Men's SMV doesn't actually increase with aging.

Loud_Definition6669 · 2023-04-22T18:02:56+00:00

There are absolutely men who look better at 30 than 20, although I wouldn't say men peak at 30, most peak closer to 25.

If you're lanky and all elbows and Adam's apple at 20, and still have all your hair at 30, then you'll probably look better at 30.

I think the issue is if you can't get laid while the dating market is "easy" like being on campus at 20, or while going on 2-3 times a week at 24, then it's not going to get easier when half the people your age are married and busy.

bluewater778 · 2023-04-22T21:21:46+00:00

SMV isn't just looks. Women biologically prioritize resources and protection way more than looks. If you have average looking man making average income, and a ugly man making 6 figures and is a CEO, the ugly man will have a higher SMV.

wtknight · 2023-04-22T17:00:44+00:00

Most men who are successful with women at 30 and beyond were also successful in their youth.

A greater percentage of men are having sex at older age cohorts than at younger ones, so actual survey statistics disprove your post.

lolmastr13 · 2023-04-22T17:38:12+00:00

Idk why you’re discounting how much women like higher incomes

Still men’s SMV has the potential to increase with age: Money allows you to take better care of your health and fitness, in addition to letting you stay properly groomed.

JoeRMD77 · 2023-04-22T17:11:15+00:00

I feel like the obsession over older men is proof enough that women are into older men. We don't see many posts about men not liking fat women for instance, as we know most don't and there's no debate.

Stunning_Thing4208 · 2023-04-22T16:41:01+00:00

Lmao dude if you see how I looked when I was 20 versus how I look now at almost 40... I look objectively much better.

You build more muscle mass and sort of grow into a man's body, you dress better, you gain experience, status, some wealth, you got stuff going on for you.

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-04-22T16:26:41+00:00

Plus they lose their hair, get paunchy, and get ED.

DeshaunWalt · 2023-04-22T16:19:38+00:00

"higher income"

Well it just increased since he earns more

"If you were unattractive at 20 you're not going just to become women's fantasy at your 30th birthday"

Depends honestly, if he does nothing throughout his 20s to become attractive then yea

But if he takes action by age 23/24 then by 30 he'll have better odds

TurtleDickSlap · 2023-04-22T18:02:01+00:00

This reads like you're a post wall woman who doesn't like the fact that men get more attractive as they age (assuming they don't waste their 20s and 30s).

Petyr111 · 2023-04-22T18:24:09+00:00

Lets suppose that men are more attractive when young.

Where are the women wanting these men? Every women wants older. Why?

JSears90210 · 2023-04-22T20:37:05+00:00

If you were unattractive at 20 you're not going to just become a woman's fantasy on your 30th birthday.

There are men who look like they are 14 when they are 20 and look like adults at 30. Also some guys take awhile to fill out and put on any muscle. Yes there are men who hit college with a permanent five o'clock shadow and the frame of a grown man. Those guys have probably hit the peak of how they are going to look and attract women during that four year stretch. (And what a time to hit it.) But a lot of men still look more like teens than adults until they hit 25ish.

23 year old guys who did pretty well in college find there dating prospects much different when they hit the real world.

At 30 you have confidence and your emotions much more under control. It might not make you into Chris evans but it certainly can help a guy who is decent looking but not a male model up his SMV.

veloron2008 · 2023-04-23T03:00:19+00:00

I think it's a man's natural confidence that usually increases with age, as you figure out what life is about and establish yourself professionally and financially. That alone translates to a higher SMV. Obviously, don't let yourself go too much physically and you're golden.

Anxious-Tailor-7182 · 2023-04-22T17:55:09+00:00

Entire idea of SMV is incredibly dumb and it doesn't work.

The_Entertainer217 · 2023-04-22T18:57:01+00:00

I am in fact much more attractive at 35 than I was at 25 tbh. Being able to grow a full beard helped a lot

gopher_glitz · 2023-04-22T21:10:58+00:00

So many guys at 18 vs 28 do SO much better with woman it's not even funny.

Petyr111 · 2023-04-22T18:12:40+00:00

This whole comment section is full of 30+ women coping.

Men do become more attractive and it is a fact.

The proof is that older women never want attractive young men. They want older men as well.

