Doesn't being "on guard" with all men just drive away good men and leave only predators?

JadeGrapes · 2024-02-13T15:05:16+00:00

Seeing women on edge is like seeing a toupee... you only notice ones that are bad at hiding it.

There is a world of difference between "I would NEVER get in a car with a strange man!!!"

Versus: "Oh, I'll just drive myself, I'm coming from work"

Even though both of those statements are about not being driven into the woods to get murdered.

Same thing with "Sorry, I gotta check in with my cousin, she's flying in tomorrow"

versus "I gotta text my safety buddy or she will call the cops"

Or "I'm low key the sort of person that needs to know someone a month before I get sexual"

versus, "I've had a guy lay hands on me when I said no, are you like that?"

In my experience, guys that know and like women, even platonic ones like sisters etc... know enough to be understanding about not spooking the ladies.

They don't typical experience seeing behind the curtain on subtly guarded women, because they don't invade her space or treat her like a goal instead of a person.

If you wanna have a fun experiment, make a female account and see the shockingly high proportion of men that FULLY insist they pick you up in their car for a date, then ACTUALLY state "Why not? It's not like I'm going to rape you Hahaha"

In short, subtle women, matched with "don't spook the horses" men... don't have this problem.

TermAggravating8043 · 2024-02-13T12:09:49+00:00

It works perfectly fine most of the time.

Being “on guard” with a stranger is not that uncommon and most reasonable men and woman will understand they don’t know you so you’ll be polite but your not going to put yourself at risk for them, then once I’ve got to know you, the guards can start coming down,

RubyDiscus · 2024-02-13T12:04:42+00:00

What do you mean by "defensive and on edge"?

Honestly safety should be a priority for both men and women so it's not really anything unusual to want to meet in public at day for example and play it safe.

Legitimate_Type_1324 · 2024-02-13T13:12:07+00:00

And being receptive will bring both the nice guys and the predators.

Demasii · 2024-02-13T12:25:36+00:00

Predators consistently look for easy prey.

angelbaby933 · 2024-02-13T12:24:53+00:00

I’m on guard around men I don’t know and I have a lovely fiancé, male friends, get on great with male coworkers and have never been attacked by a predator, so it’s worked out fine for me.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2024-02-13T12:31:31+00:00

The sorts of things that women are trying to guard against are low probability, but very high impact when they happen. Basically, as a man, you need to be halfway decent at building trust. Once you master that you won’t have any further problems except that you will run into the occasional outlier sometimes who thinks literally everyone is a potential rapist and murderer. It is how it is.

NJFlowerchild · 2024-02-13T14:11:07+00:00

I would never date a stranger. I would never use apps or online sites. I wouldn't accept a cold approach. I am not spending time with any men in my life that makes me feel a need to be defensive or on edge. The men in my life have always made me feel comfortable. They wouldn't be there if they didn’t.

she comes off as defensive and on-edge, I'm just gonna leave. And I assume most men who try to keep a bead on a woman's level of discomfort will do the same.

As you should. Discomfort and on edge is feeling threatened. That's completely separate from disinterest.

But unfortunately, creeps don't give a damn about that, so logically, they will be the only men to continue to engage with you, right?

There's no "persistence pays off." If he doesn't respect my boundaries he's getting his ass handed to him. Most women aren't made uncomfortable by most men giving them attention. They hear a lack of interest or a direct no and move on. A man that doesn't respect boundaries is a threat and should be treated as such.

Ok-Map-7596 · 2024-02-13T12:33:26+00:00

Does OP seriously think women who are careful around men are targeted by predators more than women who aren't? Why would a predator target someone who is more suspicious and less trusting of him when he can just prey on women who think men are harmless?

krackedy · 2024-02-13T12:28:01+00:00

I'm not some amazing catch but when women come off as being on guard I just think "oh they're probably scared of being assaulted and don't know if I'm a decent guy yet". If they're still fun to talk to and hang out with I wouldn't give a fuck.

