Jordan Peterson tells young men to sacrifice themselves and endure. Young men should suck it up. It is my belief that men have the right to opt out of a society that discriminates against them.

Redpill-mind · 2024-09-16T14:16:15+00:00

What is your opinion on this? Do you think that men should sacrifice themselves to the utmost for women and for society, or should men opt out of a social “deal” that doesn't suit them?

Men can do whatever they wanna do

That's the principles of masculinity

Devourer_of_felines · 2024-09-16T19:27:48+00:00

Men aren’t a united monolith no matter how much the more vocal feminists of the world pretend otherwise.

For those who are doing well by virtue of luck or merit there’s no reason to check out of society. And as to what Peterson says; well if you’re disenfranchised there’s nothing forcing you to stay in the rat race or finding a woman to marry.

StosifJalin · 2024-09-16T17:43:59+00:00

I think JPs message is more along the lines of "men should make sacrifices and take on responsibility because doing those things make them better and improves their lives." I don't think he says men should do this for women or for society, but for themselves. To get their own affairs in order, and by doing so, finding strength, meaning and purpose in life that makes it more likely for men to find success than the men who do not.

Different_Goat_87 · 2024-09-16T18:31:05+00:00

Imaginary_Sleep_6329 · 2024-09-16T20:11:01+00:00

Men should niether participate in the system in good faith nor "opt out" of the system.

I put opt out in quotes because the same people that created this playing field are ecstatic at the idea of you reducing yourself to a genetic dead-end consumer. The modern economy doesn't want strong families; It wants dopamine addicts that can only ever afford to pay the minimum credit card payment or subscribe/rent rather than own.

The best way to react to the system is to participate in bad faith wherever possible.

0.0001 percent native American? Go get your scholarship.

Look up places where shoplifting is not prosecuted below a dollar and have your material needs taken care of.

Get on disability for knee pain that you know you're perfectly capable of walking off.

Go to the emergency room for every single health issue that comes up.

Only work jobs that pay under the table. Never report your real income.

Panhandle to your hearts content. Make sure you target affluent liberal neighborhoods.

Identity every opportunity to be a burden on everyone around you at minimal cost of personal effort. Make yourself a problem that has to be dealt with, but can't due to the system's impotence.

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-09-16T15:11:26+00:00

I don’t understand why some men act like they can’t do what they want. No one is forcing men to get married, have children, get a girlfriend etc. You can be a free agent until the day you die and no one will care.

Don’t want to sacrifice yourself for women and society? Then don’t. Life is short and you should do what makes you happy.

banthaaaa · 2024-09-16T20:33:19+00:00

I don't disagree with lots of this, but a "Spartan death" literally means dying for the state/government.

luroot · 2024-09-16T22:36:45+00:00

Lol, JP tells his followers to stay worker bees in the hive...while he gets paid tens of thousands a month to ragebait on social media to farm engagement.

Remember guys, these brocasters aren't going to get clicks just posting sensible takes. They need to keep pushing buttons to get all the rubberneckers clicking on, responding to, and reposting their content. This whole thread is a case-in-point of that mechanism at work.

naked_engineer · 2024-09-16T14:08:11+00:00

Peterson is a hack and a fraud who I wouldn't ask for the time of day. He could tell me the sky is blue and I'd ask for a citation. Anyone engaging with what he says without first acknowledging just how insanely stupid the things he says are, is setting themselves up to be swindled.

his_purple_majesty · 2024-09-16T19:35:32+00:00

Do you think that men should sacrifice themselves to the utmost for women and for society

Fuck no

Isn't his argument that you'll find a sense of meaning and purpose in taking on responsibilities that help society?

I don't think he's right, at least not across the board. However, I don't think he's just saying that you should resign yourself to misery in service of others.

DzejSiDi · 2024-09-16T20:31:55+00:00

Ah, old manosphere post. And he's totally right.

Credit where credit is due, Peterson's apporach to the world is useful, if you're on your knees trying to stand up. If you're already walking, you need to ditch him, because he's a tradcuck. He doesn't care about your wellbeing, only about the society - society that in many western countries is antagonised against you.

"Just take responsibilities bucko!", completely oblivious to the fact that reponsibility without authority is slavery.

Why would any man want to sacrifice himself for a society that exploits him

insert random word salad that includes a dragon of chaos emerging from you not sucking it up

Adding insult to injury, after years of criticising men, who decided to give up/not care after getting gutpunched by life (this is even shown in Aaron's post), Peterson did not take his own blow from life gracefully at all. Like a fat, smoking coach telling his athlete "you're lazy and undiciplined!"

