going to think what i laugh at and the fact that i can't take anything seriously is immature lmfao but i can be mature in other situations

it makes sense that what we find attractive broadens to include older age ranges/our own age range, as we age (as well as youth and/or beauty in any case, for both sexes again).

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It has the potential to be a best case scenario, as long as everyone is focused first and foremost on the well-being of the child. There are plenty of pros and cons either way.

Children do well when they feel like there are multiple adults who love them, care about them, and are invested in their well-being, which an open-adoption has the potential to provide. The child will find out they are adopted anyway most likely, might as well be open about it. By maintaining an open birth-parent relationship during childhood they are saved from the questions and doubts around abandonment that might spring up in a completely closed adoption. Of course, there are drawbacks too - greater potential for complications, and the need to draw firm boundaries. Either way, it is the norm if one is adopting a baby in the US.

And the only research to date that interviews adoptees shows that adopted children are more satisfied with openness in their adoptions (page 17).

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No, I would go for adoption because that kid isn't biologically the wife's either.

The issue with single moms goes deeper. First it creates a bond to the baby daddy no matter how much they want to deny it. Second, since the kid is related to the mom and not you, you are kind of "ganged up on". You could say stepparents are just as close, but it most often isn't true. Third, sometimes the kid already knows the dad which creates a competition or "you're not my dad" issue. This situation is especially bad if the kid is a girl. And finally, often single moms seek out another man because they couldn't get the first relationship to work and they are just looking for a sap to support them. That usually isn't the case with adoption, who tend to be more mature couples overall.

Single moms just aren't comparable to adoption.

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Uh how about all the man hating?

What man hating? You mean hating the men, who abuse woman? For the most part, it's just telling woman to better themselves, and not get taken advantage of men who treat them like shit (that's when they comment on men.)

See, this is what I see. People easily hate FDS, specifically because they don't know what it is about, or doesn't cater to your gender, therefore you find it an attack. Nope.

What makes you think people don't get it more so they do and calling it out for what it is which is well prostitution.

Lmao, did you seriously link me a link from a YouTuber, the idiot who dated singer Camila Cabello, in his 30s, who dated a fucking early 20 year old, and couldn't even last two years with her because she ditched him for Shawn Mendes, oh please. 30 year old man dating a 20-year old because he can't handle a relationship with a woman in his OWN age bracket, or dares to challenge him.

No, you don't get it.

There's not, but what does FDS women have to offer when they are demanding "everything" from men? As I really yet to see any single FDS woman say what they offer men. As to FDS they think they are already prizes and that alone is enough. Mean while the guy has to pay for everything, be a breadwinner, treat her like a queen. etc etc.

Wanting to find a partner that doesn't ABUSE you, lead you on, cheat on you, treat you like garbage, ISN'T demanding. Woman want love, woman want a good relationship, not to date a bum. Most of the people on that sub have settled for bums in the past, got burnt, that's why they're on FDS. Looking for a guy to treat them right, and have a good future, WITH, their partner who isn't a jackass.

[–]OkLieThen1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What man hating?

Uh the whole sub? I get you are blind to it, but plenty others have pointed it out.

People easily hate FDS, specifically because they don't know what it is about, or doesn't cater to your gender, therefore you find it an attack.

You say this because you can't see alternative views because you agree with FDS and think its well flawless.

No, you don't get it.

How do I not get it? And why does it matter who he dates? That doesn't refute or take away his point. By you telling me I must pay for every single date, you are telling me I have to pay for your time which makes you a prostitute. Let's not forget you want the man to arrange every single date while you do jack in return, something you haven't at all refuted.

Wanting to find a partner that doesn't ABUSE you, lead you on, cheat on you, treat you like garbage, ISN'T demanding.

I see you have reading issues. I never said that was demanding. Though it's funny how you mention this and yet you FDS women outright promote treating the man like shit. Not a single woman in FDS talks about respecting men and yet you FDS women demand respect all for being a woman. Life doesn't work that way. You want respect? Then respect others.

Most of the people on that sub have settled for bums in the past

All women there are LV, which is why they dated bums and are why they can't get HVM. I do like how you totally ignore me on FDS having nothing to offer men, I can only think its because you know it is true. I am not getting down on them for wanting to be treated better, I am getting down on them because of HOW they want things to be.

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In regards to dating younger women as being creepy unethical...

Let's say you weren't the most popular or attractive in high school. And let's say you discovered what you wanted out of life and got your shit together in you late 20s and early thirties, what then?

If women prefer men with similar relationship/life experiences, What options does a late bloomer have than to go after a chill open-minded girl who's figuring out love and her sexuality just like he is?

Personal anecdote. Things started happening for me a little late. Lost my virginity and had my first gf in my late 20s, my gf at the time had multiple relationships and 10 + n count all while being 4 years younger than I am. My inexperience ended that relationship.

A week ago I went on a date with a beautiful woman my own age and this woman came out of 9 year marriage to another man and lived in another country for 6 years with him. Why would i even waste her time trying to live up to her standards?

My point is if a guy is just figuring it out and is not looking to start a family, why should i waste my time with 35+ women who aren't even that sexually active anymore? I'd might as well hit up Brianna who's 22, appreciates that I'm attractive with a car and have lots of weed.

You would think women would be more encouraging like " Go for it! Go get what you missed out on!" but it's quite the opposite. It's seems like I'm encouraged to date my age who are not only nothing like me but not as sexually active lol.

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The way you described it EXACTLY why it’s creepy and unethical. The main focus of your post is sex. You’re basically saying you want to date younger inexperience women for sex. You’re insecure so you want them inexperience and naive, that way they can’t judge you nor see the red flags about you. If you dated someone your age, they’ll be able to see the red flags. This is EXACTLY why it’s looked down on. You say women your age aren’t nothing like you but how are younger women anything like you? Just cause they want to have sex? You don’t think women your age like/have sex? You’re not looking for a relationship or dating or anything like that. You just want to have sex with young girls because you see them as objects to use for your own needs. Straight predatory mentality.

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You say women your age aren’t nothing like you but how are younger women anything like you?

I meant as in experienced . I'm more experienced now than i was before but why should i filter out younger women if they are ok with it and want to try a relationship?

Just cause they want to have sex? You don’t think women your age like/have sex? You’re not looking for a relationship or dating or anything like that. You just want to have sex with young girls because you see them as objects to use for your own needs. Straight predatory mentality.

how ??? i'm not saying all women my age are not sexually active but its safe to assume they aren't as sexual as they were when younger no?

My point is why should I exclude a 22- 26 year old women from my any relationships?

Especially if their relationship and sexual experience is closer to mine? How is it predatory just to ask a 23 year old if she wants to grab a bite to eat?? Are men not allowed to date after 32?

if she thinks I'm creepy than so be it but if she's willing and excited about it why am i being judged by others? lol something good can come out of it.

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Well, there are large overlaps no doubt. But I feel this falls more to the female side of the spectrum.

Men generally (at least historically) solved problems through force. The bigger the problem, the bigger the application of force. Women had to find alternative ways to solve their problems and have a whole unique set of tools like manipulation, coercion, social 'violence' (getting others to do the dirty work for you), bullying etc... These tools were just as effective as men's (they had to be).

While modern society now generally frowns on using physical force to solve problems, we seem to look the other way when women use their tools. Also online men are completely neutered, while women are still fully armed. What these leads to is many women using their full swath of tools indiscriminately, and against men in particular.

This is why nearly every single BP argument has some sort of dig or attack on men in it. There always have to be some sort of shaming angle/attack. And calling men incels is one of their favorites.

