Daily Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2022-12-01T19:00:11+00:00

This daily thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc... in...

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I think women and males perceive sacrificing in a relationship completely different. To males, sacrificing is like taking the kids to the park for the day to give his wife a break. To males, sacrificing is limiting his gaming time so he can actually be a present parent.

To women, sacrificing is giving up everything you loved before you got married and had kids to make sure your husband and kids are comfortable and taken care of.

For a middle class male, very little changes after he gets married and has kids. It’s okay for males to pursue their goals even if that means that he will be away from his kids.

I was watching the World Cup and they were talking about this one player. They were discussing how he hasn’t seen his family in two years because he’s playing for some low level soccer league in Japan making peanuts. Could you imagine that being a mother? A mother leaving her family for years to chase a dream that doesn’t even pay her that well? She would be crucified.

Society allows males to chase their unpaid dreams while having young kids. Whenever I see stories about a female athlete having a child it always comes with a bunch of people asking “well who’s going to take care of that child?” “You should retire now to take care of your family”. This never happens with males.

This thought process is why males think a male sacrificing the same amount as a mother is “cucked”.

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To be clear you could be correct in that socialization and how we measure things like IQ is biased against women but I assume you want to tweak it enough to where it is equal whether through targeted programs or changing the test parameters.

Society has already been targeting women for higher level education for a while and it shows whether that is college graduation levels far outpacing men and even income for women in their 20s beating men but for what? I am all for equality and if women want to pursue a career and education I will not stand in their way or promote policies that prevent them as long as they are fair and don't take away from men succeding which many do. With that being said to me women wanting to be top-level performers does not make sense to me from a min-maxing strategy point of view. To be a top-level performer you typically need to be psychopathic to some degree or you need to high an unusually high IQ if we are talking about business and research respectively. Men have more psychopaths as seen among CEOs and more high-level researchers if we look at just the research world or science and math Nobel prize winners as well.

Sorry for the paragraph so I will try to be my point clear here. If men are more psychopathic than women and have a higher IQ at top levels that would mean that women competing against them are on average going to perform slightly worse unless they are also psychopathic or have a high IQ.

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Me personally? No. The only time I've been disgusted with a guy coming on to me was when a guy I worked with, 10+ years my senior and married, came on to me at work . I do avoid guys who have shown interest in me if I know that I'm not interested in them, though. I feel like if I don't, I will unintentionally lead them on.

I get that that happens, but that's never been a pattern for me or my friends. Usually, I see people get together with friends' friends or new friends, not long term friends.

Personally, if I'm single I generally make up my mind early on if someone I get to know is a potential partner or not (do I like them as people, are they attractive to me, single, do they have or want pets I'm allergic to, do they seem like the kind of person who will want kids in the future etc) and if they don't meet my criteria I just consider them friends and treat them as such. If I've known someone a long time and they never said or did anything that would convey interest, I mentally put them in the "friend" box even if I could potentially be interested in them. I will treat them as friends, because I assume that guys who are interested show interest. If I'm single and a friend would ask me on a date, I might be open to that, or I might shut it down because e.g. "I can't date you, because I'm too allergic to your cat to ever sleep over at your place". Then we both have our answer. If a cat-owning friend initiates hanging out or chatting more to getting to know me better, I wouldn't think anything of it because to me it's obvious that we wouldn't be compatible. And that's how I've accidentally "friendzoned" guys or unintentionally lead them on.

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What I wanted, and found in my current partner, is someone who shares my nerdy interests and makes me feel respected, valued and special to them. They can't have pets because I'm awfully allergic, and can't want biological kids with me, because I can't have them. I realize that that's a bloody tall order, and that most men who show superficial interest won't be willing to make those compromises. So realising that my dating pool is small as shit, I decided that everything else that's nice to have but not necessary, I can live without. My current partner caught my eye on a dating app because he has long hair, and as an old metalhead I have a major weak spot for guys with long hair. Then I read his profile and realised that we have two major interests in common, and he was looking for something serious. He actually wrote to me first, but I would have if he hadn't. While chatting, I asked him if he had any pets, and he said no. After our first date, I told him that I can't have kids and we shouldn't continue seeing each other if that's a dealbreaker for him. We're now living together and about to get engaged.

