What would “society being honest with men” look like?

maam9243 · 2022-11-20T10:49:45+00:00

I think that society deliberately does not nurture qualities that would serve both men and women in this arena. The reasons are varied from as simple as good parenting is hard to do to as controversial as perhaps the ruling classes are trying to cull the herds. An important reason is the role of fathers has in effect been erased in child development. Both boys and girls are thus relatively ignorant of what are appropriate expectations of the opposite gender.

The "be nice and polite" advice is good for establishing identity and trust within a community; in other words, men have to convince other men and women that they are not an immediate threat. At the same time, we live in a world where there are threats everywhere. Many women look to men to provide some degree of protection from existing threats, whether they be the natural elements, animalistic, or man-made. If you are therefore universally non-threatening to all living things at all times, you will not be seen as an asset. I think it's fair to say that women can often choose men the way men choose weapons; go with the model you either need or like the most or have the most experience with or dislike the least, depending on your situation. And yes, some people would rather die than be stuck with a loose cannon and some people love the drama.

The "just be yourself" advice is meant to help you identify your core values and strengths while being honest about your limits and weaknesses. Any self worth being takes some time to cultivate and maintain. The self-respect that you build in doing so is more important than the external validation that women or other people can give. All this to say that if your core motivation in life is "get women," at best you will get women whose reasons for being with you will also be summarily hollow and probably unsatisfying. At worst you will fail in some tortured quest of wanting to share and perpetuate life without even being able to articulate why life should continue at all.

TL:DR Men have to decide for themselves what makes them men and what makes their lives have meaning, independent of what their society and women say about them. If men continue to define themselves by social status a.k.a. their attractiveness to the opposite sex, we all will continue to live in this hell.

techr0nin · 2022-11-20T01:55:09+00:00

Sparta but with smartphones.

villarconstante · 2022-11-20T14:00:25+00:00

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_Remember_me_not_ · 2022-11-20T06:57:23+00:00

Actual equality in law, society and also charities and government actually promoting men's shelter for domestic violence victims, sexual assault/false case victims support to name a few.

Same thing when no one wants to change it: revolution.

Holden_Frame · 2022-11-20T02:47:14+00:00

There are a bunch of things, but there are a couple of good examples of men hearing "raw honesty" about women in movies and of course, rap lyrics that I can remember:

Example 1: Dazed and Confused

You know that Julie chick? Loves you. You want her? Gotta play it cool, you know. You can't let her know how much you like her, cause if she knows, she'll dump you like that. Believe me. Like, if she asks you if you want a ride, you say, "No, I've got my own ride, but maybe I'll see you later." Sounds stupid, doesn't it? It works.

Example 2: Swingers

Look, you take yourself out of the game, you start talking about puppy dogs and ice cream, of course its going to end up on the friendship tip.

Come here a second, listen. Now look it. When you go up to talk to her, man, I don't want you to be the guy in the PG-13 movie everyone's really hopin' makes it happen. I want you to be like the guy in the rated R movie, you know, the guy you're not sure whether or not you like yet. You're not sure where he's coming from. Okay?

Example 3: Pimp Shit - Too Short

He used to give the girls his lunch money when he was young

For a kiss on the cheek, he thought it was fun

I knew he'd be a real trick one day

Lettin' girls ride his bike, let 'em win when they play

He was soft, and females made him week

When you got no game, the only way to make 'em freak

Is to pay em, and that's what he grew up and did

He won't lie, ask him what he do for a bitch

Spend cash, just to get some ass

He tried to marry a ho, but the shit didn't last

He broke the golden rule, I hope you never try it

His own wife, own house, and he still had to buy it

Now, that's fucked up, but that's the life of a trick

Be a sucker for a bitch and she'll suck your dick

I know he loves her, I don't doubt him

She pulled out his money, said "I love things about him"

Other things I'd tell a young man struggling:

Never, ever simp. It can turn into a lifelong habit and curse
It's always better to risk being called creepy than not trying at all
Showing neediness is repellent to women. Err on the side of aloof. Fake it if you must.
If a woman ever tells you looks don't matter, you must understand this means looks aren't all that matter but are merely a requirement for her to even consider the rest of your "personality"
Women are drawn to men / boys who get the attention of other women / girls
Be excellent at something and do it in a visible, but not showboating way in front of women
Women often like aggressive / assertive men despite saying otherwise
Women will make exceptions to their 'rules' for men that they are attracted to. Be that man.
Women will test you as a man. Know how to navigate these tests.

etc.

