A floor in the thinking

Kalvaire · 2021-12-22T20:19:10+00:00

I don't speak for all virgins but as for my journey to celibacy I realized that it's pretty dehumanizing to work on your character as much as possible and realize that the only thing that can make you marriageable is the fact that your unalloyed sexuality is the same thing as a shiny object. The untouched hymen is first valued, personhood is secondary. On top of that the guys who think that way usually have a lot of baggage from their fboy/redpill phase and I don't want it to be projected on me, especially if I took measures to not engage into any debauchery. Overall, it's more lucid for virgins to avoid these men.

Insidious-Sid · 2021-12-23T01:02:05+00:00

Of all the men in the manosphere and Red Pill, I have to say I must disassociate with any man claiming to be a logical being who wants to fuck every college sophomore in sight then have a virgin to marry when he graduates.

This is a HUGE and VALID criticism of many men in the manosphere, and 100% of Trad Con church-boys who want to fuck like animals then marry virgins.

If there is an innate "male narcissism" that is the antithesis to the innate female narcissism I theorize about (naturally there has to be) this would be it.

This, and the "Hey Baby come to papa" idea that a 50 year old man with a big hairy beer belly is any way shape or form going to be attractive to a 22 year old woman. Or 30 year old woman for that matter. Or any woman for that matter.

Yes, "fucking deluded" comes in both genders.

And I say that as a thoroughly Red Pilled man.

Maybe I say that as a properly Red Pilled man.

Demasii · 2021-12-22T16:45:46+00:00

You can’t shame women for not being virgins and then want to be able to sleep around

Sure he can. He just don't want women sleeping with other men. Just with him. He is the expectional snowflake. He the good guy and everyone else is an asshole.

crookedsummer2019 · 2021-12-22T14:29:01+00:00

Firstly, I think men like that are a small minority.

Secondly, I think men like that often disqualify themselves to virgins anyway, so it’s a moot point.

Virginity, in Western societies at least, is usually tied to a religion or cultural norm that discourages sexual promiscuity from males and females and does not consider such people as marriage partners.

I do think that most men would prefer not to have a relationship with a woman who was the town bike, but most women would also prefer not to have a relationship with the male equivalent of that.

RDelbson · 2021-12-22T23:08:18+00:00

So there’s those men who want to marry a virgin

Yes, that's me

but want to be able to sleep around before doing so

Not really, I've never been interested in casual sex.

and look down on women for not being virgins.

Yes, because they shouldn't engage in moral depravity.

So here’s the flaw in that thought process, if all women saved themselves until marriage, you men would not have multiple sexual partners.

That's correct. It's why women shouldn't be sleeping around. By sleeping around you've made it so that men don't have to get married and hence they can do whatever they want and the societal breakdown occurs.

You genuinely can’t have it both ways. You can’t shame women for not being virgins and then want to be able to sleep around

Agree. I think you're conflating the men who want to marry virgins with those that don't.

lingualistic · 2021-12-23T00:29:05+00:00

Yep, virginal girls/women want someone similarly inexperienced or close to it to experience sex for the first time with. This is not new information.

yabbobay · 2021-12-23T09:41:15+00:00

I think the bigger irony is the man who wants a virgin and then is upset that she is boring in the bedroom.

lostindahlia · 2021-12-22T18:32:28+00:00

Exactly, I am a virgin waiting until marriage and here are my thoughts on purity culture. I recognize that purity culture has its flaws, mainly that purity culture disproportionately affects women and places undue pressure on women to preserve not only our own purity, but the purity of men as well. I think its about time that we as a society start holding men to the same standards that we do women. As a man if your going to have the expectation that your bride should be a virgin, then maybe it’s about time that you started setting your own boundaries when it comes to sex. It is unfair that society should place the burden of remaining pure, almost entirely on women. While some women would use this as an excuse to justify promiscuity, arguing that if a man can sleep around as much as he wants, then a woman should be able too as well, this is where I disagree. It doesn’t matter if you are male or female, being promiscuous is never okay. The solution to the sexual double standard should not have been to encourage women to sleep around more, it should have been to encourage men to take some accountability, maybe learn some self control and sleep around less. We need to start teaching young men that they can’t just sleep with any woman who shows even the slighest bit of interest in them.

