What do men mean when they say they want sympathy for their dating issues?

FreierSteinkopf · 2021-04-27T18:26:42+00:00

I don't think it's an issue that can be resolved. Some men are not able to get sex or a girlfriend and it won't change. Sympathy in terms of listening to them or socializing in general would probably help some but when the only thing you need is someone who is attracted to you and it's not going to happen the problem is not solvable.

trail22 · 2021-04-27T19:41:27+00:00

Women will defend themselves by shaming men for saying simply what they observe. What they experience.

A man saying women care way too much about height, isn't saying a women should date people who are shorter then her. IT's not negotiating attraction. Its saying literally women care a lot about height!

And it's often women saying they are made to feel liek they should give these men a chance. Not simply admitting that yeah; I dont want to date a guy who is short, not in my race, has no life, or has no friends.

Or more annoying saying I see men who do fine who are short; while knowing full well they themselves would not date a man shorter then them, and know many women believe the same.

Which is fine. Women for some reason are afraid to say, I do not date men shorter then me on the internet. Or "I am not interested in dating a man who isn't the same race as me; so I can see how men who are 'such and such' will have a much harder time trying to get a date from someone they are attracted to.

Also basic rule in life. Don't give advice if someone isnt asking for any, and if you do realize they arent likely accept it happily.

Estimator1313 · 2021-04-27T20:10:47+00:00

I don’t know if I would want sympathy.

Personally, I’m a 30-year old Aspie KHHV with no friends or prior relationships. I was a special needs student who had a personal aide and accommodations who was stuck from K-12 with being perceived as a “retard” (despite the fact that I was an honor roll student who actually managed to get to AP level in history (which even that itself was a fight to get to). As such, I was ostracized and a frequent target for bullying, especially when my aide was no longer present (i.e. - recess, after school, etc.) Who would want to hang out, let alone date, the “school retard?”

So I guess rather than sympathy, I would prefer an opportunity. And when I say opportunity, I mean at actual love and romance, not simply sex. If I just wanted sex and nothing more, I’m sure I could find a sex worker but I’m the type of guy who wants the emotional aspect of having sex with someone who I love/care/trust and reciprocates; I’m not looking for a pump and dump.

Unfortunately, I’m so socially crippled and anxious, combined with my bad motor skills, I’m pretty sure that if even given the chance, I’d somehow find a way to mess things up, albeit unintentionally.

angels-fan · 2021-04-28T01:18:04+00:00

How about we start by not using "Lol ok incel" or "you can tell he's never touched a woman" as the de facto insult whenever any man disagrees with any woman?

2021-04-27T20:51:07+00:00

I'm sure they want to be heard and supported and validated. It's very human.

yeet20feet · 2021-04-27T20:42:36+00:00

i think it literally means not making fun of them for it like receiving an unprovoked “lol ok virgin”

mindsanitizer · 2021-04-27T19:02:41+00:00

Just literally say "hey man, that sucks. It sounds like dating IS often a bit harder for men on average than it is for women" when you're in an anonymous chat room. Or if you're really down with the cause you could even say that in real life.

That's it. That's the ask.

The-Wizard-of-Oz- · 2021-04-27T18:59:49+00:00

Like not gaslighting them with statements that are supposed to make them feel better like "just be yourself, I'm sure you'll find someone" instead of "you're 5'4 and weigh 120 pounds can't make me laugh - I would never date you eww and I'm pretty sure no other girl will either, but I wanna avoid the social confrontation and make myself look good"

The problem with this otherwise well intentioned approach is that some men will believe the former statements.

redditthrowaway1478 · 2021-04-27T19:58:29+00:00

Sympathy is different from pity

Men hate being pitied

I think empathy is more accurate. Its not that we want you to necessarily do anything about our issues - honestly there not much you really can do

Just try to recognize the unique challenges men face just as you would for women, but understand that it won't really make sense from a females perspective. This is really hard to do for each sex ive noticed...

Sad_Top1743 · 2021-04-27T18:56:20+00:00

I think most of us are perplexed about how much sympathy women receive.

I recognize that dating can be hard in some ways for women but its not any easier for men.

cvslengthbucketlist · 2021-04-27T19:31:00+00:00

When men talk about "sympathy" for their dating issues, it's not a demand for "sexual socialism." It's more equality of opportunity than equality of outcome.

The "giving lonely/unattractive men a chance" line doesn't mean lowering your standards and automatically letting them date you out of some self-sacrificial act of compassion just to see how it goes. It means giving them the same chance as a guy you'd actually be attracted to to ask you out politely in the first place without jumping to the "creep" or "harassment" assumption, because as long as men are expected to make the first move and women benefit from this then it makes no sense to punish one guy for the same behavior that would seem innocuous to you when done by another.

It's a reaction to the increasingly popular but fundamentally contradictory notion held by many women that men in general should have the confidence to initiate an interaction, while at the same time punishing certain men specifically for having the audacity to advocate on their own behalf and then claiming that that kind of proactiveness is an attractive quality for you in a man.

xFallacyx69 · 2021-04-27T19:31:51+00:00

I mean tons of women mean well... but a lot of men are jaded because women’s advice is absolute trash.

