If men want to even the dating field they should take better care of their appearance

wtknight · 2023-09-14T23:04:59+00:00

Re-flaired CMV as this post is making an affirmative claim

CryptoThroway8205 · 2023-09-15T00:19:42+00:00

This 280lb 5'7 girl got a 20% match rate on tinder and posted today: 10 dates, 7 fucks, 2 relationships. The 20% is only as low as it is imo since she's bi.

I agree appearance is important for men but it goes to show there's a lot more leeway for women than men. No man with a similar bmi would get that kind of match percentage (unless they were fit but had a high bmi). I'll admit that for the number of swipes the number of dates is ridiculously low. And a lot of the matches were guys who swipe first and ask later or who just want to fuck her not date her, but if we assume that about the guys it's only fair to assume women use tinder for validation.

I've put in hundreds of hours at the gym these last 2.5 years. I'll never get her match percentage on tinder. Do alright on the other apps tho.

With that being said though OBVIOUSLY personality matters more and that will get you to the end game (relationship), since you cant just maintain a healthy relationship purely based off looks, and everyone gets old and "ugly" someday.

I think good looking guys who are dumb as a rock do get to enter relationships more than valedictorians competing in nerd events. The dumb guys might not end up the final guy that girls marry and stay with. Like that convicted felon who got a modeling gig off his mugshot and then left his wife and kid to marry and impregnate an heiress. The heiress eventually left and married someone closer to her social standing. I've also met these kinds of girls irl. One broke it off after 3 years with a physical trainer. The kind of guy that has the intelligence of a golden retriever. She's not dumb either.

Sometimes, looks do carry a relationship imo. But often it's not enough to grow old with. People put up with a lot more from attractive partners.

Icy-Account-7084 · 2023-09-15T02:28:51+00:00

this woman clearly hasn’t heard of looksmaxing or gym maxing 😭😭😭

One-Store2972 · 2023-09-15T09:22:25+00:00

Hmm let’s see what are the most attractive traits in a man:

Face (genetic)
Height (genetic)
Muscle Genetics (genetic)
Hair / Bread (genetic)
Frame / Shoulder to Hip Ratio (genetic) 6 Dick Size (genetic)

You can put makeup, face-wash and shower gel on a trash can, in the end, it is still a trash can.

Ugly is ugly, no matter what you do. Yes, being ugly and clean/well groomed is much better and depending on your situation, you may be able to become average, but the traits that make men PHYSICALLY and SEXUALLY attractive, are all based on genetics. People who have the above 6 can put the bare minimum and succeed. People who don’t have some or most of those will have a hard time, even if they beautify themselves. That’s the bottom line. There’s only so much a man can do the execentuate those traits. I can’t wear heels, those are for women. I can’t wear makeup, those are only allowed for women. I can get hair extensions to look badass, those are allowed for women.

Your thread just comes off as as an assholic way to blame people who struggle with insecurity, especially those that are caused by beauty standards. I don’t give a fuck, I have the right to my feelings. I’m not gonna bottle them up. Maybe show a bit of sympathy next time

trail22 · 2023-09-15T00:18:33+00:00

Yeah as a 5'3 asian guy who lifted 4 days a week while running 30+ miles a week. Who was described as the guy who knew everyone as a funny guy by more then a few guys; I think you overestimate how much you can control regarding your appearance.

FunEducation1434 · 2023-09-14T22:49:37+00:00

Shit man I’m ready to take it to the next level. I’m thinking about getting a few cosmetic procedures if this gym shit don’t work

jpla86 · 2023-09-14T23:28:09+00:00

I take care of my appearance and it doesn't make much of a difference.

If women consider you unattractive, no amount of grooming will make a difference. To them, you'll just be a well-groomed ugly guy.

Barely-moral · 2023-09-14T22:41:46+00:00

An individual man can get better results if he improves bis appearance.

If all men improve their appearance then the dating field remains uneven because men want women more than women want men. Women will still get the same amount of options and they will still pick only the best options they have while ignoring everyone else.

bottleblank · 2023-09-14T23:55:59+00:00

"Just be Chad"

ComfortableOk5003 · 2023-09-15T03:09:13+00:00

Funny OP how all the things you mentioned cost money but aren't very difficult, and the majority of women don't do the 1 thing they should...proper diet and work out.