Zabadoodude · 2024-02-13T16:41:41+00:00

There's being defensive, and then there's reasonable precautions. Suggesting a crowded area for a first date, or not giving out your address to strangers, are a normal precautions. Acting like you're in a hostage negotiation when talking to men isn't, and will put off many good men.

Fortunately it's mostly just women online that are this worried and defensive. My first date with my gf was dinner and drinks at a pub. We then walked to another bar. At night. Down a mostly deserted street.

MyHouseOnMars- · 2024-02-13T12:33:06+00:00

Being on guard means meeting in a public place, letting my friends know where I'm at and letting them know the date ended well.

If you are not ok with me doing this you probably aren't a good guy anyway

wtknight · 2024-02-13T12:15:10+00:00

I think that the idea is that, if the good man is into her enough, then he will understand and tolerate the “on-guard behavior” until she gets to know him better. His understanding and tolerance is what makes him “good”.

Havel68 · 2024-02-13T12:46:01+00:00

I think it all depends on context. Many people meet partners through situations like school, work or other friends. In those situations its more relaxed as you get to know the person over a period of time and to some extent they are pre-vetted by the company they keep.

Anyone male or female is wise to keep their guard up meeting a stranger online or in a bar.

NoDanaOnlyZuuI · 2024-02-13T12:24:18+00:00

On guard doesn’t mean defensive and on-edge.

Good men understand our wariness and aren’t put off by it. If you are, you’re not a good man.

Sorcha16 · 2024-02-13T13:44:52+00:00

Do you think having security at a store drives away good customers and leaves only shoplifters.

Financial-Pudding134 · 2024-02-13T12:14:18+00:00

So leave.

It’s not that deep.

By no means should women just think of their own safety as an afterthought because of this logic.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-02-13T13:07:21+00:00

It’s not like a video game where you press the button enough and you break through her defenses.

Clementinequeen95 · 2024-02-13T13:39:13+00:00

I’m on guard with all men after living a lifetime of harassment, sexual assault and more. Every woman has had incidents with men that, as a result, make you wary going forward. There’s been cases of women getting murdered on dates with men from OLD. Everyone should prioritize safety. I hate to say this but a fair amount of men are creepy. If you’re “driven away” by women prioritizing their safety then maybe you’re not that great of a guy.

TotalTravesty · 2024-02-13T14:04:05+00:00

It’s possible to date a careful woman while allowing her the (relatively short, if I’m being honest) time to warm up and trust you. Just takes a little empathy and enough of a thick skin to not take her carefulness personally.

Assuming she isn’t crazy about it like some of the examples in this thread, skittishly running away from a woman who takes precautions doesn’t make you “good,” just unable to handle the reality of dating women.

Sadsad0088 · 2024-02-13T14:19:35+00:00

I’ll be defensive and on edge if I’m not interested and the guy is not picking up cues

Otherwise I interact normally

Safinated · 2024-02-13T15:22:05+00:00

Not in my experience

Most men know and accept why women are on guard, especially dads

purplish_possum · 2024-02-13T15:54:30+00:00

Women suck when it comes to dating strategy. File this is the same bucket as "you should make him wait."

Comfortable-Wish-192 · 2024-02-13T12:51:47+00:00

We aren’t on guard with all men. We’re on guard when we are at risk. Dark alleys. Walking at night. Or first dates with strangers.

In these circumstances we set it up so it’s fun not anxiety producing by assuring it’s in a public place.

If a guy doesn’t care about me feeling comfortable and safe he’s not a guy I’d be interested in. I didn’t announce it I merely suggested coffee or lunch for a first date so I’d be comfortable.

Lenovo_Driver · 2024-02-13T13:14:06+00:00

Can’t the same be said about the shit red pilled dudes do/say/act or believe?

It’s never been safer for women. If they don’t want to let their guard down around you or any man, look internally at the cause.

