If there is no obligations and nobody owes anyone anything. We should go fully, not picking and choosing. Men particularly, Need to simply be selfish and self serving, alot more.

pico-sooooo · 2026-06-16T18:27:33+00:00

I generally dismiss these kinds of takes. It’s too “law of the jungle” for me, dawg.

I would say that men should care about women’s problems AND women should care about men’s.

I mean call me crazy, I know it’s a hot take.

DMmeClownPics · 2026-06-16T20:30:06+00:00

Reproductive rights affect men too. Unless you want to be paying child support for a kid that neither one of y’all wanted in the first place. Or having women farrrrrr less likely to engage in sex outside of a long term committed relationship. It’s no coincidence that the R v W decision coincided with the sexual revolution.

hellounknown2 · 2026-06-16T19:27:04+00:00

I think you’re conflating two very different ideas. Nobody being entitled to something is not the same thing as nobody having moral obligations toward anyone else.

Nobody owes me a relationship, sex, attraction, or friendship because those things involve personal autonomy and consent. But that doesn’t mean people should stop caring about loneliness, discrimination, violence, poverty, or other problems that affect human beings.

Your examples also aren’t really symmetrical. A woman choosing not to date a man is a personal decision about her own body and life. Caring whether women are assaulted, harassed, or denied equal rights is about whether people should be harmed by others. Those are very different issues.

Where I do think you have a point is that men’s problems are often met with less empathy. Male loneliness, mental health struggles, and social isolation are sometimes dismissed with “nobody owes you anything” in a way that would be considered insensitive in many other contexts. But the logical conclusion isn’t that men should stop caring about women. It’s that we should take men’s issues more seriously (and that does not mean women should be expected to date or sleep with men they are not attracted to) while continuing to care about everyone else’s as well.

“Nobody owes you a relationship” and “people should care about each other’s wellbeing” are perfectly compatible beliefs …

ta06012022 · 2026-06-16T18:33:08+00:00

Society constantly expects men to care about the "bad outcomes" women face. Whether it’s physical safety, systemic inequalities, emotional support, or just the general day-to-day struggles of women, men are routinely shamed if they do not display active empathy

In the US, people (men and women) are legally entitled to things like physical safety and equality. We care when people break the law, so we enforce it. The alternative is lawlessness, which most people don't want.

Men are not legally entitled to sleep with a woman they want or any woman at all for that matter.

emotional support, or just the general day-to-day struggles of women

I'm not really sure what this means, but I'm pretty sure I'm not actively empathetic to these things. Everyone has emotions and day-to-day struggles. That's part of the human existence.

Lemon_gecko · 2026-06-16T18:34:20+00:00

"Society constantly expects men to care about the "bad outcomes" women face. Whether it’s physical safety, systemic inequalities, emotional support, or just the general day-to-day struggles of women, men are routinely shamed if they do not display active empathy, act as allies, or step into their historical roles as protectors and providers."

"physical safety" - that's mostly about community than expectation of an every man to enforce.
"systemic inequalities" - yeah, systemic, and the pressure is on systems, not on specific indivicual man.
"emotional support" - no one demands it from men. It's assumed in relationships/friendship because that's what it is, but there is no pressure on individual man to emotionally support women.
"step into historical roles of protectors and providers" - which is when they are in relationship and not in every one. They don't have to, they can choose women, who don't want that. But there is no societal pressure on an individual man to provide for a woman just because.

Anyway, this post reads like "hey, if you think that i can't take your money, fair, it's your money. But why do i feel pressure to care about your health?? i should be free to hit you anytime i want! we're individualistic, are we not??? This is what you wanted"

And to give you benefit of the doubt, since you don't like how it is now, you see this as unfair, then what do you propose people would do to solve men's loneliness? Be specific. Imagine i'm an ambassador of women who don't want to be those evil individualists you speak of.

Expensive_Lion1807 · 2026-06-16T21:09:41+00:00

Would you care about children’s safety or elderly or disabled people outside of their families or would they need to provide sexual services to be deserving too?

duncan-the-wonderdog · 2026-06-16T18:34:52+00:00

Why do the problems of other human beings only matter or not matter if you can or cannot sleep with them?

Can someone explain this logic to me?