Nothing about "women are evil" in their, but simply information about the actual dynamics would be nice.

Also, speaking of Swingers, I'd sit any boy over the age of 12 down and watch the entire "Nikki" sequence until he could explain precisely what Mikey did wrong and why.

Part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiJhnVaHXjo

Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU3Pk6oDNRU

Aromatic_Shop9033 · 2022-11-20T06:46:24+00:00

Most women are just as selfish as men. They are not innocent. They are capable of just as much cruelty.

Proceed accordingly from this moment forward.

throaway-user · 2022-11-20T02:22:24+00:00

I would have liked for them to have been more upfront about my being a problem from the very start. Growing up reading and hearing stories about women being made uncomfortable because of creepy guys, overly-insistent men, overly-sexual men. And then I saw with my own two eyes men saying things that I thought for sure would get them slapped, thrown water on, maybe even arrested, and the women were actually being receptive and smiling behaving the same way with them.

It took until my mid-twenties for me to realize that all those articles and videos and news pieces weren't women complaining about men in general, they're talking about me specifically and men similar to me. And they're completely fine with some men, that they've judged fine by whatever metric, behaving so forwardly with them.

obviousredflag · 2022-11-20T16:40:05+00:00

What is misrepresented about hypergamy is, that overall it's still equal desirability between the woman and the man she can get into a long term relationship. The woman in a hypergamy situation marries up in social status (something that is worth much to her) but she brings something to the marriage that is worth a lot for the man who married her. Usually, beauty and youth are traded for social status, it's a win-win situation ,since men don't care about social status that much.

Women are NOT marrying up in the desirability hierarchy. Couples are equal in desirability.

Don't worry, men know about the importance of masculine frame, physique, height, looks, status and assertiveness severely underplayed in the mainstream narrative. Male role models and idols are representing those traits. But knowing that improving on those traits would raise their desirability is really not enough to actually make them do it. We all know our fit selves would be more attractive and have higher social status than our dad-bod selves. Yet, we do not change it, because it comes at a cost.

The second misreprentation is, that men who are not "maxxing" the attractive traits are not getting women. They are getting women who are just as desirable as they are themselves. Sometimes, men want more desirable women and then they need to become more desirable themselves.

So, nothing changes when the "mainstream narrative" would very clearly speak about mate choice dynamics and attractive traits of men and women. We do know that already and there are reasons we do not all strive for maximum attractiveness.

warramite · 2022-11-21T01:20:40+00:00

Less simps. Less flowers and dinner dates, more "we gon fuck or nah"

SolidPuzzleheaded984 · 2022-11-20T04:24:33+00:00

Majority of men would stop participating in society.

Because the truth is, is that majority of men will not be in relationships that they want.

The lie that levelling up and you’ll get what you want is the false hope sold to them.

shmikwa10003 · 2022-11-20T05:41:10+00:00

"An entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't."

mvnnyvevwofrb · 2022-11-20T03:15:39+00:00

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villarconstante · 2022-11-20T05:54:55+00:00

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Isolation_Man · 2022-11-20T13:18:45+00:00

Male kids should be informed about the extreme importance of looks. When you tell a boy that personality matters, and that if he keeps studying, keeps getting used to be a virtuous person (patient, generous, respectful, hard working, etc) and keeps socializing he will eventually get a gf, you are lying and making him suffer for no reason. I know i won't have kids, but if i do, I'll make them care A LOT about their physical appearance, because women only care about that. They should not spend their time reading, studying, learning languages, meditating, volunteering, writing, etc. Like i did. That was a mistake caused by cultural dishonesty. As a male, you can be the champion of culture and virtue if you want, a morally engaged intellectual, and no woman will ever give a shit about it if you don't look like a model. Uncultured criminals have many partners because they are tall and attractive. That's how the world works, thinking otherwise is delusional.

gate18 · 2022-11-20T15:27:35+00:00

I know/feel this sub wants to isolate dating pussy/dick away from the world, hence you get cherry-picked links that can be easily contradicted when you look at the world at large.