JumboJetz · 2023-04-22T18:10:41+00:00

While this is true in terms of looks - when you are older you can certainly use money to attract more dates.

midwesternMD · 2023-04-22T21:18:55+00:00

Mixed.

Getting older alone doesn’t make anyone more desirable. Looking good is what matters. But since most people look shittier as they get older, it is relatively easier to become relatively more attractive as a man gets older provided he stays in shape, strives towards his career goals, and if he’s fortunate, retains his hairline.

Provided a man does those things, he ought gain some relative desirability in the dating market. But I don’t think that this is a result of aging itself. Perhaps it is a result of aging more gracefully than one’s peers. But age itself doesn’t confer additional “value.”

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-04-22T23:30:33+00:00

It doesn't have to increase.

I'd say that generally, if we're talking about RAW PHYSICAL ATTRACTION, men have more potential later.

If a guy takes care of himself, a lot of times you will actually look better with age.

Like me for example, I lost the fat in my face and the bone structure really came out.

I got shredded, too.

I actually got laid like bananas in 2020-2021, a time during which I was unemployed and the poorest I'd been since college. I have a doctorate and have a professional license.

Guess what? Most of the cuties I tagged had zero clue about my education or credentials or earning potential.

I'm probably an outlier with the degree of improvement over my 20s.

But other things also help: experience, confidence, etc. Tho meaningless for initial attraction, enable you to pull the trigger and escalate faster and more efficiently and capitalize on opportunities too

LoveScoutCEO · 2023-04-23T00:38:14+00:00

Depends. There are a lot of guys who become more confident and calm as they age. Sometimes it is related to money, but you also see it in a lot of senior NCOs and older cops and firemen. They have been places and done things, and they have developed some real confidence that women like.

statsfodder · 2023-04-23T01:44:27+00:00

You can keep saying it all you like... it still won't make the statement true.

Reptheft · 2023-04-23T02:07:48+00:00

On average it does, and you people keep missing why.

No men don't inherently look better physically at 30 than 21. That's obvious.

But incidentally, the 30 year old may have a more muscular body and probably has a better job, more money, more property (home/car/etc.), higher status, better social skills, etc. than the 21 year old version of himself, simply because these things take time to build/obtain.

If all men had to rely on was their natural looks, most would be virgins for life. But there are other major contributing factors to male SMV, that an older guy is more likely to have achieved than his younger version.

Male SMV is heavily tied to action, and the longer you live the more actions you can take to improve your station.

YtBlue · 2023-04-22T18:35:05+00:00

This is a viewpoint from someone who doesn't understand what makes a man sexually attractive. Which is power. Power increases with age, provided you take care of yourself. Power, and availability is the two biggest necessities to be successful

Early-Christmas-4742 · 2023-04-22T18:26:38+00:00

Sure he'll become a better provider/ parent with things like maturity and higher income.

Better provider? Probably. Better parent? I wouldn't say so. He'l be much more able to keep teenagers safe and in lone in his late 30's/early 40's than someone that had kids in their 40's would.

Head-Language-2977 · 2023-04-22T18:30:50+00:00

I think you’re correct that men’s SMV does not go up. However, I believe dating for men still gets easier because a typical woman’s SMV declines faster than a typical man of the same age.

abaxeron · 2023-04-22T18:35:23+00:00

Men's SMV doesn't actually increase with aging.

In a sense that it stays at "insignificantly different from zero".

Women keep reminding us even here on PPD that men in general kinda suck, look weird, act terrible, etc., basically regardless of age. They also keep reminding us maybe weekly that women in general don't even enjoy penetrative sex, and so on. These very same women call themselves "strong" and "independent" but consistently hunt for partners who are either good earners, or potential good earners, and admit even here on PPD, again, very often, that they need education and career basically to make divorce easier. Things reach absurd levels when self-reported surveys sometimes even indicate that women who identify as straight report having similar or more of certain same-sex experiences than men who identify as bisexual.

In this sense, Yes; virtually every relationship a man has with a woman is a compromise, a transaction, a balance determined by how much he sacrifices for her, and how much she tolerates him thanks to those sacrifices.

BUT I have very serious suspicion that this is not what you meant.

Yes, no man becomes a woman's fantasy on his 30th birthday. No, it's mostly because virtually no woman fantasizes about a man himself, rather than means to fulfill her nesting instinct that getting with such a man could give her access to.