Ronniebbb · 2026-06-16T18:34:31+00:00

So the argument is men should be as dangerous as extremists say they are .... Because women are not giving them what they feel they deserve?

NiaMiaBia · 2026-06-16T18:25:22+00:00

“Society constantly expects men to care about the "bad outcomes" women face. Whether it’s physical safety, systemic inequalities, emotional support, or just the general day-to-day struggles of women, men are routinely shamed if they do not display active empathy, act as allies, or step into their historical roles as protectors and providers.”

———> Society does not do this. We have a rapist/pedo for president. Y’all are NOT “acting like allies” or anything of the sort 🤦🏽‍♀️ another thing, historically y’all have not been protectors. I’ll be glad when this myth dies.

chamomilecloud · 2026-06-16T18:41:38+00:00

Men already do not have moral or social obligations to “women” as a demographic. Men famously care only about his family (and sometimes close friends), with no regard to society whatsoever, and that’s why they generally oppose things like welfare and social assistance.

When men care about female causes, they are caring specifically about women that are part of his tribe, like his wife, daughters, sisters, mother, cousins, etc. It’s not and has never been about “society” or “women” at large.

Men ARE already self-serving within dating, and that’s why you can even find some crusty uggo man who has played and cheated other crusty and uggo women. Men do not owe women commitment and so they are not pure little angels within dating either.

That’s why this whole post is a false premise. Men are already exactly as you describe.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2026-06-16T20:33:23+00:00

From a strictly individualistic standpoint we already know the results

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Meanwhile those that do things for others find themselves in communities and social standing within the communities they belong to. From friends to family to neighborhoods to like minded organizations.

PositionStandard6089 · 2026-06-16T19:08:44+00:00

"We are told that we must dismantle systems that harm women"

no, you are being asked to. women are asking you to care about our safety and rights. you don't have to. plenty of men don't.

a person not being good at dating just doesn't carry the same weight as personal safety and rights. and it shouldn't.

Terrible_Mixture_759 · 2026-06-16T18:33:44+00:00

The idea that things will never get better is the first step towards fascoid behaviour as you've demonstrated here, but I think you've at least touched on a point that women are doing it somewhat unconsciously. Men are instead consciously fascoid.

Downtown_Cat_1745 · 2026-06-16T18:53:59+00:00

Men already don’t care about women’s problems. You’re here throwing a temper tantrum because nobody wants to date you, but what have you ever done to make women’s lives better?

rosephase · 2026-06-16T18:25:11+00:00

I think it's funny that you think this isn't already happening. And it hasn't helped men not be whiny at all about not being owed sex. You understand that the reason men are told these things is because they are not doing them. Not because they are.

Men who need to be told that have never been the men who are working to support women.

Kaleidoscopetide · 2026-06-16T18:56:12+00:00

People owe each other all sorts of things. Lots of women care deeply about the “bad outcomes” men face: draft, war, homelessness, mass incarceration, gang violence, drug overdose, father’s rights violations, etc. This is because we, as a species, tend to care when bad things happen to fellow humans. That doesn’t involve an obligation to pretend to like or love someone and have sex with them and get married to them or whatever. And who would even want that?

zhrimpypimp · 2026-06-16T19:03:49+00:00

I agree. Men who are upset they are being told that they are not owed sex or relationships should drop out and go down a self destructive path.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2026-06-16T19:34:47+00:00

This is the argument of somebody who absolutely believes that women have a moral obligation to give romantic attention to men. If you truly did not believe that women have this obligation, then you would not tie other human behaviors to the same philosophy. Treating someone with respect is a separate matter from giving someone romantic attention. Standing up for people who are being mistreated is a positive social good separate from the topic of romantic attention. The irony of this entire argument is that you are still lumping in romantic attention with every other thing that you consider a moral obligation, thus proving that you absolutely think that women are obligated.

PuzzleheadedRow9896 · 2026-06-16T18:54:13+00:00

If we go by laws of the jungle, that's perfectly fine. Women will simply have to begin having the men that make us unsafe done away with.

And lest you think we would fail in that, it's doubtful as we would be able to rely on the help of the men we select to favor.