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The cut and dry answer is no, but these social media platforms are essential to our communication, interaction and is essential engrained in our society. There are thousands of schools and millions of shops, but only a handful of social media platforms.

This plays into the conversation of these companies being too big and extremely anti competitive. There are a handful of companies that dictate society and it’ll only increase as people live their lives online.

Last week Reddit was banning people and restricting content to protect their admins and subs rebelled by making their subs private. That’s just a set of their power. They can do it any day of the week and we’re just hoping they act in good faith, but that’s all we have.

If AWS restricts you and Apple bans you from the App Store. You’re pretty much cut off.

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“ Twitter any more than Twitter has a right to choose to whom they provide service? ” Yes actually. Choosing who gets to talk and who doesn't constitutes being a publisher, twitter, bills itself as a platform, now that saves it from taxes and legal liabilities for publishing damaging information.

In other words, twitter is not responsible for say a user threatening people publicly espousing slander, that's supposed to be because, as a platform they don't control what's being said.

In other words, they need to take responsibility for their user base and pay the proper taxes they've been avoiding, or not moderate.

Both of those options seem fair. I'd argue that if a leftist wanted the former i could agree with that. I can only assume they simply aren't listening to everyone else's argument, otherwise they're literally just accepting blatant corporate corruption against the lower class, just because twitter seems like it's on team left, which is what the right accuses them of: throwing away their morals whenever it's an inconvenience.

It must come to head here. Twitter is in the wrong in the eyes of the left and the right, however the left is hesitant since they know that twitter has been playing ball with them to a certain degree. It's not a pretty discussion in leftist circles, so as you can imagine, they just don't have them.

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So your position is that the lockdowns caused death rates to spike, even though you and I know most places refused to lockdown until after the rates spiked. Name me some countries that locked down before their rates spiked and then suffered losses at greater rates than those who did not lockdown until after the rates spiked and you'll have something, but I can't think of any

Anyways, you're a pretty logical guy so lets see if we can't logic our way through this death climb/drop situation.

What do we know about covid? It's most dangerous to the elderly and people with health issues. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc all certainly qualify as the types of underlying conditions that make one vulnerable to dying from covid.

We also know that elderly make up a large percentage of the people that die from these diseases (46% of cancer deaths are people over 70... 80% of people who die from coronary heart disease are over 65). See where I'm going with this? The people most likely to die from covid are also the people most likely to die from the diseases that dropped. You could argue they were going to die eventually anyways and covid just expedited/concentrated the inevitable, but that seems unnecessarily callous and doesn't detract from the point that as covid deaths rise, logically, those other diseases will fall.

As for the rest, I'm not sure what you mean by window, because people have been dying for over a year now, so how much larger does the window need to be?

[–]Kaisha0010 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Slyfer_Seven1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I didn't say the lockdowns were effective

So then... why are we literally gutting the worlds economy enforcing them? We're talking trillions of dollars worth of damages worldwide at this point, millions of jobs lost, debt that will take decades to pay down, inflation rates that will kill savings. For what end?

It's not 'just money'. This is peoples lives. There will be more deaths due to the additional stresses, more people requiring addiction treatments, more suicides, more homeless, more people in poverty, less money for medial R&D, less money for medical treatments, etc... This was a massive price to pay, and what did we get from it?

So here's me, backing up my claim that lockdowns weren't causing spikes in Covid...

Except I never said that, what I said is that the lockdowns were causing spikes in deaths DUE TO OTHER REASONS.

But your link is interesting. And while were at it here's another to look at: https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid.

You claimed:

So your position is that the lockdowns caused death rates to spike, even though you and I know most places refused to lockdown until after the rates spiked.

Your link disproves your assertion.

Consider (for example) the USA, where the lockdowns were put in place March 17 (per table 2 of your link) while the biggest spike in total deaths occurred on April 12.

Consider Germany. Lockdowns start March 23, spike occurs April 12.

While the number of deaths 'attributed' to Covid might change, we see evidence that this is being (accidentally or maliciously) ascertained poorly. Total deaths on the other hand is pretty hard to misconstrue.

We also know that elderly make up a large percentage of the people that die from these diseases (46% of cancer deaths are people over 70... 80% of people who die from coronary heart disease are over 65). See where I'm going with this? The people most likely to die from covid are also the people most likely to die from the diseases that dropped. You could argue they were going to die eventually anyways and covid just expedited/concentrated the inevitable, but that seems unnecessarily callous and doesn't detract from the point that as covid deaths rise, logically, those other diseases will fall.

See you're almost there. If a person who has late stage cancer dies due with the flu, they don't attribute it to 'Influenza and pneumonia', they attribute it to 'Malignant neoplasms'. On the other hand we're seeing many reports of situations where people are dying of other diseases/conditions while having covid, and it being attributed to covid.

[–]Slyfer_Seven1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You want to move the goal posts to the largest spike, fine they all locked down before, it changes nothing overall.

Regardless of when the lockdowns occured, the cases didn't significantly rise or fall after a lockdown, which really is the heart of the matter since you replied that the lockdowns were causing the spikes. You may of meant other things, but I can only take what you write at face value and that's what you wrote... Go see for yourself

As for the rest, you believe the reporting is being manipulated to a significant degree, so it's pointless to proceed any further as you can just fall back on that belief whenever challenged. There is no foundation to build off of, it would be like arguing against a flat earther who believes the science is being similarly manipulated and uses that mistrust to explain away any inconsistencies

Maybe the approach here is the same though, why is this hysteria, as you put it, being manufactured? Who is gaining from this and in what way?

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You want to move the goal posts to the largest spike, fine they all locked down before, it changes nothing overall.

I didn't, you're moving your goal posts, after proving my point I might add.

Here is what I said:

Death rates have increased, AFTER lockdowns were put in place, not before. The lockdowns are causing the spike in deaths.

And you showed via your link and the one I posted that death rates (not just deaths due to covid) have increased after the lockdowns were put in place. And this isn't just 1 country, check the others if you want.

Now of course, correlation != causation, I didn't 'prove' in the mathematical sense that lockdowns CAUSED the deaths. But I have certainly disproved the MSM assertions.

Lockdowns are not effective, exceptionally costly, and are doing more harm than good. The threat posed by Covid is exaggerated by the MSM, and the majority of measures implemented have no basis in science (double masking.... lol, as bad as doubling up on condoms).

As for the rest, you believe the reporting is being manipulated to a significant degree, so it's pointless to proceed any further as you can just fall back on that belief whenever challenged.

Ironic that you would bring up 'falling back on beliefs when challenged' since that is exactly what you are doing.

Maybe the approach here is the same though, why is this hysteria, as you put it, being manufactured? Who is gaining from this and in what way?

I presented proper rebuttals that were backed by both evidence and logic, even going as far as reading and using your very own links as evidence.

You did not; instead making spurious accusations, going off tangent, and moving the goal posts. Heck, I'm certain you didn't spend more than 3s looking at my link, in nothing more than a vain attempt to discredit it. There's some very interesting data presented there, which could lead to some very interesting discussions, so it's clear you didn't read it.

Hence I can conclude, you're refusing to debate in good faith again. Time and again you pretend you're arguing from a position of logic and reasoning, but it's just a facade, and when challenged you revert back to your sophistry.

...

But seriously... why do politicians and the MSM want to manufacture hysteria?? Are you seriously going to try to argue that water isn't wet?