Also aren't women constantly not shuttint up about how makeup is for them and not men

accountinghelpadviso · 2023-09-14T23:03:53+00:00

Most of that shit you mentioned actually doesn’t matter for men and women even admit they do it for themselves and other women.

Men don’t care about nails, colored hair and braids, too much makeup(we normally like a smaller amount that gives a more natural look)

We also don’t give a shit about excess style. If you just wear form fitting clothing it won’t matter.

cel-shaded · 2023-09-15T09:06:58+00:00

From what i've seen in real life the men most successful were the tall guy in jeans and white t-shirt or the pretty boy with perfect hairline and broad shoulders. The shorter, less facially attractive but well-dressed and well-groomed men ate dirt. Everything you suggested matters little when compared to immutable genetic qualities.

That said, in an environment where every man is equally genetically attractive, improving one's self with mentioned methods will also improve his chances. Unfortunately, inherently below average men are fucked.

DoinIt989 · 2023-09-15T11:51:14+00:00

Men are doing things like gym, skincare, fashion obsession, plastic surgery, way more than they did 15 or 20 years ago. Men are competing on appearance because they have to, that's just the market reality.

Lovers691 · 2023-09-15T00:13:22+00:00

Here’s the thing, you can only improve your looks very little unless you were obese, emaciated or have a medical condition affecting your looks. Most of the stuff you mentioned that women do like the coloured hair and nails men don’t care about, let’s be real only women care about new clothes, coloured hair, nails and non/natural makeup. That being said I am blackpilled and in favour of men improving their looks.

tbmnitz · 2023-09-15T09:10:25+00:00

~~buying makeup~~, new clothes, doing their hair in the salon(cutting+~~dyeing their white hair+hydration~~) ~~not to mention doing braids~~, ~~putting extensions or having a coloured hair which requires almost weekly treament~~, nails, skincare, shaving/eyebrow, ~~eye lash "implants", + other~~ cosmectic treatments ~~that some do like botox, lip filling etc~~

Out of your list, those are the only things acceptable for men to do.

New clothes - This one i agree with and is one of the few things a man can do to make a big difference in a short period of time.

Doing their hair in the salon - Men have limited options when it comes to hair style. It's expected for us to have short hair which leaves you very little room for style. You could grow your hair longer but that only looks good on certain guys. Plus some guys have balding/thinning hair which leaves them with even fewer options.

Nails - There isn't much we can do except keep them trimmed and clean. There's almost nothing else we can do here.

Skincare - Have clear skin, ok cool. But if a guy don't have perfectly clear skin despite his efforts at skincare he can't just cover up blemishes with makeup. He's really at the mercy of nature with this one.

Shaving/Eyebrow - Don't have bushy unruly eyebrows. Got it. But we can't do much else other than that. Guys don't really have the option to shape our eyebrows a whole lot.

Cosmetic treatments - Hair transplant? That's about the only procedure a guy could realistically get. Sure there's facial reconstruction or leg lengthening surgery but that's not a reasonable option for most.

I think women severely underestimate what it actually takes for a man to improve his appearance, assuming he isn't starting as a complete bum. It's not as simple as getting better at painting our face with makeup or getting a few injections. Men's appearance is strongly determined by genetics. Height, hair, beard, bone structure.

We can't just contour cheekbones, change the shape of our nose and eyes or paint on a jawline. Changing our physique at the gym takes at least a year or two minimum, and that requires several hours of work per week and a stringent diet.

There's almost no quick fixes for men as there are for women. A woman can go from a 4 to a 7 in just a couple hours at the salon and with makeup. For a man to go from a 4 to a 7 requires years of hard effort and/or major cosmetic surgeries.

You say there are soo many little things men could do. I'm curious to hear them.

MirageF1C · 2023-09-15T11:42:47+00:00

Funny how easily 90% of the people in my local gym are male.

If I didn’t read this post I would have said it’s the exact opposite. You ladies should take better care. I guess it depends on your perspective.

LogicalLetterhead272 · 2023-09-15T00:34:12+00:00

Meanwhile women do a thousand things in their monthly routine to look nicer and more presentable.