That's what unelected men always seem to forget when they say this stuff 🙄

Otjahe · 2026-06-16T19:52:14+00:00

It still comes down to choice. Nobody forces men do be this way or do these things. You simply do if you care and think it’s a good thing. It doesn’t have to be completely symmetrical to be valuable to someone. Nobody at my job owes me anything, yet I’ll give colleagues snacks periodically or give them compliments and so on. I think it’s a nice thing to do, I feel good doing it, so I do it.

weenieandthebutt · 2026-06-17T23:06:33+00:00

You cannot demand hyper-individualism when it comes to men's struggles but demand collectivist empathy when it comes to women's struggles.

Beautiful.

KayRay1994 · 2026-06-16T19:09:19+00:00

Is this the ultimate nice guy mask off post?

“Oh, I’m not entitled to sex or a relationship. YOU GET NOTHING! NO SUPPORT FOR YOUR CAUSES, NO ADVOCACY, NOTHING!”

Tongue in cheek commentary aside, are you seriously running this whole post under the premise that if you’re not entitled to relationships, then therefore women aren’t entitled to systemic equality? Is this seriously your core argument? In the most basic terms, this is a false equivalency. If you wanna go deeper, you’ve shown that you’re unable to make distinctions between individuals connecting and systemic issues, if you wanna rip out a third layer, you’ve just shown us that you believe women’s rights is something to be negotiated and not inherent.

No matter which way you slice it, this post is absolutely worthy of character judgments on you

Present-Afternoon-70 · 2026-06-16T19:00:18+00:00

You're confusing systemic obligations with personal choices. Nobody owes anyone a date, relationship, attraction, or sex. That's an individual decision. Women's safety, voting rights, discrimination, and similar issues aren't discussed because women are owed personal affection. They're discussed because they involve systemic harms affecting millions of people regardless of who they date.

A woman rejecting a man is not equivalent to discrimination, violence, or unequal treatment under institutions.

The reason people talk about women's issues collectively is because those issues are collective in nature. Dating is personal.

You're trying to apply the logic of personal autonomy to systemic problems and then acting as though you've found a contradiction. There isn't one.

ratsareniceanimals · 2026-06-16T18:51:28+00:00

Alright, so round up the boys and give them their new marching orders.

Accomplished_Pack527 · 2026-06-16T18:57:25+00:00

I'm confused. Aren't they already self-serving?

Why are we acting like one gender is being noble and selfless here? Men/women already can and do what they want. And women/men can choose how they wish to respond. No obligations on either side.

bluestjuice · 2026-06-16T19:08:52+00:00

It's not really true that there are no obligations and nobody owes anyone anything whatsoever in a society. Aside from the most committed libertarians, everyone believes in a social contract of one sort or another, and recognizes and accepts mutual duties of safety, security, dignity, and care to one another. These responsibilities are codified in law as well as appearing as social customs and mores. There are, of course, lots of differences in exactly what that looks like in practice, and lots of ink spilled to discuss what mutual duties would be best, but 'nobody owes anyone anything' is an extremely fringe opinion.

It is true that strangers don't owe other strangers personal, romantic, or sexual access. That lack of obligation has a very specific scope, and it doesn't follow logically that one should use it to justify lack of other obligations of different types.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2026-06-16T21:18:54+00:00

So you’re ok caring about the plight of other people as long as your dick is wet?

As ever, it all comes down to a willing vagina

DavidSwimmer19 · 2026-06-17T15:03:22+00:00

The reality is this: If the situation were reversed, we'd be seeing mass movements to "correct" the situation, and they'd have the support of the government, big businesses, etc.

If women had very little/zero access to sex or a romantic relationship with men (and I really do mean little to zero, like once every 5 years max, or none), men would be shamed enmasse into providing that for women.

Men are shamed into providing security, tax dollars, food and shelter for women, why not add relationships to the mix too? It's how feminism functions. The entire definition of the "village" is for men to work and provide for families they have no connection with and no power in.

>How can we make this about women, for women, and at the expense of men?

fucksiclepizza · 2026-06-16T19:48:58+00:00

Its not about owing anything, its about being a decent human being.

Proper_Card_5520 · 2026-06-17T06:27:34+00:00

Actually good opinion but i would like it take even few stapes ahead.

