Women put the bar higher for men than most would want for themselves.

Previous-Pea-638 · 2024-06-08T05:19:19+00:00

I'll get downvoted into hell for this, but...I'm a woman, and I find that many women can't hold a decent conversation to save their own lives. They're boring and talk about the same crap constantly. They talk about their kids, dieting/gym, and social media (FB). Or they gossip about everyone else.

Most women bore me to death. They're only sociable when the conversation is what they feel is important to them. There, I said it.

Zombombaby · 2024-06-08T12:10:48+00:00

I have the same standards for friends as I do for partners. Treat me with respect, kindness, empathy, and support me. And I will do the same for you.

If the bar for my girl friends is too high for you (which my friends and former bfs have had no problem meeting btw) then maybe you're not boyfriend material.

Direct-Alternative70 · 2024-06-09T08:43:56+00:00

I agree. It’s always the “you deserve to be treated like the queen that you are” as she’s unhealthy, phone addict, with mental problems and a bad attitude who expects Prince Charming.

It’s something I believe as women we hold this toxic positivity where we just applauded everything that now we’re thinking because we exist we can stop trying.

It’s only fucking ourselves over at this point. If you’re told you’re perfect just the way you are 100 times you’re never going to better yourself.

cherrybby802 · 2024-06-08T04:06:15+00:00

I don’t think those are huge factors for women. Maybe on paper, but I think compatibility and things thing that are more important than if a guy is extroverted or not. It’s easy to say I want a guy who is extroverted and self assured because those are good qualities to have. But if I meet a guy who I like who doesn’t have those qualities I’m not going to automatically ghost him.

kayceeplusplus · 2024-06-08T10:54:01+00:00

But "Charming, outgoing, intuitive, sociable, assured, lower-inhib men"?

Not my type. I don’t pretend to speak for all women, but is there any evidence that this is what most women want? Assortative mating is a thing, people tend to gravitate towards partners who are like them.

Lots of women don't have any of this, particularly a lot of women are inhibited and passive, have self-esteem issues, and are introverted. Some are even neurodivergent.

Ditto, but idk if I am “passive” enough for this description, and I don’t have a diagnosis. The guy I’m interested in is introverted and neurodivergent, and I like him because I can relate to him. I don’t think I’d have much in common with someone who is “charming” and “outgoing” and “sociable”.

Men aren't allowed to have any weaknesses, but women are.

And I think that the flipside to this is women aren’t allowed to have any strengths but men are.

This is the very essence of toxic masculinity. Yet toxic masculinity is somehow only men's fault and women have no role in perpetuating it. The statement "women want action figures, not men" carries strong validity in light of this.

Ok sure

Of course inb4 someone says men can just choose to reject women who lack those characteristics. Of course, then we'd have marriage rates like South Korea.

Ok. Birth rates have been declining in the west anyway, we’re already on our way there. Men can have standards too.

If all of this is what a man has to be to find himself a relationship with a woman who doesn't have those limitations... one has to ask, is a relationship even worth it anymore? What is she really falling in love with?

I can’t answer that, it’s for you to decide

RelativeYak7 · 2024-06-08T05:00:23+00:00

Low inhibition? Who said that's attractive. IMO it means this outgoing dude is going to cheat on me so he can go fork off and I never want to know him.

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-06-08T05:45:42+00:00

If men think they’re not getting a solid deal in relationships, they can quit dating. I don’t think it’s a big deal.

I just think a lot of men believe being alone is worse than whatever deal they’re getting with a woman in their life.

OkProfessional9405 · 2024-06-08T05:02:56+00:00

Can you help me with a usable definition of toxic masculinity, it's usually used to explain psychopaths and mass shooters and is thrown around as a generic insult towards all men but the latter usage in particular just seem to stem from more of an anti masculinity view point.

As for women's long list of requirements it's best for men to more or less ignore them, women are rarely consistent in terms of what they say they want and what they actually go after.

Lanaglu · 2024-06-08T05:10:19+00:00

You are generalising, but statically on average yes men and women tend to find different things attractive and different strengths and weaknesses.

Like I don't think of this as so much of a standard but from my experience women are much more likely to be supportive emotionally, whereas while there are some men who are good at being emotionally supportive (and they can be really good at it, #notallmen) there's a lot of men who cannot. I have men friends, women friends AND I'm Bi and have been with both men and women, I think I can say that.

As I said I'm bi and I ask pretty similar standards of men and women, and I'm a sub, and dom women are pretty rare, if men were just better at everything than women it'd be dumb of me to ever date women.