Girls want to maintain friendships as well. We value our friends. In my experience, we especially value male friends who genuinely have no sexual interest in us, because it gives us a peak into the male mind. We don't want to be friends with a guy who likes us, and unintentionally lead him on, though. We don't want our boyfriend's to doubt our commitment by being friends with guys who have liked us in the past, either.

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I don't know if anyone is actually telling you that, or if its the common regression of PPD understanding of general language that often leaves out entire sentences and commonsense context that most people understand.

If people want to date, I do believe that the should put themselves out into society and organically meet people naturally without the primary goal being to date and fuck. However, if they meet someone that they DO want to date or fuck, they should make their interest clear in a socially acceptable way and ask the person that they're interested in out.

It's healthier to seek out human interactions with zero expectations. That's how friendships and community bonds are formed. Interacting with people with zero expectations doesn't mean to not express ones interest if romantic or sexual attraction develops.

If someone is romantically or sexually attracted to someone immediately, they shouldn't pretend to initiate friendship in order to manipulate a person into dating them or fucking them without their knowledge or consent.

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Here’s the thing though: if you’re a woman who’s already hot— like you’ve got your style down pat, you take good care of your body, you’re throughly looksmaxxed— you’re only ever going to lose SMV with age. And I think anyone who’s already investing in their partner, and being able to overlook their down-and-out situation, is already pretty high in RMV. Also, given the fact that many men don’t really care how much their partners earn as long as they themselves are making enough, the “growth” of say, advancing in your career or making more money, isn’t really a plus to most men. (They might feel neutral or emasculated by it.)

So it seems to me that hot, put-together women should never give down-and-out men a chance, because their potential for “growing together” isn’t matched.

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1) Yes, dating men that are "below your league" doesn't mean he will treat you any better. Because everyone is just a person deep down, and while desperation / uneven "leagues" might cause some people to do a bit more early in the relationship, at the end of the day, people will revert to who they really are. And there are very similar amounts of shitty people all across the desirability gradient.

However, if you are going into this relationship thinking you lowered your standards or dated below you, you are already not respecting him. It's very possible that over time he senses this, and it's normal to lose respect for a partner that is looking down on you.

You're trying to get automatic respect from the guy because you are more desirable. But respect isn't something you trade lowering your standards for, respect is gained by doing respectable things and being a respectable person. It's actually impossible to get it any other way, unless people are faking it.

2) Again, this is correct, and it might be true that some men do leave simply because they can do better and just don't care about you. That would take some seriously cold hearted guy with very little compassion though.

Still, you shouldn't be trying to build up a person trying to gain some reward at the end. If you really did like this guy the way he was, and he just left after he got better, then he's a terrible person. But if you went into it trying / expecting to create someone else, your own motivations are not that innocent. The guy is not a tree that you water and then harvest from.

Both of the above have the issue of creating a covert agreement that the other party probably didn't agree to. It feels like you might have not went into it because you liked the person, but because of what you think you can get from them based on the contract. It feel wrong for the same reasons that men thinking they are owed sex because they dated down / provided for / did favors for the woman.

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The glass ceiling isn't really discussed as much at this point; I haven't heard it discussed at all since I was a kid. I don't know about other countries, but at the point the only thing that is discussed as far as workplace "oppression" is the pay gape, which is really primarily a gap that exists because women decide to mother. It's their choice, so it's not inherently oppression imo. Nothing is forcing them to be mothers and leave the workforce/surrender opportunity. Glass ceiling was more of an 80s thing, I believe. We're almost half a century away that time, now.

I do think trends are worth discussing, but there's people here and all over the internet who seem to believe there is an active push to oppress men, whereas what it's more-so that society's general values have changed, masculine men are not valued for what they were before, nor is the average man.

You could easily say the men of those days had inflated egos and an inaccurate assessment of their value, same way men here say of contemporary women.

The issue with value is it is partially determined by society; you cannot make other people deem you valuable unless you adhere to what they value. If you don't or can't, it simply means you will not be as valuable to those groups when compared to others who met that criteria. That's not oppression. That's just market value.

You can try to set your value/cost at whatever you want, but all human relationships are transactional and contain negotiations of some kind, even if it's not openly discussed. Men being angry because they don't meet the market's standards to play is valid, but it doesn't mean it's the market's problem, or even a problem for everyone.

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I can see value and understand the appeal of regulation, but am typically against it in any form unless it truly helps the majority, not just one demographic. I do think there needs to be a shift in support and opportunity for men, but we've yet to see what that will look like. It's possible it may just be stopping things like affirmative action or now expanding it to include people based on other statistics.