[–]Slyfer_Seven1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You added largest afterwards, how is that not moving the goalposts? But let's be clear, my position has ALWAYS been that the lockdowns did not cause the spike, the study showed that there was no significant decline or rise in prevalence or deaths in the 15 days before, during, and AFTER a lockdown, which from what we know about the incubation time of the virus means quite clearly the lockdowns did not cause a spike.

You keep rambling about the effectiveness of the lockdown, which was never in question from me, it's just chaff and flare trying to distract from your claim that the lockdowns caused a spike. Further, my source does not confirm your position since the spikes occured outside of the timeframe necessary during and after a lockdown for that to be the case

You are trying to cherry pick data to suit a narrative you've already concluded to be the truth. I simply challenged a part of your narrative which didn't make sense, presented some evidence, at your request, to show that your belief didn't match up with reality and you, once again, are trying to drag the discussion away from the evidence and towards some other rabbit hole you want to go down

I'm sure you have all sorts of cool links and all that somewhere out there, but what does that have to do with this claim you're making that the lockdown caused a spike in deaths? That is all I'm talking about, and despite your best efforts to go elsewhere, I'm going to keep dragging you back to this spot.

So to recap. The largest spikes in death occured after the lockdowns, but they occured outside of the timeframe needed to be a causing factor, according to research. How can you conclude that they're the cause in the face of the evidence saying that is not the case?

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But let's be clear, my position has ALWAYS been that the lockdowns did not cause the spike, the study showed that there was no significant decline or rise in prevalence or deaths in the 15 days before, during, and AFTER a lockdown, which from what we know about the incubation time of the virus means quite clearly the lockdowns did not cause a spike.

Except we see a spike in total deaths, not just deaths solely due to the virus. I've said this 3x now. You're clearly not reading what I wrote and instead just skimming to find 'gotcha's'. Your sophistry only makes you look foolish.

I simply challenged a part of your narrative which didn't make sense, presented some evidence, at your request, to show that your belief didn't match up with reality and you, once again, are trying to drag the discussion away from the evidence and towards some other rabbit hole you want to go down

Not at all. I said deaths increased after the lockdowns were put in place. Then I showed data that shows EXACTLY that. You're trying to weasel around and claim I said things I did not.

I'm sure you have all sorts of cool links and all that somewhere out there, but what does that have to do with this claim you're making that the lockdown caused a spike in deaths? That is all I'm talking about, and despite your best efforts to go elsewhere, I'm going to keep dragging you back to this spot.

Except I never 'left that spot' never claimed otherwise, and haven't tried to go off tangent. You're the one that tried to go off tangent. Go take a look at the link you clearly didn't read, it shows exactly what I claimed.

So to recap. The largest spikes in death occured after the lockdowns, but they occured outside of the timeframe needed to be a causing factor, according to research. How can you conclude that they're the cause in the face of the evidence saying that is not the case?

Already answered that. You can re-read the above answers, or give another non-sequitur while refusing to address anything I brought up, continue to make baseless claims that are trivially refuted, and continue to refuse to debate in good faith.

[–]Slyfer_Seven1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I quoted what I said, it's in black and white TWICE now. The fact that you continually feel the need to take it out of context or misrepresent it reflects on you, not me.

So let's do it a 3rd time... because if I don't, we both know you'll make more spurious claims.

Death rates have increased, AFTER lockdowns were put in place, not before. The lockdowns are causing the spike in deaths.

There it is... again, for a 3rd time. There are two statements, let's quote and address them. The first...

Death rates have increased, AFTER lockdowns were put in place, not before.

This is proven true by the data in the link I provided. I will link it again, despite the fact you won't read it... again. https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid. As I said the 1st time, and again this time, notice how deaths spiked AFTER lockdowns were put in place. They didn't go down, they went up.

I don't know why you keep trying to say I 'moved the goal posts' or changed things. I'm not sure what weird shit is going on in your head. I tried to make this as simple and clear as possible.

Now I didn't check every single country, just a few of the major ones. Perhaps if you looked deeper in the data you might have found discrepancies that were worth debating. But the fact that you DID NOT read the data and instead have resorted to sophistry, proves that you are not debating in good faith.

Let's go to statement #2.

The lockdowns are causing the spike in deaths.

This is of course harder to 'prove' in the mathematical sense. And I even stated so previously. Let's go back and find that quote because we both know you won't.

Now of course, correlation != causation, I didn't 'prove' in the mathematical sense that lockdowns CAUSED the deaths.

Oh look, there it is. And again, I showed a correlation between lockdowns and increase in deaths, this doesn't 'prove' in the mathematical sense, but is evidence in favor of my position. And considering at this point it is impossible to 'prove' (in the mathematical sense) causation (for or against) the best we have is to weight in favor of the evidence.

At no point did I change my position. At no point did I move any goal posts. At no point was I unclear or misleading. And at no point have you attempted to actually form a rebuttal and instead have insisted on using sophistry to push an agenda.

[–]Slyfer_Seven1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I gave you that study that showed the lockdowns didn't have any significant impact on deaths.

No. And again I've covered this previously...

The study showed there wasn't any significant impact on deaths CAUSED BY COVID. It didn't show there was no increase in deaths in TOTAL. This is what the 4th, 5th time now I've had to point this out? The deaths caused by the lockdown are not necessarily deaths due to covid, but rather by other factors. And no, I'm not listing the other factors because I already did...

Let's ignore the pathology of the virus, and blame the lockdown because the MSM is bad. Cool story bro

Or you could just... I dunno read what I actually wrote the 1st time instead of ignoring it and imaging some fiction.

You don't have to provide it, but have you read any study that shows the lockdown caused a spike in covid deaths in the same way I have one that shows it did not? I've been looking, but I can't find one

/facepalm

[–]Slyfer_Seven1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're talking about deaths during covid that aren't covid... Of course you are. Ok, well I took the time to look at your link, which never separates the deaths to make the claims you're making, but looking at that spike it seems the deaths all spiked around 20 ish days after a lockdown, which would be expected given that most people die after contracting Covid around that timeframe and most lockdowns were initiated after a sharp rise in cases.

So given that data, where is the smoking gun that shows the lockdowns caused significant deaths (outside of covid) when even a rudimentary understanding of how the virus works tells you the numbers wouldn't immediately fall or even plateau, but would take about 20 ish days as shown.

If anything, it seems your data contradicts mine in that it shows the lockdowns were effective in reducing deaths...

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The data is raw mortality data, it has no bias and it was enough to reply to "covid doesn't kill much and cures cancer".

I didn't say it was biased, I'm saying that the 'spikes' seen are due to the lockdowns. The lockdowns are not preventing deaths, they are causing them.

I'm not suggesting people run around licking toilet seats. There are reasonable measures such as wearing masks in hospitals or nursing homes (ie. places with vulnerable people) and making hand sanitizer available in public places. But most of the media driven measures have no basis in science.

The lockdowns were just invented by China, and somehow the west decided it was a good idea to follow them? There was no data or studies, just on a whim we shut down the entire economy... That makes no sense.

Or shutting down schools. Children are basically immune to covid, in fact last I checked I think children were more likely to die from spontaneous combustion than covid... it's ridiculously low.

None of the measures make sense, it's just media driven hysteria. Double masking is worse than single masks. The '6 feet apart' rule does nothing. Forcing elderly/in nursing homes to stay inside increases their chance of infection. I could go on, but it's just a mess because sheeple can't stop to think for themselves and believe anything the MSM tells them.

This is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog.

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Epithelial cells (which this variant mostly attacks) are some of the fastest regenerating cells on the body.

