Women tell men to stick to their league, but women are attracted to one type of men - those out of their league

Hando_the_Heel · 2022-12-01T01:15:56+00:00

Both genders are like this. Not the majority, but the loudest ones are. The gods honest truth is social media elevates controversy and anger framing posts. Broad stroke generalizations just breed more resentment. 90% of people really aren’t this picky, they just want a person who will appreciate them.

neetykeeno · 2022-11-30T18:29:31+00:00

Scrawny skinny and fit skinny are different looks

HolyPipidastra · 2022-11-30T19:19:09+00:00

I think it’s a bit of both: both genders feel like they are entitled to all sorts of things. That’s why it’s stupid to have these discussions over the internet, we would need to assess you and assess the girls you are approaching and find out who is a lemon.

Cat_Lover259 · 2022-11-30T17:55:03+00:00

I’m gonna say it. You all praise women way too much on the internet. I’m sure you guys have your NSFW accounts because I have one as well. I’m not a 10. I’d say a 7 at least but men who comment and message me try to make me think I’m a 10 or higher. They hype me up WAY too much and I’m just too down to earth to not believe them and let it fool me into thinking I am a 10 when I know I’m not.

Other women aren’t like that, they will believe it and use it when looking for relationships with better looking guys. You want women to stop thinking they’re all that in the looks department? Then stop hyping them up online.

Men just need to stop being desperate and giving compliments to any woman who does not care about him. I’ve become numb to compliments since I get them SO much now.

I’m only sharing this because I think it will help with the dating world and lowering women’s standards. A lot of women post NSFW images or even just the ones on social media who post selfies. The compliments just become annoying from men after a while. Y’all just gotta stop complimenting us and honestly it could change things. But that won’t happen unless all men agree to stop doing it.

AoiLune · 2022-11-30T19:08:41+00:00

I mean, most men will throw themselves at anything with a pulse, attractive or not. So if a woman is looking for a hookup she’s going to go with “quality,” i.e why not go with the hottest or richest option available rather than sleeping with some average joe

TempoIndigo · 2022-11-30T18:59:29+00:00

Most people will find and fall in love with someone around their “looks match” at some point in their lives

The above comic is FDS rage and is equivalent to incels posting comics about how every woman is a Stacy whore

Neither are based in reality, all are based on insecure people stuck in ideological echo chambers

lolthankstinder · 2022-11-30T20:09:15+00:00

Dan Ariely said it best. When choosing who to give a chance (second date after a quick speed dating event), women tend to employ a "top N" strategy while men employ a "threshold" strategy. Men are willing to invest in a date with any woman above a certain personal attractiveness threshold while women are only willing to date the "top N" guys based on a personal "N" and their perception of what guys are available to them. Consequently, men's selectivity is more resilient to high-option environments than women. In a high-options environment like dating apps, women's willingness to date the "top N" guys remains unchanged and adjusts to the top men of that larger environment which is a smaller overall percentage of the men on there.

There's no way to objectively define "leagues" but I could definitely see how this top N theory would give off the impression that women are attracted to men out of their league. Let's simplify and say a woman suddenly gets inundated in attention by lots of 5/10s, a few 6/10s, and fewer 7/10s. Our perception of her league would probably be 5/10, but her desire to date would be be limited to the top N which is probably just the 6/10s and 7/10s.

This threshold vs top N selectivity theory, if true, could explain why dating apps are so awful. If you imagine a universe A with 50 dating men and 50 dating women, and a universe B with 100 dating men and 100 dating women, Dan Ariely's research suggests that if a woman would date the top 10 guys in universe A, she'll also only date the top 10 guys in universe B while a guy that would date the top 10 girls in universe A would date the top 20 girls in universe B. So NOT ONLY is the dating population larger, but the woman is also getting MORE attention and "perceived options" which might make her EVEN MORE selective. However, the number of men and women also doubled, so the woman is competing with more women for a smaller percentage of guys. Oof.

sparklyyblueberryy · 2022-11-30T21:40:07+00:00

Two different leagues, looks league, and sexual market value league.

Seems like nowadays a jacked good looking man has similar market value league as a fat average girl. Its skewed

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-11-30T18:11:58+00:00

Women historically don't know their league because they think a dude fucking them = their league.