If women got way more out of it than men, then they would be looking for it harder and it would balance itself out.

kongeriket · 2024-06-08T10:12:26+00:00

Of course inb4 someone says men can just choose to reject women who lack those characteristics. Of course, then we'd have marriage rates like South Korea.

Not necessarily.

You are underestimating the degree to which men influence the behavior and the development of women.

This kind of tension is in fact normal (as in normative) and has happened multiple times throughout history and will continue to happen for as long as the human race is around on this planet.

In the 18th and the 19th century women from colonial nations (England, Portugal, Spain, France) changed quite a bit in order to adapt to the fact that an increasing number of men had the option to go to the colonies to look for a woman. The results varied but in France they went through a South Korea phase. The total fertility rate in 1924 France was lower than it is today. And then it rebounded.

Both men and women having options disrupts the dynamic and forces the sexes to adapt. The disruption itself can be very annoying and frustrating, but it's also inevitable.

All disruptions will eventually have an effect. That effect is not always positive, but it always happens. Then, over the span of a generation, we as humans look at the effect and then re-run the experiment again to try to correct or improve depending on how we like(d) the effect(s). We do this mostly unconsciously and have been doing it for millennia. Nothing new under the Sun.

what a man has to be to find himself a relationship with a woman who doesn't have those limitations... one has to ask, is a relationship even worth it anymore? What is she really falling in love with?

At its most extreme end, the assumption(s) behind your question are correct.

With that said, there's a wide spectrum between the extreme you are describing and the other extreme where both are charming, outgoing, intuitive, sociable, assured, lower-inhib (an extreme that is also low desirability because people look for complementarity regardless of whether they admit it or not).

My wife is less charming than I am, less outgoing than I am, a lot more intuitive than me, less sociable than me, about the same as assured as I am and far less low-inhib than me. But these aren't the only qualities I looked in her or she looked for in me. Your reductionist analysis is detrimental to you.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-06-08T04:33:21+00:00

Dude it’s about COMPATIBILITY. A woman can want what she wants and if she can’t find it, that’s her problem. Also, men don’t all have to be all those things to find a relationship. They need to find someone they’re compatible with.

ThrowRA_forfreedom · 2024-06-08T04:43:21+00:00

Intuition is definitely tough to develop, but the rest of these seem like things that can be mastered sufficiently with practice. I'm genuinely not trying to be rude, but what kinds of challenges do you think men have as far as barriers to learning charisma and social skills?

Edit: I don't personally see these traits as super essential. My husband and I are homebodies, but we both definitely know how to turn on the charm for career stuff sometimes. I can see it being a desire for super hot women who like to be seen out and about, though.

EsotericRonin · 2024-06-08T13:02:58+00:00

Its not about finding someone with the same qualities lol. I don't know why men don't understand this. I am innately unorganized as a man, I want a woman who is organized. Passive people want active people. People who lack confidence want people with confidence. Its not rocket science.

serpensmercurialis · 2024-06-08T16:54:29+00:00

Men aren't allowed to have any weaknesses, but women are.

Of course inb4 someone says men can just choose to reject women who lack those characteristics. Of course, then we'd have marriage rates like South Korea.

But men can’t be selective or else society will collapse. How convenient that the most obvious solution is out of reach so that you don’t actually have to sacrifice anything (your prospects) or change anything (the type of women you give your time and attention to). Men not being selective for something as important as the mother of their children isn’t something they can be held accountable for, it’s simply the way the world works. Naturally.

But "Charming, outgoing, intuitive, sociable, assured, lower-inhib men"? Lots of women don't have any of this

The women who do have those traits are selective. They’re not interested in men with learned helplessness to be the father of their children unless they’re codependent or something. You can be an introverted, passive, boring person and still have an internal locus of control. You can still be a problem-solver. What makes a “weak man” isn’t being introverted or nerdy or whatever. It’s this weird ass refusal to set any kind of standards for the way you carry yourself or the choices you make. You can complain about the reasons why it’s hard, you can try to change them, but at the end of the day the choice is still the one you’re making. If no man came along with the traits you list as “wise” then you better believe I would not be choosing them anyway. Men’s supposed willingness to look beyond those qualities and blame others for the consequences doesn’t make them better people, it makes them worse ones.