When you are young, the regeneration can easily outpace the cell deaths caused by the virus. And because it is "the wall" that protects the body (they protect your body from the outside), the immunologic system may not go on overdrive to attack it as you are always attacked there by something, be it dust mites, or the aforementioned virus. your everyday immunologic response can probably protect you enough. Leading to asymptomatic responses.

But as you get older and the regeneration capabilities are slowed down, the virus can easily get out of control leading to a considerable amount of epithelial cells death, creating a "hole" in this wall of cells... opening up so other sicknesses like pneumonia bacteria that can finally attack the tissue under them, leading to the deadly symptoms you see.

What kills more in older patients is not in fact the virus, but what it does to the "wall" of epithelial cells in our lungs. It opens the body up to attacks by more deadly viruses and bacteria. You could say the virus kills by accident.

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Question for the guys with daughters:

Let’s say you have your kid/s. You’re at a football game. You have two girls. They’re 4/5/6ish. They have to go to the bathroom. How do you tend to that?

I ask because my gf brought up an anecdote when her dad took her and her sister to a baseball game when they were young. She had to go to the bathroom. He took them both in the men’s bathroom. And a guy in the men’s bathroom yelled out and pointed “they aren’t supposed to be in here!!!!”

Lol my gf remembers feeling like she did something wrong but it’s mostly a funny memory for her.

But it brings up a good point. Is it weird for fathers to bring their young daughters in the men’s restroom? Maybe that guy who yelled felt freaked out because his member was exposed at the urinal and a 5 year old girl ambles in. But also, how else is the dad supposed to make sure his kids go to the bathroom?

My dad also has two daughters and he always had us at events like that when we were young. I don’t remember anything before 6 so I can’t tell if men were weirded out if he brought us into a restroom or not.

[–]Aldabruzzo8 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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And no men or boys in the men's room ever got weirded out by it. At least, I never saw or heard that. I've been in men's rooms alone and seen other men bring young girls in and do what I did - find a relatively clean one, wipe it down, and put her in there alone while he stood outside the stall door. Never bothered me even when I had no kids - I knew what they were in there for and why, and it wasn't weird or strange. Nothing bad was going to happen to the girl - dad's right there.

A couple times I did this with my daughter when she was 7 - on those occasions she just didn't want me far away, so we did the same thing we did when she was younger.

EDIT: The worst thing about taking a girl into a public men's room is how dirty and disgusting some of them are. I can handle it. It's OK even for a young boy. You just feel terrible about having to bring a girl in there. They look gross. They're dirty. They reek to high heaven. Anyone in there can hear men's bodily function sounds and their... vocal noises. Some of us men get into raunchy conversations in a men's room.

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I do understand, but scientific doesn't work by understanding and guessing, you have to have data or you cant afirm such a thing. So far the only sexual preference that was proven to be biological, and not due to societal standards, was men liking women with hips wider than their waist and women liking men with the distance between shoulders larger than their hips. Everything else is determined by individuals and by the society they live on. In some places in Africa girls are force feed because the standard of attractiveness for women is being fat. In some other tribes women make their necks weirdly long. In Asia there were women who would put their feet in very small shoes and deform them because that was attractive. At some places men with long hair are the most attractive. At some tribes in Africa where the men with the biggest belly is the most attractive one. So no you can't just assume shit because they make sense in your head

[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you have to have data or you cant afirm such a thing.

There is plenty of data about the cross cultural effect of all these things. If there actually was data that proved with certainty they were innate there would be no need for this sub. Just like there isn't any proof they are cultural.

Everything else is determined by individuals and by the society they live on. In some places in Africa girls are force feed because the standard of attractiveness for women is being fat. In some other tribes women make their necks weirdly long. In Asia there were women who would put their feet in very small shoes and deform them because that was attractive. At some places men with long hair are the most attractive. At some tribes in Africa where the men with the biggest belly is the most attractive one.

You are mistaking ritualistic customs and indicators of wealth with sexual attraction.

Granted men do have quite the adaptable sexuality because they were made to mate with whatever is available but still even we have some universal preferences.

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Does anyone feel like nihilism is the intellectual conclusion to everything? The thought that nothing really matters/everything is pointless is often a conclusion I've arrived at after much thought on a lot of topics related to life in general. The things people do are just ways to pass the time, whether they are are actually driven by some in-the-moment feeling or not, but still ultimately irrelevant anyway.

I think a lot of what drives people into places like these is a desire to understand or search for a sense of meaning in their own lives with which they use to drive them off on a personal mission to some other place in the hopes that where they end up will be fruitful for them in some way, whether they prosper or simply confirm that view that they had.

Sometimes I also feel like this philosophy stuff is basically a mental trap down the proverbial rabbit hole that people can't get out of once they explore too far. The hole is deep, for sure, possibly of infinite proportions, but still not as deep as your mom's vagina.

[–]jax0064 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yea pretty much. If you think systematically through all of the biology > chemistry > physics and then start to think about what "the universe" even is, things degrade into nihilism

I'm still unsure why that seems much easier to comprehend than the subjects you listed. I suck at math, okay in science, but philosophy is pretty cake because I'm in my head a lot. Maybe the subjects are being purposely made difficult to understand as a barrier to success in the modern world. I'm almost certain that's what math is, and why no math teacher can actually explain math in a way that is easy to understand. I'm sure there are people who can, but it's always "this is just how you do it." Otherwise, everyone would understand and the higher paying jobs would be more accessible/attainable to people. A lot of what smart people do is price the competition out of the market as a strategy to hold their position, which explains the class divide right now. People don't understand that though.

100%. This line of thinking is equivalent, on a much grander scale, to how shy virgins over-systemize interactions with hit women, and the result is simply them never getting laid, what a shit ending to the movie

Yeah. As someone who over-analyzes a lot, I can say that shit is definitely more simple than it sounds, or than they/people make it out to be.

This is why hedonism is superior to nihilism; if nothing truly "matters", then at least enjoying what you've got in life is the next best thing to "matter"

Eh well that's actually a step toward Machiavellian-ism where if nothing truly matters, then it doesn't matter what I personally do/anyone else personally does, and so it doesn't matter if they choose to be a "bad," selfish person in the pursuit of whatever makes them happy, regardless of whose heads they have to step on to get there.

Unless people are breaching that Dark Triad line, those who are intellectual will be conflicted between maintaining a sense of morality and their own personal success. I've had plenty of chances to have sex with women who were just vulnerable and looking to feel wanted, or who were just bouncing through life with no direction, but I chose not to because I could see it in their eyes, and I'm not up for meaningless sex, personally. I want a woman that knows what she wants, and that I'm what she wants, but asking for such a thing seems like a rare occurrence a lot of the time, like a once in a lifetime event, because most people just aren't that deep.

[–]Bandit1742 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Maybe the subjects are being purposely made difficult to understand as a barrier to success in the modern world. I'm almost certain that's what math is, and why no math teacher can actually explain math in a way that is easy to understand.

Do you think everything is a conspiracy?

I'm sure there are people who can, but it's always "this is just how you do it." Otherwise, everyone would understand and the higher paying jobs would be more accessible/attainable to people.

If all or even most people possessed the aptitude, those jobs likely wouldn't command the same salary anymore.

I don't think it's a conscious effort on behalf of smart people to keep the dumb people down. It's just that intellectual aptitude varries on a spectrum just like most traits and those on the upper end of that distribution will have more opportunities and potential.

I agree with your comments on nihilism tho.

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Do you think everything is a conspiracy?

