CMV: The female expectation of looking physically attractive is way, WAY more easier than the male expectation of being a provider.

metasekvoia · 2023-03-12T19:49:09+00:00

Sure. All you have to do is stay young. How hard is it?

two-horses · 2023-03-12T18:29:51+00:00

While it is true that for most people, staying attractive is easier than climbing the corporate ladder, the equivalent to the traditional expectation that “men are providers” is not just that “women stay pretty.” Under traditional gender roles, women are expected to defer to their husband, keep house, raise kids, and stay pretty.

potoricco · 2023-03-12T19:03:39+00:00

But instead, we as men are expected to go through years of schooling and putting ourselves potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a high-status, high-paying job. Just being high-paying isn’t enough, even if you were a plumber making $100k a year, women probably wouldn’t be lining up to date you because of the stigma surrounding your job.

Wtf does this person think women are doing for the first ~22 years of their lives

Novadina · 2023-03-12T19:21:00+00:00

Luckily most women don’t expect you to be the sole provider or more educated - most couples both people work and have similar education levels.

Personally though I found studying something difficult much easier than all the things some men want women to do, like makeup that looks like no makeup, keeping nails pretty and unchipped, working out daily, keeping long hair (takes hours to maintain), removing all body hair, having braces, even plastic surgery. I enjoy studying and learning and making money, I don’t really enjoy all that other stuff. That’s why I learned complex things that pay really well over learning makeup and clothing styles.

So might just depend on your personality and what you prefer to spend your time on.

hodlbtcxrp · 2023-03-12T21:52:48+00:00

The difference is that money can be used to feed yourself and pay your own bills. Beauty doesn't pay the bills.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2023-03-12T18:31:27+00:00

Are you really ever gonna be in the position where you can provide and expect your woman to bring nothing financial to the table? Most women work a full time job AND are expected to do all that crap you mentioned. Where are all these women who are sitting around like princesses expecting you to pay their rent, all their bills, put food on the table, pay for all those products/makeup & gym memberships that keep them looking so good?

AcanthocephalaNew947 · 2023-03-12T18:26:52+00:00

Provider?!?!

How many households today are two income by necessity?!

What rock are people in this sub living under.

l00ks-p1lled · 2023-03-12T19:20:47+00:00

If you looked like Brad Pitt with a low income job you'd still get plenty of female attention, just don't expect to get it from rich or well educated women because they have also other standards. You'd also be considered fuckboy material and you'd struggle with relationships, but honestly it'd still be a better sexual life than nerdy college guy that's always ignored.

mackenzie013_02 · 2023-03-12T19:21:46+00:00

As someone with terrible genetics & making it into the 1% …both are hard, but differently.

While my body is great, I will never be more attractive than average, unless I’d get plastic surgery (which I’m not willing to do). I workout 6 days a week; go to the gym, do cardio, take walks, etc. Make sure to get enough sleep, take care of my skin, don’t drink too much, and eat insanely clean. I can’t let go for even two weeks, because my hormones get really imbalanced and my medication causes weight-gain.

Making it to the top 1% financially though took a lot of discipline, leaning into my strengths while recognizing my weaknesses. I grew up dirt poor so I had a lot of drive and I made a plan and followed it, but there was also no room for “mistakes” and little free time. However, there’s more aspects you can control.

Now I can finally relax and take bigger risks in my career, since I’m financially secured, but looks wise there’s no relaxing - if I let go it’s over.

LupeDyCazari · 2023-03-12T23:51:56+00:00

I dunno.

I've lived in South America, Europe, Asia, and in the North American continent, and I seen tons and tons of couples where the chick is hot, young, and the dude's some average-looking dude or even below average, and he's not a provider at all.

Either he makes the same amount of cash she makes, and doesn't own a house, and by owning I mean the house isn't paid off and on his name and on his name alone - or he makes less than her.

There's actually tons of desperate women out there despite being attractive.

Bro, what?

If I looked like prime age Legends of The Fall Brad Pitt, working at Mcdonalds, I wouldn't get much female attention as a man?