Which is ironic considering women know men will fuck down.

Mr_Makak · 2022-11-30T18:05:33+00:00

The sheer idea of "your league" is based on a faulty assumption (projection) that heterosexual women are generally attracted to most men. This is wrong, they're not. To an average woman, an average man is far below average attractivenes.

While this may seem absurd and unintuitive to a heterosexual male, it's a pivotal fact in understanding the dynamic

themostgianthorse · 2022-11-30T18:05:41+00:00

The Leagues conversation is mostly a circle jerk.

Men and women are different and have different criteria for “the leagues.”

Women’s initial attraction to men is not based (almost) solely on physical appearance the way men’s initial attraction is. Ergo, men will not be able to assess what “league” they are in based on a woman’s physical appearance. Attempting to do so is mostly a waste of time.

Less focus on leagues. More focus on lunges.

This statement may seem contradictory to the point above but the lunges are not just for your legs; they are for your head.

SoleMatesC4S · 2022-11-30T19:50:03+00:00

The big problem is the assumption that the bucktoothed girl who would totally date you actually exists. I knew for a fact no one in my social circle wanted to date me but idiots online were always "hurr durr you just don't notice her". They always seem to shut up when I ask them to tell me who this person is, if they're such experts on my own life.

How can a guy even know, much less stick to his league these days?

A guy's league is never who he's shooting for, to these people. I've dated/hooked up with models. It doesn't happen often, and I've been single for a dog's age, but on the rare occasion somebody bothers to go out with me, they're attractive. I can guarantee you if I posted my photo and said "guess my league" everyone here would have an absolute fit at how "entitled" I am for thinking I have a shot at these "kweens".

2022-11-30T21:38:23+00:00

And if a guy talks about leagues in a way that doesnt benefit women, the women say "wtf are u talking about, leagues dont exist"

ashpr0ulx · 2022-11-30T17:25:58+00:00

your league is the best you can get and under. if you can’t get it, it’s out of your league.

Green-Quantity1032 · 2022-11-30T19:46:05+00:00

You're kinda doing a red herring thing here though.

Those girl who are attracted to men "out of their league" - sure, she can have sex with them, but she can't get them to commit to a relationship with her.

Average guys a lot of times date girls way prettier than they are - but they probably wouldn't be those girls' choice if they were looking for a ONS or an FWB.

Why red herring? I think you're only talking about casual sex, and when people tell you to stick to your league, they mean relationships. Casual sex is kind of a different ball game.

So yes, casual sex wise if you're not one of the more attractive ones (I'd say top 25% with good confidence-personality), you're not gonna be having that much fun.

But for relationships I've seen 6s with gorgeous girls.

Don't think that being a 7.5 is that easy on Tinder either, but you'll have your shot.

Like the advice for a 5 to get hobbies and meet girls through social circles for serious relationships is totally valid.

Those advice are always for people who are not getting girls.

If you were THAT hot, they assume you'd already be slaying, therefore they give you the 5 advice.

For marriage and LTRs people are honestly pretty looksmatched, with the girl being slightly prettier. Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assortative\_mating

Midaycarehere · 2022-11-30T22:07:16+00:00

Y’all date weird people. I have dated talk, short, rich, poor, thin and with some chubby-ness. Personality and compatibility is where it’s at.

obviousredflag · 2022-11-30T19:11:09+00:00

Now today a chubby guy is not in the same league as a chubby girl

He maybe is or maybe isn't. Leagues don't run along the lines of body fat or body height. Your fucking face makes a difference, too. There is no shift in how men and women are mating for long term relationships. What girls want is irrelevant. Whan men want is irrelevant. You get your equal. And if your equal is not attractive enough for you to want to be with them, you get nothing.

Maybe some people need to spend some more time in their twenties, trying to get the partner of their dreams before they realize that's not going to happen. It certainly doesn't help, that the feed of instagram/tiktok videos make it appear as if the 0.00x% most attractive people on the planet are more numerous and more available than they actually are.

mc0079 · 2022-11-30T19:50:07+00:00

Have you walked around a Walmart or Target and seen the couples?

morbidnihilism · 2022-11-30T19:53:01+00:00

me: *tries to date in my own league*

girl: *is attracted to guys better looking than me*

Early-Christmas-4742 · 2022-11-30T18:07:17+00:00

There are not rigid leagues. There is no points system. Just go for women you're attractes to until you find ine that's attracted to you too. Stop trying to crack the code before being willing to try.

