Modern women who want to be treated traditionally…

modidlee · 2023-02-16T16:06:13+00:00

In my experience women that genuinely enjoy spending time with me, and actually look forward to doing that, don't have a problem with sharing the expenses when we do things together. If you go out with a woman regularly and she never offers to pay for anything that's a sign she doesn't really value you.

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2023-02-16T15:01:48+00:00

I've always been happy to pay my own way. It guarantees I'm not expected to pay in kind.

Iluvalmonds83 · 2023-02-16T15:39:23+00:00

Im pretty modern so that’s the way my relationship works. We both bring in money, we both pay for things, we both clean/cook, raise our kid.

To play devils advocate, I’ve run into a lot of BOTH genders who desire to cherry-pick the benefits of both modern and traditional relationship roles and not have to carry the burdens (i.e. a man who wants a girl to make her own money but still wants to be the “leader”, a boss babe who doesn’t want to play housewife while the guy provides for her lifestyle, etc).

FutureBannedAccount2 · 2023-02-16T17:51:54+00:00

Most “modern” women are of the idea that only the gender roles that benefit them should remain. I don’t have a problem with one or the other but you can’t pick and choose. It’s like a guy saying he wants to defy gender roles by being a stay at home husband but still expects his wife to cook and clean cause she’s the woman

Federal-Jello655 · 2023-02-16T21:33:00+00:00

Even the most progressive, modern women I know still expects their boyfriend to buy them gifts and pay more than their half.

I live in Australia, so most of the women I have been on dates with and come across on dating apps are modern. Although they mightn’t expect you to pay for them, they still expect you to be masculine and “lead the way.” And they will ask questions to tease out your place in the hierarchy such as if you have your own place, a good car, etc.

northernlights190 · 2023-02-16T15:36:00+00:00

I’m a woman and it’s important to me that a man not pay anything for me during dating, especially during the early stages. If we’re seeing each other regularly, then we can alternate, and I’m always happy to treat him too.

I think most women who actually truly want an egalitarian dynamic probably do this. I wish more women would; I think the idea that men should pay for most things really needs to fade to obscurity.

There are men that aren’t comfortable with the more egalitarian dynamic though, I find. Especially men from cultures which observe more traditional gender norms. It’s sometimes tricky for me to know how to navigate that too.

CimZim · 2023-02-16T15:22:19+00:00

Interestingly, when I was dating I'd find guys who wanted the same lol.

They wanted me to have a traditionally feminine personality while still going dutch, picking him up for dates, planning the dates, etc. I thought it odd that they wanted a woman who would be submissive and quiet and let him order her meal at a restaurant but then expect me to pay for whatever it was.

ahaeood · 2023-02-16T16:33:52+00:00

I believe in being upfront and have a straight forward conversation in an intimate relationship. When I was dating my husband, I was dating to marry and he was the same. We’re compatible, hence good marriage until now.

gate18 · 2023-02-17T05:36:42+00:00

I think men need to modernize too.

Men should (a) give up the idea that there are traditional women out there, and (b) should not take pride in paying.

Hence, women will either not go on dates or pay half.

But a lot of men still have an inferiority issue, where I feel the need to prove something that they have no reason to prove - that they are, wait for it........ men.

A lot of women have also been brainwashed by the same bullshit (calling it the P word gets people confused) and so they do expect men to dance their little dance.

The problem is, women do not want to dance their old traditional dance, whereas men still like their traditional dance. And then they blame women.

shonenhikada · 2023-02-16T14:51:51+00:00

Seeing that the vast majority of men still approach women and have to ask them out on dates, as well as, 67% of first dates are still payed by men, it stands to reason this type of arrangement is very common. A lot of modern women want all the benefits of traditional arrangement without any of the responsibilities.

hostility_kitty · 2023-02-16T16:23:40+00:00

Whatever works for your relationship. A guy pays for me, and I’ll eat his tight bussy.

AvocadoAlternative · 2023-02-16T14:58:57+00:00

It's a great test of whether someone is actually egalitarian or simply wants more benefits. Because until equality is achieved, both philosophies point in the same direction.

General_High_Ground · 2023-02-16T17:25:13+00:00

Welp, if she can't pull her own weight, and not just financially, she'll just end up being a burden for me so I just go and find someone else who can.

I don't need her for anything and she should be the same.

Simple as that. lol

nothatyoucare · 2023-02-16T14:51:23+00:00

That’s because women don’t actually want to be treated equally. They want all the benefits of being a woman and all the benefits of being a man without making any sacrifices of their own.

