CMV: Men should put effort into dates because they want to meet women more than women want to meet them

no_value_male · 2021-02-02T20:42:15+00:00

If women truly want to be equal to men they should meet them halfway when it comes to dating efforts. Everything else is thinly veiled prostitution.

rosephase · 2021-02-02T18:33:33+00:00

I just date men I like and I’m attracted to and want to spend time with. It would make me extremely uncomfortable to have a stranger spend a bunch of money on me to prove something.

If dates aren’t fun? Stop doing them.

jackandjill22 · 2021-02-02T18:40:26+00:00

One of the biggest issues I keep reading about in this sub is men being angry women don't want to go out with them unless the guy is putting in some kind of effort (generally, inviting her to a dinner he pays for).

I don't agree with being angry about it either, but at the end of the day anyone is free to discard for alternatives, and that's exactly what men and women ought to do.

Of course, one's demands might price them out of the market if they don't offer value commensurate to their demands.

Thems the breaks. There's no "should".

thelajestic · 2021-02-02T18:48:19+00:00

This is so stupid. If you don't want to go on the date, don't go on it. Don't expect to be compensated for your time with free meals etc.

Go on dates with people you want to go on dates with, and both of you pay your own share.

Matt_Door · 2021-02-02T18:53:02+00:00

A guy doesn’t just “give you” a healthy relationship.

Choice-Fish-5291 · 2021-02-02T19:48:03+00:00

can't relate. generally works the other way around for me. i think you underestimate the traction that some guys get. any man who's successful with women wouldn't want to waste time on someone as bitter as you.

JohnDoe9564 · 2021-02-02T18:31:53+00:00

Sometimes I think the women on this sub are lesbians in disguise with the way they describe men.

But as someone who doesn't want to have sex outside of a committed, monogamous relationship, there's not much I can do to help you guys.

I don't care, other women will. Why wouldn't I go to the others who don't make me pay for 10 dates and do a monkey dance to have sex?

NockerJoe · 2021-02-02T20:36:17+00:00

This has got to be the biggest horseshit that gest consistently posted. It seems like every third woman here has an obsession with some theoretical hot girl who gets this weird song and dance and doesn't care about anything except getting the song and dance for her own validation.

reluctantly_red · 2021-02-02T18:31:09+00:00

Sounds like the OP doesn't like going on dates. That's fine she can stay at home doing whatever.

Women who like having sex with men like going on dates with men. Guys don't have to dance like trained monkeys for such women.

Guys need to save their money and effort by avoiding women like the OP.

Iluvalmonds83 · 2021-02-02T19:31:21+00:00

The moment you frame yourself as having a price tag for dates, you imply that all a guy just has to do is spend enough money on you to establish that his expectations on reciprocal sex are well founded.

No one pays my way, or for my attraction to th, nor can anyone pay to take away my own agency or will. If I or a prospective guy are really interested and aligned on intent, that can be shown through actions outside of spending on/requiring money from the other person.

If you are dependent on vetting by how much a guy will spend on you for a date, you are probably not going to be very successful at properly weeding out the wrong type of people and miss out on the right ones.

SeemedGood · 2021-02-02T19:07:57+00:00

Men who are desirable to women have no desire to interact with women that aren’t excited about interacting with them. We have better options.

covfefe_believer · 2021-02-02T19:48:58+00:00

I got it!

This FDS Syndrome.

ABlueParrot · 2021-02-02T18:54:41+00:00

Why are you going on dates you don't want to go on?

Blink twice if you are being held hostage.

SaBahRub · 2021-02-02T18:33:18+00:00

CMV: Men should put effort into dates because they want to fuck women more than women want to fuck them

Fixed that for ya

Sir_manalot · 2021-02-02T18:26:55+00:00

Ok fine, but what is going to happen when men treat you worse and worse in some way or quit in response (like they are doing now)?

If you put all the responsibility on men here, then you also give men all the power in what options you get.

So things like toxic masculinity, men using women for sex, lying and mgtow will keep growing as you are giving them all the power.

StrugglingRando · 2021-02-02T20:45:57+00:00

A woman who has this kind of perspective of relationships is low value and is not worthy of any effort a man might put forward. A relationship is 50-50. Being a female is not enough effort. Speaking to men: if a woman refuses to do her part, you dodged a missile, move on.

Jaylen-Gads · 2021-02-02T19:12:41+00:00

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Gamedragon345 · 2021-02-02T19:59:18+00:00

Well,how do we know that you are like every other woman, and that you don't just want a free lunch.

Andress1 · 2021-02-02T19:38:00+00:00

And women should do most of housework and childcare because men don't care as much as women about how clean a house is and women want children more than men. Agree?

Counter_Proposition · 2021-02-02T20:00:25+00:00

Firstly, I greatly respect your decision to NOT sleep around and honest to God, really wish more women were like you!! Now, that said...

I would be HAPPY to pay for the meal to show the person that I take our relationship seriously and I'm not just trying to use them. If I were bitter about having to do this, that's probably because I am trying to use the other person and not respecting them as another human being.

