Why are Men are obligated to pay but women are not obligated todo anything?

Traditional_Lab1192 · 2025-12-06T19:02:38+00:00

This might piss a lot of people off but it’s because it is not hard to find. Even men who swear that they won’t pay on the first date, will do it for a woman that’s pretty enough to them. That was my bf before he met me. I had no idea that he commonly didn’t pay for most things in a relationship because he always did with me. Men, on the other hand, don’t have as much as an easy time finding a woman who will put out on the first date unless they’re talking for the explicit purpose of having a sexual relationship or he has enough game.

ladybird_00 · 2025-12-06T17:46:19+00:00

You can refuse to spend money on women and/or avoid women who feel entitled to your money. Some ladies are okay with splitting everything.

Windmill_flowers · 2025-12-06T19:06:01+00:00

I see a lot of responses in here saying, "just don't date those women".

I don't think that is the question
It DEFINITELY doesn't answer the 2nd part of the question.

OP - The answer to your question is that it is a vestige from the patriarchal societal norms of previous generations. The social contract was that the man pays for everything, and the woman will be arm candy and his muse. He's responsible for protecting and providing for her, she's responsible for satisfying him sexually, managing the home and raising kids.

Dependent-Tailor7366 · 2025-12-06T17:38:28+00:00

You don’t have to date women that want you to pay for dates. You can just straight up say no the way women say no.

zyzyverssaint · 2025-12-06T17:50:19+00:00

This is exactly why I refuse to allow men to pay for me, even a coffee. They think if they cover a $20 lunch tab that they’re entitled to stick things inside of me.

I don’t sell myself, but if I ever did, it damn sure wouldn’t be for a measly dinner. No man on earth could afford it.

I strongly encourage women to pay for themselves to avoid these tit-for-tat losers.

wild_squirrel_ · 2025-12-06T18:09:49+00:00

I don’t think men have to pay.

But if I did, I think paying for a meal isn’t equivalent to sex. I think most women who do think this way think the thing the woman contributes is getting dressed up, wearing makeup, etc. (which, again, is not something I personally think).

Either way paying for a meal is not equivalent to sex. I also think that frames sex as something that is for men.

lesliecarbone · 2025-12-06T17:40:30+00:00

Men are not obligated to pay for dates; women are not obligated to date men who don't pay for dates.

Tylikcat · 2025-12-06T18:31:08+00:00

Apparently just over half of women expect men to pay for dates - which means almost half do not.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/10/business/gen-z-dating-pay-etiquette.html

Appropriate-Map-7836 · 2025-12-06T18:21:12+00:00

Money and someone's body are not the same thing. Money comes and goes but someone having sex with you is far more intimate than spending $20-$40 on someone. I agree with everyone in the comments. Don't want to spend money? Don't do it and find someone to date who wants 50/50. But under no circumstances is spending money means there should be an expectation to access someone's body in an intimate way. You want that? There are entire service industries that tailor to that transaction

Mysterious-Lab-7408 · 2025-12-06T18:08:41+00:00

Don’t pay then. Communicate.

Available-Level-6280 · 2025-12-06T19:04:20+00:00

An entitled woman or a woman who expects to be spoiled even on a first date, to me, is sort of a red flag. It signals a lack of maturity to me. do not date a woman or a person whose expectations are wildly out of line with yours. I think this way of thinking is a holdover from patriarchal thinking that men are to provide. These type of women do not seem egalitarian or feminist at the core. But it's different if you have an established dynamic with a person.

belongtomee · 2025-12-06T18:45:48+00:00

Men want access to women. They want it more than women want access to men. They want to fuck. And chances are, you’re not the only man competing for the same woman.

If you don’t want to pay, then don’t. There are some women who accept 50/50 and others who don’t. Men have agency and aren’t being held at gunpoint to do anything they don’t want to.

Nobody likes to say it but the truth is, access to women is exclusive, men increase their chances of access by investing with their resources.

It’s the male bird tap dancing in hopes of getting the female. It’s the male bears fighting to the death in hopes of getting the female. It’s the strongest male lion who offers protection against other males that gets the pride. Some part of it is biological, males have to be useful or impressive if they want to mate, because it’s the female who carries all the risk once the mating is over.

Away-Performance3231 · 2025-12-06T19:23:10+00:00

There are plenty of women with money who aren’t as good looking and would be happy to pay for your date. Try dating one of those. We are lonely too

AngeAware · 2025-12-06T18:32:52+00:00

I'm from a part of the South where trad values are still pretty deeply ingrained in the culture, including the norm that the man pays first. To the point where a woman insisting on covering her food is treated as a nonverbal signal that she's not interested in future dates.

It's also worth noting that casual/fun dating isn't really a thing, from the point that one party knows that they would never marry the other it should be a wrap. Sex is going to be a long wait, potentially after marriage for those who are very dedicated to Christian values.

What about less traditional people who still participate in some variation of the ritual, you ask. See holidays. Christmas is coming up and not everyone who celebrates or acknowledges it in some way even believes in Christianity. But it's just so ingrained in western culture at this point celebration and some of the associated rituals continue to persist even if not all of the same beliefs and values are attached. I don't see a non-trad woman who wants the man to pay as much different from a non-Christian who celebrates Christmas in some fashion and wants a partner who does the same.