ArtifactFan65 · 2024-09-16T22:01:19+00:00

He's a loser. Slave morality personified. There's no duty under capitalism.

TomCatoNineLives · 2024-09-16T14:40:13+00:00

Men need to renegotiate their "deal" with society in a manner similar to how women did with feminism in the last century. We need to renegotiate the deal to put our own interests and wellbeing foremost, and to stop sacrificing those things for others (whether they ever asked us to sacrifice or not). However, that is going to require deciding what those interests and what that wellbeing is, first.

One thing it will have to involve is breaking out of the thinking that women (or families, or social status, or careers, or money) are prizes we get for playing a game. We are not "competing," with the government or anyone else, for women.

Wave-Maker-1122 · 2024-09-16T16:40:02+00:00

Most famous faces & especially tradcons are grifters. JP is a pill popping manic & his daughter is a radical 304. The guys has words but his actions & how things have played out for him tells a very different story.

Also frankly if you are employed by Daily Wire you are at least a little evil. At best we know what master you serve! (Yeah IYKYK)

Willow-girl · 2024-09-16T15:48:56+00:00

That can be exploited as tax cattle.

Read some government reports and you'll see that we're regarded rather as livestock.

SCOTUS Justice ACB's use of the phrase "domestic supply of infants" is an example.

SaBahRub · 2024-09-16T14:27:01+00:00

No ones forcing men to get married, work or have babies

thegoodearthquake · 2024-09-16T15:16:09+00:00

That guy is a lunatic. Too much popularity got in his head. Thinks he is the plato or marcus aureilus of current generation.

Novadina · 2024-09-16T17:14:45+00:00

The real trouble in the Western world is that men have to compete for women with the government.

How? I thought of all the reasons I enjoy having my partner and don’t see any way to get any of that from the government? Are you talking the US gov or some other country? The US government at least does not offer being my life partner, give me companionship, or give me orgasms.

And without any reward for it.

I get paid for my work. I think in capitalism that’s supposed to be the reward? What kind of reward were you hoping for?

Why would any man want to sacrifice himself for a society that exploits him. Why would any man sacrifice himself for a woman that exploits him.

He shouldn’t. I highly suggest not doing so. Don’t join the army. Don’t even marry a woman who is exploiting you, much less “sacrifice” yourself for her.

What is your opinion on this?

I think men should do whatever they want to.

Why should men still want to have children and get married if the divorce rate is 50% and the divorce is usually filed by the woman?

The divorce rate on first marriages is not 50%, that stat is caused by some people tending to divorce multiple times. I am unsure how who files the paperwork says anything about anything. Do you think women eat most of the food in this country because they usually are the ones buying it?

Isn’t this too great a risk?

If you are into statistics, you can easily reduce those divorce statistic numbers by adding more variables to it. For example - college educated women have the lowest divorce rate. Just look up marriage statistics to see more variables you can filter for. However if you don’t want to get married, not doing so is just as valid of a choice.

proffessorCouch · 2024-09-16T15:10:17+00:00

Society and women could all burn to the ground for all I care. I cannot even fathom why any man would ever hold even the slightest care for something that not only doesn’t give one damn about you but also wants to exploit you for all they can get.

AngelEyes_9 · 2024-09-16T15:49:52+00:00

The real reason why Peterson wants men to persist even without being rewarded is his inner fear of what the world will become once men lose their primal evolutionary stimulation to do something in this world.

Feisty_Response_9401 · 2024-09-16T17:39:20+00:00

I understand the intention of Peterson, but those things are already over. The social values that valued those habits are dead.

Plazmatron44 · 2024-09-16T20:42:47+00:00

Typical tradcuckery from Peterson.

hongsta2285 · 2024-09-16T17:34:34+00:00

I'm not even sorry when I say this

Its not up to any blokes men or other people to intervene or help society. Whether or not u think its the moral ethical or right thing to do.

I'm not gonna be labelled a grapist. Get sued for helping. Get allegations and waste my time and money to prove my innocence. Give police statements etc etc. I've had a long hard day and I ain't interested besides getting home and relaxing. I don't want to be caught in a cross fire and I don't wanna take unexpected journey to the hospital. I ain't interested full stop.

People need to understand what happens when u get a whole society of disenfranchised men.

Many Good men stop bad men from doing bad things

When society is broken fewer good men exist to stop bad men from doing bad things.

Now its the combination of many many many things. Court systems . Treatment of men. The narrative of the dumb bumbling oaf perpetuated in society. Lack of respect for men. Lack of help and support groups for men. Most homeless are men. Highest suicide rate are men. Once it's eroded and men walk away society basically falls apart.