Bro, you don't know that many guys who are hot, do you?

bluestjuice · 2023-03-13T02:51:07+00:00

Having your human worth reduced to any single variable, especially one that you have a limited means to affect and that may not reflect your own values, is always going to be a demeaning, unsatisfying experience.

KarimaBruh · 2023-03-12T18:13:01+00:00

I‘m an autistic woman who had a „glow up“ after high school and I absolutely disagree. I am quite young and a second generation immigrant and have landed a high paying job after putting myself through university. In school I was bullied cause I was tall, fat, unfashionable and didn‘t put on make up. I was severely depressed and felt worthless, because I wasn’t attractive despite performing well in academics. People treated me like shit when I was just trying to mikd my own business. Now that I lost a lot of weight and my hair isn‘t looking like a bird‘s nest (though still close) anymore, people treat me better. I still don‘t wear make up regularly but I realize the difference in how colleagues, friends and especially strangers treat me, when I put in a lot of effort (wear a nice dress, do my hair, put on makeup etc). It has filled me with so much resentment since I learned that it doesn‘t matter what kind of person you are or what your strengths are, if you aren‘t conventionally attractive as a woman, you are fucked in this world.

edit: I think I didn‘t quite stress enough how much of a hassle doing my hair, wearing uncomfortable clothes and applying make up EVERY DAY is for me and many other women I know. It isn‘t really talked about in the mainstream, but it‘s a lot more effort than a lot of people think. Same for getting in shape and stuff like that. I know that‘s easy for some people but everyone is different. On the other hand, for me it was probably easier to land a high paying job compared to most people.

12throw1234away34 · 2023-03-12T17:57:33+00:00

I’m a man and I disagree. Just like how a short man is fucked because of genetics, women who aren’t born with good looks to begin with are kind of screwed, too.

But I think almost anyone has the capacity to become financially successful. The world’s information is at our fingertips.

Anyone can become successful. Not anyone can become physically attractive.

feminologie_ · 2023-03-12T21:43:15+00:00

This is the most ridiculous take. In order to qualify as an attractive woman, you have to win the genetic lottery FIRST. women who are born with unattractive features are doomed from the start. No amount of makeup, grooming or staying in shape is going to fix a girl who has an asymmetrical face, large jaw and nose, low cheekbones, narrow hips and lack of curves, etc. The only hope for them to become conventionally attractive is maybe plastic surgery, but if they can't afford it then they are basically done for.

I notice a lot of men in this sub act like genetics has nothing to do with female beauty. They think if women "just wear makeup and don't be fat!!" they will be automatically be beautiful. Couldn't be more wrong!

neetykeeno · 2023-03-12T18:40:30+00:00

You know what's easiest of all for most women in the developed world?

No husband, no kids, no inlaws, no need to be more pretty than just presentable. Just a job, an affordable residence within your budget, a couple of cats, a vibrator, hobbies, friends.

Sleeping in on Sunday morning without some guy pressing his dick against your butt crack to wake you up. Never having to accommodate anyone's food pickiness. The second bedroom all yours too...an art studio, a YouTube creator studio, a gaming space , a library a walk in wardrobe...all yours to decide on and you don't gotta make space for anyone . Nobody complaining that your baggy jeans aren't sexy. Hairy armpits. Not getting sulked at when you cook food you love but someone else hates. Masturbating according to the ebbs and flows of your own libido without a second thought. Redecorating according to your whims.

That's the easiest. If we're talking easy.

Ridan_ · 2023-03-12T19:18:52+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Alert_Many_1196 · 2023-03-13T01:10:31+00:00

"If I, as a man, knew that the only thing I had to do to be desirable to the opposite gender was to stay in decent shape, groom myself, and look attractive, I would LOVE it."

If the opposite sex made podcasts saying you've hit the wall at 25 and that you had to be of a certain race/look to be attractive and this was parrotted at you by those you dated I doubt your self esteem would stay that high.