If we are going to full individuality then men should not even care about others men. Why do I care if a girl did a false rape case on you ? If i support her she might deat me so for my fucking benifits i would support the girl. I don't own ANYONE ANYTHING after all which also includes other men not just a woman.

I would not give a fuck about any woman shit unless it affects me or my sister badly but if their is a benifit to support this moments why not ? I mean as an individual why should I give a fuck about others men. If being a simp or pick me would get me gf I would do with heartbeat. Why be angry for others men ?

I kinda believe in individuality way before for few years at this point so i can understand what are you trying to say but a result of this can lead to a outcome were lonely people like u and me can be left alone forever and we won't even get a little help we get now.

Again individualty is a double edge sword.

Turbulent-Company373 · 2026-06-17T15:47:31+00:00

It's really bad when they love those that hate them and hate those that love them. Like choosing to be or remain with those who harm them the most.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2026-06-16T18:28:17+00:00

It’s usually unwise to ignore what the people you want something from think, if you can’t force them to give it to you

NotAllTheCake · 2026-06-16T19:04:08+00:00

You cannot demand hyper-individualism when it comes to men's struggles but demand collectivist empathy when it comes to women's struggles.

Yes, we can. Because this is a bad-faith argument comparing two separate situations that have nothing to do with each other, in order to manipulate women into dating men.

Women having choice where they can't be forced into relationships anymore is a function of women's independence. Men dismantling the patriarchy and displaying the bare minimum of basic human decency is a function of the social compact, where everyone benefits socially and economically when we co-operate. Women aren't obligated to date men because your civility isn't owed to women specifically, your civility is owed to society in general.

If there is no obligation in dating and relationships, men have no logical or moral obligation to uphold their end of the contract in the realms of safety,

Nope. If men don't agree with the social compact, they are welcome to leave society and start their own commune.

Free_Inspection_8990 · 2026-06-17T00:25:18+00:00

Without even scrolling this thread I can see people picking OP apart based on “in discussions of modern dating.” But I see an angle with this regarding general empathy. I think in general men who lament their lives either romantically or in lack of emotional support all come from a similar place in which no real empathy gets extended to them. So in that case I can see jaded men turning the other cheek to the issues that women face.

Saying that though. The “women dont owe men.” Argument which is presented as “men are overwhelmingly in power so all issues they face is their own doing,” and “we had the sexual revolution despite men.” Is conveniently ahistorical considering the amount of effort and emotional labour that prominent men went through to ensure a higher quality of life for women is kinda disheartening. So as long as OP was meaning these things, I agree. But this is a very charitable read

Toe2ToeBirdLaw · 2026-06-16T21:09:19+00:00

this entire post could have been summed up with "if i can't get laid, i don't think women deserve rights because i don't understand how societies work"

GridReXX · 2026-06-16T21:32:38+00:00

Is your issue women not wanting men to fuck her body unless she also wants to fuck?

I just want to confirm that’s your biggest issue.

antariusz · 2026-06-17T00:30:46+00:00

This take is a lot cleaner and easier to understand when you simply say "enjoy the decline"

pie-mart · 2026-06-16T19:57:24+00:00

If you wanna live in a community you owe to the community. If i give taxes, so do my neighbors

If I want to live without the responsibility of living amongst humans, then I better leave and live in the middle of a wild forest all by myself.

We don't owe sex or relationships for nothing

Meaning if my neighbor is a mooch, I don't owe them. Or just because I am a resident, doesn't mean those who choose how much we pay can demand i pay them an extreme amount of money.

With that being said there is a level of expectations men have on women. At least from my perspective. I am expected to risk everything to have sex with no safety (commitment to the relationship and me as a person) give emotional support, pay half of all the bills, take care of all the hojsehold chores and look ridiculously good while soing it. Whereas a lot of men i dated simply have a job and take enough showers. They do not contribute to being supportive or caring to me, nor do they do any chores. They simply go to work, then come home and expect me to fuck him and give him dinner and clean the house despite me having my own job. And if his day is hard, I have to listen to him and show empathy and care. If my day was hard? Oh, thats just drama though.