Men are done! Men don't care! Things are all about equality now, cool have your equality. I've seen so many movies 59kg women can throw around 80kg to 100kg built men like rag dolls. I ain't interested neither should any other men full stop. White knights and standing up and doing the right thing isn't rewarded in society.

So besides law enforcement we as men sign out and put it in the I no longer care basket. You are on your own. Of course I don't speak for all men but I sure as hell speak for a lot and I mean, A LOT of disenfranchised men. No point not my problem 🤷‍♂️ I'm happy to take out my phone and record it and then upload it as an anonymous source.

PS Ah I honestly love this, the fact that I can honestly say what's on the mind of a lot of disenfranchised men's mind. Remember fellas in today's day and age no good deed goes unpunished. It's not worth it to intervene and get caught in the cross fire and have life changing life altering or debilitating way in a system that doesn't care.

If u sustain permanent damage trying to help. Yeah good luck living a normal life in already hard circumstances. They victim or society isn't gonna reimburse you shite. Unless you are my immediate family. Disenfranchised Men in society don't owe anyone anything to help out not ever. Good luck friends and look after yourselves...

purplish_possum · 2024-09-16T14:09:11+00:00

The social contract of marriage is broken. Only a fool performs a contract when he knows there's a high likelihood the other party will not perform.

Guys need to become more selfish.

abaxeron · 2024-09-16T18:09:36+00:00

I think it's one of the dumbest things imaginable to try to convince people older than roughly 5 to work against their own interests. Evolution knows no morals, nature obeys its own laws, and everything is happening as it is supposed to (including bad things). Never-married adult men outnumber women 3 to 2, and the gap is widening with acceleration. The thing is, you cannot milk single men. You try to tax them more, they downshift, start working part-time, and cut their expenses. Society cannot run on single men, because you cannot force single men to break their backs laying bricks, pouring concrete, smelting steel, welding underwater pipes, or driving old stinky trucks 12 hours a day. Society cannot run on single women either, because even if they try to do these things, their health just breaks shortly. Either the new reality will have to somehow deal with very few men doing these things, or the deal gets renegotiated. There is no third option.

Gravel_Roads · 2024-09-16T14:34:49+00:00

the path society tells them to walk down to ends, for the vast majority, on the chopping block

What chopping block? No one has a "end game" plan for you, bro - no one intends to kill you or eat you or keep track of you. If you "opted out of society" tomorrow, no one would care as long as you actually left and weren't taking advantage of the labors of society like a NEET.

The real trouble in the Western world is that men have to compete for women with the government. And without any reward for it.

Wait, if you're competing "for a woman", isn't the woman the reward? I'm not even saying I agree - the only time the government has interfered in my dating life was back when gay marriage was still illegal (because I'm bi, so any time I dated men, I had to accept that I wouldn't be able to marry them.)

Do you think that men should sacrifice themselves to the utmost for women and for society, or should men opt out of a social “deal” that doesn't suit them?

I'm an old hippy, and I know people who have "opted out" of society. Some of them live in Alaska, some life in New Mexico so I want to be clear: opt out if you want!

But the issue is you seem to think working to pay your bills is somehow "sacrificing for women". It's not. It's "sacrificing" your time for YOURSELF so you can have an apartment and a cell phone and running water.

If the "deal that doesn't suit you" is you want to receive a WOMAN for all your labor, then yes, you may as well opt out and go live in the desert, because there is currently no society that will give you a whole ass human just for working a 9-5.

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VWGUYWV · 2024-09-16T15:08:24+00:00

Jordan Peterson is a smart man but a lot of his reasoning comes off as motivated by reaching the conclusion that he’d like or because of the good consequences of the belief.

For instance, his views on Christianity.

W-Pilled · 2024-09-16T21:35:01+00:00

Andrew Tate is losing his mind

HeForeverBleeds · 2024-09-16T21:50:52+00:00

Every man should live how he wants to as an individual rather than conforming to social expectations. The whole concept of "men shirking responsibilities" implies men inherently owe women something.

Men owe women as much as women owe men. And feminists are always reminding us that women owe men nothing.

SecondEldenLord · 2024-09-17T00:14:47+00:00

When it comes to masculinity, men should do what is best for them, if they receive the rewards and respect for their effort, then good on them, but if they don't, then opting out of society is not a bad idea. Society itself should suffer the consequences for not respecting out hard working men.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-09-16T14:00:56+00:00

My opinion?

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BluePillUprising · 2024-09-16T16:00:33+00:00

Life has never been fair. And you have access to resources and advantages that earlier generations could not have imagined.

Young men are experiencing less romantic success because of how the internet has made it possible to live a life completely devoid of human interaction.

This is the problem, not some cruel form of “discrimination”.

