Let’s focus on the women who are “choosing the wrong men” first.
A lot of men say that there’s a large group of women who are choosing the wrong type of men to mate with. The thug, the loser, the bad boy, the fuckboy. Statistically, or maybe stereotypically, these are the type of men to pump and dump. These are the men who are assumed to be creating the rise in single motherhood.
So, let’s ask the question. If these men are bad men. Why are women picking them? I would argue. That for a large group of women, there are no real tangible consequences to choosing these “bad” men. We live in an age where most women are financially independent. Therefore, a man in the traditional sense has less value to her. Additionally, even if she wasn’t financially independent, while this might seem cliche or sexist, she does have the government and social institutions available to assist her. Welfare, child support, shelters, etc.
I would argue. That women have actually lowered their standards. Due to women not being as reliant on men for survival on an individual level. Women are less picky and less anxious about their choice of a mate. Who cares if the loser across the street knocks you up. Just put him on child support. Now I’m not saying all women or even the majority of women are doing this or think like this. I don’t think like this. But that women know they have the option. Which gives them the ability to care less about the status of their mate.
That if women were actually being picky. Then the 80/20 would be in place and would actually be justified. Most modern men are not deserving of a family. In the sense of they do not have the means to protect or provide for a family. Most men are making on average around 40-50k a year. It’s hard to raise even a family of 3 in most of the us with this salary.
It does need to be said that a lot of women also don’t deserve to have a family. A lot of women are horrible moms, don’t know how to care for kids/a family and are incredibly ignorant and selfish to put their children through poverty and the disadvantages of a single parent household.
But just like women should be raising their standards and stop having relationships with men who aren’t worthy. Men should stop simping and nutting in women they wouldn’t want to be with long term. Men need to raise their own standards. If men would also raise their standards as women raised theirs. Everybody would be on almost equal footing. Instead. Men will sleep with any women which only incentives women to be on the single mom train since she can get knocked up by a “high value man”.
A lot for these ideas have been floating around the sub and relationship debate social media sites. But I want to sort of bring all the ideas together to highlight how men are sort of causing their own issues. And simultaneously making their perceived issues worse
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Women prioritize it too. I have seen quite a lot of women on here comment how important the sexual aspect of their relationship is. Thus it was also important for them to "test the gear" before "buying" it so to say. Though, we men have to only blame ourselves. We didn't shunned the ones who treated women as objects, now women are treating us as less than objects. We men simply fucked ourselves.
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There is an even simpler rule. Worked pretty well in the past centuries. Wait for marriage.
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If you think that women are being too picky that’s fine. The issue for men is that men have allowed women to be too picky.
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Not to say that you’re entirely wrong, but I think the mentality you refer to could be more accurately summarised as “if you insist on choosing questionable partners where you had ample information to know or suspect this ahead of time, don’t expect much sympathy when you decide to cry about the consequences later”
This can be applied to men too - I would say the same to a guy who insists on getting into relationships with women with a ton of overt red flags. But given that broadly speaking, men are not the “pickers” so to speak, that is where that idea comes from.
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Some truth to that. Absolutely men should also be more cautious of who they choose to engage with. However, some consideration should probably be given to the fact that generally speaking, average men are not the party with an abundance of options compared to the reverse. It does not absolve them of their responsibility, no question. But let’s not pretend the base conditions for both sides are even remotely comparable in the aggregate.
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Again, some agreement that men should exercise firmer standards. But that is awfully easy to say for someone like myself (who does not desire it anymore), or for an average woman who in the modern day generally speaking has far more options if she chooses to put herself out there. People like myself and many average women aren’t exactly in a “starvation” mindset when it comes to sex/relationships/attention, and thus it’s far easier for people in that kind of position to tell those who are that THEY are the ones who are lagging on their responsibilities generally speaking.
EDIT - as for men simping too much, I completely agree. But I wonder how happy women broadly speaking would be if tons of men instantly switched overnight closer to my position? Would they be happy with that result? I strongly suspect they wouldn’t like it one bit.