We’ve all heard “just be nice” or “just shower and dress nice” about a million times by the time we hit 18 yrs old. It makes women feel good to pretend that they aren’t attracted to indifference, but it doesn’t make it any less false.

In practice, we won’t really believe that women have empathy until the average dude can go on a date and feel the excitement from the chick about simply getting to know him better.

We’re results based.

The unfortunate fact is that many men, myself included, have had more success with women by doing the opposite of what women say they want.

I personally have used that to just disregard any dating advice women give (cuz they suck at giving advice to men)... some men have used that knowledge to blame women for their utter lack of success in the dating world...

Also, I never give advice to women on dating because the truth would just put a target on my back. I have no problem if women see this as unsympathetic because I know I’m not actually unsympathetic to the actual woes of dating for women. Why would I be?

trueanonymousperson · 2021-04-28T01:06:58+00:00

I personally just want women to stand in our shoes and understand the male experience of dating in general (the soul-crushing experience on dating apps of the average man, constant rejections, the expectation to make a move etc) which I presume is quite different to the female experience

I think any self-respecting man has sympathy itself as the very last thing on his list of things he wants from anyone.

TravelerSF · 2021-04-27T19:04:13+00:00

Sorry to hear that people have responded that way, that's really hurtful. But as for what we, or at least I, would like to see:

Understanding that some men live in a completely different reality than most women. That they might have no chance for relationships, intimacy, bodily affirmation or emotional support. Acknowledging that these are real deficiencies that affect their quality of life and wellbeing.

Steyrox · 2021-04-28T02:11:59+00:00

There are two conflicting messages beamed towards young men. The first is the feminist request where they want men to behave in a way which is "safe" for women. You swap feminism with religion if that is more applicable to your part of the world. Things like greed (money focus), sexual behaviour (hitting on women etc.) and muscular/violent capacity is looked on as dangerous. To be a "good man" in these environments means to be safe, which translates to being a nice doormat. Usually its actually women (moms, teachers, female friends etc) that guide young men towards these ideals. Out of love and a sense of purpose men follow along.

Then there is the behaviour of women, where they actually choose to pursue, date and marry the exact men they say their own offspring, students and best friends should not be.

To me, empathy/sympathy thing would be that women should want to grow men who are attractive to other women and not just "safe". This would mean they encourage behaviours in boys and men that can be scary to themselves, but good for the man they are looking at. In practice this means the men should be encouraged to earn a lot of money, be guided to high status jobs, build a physique and being sexually forward enough to ask women out.

Its incredibly sad when you realize this in your 30s like I did. I will not become a father because I listened too much to what women were saying. It really feels like my life has been a lie and that I have been the pet of these women.

RunsWlthScissors · 2021-04-28T04:02:40+00:00

As a dude I don’t get it. I wouldn’t respond because with responses like that, the person isn’t truly sincere. No one wants an invite to a pity party. If you think your weight’s an issue, cut weight, been doing it for sports since high school. Literally a caloric numbers game. Height? Make up for it with personality. My buddy who is 5’4” is massively successful with women. Socially awkward? Force yourself to be uncomfortable, and adapt till you do it well.

The bigger issue, is people who come at you like that don’t want solutions. If it’s not them it’s you, and if it’s not either it’s society. They want to be handed what they want, and that’s not how life works. There are times and places for empathy, but if people treat you like that IGNORE THEM.

Giving them a response allows them to validate their own weird internal beliefs, depriving them of that woe is me/us attention might actually make them look in the mirror. If not, fuck it that’s not your responsibility.

Pilling_it · 2021-04-27T18:18:56+00:00

They're whining. I don't want sympathy at all from women. What I wish they'd have told me rather than to be nice, work on personality and all that cliché crap is to hit the gym.

But hey, I could have wasted more time on that, so silver lining.

alialahmad1997 · 2021-04-27T20:16:28+00:00

I don't think any one wants asympathy date Just not a rude rejection

wtknight · 2021-04-27T18:26:57+00:00

Men want women who they think are in their league to be attracted to them. They don’t like it when the women who they think are in their league are going after guys obviously out of their league. But, if a woman who they thought was in their league does manage to snag a guy who is higher value than he is into a long-term relationship, then this is usually a eye-opener to the guy that he needs to either improve or to lower his standards.

The problem is when average women are having casual sex with higher value guys when that’s the type of woman who is his attraction match and who he would be happy to have a relationship with. This is the kind of thing that frustrates men.

RedPillDad · 2021-04-27T19:30:12+00:00

Men don't get sympathy. Other than their moms, the world doesn't care about the struggles men face. A man needs to get his ass to the winner's circle because that's where the women hang out.

Cupcakelover1985 · 2021-04-27T21:10:28+00:00

They want sympathy sex. However they don’t want it to be too obvious that’s it’s done out of pity.

bowserfire73 · 2021-04-27T19:51:33+00:00

A chance to show their personality at the very least.

swaggyquack · 2021-04-27T23:21:27+00:00

Well it’s because women are the problem in their eyes

Kaisha001 · 2021-04-27T19:51:28+00:00

But when further pressed the responses I’ve gotten are all along the lines of “if your not giving lonely/unattractive men a chance then you aren’t really sympathetic & part of the problem”

Not at all. I've seen those thread and participated them. There was valid response after valid response. Deep, in-depth, and interesting comments.