Nope, but neither am I dumb enough to believe that everything simply is as it seems either.

I don't think it's a conscious effort on behalf of smart people to keep the dumb people down. It's just that intellectual aptitude varries on a spectrum just like most traits and those on the upper end of that distribution will have more opportunities and potential.

Nah. "Trade secrets" are one example that knowledge is being safeguarded or withheld to prevent other people from succeeding through its use. As you said, if more people could do the same, then it would dilute the profitability of that market. Imagine if everyone could be a professional athlete, a movie star, a philanthropist, etc. Everyone is looking for an edge over their competition, and if they find such an edge, they guard it from those who don't yet know. That's also the reason why misinformation exists. It is a useful tool to keep those who don't know from not knowing. Same could be said if everyone was healthy. The medical and pharmaceutical industries would not be profitable industries anymore because people wouldn't be dependent on them for maintaining their health if all they had to do was eat a greater variety of more natural foods.

[–]_mwk1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bandit1741 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Nah. "Trade secrets" are one example that knowledge is being safeguarded or withheld to prevent other people from succeeding through its use.

Yeah those exist but unless I am misunderstanding your comment you seem to be suggesting that academia is intentionally making certain subjects harder and that if not for that the average person would be just as competitive in those high paying fields.

Imagine if everyone could be a professional athlete, a movie star, a philanthropist, etc. Everyone is looking for an edge over their competition, and if they find such an edge, they guard it from those who don't yet know. That's also the reason why misinformation exists

I agree that people have incentive to find a competitive edge/ strategy and keep it to themselves but that is not the biggest differenciator between the average person and a professional athlete or actor. A secret workout/diet or drug regimen is not the biggest factor that separates the average Joe from a professional athlete.

There are two filters, first being a filter on who has the genetic traits and aquired skill required to be an athlete or actor and that will be the filter that eliminates the most people. Then of those people who had the required traits the second filter will be on those who had the secret strategy or knew the right person or some other factor.

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It isn't "heh, what's wrong, girl?" (your weakness is like a woman, which is bad and you should feel bad)

It's more like "heh, what's wrong, girl?" (as though I could give a single shit about your pain like I might if you were a woman LMAO)

When people use female signifiers like this toward women it typically comes with a warm and tender quality in tow. When it's pointed to men instead, these qualities enjoy a hot, steaming dollop of contemptuous irony slathered on top—and that's what makes it offensive.

This will never be a part of any narrative relating to Toxic Masculinity because this theory supposes that men's emotional austerity is an irrational psychosis with no extrinsic influence. This strategic misdiagnosis preserves the Feminist meta-narrative that gendered stressors are something that women experience.

If I'm right, no amount of women's advocacy will ever solve this problem. It will only ever cease when tenderness toward men as a sex isn't something worth sneering at, which requires cultural evolution of an entirely different nature. But to put into perspective how lofty such a goal is, imagine what it would take to de-genderize "girl" or "sis" in the same way "dude" and "bro" largely have been already—for it to see popular use toward men with the same warmth unironically.

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:( show me your weaknesses *i am hypnotizing you*

jk

The experience of me and most men here is that is the fastest way to get a woman to leave you.

i mean if she leaves you because of you being a human with weaknesses which we all are then i don't think she was worth it

Anytime a woman asks you to show weakness it is either a giant shit test or them wanting material to hurt you with later.

tbh i don't understand the concept of "shit tests" it's all manipulation from both sides (or maybe even just neuroticism from the TRP side and it's not really a "shit test" whatever that means). and only sociopathic people will just use weaknesses to hurt for no reason. i think some people do like to take revenge and in that case it's important to be careful but i don't think women generally view vulnerability/weakness as a tool or less sacred than the other way around.

TRP rightfully points shit shit out and says to never show weakness.

not rightfully.. it doesn't make sense not to show weakness. i mean we all know everyone has it

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I moved to WA from Eastern Europe in my early 20s. Came here for work, not a mail order bride (yes I was asked before). What you mention is exactly the reason I struggle with when trying to understand the local mindset- so much noise about equality but then my guy friends get dragged to court, forced to provide to the “strong women” they were married to. I would be happy in a traditional marriage if it worked out. I was also raised with an idea that a woman needs to count on herself only and I don’t expect to live off somebody’s work. I work hard myself and understand what’s money worth- so maybe feminism on that front, grateful I can be in a male dominated field and not feel weird about it. It wouldn’t feel right to expect someone to support me. I’m also a parent so the whole “oh I was taking care of the kids” argument doesn’t work on me either. So yes, ideally- traditional marriage, but all parties take responsibility for their well-being after and split the contribution for child support. Spouse support isn’t even a thing in where I come from, child support only.

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One of my best friends said that when she was a kid her dad used to take her to his side pieces place on the weekends to cheat lol. The dad was off on weekends while the mom was working and she was not in school naturally because it was Sunday. The problem is he didn’t want to leave her home alone because of her age and he didn’t want to risk the side chick coming over the house.

So Like around midday he would buy her lunch take her over there lock her in one of the rooms and be like don’t leave unless it’s An emergency. She would then hear them having sex in the living room or the room adjacent to the one she was Quarantined in lol. She was a child(like 11) but wasn’t stupid she eventually knew what was going on. This happened for like 2 years until he felt comfortable or leaving her home by herself.

The mom and dad are still married and she never told the mom, her and the dad never really talked about this either.

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[–]throwingwearethrowin3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Is it wrong that I judge a guy harshly on who he has slept with? My male friend was showing me photos of a woman he hooked up with. She was average. But the way he described her scent...I am no beauty queen but I would never have relations with even the most gorgeous Chad with the biggest weewee if he smelled the way he described. And after we spoke, I felt a lot less respect for him. Another time he was sleeping with a married woman and her two year old walked in on them in the middle of it, sees them and cries...I told him that is foul and again, I lost a lot of respect for him. It feels like he has sex with anyone if it’s convenient and it’s gross. The stories he tells are gross. He has no self respect and I have no respect for him. I told him to be more selective, because in my eyes, WHO YOU SLEEP WITH IS YOUR EQUAL. They aren’t less then you, and if they are in your mind, that is degrading to you, and if you degrade yourself in that manner you, again, have no self respect. I told him this and he got offended but I think he needed to hear this tough love. A lot of guys compare easy women to fast food: not healthy, gross, convenient. Welp, you are what you eat. And he’s a mess. If his guy friends give him props for banging these women, I don’t think him or any of them have a peg to stand on when judging said women.

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[–]Special-Armadillo-993 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Women are happier being single than men for two reasons.

1, they can have sex with men who are more attractive than them any time they want, therefore they do not worry about sex.

2, modern women are self obsessed narcissists and they view themselves as so wonderful and special (thanks to social media and constant male attention) that they honestly don't believe men can measure up to them. Despite this being objectively untrue.

Even if everyone tells a woman she's terrible and wrong all she has to do is visit any social media platform and she'll have all the women on there calling her queen, telling her she deserves nothing short of perfection. On that same social media thirsty men will leap at the chance to defend m'lady.

This constant positive feedback loop makes it so any valid criticism is shrugged off and women just ignore introspection and believe they are wonderful company and men should be delighted to be around them despite all evidence to the contrary

[–]GridReXX9 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

1) Men always default to this as the reason when the reason is simply because we don’t have the insanely high levels of testosterone raging through our bodies making us horny every time we blink. We don’t have boners. We would be more happy than men single even if we didn’t have a go-to fuck buddy we saw every six weeks.