It gets frustrating feeling like we are giving so much and yet all we get is dick pics from men with 0 emotional connection, closeness, or support yet expected to always give that to men. I constantly feel like I am expected to give a man a whole sense of community. Be the community for him. But he is not giving that back to me. That sense of community. I am expected to happily serve him it all...

And it hurts as a woman. Because now that I decided I don't want to date those men. Or men at all, sometimes, they get mad and act like when I reject them off the street that I am denying them some god given right to me saying yes to them.

Like me not wanting sex with them is forcing them in loneliness, when I am just not having a good day, month, or year. And they act like my rejection is the weight of the world on their shoulders, so much so that they are willing to hurt me due to that rejection. Punish me for it. Demonize me for it.

I can't say yes, because if I do. I have to say yes to every man. If I say no, he thinks I am evil for rejecting him. Too high of standards. Too bitchy or petty. That I took away his right to sleep with me or date me, that him hurting me is seen as a reasonable response.

I am expected to say yes to every man, but to each individual man, I am supposed to say no to every man except for him

Tylikcat · 2026-06-16T23:29:11+00:00

So what in men's romantic struggles is something that people are doing to men?

I suppose bullying, maybe? (And I'm strongly anti-bullying. And anti-harassment.) But most of what I hear about is things that people aren't doing to men - mostly, having sex with them. And to a lesser extent having relationships with them, but at least to go by the emphasis I see here, it's largely about the sex.

As it pretty routine here, you're trying to equate women ignoring men, or women not having sex with men, to men actively doing harm to women.

Of course most people do not treat these things the same. They aren't remotely similar.

LillthOfBabylon · 2026-06-16T21:46:23+00:00

Fellas, alot of you are already selfish. You just lie to yourselves that you're not. Problem is, why should anyone put up with you?

Society constantly expects men to care about the "bad outcomes" women face.

The irony is that I bet most guys here HATE man hating feminists....all while proving those women's points and making them look more sensible.

You cannot demand hyper-individualism when it comes to men's struggles but demand collectivist empathy when it comes to women's struggles.

Because look at what you're complaining about.

"Someone please touch my penis"

You're not talking about how SA against men are laughed at.
You're not talking about how men should be more encouraged to get professional help for mental health problems.
You're not talking about how the government will do things that disproportionately hurt innocent men.
You're not talking about how the main victims of male violence are men.

You're complaining about not being rewarded with pussy.

Meanwhile, women are concerned about being the victims of violence.

New-Western-4819 · 2026-06-17T02:36:24+00:00

you literally don't have to do any of the crap you're whining about. you also don't need to write long diatribes about why you shouldn't have to do those things that nobody forced you to do in the first place.

ArtisticLime9769 · 2026-06-16T19:50:42+00:00

No one enlited to anything in their life, but if you want to be a decent human being or be in relationship - you have responsibilities and obliged to behave certain way.

Noone owe you anything, people care about others because they want to.

I don't even know how debate it, because it's so idiotic.

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Lost_Reaction_5489 · 2026-06-16T21:51:31+00:00

Men already don't do the things you listed which is why more and more women are becoming single every day. It's like you all don't get it. Lol. This is generalized, but many of the struggling men out there sound like absolute burdens. Who would want that? And then to further prove that women don't want that you go straight to harming women when you don't get what you want. Again this you is general.

jorts-enthusiast · 2026-06-16T22:50:28+00:00

So the basis of your argument is that people should be awful to one another because you aren’t getting any?

Consistent-Fly-8427 · 2026-06-17T02:16:51+00:00

It’s honestly crazy how often this same talking point keeps being used. I as a woman would do anything in my power to protect someone being harmed. Regardless of the person’s gender and age. Yet for men, “protection” is something men use as a privilege or a reward, rather than simple common decency. I wouldn’t demand something in return, nor do I expect the same from anyone else. Because it’s who I am morally. Men like you will never evolve.

baller696969balls · 2026-06-16T22:55:22+00:00

Male experiences in dating really, really suck. I am not going to deny this. But do you think that just because you can’t get laid, it’s a good excuse to be generally shitty to other people? We’re not asking that you attend like feminist rally’s or participate in women’s rights causes, that is definitely unnecessary and unpaid labour.

But, overall, why shouldn’t you care about the safety of other people? Man or woman, if you see someone in danger, would you not do anything simply because you can’t get laid?