Some-Web-1213 · 2023-03-12T20:50:55+00:00

Because of course it's so easy to never turn 35 and always stay young.

OP, you are something else. Just like you groom yourself irrespective of the other gender's expectations, women get education and jobs, irrespective of the other gender's expectations. Everything you are so proudly doing? Most women have to do too. And this does not even count towards our value, this just makes pragmatic sense. ALMOST like you upkeeping your self-presentation.

verdantsound · 2023-03-12T23:36:58+00:00

meh, out of all those things…doing well academically and professionally is the easiest thing for me.

doggiedoc2004 · 2023-03-12T19:20:15+00:00

The female expectation of being attractive AND being able to cook, clean, care for the kids, also now bring an income, being emotionally supportive, empathetic, sexually available, fit, stable, mentally healthy.....

Both sexes need to bring certain things to the table, sometimes the same things and sometimes complimentary things.

come_crawling_faster · 2023-03-12T20:20:41+00:00

Chris Rock just did this joke on his Netflix special and how women have so much power. Beyonce working at Burger King could still land billionaire Jay Z because she's so hot.

Now reverse the genders and imagine a broke Jay Z working at Burger King trying to land someone like her

Lolz

Kinda proves the OPs point

Jeditard · 2023-03-12T18:31:42+00:00

You are right in a way. The problem is it is an unrealistic fantasy to find a guy who wants to be the sole provider in a relatuonship. Now women are expected not only to look beautiful, but also to achieve financial wealth through a career. If this were the 1950's, then you would be right.

szclimber · 2023-03-12T18:13:45+00:00

I half agree. I know many males that make good money (upper middle class) but struggle in dating. I don't know a single tall & handsome man that struggles. Looks are most important for men and women

RedBullPittsburgh · 2023-03-12T22:44:58+00:00

lol women have it so much easier. Just don't get fat. Literally, that's all they have to fucking do and just not be as dumb as a door knob.

richard_golbes · 2023-03-12T18:21:23+00:00

we as men are expected to go through years of schooling and putting ourselves potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a high-status, high-paying job.

Most men who are getting married and having families are doing none of that. You live in a bubble.

Conscious_Ad_6572 · 2023-03-12T21:22:18+00:00

Women only need a pussy and healthy body, some one will allays be there

Film2021 · 2023-03-12T21:05:31+00:00

I agree with this post except for the Brad Pitt at McDonald’s part.

It might be tougher to get a relationship, but you would still have women lining up to lick your balls nightly if you look like Brad Pitt, regardless of occupation.

Unlikely-Wedding6727 · 2023-03-12T23:38:27+00:00

I was never like that.

icronicq · 2023-03-12T23:58:56+00:00

I find topics like these so confusing. I'm an average looking guy, my hairs been going gray since I turned 20, at any given time I've been 20-40lbs overweight, I work in the music industry and teach, so you know I'm making nowhere near six figures. I am none of the things so many people here say you need to be to be desirable, yet dating and finding relationships hasn't been nearly as challenging as people are claiming it should be. Can't help wonder why my experiences are so drastically different.

azurix · 2023-03-13T00:31:54+00:00

I don’t think this is the case at all.

Men for some reason are the main ones that still think they have to be a provider instead of possibly considering a good relationship where both parties bring in money since the lifestyle now compared to the good ol times are completely different. You can’t really be a provider with 100k. That’s barely making it specially if you want a home and kids

Money doesn’t make or break a relationship until that’s the status quo. Which it is in some relationships. But that’s up to both of you to understand like hey I’ll provide if you submit. But if you can’t do that then figure it out some other way where you’re closer to equals in many aspects

No-im-a-veronica · 2023-03-13T03:33:24+00:00

I think there's a little bit of a false dichotomy happening in this argument. Leaving aside the assumption that all women expect men to be providers (as opposed to stay at home dads), I don't think the only options are retail/fast food for minimum wage or hundreds of thousands of debt to become an engineer. I see you mention plumber, but what about welder, firefighter, construction worker, or mechanic? I'd even argue that many women think those jobs are sexy, especially firefighters. In my town there's a program that will teach you to build houses for free and even give you thousands of dollars' worth in tools if you complete the program. Maybe some women think engineers or finance dudes are sexy, but I went to school with a bunch and while I'm friends with them, I have to say they're much more awkward and have a longer way to go with women than the blue collar men I know.