Let me give you a man's perspective on this - many of us (more traditional guys at least) indeed are happy to take you out to dinner and pay. However, I'm not going on a second date with you (sex or not) if I do not enjoy your company and didn't have fun on the date! Also, if you're so miserable the whole time, believe me it WILL come across! I don't really understand why you would date in this context, but I'm a man so maybe I just can't relate. I'm not trying to go ad-hominem on you at all, but it sounds you're the one that bitter in this situation IMHO.

obaker8 · 2021-02-02T20:15:11+00:00

Personally if a man paid for my meal, if anything I’d feel like now he thinks I’m indebted to him or I owe him something (sex). I’d rather pay for my share and have him prove himself to me by having a fun date. I agree that he should put in effort, but that effort should be to get to know me, to have an engaging conversation, etc., not to show interest with money. Tbh I find the whole expecting men to pay for dates thing to be just further misogyny, like he’s supposed to be the provider or financially superior, which I don’t want to be the case right off the bat.

I_sort_by_new_fam · 2021-02-02T20:18:59+00:00

ah yes. base a standard on an hyper idolized celebrity. that should go well for a hypothetical

Karmanger · 2021-02-02T20:22:39+00:00

You sound like you're in your 30's.

No one wants to be taken advantage of. Both genders manipulate the other for their own benefit, Women are not exempt from this either. For every woman that wants a nice date there is a woman that labels guys "free meals"..... How do you tell the difference before the date?

Also a sizable portion of men feel that it's better to be single than chase women as indicated by the MGTOW philosophy.

paul_a_8002 · 2021-02-02T20:45:57+00:00

If a normal but attractive dude went on a date with Margot Robbie, a millionaire, would she really even expect him to pay?

Banned_BY_SOYMEN · 2021-02-02T18:32:28+00:00

Men aren't entitled to sex. Women aren't entitled to elaborate dates or commitment.

The average to above average woman (aka not the below average women on FDS) isn't going to expect someone to pay for the date. In fact, a man doing so will oftentimes look desperate and needy, which will cause the woman to perceive him as low value.

It's 2021. Don't claim to be a strong, independent wahman and then demand men should pay for dates.

DonQOnIce · 2021-02-02T18:35:03+00:00

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Vatiemahr · 2021-02-02T21:30:57+00:00

Bruh why y'all so mad, she said "if YOU'RE the one, who wants to date someone, YOU should put effort into it". Why should the person YOU'RE interested in be interested in dating you if you don't show any effort? And if that's too much because all you want is sex and some girls might give you that without the effort, find a different girl but don't get mad at those women who don't want to

truth-informant · 2021-02-02T21:33:35+00:00

I don't give more and receive less when I have to. If you're saying men are subservient, then I say fuck you.

We. Don't. Need. You.

xxpen15mightierxx · 2021-02-02T21:39:33+00:00

This is for sure some FDS shit, but I’ll bite.

Why? Because it raises the bar for what a date should be. A date should be getting to know someone you’re attracted to, not a bribe. If you take girls out for fancy dinners you’re a free fancy dinner service and get treated as such. If you invite someone out for dinner you should be paying anyway.

If Margot Robbie agreed to go on a date with me but wanted to go somewhere fancy, I’d expect her to pay. We both know she’s got movie star money, it would be weird if you tried to flex on her financially.

And if a date is just not fun you need to go home, in other words, if a girl is clearly bored just take her home. No need to waste anyone’s time.

Brainless-Wonder · 2021-02-02T21:57:13+00:00

Straw man. Many men aren’t complaining that women don’t want to go out with them because “they have to put in effort.” The issue is more so that due to said onslaught of attention women receive, women tend to overvalue themselves to a point where it’s difficult to find a woman who doesn’t have either rigidly inflexible high standards or outlandish fantasy projections for the men she’d like to date/sleep with.

Women are not inherently the prize. In the ideal dating scenario, both parties have an equal share of proving to do - what do our interactions look like, do we both treat one another with respect, can we pool resources together responsibly, and most of all, do we care for one another and share a mutual attraction? Men need to vet the connection as well, because we invest quite a bit in relationships too. It’s not entirely about pleasing you.

If you think of yourself exclusively as the prize, then you’ve poisoned the well for yourself and of course you’re going to see all men as fuckboys when they inevitably leave because they don’t want to put up with being let known that they’re inadequate compared to some crazy high standard.

If you feel you don’t trust men anymore, then stop dating for a while and reassess your priorities.

Expensive-Guitar3609 · 2021-02-03T01:07:00+00:00

Saying men SHOULD put more effort (implying that they are not doing it) because women won't...

I mean it sounds stupid and entitled right?

I'm not putting a shit for a woman that's not excited to know me as much as I am to meet her.

Women can complain that I'm low effort though, they have that right.

AndyWarholWasAwful · 2021-02-02T19:43:02+00:00

Once I am asked out on a date

I think it is ok to come up with a dating plan together.