Similarly here. "society" isn't being dishonest with men.

Society is dishonest with everyone. Hence, there are tons of women that believe in the same lies. For example, I've heard women say she wished she was a virgin for her man! The myth that men should seek virginity in women is swallowed by women also

If society was honest with these people (with all of us), GOD, the entire political, educational, and capitalist system would transform

Because the lies related to gender aren't in a vacuum. Take what Musk is asking tweeter workers to do. If not for the macho work ethic bullshit, he would be ashamed to ask people to work long hours. Since LIFE IS NOT ABOUT SLAVING AWAY FOR A COMPANY. But how many men see their self-worth in being hard workers? women are/might be slowly catching up, but because men were the workhorses (or dogs) and the women housewives, they were/are exploited

Jordan Peterson. To "defend" men. Wrote that we should show gratitude towards men that work in shitty jobs!

But if you ask those men that wake up at 5am and work in oil rigs and home at 8pm just to sleep if they give a FUCK whether "wokes" clap for them, they wouldn't. What they would love is what neither Peterson nor any non-woke wants for them - better pay and better working conditions.

So society would be completely different.

Patriarchy, male toxicity, female beauty standards, female bitchiness, Karens, women that don't want to pay on a date, laws that favor women in custody battles for the kids, laws that don't believe rape victims, racist laws, Hustle culture, fan-only pages, getting killed trying to take that great photo for instagram...

All connected.

But nope. Just show a bit of gratitude, and if you are a woman "shut up" and men are fine. They would happily slave away - after all the hard, backbreaking work is for men (and animals). If you don't believe it, look at lobsters.

Kore624 · 2022-11-20T02:08:12+00:00

Why do people always assume women are lying when we say we don't want a massive body builder guy who doesn't show emotions and lives to work?

Society is becoming more honest. If we went back to only preaching gender roles and hyper masculinity, there would be more instances of toxic masculinity, where men take things too far to try and fit into that box.

It would lead to bad relationships, since the man would always be faking it to achieve some masculine ideal that no one actually wants. Men would become just the sperm donors, wallets, and dictators of the family once again. More and more women would be accused of lying when they say they've been abused because "they secretly like the attention" and "men naturally cannot help themselves".

If we instead become more honest, there would be less pressure to perform your assigned gender roles, women wouldn't expect men to perform masculinity at all times and would be more accepting. More male-centered resources would be available like shelters and mental health resources.

mvnnyvevwofrb · 2022-11-20T03:27:34+00:00

How shallow women are and how little they actually care about relationships. And they really only care about status and material things. And what is hypergamy and how important male physique is. People say it's not true but it is glaringly, hit yourself in the face true.

People should also be taught about the dangers of relationships, like what is narcissism. And what is insecure attachment style. Like the psychological stuff that some people think is "obvious", and other people are completely clueless about.

Warm_Gur8832 · 2022-11-20T02:24:07+00:00

Not much different.

Quite simply, I think the truth of the matter is that women and men are typically striving to do the best they can to fit their honest inner lives into their surface outer roles.

All of this constant talk about biological essentials neglects the fact that those apparent essentials are not all that simple.

Even if we take all of the red pill concepts at face value - beta and alpha, hypergamy, height and physical build, dominance and submission, whatever the hell else - the fact is that the social context matters a lot.

In a society that is gentler and rewards “softer” behavior, the politically correct simp is going to be the “alpha” and likely more “high status”, than the angry burly lumberjack guy.

EBZ1722 · 2022-11-20T05:55:34+00:00

It would look like this: men, with the way society is structured now, most of you are fucked. Your only hope is to change this society for the better.