Bibibitch2002 · 2025-12-07T04:40:02+00:00

It’s one of those things in heterosexual dating that just doesn’t have a basis anymore in my opinion. It made more sense when marriage was an economic proposition and gender roles in courting were more clear cut.

I see dating back then as sort of a weird grooming ritual. Women didn’t have much choice but to get married to someone or they couldn’t survive on their own. So the guy would do “nice” and “chivalrous” things to show that he would care for her when she left her parents. It’s kind of a “pick me and you’ll be in good hands when I’m in charge of everything”. Paying, opening doors, small gifts, the ring, and a wedding where she feels like a princess. And then after marriage women became homemakers and had children, so more of an equal partnership in terms of workload but not autonomy.

In modern days, women have more rights obviously, so I don’t think women should expect that, unless they are more traditional. So if you’re pursuing women who want to be homemakers/believe in women being subservient, then yeah that’s what you’re gonna find and you shouldn’t be surprised. If her gender role hasn’t changed, why would yours?

If you don’t wanna pay, don’t pay. If you are okay with paying if you get sexual favors, why not just find a hooker? It’s the same thing really, whether you pay for dinner or pay her directly if sex is what you want as a result you are paying for sex.

Me personally, I go 50/50 because I don’t want to be a traditional wife. And I also don’t like feeling like a guy is paying because he wants access to my body. I pay on the first date just to see their reaction, and about 80% of the time it’s not one of gratitude. It’s usually them fighting me so they can pay when I don’t want them to do that. The harder I resist, the more they realize they lost their leverage to try and “treat me” into putting out. They’re not very nice after that

Lemon_gecko · 2025-12-06T17:39:51+00:00

Not all women. Not wanting to date someone because of something isn't entitlement, demanding that would be.

Anyway. Paying for a woman is a courtship ritual. I can agree with it or not, but it's not buying a woman. If you want to buy one - you know what you should do.

Beer4Blastoise · 2025-12-06T18:02:23+00:00

After we go 50-50 on coffee can we go 50-50 on pregnancy as well?

Poppy_Luvv · 2025-12-06T18:48:22+00:00

If a woman is with you on a date, she has already "done" something. She's with you, on a date. You got what you wanted. She obliged your request for her time.

Men pay because normally they're the ones asking a woman out. Not uncommonly, the woman took some persuasion to say yes. Paying is part of making a yes more attractive, as she won't be out money if she agrees.

With that said, be smart about who you ask out and you can get 50/50. A woman done up to the 9s prob wants you to pay, she knows what game she's playing and she's not playing in your league.

MyLastBestChance · 2025-12-06T19:45:41+00:00

If you don’t want to pay for dates and don’t want to date the women who don’t require that, don’t date🤷‍♀️. It’s not mandatory.

Not sure why you expect those women to change their expectations just because you want to date them. They have the choice to not date people who don’t want the same things that they do too, as well as the choice to not date at all if they can’t find anyone who wants the same things. Again, dating isn’t mandatory.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2025-12-06T18:00:52+00:00

Men aren’t obligated to do anything. If you don’t want to pay, don’t date someone who expects you to. If you come back and say “I can’t get dates with anyone who doesn’t expect it” you’re making a choice to go out with someone who expects you to do something

velvetalocasia · 2025-12-06T17:39:38+00:00

Paying for dinner doesn’t take away my right to my body. By the way, you are not obligated to pay for dinner…….

Novadina · 2025-12-06T17:49:28+00:00

You are not obligated to pay. It’s a dating behavior some people like, you are free to only date women who don’t expect it.

If you do decide to pay for a date - you aren’t purchasing sex, you are purchasing dinner or a movie or whatever you actually purchased. If you want to purchase sex, you should pay someone who is selling sex.

Disastrous_Agent9307 · 2025-12-06T21:08:16+00:00

I think men often willfully pretend this isn't what it is, so let me help you for yourself:

I don't expect a man to pay, I will simply choose the man who does.

Whatever you want from women, don't expect it, simply choose the woman who does whatever that thing is.

Aimeereddit123 · 2025-12-06T17:51:39+00:00

Lemme just tell you, if you didn’t grow up around women. By the time you pay 50 bucks on the meal, she has bought a date outfit, had her hair/nails done, possibly bought new makeup, maybe is paying for a sitter if she has children…. Dating is just as expensive for women.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2025-12-06T18:16:54+00:00

Obligated ≠ forced.

ThatBitchA · 2025-12-06T18:45:57+00:00

When I was dating, I only went on dates with men who paid.

What did I do in return? Show up, have a good time, and spend time with the man to determine if we want to do it again.

That's all I'm obligated to do on a date. Is to show up, have fun, and converse.

A date is an opportunity to get to know someone.

If you don't want to get to know someone, don't go on dates. Or don't go on dates with women who won't go 50/50, or whatever.