ChadChasingB · 2023-02-16T15:51:15+00:00

This works in reverse too. Men want traditional relationships where they lead and make decisions while expecting her to defer to his judgment, be low n count, and take care of the house and family. Meanwhile many of them are broke, mentally ill, and can't fill those traditional male roles that gave that authority to be trusted by a woman to support them and make good decisions. They expect a woman with a career to walk in the door and treat him like he's the second coming of Jesus. There's delusions on both sides. Pull your own weight.

TaxNegative161 · 2023-02-16T14:50:03+00:00

It's fine to do this. Especially college girls will understand. Being broke sucks.

Later in life, I've dated women who make more than me and we've flipped a coin to see who pays. Women generally don't mind paying their way. Especially because some freaks think paying for everything entitles them to their body.

InfamousBake1859 · 2023-02-16T23:15:25+00:00

Paying for half means she’s contributing more than half. That’s a lose lose battle. The most I would do is 70:30… as a modern woman who makes more than 95% of men in the US.

Why? I’m the one givinn birth. i’m the one breastfeeding. I’m the one risking my health/body/beauty for our kid. Most likely, i’ll be the one taking him to the doctor, calling out sick when he’s sick, etc. so no absolutely not, no sir, any man suggesting 50:50 is just planning to take advantage.

Only way i see 50:50 as fair is if the couple is childless and they pull equal weight at home.

Bandit174 · 2023-02-16T15:05:46+00:00

Like Bill Burr once said they view it like a buffet and just cherry pick the things that benefit women and get rid of the ones that benefit men.

They'll put out right away and be fine with netflix and chill style dates with fuckboys, jocks and frat guys but then flip a switch later and suddenly they are miss traditional that expects to be taken out on formal dates that the new guy has to pay for and if he doesn't pay then thats a wrap and there's no second date even tho that was never a requirement with her previous partners.

So if you're the one she wants a relationship you're basically getting the worst of both worlds. All the cons of dating a traditional girl and all the cons of a modern woman but you get the pros of neither.

anonymous-platypus1 · 2023-02-16T18:05:55+00:00

I date men that don’t mind paying. The guy I’m seeing now just enjoys it. He pays for his friends a lot of the times when they go out. Being generous and treating people is just how he shows he cares.

Even when I want to pay I have to sneak and do it first.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2023-02-16T19:06:43+00:00

I'm the opposite and hated being paid for. I think it might have to do with some trauma over being poor. Like "I'm not that poor! I can pay for myself!"

JohnnyMnemo · 2023-02-17T03:52:07+00:00

The last few women that I have dated have insisted on paying their half.

I'm in my 50s, dating 50 year olds, who all have their own thing going by now.

2023-02-17T03:55:44+00:00

I was on a first date once with a guy only wanted to talk about my job. And described wanting to be a kept man, and how his previous girlfriend (same industry as me but way more accomplished lol) supported him financially. Dude also had a job and didn't want kids, and described wanting to be a trophy husband. he was cute enough to pull it off imo, pretty boy in a feminine way

I guess the point is, the attitude was offputting sure but at least they're honest. Some people value physical attraction enough to have a imbalanced relationship.. not me though. Plus, don't think I can afford it lmao

INFPneedshelp · 2023-02-16T14:56:08+00:00

Im a woman and I always appreciate when they let me pay. They usually insist on the first date but let me buy them a drink or something later. And then we often take turns.

Feisty-Saturn · 2023-02-16T15:53:28+00:00

This post is basically me. I am independent but initially especially meeting guys online I look for men to take on more traditional roles. I don’t really see an issue with it and I haven’t had any complaints.

Men are going to go out of their way for women they want to be with. It’s irrelevant if you’re independent or dependent.

animorph_fan34 · 2023-02-16T14:50:22+00:00

It's complete double standards and ridiculous! Women want all the benefits women in the past enjoyed from before equality as well as all the benefits of equality. Any man who wants to be treated traditionally is seen as a sexist

gymbro718nyc2 · 2023-02-16T15:09:58+00:00

Ask yourself why do you go on dates and pay for them? Is it your idea? Is it a belief that you formed willingly? Or was it something t that you were always told is just the way it is.

If you think it's just the way it is, why do you think women are not thinking the same? She is thinking it's the way it is. It's what my dad told me to expect and every single movie, magazine article and what all my girlfriends are saying I should expect.

At the end of the day, you believe in something that you have never questioned. So why don't you question why you believe you should be doing this as opposed to blaming women.