I thought women do this because they enjoy it, not to attract men?

resultsmatter1 · 2023-09-15T00:53:26+00:00

No amount of appearance improvement will even the dating field. There’s a woman on the tinder sub who posted her stats today and she’s 5’7 286 lbs and has no issue getting dates and casual sex.

I don’t know what other evidence to provide.

hisdivinity · 2023-09-14T22:41:07+00:00

Yes most men should definitely begin to take care of their appearance, no need to put make up on but a skin care routine, regular haircuts and exercise can easily make you go from a 5 to a solid 6!

THUNDER_SLAYER_777 · 2023-09-14T22:50:29+00:00

Taking care of appearance might help , but it will not be that much of a difference .

Dating field will never be equal .

avi150 · 2023-09-14T23:39:16+00:00

I genuinely don’t know how to fix my looks though. Can’t afford to fix my teeth, I work out but only get minimal muscle mass, I have a weird ass hairline and odd shaped skull so bald isn’t an option (and girls don’t like young bald guys) I can’t grow a beard. I can dress better and have a face routine but that’s basically it, and it isn’t enough for me unfortunately.

jhunter2015 · 2023-09-15T05:40:27+00:00

Another delusional out of touch take. Most young men take care of themselves with lotion, haircuts, grooming, dressing normal. Men can’t fucking use makeup to hide everything.

Being physical attractive as a man has like 80% to do with your facial symmetry and god-given height

And no. Women are lazy as hell, average women is obese and wears too much makeup but she gets hella attention due to the dating market being fucked cuz of social media.

jaypb182 · 2023-09-15T07:14:41+00:00

Gee, this is groundbreaking advice! As if blackpillers and redpillers aren't all about hitting the gym and looksmaxxing. Most guys who struggle aren't the disgusting obese slobs covered in Cheeto dust sitting in a dungeon that you picture in your head, but literally normal guys who take care of themselves already.

I will agree that women have a huge heads up in terms of looksmaxxing, as they've been doing it for most of their lives, so of course you'd think that works as a solution because for women all it takes is to not look disgusting and don't be a piece of shit (ironically, the essence of blue pill advice). But for men, in my personal experience, it doesn't really help unless you fit other immutable criteria that we all know about and have discussed here ad nauseam.

retal1ator · 2023-09-14T23:30:50+00:00

Men do put less efforts in their appearances, but that’s mainly because they’re subconsciously aware that they’re gonna be valued for other traits more than that (assertiveness, confidence, money, dominance, etc).

I’m general, I think any man should just aim to trim hair & beard, wear nice clothes, and don’t be dirty.

Just look at a fashion magazine cover and copy that.

Beyond that we need to also be muscular, confident, take the lead, and all the other long list of requirements.

Women on the other hand most often just need to be pretty and not insufferable. It’s way easier for women to just focus on beauty - men need a lot more to be considered attractive.

RahLyt · 2023-09-14T22:42:31+00:00

While what you're saying makes sense and a lot of people are going to disagree with me. I think the biggest problem with men is not so much about looks is more about not being man enough.

By man enough what I actually mean is escalating and actually trying to shoot their shots.

Spyro7x3 · 2023-09-15T01:10:42+00:00

Improving your appearance as a man means different things than improving appearance for women. Generally any man focusing too much on his fashion going to come off as a gay lord or narcc. As with all hardships for men the correct path is a very narrow line.

hopfield · 2023-09-15T02:07:13+00:00

It doesn’t matter. Chad can show up to a Tinder date with shit stains on his shorts and he’ll still score. It’s over

pop442 · 2023-09-15T01:01:02+00:00

I actually agree with this.

2023-09-15T02:12:43+00:00

This is just one part. They still have to get money, mentally strong, and emotionally stable. Otherwise you WILL attract women the opposite of that.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2023-09-15T14:50:00+00:00

I said this a while a go and got down voted to the ocean but you are 100% right, men are just not attractive enough for most women and would increase their odds simply by becoming better looking

Safinated · 2023-09-14T22:38:42+00:00

Oh, but that’s haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard

Rogue5454 · 2023-09-15T03:33:31+00:00

As a woman you sound like you have internalized sexism with some of your words here.