And don't rule out being a househusband, IF you don't play video games or some other hobby all day AND you are good with kids and capable of keeping a spotless house (harder imo than going to school and working; I've made it clear to my partner that I won't be a stay at home mom except for maternity leave). You'll have a smaller pool of women, but they're out there, IF you are actually a GOOD housekeeper. My brother in law does this and claims to love it and my sister wouldn't have it any other way, and I've never seen a cleaner house or better raised children. Wish my partner wanted this, but he likes working just as I do so I respect his choices.

punapearebane · 2023-03-13T10:19:48+00:00

Most women dont expect the man to be the provider. We work and do it well. It is also a problem for men when we dont, since a lot of men dont have any other leverages.

So its a problem when women want men to be the provides and its a problem when they dont.

Depending on the current OP-s curcumstances.

whitehack · 2023-03-13T12:57:55+00:00

Disagree COMPLETELY! Being a provider is numerically (monetarily) constrained within parameters: at SOME point, you'll meet both your AND your partner's needs and wants (from a lifestyle and luxuries point of view).

Trying to fit into attractiveness ideals, as a woman, is NOT easy at all. That's why they spend HOURS both putting on make up AND trying and split testing clothing pairs against each other when I personally, as a guy, would just look inside my wardrobe and grab whatever looks comfortable.

tawny-she-wolf · 2023-03-13T14:45:57+00:00

First of all, given that it’s basically impossible to survive on one income these days, especially with kids, women need to be providers too.

Second of all, unless you can afford plastic surgery, you can’t really change how you look, so it’s a lot of luck. A lot of money for skincare and makeup, clothes and a lot of time and sacrificing to stay fit. Not to mention some people think it’s pointless after 30 years old.

I find it much easier to have a high paying job than be physically attractive to current beauty standards for women. True it’s also partly dependent on generational wealth, education etc. but plumbers make enough to live comfortably for example, and there’s no expiration date to change careers or go back to school.

mediumbonebonita · 2023-03-13T15:17:52+00:00

Eh but as women can be born into good genetics that make being and staying pretty easy, a man can be born into a financially well off family that can make it easier to be a provider, such as having a lot of familial wealth he has access to or going into an industry that nepotism got him into. There are a lot of women in this world who don’t have to work really hard to stay beautiful but I’d argue at the same time there are some men who don’t actually have to work that hard to be providers.

nicoleberry16 · 2023-03-12T18:17:17+00:00

Well tbh I don't really consider whether a man is a good provider, that's becoming an outdated notion. For me it's two things: if I'm physically attracted to the guy, and if we both have good chemistry.

Not saying that there aren't any other women who look for provider qualities in a man, but it's not really that necessary today. I mean, I work, I can support myself, pay my bills, etc

revente · 2023-03-12T19:38:38+00:00

Also the female expectation of looking physically attractive is way, WAY more easier than the male expectation of looking physically atractive.

It’s easier to groom and use makeup than actually sweat your ass off in order to get musclar and ripped.

polyeV_Sucks · 2023-03-12T19:43:36+00:00

lining up to date you

the only men that women are lining up to date are celebrities

the high-status, financially viable mate that women desire

many women desire men who aren't those things.. very few men are, and they are more often than not married.

Even if you looked like prime Brad Pitt but worked at McDonald's, you still wouldn't get much female attention as a man

He's more than likely fucking around with the girls he works with.. like most guys did at these PT jobs when they were young.

Billsandasonom · 2023-03-12T20:42:23+00:00

The main reason is basically bc men are biologically wired to find most women in reasonable decent health attractive. The bar is extremely low.

twistednormz · 2023-03-12T18:24:37+00:00

The female expectation of looking physically attractive is way, WAY more easier than the male expectation of being a provider.