-Ivar-TheBoneless · 2021-12-22T14:39:19+00:00

Well it's one of the double standards that actually work for men. Women can be broke and unemployed and still date a wealthy man. Women get to go on free dates. I never hear women complain about those double standards. Well this is another one, men can sleep around and women can't. It just is what it is.

lissssa-13 · 2021-12-22T16:52:00+00:00

Those men are hypocrites anyway. I’m not sure why any woman who values sex as a for marriage thing would want a man who slept around and therefore doesn’t share the same values as her, so if he’s getting this virgin to marry he’s likely both a hypocrite and a liar.

Saborizado · 2021-12-22T17:43:37+00:00

Most men only care about the virginity or sexual past of the woman they plan on marrying or dating, for the rest of the women it's completely irrelevant. If we're just going to have sex, I don't care if you've slept with 200 guys before me.

If you expect every woman you sleep with to be a virgin, you're an asshole.

razormachine · 2021-12-22T18:47:30+00:00

So there’s those men

Some men, instead of all men. Excellent start, I hate when people treat genders as they were some kind of homogenous monolith.

who want to marry a virgin but want to be able to sleep around before doing so and look down on women for not being virgins. So here’s the flaw in that thought process, if all women saved themselves until marriage, you men would not have multiple sexual partners. You genuinely can’t have it both ways. You can’t shame women for not being virgins and then want to be able to sleep around

Essentially they want to eat the cake and have it too.

Well it does work for some men, but it is an immoral behavior, with some hypocrisy in the form of berating women which provided them with sex thrown over it.

jayval90 · 2021-12-22T19:26:07+00:00

So there’s those men who want to marry a virgin but want to be able to sleep around before doing so and look down on women for not being virgins.

I see this assertion all over the place. I have not actually met anyone saying this. The closest thing I've seen is people saying that the consequences are lower for men sleeping around than for women sleeping around, but that's not the same thing.

Most guys I know who want virgins are saving themselves also. And most guys who haven't been saving themselves recognize that they shouldn't expect a virgin, even if they prefer it.

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-12-22T20:00:44+00:00

It's a double standard, there's plenty that benefit women and benefit men in regards to sex and relationships, not to mention most of the women who did sleep around are more than likely going to lie about it anyways, or at the very least if you're a guy it's smart to assume so, it is what it is

Not to mention, women get "slut shamed" and men get "virgin shamed", ain't nobody worried about what's "fair", at least not if they're smart lol

YoMamaz_azz · 2021-12-22T21:09:57+00:00

I dont care about things on a macro level, I just want what I want on an individual level. The same way far more women women want a 6ft 100k+ etc guy than there are, and without having those things themselves.

shygirl449 · 2021-12-23T02:38:13+00:00

I don't get it either

I think men are making up these complaints about how "women won't want me if I'm not a Chad"

you want virgin? that, I don't care. don't even care about your double standards. but y'all have some of the most self defeating brains, thinking you're doomed when you're not. someone said "but women are only attracted to men with high n-count". If you want to raise your n-count that's fine but stop speaking for women.

RandomRedditGuy322 · 2021-12-22T13:31:15+00:00

And there are women who seek a traditionally masculine man in a relationship (well educated, hard working, good income) while possessing no to little traditionally feminine traits themselves. Women are hypocrites in dating as well.

PapaDragonHH · 2021-12-22T13:04:36+00:00

First of all, I want to say, that I don't shame any woman for having alot of sex. However I don't feel like I want to marry a girl that has had many guys. It's just not an attractive "trait" for men. So the question a woman has to answer is whether she wants to have sex with lots of different guys or be attractive to more men. That's purely her decision but she must live with the consequences. But there are lots of guys who don't care.

For guys on the other hand it's the opposite. Women don't feel attracted to guys that no woman wants. Most women want a men who has options and has had multiple women. Of course there are exceptions to this.

But that's the main difference in my opinion.

undersupervixen · 2021-12-22T14:56:58+00:00

Just speaking mathematically, yes we pretty much can. Suppose there are 1000 men and 1000 women.