I don’t think anyone should take this advice tbh lol.

Nice-Breadfruit-6795 · 2023-09-14T23:04:18+00:00

Yeah, who wants to tell all the guys on the apps that their unkempt lumberjack beards are a massive turnoff to most women? Just trim your beard for goodness sakes. If that's the only thing you do, you'll have much better luck. Seriously, like 50% of the guys on the apps had horrible, long, scraggly beards. I swiped left on a bunch of potentially compatible guys solely because of the unattractive beards.

13choppedup2chopped · 2023-09-14T23:09:34+00:00

This is true but only about things that distinguish you immediately. Making your teeth perfect will help you. Nicer shoes probably won’t. A better physique will get you better results. A hair cut might also get you better results, although to a lesser degree. Wearing a polo more often will yield minimal results.

bison5595 · 2023-09-14T23:58:35+00:00

As a guy, I completely agree that men need to work on their appearance. I actually don’t understand why more women don’t articulate their physical preferences. I’ll see video after video on tik tok and Instagram about what they want men to do in relationships, but never spell out what they want men to look like. I know the response will be every woman is different, but men are able to give women a standard look to shoot for, why can’t women?

meshflesh40 · 2023-09-15T01:13:32+00:00

This whole post can be summed up as "dress nice so that i can show you off on social media".

Gotta keep those appearences

LotBuilder · 2023-09-15T01:39:02+00:00

Agreed. It doesn’t take a ton of effort to crack the top 3rd in terms of looks. Be in shape, take care of your skin, bright clean teeth, good hair cut, smell good, have a fashionable, upscale age appropriate wardrobe, nice watch, nice shoes, clean and trimmed nails. Be fvckable. Women are not attracted to a lot of guys because a lot of guys are gross and give little effort.

Muscletov · 2023-09-15T11:56:54+00:00

The current generation of young men are probably the most vain, looks-obsessed generation of men that has ever existed.

But there is only so much you can do as a man. Most features of male attractiveness are genetic.

melindabrown2023 · 2023-09-14T22:41:16+00:00

Men who complain about their height are free to obtain leg legnthening surgery. It's no different to the myriad of surgical procedures (boob jobs, nose jobs, BBLS, Botox, lip fillers) women have subjected themselves to just to appeal to men.

morbidnihilism · 2023-09-15T01:13:10+00:00

why wont women lower their standards instead

Immediate-Bid-6873 · 2023-09-15T03:38:06+00:00

Personally, I’ve never cared about looks in men. Men who spend an exorbitant amount of time on their looks come across as feminine to me. Good hygiene and habits do matter to me though. What’s more attractive to me is their character and how they treat me.

Key-Faithlessness-29 · 2023-09-15T04:11:09+00:00

And have strict standards and self control but most men are lonely for that and they would rather kill themselves than open up to their homies or God forbid have female friends who they can talk to

GodspeedHarmonica · 2023-09-15T04:36:38+00:00

Yes, but the biggest problem today isn’t appearance (even though both men and women really need to improve). The biggest problem is lack of social skills

DecisionPlastic9740 · 2023-09-15T08:09:37+00:00

Great post! 🫶

noafrochamplusamurai · 2023-09-14T22:49:59+00:00

The dating field is already even, it's actually tilted in favor of men if you include the endgame of dating, which is marriage. Men are the real commodity, some of us just don't realize that part yet. 66% of adult men( even men under 30) are in relationships or married.

Women control the dating market, men control the marriage market.

luroot · 2023-09-15T01:51:01+00:00

Im a woman and I can guarantee you appearance matters. Thats the first thing you notice because its apparent, people dont carry their personalities written on their face. If you are a really nice guy but the girl doesnt find you attractive, they will place you in the friendzone since she probably likes you as a person but doesnt have any sexual/romantic interest on you. With that being said though OBVIOUSLY personality matters more

Lol, personality matters very little...and much of it is a byproduct of positive feedback from women and lots of experience. Which is initially based on looks...so that it creates a positive feedback loop. Like, it's easy for a good-looking guy to develop confidence, when women are constantly thirsting after him. And with more opportunities come more reps = more skill, and success breeds more success. Whereas a physical reject is simply not going to get the playing time to begin with to even learn through trial & error...

tiddermacss · 2023-09-15T03:40:13+00:00

this is like me a MAN giving pointers and advises on the third trimester (bill burr joke)

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UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2023-09-14T23:07:10+00:00

"but women don't want men to look good/women are all shallow who only want the best looking 20% anyway".....