2) Men on this sub always default to social media. Cute ~~women~~ people get attention from men and women and babies walking outside. Always have. Always will. This existed before social media. And will exist after. Finally, women maintain emotionally and physically intimate bonds with their close friends and family far greater than men. We aren’t intimacy-starved when we aren’t in a romantic relationship. Whereas men appear to be so. This guy seems to highlight the point that men don’t receive the type of intimacy I’m talking about in platonic male friendship.

3) What an odd takeaway. Women are not dating men they don’t like because she’s a “narcissist.” She’s not dating him because she’s not aroused by him. Yes. Women would much rather be single than with a man who doesn’t arouse her. 100 years ago this woman would have been married because societal expectation/she wasn’t able to provide or protect for herself. A woman on Twitter asked men why they date women they don’t like. And every man replied “easy access to sex.” In western 2021, women can pay for own life, life isn’t violent war torn, and she doesn’t crave sex as a man does. Why is she entering into a relationship with someone she feels “eh” about? Men only do so because “easier access to sex.”

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[–]GridReXX3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Right. He saw that I can happily have sex every six weeks and assumed I hate sex.

It was a fuck buddy. I called him when I was spontaneously horny and the sex we had was always amazing because phew I was craving it.

I am a woman with a mostly reactive libido however. Which means that when I have an actual partner in a romantic relationship I have sex more than every 6 weeks. Im not waiting until I’m spontaneously horny. My partner is arousing me or instigating sexual thoughts so I am happily reacting accordingly.

Not sure why this confuses these men lol.

The point is for me to enter into a relationship with a person who actually arouses me. This is important because my sex drive responds to them being a rousing. It’s not a spontaneously horny every 2 seconds I could fuck anything type of sex drive.

Which is why it’s foolish for me to enter into a relationship with someone who isn’t sexually arousing to me. We would never have sex.

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

lots of women seem to actually prefer transactional sex (i.e. FDS types).

true they prefer it b/c they want resources and clout. but that's actually not every FDS woman. some want "Chad" and by that i mean they want to be physically attracted.

Men understand that transactional sex is second rate sex.

some men will take what they can get, or actually are just generous (and b/c sometimes transaction can bring hotter women).

but i agree with you. it is second rate sex, you don't know if she's attracted to you really. but some men like the provider role nonetheless, and i mean stuff like trad relationships can still work out meaning that even if he's a provider, she could still be really attracted to him and want sex and not view it as a transaction.

i wouldn't ever have sex with anyone i'm not attracted to. if i can get paid for feet pics though, well...

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I understand how people can fall victim to fake news, and thats just things that are objectively lies, before even getting into things that are technically true but have a ton of spin on them. You have to remain really vigilant in order to have actually have an unbiased opinion of what is actually going on, and most people who even attempt to get to this level, myself included, are not immune to their own implicit biases. ie, they are more likely to percieve things that actually have a slant to their worldview as unbiased, or create their own slants afterwards.

Not to mention all of the things that require deep dives in order to understand. Some things may even require an extensive education in a specialized field in order to truly grasp.

Anyways, all that being said, it gives me pause to criticize people who simply see a believeable headline and thing "sounds legit" and take it as fact without looking into it further. Even myself, who takes a concerted conscious effort to avoid this, still find myself being lazy sometimes and doing exactly that. It is unreasonable to expect people to verify and fact check everything, even just because of the time commitment required alone. This makes the current proliferation of fake news at unprecedented levels of exposure immeasurably harmful.

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Well, the article writer decides it's true, because of the propaganda he's allowed to spew, out of their own bias garbage.

Back then, propaganda laws weren't legalized; or at least in America they weren't, and reporters were given jobs if they had the correct qualifications, and they made sure to print the truth, and the benefits were reaped if you did publish the truth.

Now anyone on the Internet can write anything they like, there isn't any punishment, anyone can be their "own reporter" this is why bias garbage plagues it, and people eat it up.

Look at that Q Anon, crap. A nut job spewed some shit, and people ate it up. Anyone can do that. Back then there was no Internet to do that, and it was most likely true because there had to be research into making sure what is published is correct. For the most part.

The lies would be put in advertising though.

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Most of being in that top 20% is what you were born with/genetics things such as wealth, height, facial structure so trying to compensate for that is extremely difficult. Hitting the gym for a couple years, dressing nice, getting a middle income job etc is still only going to add +2 to your score and unless you were already a 7 women are still going to think you are not good enough. The other problem is if men did this en mass then that top 20% would just become more and more competitive we know this from what happened with height where 6 became the new standard due to the average mans height improving due to diet etc. Saying all this do you think it would be worth putting in YEARS of hard effort to date someone -2 below you because that is the best you can get due to their hypergamy? Most people of both genders would say fuck you to that.

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Hypergamous female behavior in a unrestrained way promotes rat race to the bottom for men who wish to have stable relationships.

Believe it or not, it takes LOTS of effort, hardwork, and a active, serious lifestyle choice that men have to partake in to qualify for modern day women's delusionally high standards.

Get this, EVEN IF you put all this effort for decades into your personal and professional life, its STILL NOT ENOUGH for women.

This is where the famous sentiment from manosphere comes from: The juice isn't worth the squeeze. So instead of worrying about being in the top % of men, why not live your life in your own terms catering exclusively to your interests. Its not really a breakthrough advice or anything. women already do this by being hypergamous and letting their cave~~man~~woman brains dictate with their dating choices.

Women practically demand men to exclusively cater to their hypergamous behavior only to treat them as a second choice at best or a disposable beta asset at worst for their monkey branching strategies in future.

The only effective counter attack against female hypergamy is spinning plates, have abundance mentality and encourage men to not marry (if that doesn't work, encourage men to put off marriage for all of their 30's atleast)

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There's a huge difference between self improvement for career success vs self sufficiency

Nobody is actually stopping guys from self improvement. I work hard and engage in serious self development because I want to retire early, not to be a "husband material" to post wall woman or CC riding young women. But a lot of guys feel that they are expected to just slave away at their jobs when they struggle to have any good relationships. So they instead choose to not engage in that grind and instead focus on self sufficiency and choose work to live instead of living to work.

This is very bad development for women because they still expect a workhorse to be their husbands and they do not give up their "provider" masculine gender role out of men even though women gave up their female gender roles years ago.

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i guess it depends on the men they choose? but i feel like in that case just choosing one man who can actually make you orgasm as an fwb or boyfriend/husband would be the ideal.

i guess because the men are attractive so it would feel good anyway? idk.

No way. Id just be a sugar baby. At least I’d get paid.

LMAO yeah agreed. i want a genuine loving egalitarian relationship ideally and not a trad one with a provider who wants me to be subservient, and i want one where i can be honest with a "clean" past.

...but if i weren't into relationships and were not saving myself, i would be a sugar baby b/c all it is, is a transaction of sex and company (just close my eyes or something?? idk maybe find a decent looking/younger one) for money + affection + company + advice, and then go home. sounds way more than good for a soulless transaction! and i respect all choices. i do like that there's a choice, not everyone has to go down one path, though i have moral beliefs about promiscuity.

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OHHHHH THUNDERCAT

To me it is alternative urban or urban fusion songs, like obvs these people are like the nerds of the hiphop heads, their culture is like heavily urban but at the same time they are inspired by other elements and dig some sample from funk, jazz, folk, bla bla bla

If you see a dude like tyler the creator which imo is like the saint patron of this game, he is under so many influences from funkadelic, rnb, rap, electro, slam, rock.