NationalistGoy · 2023-02-16T14:59:11+00:00

Personally, I let women know up front the type of relationship I’m looking for and if they say they want a modern relationship but expect me to pay for the dates and expenses

Damn, I gotta start using this. Really tired of this modern one sided dating enviroment where a man has all the financial risks.

bluestjuice · 2023-02-16T15:03:21+00:00

I think having a conversation about this up-front is a great idea. Vetting for compatibility is really important and I’m also just generally a huge fan of having explicit conversations about topics that many people try to intuit or make assumptions about.

donedidlio · 2023-02-16T16:43:50+00:00

I'm Muslim and traditional for us is "his money is my money, and my money is my money". So I follow that.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-02-16T15:00:16+00:00

My experience is that of dudes are looking at things in such narrow boxes as “modern vs traditional” instead of “ who is she? What’s she about” as an individual, they already too far gone in the ducking themselves over. So, good luck with that: attractive women can replace dudes like that in a second.

KirthWGersen · 2023-02-16T15:14:36+00:00

I know a woman, a friend of mine, who when she was looking for a husband in the second half of her twenties, ruled out men who didn't pay for dates. She has been married now for about 20 years, to a school teacher, while she is a highly-paid consultant. She now pays the majority of the family expenses, as they pool their income and he does the majority of the childcare.

It seems like it worked out well for her: she sought a man with a certain mindset so she could have the kind of relationship she wanted.

I have always gone for women who pay their way. They are not hard to find - in fact in my experience almost all women are more than willing to do so. And I end up with the kind of relationships I want: non-monogamous, not living together, intimate, great sex, etc.

At the beginning of a relationship you are both indirectly setting out your stall. It pays to listen and observe carefully how someone behaves on the first few dates, as it can tell you a lot about their relationship expectations. The next stage is the more direct negotiation, as if what you want differs, one of you has to compromise or end the relationship.

beleidigtewurst · 2023-02-16T15:28:25+00:00

Instincts didn't change, cough.

Lack of "benevolent sexism" (special, elevated treatment for women, the word "sexism" is used to add a negative scent for this privilege) is perceived by women as "misogyny", studies show. (sorry, to lazy to dig right now)

meangingersnap · 2023-02-16T20:11:21+00:00

So are we just supposed to wait around jobless, hoping someone will sweep us off our feet and pay for all our expenses? Like we do need money in the meantime to have a roof over our heads and food on the table…

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-02-16T14:49:08+00:00

That I'd usually pay for the first date and then after that strike a balance.

ashpr0ulx · 2023-02-16T17:23:15+00:00

the type of men i usually date are southern and conservative, so while i always offer to pay my own way, they generally prefer to pay, at least in public.

i wouldn’t have a problem splitting meals or dates, though, i think either way is fine as long as everyone is on the same page. and even a traditional mindset things should even out- my current relationship is a bit traditional in that he usually pays for dates, but i frequently buy things to cook him meals, or bake him special treats or pack his lunch for work. it’s not just he pays for everything and gets nothing in return because that would be lame

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2023-02-16T17:38:45+00:00

I always paid for first dates (and usually more) before I got into my relationship. I cannot tell you the number of times I’ve been venmo’d for the cost of a couple drinks because the night didn’t end in sex. I’d rather pay up front and owe you nothing than have you pay and expect you’re gonna get your dick wet at the end of the night

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-02-16T18:57:02+00:00

Sure.

I always paid some for myself when dating though.

Also in the same coin, a lot of men in relationships and marriages say they want a traditional woman (who does most of the childcare, cooking, emotional/mental labor) but she also has to work like a man and financially contribute. The only exception Ive seen to this is maybe the first few years after having a baby but its more because of childcare costs. So men do the same thing- they want the perks of traditionalism and also the perks of modernity.

Fun_Push7168 · 2023-02-16T21:07:38+00:00

This is the vast majority. If she says or hints at traditional values this always means highly selectively. Which can apply to a lot of people in general. Sometimes you hit a fair mix that works, sometimes people are selfish assholes.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-02-16T21:28:52+00:00

I’d prefer to pay for myself anymore. Nothing is free, and I’d rather not start off a relationship with a debt, nor be dependent on a man. That being said, I also will not tolerate anyone who is overly cheap or wants to make a big deal over who pays. If I feel like either you’re trying to buy me, OR you are more concerned with saving a few bucks than having a good time with me, I am not interested.

Now to be fair, there are women like you describe. However, there are just as many if not more men who want a traditional woman but don’t want to be traditional men. I have to say most guys I’ve dated have expected me to do a lot of “masculine” things and go 50/50 on expenses, while still letting him mostly call the shots, still doing most of the housework, still looking good, still having “relaxed and feminine” energy, and still wanting to have sex. Which is totally exhausting and impossible.

VirtualRow4074 · 2023-02-16T22:09:27+00:00

Tbh anything past date three I’m completely cool with splitting or offering thing is I’ve ran into men who never wanted me too. Tbh I Always at least reach for my purse on date two but all the men I’ve been out with always got the check anyways

AdjectiveMcNoun · 2023-02-16T22:57:14+00:00

I always offered to pay my half, or even the whole bill if I really liked the guy. I don't understand why some women except the man to pay for every date if they have their own money.