And in this sense, a smart man who invested into himself by getting good education and finding well-earning and not particularly hard career path - will have leverage over his younger counterparts at least by virtue of having free time and disposable income. Even if he fails to find a loyal partner to be happy with (well, as much as it's possible, considering all the above), it's much better to be single with education and professional experience in demand than without them.

bodhasattva · 2023-04-22T20:59:25+00:00

You are deadass wrong

theres alot of men who get better looking with age. They learn: skin care, diet/exercise, how to dress (no more JNCO's). Gain maturity & charm.

Yeah delete this thread lol

_corpus_callosum · 2023-04-22T17:14:46+00:00

Yeah, when men say they age like wine I just laugh because it’s such a cope and is obviously untrue.

The only man who gets better with age is George Clooney. Can’t explain it; he’s just miraculous. But that’s the only exception on the planet, as far as I know.

Bikerbats · 2023-04-22T18:53:26+00:00

You're right, but in the details you're as wrong as they are. Take it from an old man, it's true that your SMV decreases as you age. However OP, a mans 30's are usually the best for him when ALL things are taken into consideration. Where it really falls aparts is 40 (really late 30's) and beyond. Some uber successful guys might get by because their mansions, cars, and planes have more SMV than they do.

Vronicasawyerredsded · 2023-04-22T17:13:29+00:00

Men do not become better looking with age.

They don’t wear sunscreen daily, have a solid skin and hair care regimen, or exfoliate routinely.

They usually have less hair on their heads, grow carpets on their bodies, more hair in their nose and ears, develop more moles on their body, and less likely to keep up to date with current fashion trends.

After 30, especially, all that above shows more signs of age and determination, but testosterone levels decrease, as does muscle, height, many have their own healthy set of breasts, and their ability to maintain an erection declines. After 40 their ability to consistently maintain an erection dramatically declines.

Their scrotums hang lower and their butt evaporates into their gut.

They’re also more likely to have diseases like diabetes, hypertension, high cholesterol, become less social, and also drink more alcohol.

So then you’re stuck taking care of them, AND they’re no fun at all.

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PatienceOk3159 · 2023-04-22T18:47:22+00:00

I’d say when you get older you have a bullshit guard. And it keeps you more chilled with women and less dramatic. That helps a lot. Physically you prolly lost a touch though Somewhat.

LoopyPro · 2023-04-22T19:32:07+00:00

You wrongly assume that looks determine 100% of a guy's SMV, there's also money and status. Looks fade over time, but people can age gracefully if they take care of their bodies. Don't forget that time works in men's favor when it comes to acquiring money and status.

Men have agency. With the right amount of work, men can increase their SMV over time and are able to peak at a later stage then women, whose SMV is mostly determined by their looks and peaks much earlier.

3RADICATE_THEM · 2023-04-22T21:02:28+00:00

A man becomes more attractive if you do the right things in your 20s. Most men simply aren't able to have that great of a physique at age 20, because their bodies have only been primed for hypertrophy for about two years. There's also the fact that a lot of men's faces mature and develop a lot from age 18 to 25. While most women might find femboy baby faced guys fun to look at, it usually doesn't actually greater sexual tension or lust in many of them compared to a more masculine looking man.

And in before the whole, "women don't like guy with muscles" — what you think is a guy with an ideal body is a guy who still needs to hit the gym 4-5 times (yes predominantly hitting the weights to maintain LBM) a week with a consistent diet.

Why are you also completely overlooking the fact that the amount of money a man makes completely changes how a woman perceives them? We have direct data from multiple converging lines of data that shows women are literally more sexually attracted to a man who makes more money independent of other factors.

For example this study, "Females are four times more sensitive than males to economic status cues when rating opposite sex attractiveness, indicating that higher economic status can offset lower physical attractiveness in men much more easily than in women."

Or how women literally orgasm more when they have sex with a wealthy man (or a man they perceive to be wealthy).

Conscious_Ad_6572 · 2023-04-22T21:57:36+00:00

Woman don’t love men mostly, it’s status, money, freedom/security that they get the high

Sabrepill · 2023-04-22T22:18:12+00:00

This post is mostly wrong. The only thing that is right is that simply aging to 30 or 40 is not what magically makes men hotter at that age.

It has to do with who men become and what they accomplish by that age. Men who have accomplished little to nothing and are not capable become less attractive as they grow older.