I don’t often agree with Peterson, I actually think he’s a bit of a joke, but he’s absolutely right here. You can make choices that will make you feel better about yourself and, as an unintended consequence, more attractive.

Or you can choose to opt out of achievement and self-fulfillment and devote your time to whining and jerking off. Which…has its own unique charm, but I choose the former.

apresonly · 2024-09-16T16:57:53+00:00

his advice isn't working out so well for him so it would be stupid for other people to take it

Christian_Kong · 2024-09-16T18:16:45+00:00

Jordan Peterson is an idiot and a grifter.

He likes to talk about various aspects of other species behaviors and hierarchy(sometimes incorrectly).

Tribes would work together since they all contributed to a greater goal. We aren't exactly largely a tribe anymore, not in the traditional sense. Some have families or tight knit groups.

Other people are essentially a tribe of one. Sure they pay taxes and follow the rules(in part to not be jailed but also ease of life) but they don't need to suffer for the betterment of others. They don't need to hunt so others can farm or whatever. They can self sustain and that is all anyone really needs to do.

half_avocado33 · 2024-09-16T14:13:09+00:00

"they", "societal role", "chopping block", "reward"

I can't really understand who are you arguing with, what the subject is and what reward you expected.

jay_de-leon · 2024-09-16T14:18:50+00:00

Jordan Peterson is just another on the long list of so called male “influencers” that are completely full of shit and anybody that listens to him is an idiot

That being said absolutely men should turn their back on society. As a man I don’t owe society a damn thing because society hasn’t a done a damn thing for me. A real man lives life under his own terms and conditions and becomes the master of his own reality 💯

falconress · 2024-09-16T17:01:19+00:00

this is such in interesting post because a lot of you and society and in general yell at women for doing just this.

obviousredflag · 2024-09-16T14:15:17+00:00

Why would any man want to sacrifice himself for a society that exploits him.

Sacrifice himself for a society? By doing what?

In what way is society exploiting the man? By not giving him a woman to fuck but expect him to not live on social security?

Who is checking out exactly? The few MGTOW weasles? How many men check out and why should we care?

I don't think there is an alterantive to our evolved hierarchical systems and the behavior that it leads to. You can get a girlfriend at any level. If you want a hotter one, get up to a better position.

Other than that, most of what Peterson said in the last years is unhinged religious conservative ideology, painted as "the truth". He is great in criticizing the left, but he is not better than them at providing solution to how to run society.

Slipthe · 2024-09-16T16:43:28+00:00

Are women not sacrificing for men?

Shit, that's what marriage is really all about. Insurances for her as she is about to tank her SMV to have your offspring.

What other rewards did you want?

More sex? Then you gotta keep making your wife feel special. For most women, desire for sex is a reaction, not spontaneous. If that's an issue, you gotta keep shopping until you find a woman that has a spontaneous libido like yourself.

And if you want more sex, don't have kids then. They fuck everything up unless you can pay for someone else to watch your kid other than your wife.

John_Oakman · 2024-09-16T14:30:39+00:00

The materialistic hedonists cannot comprehend the non-materialistic sources of motivation & purpose, similarly how the morally virtuous cannot comprehend materialistic sources of motivation.

The sacrifices and suffering are the rewards.

Bitter_Glass321 · 2024-09-16T14:33:14+00:00

Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.

Life sends almost everyone to the meat grinder; men aren't the exception.

Why would any man sacrifice himself for a woman that exploits him.

Our society exploits everyone. No one is exempt. Your grocery store exploits you by charging you $5 for a gallon of milk. Your employer exploits you by paying you a fraction of the value they earn from your labor. Your friends, family, and coworkers would probably exploit you if given the chance. No one is safe.

Men should "sacrifice" themselves for the future that they want. An easy life is rare and most of us are not dealt those cards.

If you believe that divorce courts are unfair, don't get married. If you do, demand a prenuptial agreement and hire a good expensive attorney to draft it for you. Plenty of men, including celebrities and other extremely rich men have an entire family with a woman to whom they are not married. If you do not believe in that the institution of marriage is fair to you, don't join it. No one is forcing you to get married to anyone.

If you believe that Western women are selfish, entitled, and too demanding from their partners, go to a different country. Find a woman whose family makes $1,000 a year and lives in abject poverty and buy her affection. Plenty of men and women do it. No one is stopping you.

If you want to say fuck it and live off the grid and refuse to pay taxes, you can do that too. IRS might come knocking though.

The real trouble in the Western world is that men have to compete for women with the government.