It actually backfired though when I was first dating my now husband. He is Egyptian, born and raised there, and it's an insult to a man in his culture to offer to pay. It's like saying you don't think he can afford it. I didn't even think about the cultural difference and told him I would pay the bill on one of our dates. His entire demeanor changed and I could tell something was wrong. He told me that he really didn't appreciate me offering to pay. I apologized and told him I would never offer to pay for anything again.

I never again have offered to pay for anything and I never will. He pays and he likes it that way. The only exception is shared housing bills. I was already paying for my house and he moved in with me because he was in the US finishing his PhD at the time, so he didn't own a house in the US. He is ok with me continuing to pay my half of those bills. The rest of my money is mine to do what I want with.

harmonica2 · 2023-02-17T03:15:28+00:00

I use to have a gf who wanted me to pay for the majority of things and was very old fashioned. She was an immigrant and maybe it was because of the culture she came from. However, I felt that she took advantage of this and when I felt like she was being unfair, I put my foot down and gave a certain cut off. I then found later that she cheated on me, possibly because of that.

We broke up and now I am in a relationship years later with a much more modern type of woman, who likes to split the bill overall, and she seems much more fair and is not trying to take advantage of things.

I realize these are just two dating experiences, and not all women fall into these types though. Just my experiences so far.

Another thing is, it seems there are a large number of men who want to pay for things and be the provider to the woman, but why? Doesn't that just put more pressure on them to perform and cough up in comparison to being on more equal footing?

herinquisition · 2023-02-17T11:45:05+00:00

First, you’re definitely entitled to date whomever you want to. None of us owe anyone dates!

Personally, I am the blend you’ve mentioned. It’s kind of funny because I wouldn’t consciously view myself as traditional, but I get what you mean. When I was single and dating, I would defer to the man on whether or not he wanted to split the bill. I didn’t care but I suppose his choice did affect me in some ways.

When I was a very young feminist, not splitting the bill was unthinkable. My views have changed significantly on the paying matter since then. I’m still a huge feminist - just don’t see splitting the bill as anything close to meaningful to my feminism. I definitely understand feminists who view it as meaningful, but personally, until the whole of society is invested in making everything truly equitable for women, why am I insisting that I pay on dates? This is the last frontier when it comes to meaningful actions or realities. Is it supposed to create an illusion of equality? I don’t need an illusions personally so I dropped it. Having said that, I’ve had to work on receiving a lot in life and relationships, so I used this as an exercise in my own self development.

I think I came to a point where I accepted the things that have sexist roots as languages through which men have been conditioned to show care as well. And I think I understand that money is one way men often show their investment into someone and their intention - not always, of course. So my bf and I did split the bill our first few dates. Then he asked me if I minded splitting. I told him on the surface I don’t mind because it’s his money, it’s early, and he doesn’t have to pay just because he’s a guy, but that beneath that veneer, I will wonder how interested he really is and probably feel some kind of way about it. I asked him if he was apprehensive about being used for his money, as he makes significantly more money than I do. We talked about it. And since then he has paid for all our dates.

He was also assertive when planning our first date and that was very attractive to me. I’m always the assertive one in life in general, that’s just my personality, and it was a nice sign that I wouldn’t have to be the one to lead everything. I knew I didn’t want that and I knew it would cause me some anxiety about his feelings if he couldn’t ever step up and plan things. I made the right call, as it really does mean a lot to me when he takes initiative to plan nights out and dates for special occasions. I had seen friends in relationships where guys would lean on them to lead everything because they were the loud, talkative, outgoing girls (like me) and I knew I didn’t want that. No thanks.

So I guess that’s how I think about the paying issue and planning dates. We can both plan dates, but I need to know he’s the type to step up - I already know I am. My bf makes significantly more than I do, and I was honest about how I view men’s behavior and socialization and how it would make me feel if I had to always split a bill. He said his ex wanted him to pay and she makes closer to his income, so they arranged a way to split costs, like she would pay the tip or something. I have offered to pick up the tip or pay for an Uber here and there and I know that he does like that. I think his ideal would be more like splitting some costs, but doesn’t have to be evenly, as he knows he makes way more than I do. I don’t think this bothers him a lot though, but we have talked about it - I’ll be the one to bring it up when we do though.