And all, of course, ignored for the 1 idiot troll yelling 'OMG Y U NO SLEEP WITH ME!!?'. Who probably isn't even an incel, just a troll pretending to be to rile up the BPs or a /FDS reject LARPING.

So men what is it you want when you ask for more sympathy?

This has to be nearly the 6th time I've personally seen this kind of thread go down, and I know you were in a few of them. So what makes this time different? You're just going to ignore what you don't want to hear, make a few strawman comments, and circle jerk with the other BPs about how bad men are when the is proof is 1 or 2 raging morons taken out of context.

Kaisha001 · 2021-04-27T19:16:57+00:00

I think there are men who genuinely are trying to be understood and have conversations that can improve this issues.

And there are others, who usually associate themselves with group 1 but that actually have deeper rooted issues that keep them from entering relationships/having sex. They are usually the ones that are unrealistic, that will never accept anything a woman says & don’t actually care to receive empathy - even if you do... They will find a way to vilify you because they’ve spent so much time resenting women.

You just need to know which type you are speaking to.

Ihateregistering6 · 2021-04-27T21:00:19+00:00

From the sounds of it, these guys just want you to pity-fuck them. Just ignore those guys.

As for the difficulties, just acknowledge these (almost) universal differences in dating:

-The expectation is almost always on the man to make the first move. He is the one who is expected to walk across the bar and put himself out there and hope he doesn't have to deal with being rejected, which is even more fun when it's in front of your friends so he gets to have an audience when you tell him "no". Granted online dating has changed some of this, but even there the expectation is that he has to make the first move.

-If you are an average looking woman (or even somewhat below average looking) and struggling with dating, you can still, at the end of the day, find a guy to have sex with you in about 5 minutes. Men have no such luxury, they don't even get to feel sexually desired.

And that's pretty much it. We all have our own problems, but there are certain dating problems that are much, much more prevalent when it comes to men than women.

Zippo-Cat · 2021-04-27T18:45:00+00:00

Men don't say that

Males say that, but you shouldn't be listenint to them

Appropriate_Cold8032 · 2021-04-27T20:14:57+00:00

I think it's like the barrier of anytime they talk to someone the expectations of the "other" is eventually they will get over it or get a relationship etc. But when that lack becomes part of a identity of struggle and you can't justify through your ego that I'm just not doing this right now or "I just haven't found the right person" and you find a female friend and she could take those problems away I think it's it's unhealthy but I mean you have the capacity. It feels like you're begging when you get sympathy because you're looking for ideal resolution. The ultimate goal of someone sexless and lonely is to not be.

TheRabbitTunnel · 2021-04-27T20:39:37+00:00

But when further pressed the responses I’ve gotten are all along the lines of “if your not giving lonely/unattractive men a chance then you aren’t really sympathetic & part of the problem”

Lmao, yeah right. A small minority of men think that sympathy means you need to fuck them.

Offers of advice are rebuffed and any sympathetic advice given is thrown back in your face.

Probably because your advice is complete nonsense. "Just be yourself", "treat her like a queen", "youll find the right one" etc.

So men what is it you want when you ask for more sympathy?

A rational man would want you to acknowledge the unfair advantage that women have in the dating world, and give some real advice. "Dont treat her too nice, its unattractive", "dont text back fast, it makes you look needy", "hit the gym" etc.

Barely-moral · 2021-04-27T20:43:16+00:00

For men sympathy equals help.

So stop telling the wrong advice/lies and start telling good advice/the truth. That is all you can do.

Aldabruzzo · 2021-04-27T18:34:03+00:00

It means we want women to at least try to understand, using their brains, what men's dating issues are.

It means we would like some empathy. "Gee, yeah, I can kind of see how that would be difficult."

Every time this question is asked and men say "maybe some empathy" we get excoriated and raked over the coals. "WELL HELL!! What good is us telling you "we understand" and "we get it" going to do for you?? Why do you need that? STOP BEING SUCH PUSSIES!!"

I dunno. Maybe it would make things easier to discuss here. Maybe it would make men and women see each other as more human. I know. Kumbaya shit and all that. Whatever. It's just a thought.

We are not asking you to soothe our boo boos and kiss it and make it all better. We are not asking you to touch our pee pees. We are not demanding that you have sex with us if you don't want to. We are not asking you to fix it. We're not asking for pity or help or a bleeding heart.

We are asking for you to at least TRY to comprehend it with your brains. We are asking for you to at least try to put yourself in our shoes and see it from our perspective. But even these two things are too much to ask.

unkle_Rico1 · 2021-04-27T19:56:51+00:00

I have some ugly ass friends who have procreated so it’s hard for me to have sympathy for these guys. You know what my ugly friends have in common? They don’t take no shit and they don’t give a fuck what you think. That’s much more attractive than whining about your shortcomings. So while I get that it’s hard out there for a lot of men you aren’t going to get anything more than pity and most women aren’t going to pity fuck you. Get harder; hope this helps.

Appropriate_Cold8032 · 2021-04-27T22:32:15+00:00

Kinda like a pirate.

couldbemage · 2021-04-27T23:32:16+00:00

Plenty just don't want their problems dismissed. Just acknowledged that shit sucks.