OP, you do know it's 2023 and women are also expected to be providers? I literally don't even know one woman my age or younger who doesn't have a paying job, including those with a husband /partner and children. Do you know lots of women who only have to look good and that's it? They don't have to contribute financially to their household at all?

"women are made to feel like their worth comes from their appearance", but honestly, is this really such a bad deal compared to the alternative?

What's the alternative? No matter how good your appearance is as a man or a woman, you still have to make a living.

But instead, we as men are expected to go through years of schooling and putting ourselves potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a high-status, high-paying job

Women have to do the same to have a high-status, high - paying job. Men are not special in modern times like they were in the past when women were oppressed.

Just being high-paying isn't enough, even if you were a plumber making $100k a year, women probably wouldn't be lining up to date you because of the stigma surrounding your job. Being educated is basically essential in today's dating world.

Nonsense. Do you know many plumbers who are single over the age of 30? I certainly don't, every plumber I've ever met was married, so they obviously got dates.

What is harder? Spending time putting on makeup, wearing nice clothes and not letting yourself get fat, or spending years of your life studying your ass off and working hard so you can become the high-status, financially viable mate that women desire?

I think that depends on the person. Personally, as a woman I would hate to have to look "hot" all the time, and I thoroughly enjoyed studying hard and working hard to make something of myself. Why do you think that this only applies to men? Where the hell do you live that this is your experience of the modern world?

purplish_possum · 2023-03-12T18:11:05+00:00

It's harder for men -- but not for the reasons OP thinks. Beta game is dead as the dodo. Going to college, and then law school, and then getting a job at a mid-level law firm will put a guy in the top socioeconomic tier but won't get him laid. It's all about physical attraction today -- for guys as well as women. However, guys can't upgrade their attraction level at the mall or by going on an Amazon shopping spree.

Being a top tier guys looks wise requires choosing parents wisely, years of physical training, and in many cases steroids.

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2023-03-12T21:34:17+00:00

Don't forget men still also have to look attractive, being average looking isn't enough to get their attention.

TotalTravesty · 2023-03-12T18:11:08+00:00

Hell, I do most of that stuff already, I love working out, I like styling my fashion, etc.

There you go. Anything is easier if you like doing it. But if you’re the type of person who hates working out and eating well then maybe pushing it a little harder in your career won’t seem like such a bad tradeoff.

Safinated · 2023-03-12T18:18:34+00:00

Where you start from is equally diverse and difficult

RegTextoffender · 2023-03-12T19:11:13+00:00

Its easier if you are born with the right physical genetics.

In that case some basic self care is all you need.

But if you aren't I'd far rather be an ugly man over an ugly woman. Maybe genetics matter there in that you have to have the drive, intelligence, etc, but there are multiple ways to be successful while being pretty is a pretty narrow tract.

hedgehoglady · 2023-03-12T20:54:57+00:00

What’s the deal with the assumption that dudes who work trade jobs are always less desirable to women? I’ve gone the advanced degree route and my dad is a doctor and I don’t have this preference. In fact sometimes I find the JD and MBA dudes too pretentious. I care if you’re financially solvent, and if you either a) enjoy your work or, b) you have long term plans and goals for career development if you don’t like your job. I just don’t think many women are in the dating market for who expect the man to be the main or sole provider anymore. Long term I wanna know if you have a decent credit score and could potentially join forces with me to own instead of rent.

anotherstarbuckeroos · 2023-03-13T00:27:42+00:00

Are you complaining that women have high expectations for men or that men have low expectations for women?

A room feels empty real fast when you enter it and immediately get put on a pedestal. I'm not going to argue that's it's harder. It's not. But that doesn't mean it's better.

puddingbike · 2023-03-13T01:01:06+00:00

We often hear about how the oversexualization of women in media and how "women are made to feel like their worth comes from their appearance", but honestly, is this really such a bad deal compared to the alternative? If I, as a man, knew that the only thing I had to do to be desirable to the opposite gender was to stay in decent shape, groom myself, and look attractive, I would LOVE it.