HomeworkFew2187 · 2024-06-08T04:22:28+00:00

some women are turned on, some aren't. women aren't the flood from halo they have individuation.. men perpetuate toxic masculinity the most. it's not a women's job to solve every male issue.

south korea is terrible for women. it's a lot more worse than what your suggesting. are relationships with men worth it anymore. is he really worth it ?

bubbagator · 2024-06-08T04:47:42+00:00

Charming is a high standard, so she should settle for a guy thats just kinda awkward and makes her feel weird.

Outgoing is a high standard, so she should settle for a guy that is meek and avoids leaving his comfort zone.

Intuitive is a high standard, so she should settle for an emotionally dense guy who doesn't understand her.

Sociable is a high standard, so she should settle for a shut in that's hard to be friends with.

Self-Assured is a high standard, so she should settle for someone who's afraid to stand up for themselves.

Low-Inhibition is a high standard, so she should settle for a guy who's too afraid to do anything at all.

Women don't have high standards. Men are just desperate.

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TRTGymBro1 · 2024-06-08T11:53:07+00:00

You don’t have to pick women who don’t have the traits you want in them. Simple as that. I also want a woman who will be perpetually 19.5 yo, have the body of a porn star, has anal sex whenever I want it without having to prep, because she’s always clean, makes me a sandwich and so on and so forth.

MelodicCrow2264 · 2024-06-08T11:54:42+00:00

No duh. Kind of like all the women that want guys who are 6’ tall making six figures while being neither of those things themselves.

driggsky · 2024-06-08T16:37:35+00:00

Yes women are attracted to men who display above average qualities. It’s simply the reality of the world

Most women are average and want men with brains and social skills that are above average.

Hypergamy is real.

On the flip side, most men would prefer women who are ‘hot’ which is also more than they are. People’s ideals are high. I would argue that the baseline for men being attractive is much higher than the baseline for women being attractive but that’s just the way it is.

Blame your biology and free market for forcing you to be an ‘action figure’ and constantly improve yourself to be attractive.

The upside is that if you can improve yourself, your life is much better overall (even when not accounting for women). So just view it as a character improvement journey.

Intrepid-Rip-2280 · 2024-06-08T18:54:01+00:00

That's how things work. Work on yourself and you'll have a woman, act as an average redditor and you'll end up dating an Eva AI sexting bot avatar. It's a mechanism of natural selection

Intrepid-Rip-2280 · 2024-06-08T18:54:13+00:00

That's how things work. Work on yourself and you'll have a woman, act as an average redditor and you'll end up dating an Eva AI sexting bot avatar. It's a mechanism of natural selection

kingpinkatya · 2024-06-09T01:10:11+00:00

The 6 traits you listed, where are you pulling these traits from? What woman has said this? Does she speak for all women?

What is with this weird ass scenario you're shadowboxing??

obviousredflag · 2024-06-10T12:39:29+00:00

Who told you that men want in women what women want in men?

AidsVictim · 2024-06-08T07:58:32+00:00

Those requirements (at least most of them) are only for 2nd or 3rd choice men. Womens actual requirements for men they're (actively) attracted to are the same as mens are - mostly just be hot and not completely terrible to be around. The main difference between genders is just that there's far fewer men that fall into the "1st choice" category than women.

No most women would not want to be subjected to the requirements to "make up for" not being actively attractive i.e. treated like an average man.

Stunning-Ad14 · 2024-06-08T04:39:45+00:00

"Weaknesses" are not attractive. Women are more comfortable being single than men.

SlavePrincessVibes3 · 2024-06-08T15:43:06+00:00

That was a LOT of words for "I have absolutely no desire or intent to grow as a person and better myself, so instead of doing that, I'm going to blame women for wanting a good man."

MongoBobalossus · 2024-06-08T04:04:26+00:00

Yet another “women should lower their standards for substandard men” post.

Equivalent-Cat5414 · 2024-06-08T04:57:26+00:00

Another one of these rants blaming women for everything and stereotyping us all to be the same?! Seems like almost every day now. “Some are neurodivergent.” No shit! But those of us who are neurodivergent don’t care so much about a guy being charming and outgoing.

DeepHouseDJ007 · 2024-06-08T12:59:12+00:00

You think that asking for men that are charming, outgoing, intuitive, sociable, assured and low inhib is asking for too much?

As a guy I think that’s a relatively low bar, I don’t see how this is a big deal.