Peacesquad · 2022-11-30T20:04:04+00:00

Damn that chick is ugly as fuck lmao

DoinIt989 · 2022-11-30T22:48:32+00:00

HEIGHT, FACE, FRAME. Most women want at least 1 out of 3, preferably 2 or all 3. Different women place them in different rankings, and have different "minimums" (some women will date any man taller than them, some demand 6 foot tall, some don't care about height at all and will date a shorter man).

At the end of the day, even a male model won't attract all women. It's just a numbers game. You keep campaigning and eventually you get elected.

Flintblood · 2022-12-01T15:03:53+00:00

This concern is legit but most of the privelege is for younger women under 32 (arbitrary line) - and is more pronounced for girls 18-23. When a young woman is 18-23 she can be medically overweight but the weight will really sit well and enhance the right places (breasts, butt) and she will have a youthful face and vibe. But the women I know who are over 35 and overweight don’t really have the same privilege and if she wants to compete she usually has to try harder and workout.

There are other issues that need addressing which contribute to the average young female’s inflated expectations.

The first is the Chads and Tyrones that are fond of just trying to piss on all corners and give every around average girl the impression that if they “get with him” she’ll have a chance. Bro, if you’re hot and all that, then use your privelege to find the one best woman you can and commit or be honest about your preferences to not commit and only go after women who are truly in YOUR league.

Second, the simps have to stop simping. Simping and attention from guys out of their league both give the average female an inflated view of what they can get from dating.

Lastly, the body positivity movement seems to be for females only and all it does is encourage accepting less than optimal health.

Aubrey_D_Graham · 2022-11-30T17:58:42+00:00

A woman can have sex with Chad once, and think that's her league. No ma'am, sex is not a relationship. Your league is the kind of men you can keep.

Sea_Tour_3696 · 2022-11-30T17:56:03+00:00

If you're talking about the Miami style girl sure.

If we are talking about US women or women in general. I think we can say there are traits we all know to be more attractive both in males and females. If we pull back and think from an individual stand point I think many of us agree that we could never find our unicorn or that it would take far too long to. That its an extremely competitive market place to find that ideal person we see in our head.

The truth is every person is different. Every person is going to have different attractions and different settling points with the person they end up with.

Men and women are not a one size fits all. Sure it would be nice to have someone that's insanely hot, caring, emotionally available and so on. Many of us have ideas like this in our head of what we want, but when it's in reality many of us will be happy without all the bells and whistles, male or female.

Take a step back and think about this in an analogy. Say you're car shopping. Many people want that 500k car that's sporty stands out and is absolutely amazing to drive. Some may work their whole life to get it. Some may be in the situation to already get it. Some may find the car ugly. Some may understand that maybe it's a bad time investment/money investment and decide that they would be just as happy with a Toyota or a beater.

I think you can acknowledge there are traits that stand out more both physically and mentally while also understanding that most people won't check every single box. That many times people can be happy without having some one in a million unicorn. We are all human we are flawed no matter how perfect we look. There's always a give and a take.

Sure you can find that unicorn but be willing to pay the time for it.

Sure you can be an asshole and reject everyone because they don't fit your imaginary person, but don't cry when you're lonely.

Also if someone's standards are so high that the majority of people can't even fit them just accept the fact that they weeded themselves out. You never want to find yourself in a relationship where the other party has a cookie cutter idea of who you should be. You'll end up trashed like that last piece of dough if you don't fit right. Or eaten alive (mentally).

gate18 · 2022-11-30T18:32:51+00:00

Women tell men to stick to their league

To hell with those women to say that

but women are attracted to one type of men - those out of their league

Let those women be.

1-4 sometimes true, sometimes not

How can a guy even know, much less stick to his league these days?

By not fooling himself that stereotypes mean everyone.