Yes, OP, your point is taken and correct. It's not going to be received well here, of course.

You got this part wrong:

Even if you looked like prime Brad Pitt but worked at McDonald's, you still wouldn't get much female attention as a man.

That's definitely not true. Lots of women will fuck that guy. They won't want to marry him, but they'll gladly fuck him.

Hard_Corsair · 2023-03-12T18:20:32+00:00

Counterpoint: men are supposed to be competing for resources anyways regardless of women, and the reason men complain about it these days is because microplastics are destroying our collective testosterone levels.

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WYenginerdWY · 2023-03-12T20:42:52+00:00

It may sound easier on the surface, which I still don't agree that it actually is, but the main thing that you have to keep in mind is that "easier" does not impart long-term fulfillment. Sure, a woman can get a man by switching off her brain, putting on a stupid frilly dress and giggling a lot, but have a look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs. She's never going to self-actualize and eventually that's going to come back and bite her in the ass. I wouldn't call a life lived in such a way that you're never able to self-actualize "easy". It's basically stepford wife bullshit.

Meanwhile, men are encouraged and given the opportunity to strike out on their own from a provisioning standpoint. He has the entire hierarchy of needs available to him.

RegionalPolice · 2023-03-12T21:09:50+00:00

There's a lot more stuff that goes into women being high value that is ignored by men. A lot of what girl game is to me comes off as subservient and being forced to express your actual opinions in a passive roundabout manner for example, and to me that'd be hard to do because I'm a blunt person and I don't really care for stifling myself to make myself more attractive, which is something women have to manage. There's always a lot of invisible rules, I don't think it's necessarily easier being a woman just because you're told to "shut up and look pretty" -- because what you gain as a man is being able to say whatever you want without much repercussion, you have actionable success goals that maintain your own independence, etc.

There's benefits and drawbacks to any gender double standard, this is just one of them.

hiddendance · 2023-03-13T07:22:29+00:00

Not only that, there’s so many ways to trick being attractive as a woman. Filters, angles, waist trainers, surgeries, heels. As a man the only trick we have is crypto.

QncyFie · 2023-03-13T07:34:36+00:00

Provider expectation is out-dated as fk and women with jobs don't look for that. People generally date within their own socioeconomic status.

beleidigtewurst · 2023-03-13T08:10:55+00:00

Well, yes, possibly, but what is your point?

To claim which side has it harder? And then what?

IWillKeepYourSecret · 2023-03-13T09:14:03+00:00

I don't know, dude. Nowadays, it's kind of pushed onto women to do both. It is for me, anyways. My goal is to get a master's, but financially it's impossible to do so unless I work full-time for at least a year. I kind of feel like I'm working my ass off to get to where I want to be, but that's okay.

I spend hours every day grooming myself, though. While I'm busy with one thing, I'm taking care of my hair or my skin at the same time. I am not fat, unfortunately. I look far better when I'm overweight than I do right now, since my stomach doesn't put on much fat. I am bordering on being underweight, and I can safely say it's much harder to gain weight than it is to lose it.

I find it difficult to eat with all the stress. I have a job and take care of the house, planning out my future when I have the time and working on improving myself physically, intellectually and emotionally.

As for the makeup stuff... that's cute. Beauty videos hide all the bumps and skin flakes that are still visible. If done properly, make-up can enhance features, but it won't turn a 1 into a 10. Beauty is luck, and if it isn't luck, it's money.

If a woman is only pretty, she won't be successful. Successful men won't love a pretty woman when she loses her youth. I grew up poor but went to high school among the rich. Their parents were never the rich man and young, stunning woman dynamic. They were strong people who knew how to make money and how to keep it.

