Why does therapy fail men on a large scale and what alternatives are there?

SomeSugondeseGuy · 2024-11-28T16:07:26+00:00

Men are shamed for expressing their feelings, shamed for thinking about their feelings, shamed for crying, etc.

For me at least - it's quite literally just a trauma response. Opening up HURTS. Everything in my brain has been conditioned to scream "get away get away get away", and so I do.

It took a long time for me to even be able to open up to my friends. I'd push them away because it's literally all I knew how to do. I spent years in talk therapy and lied more times than I can count.

I've been getting better at it, but it still hurts - it still feels like I'm opening myself up to be hurt - which has happened, but I'm doing my best to not let that turn me off of talking to people.

The alternative - aside from, y'know, NOT abusing our boys, is to give him something that makes him feel useful. Sure - it's a band-aid on a bullet hole, but it'll keep him happy enough.

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-11-28T16:11:25+00:00

alternatives

Physical activity.

Therapy methods which work for men have to be solution-oriented and provide results that can be measured in physical realm. Unfortunately most of clinical therapy available is talk & emotional coping.

MikeArrow · 2024-11-28T16:37:52+00:00

Not kidding, just regularly being able to cuddle with my girlfriend was more healing than any therapy session I've ever done.

deeznutz84847 · 2024-11-28T17:17:46+00:00

Working out, journaling and meditation are extremely beneficial when therapy fails

King_conscience · 2024-11-28T16:16:10+00:00

Therapy isn't bad but it ain't for everyone

slackforce · 2024-11-28T16:36:20+00:00

Everyone has a different coping mechanism. Some are healthy, some are not.

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here, but when I think of someone that champions therapy, I think of someone that really likes talking about themselves and being affirmed in one way or another. I think many guys know what their problem is, and also that talking about the problem isn't going to solve anything. How many times have you heard women complain about the guys in their lives, when presented with a problem, actually try to solve that problem as opposed to just talk about it? I really believe these things are related.

Using myself as an example, I know what my problem is. My problem is that most women want nothing to do with short men, and I am a short man. How can therapy help me with that? A therapist is either going to tell me I'm wrong, or suggest some banal meditation/manifesting/exercise bullshit. Regardless, paying someone to listen to me talk about tangible problems that have no tangible solutions is not an attractive prospect to me, and I think many guys feel similarly.

scwizard · 2024-11-28T17:16:56+00:00

I don't know if this is a men thing. I've heard so many stories of therapy badly failing women too.

Ecstatic-Sock8482 · 2024-11-28T16:15:40+00:00

I know guys who've gone to therapy to help deal with the fall out of a divorce. They were happy with the therapy and they found it essential for emotionally recovering from the situation.

hotpotato128 · 2024-11-28T16:23:11+00:00

I went to therapy for over a year. My psychologist said I don't have any mental illness. Therapy can be soothing.

aslfingerspell · 2024-11-28T19:11:38+00:00

I went to therapy for PTSD and it failed me, so I feel qualified to answer. Long story short (open to follow up/specifics if asked), I don't feel empowered talking to someone who can't directly solve my problem.

I was the victim of a crime: trying to sue the perpetrator or the police (who refused to charge them on discriminatory reasons) has been far more productive and helpful to my psyche than talking about my feelings.

Basically, I find solving problems makes me more happy than just coping with them. Doing legal research to sue government for civil rights violations, it turns out, is more empowering than any thought exercise or journal entry. Few things make me more happy than finding a case on point that directly shows what happened to me was actually wrong. Getting my feelings of injustice validated by a judge's ruling that I can show in someone's face saying "Yes, what happened to me was illegal." is better than getting validation from a therapist.

I also feel like public competition and fights are more empowering than private therapy. If I talk about my abuser or the police to a therapist, it's just me sharing my thoughts with a private citizen. On the other hand, lawyering up and publicizing the issue holds people accountable. It puts jobs, reputations, and money of the people who hurt me on the line. I get to hold their feet to the fire and demand accountability in a very concrete and actionable way. I get to counterattack and put the pain on them rather than just "heal" on my own. I can feel actually empowered to actually advocate for an outcome that I want rather than feel like I'm being gaslit into "self-acceptance" and being somehow happy with the bad guys getting away with the worst things that have ever happened to me.

Yes, I get it. Most people benefit from therapy but the people who don't need to be acknowledged, and I'm one of them. I also feel like therapy is marketed in a very patronizing and unhelpful way. "I hope you get the help you need." almost feels like the non-religious version of "thoughts and prayers", like a thing to say to almost dismiss someone's problems and relieve yourself of listening or concretely helping.