I can assure they didn’t all meet up one day and vote to make this a consensus.

upalse · 2024-02-13T15:18:47+00:00

This is not that specific to women, but how a mark and a hustler interact. People who are easily scammed are fed a story. They then double down ("It passed all my precautions, so it must be legit, no way my superior lie detector/intellect could be wrong!") even after red flags show up.

Paradoxically extremely risk averse people are easiest to con, as they tend to overestimate small risk but underestimate big ones.

rma5690 · 2024-02-13T19:54:41+00:00

It doesn't leave only predators, but it selects for a population that will have a higher percentage of predators than the population selected out. Predators are unsurprisingly, predatory. They are rarely too meek to approach women.

As for driving away good men, can we really say that a non-confrontational, harmless man is actually good? Not nessecarilly. That's the issue. Our modern morality has become too obsessed with universal harm-avoidance as the ruling principle and it's creating massive systemic problems in our society. Confusing men about how they should conduct themselves in order to succeed in life is amoung them.

The best way I can put it; If everybody in the world hates you, you probably did something wrong. If nobody in the world hates you, you definitely did something wrong.

Obvious_Smoke3633 · 2024-02-14T13:44:43+00:00

I'd rather be crazy than skinned and used as buffalo bills lamp shade. Thanks.

JessWhoIsTrans · 2024-02-14T15:37:29+00:00

If enough women are defensive and on-edge around you for it to be a noticeable pattern, you might want to examine your own behavior

baiser_vole · 2024-02-13T14:16:12+00:00

I am dating a guy I met in high school for a reason. I already know he is good. Just date who you already know. Problem solved.

Expensive-Tea455 · 2024-02-13T14:46:30+00:00

No, I attract some really great guys due to being on guard and setting boundaries… the only men that get scared off imo are the ones who had ulterior motives 🌝

OfSpock · 2024-02-14T00:42:03+00:00

Red pill assures me repeatedly that treating all women like they're gold digging sluts will not chase away nice women leaving only the gold digging sluts so I guess this won't either.

Literal_Jesus_ · 2024-02-13T14:25:53+00:00

Most women that are “on guard” aren’t interested in associating with any men in a romantic context.

What you’re describing sounds like someone that didn’t feel like having a conversation with that person. Her motives or reasons for why aren’t your business.

A_E_G · 2024-02-13T15:39:01+00:00

The real good men do not care about such things. They just do what they do, and because of their confidence people gravitate toward them.

If women are "defensive" and "on-edge" when you speak to them, you probably have some issue with body language/personal space/social awareness that you're not aware of.

SeveralAcorns · 2024-02-13T15:32:37+00:00

Women are wary and careful around men because they want to ensure their safety. Okay cool, that sounds reasonable.

...

Is there a piece of the puzzle I'm missing?

The puzzle you seem to miss is that being careful around men included getting away from the men that you call "creeps".

If a woman is creeped out by you and you leave, that is not her missing a good guy. That is her being defensive and careful for a reason.

This thread sounds like the typical "niceguy doesn't understand he is the problem and women actually want a nice guy but are overlooking him because other men are acting bad".

SlashCo80 · 2024-02-13T12:43:42+00:00

I was thinking something similar a few days ago. If the good guys are hammered over the head with the fact that men are creepy and threatening and should leave women alone, guess what - they'll take it to heart and leave women alone. The only ones still approaching will be the actual creeps and fuckbois. Cue the surprised Pikachu face.

Mysterious-Floor-909 · 2024-02-13T12:53:53+00:00

I just have to add that crime rates been going down everywhere. It's the safest time in history.

SecondEldenLord · 2024-02-13T13:27:09+00:00

Nowadays most women see everyone with a dick as a rapist and assaulter. Oh, but that reasonable, if we men see most women as shallow and gold diggers, that's misogyny. You can't make this shit up.

TRTGymBro · 2024-02-13T13:36:35+00:00

I think it's much more likely that a woman like this will end up lamenting to her girlfriends about where all the good men have gone while refusing to look in the mirror.