I genuinely think men are underachieving not because a system isn't "built for them" (it's not entirely built for others, either, it's generally built for businesses and profit) but because many western, cultural values have shifted left and this is away from traditional masculinity, and there is no guidebooks for men to navigate this new terrain with success, because there was no focus on their demographics. People are starting to realize it, some of the main issues I think people take with manosphere groups is that:

They lash out in anger and violence against innocent individuals rather than government or political structures.
Many of their main complaints are regarding sex and women, which is not something that can be regulated for their benefit without suppressing other people's freedoms.
They are not suppressed by laws that keep them from voting, owning property, opening bank accounts, getting work, etc. However, we are beginning to see the bias in courts and perhaps high education, but the latter has more factors at play than just sex.

I do think it's possible women just enjoy and are naturally better at sitting and listening/memorizing academic content than a chunk of men. That's not inherently bad; it's not less bad than acknowledging men have an edge in physical strength.

Women not being forced to have children and having measured to prevent it simply mens less men will be in relationships, because those situations are often partially based on survival/codependency. People now have more options on how to avoid those situations, and do. Men expecting to have relationships and children is part of the issue, because no one is guaranteed that, no matter what culture implies. That cultural expectation needs to be shifted so people don't feel like failures or see it as the main goal of life.

Men aren't organizing in a way that is appealing to anyone but men. Their main complaints seem to be that they can't find love/get sex, and that they don't have the same power they used to because other demographics now have more power.

[–]ChorizoWestern1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I genuinely think men are underachieving not because a system isn't "built for them" (it's not entirely built for others, either, it's generally built for businesses and profit) but because many western, cultural values have shifted left and this is away from traditional masculinity, and there is no guidebooks for men to navigate this new terrain with success, because there was no focus on their demographics. People are starting to realize it, some of the main issues I think people take with manosphere groups is that:

Left values aren't exactly making the economy a service hellhole without any kind of unions and all the good stable industry jobs outside the country.

What left values are you talking about when men suffer the most during economical crises, stats show men's suicide rate increase quite a lot during those crisis, plus lower rate of relationships, marriages etc.

Meanwhile woman don't suffer from this.

I do think it's possible women just enjoy and are naturally better at sitting and listening/memorizing academic content than a chunk of men. That's not inherently bad; it's not less bad than acknowledging men have an edge in physical strength.

Yeah but men are paid the same even if they are more productive on physical jobs like warehouses. In fact it would be illegal.

Why is it a fair advantage but the men's ones aren't? Like companies should discriminate based on woman being able to get pregnant and therefore be way less productive compared to a man, but it isn't allowed for a reason.

Women not being forced to have children and having measured to prevent it simply mens less men will be in relationships, because those situations are often partially based on survival/codependency. People now have more options on how to avoid those situations, and do. Men expecting to have relationships and children is part of the issue, because no one is guaranteed that, no matter what culture implies. That cultural expectation needs to be shifted so people don't feel like failures or see it as the main goal of life.

That is not what is happening, why do men past their late 20s into their 30s and onwards start to develop relationships, following the same statistical patterns as in the past (20-10 years ago)?

Men aren't organizing in a way that is appealing to anyone but men. Their main complaints seem to be that they can't find love/get sex, and that they don't have the same power they used to because other demographics now have more power.

Bcs they are blind and you are just reading a tiny portion of what is actually happening on the world.

And what power are you talking about? Tiny % of men in the top ≠ the rest of the men.

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I just went to a conference to present my work and do some “networking” with other researchers. With the help of alcohol, you can get to learn some dirty research stuff that scientists won’t publicly tell like:

That one guy who creates new plastic that does not produce micro-plastics during use? Well it turns out the plastic actually creates nano-plastics instead which are potentially more dangerous. But due to difficulty in detecting them and public perception that cares more about micro-plastics, his work escapes regulation and scrutiny.
Another guy creates green, organic, environmentally friendly plastics from waste for food packaging. But the plastics may produce some trace amount of cyanide that is below regulated levels. That was not revealed during his talk. But to be fair, his cyanide is organic.
Another researcher got his proposal turned down because he proposed using cobalt which was toxic. So he wrote another proposal using lead compounds instead, but he used a less well-known name of the compound that does not literally contain the word “lead”. His new proposal got accepted.