That's part of why I'm here. Some guys need help.

gammaJinx · 2021-04-27T23:51:45+00:00

Sympathy doesn't mean open your legs it just means to acknowledge that men have problems too. Because a lot of women and actually people in general are oblivious to the notion that other people got problems to. Like for example when women complain they aren't any good men on tinder, yet they get a hundred matches a week and will totally brush it off when a guy complains that they get 1 a week if their lucky.

ChemicalPackage7212 · 2021-04-27T23:52:12+00:00

A practical step that women could implement is to not go on dates with men they are certain they don't plan on dating. Some women do this just for free food/validation and this type of behavior seems to be encouraged a lot these days on social media.

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-04-28T00:52:54+00:00

Do you open your legs to everyone you date? That's the implication of your argument.

simplyelegant87 · 2021-04-28T01:04:13+00:00

Dating someone isn’t charity. We all have preferences and it’s not always fair seeming but giving someone a chance is breeding grounds for resentment and unhappiness. I’m fine with sharing dating woes but it doesn’t extend further than that.

Naus1987 · 2021-04-28T02:37:20+00:00

I actually enjoy being friend zoned, because women friends are great at giving advice when it comes to finding legitimate partners.

—

My only real issue with modern dating is that both sides lament being single, and it feels like standards and entitlements are too high in a lot of situations.

Let me be straight, having standards is good for happiness, but it’s important to compare compromise to being single. And not compromise to a unicorn.

Obviously anyone would take a unicorn over a compromise. But the reality is most people end up single, and not with unicorns.

I just wish people compared compromise to the reality of their situation, and not judge people by a fantasy standard.

Ultimately, I just want people to legitimately be happy with their choices. I’m picky enough that I’m basically going my own way, and I accept that choice.

But I feel like a lot are just miserable people. And sometimes I do feel that women may appear less sympathetic towards men, if they’re still clinging to a fantasy.

Guys don’t want to hear (hold out forever), they want to know if some women are willing to lower their standards, like they have lowered theirs—because they’ve come to the conclusion that compromise is better than being alone. They’re looking for a shared experience. This sucks, let’s do it together.

—again, I’d rather go my own way than settle, but I’m also content with my choice. Being in a subpar relationship would make me more miserable than being alone. And that’s with almost 20 years of relationship experience, and cohabiting with an ex for 10. I’m really enjoying my free time!

NoMarriageNoKids · 2021-04-28T06:03:20+00:00

I've never heard that. But, I don't hang in circles with men who can't get women. I wouldn't date some homely fat chick just because she was lonely. So, I don't see why you'd do the same from the other direction. Dating is a game and those that play it well do well. Those that don't, don't.

OXOzymandias · 2021-04-28T07:06:55+00:00

Most of these dudes dont even live in the same area as you, so i am doubting that they truly asking you to sleep with them...feels like someone who is posturing tbh

CentralAdmin · 2021-04-28T07:16:18+00:00

What men mean is they want women to acknowledge their privilege here. We live in a world where two healthy adults who (allegedly) have love to give but won't date each other because one can't and the other will not. With all the single people around you would think loneliness wouldn't be at an all time high...

Sex and dating is much easier for women. Women don't always see the work men must put in to be attractive so their insulting language regarding men's sexuality, the entitled behaviour and being quietly okay (or vocally so) of men's suffering isn't going to convince men of women's position.

Ladies, you have so many advantages in dating that even when one of your own went undercover as a man she declared being a woman was more of a privilege.

She even mentions how hard it is to approach women as well as having the complete wrong idea about what it means to be a man. Women so often assume the worst of men and their sexuality. Men inadvertently hide it because they are ashamed. If you ever go to a gay night club and see male sexuality in its rawest form, where men are free to express it with others who are open, you will notice how much effort they put into celebrating it and enjoying it.

Straight men must very often watch from afar women enjoying their sexuality even when it comes at a cost to their own. She may dress in ways that make her feel sexy for work. He will very likely not and, due to having testosterone pumping through his veins, dare not enjoy being a man with a sexuality no matter how revealing she dresses. This is not advocating for Shariah style covering up but for women to be willing to be considerate.

How often isn't a boy jerking off treated as a disgusting joke or a threat to girls and women whereas women discovering their sexuality is treated as something beautiful or as something to be celebrated?

Compare how men have traditionally treated female sexuality. Men have written poems, created art and live in a world of desire for the female form, including femininity. Women would never write poems about the shape of her partner's scrotum or how much pleasure his body gives her. A masculine man, a desired man is one who labours.

Once women get that men must earn love and it very often ends in failure, all the while having an active sex drive, they may begin to understand that men are human too. They desire love and sex. They are unhappily willing to take part in a world that treats them as disposable and will begrudgingly take on burdens for access to love and sex. But the reason they are checking out is because so few are willing to consider the issues they face.

Your question has layers of meaning that actually need unpacking such as what we owe each other. If men have bought into ideology and practical ways to give women the space, freedom and opportunities they desired, is it asking too much for women to do the same?

Start unpacking that while looking at what each gender values about the other first. For example, men granted women equal access to work and education. Women got the money they wanted without needing men. Did men get the sex they wanted without needing women?