How do men need to compete with women for the government when the government refuses to give women basic human rights? Women are still fighting for reproductive rights, they're still fighting gender discrimination in the workplace, they're still fighting pay disparities, they're still fighting a healthcare system that routinely underdiagnoses them. Are men fighting for ANY of the things that women don't have?

Men's issues, as they are today, are primarily caused by other men. Any systemic disparity that Men face such as divorce court proceedings favoring women is by a system that believes women are unable to support themselves and are innately capable of childcare. Marriage and alimony are from a bygone area when women weren't even able to have their own bank accounts without permission from a man. When the only jobs they could perform were the jobs that Men didn't want or couldn't.

Do you think that women own the grocery stores that are price-gouging you? Do you think women own the firms that are grossly underpaying their employees? Do you think that women are always the judge in divorce courts? They're often not.

Once all of these systemic issues are being perpetuated by women, we can talk. Until then, I don't understand the obsession with blaming women for everything men go through.

Every_Pirate_7471 · 2024-09-16T14:21:23+00:00

Here’s the thing about all of this that I would suggest: Peterson is correct that having responsibility and purpose helps us get up in the morning, helps us do our best, makes us feel good about what we’re doing.

It’s true that men today have been dealt a hand that is hard to play. It’s also hard for women. Everyone has to work and earn a wage in order to survive, except for the 5-10% of men and women who are fortunate enough to have a single income household.

The fact of the matter is that women entering the workforce was good for everyone. Women are now economically free to pursue their full potential.

ALL OF THAT BEING SAID, the thing that needs to happen to fix men’s current situation is political action. It’s going to require the cooperation of men and women, and it’s going to require a consensus on how we all want to live. Everyone who works a forty hour a week job should be able to live independently, and every couple deserves to be able to have a family. In America specifically, I believe we absolutely need to enact paid family leave. Ideally, both the mother and the father should be able to take leave, and employers should have and be required to use channels available to arrange for both parents to be able to take time both on and off work, at the discretion of the parents. What that might look like is one parent on the job while one parent works, and they can swap off every month/week. We also need to put more resources into building first time homes that are affordable for the median income owners; that means ~ 350,000 at at 3% interest rates. We’re far away from that in America, and we are going to need a real political movement to fix it.

Unfortunately I think all of that is unlikely when, from a pretty cynical standpoint, one of the biggest divides in American society is between those who want to live the 2 parents and children in the same home lifestyle, and those that don’t.

fundamentally_comfy · 2024-09-16T16:56:02+00:00

Wow, Jordan agrees with the average female poster on here perfectly

flipsidetroll · 2024-09-16T17:44:35+00:00

This way of thinking is very bizarre and it seems very childish to me.

“Society”. You all write like you aren’t society. Like it’s something over there and all men are here. YOU are society. Just as much as anyone else. And if there’s something you don’t like or think is unbalanced, you fight for it or you correct the imbalance. “The real trouble is men have to compete with women”. Ok, so you have to compete. So what? Do you think you wouldn’t have to compete with men? So why is competing with women so different? If you think they have an unfair advantage, then you make sure you are so good, the advantage becomes irrelevant. Do you think doing nothing/being mgtow is how you get rights back or fix disadvantages? Considering how it’s constantly forced down our throats that we are emotional and men are rational and problem solvers, this is the furthest thing from problem solving. You are just saying it’s hard so therefore we won’t try.

So a portion of society says something about men or labels men in a certain way that you don’t like? So fucking what! Does that mean you accept THEIR definition of you, even though you know it’s not true. It’s so bizarre to me that men seem so easily manipulated by other people’s opinions of them. If you know you aren’t expendable, that you contribute and work and do everything legally, and aren’t a rapist and whatever other labels they try throw at you, then why accept them?

Society doesn’t exploit you. The governments do. Stop calling it society like it’s a separate all powerful entity. It’s not. But the government does have laws in place. And if you don’t like those laws, you either get there and change it through being in government or you become activists. The government exploits everyone. It’s how they get money.

The language that you men have been fed is very telling. You are society. You have just as much power to change things you don’t like. Ever consider that the red pill ideology is designed to make you give up? That it’s designed to make you look in the wrong place and feel unwanted and unwilling to fight? That it could be a major part of the propaganda to break down western society? Doesn’t seem far fetched to see how giving up/going mgtow is exactly what “they” want you to do. You’ve all seen the video of that Russian agent explaining how to break down the west. This is exactly part of his methodology. And you are all falling for it.

MotleyCrew1989 · 2024-09-16T18:50:16+00:00

The moment I saw how Jordan Peterson´s daughter turned out, I lost all respect for him as a role model.