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bottleblank · 2022-11-20T03:18:15+00:00

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DeepFriedhentaiMemes · 2022-11-20T03:37:01+00:00

to be totally honest most PEOPLE suck. not more men than women or anything like that. But the truth of the reality is that if you are stuck in the "incel" mindset for ease of paraphrasing, then you very likely are just jealous, bitter, and probably have a pretty glaringly obvious issue to anyone who takes the time to look. None of the above are traits that most people find attractive and thus the conversation continues.

swordfishrenegade · 2022-11-20T02:42:55+00:00

The truth? The hard, cold, depressing truth?

You can fuck any woman you want if you have enough game. All the shit they sell you about status, money, clothes, is all supplemental, not elemental.

Doesn’t matter if she’s married, on an airplane, or at Target at 11am on a Tuesday. There is an entire world, a secret society, of sex that’s happening around us every single day. And just like Fight Club, your friends don’t talk about it, women don’t talk about it, but those who know, know.

How do you get there? You have to do the work. Most men aren’t willing to do the work, and so they never ever see the truth about the world and what’s really happening out there.

It’s a brutal truth that most would prefer to pretend doesn’t exist, because it hurts too much to know how badly they’re missing out.

AntiHypergamist · 2022-11-20T01:58:42+00:00

Probably a lot less morally degenerate, less crime, less poverty, and less wealth inequality. Far left propaganda outlets around the world would be screeching nonstop.

kvakerok · 2022-11-20T11:40:42+00:00

There would be way less gaslit, disillusioned men who are currently in various stages of consuming blue pill bullshit. Thus there would be less shootings, less suicides, male-to-male relationships would be more cutthroat, male-to-female relationships would be even more transactional. More arranged marriages, the whole "romance" and "love" would fall by the wayside. Massive male and female segregation in all facets of life (it's already starting really).

kinhk · 2022-11-20T03:30:18+00:00

Like a fnf comment section.

alchemist10000 · 2022-11-20T04:00:18+00:00

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Twomilup · 2022-11-20T01:55:24+00:00

Grind more for women and Chad's benefit slave, and put a smile on your face while you're at is

BluePearl2020 · 2022-11-20T05:41:18+00:00

You're actually not automatically the best because you have a y chromosome.

pikecat · 2022-11-20T15:41:48+00:00

What's with this expectation that someone in charge should do or tell you things?

No one is in charge. There's just random people telling other people what they want to hear. Truth doesn't sell.

If you want something that doesn't exist, you have to do it yourself.

iamatwork24 · 2022-11-20T16:59:50+00:00

The only men who are constantly misinformed listen to people like Andrew Tate who fill there heads with bullshit. Everyone else has a pretty clear understanding of what a woman is looking for in a partner. We shouldn’t cater to the lowest denominators.

TigerRude4 · 2022-11-20T09:12:03+00:00

Nobody ever told me some women are way too good looking for me when I was chasing them when I was younger. Basically eliminate all blue pill eyes and deceptions

"Just respect her"

"There's someone for everyone out there"

"You don't look for love, love just finds you"

"Treat her well"

I barely got any advice for improving my looks and/or game, but I got a lot of similar shit like this.

PMmeareasontolive · 2022-11-20T18:41:45+00:00

Women are as superficial as men, possibly more because women believe they can judge a book by its cover way more often then men do. Consequently women are not always great judges of character; but all people see a golden halo around attractive people and assume that a beautiful person is also a good person, and that an unattractive person is "creepy" or awkward, which males will be judged more harshly for.
Women's idea of masculinity is a single dimensional gender stereotype, but they have no awareness of this, nor do they care.
Women and men can get bored in relationships after the honeymoon is over, but women will be more likely to blame the man for her dissatisfaction, including however that may be acted out (including cheating). Society generally uncritically supports women in this.
Just as people are more mobile in their careers then ever before, people are more mobile in their relationships. In the old days Ma and Pa worked for the good of the company (family). That was the goal they kept constantly in mind. Now women are encouraged to keep their personal happiness constantly in mind. And if the guy doesn't spark joy, he's gotta fucking go.
That isn't necessarily terrible, but just be aware that going into a partnership you may find yourself considered as an accessory rather than essential.
Women often think men are horny all the time, or that men will fuck anything. So they can get angry if you are unresponsive to them. To be fair, male libido is bizarre. As a man you can be possessed by lust to the point of making bad decisions one day, and perfectly rational and unmoved by even an overt (and normally pleasant) seduction the next.