FairyMachine · 2022-11-30T17:17:38+00:00

women are attracted to one type of men

We're really not, though.

learn2earn89 · 2022-11-30T17:38:40+00:00

Look, most people bat out of their league whenever they can. I’m pretty realistic in that I like handsome men but I’m below average so I don’t even talk to them lol but guys here act like dudes aren’t trying to hit on women out of their league. A few years ago a guy posted a pic of himself and the women he asked out. He didn’t understand why they rejected him. Bro was asking out women in the 7-8 range when he himself was a 5.

OkProfessional9405 · 2022-11-30T17:37:59+00:00

Whatever excuse you get don't read too much logic into it. It was the best and kindest way she could think of turning you down on the spot. It wasn't meant to kick off a discussion to convince her she was wrong. It was a no.

Hit the gym. Ask some female friends to help with your wardrobe to up your game. Learn to turn the spot light on others and engage others into the conversation instead of talking about yourself.

What all these women are really just saying is you aren't there yet.

Notanothrshitthrow · 2022-11-30T17:47:54+00:00

Blah blah blah ridiculous generalisations about women that show you know very little about them blah blah blah

hybridcbu · 2022-11-30T19:12:35+00:00

Listening to them was your first mistake.

trashmarch · 2022-11-30T21:30:27+00:00

i'm in the league of men who went their own way. it's the only way to succeed in today's dystopian dating scene.

Ganajin · 2022-11-30T21:38:47+00:00

Look around the planet and you will see most couples are looks matched. So go for it.

ConsultJimMoriarty · 2022-12-01T00:17:32+00:00

People want the best they can get.

If that means they end up alone and they're okay with that, that's their choice. If they're content to settle, that's also their choice.

carljungs · 2022-12-01T01:01:00+00:00

I think your really on to something here. You speak of hypocrisy in the opposite sex. As far as league it is about being pragmatic and how you are equals. How about start with telling tall men not to date short women that are able to have kids so that they don't pass short genes to their offsprings. Tell the desirable men to date superior stock of desirable women and have high standards beyond just the looks. Go for all of it; smart, beautiful, tall, fit, rich, and healthy physically and mentally. Wait, that kinda sounds like someone in history books that tried that. Bit strange on similarities huh when you put it into your post's context with gender emphasis.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-12-01T03:51:57+00:00

The problem is that by definition, your league IS who you can attract. There is no objective arbiter of leagues, no panel of elders who decides who goes where on a scale. Just subjective perceptions and the resulting general consensus of others, which we can loosely call “objective” attractiveness. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, not in one’s very biased self-assessment. You cannot say truthfully “I am more attractive than the last 20 women who rejected me,” because you have no objective way to measure that. And we can be pretty sure that the consensus of others is that no, you are not.

However, I wouldn’t tell someone to “stick to their league” per se, because people’s taste and perception varies too much. Someone who you see as out of your league might not see it that way. As I said before, there will be a general consensus, but opinions will also vary quite a bit. Especially among women toward men.

Conscious_Ad_6572 · 2022-12-01T04:15:28+00:00

My player friend told me, men do business in goods, women do business in biology

WilliamWyattD · 2022-12-01T04:23:07+00:00

The OP is aiming at real issues, but missing the mark. Many things are being conflated.

First, leagues are not purely determined by appearance, though the extent to which they are--and perhaps increasingly are--is an important point.

Second, because leagues are not entirely about looks, the idea of 'looksmatch' as some sort of moral barometer of whether the SMP is functioning properly is not a good metric. That said, we can have an intuitive sense that the SMP may not be clearing at fair equilibriums. Whether looksmatches are happening, or at least how far off couples are from looksmatch, might be one of the data points our intuition uses for such a determination. But it would just be one of of many.

Finally, one has to acknowledge that women have greater reproductive costs. And thus that in any intuition about fairness, some degree of hypergamy should be allowed for to compensate. Granted, these reproductive costs are in some ways much less than before. But they are still there.

cataza · 2022-12-01T05:58:34+00:00

You either follow the rule or don't play the game at all.

RocinanteCoffee · 2022-12-02T08:18:09+00:00

You are already guaranteed to have a portion of the population reject you even if you are good looking and charming, it might be a small percentage, but nobody is welcomed by everybody.

Why on EARTH would you self-reject on behalf of additional people by just assuming that they are 'out of your league'?