I can’t say I’ve ever felt pressured to “put out” sex after dates where the guy pays tbh. I’m very picky though too and I have met guys who I could tell would be the type to pressure someone and I generally cut ties with them before the dates. (I did a lot of online dating.) I know it does happen to many women though. I’ve felt pressured for a kiss at times, but generally I don’t register it unless they explicitly say they want it. In my mind, I make the rules on my body, period. Doesn’t matter how much you spent on dinner, if I’m not interested in being physical with you, it’s not happening. So I guess part of it is that I don’t even have that as a possibility in my mind unless I like him and want that. My bf was assertive about wanting to break the touch barrier (hold me hand and kiss me) on the first date and I leaned into it and enjoyed it. Another guy, for example, asked for a kiss at the table and I did feel a little pressure that time but I said no, I can kiss you goodbye when we leave. I gave him the tiniest peck. He later said he wanted to make out with me at the table. His whole vibe was a no for me, I wasn’t feeling it, so that definitely wasn’t going to happen whether he paid or not. And the main reason I gave him the peck was to make sure I was giving it a chance and seeing how I felt about it. I did basically have a mini make out session on the first date the table with my bf. Just kissing but passionate kiss. I’ve dated guys for one or two months without kissing them at all or just giving a peck. When it’s there, it’s there and you paying for dinner isn’t going to make it happen.

I will say that I’ve been presented with an interesting dilemma in my relationship, as my bf likes when I cook for him and wants that more. I don’t mind doing it but I think I’m resistant because of my concern about settling into a dynamic where I’m the only one cooking, especially if we have a baby. I think cooking is different because it has to happen daily in a family scenario, but it does challenge my actions in a way. I want him to pay for everything but I’m resistant to cooking and fitting this very traditional gender dynamic. Also beyond that, just love languages too. He likes acts of service, we both do. He has cooked for me as well, even though he hates cooking and can only make a couple things. I have to say, he’s over the moon when I make him food. It’s a ridiculous level of happy and I think if I cooked often, it would more than balance the scales for him on paying. The internal dilemma 🥴🫠😂 I like doing it though and I do cook a lot more than he does. I told him he has to keep the cleaner he pays if we ever get married. I can’t do that level of traditional where I’m doing all the domestic work - I don’t like that, but if cooking for him sometimes makes him happy, it’s on the table. I guess literally lol

So I’d say that’s where the rub comes in when it comes to my relationship, not about feeling pressured for sex.

I will say that I don’t think modern women often get to truly be modern women because women still do most of the domestic labor and child rearing. The idea that paying means anything is an illusion unless you’re also planning to take on a lot of the emotional and domestic labor. And even then, given that men don’t have to risk their lives in childbirth, not sure that the burden is ever truly equal. If a guy is willing to be very domestic, more than most men are, then we can talk, but who knows that early in dating. So imo, the scales aren’t really fair in the first place whichhh is one big reason why I no longer care about paying on dates 🤷🏻‍♀️

2023-02-17T13:21:54+00:00

I'm not ideological about this.

But I do find generosity attractive. A man who pays for dates is going to come across much better than one who doesn't. It doesn't need to be an expensive date though. Probably better that a first date isn't, really. Too much pressure.

2023-02-17T21:38:42+00:00

Agree 100%. Women should be encouraged to pay more often.

Aggressive_Grand_897 · 2023-02-22T01:23:20+00:00

I will say that in my experience most women will pay for our dinner dates: however I live in a liberal wealthy area so the women probably are a minority that want to truly act like men

AnyIntroduction3288 · 2023-02-16T15:32:20+00:00

What? Why is having a career bad? I am traditional. I want the option of being a housewife and homemaker. However, I am not going to live in poverty in the meantime while I search for a husband.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2023-02-16T16:04:29+00:00

As a woman I am 100% behind this

LillthOfBabylon · 2023-02-16T16:53:31+00:00

Nacassists in general want the perks of everything and whine there's an injustice when they have to deal with any drawbacks. They virtue signal. They don't practice what they preach.

It's like seeing men praise housewives and moms....while whining about women paying less taxes, whining about women not working as much as men, whining about alimony, whining about being a provider, claiming women are gold digging for looking for a man to provide for her, whining about alimony, and claiming women's value goes down once she becomes a mother.

tropicalazul · 2023-02-16T19:15:22+00:00

I'll be honest.

I'm a woman who has a career but it's because I had to. I was brought up to be independent. My parents were extremely, extremely clear that they wanted us (their daughters) to be as educated as their son (if not even more so lol, they tried to push me very hard to be of the highest career). It was ingrained in me that I had to do all of this.

Modern society has also encouraged me to have my own thing and to be "independent".

But my dream life? I'm married to a kind man I'm attracted to who earns a great salary and has no problem with spending his money on me and I don't have to work. I'm his wife, and then the mom. I'm the nurturer. I'm able to just be, to spend time working out, enjoying life, and then being a safe space for him to come home to and just have great sex.