Men who have accomplished things and made themselves capable tend to peak between 30-40 and sometimes even later. Some of these men were invisible to women in their 20s and are complete studs in their 30s and 40s.

So no, aging won’t magically make men attractive if they do nothing and grow old. But if they work hard, and refine themselves into more capable versions of themselves then men can peak even into their 50s

The perfect example of this is that the average age of hollywood male leads (typically heart throbs to the widest range of women young and old) is 43. These men didn’t magically become hot by aging; instead they passed the tests of nature, life, and masculinity and reached their peak.

EugeneCezanne · 2023-04-22T22:19:44+00:00

If you were unattractive at 20 you're not going to just become a woman's fantasy on your 30th birthday.

Usually this is true, because most men don't use their 20s very well in this regard. However, many of the things a man can do to become physically more attractive simply take time or need to be learned. It might take a guy 10 years before he can stick to a good diet plan, establish a gym routine, develop a sense of style, etc. A glow-up is absolutely possible.

Most men who are successful with women at 30 and beyond were also successful in their youth.

I think "most" is misleading here. Because, yes, it's probably true--but that statistic is influenced by the choices "most" men make along the way. If you tell men their SMV won't increase as they age, it will only disincentivize them from trying, when there are actually a lot of things they can predictably improve.

Also, SMV isn't just about looks. Obviously income and status matter too. But also, personality. Years of social experience can make a man much more charming than he ever could have been before. A lot of the younger women I know who date older men cite personality as the main factor--with men their age seen as immature, boring or obnoxious.

cute_boy_kisser · 2023-04-22T23:02:55+00:00

Beards, muscle mass (takes a bit to build mass naturally), higher income, may have their own place now, etc.

Men with a lot of potential tend to waste their early 20s. But yeah, if they were already hot or put no effort into their looks, they will probably look worse at 30. Just comes down to the individual.

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-04-22T23:05:56+00:00

I kind of agree. It's pretty uncommon for men to take really good care of themselves into their 30s and 40s. Especially when they work a sedentary job and have a sedentary lifestyle. I think most people can look good in their 30s and 40s if they do actually take care of themselves though. I think its a different aesthetic as well. When we are young we like other people in their early 20s for their youthful appearance.

However, just because you prefer younger guys now doesn't mean you won't be attracted to older men as you get older-- people usually find others their own age the most attractive.

Unfortunately looking attractive past 35 is a marker of wealth most of the time. If you're in poverty or poor most of your life you will probably age very poorly. However it seems most people on PPD are well off or have tech careers, so it's not impossible for people on here to be attractive at 35 just based on the fact that they make enough money to afford gym memberships and a healthy diet.

gymbronyc718 · 2023-04-23T00:06:00+00:00

Lol, I'm almost 42 and look the best I've ever looked in my life. I eat the best food, drink the best booze, take the best vacations, use the best cosmetics. I value myself and my health and it shows.

Kobe_curry24 · 2023-04-23T01:00:30+00:00

Yes it does

HighlyFlashy · 2023-04-23T01:02:35+00:00

Every person with common sense knows this

social_mule · 2023-04-23T01:20:32+00:00

If SMV consists 100% of looks then maybe. And even then it's 50/50 as some folks are late bloomers.

But since SMV encompasses much more than just looks you're dead wrong. While there's nothing magical about accumulating more birthdays, if one assumes a typical life trajectory it can be assumed that a man is more confident, financially stable, further along in his career and more socially calibrated at 35 than he was at 20. So yes, his SMV does increase in most instances.

And can we stop pretending that 35 year old men are bald with liver spots and wrinkles like Emperor Palpatine? A man in his 30s may be starting to lose his hair if he's genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness. And he's probably a little pudgy around the middle.

nattygang86 · 2023-04-23T01:33:46+00:00

men and women get uglier at the same rate as they age it's just the women take care of themselves and wear makeup leading them to age more gracefully. Men can do the same thing but many neglect aesthetics because following a beauty routine feels gay.

skon7 · 2023-04-23T01:50:51+00:00

I think the money basically is what overrides what men might lack in the looks department which is how ugly rich men and older rich men still get girls. However, a woman’s ultimate guy will have looks AND money. I would say men are attractive physically in their 20s and can still be very attractive in their 30s too because you aren’t exactly old looking yet, you just aren’t super young looking either. This goes for women too. Women don’t really look terribly bad in their 30s, they just don’t look super young like in their early to mid 20s. I would say there’s still many good looking women and men in the 30s range but men who have financial stability and the looks to go with it will be the most marketable which is why 30s for men are a good decade because it’s the decade where a man is not more financially stable but also more mature and still good looking enough that sexual attraction would be existent still.