Swipe right on everyone you find attractive and think you might enjoy spending time with, whether they are "out of your league", "in your league" or "below your league".

If they decide to reject you so be it. But they just might find you to be exactly who they are searching for.

Glass_Bucket · 2022-11-30T17:21:06+00:00

try to date skinny girls "I love to stay in shape so naturally I'm into fit muscular men"

This doesn't happen lol, most skinny girls are ok with thin/average bodied men, it's only the gym rat women who will want a gym rat bf

If you think skinny girls only want muscular men you are really delusional

Think_History_5682 · 2022-11-30T19:00:04+00:00

This is ridiculous, men don't have to stick to their league bc women are the deciders. When we go outside our league we're just wasting our time.

When women do it they end up as bangfodder in situationships they think will turn into their oh so precious LTR'S

localmicrodosechamp · 2022-11-30T19:11:41+00:00

so men are hypocrites is what you're saying?

Cult_of_Chad · 2022-11-30T17:21:39+00:00

"your league is who you can attract, sweety"

Your league is what you can get, sweaty... Like, imagine thinking otherwise. If you're selling something, you can ask for whatever price you want; its actual value is ultimately determined by who's buying—or not.

Dick has negative value. You're not so much selling it as begging someone, anyone, to take it off your hands. Any product that people are actually insulted when you try and give it away is less than worthless.

2022-11-30T21:03:52+00:00

I'm 5'5", 132 lbs, I'm pretty much white and I have an average looking face at best. Any woman in the USA who is 5'5", 132 lbs, white and has an average looking face has infinitely higher SMV than me and can even sell her poop to simps and orbiters to make a living.

This is why "leagues" are stupid if you go by the dating market because even an obese 70 year old woman can get 1000s of matches and date young healthy men every other day (I can link the live experiment if you don't believe me) meanwhile I'm unable to date any woman in the US pretty much.

BedroomJazz · 2022-11-30T22:47:06+00:00

While everyone is different and has their own set of values, women aren't "dating up" and men aren't "dating down." They're dating their equivalent on average. It's just that men and women typically value different things.

In general for women, looks are less important while status + financial security valued more. That's why we so often see guys who don't really go to the gym or eat well paired with gorgeous women, and when a rich millionaire dude is dating a woman who looks like a 10 according to society, but makes a lot less, he's not thinking he's dating down because she's making less. In his mind, he's probably dating exactly where he should be

Local_Quality534 · 2022-11-30T23:24:22+00:00

This completely contradicts what I’ve observed in real life. I’ve lived in 4 large metro areas in my life both in the US and Europe and I can’t even count the number of times I’ve seen a Instagram model looking girl with an average joe. Rarely do I ever see a hot dude hanging out with an average girl (unless he’s out with family and she’s his sister). It’s almost always the guy trying and successfully dating up. You know why? Because they have charisma and know how to talk to women (and no, this isn’t the same as simping). Y’all need to go outside and touch some grass.

2022-11-30T17:52:19+00:00

This only makes sense if the average man looks better than the average woman, but that's really not the case.

We constantly see men in relationships with women who are more conventionally attractive. As theh say here, women tend to choose partners due to a number of factors, whereas men are more likely to only be interested in looks.

This sub loves to act as though fat women can't possibly be considered attractive, and yet also get dates. Well which is it? Unless you're saying their partners don't find them attractive at all and are just using them for sex. But why use someone for sex long term when you are apparently better looking?

Either you think there's a free market sexual economy or you don't, but you can't have it both ways.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2022-11-30T21:12:42+00:00

I'm a short brown dude and things go fine for me. But....

...GO OUTSIDE.

Like, the alarmism really just falls apart when you go out and look at real couples. People are pretty evenly matched.

somethingpunny2 · 2022-12-01T02:19:44+00:00

So… I was going to to just shake my head and scroll because I thought it was another angsty teenage boy disillusioned after entering the real world, and realizing no one wants to suck his dick and continue worshiping him as his mother did (these are two separate things men expect upon adulthood). Then, clicked on the profile and saw greying hair- and remembered… Reddit.

The dichotomy between genders is vast. I have been deconstructing it all since I started raising my son.