His views come from a world that no longer exist, men used to get recognition and sometimes even a partner for their sacrifice, now they are just one cog in a machine. IMO ditching society´s expectations from us is the way to go, at least until we are respected and apreciated again.

MC-Purp · 2024-09-16T15:21:36+00:00

I liked Peterson’s books, “12 rules for life” really helped me personally. I feel like he’s seriously gone off the deep end since then, but I digress.

The thing is, the principles Peterson teaches will take you toward success. If you feel that the success it takes you toward isn’t what you want then there’s nothing further to discuss.

When it comes to women, the basic thing to know, is you will have more success in attracting mates if you are a functioning adult, and attractive. Peterson’s teachings will make you better in both categories.

As far as society goes, it’s up to the individual if they want to opt out. But if you want to participate, you could do worse than Peterson‘s advice. It’s easy to say you don’t want to take part in western society, but to actually opt out you need to go off grid, or move countries. Most westerners don’t truly want this, they want to be comfortable. So opting out, but staying in society will only breed resentment.

Take this as you will

alwaysright12 · 2024-09-16T14:03:14+00:00

The vast majority of men do not end up on a chopping block.

And they're no more exploited than women are

That being said Peterson and his ilk chat shit

MongoBobalossus · 2024-09-16T14:03:01+00:00

How are men “disadvantaged by society”? Divorce court is the only area I can think of where men don’t hold a complete advantage over everybody else.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-09-16T23:59:39+00:00

Men should do what they want, but realize that certain things they want come with certain responsibilities and sacrifices. Same for women. If a man does not want a wife and kids, nobody is forcing him. If a man dreams of having a tradwife and five kids, then he needs to understand and accept what that requires from him.

I think Peterson is beneficial for men who desire the trad lifestyle, since he won’t lie to or coddle men about what they need to do have that. I don’t agree with him on everything, but he is right on that. If you want a women to fulfill her traditional societal role, that means fulfilling yours. However, if you do not believe in traditional values, his message isn’t for you.

FreitasAlan · 2024-09-17T01:07:11+00:00

You sacrifice for yourself, not for women or society. Then you let people join you if you think they deserve. Making sacrifices for yourself has nothing to do with blindly accepting bad deals.

HereForaRefund · 2024-09-17T02:56:59+00:00

Nothing risked, nothing gained, man. If you want to be a nobody, that's fine, but if you want to be remembered, you got a fight coming.

ExcelsiorState718 · 2024-09-17T04:24:36+00:00

Sure opt out go live under a bridge...I'm not opting out I'm opting to have the best life possible.. I like my cars motorcycles my suburban home my midtown penthouse my Big TV,my custom mattress,bed fine dining, My vacation home, my credit line..my yacht when I get another one..My suits and shoe collection my weekly massages,running water, electricity and smelling good..

I'm opting in to the good life 😌 I got a massage earlier today her hands where so soft her naked body was so firm young and pretty she just started college needed some book money I'll never opt out of getting massages from college chicks.

Technical-Minute2140 · 2024-09-17T06:03:02+00:00

I don’t think society discriminated against me for being a guy. Unfair in a few ways sure. But I do believe in opting out completely. I feel like fundamentally the social contract between me and society was broken.

Delifier · 2024-09-17T09:10:51+00:00

Men used to accept the risks, if there were a great potential to gain something on that risk. The potential gains is not there to the same degree anymore.

Kumquat_conniption · 2024-09-17T11:25:28+00:00

Can you show that men are losing more than women in divorce? My sister just got divorced, kids are 50/50 and she pays him child support since she makes more than him. I have known other couples to divorce and since they make about the same, neither pays child support. Why should I believe this is not the norm? Show me something, with stats.

All your other claims seem pretty unfounded but okay, if divorce rates are too high, don't get married. I didn't and I've been with my partner 14 years. If you aren't going to have kids, what's the point? If you are, pick well and make sure you are compatible.

MarauderSlayer44 · 2024-09-17T13:36:46+00:00

Leaving behind a very wrathful and indicting letter before jumping off a building and painting the sidewalk with your guts is a more honorable and appropriate way to go out in this world than whatever you’re fantasizing about. At least make them pretend to care when men blow our brains out.

ThanosSnapsSlimJims · 2024-09-17T18:23:38+00:00

Young men have sacrificed and enduring for too long. We created democracy, and are told that 'we're trash'. The only way to fix society is to give what women what they want, which is to take away all the stuff associated with the 'trash', including infrastructure, the internet, and all modern technology created by men.

nightsofthesunkissed · 2024-09-16T15:33:10+00:00

Are people still seriously listening to this pile of dust?

He's an irrelevant trainwreck of a person himself, who constantly looks to be either on the edge of breaking into floods of tears, some kind of self-combusting rage, or both.