Dramatic-Wishbone364 · 2023-04-23T03:55:16+00:00

Most men who are successful with women at 30 and beyond were also successful in their youth.

32M. This isn't true. It does indeed get easier as we get older. What changes is we learn the game and gain more confidence. It's far easier in my 30s than 20s.

alexaxl · 2023-04-23T04:24:07+00:00

“Can” build & evolve towards it.

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2023-04-23T06:47:33+00:00

Physical attractiveness decreases with age, but everything else that can give you a competitive advantage increases with age.

Bigger balls, better social skills->more punani. If you're meek and shy, you are utterly and completely fucked, unless you are a gigachad.

More money and status->hotter trophy wife. Self explanatory.

So yeah potentially their SMV can increase, if they put in the work and excel at it.

I mean there are probably tons of mediocre looking doctors with hot wives that they could have never dated otherwise if they weren't doctors. So ultimately they get the hot girl, they impregnate her, and if the marriage goes downhill, hopefully they were smart enough to get a prenup and not lose much in the divorce. Then they can pay a moderate amount of child support and keep banging younger chicks enticing them with money.

Saitama1993 · 2023-04-23T07:41:13+00:00

I think people are looking at this the wrong way. Men don't increase in value that much, besides some money and experience, but that only serves to compensate for the fact that we do get old like many of you have stated. It's just the value of women crashes after they get older and have kids, because men want young and child free. Would they fuck a hot single mama? Yea, sure. But not many would raise their kids.

Scarce12 · 2023-04-23T08:58:41+00:00

Again, just to rehearse this.

SMV isn't about quality, it's determined by the laws of supply and demand.

The sexual marketplace for a 30 year old man is much better than for a 20 year old man because 30 year old women can't compete against 20 year old women and they know it!

That's why they put out so much more on 1st dates and drop all the shit testing and ghosting that they did in their 20s.

There was even a "sex and the city episode" about it, where they met their 10 year younger doppelgangers.

Hell. There was even a thread posted on Reddit about how a 30 y.o. married woman hated her 20 old arse because her 20 y.o. group of friends used to sleep with married men because of the thrill of being a homewrecker.

Ludens0 · 2023-04-23T12:00:24+00:00

2 cases:

-Physical activity. There are fat sedentarists at their 20 that become gym beast at 30ish and look very very good.

-Well developed shy/bullied guys into introverted intelectual men with an interesting career and hobbies.

Both combined (very common) will destroy all the charts.

throwawayties1 · 2023-04-23T12:24:11+00:00

Eh disagree. I know of women personally who are literally turned on by “silver foxes”, those who have full head of hair with some grey undertones, noticeably a little older, but still look good for their age.

The key is how well you age. If you’re still reasonably fit and haven’t balded a man can look better as he ages.

In other words, it’s true that a lot of men dont age well, but if they do age well there is a good chance their SMV will increase. Combine this with the fact that their dating pool grows, then certain men can see and experience a lot more quality dates as they age.

Nellylocheadbean · 2023-04-23T12:49:53+00:00

I think this is definitely true for the average men. The average man (in the USA) makes like 50k, 5’9, overweight. Just like the average woman, the average man gains weight as he gets older and they also start to bald.

2023-04-23T17:39:15+00:00

Of course not. It actually decreases.

ATasteofTx214 · 2023-04-24T00:17:41+00:00

It's true and strange that guys don't seem to correlate that in older man/younger women scenarios, the older guy is the Beta in terms of Af/Bb, the Alpha would be the hot, broke douche who can smash with low effort, no?

Boxisteph · 2023-04-24T21:53:06+00:00

Old men struggle to protect but finances they can do well in.

Title	Men's SMV doesn't actually increase with aging.
Author	Ok-Map-7596
Upvotes	89
Comments	411
Date	April 22, 2023 4:13 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/12vaqkw/mens_smv_doesnt_actually_increase_with_aging/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/mens-smv-doesnt-actually-increase-with-aging.1215288 https://theredarchive.com/post/1215288

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