Expensive-Tea455 · 2024-06-08T04:37:55+00:00

Another “women should lower their standards for me” post

FiestaDeLosMuerto · 2024-06-08T08:53:59+00:00

It’s very common unfortunately and not just with personality, there’s a lot of women expecting to date men with more money than they can make or men with physical qualities they can’t or won’t have. if hypocrisy in dating wasn’t a thing half of men’s complaints would be gone.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-06-08T08:46:09+00:00

No, they're just looking for men with different strengths. They might be nurturing, conscientious and emotionally intelligent for example but not expect that from men. But often it's only traits asslciated with men that are seen as strengths. Relationships don't need to be between two people who are the exact same.

2024-06-08T14:01:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Ok-Dust-4156 · 2024-06-08T09:54:26+00:00

This "lower-inhib men" has a lot of different names, like "wife beater", "serial cheater" and so on. Maybe dumb teenage girls want those men, but I never seen a half-decent woman who would want this kind of man. Introverts in same time are fine. Basically stay away from dumb women who still think they're in high school.

wtknight · 2024-06-08T11:05:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

wtknight · 2024-06-08T13:02:26+00:00

Men aren't allowed to have any weaknesses, but women are.

Most women will end up with men who have almost as many weaknesses as they have, just because many women have weaknesses themselves, and men and women end up matching monogamously since the monogamous relationship paradigm is the dominant one.

What men end up resenting is if she has had sex with men who were more attractive than him and who had fewer weaknesses than him in the past. This is why women having casual sex is such an insidious thing when it comes to future relationship stability, and why the average man with his typical issues should probably avoid average women who had casual sex in the past.

So men are technically allowed to have weaknesses. They just aren't as desired as the men who don't have them.

Unhappy_Offer_1822 · 2024-06-08T13:18:21+00:00

nah none of these matter that much to me and some of these traits are rather annoying. well maybe intuitive is good but thats not common to find anywhere. its more about how the brain functions, and if it actually functions at all

addings0 · 2024-06-08T14:07:13+00:00

Women think ' toxic ' masculinity as oppression. Men won't let women do things based on old traditional values. Women have a different view of romance that is always changing, because of demographics ( that aren't mens fault ) . Many people don't value romantic bonds. Only value romantic encounters and experiences as a distraction. Bonds involve both to have emotional endurance, effort, and evaluation through challenges, not indifference and narcissism. Challenges women refuse to confront, believing romance is supposed to be easy. It's not. Love is supposed to be complex. If it's not difficult, it's not romance. When ' girls just wanna have fun ' , it means they don't care about whom they're sharing that fun with. She's not worth it, if she's trying not to care. It's the social contract of consent and freedom he signed that women care about, not him. And she should be criticized for making a choices based on her agency, in the negative if warranted.

neverendingplush · 2024-06-08T17:05:35+00:00

This our fault though as men. We say oh she's willing to date me, oh good enough. I figured out a long time ago, that half the shit they ask for , they themselves do not possess.

superlurkage · 2024-06-08T23:06:59+00:00

Then they will be alone

Or will they ?

kingpinkatya · 2024-06-09T01:06:59+00:00

What does lowered inhibitions mean?

SoldierExcelsior · 2024-06-09T04:58:40+00:00

These rules only apply to average men bad boys chads and tyrones don't have to fit any therapist molds

BrainMarshal · 2024-06-11T19:20:06+00:00

Women don't have high standards when it comes to personality

Sandjota · 2024-06-09T00:09:54+00:00

Women set the bar high, but in the most superficial ways. They value how much money a man makes, without considering the potential negative personality traits that led to them becoming well off (greed, taking advantage of others, manipulative tendencies, ripping people off, workaholic, self-centered worldview, etc).

They value how tall a guy is, though it is completely outside of their control.

They value how charasmatic a guy is and how well he is able to build a social.and emotional connection. Yet they overlook how some men seem so natural about it is becuase they are playing the field. They lie about their intentions, aren't looking for commitment, and they learned to say all the right things and manipulate women to get them in bed.

They value materialism, career status, fashion, travel, i.e. things that improve their perception on social media. And half the time, they need the approval of others and social media to move forward in a relationship.

purplish_possum · 2024-06-08T13:30:47+00:00

Men and women are different. Who knew?

Yeah, men don't get to be weak, men don't get to be anxious and emotional, men don't get to be scared little bunny rabbits. None of this is anything new. It's the way it's always been.

Title	Women put the bar higher for men than most would want for themselves.
Author	BrainMarshal
Upvotes	88
Comments	461
Date	June 8, 2024 3:57 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1dau21i/women_put_the_bar_higher_for_men_than_most_would/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-put-the-bar-higher-for-men-than-most-would.1520894 https://theredarchive.com/post/1520894

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