ZaWarudo234 · 2024-11-28T20:10:58+00:00

Most therapists in my area are women over 40. They're ability to empathize and understand what I'm going through is going to be limited to say the least.

DrunkOnRamen · 2024-11-28T16:19:52+00:00

I know a woman who is a therapist specializing in relationships that believes using men for money is perfectly ok.

K4matayon · 2024-11-28T18:51:44+00:00

Therapy worked great for me as a man and it saved me from taking my own life twice I don't think it's necessarily not for men but maybe it works better with certain problems or types of people

ACE_Overlord · 2024-11-28T19:41:53+00:00

I am seeing a therapist for a very specific issue. It has been very beneficial, but I specifically WANT to improve.

My culture is very anti-therapy and anti-mental health.

ScrimmyBingusTwo · 2024-11-28T16:55:51+00:00

As someone who's tried therapy for a long time with basically zero improvement I can answer this:

No amount of therapy is going to fix the way other people treat you.

Almost all women living in the west are basically guaranteed relationships, educational opportunities + careers through DEI programs (even white women from well-off families) so all CBT really has to do is make them realize how to take advantage of these opportunities.

Men with psychological problems that stem from being below-average in look, heights, social-status, income, social skills, etc. are basically unfixable because no amount of self-talk or rationalization will fix how society views and treats you.

bread93096 · 2024-11-28T16:50:05+00:00

I’m not sure therapy is helping women that much either. Many women are disappointed by therapy, or they continue for months/years without significant improvements in their mental well being. Therapy just kind of sucks as a means of addressing mental health issues, which are usually caused by external circumstances.

Randomwoowoo · 2024-11-28T15:49:59+00:00

CBT therapy is very helpful for “men” who don’t seem to benefit from talk therapy. But it takes 10 years to get accredited for. One of the longest accreditations in medicine.

CBT is helpful for many men because it is based in tasks and lists, (to put it mildly) which many men benefit from.

Talk therapy is clinically proven to help men as well, but the mindset is that it doesn’t, which is sad

luckybuck2088 · 2024-11-28T20:44:05+00:00

There are some studies out there worth a google that the current model of therapy is not only not helping men, it’s bad for them

They are worth a read

Hi-Road · 2024-11-28T17:37:34+00:00

I wouldn’t say fail, but just like how not all learning styles may work great for all people, the some of the more common modes of therapy (talk therapy) can see many men not respond to it positively. Because of how we were raised / environment we grew in we all have different challenges

SpiritedAd4051 · 2024-11-28T19:18:04+00:00

In the right set and setting and with measures taken to maximize value of the experience (journaling extensively before hand, having some clear intentions, personally I like having a sketch pad and a voice recorder handy) large doses of mescaline / lsd / psylocobin. Follow up with integration and more journaling (importantly if you do a large enough dose the dreams you have over the next few weeks and even months can be as interesting and useful as the trip itself).

Also, start therapy a week or two after the trip. Source N=1. Quit vaping after one trip. Moderate shift in personality towards extroversion and openness that persists 2-3 years later. Lingering increase in cognitive / mental flexibility that was strong the few days after and gradually declined over the following 6-12 months (think Hariss snow globe analogy)

BobtheArcher2018 · 2024-11-28T16:14:47+00:00

I'm not sure anybody needs therapy. Men, in general, are the more fragile sex when it comes to requiring proper social structures to thrive. I think our current social structures are bad, and so particularly bad for men. Men need to be anchored in common activity/task based groups with other local men, where there is no weird business divide between what is personal and what isn't. This will then create and anchor real male friendships. Without that, it is natural for men to not make male friendships as naturally or organically was women create relationships with other women.

babazuki · 2024-11-28T16:50:40+00:00

Men need male spaces to connect and readjust and say things and feel things that women may find offensive. But men just can't get that shit now without women invading. Gyms, military, sports teams, certain jobs.

Just always catering to women's needs now. No relent. They just barge in and tell everyone they deserve to be there

neinhaltchad · 2024-11-28T19:56:24+00:00

I know he’s kind of “manosphere adjacent” but the best explanation I’ve heard about this comes from this exchange segment on “Modern Wisdom” with Chris Williamson.

Why most therapists don’t understand male depression

But the gist of it is:

Men avoid therapy because therapy models are not designed around the male way of thinking.

Therapy models that focus on helping men feel “heard” over restoring their sense of personal power

Men are averse to feeling pitied and thus pursue solutions over feelings talk.

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wtknight · 2024-11-28T17:35:52+00:00

So if therapy/bad therapists/talking about their problems doesn't seem to be "right" for men, what alternatives are there?