In a lot of ways, neurotic behavior like this is just the female equivalent of a man who is so afraid of potential rejection that he doesn't even go out to socialize. The problem is the irrational neurosis and irrational beliefs that drive neurotic behavior and other maladaptive behaviors.

At the end of the day if a woman is so terrified of men, how much fun can she actually be?

TheOffice_Account · 2024-02-13T15:11:56+00:00

Yeah, it is reasonable to leave a woman who is needlessly^¹ paranoid about you.

Either she has repeatedly made bad choices in men, and is projecting all of that on to you as well. This won't end well for you.
Or she has severe mental health issues, and needs a therapist/medication more than a boyfriend.

^¹ Obviously, this is a judgement call, and you need to decide whether her actions - within that culture and situation - are needly paranoid, or just regular prudence & care.

thisreallyisnotok · 2024-02-13T15:38:58+00:00

FYI women who are like this are usually just shit testing you to see if you get upset. They have a laundry list of cock blocks and turn offs they will throw at you and as soon as you seem to not be enjoying it they’ll go “aha he’s a bad guy”

I recommend you slight these women as subtly as you can then ditch them.

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-02-13T17:15:11+00:00

To all the women talking about day dates... The time of the date has implications... Dates typically earlier in the day before dusk are usually considered less romantic and more platonic... And last thing you want as a guy is to put yourself in that platonic Zone...

AethertheEternal · 2024-02-13T15:57:27+00:00

Women are mostly “on guard” around low status and unattractive men. The most desirable men will still have an abundance of options. Predatory men were simply going to prey on more vulnerable women no matter what.

Cethlinnstooth · 2024-02-13T18:34:34+00:00

Good people tend to not feel strangers owe them much.

Bordbir · 2024-02-13T20:25:32+00:00

No most guys understand women have to look out for their wellbeing. That’s just survival instinct. That doesn’t mean it’s ok to be rude though.

froderenfelemus · 2024-02-13T21:40:57+00:00

I personally haven’t had issues with this.

I wouldn’t describe myself as defensive or on edge, but definitely cautious. Good men usually respect that and understand it. “Predators” (or just men who are openly seeking casual sex) usually just nope out and save both of us the time and energy

apresonly · 2024-02-13T22:04:02+00:00

It might. But what's the answer to that?

Obviously not being on guard means you're not guarding against predators, so predators can get you either way.

I came to a point where after trying all different things to avoid predators I realized they are the cost of doing business with men and this cost was too high (because they were consistently harming me), so I opted out of dating altogether.

SoldierExcelsior · 2024-02-13T13:39:41+00:00

That's how most BW come off and incidently that are th least chosen and tend to have the worst relationships statistically.

Commercial-Engineer3 · 2024-02-13T13:56:49+00:00

Yup when women get start showing their trauma I'm gone. I had a very good upbringing and have no childhood trauma issues.

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Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-02-13T13:48:32+00:00

But then if I play that out in my head, if I'm talking to a woman I don't know and she comes off as defensive and on-edge,

You’re describing disinterest, not fear. A lot of women aren’t interested in the utter stranger who tries to pick up women based on nothing other than her looks.

ladyindev · 2024-02-13T14:09:04+00:00

It’s usually the other way around in my observations and experience, but I haven’t looked up any data or research on this yet.

Depends on how she comes across while being on guard. Either way, it’s probably more likely to filter out creeps, insecure men, men with not the greatest intentions, those who aren’t genuinely curious to know you as a person, etc. than someone who is a right match for you.

I’ve been on guard to the extent of avoiding relationships much longer than my friends when I was younger. I don’t regret it all tbh. I opened up at my own pace and I explored at my own comfort level. I live according to my own rules and my own desires, not really according to how open or approachable men (or women) think I should be in terms of them approaching. I’m in my first actually serious, committed, monogamous relationship now and we’re discussing engagement. I’ve been super intentional and focused and that made my decisions on who to allow into my space so easy. It easy has helped me enjoy being single before him. I was never miserably single or longing for a man. I found one when I wanted to find one and put the effort into being more accessible.