But they all have their own universe, for instance with THUNDERCAT thats obvs very HEAVILY inspired by ACID JAZZ, like very specifically, but hes also pooring a bit of hip hop and electronica

Kali Uchi is like mainly a rnb/soul singer, but she is constantly doing featuring with hip hop heads, at the same time she is still a spanish singer and is heavily inspired by genre from south america, her last AWESOME song telepatia is like some bossa nova with some eletronic rythm.

i could talk about this new wave of artist who i feel really are big fan of different genre of music for hours lol

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my bf and i would like to move in together and come from conservative cultures, so it just makes sense that if we move in together we at least be engaged.

Makes sense. Have you considered a long engagement?

how does a marriage stop you from achieving your career goals?

It doesn't but financial strife is the #1 cause of divorce. People who aren't struggling with money when they're married tend to have happier and more long lasting marriages.

Also while people change all their lives, the biggest changes happen from teenage years through your mid-late 20s. That's why people who get married before 25 have the highest divorce rates--because the person they were when they got married is often not the person they are in their 30s and beyond.

Anyway it's ultimately your choice. Just from a purely logical and statistical perspective you have a lot going against you (young, no career) getting married now vs waiting a few years, and I don't see any benefits to doing it at 21 vs waiting until 25.

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Makes sense. Have you considered a long engagement?

i have. my bf says he’d like to have a nice wedding and would rather take the time to save for that, so the engagement will take a while anyway.

it’s really dependent on when he wants to actually go through with it and how he wants to do it, because i’d be content with just a courthouse wedding and a party lol

idrc when we do it though, i just don’t see the point of waiting until we’re in our late 20s if we already know we want to get married and can afford to do it before then.

It doesn't but financial strife is the #1 cause of divorce. People who aren't struggling with money when they're married tend to have happier and more long lasting marriages.

this is true, but i still think this is a problem that could be solved with healthy communication.

Also while people change all their lives, the biggest changes happen from teenage years through your mid-late 20s. That's why people who get married before 25 have the highest divorce rates--because the person they were when they got married is often not the person they are in their 30s and beyond.

that makes sense, but you take that risk on at every age. mid-life crisis is a thing. people can change at any point in their life. i know it’s not logical to assume people will stay the same as they are now, or to assume that even i will stay the same as i am now.

i think it’s best when you‘re able to communicate openly with your partner about almost anything, so if something big changes you’re able to find a way to solve that problem together.

Anyway it's ultimately your choice. Just from a purely logical and statistical perspective you have a lot going against you (young, no career) getting married now vs waiting a few years, and I don't see any benefits to doing it at 21 vs 25.

i don’t see what waiting is going to do if we already know we want to be married. plenty of people say the only difference between being married and being in a ltr is the paper, so what difference does it make then? i feel like it’s silly to base a decision like this on statistics rather than using discernment in your individual situation. just because it didn’t work for a lot of people doesn’t mean it won’t work for you.

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from what I know the 4th house symbolizes "the home", so safe places and safe welcoming energies, I guess having that specific synastry gives that "I feel like I've known this person forever" vibe.

omg yes! thank you, that actually makes so much sense now.

im curious too now! im a cancer rising and i wonder if it has anything to do with how my relationships unfold. cancer energy is a very emotional, touchy feely, nurturing energy but it comes with downsides and it depends on the placements, I think

absolutely. my chart has quite heavy cancer energy (my chart holds 5 cancer placements, including sun and venus) and i wonder how this relates to my love life too. for example: it would explain why so many men seem to find me approachable, but why some of my pretty friends say they rarely, if ever, get approached.

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[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (53 children) | Copy Link

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[–]geyges🐇 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

I was out yesterday, and saw this couple. She was this hyper feminine, super cute, attractive, short, tiny girl. And her boyfriend, ripped, hyper-masculine, a foot and a half taller than her, twice her weight.

I'm sure they're madly in love and totally vibe on emotional level, but looks-wise that's her standard. That's an "average man" to her.

I tried to give her my "nice boyfriend" look, but she avoided all eye-contact, probably because I look like like a crackhead. I don't know where I'm going with this story, I guess I'm trying to say that even though I'm not gay or anything, I'd probably suck that guy's dick if he asked me to.... and also no way in hell would I ever have a chance with that girl because I'll never be able to look like that guy. Some neurotic insecurities are based in reality.

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]poppy_blu1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

A drug dealer slinging crack in front of my house is illegal and puts my family in jeopardy.

A guy choosing someone else over me is neither illegal nor has any impact on my life other than maybe a little butthurt to the ego.

It’s not OK to be angry about other peoples dating choices and no one of sound mind is ever going to say it is. I know it might seem like it legitimizes the sour grapes to say things like “well it affects my taxes” but that would be like me saying people shouldn’t own property because as a taxpayer I’m subsidizing the mortgage interest deduction. IE, straight up bullshit.

Sure, we can incentivize people to make better life choices but that’s a separate issue — let’s be real here. None of you care about 300 pound Becky from the trailer park squeezing out some deadbeat’s kids. You care that you believe HV women should want and should choose men like you and they don’t. Harsh but that’s what it comes down to.

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[–]Spacechichen_1990miss hypergamy 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago* (49 children) | Copy Link

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[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Men by nature don’t like to fail. That isn’t unique to incels.

The hardest thing for incels to accept is they aren’t desirable to women so they have created an elaborate alternate reality where “average guys” are rejected and unwanted (and of course they believe they are average) by unreasonable over privileged hypergamous women who are aided by society who is conspiring to punish them for being LV, but btw those women are actually suffering and getting what they deserve by being used and abused by a hot boogeyman named Chad and will most certainly become hideous looking single mothers at 30 while “average guys” like them will suddenly become desirable at 35 to 20 year old virgin 10s. You could laugh your ass of at it if it wasn’t so pathetic.

Even harder for them to accept is they are responsible for much of why they aren’t desirable — they would rather blame it on looksism than put effort into their appearance, they would rather blame it on hypergamy than put effort into being more interesting and less neurotic, they’d rather live in the shadow of boogeyman Chad than get over their fear of approaching women, and they’d rather whine about feminism and misandry than aim in their own league.

[–]PickleLineSimp for Low N-Count women 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Squiddy-the-wisebe civil🙃 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]wekacuckPreparing to die a virgin. 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]wekacuckPreparing to die a virgin. 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]mmeIsniffgluehave a nice day 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Squiddy-the-wisebe civil🙃 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Squiddy-the-wisebe civil🙃 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]wekacuckPreparing to die a virgin. 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChaddamhuseinPost body before calling me an incel 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Plopolok 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Danger3214 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jdobrila 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OXOzymandiasBig Sexy 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Danger3214 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]OXOzymandiasBig Sexy 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Danger3214 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]OXOzymandiasBig Sexy 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway283222blue is my fav color 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]_mwk 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (57 children) | Copy Link

[–]_mwk 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Special-Armadillo-99 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

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I don't agree there is a sizeable portion AND I don't agree that they are invisible or attract negative attention.

You don't seem to be getting what I'm saying either.

Being able to be fooled by make up isn't the same as liking it. That is maximum hamster.

If men dumped every woman for make up 90% of men would be single. Still doesn't mean they like make up. It means they like access to easy sex and they realize the portion of women who wear zero make up is tiny.

And breaking up over something is not the only test of whether or not something is liked.

You do realize that they could not like it and decide its not worth breaking up over right? Nobody is perfect, men seem to grasp this concept more than women, and they are willing to stay with women who are imperfect more often than women are.