VenusNoire_ · 2025-12-06T19:39:54+00:00

You typically do get something in return…their time, attention, companionship and whatever else they have of value to bring to “the table”. Outside of the general reality that men typically benefit from m/f relationships more than women do and women typically perform more relational, emotional, sexual, domestic labor in relationships with men, it’s really dependent on the individual woman. It’s entirely optional to date women who want you to spend money on them. The majority of women are probably fine with 50/50 dynamics since it’s the norm.

I think the reason why this constant conversation around spending money on a woman is so gauche and uncomfortable to me is that in a realistic context where a man has to explicitly ask why he should do it, the actual reaction shouldn’t be an in depth explanation. If he doesn’t want to do it, you won’t convince him through arguments and debates. The conversation should probably be over (except in cases where someone is genuinely unfamiliar with it) because it will likely spiral into a weird transactional conversation that leads nowhere. The entire internet conversation around it is kind of sloppy.

Perfect-Reading-761 · 2025-12-06T17:38:33+00:00

This is not current. Most dates go Dutch nowadays

Financial_Leave4411 · 2025-12-06T19:20:43+00:00

It’s called traditional gender roles. We can’t both be the woman in the relationship. If a man wants to be the women in the relationship then he needs to do what women do: look for a man to pair up with.

Also out of curiosity why do men think women even want to go on dates or spend time with a man when she could choose instead to do something on her own or with her girlfriends instead? I get men go on dates to try to get laid but women need an incentive to do something risky and not exactly pleasant like going on a date with a man. Men paying for a date is just him showing that he could give the woman the lifestyle she wants just like seeing a woman’s figure on a date shows a man how hot she is which seems to be what men want.

ThotismSpeaks · 2025-12-06T19:35:00+00:00

Nobody is obligated to pay, but the fact that many men are willing to take on the burden of courting, planning dates, and paying for them means other men have to compete with them, and accept that they might fall behind in the race if they're not willing to do the same thing.

Dating isn't supposed to be 100% equitable, not can it be, because men and women are different.

NoDanaOnlyZuuI · 2025-12-07T14:43:42+00:00

According to a NerdWallet survey, most Americans (72%) agree that in a heterosexual couple, the man should pay on the first date. Interestingly, men are more likely to say this than women (78% vs. 68%).

The reason people react so strongly when men ask “what do we get in return” is that it sounds like you’re buying access to their body. Even if you don’t mean it that way, that’s how it sounds because of how often women run into guys who literally think paying means sex is owed.

If you don’t want to pay for a date, don’t. It’s not that hard. If that means you get fewer dates, so be it. You’re weeding out women you’re not compatible with.

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ArkNemesis00 · 2025-12-11T02:46:36+00:00

It was understood in previous decades that the man paying was the appropriate tradeoff for the addition time it tends to take women to get ready and the additional investment women tend to make in their appearance (they spend more money on clothes and cosmetics for dates).

Since men value a woman's beauty and women value the resources/resource earning potential of men, it was a way for them to both put their best foot forward and try to impress each other, so to speak.

Xiggyj · 2025-12-06T19:42:30+00:00

Just say no to paying. A woman can’t get you to do anything you don’t want. If she wants fancy dinners and that isn’t something you do, then she doesn’t get to go out with you. I do coffee or frozen yogurt for first dates, low investment/low cost for the first few dates until I’m sure she likes me enough to keep investing time into seeing me. If a woman likes you enough, you’d be surprised what type of dates she’ll be willing to go on. She would be there for YOU, not what you guys do.

Next-Character-2027 · 2025-12-07T10:10:27+00:00

Men have been, historically, the “chasers” and providers. That translates to initiating and paying for dates. Then there’s the issue of social etiquette. We generally pay for things we invite people to. I’ve never been billed for the meal at a dinner party, wedding, work event, etc. When the patriarchal view is that men are meant to be the initiators, they do more inviting. Social etiquette follows that they then pay.

That said, men shouldn’t feel obligated. It’s outdated. I think trading off on planning and paying is equitable (not to mention planning dates is fun). And nobody feels like they’re owed anything that way.

I also don’t think men should be villainized for having sex as a goal, when dating. Almost everybody wants sex eventually, when attraction and comfort are there. Men who think they’re owed sex after a $10 sandwich is what people villainize. It’s simply not comparable to the risk of STDs, pregnancy, and the emotional baggage that comes with jumping into bed with the wrong person too soon. We date to gauge compatibility and see where things go, not exchange sex for a meal.

middleoftheroad133 · 2025-12-07T14:13:14+00:00

Because men aren’t discriminatory and will swipe right on every woman. Women are trying to screen for men who are at the bare levels interested in them and willing to pay for the date demonstrates an entry level amount of tangible interests

Additionally, men will always pay for dates for women they like/find attractive and paying for dates helps ensure a man isn’t going on 20 dates a month (which is what men would do if they could)

Title	Why are Men are obligated to pay but women are not obligated todo anything?
Author	BlackRichard420
Upvotes	54
Comments	379
Date	December 6, 2025 5:31 PM UTC (7 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1pfuuhj/why_are_men_are_obligated_to_pay_but_women_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-are-men-are-obligated-to-pay-but-women-are-not.1568193 https://theredarchive.com/post/1568193

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