I am the middle of three girls, born to an evolved man and capable woman. I have lived through my internalized misogyny, much to the chagrin of my parents. You can either hear me, or dismiss me- but it needs to be said.

Grow up.

Being a female, and having the pleasure of knowing countless others- I can tell you that you are deciding to be wrong. I, especially at my age (grey as well but under 45), have made many efforts to figure out the how and why of things.

Women who care about height are using their arsenal to defend themselves or work through their trauma (if it’s height it is usually indicative of trauma from men). If you see this, know that there are walls you will have to make doors into if you want to CARE and be a partner to these women. If the superficiality of their desires offends you, consider your own, and process.

Height means nothing to those ready and qualified for partnership. Anyone stuck on this is letting the first hurdle trip them up.

Freelovehighway · 2022-11-30T23:26:39+00:00

Nobody owes anyone anything. Attraction is attraction. There's nothing just or fair about it. You're attracted to what you're attracted to. You decide the trade off. Go after someone who is your exact type or lonely. There's nothing wrong with that. Everyone is free to do what they want and are also entitled to moan that people they like don't like them

neetykeeno · 2022-11-30T20:06:15+00:00

There's no such thing as a league. If you can access someone who is legal you can make an approach. That's not the case for competitive league based activities. There's no way I am going to get to play the grandmasters in most large chess tournaments...the tournament has structures to see they don't waste their time with my shitty take on the Colle system and I don't waste my time with games in which I am crushed so quickly I don't have fun at all.

That's what people are inviting you to do for yourself when they mention leagues...to save you and everyone else trouble by working out where in the hierarchy of attractiveness you are and then don't go wasting your time and people's general goodwill towards each other by continually trying to shoot your shot when it has zero chance of landing on target.

Your league if you decide to have one is on its upper range the zone in which your approaches receive some genuinely positive response. If you never get so much as a smile that actually reaches her eyes with a particular sort of girl then you are out of your league. There is no lower attractiveness range to your league but you may want to just not bother below a certain point.

There. You've been told how to know your league.

As for sticking to your league... nobody is forcing you to not approach outside your league...and your decisions are entirely your responsibility. You could approach a thousand girls a year who are out of your league and no law to stop you. Do like... whatever. Isn't freedom swell? Maybe try approaching only in your league once you are done for the day with being told to fuck off.

lovestocomment · 2022-11-30T20:24:55+00:00

It's called hypergamy... Deal with it or don't.. up to you.

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DeepFriedhentaiMemes · 2022-11-30T18:29:41+00:00

If you are a guy and date someone out of Yule league do you respect thethe woman less? What does into league qualifications because it definitely isn’t just looks

WideAwake550 · 2022-11-30T21:01:06+00:00

Here's the thing. Unless a man is 8 or above, he won't get "groupies." It just won't happen.

However, it's perfectly possible to date women within or even out of your league on an individual basis. You just need to put yourself in different venues and try to connect. Don't try to be Chad or Tyrone. If you're not an 8, it just won't happen. But put yourself out there and you'll still be able to date women who aren't ugly.

Kobe_curry24 · 2022-11-30T21:23:11+00:00

Lmfaoooo This is great caption

wtknight · 2022-11-30T21:50:10+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Impossible_You_8555 · 2022-12-01T08:11:13+00:00

The woman who day stick to your league are insecure, high value women don't say this, the truth is mediocre women when a man they want to believe is beneath them hits on them they fear it's proof of their low value

Hence why small town hot girls, 5s and 6s go on about leagues.

pseudonymmed · 2022-12-04T18:26:29+00:00

On dating apps women are more likely to message men they consider lower than average in attractiveness than the opposite. The majority of men all message the top 10% of women but women mostly message average guys.

https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/

cerumenimpaction420 · 2022-12-08T13:51:01+00:00

have you tried talking to women irl? if you’re funny and likable like none of this crap matters

Title	Women tell men to stick to their league, but women are attracted to one type of men - those out of their league
Author	Johnny_Autism
Upvotes	294
Comments	362
Date	November 30, 2022 5:15 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/z8x28c/women_tell_men_to_stick_to_their_league_but_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-tell-men-to-stick-to-their-league-but-women.1141258 https://theredarchive.com/post/1141258

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