Western men can always save up money and go overseas and meet women there. Non-western men are usually closer to their families than western men, so they have that.

Parrotsandarmadillos · 2024-11-28T18:02:10+00:00

Therapists are like people. Lotta bad ones and only a few good ones. Finding a good one is tricky. Most men don’t even go to therapy anyway so we can’t really say it’s failing them if they don’t at least try.

Livid-Log7463 · 2024-11-28T19:41:56+00:00

Because men’s problems are widely not from within themselves but opposed on them so why talk about something you can’t change by thinking about or feeling differently.

Alana_Laseter · 2024-11-28T20:50:30+00:00

I am skeptical of psychological therapy. I don't believe it's "scientific", or at least not as scientific as medical therapy. You can objectively measure blood pressure, cardiac frequency, blood concentration of white cells, red cells, minerals, proteins, hormones etc. You can objectively observe if a bone is broken.

You can't objectively measure feelings, you can't objectively observe thoughts. You can't objectively define a psychological therapy like you can do the substance and concentration of a medication. When studies say psychological therapy is "effective", I am left wondering, what therapy? What exact words does the therapist has to say to be effective? What frequency of sessions and how much time per session? Is it effective in every patient or only those with certain socioeconomic or personal conditions?

I don't believe psychology is science. That being said, I don't believe something has to be scientific to be useful. A sports trainer can help you improve in sports without science. A therapist can help you improve your life or your mental health without science. Even the mere act of talking to someone about your problems, letting it out, is already better than bottling them up.

kvakerok_v2 · 2024-11-28T21:35:59+00:00

Modern therapy is trash for men. Absolute dumpster fire-grade garbage.

A man's evolutionary advantage is his capability to operate in physically or psychologically hostile environments, while under stress. Overwhelmingly vast majority of women are not only incapable of that, they'll find even the idea of that unappealing. This stems from male vs female bonding behavioral patterns.

Let's say a task is to be performed by two separate groups. One is all men, the other is all women.

Men bond by participating in a task together, working in proximity to each other, sharing insights into the task, how to perform it better, faster, etc. All those "No way! You could do it like that?" videos you see on social networks are made for men. A typical comment heard from a man would be factual, eg: "Bro, wtf are you doing? That's a left-handed thread. Just turn the bolt the other way."

Women bond by talking about how they feel about the task, exchanging their feelings about each other and their relational impressions about each other's performance of the task. The same comment in a woman's group would be: "Monica, I feel that we are experiencing a lack of progress in the bolt unscrewing. Let's try exploring left-handed thread possibilities."

In comparison, ALL of today's therapy is focused on experiencing and communicating your feelings. It's made for women. In order to benefit from such therapy, a man needs to adopt a woman's mindset. That automatically fails him in masculinity and makes him completely unattractive to women for the purposes of reproduction or even LTR.

Unless a man is a schizophrenic with female sub-personalities, any modern mainstream therapy will only be detrimental to him, either psychologically or SMV-wise.

I can write up how a proper therapy should look like for men, but it'll be a very long post and I'll only do it if people ask explicitly for it.

Podlubnyi · 2024-11-28T22:11:17+00:00

Therapy is female-dominated and primarily for women. While there are exceptions, it generally doesn't help men.

Capital_Capsicum · 2024-11-29T01:17:02+00:00

When someone tells a man to go therapy, what they really mean is "go find someone else to fix your problems, because I don't want to".

Most men have practical problems. And most of those problems are caused, and thus solved, by the other people around you. Talking to a medical professional in private about it isn't going to help.

What a man wants is to be part of a community. To matter in that community. He wants everyone who he's around to check up on him, ask him how he's doing, offer sympathies where needed, offer friendship and bonding as an act of courtesy. Which is what being part of a community is all about.

It's a general fact that communities have been destroyed, and replaced by tightly curated cliques. Blue pillers will want to chime in "oh I'm always checking in on my male friends and husband". Yeah, because they are part of your clique. What's stopping you from breaking the barriers of your clique, and letting others in so they can be a part of something? The answer is you, and your own personal anxieties.

Maybe if everybody went to some form of therapy, where they were taught to be trusting and helpful of others, therapy would work. But that's just a pipe dream.

EminemLovesGrapes · 2024-11-28T17:06:30+00:00

It's not so much that they prefer somethig over threapy. It's that "just go to therapy" is a non-answer that's just meant to wave away whatever issues you have.

What would be a women's equivalent? Maybe a guy saying "If you don't want to be cat called don't dress provocatively" kinda in a similar way interpreting the issue through one lens and then telling you "I don't care, fuck off".