CradleCity · 2023-09-15T01:27:17+00:00

I agree that taking care on a basic level (in my case, for example, I do some basic skin care due to having a dry, sometimes flakey skin) is necessary for dating and all that. I always shaved before I went out on a date, and I use a perfume/cologne from time to time in my daily life.

However:

Meanwhile women do a thousand things in their monthly routine to look nicer and more presentable. I will name some of the things: buying makeup, new clothes, doing their hair in the salon(cutting+dyeing their white hair+hydration) not to mention doing braids, putting extensions or having a coloured hair which requires almost weekly treament, nails, skincare, shaving/eyebrow, eye lash "implants", + other cosmectic treatments that some do like botox, lip filling

This is overkill. I never asked for all that (in fact, it doesn't cross my mind, I don't give a shit), and I don't think many men asked for it, either. Now, three things here:

Women often say that their hair stylings, makeup and all, are done for themselves, not for men. So, our male desires are irrelevant (including mine) to the free choice of women in regards to how they want to look. You are free to choose, but you have to accept the consequences of your choices, like men have to do if they don't even shower before a date.
Fashion and makeup companies are, imo, the main culprits of pressuring women to look 110% at all times (and those companies feature both men and women, so you can't pin all of it on men). Social media and pop culture also tends to emphasize cosmetic beauty to the point of exaggeration, sometimes (which leads to dysmorphia and eating disorders in some quarters, or heavy filtering in photos which obscures the physical reality of people).
If, by some chance, a man wants to date you, he's not gonna be picky about your preparations in terms of looks. You don't have to dress to the nines, or go through 3 hours worth of hair and skincare routine (that stuff should be reserved for things like attending weddings / baptisms / big family-friends events). Many men are, I believe, ok with more modest looks, 'girl next door' types and all that...

I'd rather a woman spend more on books, music, movies, than on make-up, as a personal aside. More interesting conversations can be had.

raldabos · 2023-09-15T01:35:05+00:00

This s**t again? I see it once a week at least.

Women never understand this

A lot of women look really bad, are obese and use filters all the time. But we men are more thirsty and desperate to get laid, so it doesn't affect them as much.

But at least you're honest about the importance of looks for women. That definitely should be more accepted.

princedune · 2023-09-15T01:37:51+00:00

There's not much that men can do to change the traits women are looking for. No matter how many hours you spend at the gym, you cant grow taller or get sharper facial features. I've done all the little things I can, and it has raised me up about a half a point at best.

2023-09-15T02:14:50+00:00

Also to point out, there is a ceiling that some men hit when looksmaxxing. An ugly guy can become normal and a really ugly guy can become ugly.

Fusiontron · 2023-09-15T02:48:58+00:00

Having an above average body as a guy only gets you +1-2/10, women care about face and height much more than men do in women. A fit woman unless she is facially deformed starts at 7/10. With that said, I think guys should go ahead and get fit because it's easier than ever to be above average in fitness with current obesity rates. I also would say that while almost all men can grow facial hair, maybe only 20% grow facial hair that looks good. The rest need to go for the smooth look. Myself aged 20-25 was certainly guilty of too many bad mustaches.

kcmiz24 · 2023-09-15T02:54:36+00:00

Don’t fall for this shit. I am over 6 feet tall, white, muscular with low body fat. It’s still almost impossible to get any girl slightly above mid on a date from dating apps. I swipe right on about 18% of women and get maybe a match or 2 a week

16ozbuddz · 2023-09-15T03:06:00+00:00

I'm not going with this, sorry

Wolvengirla88 · 2023-09-15T03:58:50+00:00

Appearance is more than just what someone looks like physically. Appearance is about fully occupying your life and maximizing your good qualities. It’s about knowing what your good qualities are. Why do people like you? Why do people have issues with you? Do you even know? What clothes look good on you? What activities make you feel sexy? Etc