And what, you’d like to be friends with someone who feels the need to regularly insult women based on their beliefs? You wouldn’t call out gossipy and bitchy behaviour like that simply because you can’t get laid?

As humans, we actually do owe each other empathy. Nothing more, nothing less. “Male apathy” is a moral failing, because male apathy is the consistent cause of so many crimes. You cannot compare and say that female apathy is what causes crimes, because it doesn’t. I don’t believe every apathetic male is going to directly cause a crime, but from the way you describe it, every apathetic male would certainly feel comfortable being a bystander. Is that really okay with you?

Santa-Teresa · 2026-06-16T23:25:41+00:00

Giving an average, even if awkward man a chance to prove himself to be a good partner through a few dates is not exactly the same or worse than providing a roof to homeless people, again, unless you have sky high expectations.

OkBug9012 · 2026-06-17T09:18:42+00:00

I think the argument mixes up not being entitled to something with having no reason to care. People help others all the time without owing them a date or relationship. A healthy society needs both boundaries and basic empathy.

Santa-Teresa · 2026-06-17T13:10:10+00:00

Women and liberal society do support policies which violate the rights of choice of others by supporting gender and racial quotas, since women are provenly more likely to be absent, which makes them objectively initially less attractive for employers. Which means that yes, employers are forced to give up some of their freedom and consent to provide opportunities for women who may not get it otherwise.

Is this a bad thing? Absolutely not, but then complaining about how interfering with consent is bad is hypocritical. Because yes, women do prefer status and charisma, and not having a romantic partner is a serious contributor to male suicide. Therefore, I think claiming that men who struggle with dating don’t deserve social attention is the same as claiming that women are not entitled to have a chance to have careers because they’re unattractive for employers for a good reason.

toad-wrangler · 2026-06-16T22:31:44+00:00

You are conflating individual personal preference of lifestyle issues with issues that women as a whole group face.

Every society is a bit different. In the U.S., we have prioritized societal reform concerning group issues. If the majority of a group experiences the issue, the issue gets attention. If a small percentage of a group faces an issue, the issue get bumped to the bottom of the list of things than need to be addressed. Most men are not chronically sexless, thus sexlessness is not a "men's issue", because the majority of men don't have the issue. Most women still deal with sexism in the while at work, thus it is a "woman's issue" because the majority of women experience it. The later is affecting more people and is going to be a higher priority.

brentifil · 2026-06-17T13:52:45+00:00

Dude. This whole post screams everything wrong with your situation. Just because nobody cares you're not getting laid doesn't mean women deserve oppression and hardship. Forcing a woman to fuck you is only perpetuating woman's issues.

Lysa_Bell · 2026-06-16T21:38:27+00:00

How does "more selfish" actually looks like in this context for men? I was looking at the comments and you keep talking about voting, movements and protection. What does all of that actually look like in action?

ShiniTheM · 2026-06-17T07:10:54+00:00

Doesn't work like that. Women are more valuable and thus hold more power. You can pretend both sexes are equal on the dating market, but that's simply not the case.

Weekly_Magician_7476 · 2026-06-18T04:46:03+00:00

Women's issues are legal and systemic. Laws can be changed to give women bodily autonomy. Men can be educated about consent or shamed/arrested for predatory behavior. These are more straightforward solutions to women's problems.

But how are women supposed to help men with loneliness/sexlessness? Give out free pussy to their guy friends in a dry spell? Marry men they don't actually like just so he's not alone? I'm just not sure what women can do for men on this front. What are the solutions from a male point of view?

TheDONKnight · 2026-06-18T06:01:10+00:00

This take is fire

Title	If there is no obligations and nobody owes anyone anything. We should go fully, not picking and choosing. Men particularly, Need to simply be selfish and self serving, alot more.
Author	Powerful-Sherbert990
Upvotes	131
Comments	492
Date	June 16, 2026 6:20 PM UTC (1 month ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1u7llpk/if_there_is_no_obligations_and_nobody_owes_anyone/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-there-is-no-obligations-and-nobody-owes-anyone.1582987 https://theredarchive.com/post/1582987

Comments

"Someone please touch my penis"

"Someone please touch my penis"