As for the pressure: it differs per situation. My boyfriend compared me to pornstars and fantasized about them being in my place. We lost our house and had to move in with his dad last july, and we're still living there today. Not once did I feel like he was less attractive because of it. To me, he will always be enough. To him, I am scared I never will be.

gymbro718nyc2 · 2023-03-13T09:22:25+00:00

Lol, being a provider has never been sexy. Maybe if you are Indian or Chinese or something but even on those cultures m it's only because marriages are forced. Bro don't know what to tell you but you are barking up the wrong tree.

daisydaisydaisy12 · 2023-03-13T11:57:29+00:00

Grammar please.

boomboxspence · 2023-03-13T13:20:10+00:00

Exactly. It's honestly hard to be ugly as a woman at this point. But also men have the expectations of being good looking too and a protector and the provider and the "leader". Yes many house holds have two sources of income but the EXPECTATION is on the man, not the woman. If you're a man you're expected to have a good job, a car, your own house, etc. For women it's just: don't be ugly

No_Yogurt_4602 · 2023-03-13T15:25:33+00:00

even if you were a plumber making $100k a year, women probably wouldn't
be lining up to date you because of the stigma surrounding your job.

I mean, plenty would, though? None of the guys I knew in high school who ended up going into the trades seem to have had any issues with finding a partner, and I'm sure that the highly stable and non-negligible income (plus lack of student debt leading to just an overall solid financial situation) have at least something to do with that. Like, "union electrician" and "welder" aren't the most glamorous or highest status jobs, but the people who do them sure do seem to generally live really satisfying, full, and comfortable lives despite that.

This post also seems to ignore the fact that the overwhelming majority of women do, in fact, go to school and/or work in addition to dealing with the fact that a whole bunch of people will only really value us for our appearance regardless. And even with a long-term partner there's still usually the expectation of a degree and steady, decently paying job because supporting a single-income household is only even really possible anymore for a small minority of highly compensated professionals -- and they're often the kind of people to have debilitating work-life balance issues which end up making relationships difficult anyway, which is why overworked businessmen having affairs with their secretaries and alienated housewives having affairs with their landscapers etc. are such well-used tropes.

Also, I've seen way too many girls date charming, handsome slackers to buy your last point. Brad Pitt c. 1990 could've been an unemployed couch-surfer who mooched off his partners so he could always stay too high to remember the last time he wasn't high, and he'd still do pretty much as well as he wanted romantically by virtue of being personally charismatic and the epitome of conventionally attractive.

Adventurous_Health93 · 2023-03-13T15:55:43+00:00

I don't really think they're comparable seeing as though they're both means of oppressing and demeaning a group of people but I do want to point out that a mans ability to provide is something that's easily hidable where as a womens looks are not. For example working retail I had a regular who constantly commented on my looks, if I didn't wear makeup I'd be asked if I was sick or had a long night, if I wore too much makeup he'd comment on how I don't need all that crap on my face and how it makes me look older or it just doesn't look good at all, which sadly is a common occurrance working in retail or the general public. Then on top of that other women will clown you for not wearing your makeup a certain way, if your hair doesn't look good enough, weight, clothes and skin care. We get it on both ends because our physical appearance isn't something we can hide where as men can just not talk about their financial situation and no one would know any better. Also as easy as it may seem to keep up with unrealistic beauty standards let's be honest, makeup isn't cheap, skin care requires a daily routine and healthy diet, clothing for women is depressing and misleading, not to mention expensive. Weight and height sometimes things that can't easily be changed or changed at all plays a big factor and then on top of all of it having the effort to deal with it all every day and say you want to sleep in one day or binge eat a bunch of snacks, or god forbid wear sweatpants or unflattering clothes for just one day, your subject to criticisms and are treated as though all of your worth comes from your appearance which takes a pretty big toll on your self esteem long term. Which doesn't like to big of a deal when you know your self worth and are comfortable in your own skin but when your indoctrinated into this world believing your worth comes from the appearance of your body it's hard to shake off.