Platinirism · 2021-04-28T10:59:56+00:00

Men‘s dating problems stem mostly from women rejecting them, thus men think women’s high standards are the issue.

Automatically, they think YOU are part of the problem, regardless of any sympathy you try to give them. Your sympathy means nothing when it’s believed that you’re the cause of the issue.

For an extreme example, imagine a billionaire talking to a homeless man and saying “you’re right, it sucks for poor people”, then getting into a helicopter and flying away.

ni406nja · 2021-04-28T11:31:47+00:00

I thnk it's about appreciating that men have a lot more pressure in dating than women, they have to make the first move, deal with rejection, they are expected to pay on the first date, he is expected to keep her entertained, if he is too needy he's a horny creep if he's too passive he's shy etc.. Men want you to see his struggles as greater than yours so that he feels respected, responsible and in control. That's because men love feeling useful, responsible for something they care and feeling acomplished. It all can be summed up into: We like when women understand us

115ron · 2021-04-28T13:07:43+00:00

It means they should stop shaming less successful men and virgins. As the "more empathetic gender", they should also understand that these guys will never be loved for who they are. Introverted and socially anxious men have to play a role and fake their entire identity, just for a chance at finding a relationship. For me, the idea of being loved in condition to how I perform in a hierarchy and how well I can fake being someone else is nauseating. Even being objectified and loved only for my body would feel more genuine than that.

"if your not giving lonely/unattractive men a chance then you aren’t really sympathetic & part of the problem"

I don't think women forcing themselves to pity-fuck lonely men would be a solution to anything. Tbh I don't think there's a solution to this problem at all, it's just evolution fucking us over. The best women can do is not making it even worse for us by shaming and spewing hate.

wtknight · 2021-04-27T18:54:03+00:00

[removed]

Appropriate_Cold8032 · 2021-04-27T20:36:57+00:00

So I mean I guess we can argue intellectual imperative over biological imperative companionship, and what it does on physiological nature has proven results. Like a hug. Like a kiss. It feels divisive to be like. "Well why should I have to do anything for you?" Because I think therefore I am. What kinda egoic mental gymnastics under social darwinism create some form of determinism that makes someone seem less in the first place? And once you as a "woman" start being honest. You see it's a lot of times your own shitty internalized problems that cause you to view it in that light.

basicbiddy · 2021-04-27T19:38:24+00:00

They mean they want you to hop on their cock effort free. Any response other then that will get you ire as not being real empathy or sympathy or whatever dumb shit they’re on today.

RandomUser8467 · 2021-04-27T23:59:05+00:00

“What do men mean when they say they want sympathy for their dating issues?”

They mean they feel entitled to your time, attention, emotional support, and body, but will offer little to nothing to offer in return. In return for your attention, they will not pay attention to you. In return for your emotional support, they will not provide you with emotional support. In return for access to sex with you, they will not be attentive enough to help you reach orgasm.

They resent that other women aren’t giving this to them either, but are not going to work on their ability to be a good partner in order to improve their chances.

Appropriate_Cold8032 · 2021-04-27T21:04:37+00:00

At least 5 months out last year I was working out a tent. Also got some mental stuff going on. It's hard to get places and keep everything well organized. I also meditate and the such

Appropriate_Cold8032 · 2021-04-27T21:07:00+00:00

If I'm coming off pretentious I promise it took a very long time and a lot of suffering to understand the world around me to the small degree I mentioned self taught and I suppose that is accurate under one lens and not another. I have had quite a few teachers in my life. And all of them have had good qualities.

slavicslothe · 2021-04-27T21:56:28+00:00

It’s identity politics.

The only thing that can make that crowd happy is success without earning it.

SylvestorTalone · 2021-04-27T22:04:43+00:00

For my part, I'd like it openly acknowledged that the sexual marketplace is a great deal more savage and unforgiving for men than it is for women.

Western societies, and many of the people on this sub, basically treat it as impossible a priori that any aspect of the male experience could be worse than it's female equivalent.

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-04-27T18:20:56+00:00

It's just hypocrisy all over the place.

They want sex as charity, BUT also want the women fucking them be attracted to them.

They want sex without a relationship, BUT also want the women to care about and value them.

BarestBranch · 2021-04-27T18:25:05+00:00

They want you to not get mad at their misogyny on account of them being so sad and lonely and lacking in sex.

PronKing10 · 2021-04-27T18:45:57+00:00

It's easy to develop a victim complex, since you're your own main character, you know all of your struggles so it's easy to think 'hey world, look at all this shit I've been through and no one feels sorry for me". They see life as easy for other people (this subreddit seems to focus on good looking people), so in comparison they wonder why they don't get sympathy. When the truth is, everyone goes through shit, some people just don't make theirs public, and a lot of the ones who do get disregarded.

Meanwhile you suggest to people on here to get a haircut and invest in themselves and you're only met with arguments lol. It's easier to be a victim rather than do the work and take responsibility

Guapscotch · 2021-04-27T20:18:29+00:00

They don’t want to put in the work required to be a more attractive man. So they absolve themselves of the responsibility and shift the blame to women. It’s a defense / coping mechanism.

I know this because i used to be one of those men. I’m trying to be better now and improve myself for my future significant other and also myself.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-04-27T20:33:32+00:00

It means that they want women to both understand the dating issues that men face, and actually sympathize with them, which I think might be asking a little more than most women are capable of.