My opinion is that he's projecting his own inner voice about himself, back out onto young men.

He thinks this is what he should do with his life. He wonders why he can't just get on with it, and he likes his soapbox and shouting about what young men should do.

He's a fusty old man who does not have his own shit together himself, and who does not, and never has, truly cared about the plight of young men.

Men (and women, really) need to work to bring about true societal change to improve the lives, health and prospects of our sons. If men want change, they're not going to get it by taking it up the ass. JP's solution is apparently that you should take it and like it - be whipped by society as it stands and integrate. Don't try to change anything. It's a pathetic mindset that will just lead to more misery.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2024-09-16T15:36:24+00:00

Of course you have the “right” to opt out. Is anyone (aside from Jordan Peterson) telling you otherwise? What does opting out mean to you?

MistyMaisel · 2024-09-16T17:24:06+00:00

I mean, given, I haven't looked at the argument Peterson provides, so I'm not really defending his position.

It seems to me that in order to argue for "dropping out" there needs to be evidence this is a valid option. Clearly, it depends on what we mean by valid option, but I would say a valid option would definitionally be something like, "offers a path through the different phases of life that is ethically sound and likely to lead to good (as defined as peace, joy, and harmony) ends".

And when I look at it, I'm not seeing it fit that. We know that people generally, but perhaps scientifically, men especially, need family, purpose, and community recognition in order to not only navigate early and middle age life, but especially old age. The ones that don't have that are not poised to be joyful, peaceful, or harmonious. The just rot plan precludes any opportunity to find these things and rather seems to replace them with pretty shallow options like different forms of sedation and media. And this is to say nothing of the ethics involved in "letting society go to hell", which just on the face of it doesn't sound like a very ethical position, it sounds like an immoral selfish position. It doesn't even sound politically effective, like you're not suggesting men advocate and fight for whatever you deem they don't have, you're suggesting dropping out. If your goal is for men to have a decent path through life and society to take that to heart, sitting down and shutting up and watching Netflix has to be pretty damn near the worst possible suggested solution. Squeaky wheels and grease.

Now, I can see you arguing that men don't get this stuff anyway....but they at least have a chance to. And it's not straight up gambling either, they have a pretty good chance to achieve the desired ends if they work hard and smart. There's at least hope and some reason to believe success would be inevitable. Under the "drop out" plan, there is no hope or chance of success. Just doom and gloom and at best becoming comfortably numb to this?

Like, I wanted to tell you the devil you know beats the devil you don't, but there's no devil you don't here. You are forgoing both the devil you know and the opportunity to find a devil you don't by just fucking off like a teenager who hasn't gotten the recognition he feels his efforts deserve. And being honest, the fact some men would even consider this path, tells me upfront why they're not getting any societal respect or any of the shit they seem to want so badly. Like go leave yourselves out in the cold and pretend this is an honorable death for all I care, but I've studied enough about Spartans to know they wouldn't be doing this shit. Stop trying to put an honorable farce on being a quitter.

But also, do what you want, right. Godspeed and good luck as another denizen of this hell hole would say.

ScreenTricky4257 · 2024-09-16T15:21:34+00:00

One of the reasons that Peterson's message resonates with young men is that he doesn't frame it as, "Serve society because it's your role to do so." Instead he conveys, "Work to become strong for yourself. Incidentally you'll serve society." He doesn't say to seek out women because you have to; he says to seek them out because it's a great adventure.

the_1st_inductionist · 2024-09-16T16:11:53+00:00

Man should exist for himself, not for others. Man shouldn’t sacrifice himself for others, nor sacrifice others to himself. In Western societies, most men have enough freedom to pursue and achieve their happiness. Most men have enough freedom to find and marry a woman worth marrying. Most men have enough freedom to have children with a woman worthy marrying. If you don’t want to legally marry? Fine. You can do the ceremony and important legal aspects without actually going through the legal marriage process.

You have one life, it’s your foot you’re shooting, your suffering you’re causing if you give up on yourself.

Why should men still want to have children and get married if the divorce rate is 50% and the divorce is usually filed by the woman? Isn’t this too great a risk?

You can’t just take a statistic that applies to people in general and apply that to yourself. Let’s say 0.1% of men rape a woman per year. Does that mean you have a 0.1% chance of being a rapist this year? No. That’s completely absurd. If you make good choices, your chance is 0%. If you’re a monster, your chance is 100%. A statistic that applies to people in general doesn’t necessarily apply to you. Your chances of a divorce are very low if you make yourself competent at pursuing romance. Many men who get married do not do this. And divorces can be amicable or acrimonious. Your chances of an acrimonious divorce are even lower.