Also men don't have infinite choice as women do. A man who is lucky to get laid once a year can't afford to limit his already depleted options by being more picky while getting next to zero results.

Let's just be honest here. Women love make up because they love attention from men who are out of their league. Those men are fooled by the make up and they do give the women attention.

This does not mean they like make up. Men like big tits, doesn't mean they like fake ones but you can't always tips, the difference.

I'll put it as simply as I can.

You could fool a person into drinking poison by making it look like a drink they like, does this mean they like poison and wanted to die? Of course not. Being fooled doesn't equal liking something. It's an extreme example but it's more of a proof of concept.

[–]_mwk2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

but my point is...they're not actually fooled.

They are?

when given the option between a makeup free woman to look at/jerk off to and a dolled up one, they pick the latter.

I haven't even seen any sort of evidence for this but again, make up artificially enhances beauty. Which means that a woman will appear more beautiful with make up. Men like beautiful women.

But ask any man if they prefer their woman to look good without make up or need make up to look good they will choose the former every time.

men like their women looking good and their choices consistently show that.

And women cannot look good without make up? Or is it that those who wear make up get more attention because they are artificially enhancing their beauty?

and that's in the comfort of their homes, on their phones, without anybody to judge.

It does not require a man to choose to jack off to women with no make up to prove they don't like make up. Again, being fooled isn't liking something.

the thirst traps of barely dressed girls without any makeup and bad hair are out there and they're getting significantly less attention than dolled up ones with eyes and lips done. why? bc men like their women looking feminine and pretty.

And in your opinion women cannot look pretty or feminine without make up?

[–]_mwk2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

they're not. you keep reinstating my point. men do not think further than beauty. how the beauty got there is an afterthought. if it was more than an afterthought, you'd see men specifically looking for makeup free pretty women. but they are not, they're looking for beauty.

when you actually ask men, they consistently pick "natural looking makeup", and they don't pick naked face. proving that again, men don't look for natural, they look for pretty.

It does not require a man to choose to jack off to women with no make up to prove they don't like make up. Again, being fooled isn't liking something.

it does tho, I can say all day that I like my men bald and skinny but if I consistently pick bulky men who sport a full head of hair to jerk off to then it's showing you that I actually like the latter. it shows me that men would rather "be fooled" like you say and be offered enhanced beauty rather than look for natural.

And in your opinion women cannot look pretty or feminine without make up?

imo you cant be feminine without caring about your beauty in some way, not necessarily with makeup but taking care of your beauty is an inherent part of femininity that cant be divorced from it. my opinion is that women can look pretty without makeup, but that's not the kind of pretty men flock to.

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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There aren't enough women that don't wear make up to know if that's the case.

I'm not going to repeat myself anymore after this since you can't seem to grasp the concept.

Let's say there was a bald woman with no teeth horrible acne and fat. They could put on a wig, dentures, make up and spanks and get more attention than they had before.

This isn't evidence men like toothless women with dentures. It's not proof they like bald women with wigs. It's not proof they like fat women in spanks. And it's not proof men like make up.

All it proves is men are easily fooled and desperate enough to not break up with a girl because of make up free women's looks. They tolerate it. End of story.

Your only evidence is attention, but that's been debunked. Men don't seek out make up, but beauty. Make up makes you artificially more pretty, so you get more attention because it's hard to tell how unnatural that beauty is.

I don't see why you are so invested in telling me, a man, how men feel about make up.

I get it, you like the attention you get from make up. Cool. You do you. Stop projecting.

[–]_mwk1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]jdobrila 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]OXOzymandiasBig Sexy 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]zeedoctorzee 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]athrowaway283222blue is my fav color 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]WorkaholiconewNo Pill, Leaning red, Brazilian. 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OXOzymandiasBig Sexy 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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If it's the norm in real life why even mention it as a preference. Things that are the norm don't need to be specified as preferences. For example I have never made a point to say I prefer women who have two eyes.

As far as why guys are sometimes frustrated with it.. We dislike being held to traditional gender expectations while not being able to hold you to traditional gender expectations. For example if a man posted about how he expects his woman to cook for him or for her to dress modesty or not have slept with a lot of people he will also be attacked for it.

Secondly, it sets the guy up to feel used if he ends up going on lots of dates that don't go anywhere just like women will sometimes feel used if she has sex with a bunch of guys but none of them want to commit.

Lastly, we know y'all usually aren't consistent about the expectation which kind of goes back to reason 1. I know the same girl who might be expecting me to pay to take her to restaurants for months and will dump me if I refuse has more than likely put out a lot sooner for guys who didn't have to spend any money to keep her interested. Completely cheapens it for me. If I was actually getting a traditional, sexual modest low n count woman, thats one thing but that's usually not the case.

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[–]PickleLineSimp for Low N-Count women 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ChaddamhuseinPost body before calling me an incel 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ChaddamhuseinPost body before calling me an incel 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Well yeah if you're a piece of shit, to the point where a lawyer is like , nah bro you're fucked... I guess so. But I HIGHLY doubt a reasonable well meaning dad would be awarded 0 custody if it went to trial.

I mean, I can't speak to this personally since I haven't been divorced, but according to the MRA subreddit and even women here who have experience in the legal field, the last few decades have been pretty systemically biased against men in terms of custody, and its only in recent years that this has been changing to be more equal as older judges retire.

I'm not saying that your wrong, far from it in fact - but a lot of divorces seem to happen before the kid reaches adolescence.

It's a common sentiment that many fathers don't really feel that deep connection with their kid until they're old enough to start understanding adult things.

Women are interested in people and relationships; men are interested in things and ideas. Women bond over emotions; men bond over activities. If a kid isn't old enough to share in mutually understood ideas and activities, I'd imagine there is likely going to be a bit of a disconnect.

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i mean, you don't know that this woman just did whatever she felt like doing...? (if you mean CC and all of that).

a lot of these women could have been in ltrs/or one ltr throughout their 20s that didn't work out, and they break up and find that it's much more difficult dating after (understandably b/c by then a lot of quality people in their age range are paired up anyway, or it's hard to even meet them). it's different than teenage love, or dating in their 20s for both genders (moreso women), evidently, some people just give up. i don't think it's pathetic, that's just life. dating after 30 shows difficulties for everyone (except maybe well established men, or attractive men and women) and people learn to navigate it over time because every era of life is different.

plus, w/ how late people are dating, marrying, having kids nowadays, 30 doesn't even seem to be the end all be all wall. lots of people date and/or successfully get married after then.

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marriage is still the norm imo (i still see couples 30+ getting married out of family friends), but it’s not the goal/possible for everyone nowadays, some will just settle on an ltr. financially, commitment wise, and for kids, marriage would be the most secure but like you said some still won’t and that may he because theyre giving up (lmao it’s different in religious/non western circles I guess). if this woman isn’t a single mother, has an average n-count, and can doll herself up, she will have better options.

we don’t know what she spent her 20s doing or pretty much any other info about her. getting married in your 20s is tough especially when you’re worried about the consequences of divorce. there’s probably 1 or 2 users i can think of who did so on this sub, but from what i read, they found someone really compatible with them who they genuinely love. that’s not easy to find quickly (but if you do and marriage is the goal, getting married earlier would probably be an ideal option) 😁

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Weekly Community Chat Megathread

Comments

This Is The Way Leaderboard

Title	Weekly Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	10
Comments	2847
Date	March 29, 2021 8:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/mfy3ux/weekly_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/weekly-community-chat-megathread.766542 https://theredarchive.com/post/766542