Blame_the_Muse · 2022-11-20T01:56:00+00:00

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philfasta · 2022-11-20T09:31:03+00:00

Well, more of the things that are already happening: men dropping out of the workforce in droves.

It's no secret that we have a worker shortage. I remember a study a few years back that showed that about 11% of working age men are unemployed. It's probably worse now.

Not every guy could be Chad. If the majority understood what women really want, they would simply stop contributing to society.

PatrickBasedman777 · 2022-11-20T07:07:41+00:00

teach men to be strong, assertive, and masculine

not rocket science

West-Ad-9697 · 2022-11-20T07:43:00+00:00

Honest about them existing or honest about what it takes to navigate dating?

For the latter you have conservativism. Best practices ingrained in culture that offer a compromise between the genders, neither wins or loses. But overall they both get castrated and limited for the good of the tribe and future generations.

For the former - well you get men into problem solving mode. Some will looks maxing, others status maximize and start sugar daddying. And men would get a head start in that. Imagine if you were to hustle at 16, instead of holding hands and wispering sweet nothings into Daisy's eat just so she would touch your pepe. We would become a galactic civilization within 2 generations. And like you see in the "science based fitness" internet - those rocket scientists would be swole AF.

beleidigtewurst · 2022-11-20T14:25:00+00:00

What would happen and how would it happen?

Hypergamy would be acknowledged and shameless b*tching about women being "oppressed" would stop.

Everything else is just consequences/decoration.

2022-11-20T14:47:04+00:00

It would be a panel of women on a normal talk show being honest about the nature of women and how difficult it makes the dating scene for men.

“We want a very masculine man, who could hurt us but has a enough control to also protect us. It’s attractive when other women are attracted to him. He needs to be able to put his foot down and ignore our emotions and tell us what to do, and show very little of his emotions because being the consoler instead of the consoled is too exhausting for me to think about.”

The common narrative the advice that women give to men about dating is ridiculous. Women will say they want a man in touch with his emotions, but they really just want someone who can cheer them up when they are crying. If we open up, there is a near certainty that the rest of the evening is going to be about her emotions in response to learning something about mine, and then I have the burden of calming her down while continuing to address my own needs internally. It makes you look fragile and weak. You can open up about some emotions after years of marriage a little bit at a time. Most conversations are about how the man can improve for the benefit of the woman. The way that men can improve for women is by making more money and being of more utility in the house and the yard.

Another really helpful bit of honesty from women for the sake of our mental health would be the narrative around rape/SA.

Instead of “men celebrate rape culture”, it could be, “when men found out that I was raped, they arrested the rapist and built a shelter for me and other women and didn’t allow men inside”. They take for granted that every single protection from the evils of this world was created by men. There’s very female construction workers building shelters or prisons, because men take care of those things. Meanwhile our sons are being told they are the problem when they are 9 years old, and women are doing everything they can to remove fathers from households because they are projecting their traumas outwardly onto their husbands and sons. Then with the subsidized single motherhood, they raise weak men who have no idea how to control their masculinity and become extremely dangerous. It’s not like fathers teach sons how to become strong enough to overpower a woman, that happens naturally. We impose the discipline necessary for our sons to meet the same standards we had to meet to get married.

I don’t think enough women are honest about what men provide for them, and how necessary it is to have a father in the house preventing women from raising boys with zero discipline so that they become a menace to society. Also that single mothers are far more likely to sexualize their kids at a young age.