We select 100 women to be town bicycles and 100 men to be bachelors. Then all men can sleep with the town bicycles (all men reach N=100). 900 of the men can then marry one of the 900 virgins. The remaining 100 men don't get virgins (but they could have one of the low-N ex-virgins after a divorce or widows or something).
Alternatively all 1000 men marry one of the 1000 virgins but any women who divorce become town bicycles.

So there's not really any inherent problem here mathematically.

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2021-12-22T15:15:46+00:00

I hate to break this to you, but not all women are inherently dateable/make good partners whether their n-count is high or low.

JacobMoogberg69 · 2021-12-22T14:49:43+00:00

The desire to marry a virgin comes from a man's total insecurity in the sack. If she hasn't had anyone before him she wouldn't be able to distinguish between good and bad dick. Until she decides to find out the difference 5 years into the marriage.

lissssa-13 · 2021-12-22T13:20:35+00:00

No one knows someone’s n count so it is a useless metric. I feel like children make a big deal about n counts. For all he knows she used to be an escort

SuperSupremeKai · 2021-12-22T17:25:57+00:00

And if the guy is a virgin and wants a virgin and the reason as to why he's a virgin is due to bad luck?

Is just the desire to sleep with many women alone enough to disqualify him from ever getting someone his equal in that regard?

EstablishmentKooky50 · 2021-12-22T17:50:20+00:00

Who shames women for not being a virgin? Is that the majority of men or just a few hatchet-faced wild boar? Criticizm usually goes towards women with double digit notch counts in their early twenties, as in: "you may find yourself struggling to find an LTR with a partner of your preference, because men have a preference for purity (or at least the illustration of it)". Also it's not even shaming to say "i wouldn't take someone with a very high body count for an LTR".. It's called expression of preference and it's a normal thing, both women and men do it.

I think, no one should be shamed for their life choices, also no one should bare the consequences of other people's life choices.

ChildhoodTop2283 · 2021-12-22T18:32:58+00:00

Just avoid men that spout this rhetoric. It is quite easy

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-12-22T20:34:17+00:00

You genuinely can’t have it both ways.

It's women who want it both ways.

They want to have sex with the alpha guys when young, then get married to a beta providing guy.

NoMarriageNoKids · 2021-12-22T20:57:36+00:00

This is a pretty common post that I've seen. Men just want to know their wives weren't 304s before. You don't need to be a virgin. Just don't be Jackie that blew the entire football team in one go.

Kaisha001 · 2021-12-22T23:15:55+00:00

So there’s those men who want to marry a virgin but want to be able to sleep around before doing so and look down on women for not being virgins.

It's two different groups of men.

AbsolutelyNobody0 · 2021-12-23T00:44:47+00:00

This argument is garbage. Even if we accept that there are men who want to marry a virgin and want to sleep around before doing so, that doesn't mean they want all women to save themselves until marriage. The most you can say is they want at least 1 woman to save herself for marriage. Also, even if they only want to marry a virgin, that doesn't mean they've done anything to shame women who aren't virgins.

vanillapopsicle · 2021-12-23T08:26:44+00:00

Where is the flaw? Yes, men may biologically want to sleep with many women, but spiritually/emotionally/mentally they want one good woman. The biological urge comes and goes and is not the most important thing. And you’re missing the point that the women have the ultimate control. They can choose how they’re perceived.

sisyphuslasvegas · 2021-12-23T09:55:17+00:00

Also, in some religions, it is a requirement for a first marriage. Everyone has the right to choose their own preference of how they interact sexually.

ExtraBurdensomeCount · 2021-12-22T14:13:30+00:00

First day on this sub?

Aldabruzzo · 2021-12-22T16:01:49+00:00

Uh, well, yeah, we can shame women for sleeping around and us men also wanting to sleep around. Yes we can do that. We can say whatever we want about what women do. Whether that makes us sexually successful or not is a different matter. But we can have opinions about it and we can express those opinions. Don't really care if it sounds hypocritical - it's our opinion, and we have a right to have it and express it.

We shame only those women who demand commitment from high value men after sleeping around. We shame only those women who demand what they don't deserve and haven't earned.