Most women will not understand men's dating issues because most will not have to experience them to the same degree, or at all, and therefore will not likely be able to empathize with them at all, which is a prerequisite for actual sympathy to be given. Saying "I'm sorry you're going through that" isn't really sympathy.

EGOtyst · 2021-04-27T20:17:30+00:00

It means they want blowjobs.

DrBoby · 2021-04-27T22:38:45+00:00

They are victimizing themselves.

It's the victimization era. Like women, and all minorities, everyone want to be recognized as suffering from an inequality, and once recognized they want advantages.

There are endless ways to give advantages to people: tax breaks, free or subsidized stuff related to the inequality (clothes, haircuts, prostitutes, etc...), etc...

ace1244 · 2021-04-27T23:06:02+00:00

Maybe if a woman sees her loving brother go through these dating issues she will feel his frustration because she loves him. And then she will have an epiphany. But other than that I just don’t see it.

AConcernedParent · 2021-04-27T18:53:24+00:00

Men whining outwardly about their luck with women is a sign they haven’t looked inwards to do the work required to improve their luck. I know waaaaaay too many men who live like they’re in their mom’s basement and literally cannot fathom why they’re alone. These same men do not know how to cook rice or do laundry. For fuck’s sake pick a day to grow up.

SaBahRub · 2021-04-27T18:16:52+00:00

They want to be able to openly bitch about women

And their dry dicks

And sex will always be accepted

801735 · 2021-04-27T18:40:43+00:00

What do men mean when they say they want sympathy for their dating issues?

"Everything. No, no, not THAT. Everything else but that. No, not that either. FFS! Why can't you just get it already!!!!" lmao

no_value_male · 2021-04-27T20:19:08+00:00

There is no need for false sympathy. Women are incapable of caring for low value males anyway.

MoreAlfa · 2021-04-27T18:43:58+00:00

What do men mean when they say they want sympathy for their dating issues?

Those "men" mean that the world is difficult and they just aren't equipped to deal with it's difficulties so they complain instead of going out and actually making effective change.

mandathor · 2021-04-27T20:20:02+00:00

I don't want sympathy, that would make me feel even wimpier. You can sympathise, but it doesnt really help. Its also reminds the guy of how sympathetic and nice women think they are. The contrast between their socialism/peace rethoric and their sexual judgement is quite stark, yet many women strut around with their morals about acceptance while judging men harshly sexually, but don't really recognise that dissonance, that maybe they are not so nice themselves as they think they are; quite annoying. So I guess, it would be best if you as a woman would calm down with the moralising and love/peace type rethoric. Also maybe lower your standards a tad bit.

yungthrowaway97 · 2021-04-27T21:41:33+00:00

Nothing. That is just lonely guys that want sex. Guys created this problem and only we can fix it. Either male thirst needs to be solved or they need new outlets. As a women there is nothing you can do, just like guys have no sympathy for fat girls. You were born in the best time to be a woman. No reason to not take advantage of it.

Edit: I think it is more guys just want the women delusional to how much power they have in the dating space to understand. The reason they keep ranting is when a new woman comes and denies it they go up in arms again. Basically women should acknowledge that fact and there would be less resentment.

screamingIn2_theVoid · 2021-04-27T20:13:16+00:00

HAHAHAHAHA this is life on easy mode, fuck a bunch of sympathy!

CheesyCrustSuperstar · 2021-04-27T23:33:22+00:00

Dick sucking. We have trouble understanding that a friend wouldn't suck our dick, because we'd go down on a female friend who really needed it.

It's a gender difference.

JB8511R · 2021-04-27T23:35:01+00:00

I can’t speak for other people, but what I mean is stop the gaslighting. Stop denying. Stop acting like women are perfect angels and men who have dating issues are just awful human beings. You don’t know us. You don’t know our plight, or you do and refuse to admit it. It’s mean. Cruel. Degrading. Dehumanising.

I want to think it’s all ‘innocently’ fuelled by the Apex Fallacy, but part me really thinks that’s it’s just maliciousness by most of you.

Classicjammer · 2021-04-27T21:52:17+00:00

I think what most mean is that they want you to mentally understand how hard it is for the average man to get a woman when all the average women (and above) only want the top echelon of men. Even better would be to call out other women when they make nasty comments about these issues or even tell other women that “maybe, just maybe your standards are a little too high if you want a good relationship”.

ogres_r_like_onions · 2021-04-28T02:30:18+00:00

Ideally at LEAST a handjob and some light dirty talk. Actions speak louder than words. If you’re single and female you have no excuse for not doing something to relieve the crushing sexual poverty suffered by so many men.

Silence is violence.

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mechanical_elves · 2021-04-27T20:57:54+00:00

Why don't I ever see these pleas for sympathy for men's dating issues. Who are these people, are they even on PPD?

roboderp16 · 2021-04-27T23:21:47+00:00

You do know this sub isn't exactly the place you'll get an answer. The main thing is not to reach out to random men, or loose aquatintense, but for the men you actually know.

If you're talking about men on dating sites, it's a moot point. IRL you're left with the scene of hook-up culture, where on average, it's men who are left out more.