The wrong men love an easy target. I’ve seen men try to play me a few times and it never worked because the kind of perseverance and liar skills you would need to play me probably aren’t worth it in the end when there’s a much more accessible open target. Now, don’t get me wrong, women with “strong personalities” like mine can definitely end up in abusive relationships, but that’s not exactly what I’m talking about on it’s own. Being guarded for many of us is primarily about discernment, a high bar for respect, and very firm boundaries. These are all things that make it much easier to catch early warning signs of behavior that is a preview of things to come and make it easier to love and value yourself to such a standard that you’re easily willing to cut men off who don’t meet that standard and therefore much more likely to avoid being deeply involved with those men.

I can tell you that it has been rare for me to have envied my friends / associates who aren’t guarded. Almost all of them have been in very traumatic situations and accepted things from men that I would never. Part my guarded nature was fear but a lot of it was also discernment and being very cautious about giving up my mental health and freedom to men who weren’t worth it and before I was ready. Not saying being mega guarded is the only answer but tbh I think having strong boundaries and discernment probably push one in that direction. There’s a balance, but you can easily become very selective and I think that if you can learn how to deconstruct some of that as you get older, it’s more protective than anything.

Edit: I read one of your comments and what you’ve described is not merely being on guard. You’re talking about people with high paranoia, assuming they’re serious, and enough to the extent that they would actually tell you about thinking you’re a murderer in a serious way. That’s not the norm. Women do have to be mindful of safety and should take precautions, but I’ve never asked someone if they would murder me or used the language of “eyewitnesses.” I’m not THAT guarded though, that I would only go on daytime dates. I went on evening dates too and depending on the vibe, I’ve gone to someone’s house or hotel way before I should have. Other guys I never even kissed beyond a peck and kept physical distance. I thought you meant something different lol

theReaders · 2024-02-13T15:50:11+00:00

you're missing the part where women sending signals that they are uncomfortable then get to react to a person's failure or refusal to pick up on them

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-02-13T19:05:49+00:00

Some women play up the stranger danger thing too much imo. I had a young coworker tell me she didn’t want to walk to her car because she was a woman and it was dark. I’m like… it’s a 5 minute walk at 6 pm in a nice development. I’ve been in some situations that were 100x sketchier where I was very alert.

Regardless, I just think of it like this: someone who’s determined to break into your house is going to break into your house. Does that mean you leave your doors unlocked and your windows open?

AlmostKindaGreat · 2024-02-13T19:10:53+00:00

I don't think it's usually some kind of conscious strategy. Women just feel more or less cautious based on their personality and experiences. Maybe some women present as disagreeable to ward off advances, but there is still the idea of safety involved in the equation.

Bad things can happen, some of them specific to women. There's no solution to this. As a man I just keep this in mind and do my best to present myself as kind and safe. I don't take it personally that women strangers don't know that I'm completely harmless.

Odd-Luck7658 · 2024-02-13T19:32:52+00:00

Does not drive away the good men, but it does drive away you.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2024-02-13T19:48:34+00:00

Depends on what you mean by ''defensive and on-edge''. If someone is super paranoid and demands a piece of ID before meeting you, and are just super rude and standoffish while talking to you, sure, that will be a turn-off for decent dudes but it will also be a turn-off for creeps. While some scumbags love a challenge and will happily play the role of the decent person for a bit, most of them aren't these scheming Machiavelli types, they're just dudes looking for someone who is easy and gullible. If you're giving them a hard time, they'll fuck off because it's a pain in the ass to deal with you.

If by defensive and on-edge you mean someone is firm in their desire to not meet you in a secluded one-on-one situation on the first date, that usually works pretty well. Decent guys understand the reasoning behind it, and creepy dudes dip because, again, most of them just want things to go the easy way.