Goyeyo565 · 2022-11-20T17:37:36+00:00

Women couldn't care less about your struggles. You either figure it out on your own or stay the fuck away.

welcometothejl · 2022-11-20T08:44:46+00:00

The main issue as I see it is the messaging by society is that women are victims, and they then use this message to justify policies that give women certain advantages. So for me, a society that implements policy that treats men and women as equals would be a society that is honest.

Both men and women could get pre nuptial agreements that actually protect them. This would allow both men and women to understand the consequences of divorce before they are married, and it would also be a window into the true reason why the other person wants to get married.

Men and women would have equal claim to children in family court. If equal 50/50 custody is chosen, no child support is exchanged.

Prostitution would be legal.

Studies that make headlines wouldn't be massaged in such a way as to always show women as victims. For example, studies show women attempt suicide more count teenage cutting as attempting suicide. The way they define rape to get the number of women who have been raped in college up to 1 in 4. There was also a study on Reddit a few months ago that showed women yet again do more around the house than men. It got 45,000 upvotes, but when I actually attempted to read the study, it was behind a $45 paywall. So it might have been that women do more around the house, because they work less outside of the house. But I am not paying $45 to find out.

Fighting_dorks6969 · 2022-11-20T14:24:54+00:00

Just acknowledge that our taxes will never go to something we actually care about

supershotmd · 2022-11-20T20:25:02+00:00

Throw out all the children's stories of the prince/farm-hand/pauper/knight/jungle man/etc. saving/rescuing/providing for the woman and then her falling for him. How about stories where the guy with a heart of gold is ugly so the girl rejects him for a not-as-nice-guy who is handsome - end of story? Instead we have princesses kissing beasts and frogs and high school cheerleaders falling for the nerd. Feminists hate it because they think this fantasy caters to the patriarchy. But I think these stories just cater to a safe society. It teaches boys that all you need to do is be "nice" and selfless and rescue/provide/sacrifice. You can see how that would be a good message for women's benefit and for society as a whole - but it gives boys a warped sense of reality. And when these boys grow up and realize it doesn't work that way - that's when you get angry incels. Some of whom feel they were sold a false bill of goods and lash out violently.

2022-11-21T14:00:15+00:00

I could tell you what truths about dating I would have liked to hear when I was much younger:

General things about dating and life:

As a young man, looking solely for a serious relationship, know that avoiding to date casually has potentially very dramatic consequences. Without date, you gain no confidence and experience, 2 major things that you will lack when you meet a woman you would like to date. This can spiral out of control, because you can end up at 25 with no experience and no easy way out.

Just be patient and be yourself can actually be the worst advice ever, depending on your personality and appearance.

Working hard on your studies/career will not make you more attractive in most cases. It is better to pass a grade with a C while partying and having good dates, than focusing on your studies and getting As, but not enjoying your youth at its full potential. You will never be young again, you will have plenty of time to study while older.

Being bullied, rejected or assaulted can destroy self esteem, self confidence, lead to depression... No one should ever live that. It is not acceptable. Many people will tell you to grow up, than it shouldn't affect you instead of being compassionate. If you get through this, you should seek a therapy before loosing years trying to deal with it on your own.

General things about being attractive:

Physical attractiveness is much more important than many other criteria and is clearly underestimated in some circles. On average, looks are 3 times more important than intelligence on attractiveness. Physical attractivity for men is composed on various criteria. Among them, facial symmetry and being strong (size, frame, muscles, weight) are very important (no! being fit but skinny is not sexy, an ultra-marathonian is usually not sexy).

Being a polite, good and respectful is great for society but it isn't the best way for dating. Being nice isn't making you attractive. Being somewhat dominant or a leader is. The way towards dating is easier if you aren't that respectful and polite. Be assertive and sexual at the right moment (which is much earlier that I ever thought really was).

Being funny or playing the guitar are overestimated for dating. They are actually not making you attractive. People laughing at your jokes or liking the way you play a music instrument don't especially want to date you. It can happen than you will stand out for some people due to your skills, but it stays rare.

Looking and behaving manly is very very important in dating. As a man who is a bit effeminate and not assertive or sexual, I had friends who wondered if I wasn't secretly gay. This didn't help with dating women.