MayonaiseH0B0 · 2023-03-13T16:23:03+00:00

As a dude if I could have wig, makeup, yoga pants, and shoes that make me taller I’d be a more attractive. But it isn’t real…

SkookumTree · 2023-03-13T21:12:10+00:00

I actually disagree. It is easier to become, say, a doctor than to make your way into the top 5 percent for physical appearance. A 5'5" guy could have access to the best surgeons in the world but he's not going to be much better-looking than average. Even if he does look like a Greek god.

Hell. A 5'9" guy - average height in the US - isn't going to be top 5 percent with the body of a Greek god and an average or above average face.

badgersonice · 2023-03-14T14:02:19+00:00

Just being high-paying isn't enough, even if you were a plumber making $100k a year, women probably wouldn't be lining up to date you because of the stigma surrounding your job.

People usually date inside their class. Yes white collar professional college educated women will mostly date white collar professional college men, rather than blue collar guys. But college educated women are not all women (fewer than 40% of women are college educated), and plumbing and other blue collar jobs are definitely highly valued and respected among blue collar folks. In blue collar world, having a fancy sheet of paper from some hoity-toity institution proving you’re an impractical egghead isn’t as valued.

In addition, women among several of the pink collar college educated jobs also often pair up with non-college educated men. Nurses and teachers fairly commonly pair off with blue collar men. Then there’s also family background— women from blue collar backgrounds with college degrees are more likely to go for the plumber or police officer than some upper class rich girl, sure.

In other words… I think you’re ignoring a whole lot of women if you think all women are college snobs who’d never date a blue collar guy.

Being educated is basically essential in today's dating world.

Training in a trade is a form of education, just not usually described as such.

I feel like you must be a college educated guy with absolutely no blue-collar family or friends and live on the coasts to believe a college degree is required to find a girlfriend.

SnowBorn6339 · 2023-03-16T01:08:59+00:00

When all you turds say we “expire at 25,” then no, it’s not easy. It’s literally an impossible expectation to put on women. Plus, we provide for our god damn selves on top of that. I’ve been working my ass off in higher education for 9 years and still get pummeled all the time with societal expectations to remain young and beautiful forever. Double whammy. You are totally ignorant to the female experience.

Peacesquad · 2023-03-13T00:16:04+00:00

Most American women can barely do that. Holy cow are women fat af in the states

According_Talk_3084 · 2023-03-12T23:22:42+00:00

In Islam, it is actually pretty easy for women to enter paradise. You just need to fulfill a couple of things and that is it.

For men, it is a tad bit more difficult, because as a man you indeed are supposed to care for your wife, protect her and provide her. A loving husband naturally does these of course but if we compare it does look like men have to work a little bit more to enter paradise.

This of course doesn't mean that one gender has it easier than the other. They both have it equally difficult in relation to the gender specific issues.

BackAgain12345678910 · 2023-03-13T00:42:27+00:00

And most of them still don’t do it lol

Ok_Engine_3570 · 2023-03-13T01:05:36+00:00

First of all looking physically attractive for women is easy, they need to (1) be born with nice facial features and (2) keep a low body fat. Man need (1) and (2) plus (3) be born tall, (4) not go bald and (5) have some muscle

midwesternMD · 2023-03-13T23:10:57+00:00

Disagree. All I did was do reasonably well in school, and followed the path laid out in front of me for a reasonably well-compensating career. It wasn’t difficult, but it did take determination and some focus. And it required that I sacrifice the pursuit of dating/fun in my 20s to study. But it wasn’t difficult.

In contrast, a woman has to (generally) keep her BMI around 20 or so. In western society, that means eating like a third of a serving of anything, and probably being perpetually hungry 24/7.

As a man who has dieted/cut weight in the past, being perpetually hungry is fucking difficult. Far more difficult than just working towards a solid career, in my experience.

Title	CMV: The female expectation of looking physically attractive is way, WAY more easier than the male expectation of being a provider.
Author	Glass_Bucket
Upvotes	194
Comments	398
Date	March 12, 2023 5:53 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11pkwpz/cmv_the_female_expectation_of_looking_physically/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-the-female-expectation-of-looking-physically.1176494 https://theredarchive.com/post/1176494

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