Wonderful-Team-1315 · 2024-02-13T22:39:57+00:00

she comes off as defensive and on-edge

Do you run into that often? I mean I'm going to do the same if the man is defensive 🤷‍♀️

But unfortunately, creeps don't give a damn about that, so logically, they will be the only men to continue to engage with you, right?

That's true. I'm a living proof. I have a socially outgoing personality in normal life. I can strike a conversation with any random person which leads to random men asking me out baldly and explicitly..i reject. With time , i realized that they're mistaking my personality with interest... The problem is that my outgoing personality crumbles in 2 situations : If I truly like someone, i stop being awesome outgoing me... I also stumble if I'm in an abnormal situation...where the other party involved in the conversation is not acting normal. Remember, at the end any conversation or behavior involves 2 parties, both are responsible for how things go.

YearnsToDestroySun · 2024-02-14T01:04:16+00:00

I think you're onto something here. Noticeably because the men that are 'dubbed' good with women tend to pursue the hardest in almost a sociopathic attitude.

Jordan Peterson make some good points about this if society ever pulls their butts out of their own anal cavities.

There's the elephant in the room that empirically women have been known to fall for the bad boy, dark triad types despite the female hivemind fervently denying that this is true.

Enough so, that I think it's fundamentally biological and we still play games as a society to not mitigate this downside wisely because we're afraid to just accept the not pleasant truth.

The reality is, the sociopathic types know how to be charming and dishonest to the point they can always appear on the surface the safer choice than the more honest and truly safer/protective men (because honesty isn't always pleasant especially initially). The sociopaths have much more talent to hide red flags than the honest ones....and at the end of the day, everybody do posses some red flags.

If dark triad toxicity is to end, the reward systems need to be halted for such behavior, especially on the front of sexual rewards.

But as long as we have dopamine, zombie emotionally induced NPC first reactions resonate predominantly in a culture, it will never change and we're doomed.

2024-02-14T01:17:10+00:00

I have to be on guard with women. Just this evening I got a DM from a woman who was angry with me and my comments. After some conversation she offered to show me her vagina. She did this to trick me and taunt me into being sexual, just to laugh and make fun. I turned down the offer because I knew that’s what she was doing.. this strengthens my belief men should turn down all sexual and romantic advances.

MattPayneWrestler · 2024-02-14T04:06:52+00:00

GuysItsGalxy · 2024-02-14T07:43:04+00:00

See the difference is EVERYONE is on guard when meeting new individuals, women just take it to an extreme because they feel the justification to do so when they really don't have any more right than the guy does

You're right though being OVERLY defensive, on edge, and just generally rude to be frank will push the men who know what's up away and leave the guys who can waste time to pursue you for quick pleasures

In this culture no one wins, everyone's sad and miserable and blaming it on everyone else

Suddenfury · 2024-02-14T10:36:57+00:00

As some other posters has pointed out, this is mostly an online thing. But the dynamic is certainly present there. If someone writes into their profile "Don't DM me" it's only going to stop the people reading your profile and cares from DM'ing.
What it means for you: Its not a puzzle worth solving. Don't get offended over things like this or take to seriously what people say, most people are idiots anyway. Flow around and stay where you feel welcome.

Celebrate_the_Fact · 2024-02-14T18:22:13+00:00

What’s wrong with that? I’m on guard with women

BigPoleFoles52 · 2024-02-15T01:04:33+00:00

Yup then they complain about “all men do x” not realizing they alienate most good guys.

Title	Doesn't being "on guard" with all men just drive away good men and leave only predators?
Author	Im_Unsure_For_Sure
Upvotes	88
Comments	407
Date	February 13, 2024 12:00 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1aprsni/doesnt_being_on_guard_with_all_men_just_drive/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/doesnt-being-on-guard-with-all-men-just-drive-away.1245297 https://theredarchive.com/post/1245297

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