Admitting this makes me a horrible woman though. Both men (well... most men, not all men lol, my ex liked this and wanted this) and women hate women who think like me. They see women like us as leeches/lazy. So, what do I do? I make 120k a year lol. I pay my way for most dates and at the very least, offer to. I'm upfront about what I enjoy sexually and am very fun to be around.. but not gonna lie, most men just don't trigger the "I wanna please him because he just does it for me" thing. It feels like I offer a lot. I'm feminine personality-wise and physically. I have a great bod, I am pretty, I love sex but only in exclusive serious situations, I actually am doing well financially. I offer both the "traditional" and modern qualities... but where are the guys who do this? I don't want a 100% traditional man because I'm aware I like having the right to speak my mind and have my own income of some kind, but I do like a dynamic that skews a bit more traditional. And a lot of modern men want the best of both worlds without really offering what is required for that. So I see guys complaining but y'all are not offering it either.

Demasii · 2023-02-16T16:02:57+00:00

Do you expect women to be unemployed? Having a job is a basic necessity. Nothing modern about it.

Safinated · 2023-02-16T16:21:39+00:00

Traditional was woman has no independent assets, so you purchase her from her patriarch owner

So no, I don’t want to be traditional. You should know your manners, though

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-02-16T17:43:29+00:00

your experiences

It’s a matter of resources. Personally this has never been an issue. It’s one of the reasons too, I chose my partner. She liked going on nice dates, so she’d take me. I’d rarely take her out, but when I did, I wouldn’t skimp. For example she’s never owned a Gucci bag. It’s now her favourite. Conversely I like a nice, organised home. So if things need cleaning, or organising, I take the lead. My wife’s is greatly empathetic, so kids parties, or trips abroad, she’s booking. I just turn up.

Ultimately her skill-set compliments mine, and mine hers. So when making decisions, we usually lean upon whoever’s more adept.

Godspeed and good luck!

ireallyloveoats · 2023-02-16T18:17:26+00:00

Everyone would love to have someone pay their bills. Modern women want traditional things but often are not traditional themselves.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-02-16T20:09:17+00:00

Women aren't a binary. Some want more modern elements, some want more traditional, some want a combination.

Men do this too. Some want to have complete control of her finances/make all the billing decisions, but still want her to work and be career-driven.

OP the whole point of dating is finding someone compatible. If you both don't agree on what you want your dating life to look like it doesn't mean there is something wrong with her it just means you two aren't compatible with each other.

Oli_love90 · 2023-02-16T20:54:38+00:00

I feel like the consistent penny pinching and counting off negates treating this person like they’re special.

When going out with someone it shouldn’t always be like “she gonna pay? I don’t want to pay, I thought she was a modern women, she wants a free meal and my money! She’s not independent?”. This is a super unflattering way to think and even though I pay for myself I wouldn’t go out with anyone who thought like this. Will they never buy me any gifts since they don’t seem to want to treat me in anyway?

In the average relationship I’ve seen one or the other pays sometimes, sometimes they split, it’s not seen as an inconvenience to treat someone you actually like.

despisedlove2 · 2023-02-17T03:53:18+00:00

Such women aren't worth the time of the day. They are the ones who wish to maximize their privileges and minimize their responsibilities. Feminists. Toxic for a relationship.

Protomize · 2023-02-16T15:19:34+00:00

Here's a fun thought experiment about what true equality in dating would look like..

It's BOTH of your jobs to keep the romance going! The man isn't there to dance and perform for you, the woman, to sit back in judgement of how well he pleases and entertains you!
If you invite, you pay.
Never expect anything simply because you are a man or a woman
A man is not your emotional support tampon and you don't get have wild mood swings just because it's always been accepted. You both support each other emotionally and don't look at him as any less of a man if he wants some emotional support occasionally. You both support each other's mental health equally.
If you are both sleeping and there is noise downstairs that could be a burglar, unless one of you is physically infirm, you BOTH go down there and confront it as a team. The woman doesn't get to hide under the covers and suddenly we revert back to the old sex roles.
You don't get to shame a man by saying "You are not a real man" or "man up" as if there is some threshold to being a male adult other than turning 18 and reaching the age of majority. Women don't get to define how much someone qualifies as a man and use it as shaming language, there is no equivalent in the reverse.

kalashhhhhhhh · 2023-02-16T15:45:03+00:00

Don't bother with people who are incompatible with you. Plenty of women that don't expect the treatment you mentioned.

A man paying for all dates and bills in a relationship sounds wild to me.

Most girls in my age group are going 50/50, but also most of us are in college and not employed full time (male and female).