We live in a time where 25% of men are virgins till they're 30, not all are in the dating scene, not all want sex. But the minority of whome participate in the hookup culture (that thank God is actually dying from what I've seen) are the ones not looking for emotional investment.

We want sympathy for the ones who aren't serial daters, but they're also the ones who haven't really polished off themselves, don't offer half assed comfort's and say they'll find someone eventually, offer genuine advice. Not just only to the attractive ones. If they rebuff you, I guess you chose badly who to offer advice

Also comfort and pity aren't sympathy. Don't give advice or say thing's you genuinely wouldn't believe in, don't say things that are quite obviously half hearted or at worst pretensious and cynical. Personally I left the dating scene to work on myself And the best advice I got was from female friends who actually told me the harsh truths, my personality was to scatterbrained, I couldn't hold conversations and I lacked confidence in myself. They offered advice on how to be better socially outside of conversations between friends. Men can make changes when they're told what's wrong by a trusted person, not someone just there to gain brownie points

WilliamWyattD · 2021-04-27T23:49:01+00:00

On an individual level, the most important thing for women to do is to not equate superior sexual leverage with overall superiority or being of higher value as a human being. This is really tough to do. But it is important for the woman herself if she wants to mature as a human being. It's also important for a woman to develop a clear-eyed yet unjaded understanding of how sexual attraction tends to work. That way, she can interact with men, but keep an eye open for men who become overly smitten with her when she has no chance of returning their affections. She can then maturely manage that relationship, often by giving those men space. Basically, don't truly friendzone guys or abuse the power that superior sexual leverage can give you.

On an intellectual level, women need to understand that we all have a responsibility for ensuring that the mating dynamic in society is balanced and functional. This entails having critical thinking. Can the genders be unbalanced on a culture-wide level? If so, what can be done? What is the goal of a culture with respect to matching up men and women? Is widespread monogamy a goal? If so, how can it be fairly achieved? Is there a possibility that too many men could be falling behind or unable to pair up monogamously? If so, what can be done? Is society encouraging women to have excessively high standards, or the wrong standards, for relationships? If so, again, what can be done? Etc.

Of course, all of the above applies to men as well; but men will typically find themselves in a somewhat different position with respect to the above issues. Nevertheless, kindness and an open, critical mind when it comes to social issues are always important for every human being.

Fluffy_Treacle · 2021-04-28T00:01:47+00:00

You are born thinking you can step forward and connect with people. It’s natural for people to think that if they take that step forward, it can work out. I don’t think they expect you to like them if you naturally don’t, rather, they expect life to work out for them and it feels like a slap in the face when you show them it doesn’t, like handing someone a mirror and saying, ‘Look at yourself, what did you expect.’

I guess men want to connect to women and women don’t notice or even care that weak/undesirable men exist.

throwaway7773243245 · 2021-04-28T01:00:21+00:00

I think sympathy generally could lead to some semi solutions like legalizing prostitution or aid for plastic surgeries. The problem is (imo) that most people think that a guy who is not deformed in the medical sense can get a girlfriend and dates, but in reality can't be further from truth.

unrestricted_domain · 2021-04-28T01:18:53+00:00

Personally think validation would go a long way for these folks

gopher_glitz · 2021-04-28T02:53:08+00:00

Stop using people and pretending to be interested in them just to boost your own self esteem.

everythingelseisfull · 2021-04-28T03:34:12+00:00

I don't think anyone owes anyone pity sex. However, there is a huge difference in what people can get away with saying to less attractive men, compared to less attractive women. When a less attractive woman complains about problems in her sex life, no one tells her that having sex with her would be an act of charity. Some people luck out in the great looks lotto. The difference in how we treat men and women tells us everything we need to know about how far we still need to go in modernising gender roles.

kissofspiderwoman · 2021-04-28T04:31:41+00:00

Really? Are you sure your not straw manning men?

I don’t know know any men either think empathy and sympathy means sleeping with unattractive men. Even on here, I see that only about 5 percent of the time.

teramelosiscool · 2021-04-28T05:09:17+00:00

"i only want sympathy in the form of you crawling into bed with me"

-fall out boy, dance dance

as a big titted goth girl i'd expect you understand

if you're not willing and they get upset, so be it. move on. if a homeless person asks you for some sympathy then gets mad when you won't let them move in with you, what, are you gonna go complain to the internet and ask why they got mad and insist you do in fact have sympathy for them despite rejecting their request? they're homeless, they're bitter and angry. yes, they're probably being unreasonable, but it's unlikely you're gonna be able to make them see it that way. you just gotta move on

" Dance, this is the way they'd love
If they knew how misery loved me "

LaCaipirinha · 2021-04-28T14:28:41+00:00

Nothing could be more irrelevant to me than sympathy from women. If I want to moan about the dating scene, I'll do it with my bros.

From women I only ask one thing: please gain some perspective. The fact that seemingly endless men on dating apps and in your DMs and possibly irl show you sexual interest does not make you high value - it simply indicates you are a physically non-repulsive member of the human race with a vagina.

Retaining men is how a woman shows value. Any goal is a hole to a huge % of guys, but not any woman is a potential long term partner.