General advices about being too good for your own good:

Making a move can break a friendship or be seen as rude or annoying. But it is a necessary evil. Never expect a woman to make the first move. For dating, in many cases, boldness is well seen, and "better safe than sorry" is not the right mindset.

Love, sex, dating, asking out can hurt people because one get attached more than the others. Being afraid to hurt others is never a good reason to not date. People can take their own decisions, it is not for you to decide for them.

General advices about sex:

Sex isn't bad, man sexuality isn't bad, your desires aren't bad, you are not a pig because you want to have sex with someone... sex isn't dirty.

Sex is usually good. Sex is really amazing when the chemistry is here. It can takes a few times to get to know someone or get the right chemistry.

Speak about sex! It is very important!

Some No mean Yes. Some Yes mean No. Ask for consent and analyse the tension of your potential partner, his/her body language... if you hear of feel a No, don't go for it, in case of doubt, discuss it. And never forget a No or a Yes is sometimes just an instant answer. The mood can change, in one way or another.

Women are much more into sex that they pretend (it doesn't mean all of them are into casual sex, but some who said they don't have casual sex actually have/had some). Most of them will like you being sexual at the right moment if they like you. Many of the ones who wouldn't like you being sexual will forgive you for being sexual as long as you respect their boundaries once they said them. So it is better to be slightly too sexual than not enough. Creating an adequate sexual tension is of the highest importance, seconded only by creating trust.

Many women are not looking for a relationship or love. But even for these women, do not say before having sex that you are just looking for sex. In most case, this is a bad strategy. Don't lie but don't state your intention that clearly.

Many women aren't looking for a equal partner in bed. You will have to lead the game. You will have to initiate. And it works better if you are dominant. Many women would do things but they would never say they want to do them. Some women would like to do things but they don't want you to ask them on the moment. So discuss about sex, discuss a lot about sex... and not too much while doing it. And always respect their consent.

Women don't need to orgasm to enjoy sex. That being said, bringing them to orgasm is a real plus.

Not only men cheat. Even the most shy or serious woman may eventually one day cheat. Being super jealous is not helping.

maebyfunke980 · 2022-11-21T14:06:58+00:00

Oh man, I’m not reading the comments but I think one of my personal flaws is being too honest. I’m definitely not “society” and decidedly an outlier, and I’m single at 42, so clearly this strategy hasn’t worked, but it’s just how I operate. 🤷🏻‍♀️

2022-11-21T15:41:12+00:00

I think it would tell men to stop focusing on individual features e.g. chin. Unless you are some sort of extreme outlier, it's about the balance. The way it all comes together. The way a man holds himself, and moves around a room, how he smells, the eye contact. Of course physical features are a part of that, but only towards a wider picture. The hair, the clothes ,etc, don't need to be fancy, but they can create impact and style and convey personality and thought.

Exception to this rule is hands btw. Good thing is there's a lot one can do to make them better looking, if that is of interest.

Basically, men think that what they're told is wrong, and that's right, but what they've started telling themselves is also wrong.

As for height... its not as though short men are a turn off, its just that a tall man can inspire the desire to climb him like a sex tree. Same way a big pair of tits can make you want to head dive. Doesn't mean you don't also have a lot of interest in the other, necessarily at least. This stuff varies person to person ofc.

Kronbopulus · 2022-11-22T11:40:58+00:00

The day that happens rope, weapon sales and caskets would be bought up. A lot of men living in a silly little reality of being worth something would get a swift kick in the nuts.

Capable-Resolve-2001 · 2022-11-22T13:36:52+00:00

Society being honest with men would involve teaching boys about male disposability and how civilization depends on that disposability to function. Society being honest with men runs counter to the interests and goals of society.

Title	What would “society being honest with men” look like?
Author	festethefoole1
Upvotes	123
Comments	479
Date	November 20, 2022 1:51 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/yzs612/what_would_society_being_honest_with_men_look_like/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-would-society-being-honest-with-men-look-like.1140929 https://theredarchive.com/post/1140929

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