If all women saved themselves and didn't have sex before marriage, then men would adapt and marry the best women they could get. Women are the gatekeepers of sex. There's a lot of women who right now aren't really doing a very good job of keeping their gates.

Vtridolla · 2021-12-22T13:03:41+00:00

Well. Virginity and “body count” are silly social constructs that aren’t even tangible. So to judge somebody for them is pretty silly to be quite honest. I respect it if that’s what you want to do but don’t shame people for not following these ways.

Also yeah incel/RP ideologies don’t hold too much logic. They want their cake and to eat it too while they demand women to shut up and make them more of the cake.

abaxeron · 2021-12-22T13:43:11+00:00

if all women saved themselves until marriage, you men would not have multiple sexual partners

and we would see it as a good thing. Women don't save themselves until marriage. Which is why we're having multiple sexual partners.

You genuinely can’t have it both ways.

We don't want to have it both ways. Women, not men, destroyed institution of marriage. Men just adapted.

skon7 · 2021-12-22T15:34:06+00:00

I’ve always said this. They want their cake and eat it too. This is why men have mistresses. There’s a conundrum, where Good girls can’t compete with hoes which is why the side chick exists and hoes can’t compete with good girls which is why often hoes will settle for some low level form of commitment.

Also there are actually a large number of men who don’t like broke women. Seen some crazy shit on the internet. A lot of Men don’t wanna be financially abused by women lol

LackOf_Empathy · 2021-12-22T13:16:13+00:00

This will only apply if you think men and women are the same which they aren't if a man sleeps around it means he is of high value, but if the woman does the same thing she is of low value, and women themselves shame each other about having a high body count more than men do.

Square_Inflation_534 · 2021-12-22T14:09:05+00:00

Do you mean flaw?

bottomLobster · 2021-12-22T21:53:43+00:00

This question implies women and men are equal. They are not. It is infinitely easier for a woman to get sex compared to a man, especially in their teens.

Therefore, while both are not the best things in the world, women and men sleeping around are apples and oranges.

Thinkingard · 2021-12-22T16:36:46+00:00

Because women want a guy who has the option of sleeping around and men want a girl who hasn't slept around a lot because the former thinks the men must be high value and attractive, and the latter thinks it will keep a girl more loyal to him, less likely to divorce or abandon him. Women protect their eggs, men protect their livelihoods.

FlicksterTrickster · 2021-12-22T17:16:43+00:00

Why not? There are plenty of double standards that benefit women. Why can’t there be some that benefit men?

peteypete78 · 2021-12-22T15:57:27+00:00

There's no flaw, there will always be women who want to sleep around and women who don't.

DeliciousPussyNectar · 2021-12-22T17:27:08+00:00

Not all women are worth marrying.

KurtWagnersBamfSmoke · 2021-12-22T20:21:48+00:00

Those dudes are weirdos. Unless he's a virgin, don't expect for her to be. Me personally, I don't look for a virgin. I just want a woman to actually give a shit about me and my happiness. If you REALLY want a man that'll fight and/or die for you the fucking least you can do is make sure he's happy in the meantime.

pubgmisc · 2021-12-23T02:04:31+00:00

Women and women are very different in literally everything. Women are born with value, preserve it and get the best guy they can. Men have to build up their value and it takes time. In traditional cultures, they don't do stupid shit but chase excellence etc. In deregulated sexual market places like the west,well in ones like this in history, women have always shared alphas than settle with a beta + men love completely differently

Ballface8020 · 2021-12-23T02:58:49+00:00

What men are saying this? The men in the comments on YouTube MGTOW videos? IRL men don't care about body count. It's a meme.

Zerofication · 2021-12-23T09:35:57+00:00

These are two separate points. Men preferring virgins over non-virgins for marriage, and preferring non-virgins over virgins for pleasure is equivalent to women preferring wealthy men over poor men for marriage, and preferring psychopaths over non-psychopaths for pleasure. And just because men looking down on non-virgins doesn't prevent them from considering these non-virgins for pleasure, women looking down on poor men doesn't prevent them from considering these poor men for pleasure as well.

sisyphuslasvegas · 2021-12-23T09:52:55+00:00

Well, I don't think it's a shaming thing for some Men, it's an investment thing. You can have sex with anyone you want; on both sides, Men and Women...but each person can also decide who they would "marry". Some Men would sleep with any woman, but only marry Virgins, and that's perfectly acceptable, just like Women may sleep with low earning Men,..but only marry high net worth Men...it's just preference, and survival.