You'll understand this when the wall hits, but by then it's too late. If you can at least comprehend this around your mid-20s and put some effort into establishing a meaningful connection with a man instead of endless hookups and partying then you might be able to escape that fate.

MisterJose · 2021-04-28T14:52:05+00:00

So here's what men deal with:

On one side, society is telling them they are dangerous, aggressive creeps who's sexuality is scary and unwanted, and being shown examples about how men who aggressively pursue women are a problem, and how they will be forever labeled the most disgusting of all humans if they do that.

Men, on one level, want to do what women want, and what women ask of them, because we want to be worthy. We want to be inspired by that image of the feminine that strikes us when we see you. We want to earn that. Maybe if self-aware, a man can send that image of you crashing down to Earth, but that seems to kill so much of what's powerful and profound about his attraction.

Bet, when a guy listens to what he's being told, and tries never to be that horrible guy he saw endless damnation of, he meets with failure. Why? He was being nice and decent, behaving himself, as society told him to be, why is it not working? And if a man asks that question on the internet, he's like to be told that he is actually a worse human for trying to be a 'nice guy' and thinking women would go for that. It was dishonest and manipulative.

Perhaps that guy wanders into some land of wokeness, that champions diversity and feelings, and think "oh, people here about caring, and damn do I need some of that. I'll explain my despair to them." But when he does, he discovers anything but compassion. Again, he actually gets treated worse than the womanizer dude he was told never to be, who is probably off having sex with the women he wishes he was. No one is ever treated worse in our society than a male 'loser'.

Also, the ideas of academic feminism are one thing, but internet feminism often attracts people who need to believe in ideals of female strength, because they themselves are weak or injured. So, they happily welcome a chance to bully a weak man who has wandered into their midst, not fully conscious of the fact that their disgust at his weakness completely undermines a big chunk of their belief system.

So, the man feels like he can't win. He's screwed any way he goes. He's continually told he's not an okay human, and that women will never care about him. If he goes on a dating site, he has to endure tons of attempts and failures, women not understanding his needs, all while trying to find success while not being able to believe in himself and find confidence in who he is, because he's constantly being told his basic impulses aren't okay. But he's also not to be a complain-y whiner, because that's a major turn off, and also because obviously men don't have real problems, right?

This is an oft-quoted excerpt from a book written by a lesbian woman who lived for a time as a man:

The women I met wanted a man to be confident. They wanted in many ways to defer to him. I could feel that on many dates, the unspoken desire to be held up and led, whether in conversation or even in physical space, and at times it made me feel quite small in my costume, like a young man must feel when he's just coming of age and he's suddenly expected to carry the world under his arm like a football. And some women did find Ned too small physically to be attractive. They wanted someone, they said, who could pin them to the bed or, as one woman put it, "someone who can drive the bus". Ned was too willowy for that. I began to understand from the inside why Robert Crumb draws his women so big and his diminutive self begging at their heels or riding them around the room.

Yet as much as these women wanted a take-control man, at the same time they wanted a man who was vulnerable to them, a man who would show his colours and open his doors, someone expressive, intuitive, attuned. This I was in spades, and I always got points for it. But I began to feel very sympathetic toward heterosexual men - the pressure to be a world-bestriding colossus is an immensely heavy burden to bear, and trying to be a sensitive new age guy at the same time is pretty well impossible. Expectation, expectation, expectation was the leitmotif of Ned's dating life.

and also:

If you have never been sexually attracted to women, you will never quite understand the monumental power of female sexuality, except by proxy or in theory, nor will you quite know the immense advantage it gives us over men. Dating women as a man was a lesson in female power, and it made me, of all things, into a momentary misogynist, which I suppose was the best indicator that my experiment had worked. I saw my own sex from the other side, and I disliked women irrationally for a while because of it. I disliked their superiority, their accusatory smiles, their entitlement to choose or dash me with a fingertip, an execution so lazy, so effortless, it made the defeats and even the successes unbearably humiliating. Typical male power feels by comparison like a blunt instrument, its salvos and field strategies laughably remedial next to the damage a woman can do with a single cutting word: no.

Sex is most powerful in the mind, and to men, in the mind, women have a lot of power, not only to arouse, but to give worth, self-worth, meaning, initiation, sustenance, everything. Seeing this more clearly through my experience, I began to wonder whether the most extreme men resort to violence with women because they think that's all they have, their one pathetic advantage over all she seems to hold above them. I make no excuses for this. There are none. But as a man I felt vaguely attuned to this mind-set or its possibility. I did not inhabit it, but I thought I saw how rejection might get twisted beyond recognition in the mind of a discarded male where misogyny and ultimately rape may be a vicious attempt to take what cannot be taken because it has not been bestowed.

cloudsongs_ · 2021-04-28T15:32:16+00:00

I feel bad for anyone who themselves feel bad about being single. I don't feel bad for men who make other men and women feel horrible too because he can't contain the toxicity of his thoughts.

Title	What do men mean when they say they want sympathy for their dating issues?
Author	Spacechichen_1990
Upvotes	142
Comments	490
Date	April 27, 2021 4:16 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/mzs2l8/what_do_men_mean_when_they_say_they_want_sympathy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-do-men-mean-when-they-say-they-want-sympathy.760730 https://theredarchive.com/post/760730

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