BackAgain12345678910 · 2023-09-15T04:19:01+00:00

Women care more about how u make them feel than how u look.

cassowaryy · 2023-09-15T05:05:08+00:00

It would help but that’s not the main issue men have when it comes to attracting women. I’ve had girlfriends while being skinny as a stick. Attraction for women goes much deeper than physical appearance. Physical appearance is a much bigger priority for men when it comes to attraction

Firm_Shirt_2553 · 2023-09-15T05:40:30+00:00

Realistically you really can't do much to raise your attractiveness as a guy. If a man were to just copy what women did, he would end up looking like a femboy.

Most_Read_1330 · 2023-09-15T06:06:08+00:00

But would women be accepting of men wearing make up?

sniper1905 · 2023-09-15T06:16:04+00:00

I’m currently on my fitness journey, and I have a lot of weight to lose. Should I start approaching girls? I know I’m not gonna get any matches on the dating apps at the moment.

Baowen7 · 2023-09-15T06:18:53+00:00

I personally feel that this is true. Like sorry but if you're going to smell like you sweat BUCKETS everyday and have unruly hair, or even worse, dirty facial hair (dirty as in visible dandruff/food crumbs) then you won't have any luck with women.

Kosilica457 · 2023-09-15T06:19:18+00:00

Believe me OP, nobody gives a fuck ablut your hair or nails if you are not already tall and dont have a good looking facial structure.

There are short guys with great sense of style who really are not bad looking, but still get rejected for unkept giraffes who are 6'+

AreOut · 2023-09-15T08:20:57+00:00

it is valid individually, but if all men improved their appearance it would be the same because women would still push for top guys

Billsandasonom · 2023-09-15T08:24:53+00:00

Aside from just the proactiveness of trying to look better for whatever reason a lot of men are also just delusional about what looks good. Men 20-30 lbs overweight look in the mirror and think they look fine or strong and are afraid to diet b/c they'll get 'too skinny' or that it's weak and unmanly.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-09-15T09:02:43+00:00

I'm OK with men shifting their priorities in terms of how they spend time and money being attractive to the opposite sex. If women are changing the weighting of the criteria they use to evaluate men, then the corresponding male efforts to attract women should also change. But you don't want a situation where men are just working harder than women are to be attractive as a result of women still having classic criteria that need to be met, as well as the greater emphasis on male looks.

Different-Virus-7474 · 2023-09-15T20:37:08+00:00

I'm tall, athletic, have decent looks and money/lifestyle and dating is still extremely difficult for me.

navlgazer9 · 2023-09-15T22:02:59+00:00

Doesn’t matter what a man looks like as long as he has plenty of money .

If however you don’t have tons of money you’re willing to spend on women , Then you gotta be good looking .

Not a millionaire or a model ?

Sucks for you dude.

Cause very very few women are gonna be interested in men who are honest and hard working decent guys .

It’s like all the women who say they love to travel .

They only love to travel when someone else is paying for it .

Routine_Variety_5129 · 2023-09-15T23:05:18+00:00

Most women and men I see are pathetically out of shape. Sometimes I'll think someone looks in shape, but once their shirt is off they are actually fat.

It would make sense if women were in shape and men were fat, but both genders tend to be fat. And eyelash extensions, botox, lip filler look like shit. I agree women spend more on their appearance, but not being fat and sticking to makeup would probably be better. Men can't wear makeup without being assumed gay so that wouldn't work.

If men are pathetically fat and women are pathetically fat you would think they both would have limited options. This isn't the case.

cagrinvestor · 2023-09-16T04:20:50+00:00

Dating is based on supply and demand. There are too many men in the west.

Appearance is superficial and won't fix the demographic problem but will get you meaningless casual sex.

Title	If men want to even the dating field they should take better care of their appearance
Author	laureca
Upvotes	41
Comments	378
Date	September 14, 2023 10:34 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/16iw6or/if_men_want_to_even_the_dating_field_they_should/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-men-want-to-even-the-dating-field-they-should.1231858 https://theredarchive.com/post/1231858

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