Diamond-Breath · 2023-02-16T19:04:45+00:00

I'm in college and I definitely identify as a traditional woman. I've talked with my boyfriend about being a stay at home mom in the future, and I'm really attracted to the masculine traditional guys. He pays for everything and in turn I'm my most feminine for him with everything it entails. I just can't really vibe with 50/50 guys, it's deeply unattractive to me. Especially since we're Latinos, our culture is way different and the men in here wouldn't be caught dead treating their women like a friend.

shmupsy · 2023-02-16T14:50:02+00:00

women want full tradition but men are currently is a terrible state all around.

they are waiting for us to return

animorph_fan34 · 2023-02-16T15:13:18+00:00

Men still expect women to act traditionally, such as getting dressed up, shaving, doing her hair and makeup. All of that is expected of women on dates

Straight_Plenty6244 · 2023-02-16T15:13:22+00:00

I’ve never paid on a first date. The way I see it if a guy can’t stretch to a cup of coffee he’s probably not that into me. Fast forward I’m now in a relationship and I love to spoil my boyfriend. We take it in turns paying for dates. I always buy him little gifts ext but first few dates he paid. I think when it comes to dating it’s best just to find someone who shares your values around finances. Why waste time on people with different expectations.

AcanthocephalaNew947 · 2023-02-16T15:29:12+00:00

TIL Applebees is a financial risk…

In all seriousness be in the relationship you want to be in there nothing wrong with two people dictating how they want to operate their partnership.

Good for you for speaking up. It’s really not that complicated or controversial. I legit don’t even get the point of this post you’re proving your concerns are unfounded you met a woman who wants the same as you, why worry about what other women want?

tinasnow-poty · 2023-02-16T19:05:44+00:00

I am a modern woman who likes to be treated traditionally, sue me. My bf pays for like 80% of our dates, he likes it that way too. I plan the dates though and I always cook for him. It works for us

Dormouse_in_a_teapot · 2023-02-16T17:20:24+00:00

I always knew that I wanted a husband who wanted to take care of me financially, so I married someone aligned to my desired dynamic. My husband is based in another city and travels a lot - he pays for my living expenses and I use my money for personal upkeep, travel and shopping. I am what is typically considered a high earner (top 10% US) so this works out well for both of us.

Moral of the story - find someone who wants what you want.

Due_Practice8634 · 2023-02-16T18:46:49+00:00

Whoever invites the person should pay for the date. If I invite a friend out to dinner I pay for them. Do men never pick up checks for other men w/o complaint or expectation of sex in exchange for chicken tenders. Also if you term a dinner at Applebee's a financial risk you probably should be focused more on your career than your dating life.

Protomize · 2023-02-16T15:34:33+00:00

[permanently deleted]

MistyMaisel · 2023-02-16T19:03:10+00:00

I expect him to pay for the first date and treat me traditionally. But, I also expect that I will treat him traditionally and spot him back and treat him from time to time. If he doesn't like this, then much like you, that's fine. I'm no longer going to deal with men saying they want things they absolutely do not. And to be clear, by expect, I mean if he doesn't, that's fine, but it's a red flag and I probably won't see him again unless everything else was fabulous.

I used to offer to pay for everything myself, that was an awful experience time after time. Never again.

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Consistent_Ad3181 · 2023-02-16T17:31:40+00:00

Test

SnooSuggestions2147 · 2023-02-16T17:42:40+00:00

No matter what women do want in life....they will always love you for your money and penis size, not your personality

thisreallyisnotok · 2023-02-16T19:06:00+00:00

Modern economy has caused women to split: One group of women who face the music and try to become financially independent

OR

They are intimidated by current economic conditions and sort of “give up” in hopes they will find a man who provides for them financially. This has nothing to do with politics

Hungry-Adagio2152 · 2023-02-16T19:22:12+00:00

When I was dating in between my marriages, I encountered some women who wanted to pay for everything - ie, the whole dinner for both of us - themselves. I’m a professional who makes decent money, and these women were usually also professionals making good money, and so it was interesting to see that.

PsychologicalHand155 · 2023-02-16T20:31:28+00:00

Traditional women were fucked over. Most traditional families had the mom doing almost all the house work and she STILL needed to go to a job. The rich ones, she could just stay home.

What’s the issue? 50:50 is almost never 50:50 anyways.

If i went 50/50 for real, i’d demand to be paid a 50% of a nanny fee if I stayed home and watched the kids when he was working. I’d also demand a (50%) surrogacy fee. Then i’d demand a wet nursing fee (50% - remember 1 oz of breast milk is 1$, and a baby drinks 30/day.)