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-12-22T16:47:24+00:00

Yes, but if a guy wants his partner to be a virgin, he's extremely conservative and wound a little tight. Is that the kind of guy you want? Most guys would like their partner to have enough sexual experience to actually have a sexuality and know what she likes in that regard. To have some kind of drive and passion. This is called normality. If you want to date the extreme fringe groups, then you have to play their game, if you want to date like an average human, don't sweat it so much.

Now: that's different from being turned off if a woman is very promiscuous. Promiscuity might be a red flag that that person has low impulse control or has poor decision making or poor bonding ability. And there's a double standard there in that women reward men for being promiscuous, but that's another question.

edit; a lot depends on where you live and whether the prevailing culture is conservative/

UEMcGill · 2021-12-22T17:41:25+00:00

There's a whole lot of logical flaws in all this.

Why can't you just fuck married women on the side for one?

I like steak. To me a pinnacle of civilized society is a dry aged steak cooked very rare. I'd like it served with a glass of Rye, neat. I personally don't give a fuck about the sides. Sometimes though, I'll run into a neighborhood bar and grab a greasy hamburger. But again, the end of the world is coming? I'll take that dry aged steak.

A dry aged steak is hand selected, and then aged under very controlled circumstances. Does me eating that dry aged steak make me think any less of that hamburger? No. I don't ever confuse the two. Would I think twice about a hamburger that tries to pretend it's dry aged steak? Not at all. They're easy to tell the difference between.

The flaw in your argument is you assume that everyman wants every woman to be a virgin. I wanted a wife who was high value, and body count had a lot to do with that. I also had a lot of fun with some serious slutty girls. But I also didn't go pretending hamburgers were steaks.

moosemc · 2021-12-22T19:49:03+00:00

When you leave school, and leave the school rumour-mill.

Nobody knows who the virgins are.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2021-12-22T20:32:02+00:00

I think the notion that you have to be exactly what you prefer is nonsense and only applied to men's preferences. No one is questioning fat or broke women for wanting in shape or rich men.

SnooCats37 · 2021-12-22T20:38:50+00:00

[permanently deleted]

billsull_02842 · 2021-12-23T05:24:14+00:00

treat other mens females the way you want your own females treated or the everlasting Father is going to make you pay the uttermost farthing. and judge women the same way you would judge yourself. yet what % of women are civilizing influence on men? what percentage of women are attracted to players?

floor_critics · 2021-12-24T10:11:37+00:00

Best flooring for basements. The good news is that there are numerous flooring options you can look at. But, not just any floor will do, as basements tend to be a damp area of the home.

PM_ME_STRIPPERS · 2021-12-27T04:48:25+00:00

Literally no man gives a shit about marrying a Virgin except for christisns weirdos incels and neckbeards

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errrright · 2021-12-22T20:52:45+00:00

I just wish them luck in their endeavors to attract a woman who meets their standards and is a virgin.

As the concept of virginity becomes less important in western society, the likelihood of finding virgins in the dating pool diminishes - and even more so when you consider that many virgins want the same from their partner. Less women see the benefit of holding onto their virginity if they’re practicing safe sex. There are plenty of good men available who don’t give a shit about virginity or n-count. Women who do save their virginity are usually doing it for religious reasons and would expect the same from their dating prospects.

There will come a point where most of these men will need to decide if upholding these ideals is worth being single forever. If the benefit of settling down with a virgin is so high that compromising isn’t an option.

Title	A floor in the thinking
Author	SnooCats37
Upvotes	68
Comments	671
Date	December 22, 2021 12:57 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/rm4qj2/a_floor_in_the_thinking/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/a-floor-in-the-thinking.1091183 https://theredarchive.com/post/1091183

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