Tren_troll · 2024-11-28T17:45:27+00:00

Men are naturally action-oriented and are happy when they are doing things, not talking about them. Dealing with the source of distress instead of talking about it is the best option. After that, lifting, chopping firewood, eating lots of food, working on personal projects, gaming, reading, watching TV are all good options for emotional management.

Men in general shouldn't buy into the "emotional vulnerability" and "men can cry too" narratives, they are not healthy for you. Being able to shrug off bad emotional states and not care about them is something that men can just naturally do. Cultivate this skill and use it.

Eastoss · 2024-11-28T18:17:23+00:00

Therapy is here to help coping.

Men's issues are generally real issues, not self inflicted issues like most of women's issues. Therefore therapy isn't generally a good thing for men. The problem with that is people are generally trying to deny men's issues are real and keep thinking it's self inflicted.

Men are meant to be rebellious when things aren't right for them. Coping mechanisms aren't going to help for that either.

Verdict: Multiple layer of misandry sustaining each others to create that beautiful result that is "therapy fail men".

berichorbeburied · 2024-11-28T17:50:21+00:00

Therapy is literally stupid

It’s for people who want to cope with their situation or need to “learn” how to “accept” their situation.

And is mostly related with the outcome goal of “feeling” or “being” emotionally happy or calm/peaceful

Which is why one related pathway of therapy is prescribing drugs

They are not helping you with or fixing your problems

If someone is helping you or fixing your problems

It’s not called therapy

It’s called

HELP

Do men need help? YES

Do men need therapy? NO

If the end result is for you to say men need to help themselves.

Then men don’t need therapy

If the end result is to say men need help

Then men don’t need therapy. As therapy is not help

Talking to someone will never solve your problems

Let’s run a thought experiment

Let’s say a man needs money

How will therapy help him get money?

It won’t

Another thought experiment

Let’s say a man’s family member dies

How will therapy help that situation?

It won’t

If people are emotionally and mentally weak and need to cope or feel happy. Then fine talking and therapy and drugs can help

If you need actual help and need to fix your problems and need solutions and etc. therapy will never help

Therefore men being more logical

Don’t want or see the point of therapy

RushtyTinker · 2024-11-28T22:10:43+00:00

There's different kinds of therapies, there's ones that work perfectly fine for men; you don't need to tag something as therapy for it to be good for your mental health either. You're never going to remove the mental health stigma for men, I don't think the people that claim to care about men's mental health even want that either, if they did they'd act on being more accommodating rather than putting men down for rejecting something pandered towards women. I see it on reddit all the time, once saw a woman blame men's self destruction rates on their inability to look inwards and self reflect, which women apparently do all the time... in therapy?

I grew up in a really hectic place with really hectic people, I can tell you from experience that one of the most irritating and quite frankly disgusting things me and the men around me dealt with was people telling us to go to therapy. The government blowing money on inclusive therapy groups then shutting them down wondering why men haven't shown up to sit in a circle and talk to people from all walks of life about their issues. I'm sure talking to Vanessa with her background in HR and psychology is really going to help Séan and his debilitating PTSD, sure his family being blown to pieces is just a part of his journey, he has to remember his breathing exercises.

It doesn't bother me as much anymore, but people seriously need to stop projecting the female psyche onto men and vice versa. Men are natural problem solvers, we like feeling in control, we're actively working towards something we can physically see and feel; that's why group building projects at men's sheds work so well. Building trust through working with animals is great too, actually helped me stop heavily abusing substances. That being said crushing a pint and shooting the shit with the boys has been thousands of times more helpful to me than paying way too much money to someone that gets paid way too much that'd prescribe me an SSRI before admitting that things are fucked, all so they can afford another beamer to sit outside their cushy office.

Telling men to go to therapy is about is a useless as telling them to learn how to be happy alone when everything is priced for a couple. It's always advice dished out by people that don't practice what they preach as well. If you haven't spent your entire life alone, stop telling people to learn how to be alone.

Solondthewookiee · 2024-11-28T16:36:59+00:00

Who besides red pillers is saying therapy is failing men on a large scale?

AreOut · 2024-11-28T21:04:41+00:00

for men therapy is motorbikes and gym

downvoted_for_woman · 2024-11-28T22:00:13+00:00

Therapy fails men because it's a field dominated by women. Women have no interest in seeing men get better.

Title	Why does therapy fail men on a large scale and what alternatives are there?
Author	throwawaycat64
Upvotes	37
Comments	374
Date	November 28, 2024 3:04 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1h1xvbv/why_does_therapy_fail_men_on_a_large_scale_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-does-therapy-fail-men-on-a-large-scale-and.1537105 https://theredarchive.com/post/1537105

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