LowCreddit · 2023-02-16T21:53:19+00:00

You are correct that most "trad" women aren't actually trad. Real trad women do exist, but they are pair off early. There is also a category of women I call the born-again trad. They dive into the feminist scene young, peer into the abyss, and run to the opposite end. You can find them as late 20s women in cottagecore Instagram. They date around super seriously until they find someone close enough to what they want.

The real measure of trad is what the woman expects from herself, not the husband. The best measure is her interest in homeschooling.

TempoIndigo · 2023-02-16T23:32:31+00:00

I’ve only had girls be remotely ok with splitting things like that up only AFTER we’ve been dating for months. A few exes, we started out with a split and then we keep seeing each other and I pay for the rest and they were still mad about the one time they had to pay literally months later

Mobile-Aioli-454 · 2023-02-17T00:52:10+00:00

What is the differences between a modern and traditional relationship then from a woman’s perspective?

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2023-02-17T01:34:28+00:00

Alternating who pays isn't a new concept.
I'm modern , who isn't modern now in days. If they say their not , they are in denial. Was pretty easy to find a significant other that agreed to this mentality.
Nobody in my family is a traditional dynamic , even back to my Grandmother and great grandmother . They all worked and contributed to the house hold finacially in some form or fashion.

thetruthishere_ · 2023-02-17T03:50:53+00:00

Never in my life, now 50 expected a man Im dating to pay for everything. We always did for each other.

Actually I dont know any women personally that doesn't do for their partner. Sure I know some women are like this but its not a norm in my life experience.

That said, a man taking more of the lead and paying in beginning stages more of a 'norm' is a real reality for many because if hes not doing that, hes just not that interested.

Lets be real now, even in modern dating.

Men(really women too) will do things for women they are truly interested in.

Sorry to burst some bubble but its how it is and women know it. Truly interested men are not crying about paying.

RedditAlt999 · 2023-02-17T13:45:34+00:00

I've found these are women who have aged out of being treated traditionally. Post-wall alpha widows who think they're going to get the same treatment at 35 that they would have gotten 15 years ago, but they didn't because they "didn't want a man and his commitment to control their life and financial stability". They finished college, got career obsessed, and passed on perfectly good men for years.

Do I blame them? Kind of yes, kind of no. From a male perspective, I like being in control of my financial situation, and it's an absolute necessity. No one's going to take care of me. From a female perspective, I think they're just bitter that they didn't find the man who would take care of them financially AND be top 10% looks wise, financially, and stay committed to them (newsflash, he doesn't exist).

Golden_Oyster · 2023-02-17T17:29:59+00:00

Honestly as a pretty traditional man I’d do the same.

Why settle for a man who wants to go Dutch when there’s 100s of men willing to pay.

Think_gawd · 2023-02-17T18:00:25+00:00

🤡 🌎

Wolvengirla88 · 2023-02-17T22:21:32+00:00

Women who expect men to pay for everything are women who are looking for men to financially take care of them. That’s just not a healthy dynamic to be in for either party.

That being said, if one person makes substantially more money, I think it’s reasonable for that person to pay more towards major expenditures like trips or houses if both partners agree to that.

Novel-Inflation-8261 · 2023-03-05T22:57:47+00:00

The thing is the traditional man who works and provides is not affected by traditionalism because your life is not affected, whether or not you were in a traditional and modern relationship. However, for women, there’s a big difference between a traditional and modern relationship. And modern relationships, we are allowed to work, deliver on lives, and to make our own income. And traditional relationships, we are expected to stay in the house and not leave, and we are expected to live under authoritarianship of our husbands. This is just like men who want kids versus women who want kids. A man wanting kids wants kids because kids for them are “daddy’s home!” But for women, our entire life changes and our full-time job now becomes our children. For men in most situations, children are puppies. But for women, they are another human being to take care of.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2023-02-16T15:39:46+00:00

No its fair, men pay for me cause they already know I have multiple properties and so I get princess treatment for relaxing and doing less

erinmonday · 2023-02-16T19:25:41+00:00

It depends on compatibility. And timing. We are modern Dutch masters but I like and want traditional — but we have an expensive lifestyle. I’m lobbying to downsize our CoL and move somewhere more rural so I can be a true wifey!

Internal_Scale3991 · 2023-02-17T07:34:53+00:00

i’ve always preferred more traditional gender roles when it comes to dating. i want to be a house wife/SAHM when i have children, take care of the house hold and cook and clean as long as my husband is the main/sole provider.

Title	Modern women who want to be treated traditionally…
Author	Protomize
Upvotes	203
Comments	427
Date	February 16, 2023 2:42 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/113s6tx/modern_women_who_want_to_be_treated_traditionally/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/modern-women-who-want-to-be-treated-traditionally.1152453 https://theredarchive.com/post/1152453

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