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Because MGTOW’s love it when women vet for character traits that turn out good dads and providers?
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Men reject those women because they find them yucky, not moral character reasons.
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Wrong. It’s not morals it’s just feeling neurotic and inadequate compared to other men and around women who have autonomy.
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Only neurotic guys do. Confident guys assume they’re the best she ever had.
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Yeah guys don’t like it when women do that either
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I already did, we’re married and expecting. But men on PPD don’t like it when women vet for character.
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I’m sure there are other factors too, obviously. But let’s not pretend that the vast majority of women seem to prefer and seek out men who have some degree of success with women. Very few women want a guy that nobody else seemingly does.
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Oh let me be totally clear. For those rare women right at the bottom of the 1-10 scale who genuinely have trouble getting anything at all (and I mean getting nothing, not simply not getting exactly what they want) in terms of male attention, I have the utmost sympathy for. Any human being who cannot in anyway sate the desire for companionship and romance/attention/whatever is hurting, and often far more than others not in that position realise.
This is simply a question of emphasis, given that there are FAR more men under that umbrella than the reverse. But those women who are, yes they are hurting. No question.
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Male.
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[–]Gabrielvrape 14 points15 points16 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology 5 points6 points7 points (4 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Orange_PaisleyNARWHALT 12 points13 points14 points (7 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Bandit174🦝 16 points17 points18 points (8 children) | Copy Link
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[–]mantapacktribefinnish ex-fuckboy feminist 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Neptune-Jr 12 points13 points14 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]wateroclockNo Pill 7 points8 points9 points (14 children) | Copy Link
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[–]FizzleMateriel 33 points34 points35 points (47 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Teflon08191 18 points19 points20 points (35 children) | Copy Link
[–]RayRayGD[S] 9 points10 points11 points (13 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Individual-March8163 4 points5 points6 points (5 children) | Copy Link
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[–]FizzleMateriel 7 points8 points9 points (13 children) | Copy Link
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[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]FizzleMateriel 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]ChaddamhuseinPost body before calling me an incel 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]mantapacktribefinnish ex-fuckboy feminist -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Reasonable_Spinach53 6 points7 points8 points (25 children) | Copy Link
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[–]IceC194 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
You think that the economy should have men earning much more than women on average? Or egalitarianism dying down and women having to be SAHM without a choice?
Also only looks and money matter? You're not going to resolve the "single mothers abandoned by an asshole deadbeat" without factoring in the guy's character and behaviour.
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[–]The_Meep_Lord 5 points6 points7 points (18 children) | Copy Link
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[–]IceC192 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
You're talking about a specific subset of people there. Most people having casual sex are not impregnating themselves.
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[–]cowfishAreReal 16 points17 points18 points (13 children) | Copy Link
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[–]PunjabiPakistaniRed Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]TheBookOfSeilYou are the spoon 5 points6 points7 points (17 children) | Copy Link
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[–]TheBookOfSeilYou are the spoon 0 points1 point2 points (13 children) | Copy Link
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[–]TheBookOfSeilYou are the spoon 3 points4 points5 points (10 children) | Copy Link
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[–]TheBookOfSeilYou are the spoon 2 points3 points4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
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[–]TheBookOfSeilYou are the spoon 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]cvslengthbucketlist 5 points6 points7 points (6 children) | Copy Link
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[–]ChangeUsernameA1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Aren't financially successful men the 20% of men that majority of women are chasing for ?
Most women want financially successful guys , the problem is that alot of these guys have alot options and they exercise these options. (Which makes them "bad boys" like athletes and celebrities)
True , the fuck boy does grow out of that phase and decides to be loyal to one women. But during the fuckboy phase, he was being chosen by multiple women. Many hearts were broken.
[–]SuperSupremeKaiGrey 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Valuable_Ice9731No Pill - Only Liquid Drugs 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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