And studies without understanding the cause are of very limited use. The fact that divorce is usually filed by women in no way means that women are the ones responsible for ruining a marriage.

You’re just using studies mistakenly to harm yourself. And you’re promoting a mistaken use of statistics to harm your fellow man.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2024-09-16T20:54:39+00:00

I've only basically read the headlines here and I'm not too familiar with the specifics of what Jordan Peterson is all about, but from what I gather, I agree with Peterson on the MGTOW phenomenon.

I don't disagree that men get less rewards for their effort in labor and romance than we used to. Women have their own problems with romance but one with men is we have so many fewer options to filter on right off the bat, so it can seem hopeless to even get in the game.

But I still would tell almost any guy who is not asexual/aromantic that it's better to keep doing whatever you can to get in the game, rather than giving up.

It's like with employment. Wages have stagnated in the US for the past decades while inflation has continued all during that time. We're all getting less spending power for our labor. I'd still advise anyone to keep doing what they can to get a job rather than giving up, even if they're getting less than their parents and grandparents got. Giving up guarantees a bleak outcome. You will almost always do at least a little better by trying.

-Kalos · 2024-09-16T23:16:04+00:00

Why does anyone have to participate? Nobody is forcing you to. You don’t have to date, or be social, or hit the gym, or have a job or any other thing society expects of you. But that also means you miss out on the benefits of being a productive member of society. You can’t be dead weight then whine you aren’t living to the same standard of life as those of us who are productive in society. And who the fuck listens to Peterson seriously?

BirdLawOnly · 2024-09-17T01:07:59+00:00

Women never had the option to opt out of a society that discrimates against and outright hates them. Why should men? Are you not privileged enough?

rustlerhuskyjeans · 2024-09-16T14:25:48+00:00

You shouldn’t get married it costs me millions and I have to still pay absolutely insane amount of alimony every month, because at the time of divorce I owned a business making lots of money. She gets half and half valuation of your business.

You should self improve, work on a career you enjoy, and be attractive as you can. Take opportunities at girls interested that you find attractive.

Solondthewookiee · 2024-09-16T15:50:49+00:00

What is your opinion on this?

Not getting the relationship you believe you are entitled to is not discrimination.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2024-09-16T15:07:55+00:00

You can't opt out of society You're part of it as long as you live in it. You can contribute more or less, but you're still involved.

I think the suggestion is that we actually improve society. I don't think he suggested you just continue being exploited.

Throwawaymykicks · 2024-09-16T14:19:51+00:00

Well, history has already shown us what happens when men are pushed to their limits. You can laugh about it, but the consequences are often far-reaching and impossible to ignore. The us capitol incident of 2021 is just a preview …

CatchPhraze · 2024-09-16T18:43:39+00:00

Straight men are discriminated against, that's correct. Toxic masculinity keeps them from accessing mental/healthcare. They are met with more suspicion around public areas with kids.

But....they are still the group who is discriminated against the least. Gay men, have it worse, women have it worse, trans people, way worse.

Sure life isn't perfect for anyone but you don't see those other groups "checking out" and the reason isn't actually discrimination.

It's the erosion of privilege that feels like discrimination. You say it yourself "why should I do x y z if I'm not rewarded." It's not about doing them when you're punished, it's a lack of reward. Nobody else gets a reward for doing those things. But straight men used to, so they're mad about it.

It would be aweful to reward women as prizes for good behaviour, you really got to let that idea go.

wtknight · 2024-09-16T14:41:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

MyUpSeemsDown · 2024-09-16T23:13:42+00:00

Yea, I think he's right, whining won't make the problems in your life go away, blaming the world and hoping the world changes around you won't happen either. You yourself can own up to your problems and make it go away.

Also what exactly am I sacrificing here? My time to get a better education that will heighten my chance of more capable, successful life? Holding down a job to feed myself and buy myself new pc, guitars and shit? How am I a sacrificial lamb of society? Lol

Cactaceaemomma · 2024-09-17T00:01:35+00:00

Women sacrifice for society through motherhood. Men sacrifice by being providers. If you don't want to do that or are unable to, then you should become useful in other ways. Be a writer, an artist, a warrior, a mystic. Contribute something great, to the greatest of your ability. Barring that, there's always hermitude. Oh trust me, sometimes I feel so useless that I'd like to go live in a cave in peace and just survive alone but speaking as someone who's tried that I can confidently say that Peterson is right anc that we all NEED to be useful to the tribe. It's a human need.

Jordan Peterson tells young men to sacrifice themselves and endure. Young men should suck it up. It is my belief that men have the right to opt out of a society that discriminates against them.

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