I mean guys usually think women want to be wined and dined and that's a good date but I like dates that while they aren't dirt cheap still provide room for bonding in other fashion. I don't even like going to restaurants

I'm talking about going to the zoo or a museum or somewhere public and interesting

But how can a man know that about me if I don't tell him? BUT In my experience guys love absolutely love pursuing and easy targets are a tad boring and they back off quick. In my experience anyway. I'm not saying play hard to get to your grave but expect some effort like jeez. I think you just got to give some hints on how you want to be pursued

I don't think going on dates with interesting people is a chore. It's a chore to go on a date with a person you don't really like but WHY would you on a date with that kind of guy? Every date I've been at I've been excited as hell to go on.

But anyways yeah I agree with you that being pursued is necessary because that is what guys we would want to be involved with is interested in. I've done both. Pursued/been pursued. Every single time I've been happier as the woman who is pursued

YoMamas_azz · 2021-02-02T20:07:19+00:00

The problem is so many women engage in bad faith. There are so many women who just want a free meal or attention, or to feel theyre powerful because they have a guy wrapped around their finger. If women only engaged in dating in good faith I would have zero problem taking girls on dates. But because I cant trust women, I am only willing to interact with women completely on my terms. If she isnt down to "hang out" on the first meet then bye.

2021-02-02T20:13:18+00:00

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covfefe_believer · 2021-02-02T18:50:18+00:00

But you are not Margot Robbie - so don't expect to get treated like that.

You are you and will be treated like you should.

grimbasement · 2021-02-02T19:19:03+00:00

Men should put efforts into dates if that's his value system. Dating is about the man fully expressing himself asking a woman to come along. Half assing anything you value is a recipe for a unfulfilling life.

Ecocavalry · 2021-02-02T19:40:07+00:00

Go to r/fds and talk to like minded women.

Alfredaux · 2021-02-02T20:03:19+00:00

I split date costs on first dates. Plus, Robbie is pretty wealthy and I’m sure her tastes cost more than I can afford. Effort and paying aren’t at all synonymous. Effort would be planning a date and other logistics, not paying for a woman’s time.
You don’t know how a guy would treat her, but the fact that you are not her and likely not at her level of fame and wealth, you can expect different treatment than Robbie receives and that isn’t unreasonable.
This is really what this whole post is about. YOU don’t enjoy dates with men and you are applying your limited experiences to women in general. That’s not how it works. I’d have to say that it is also unlikely that any man is particularly enjoying his date time with you if you make it obvious that you’d rather not be there.
Buying your time isn’t any sort of assurance that anyone is into you for anything more than sex. Nor are actually shows of efforts to have a date.

You’re incorrect notion that ANY opportunity for sex is aspirational to men is offensive. Honestly, the narrow minded beliefs and conceptions you expressed in your post makes me not at all surprised that you don’t have an enjoyable dating life.

gopher_glitz · 2021-02-02T20:07:18+00:00

If a guy had a date with Margot Robbie, he would buy her dinner.

Even if Margot Robbie would only date me IF I bought her dinner, I wouldn't want a date with Margot Robbie.

If her incentive is to get a free meal, she isn't interested enough.

Even IF I am able to 'win her over' with baiting her with a meal she will bolt as soon as she finds a guy she IS interested enough in without a free dinner etc.

We see woman have sex with guys ALL THE TIME without them even trying, if we have to try harder WE already lost.

Men should only put as much effort as the effort of the guys she's hooked up with.

HOLYREGIME · 2021-02-02T18:33:54+00:00

If a guy had a date with Margot Robbie, he would by her dinner. Period.

Let me stop you right there OP. If I was Chad you would suck me off for free, no date required.

I’m not Margot Robbie

Then you’ll likely get the bare minimum.

wtknight · 2021-02-02T20:27:05+00:00

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GrandRub · 2021-02-02T20:38:23+00:00

"low value" men want to date women more than vica versa.

by paying for dinner a man shows that he is low value - because no high value man would a woman dinner.

Saint-Owl17 · 2021-02-02T20:40:16+00:00

Sooo basically a red pill woman here

LowCreddit · 2021-02-02T20:51:14+00:00

You are wrong. In my position, I have to meet with clients and do a lot of sales. Less now than I used to fortunately. Anyhow, wherever I go on business, I constantly bring little gifts and try to pay for as much as possible. This isn't because I am a super nice guy. Humans have an instinct for reciprocity. When you receive something, you feel a need to give back soon. This is why sales guys show up with donuts and whatnot. You will instinctively be more inclined to give him the sale later on when he tries to close. This works even when the client knows the game.

Women get hit with this all the time. Guys gift them stuff until they feel guilty for refusing them later. Most guys aren't thinking about it that way, but the effect is still there. When you accept these gifts, you are walking down a dangerous road. Accepting a nice dinner won't change every no into a yes, but it will change some. Worse, these borderline cases will the be the ones that you will regret the most.

The best first date for all parties is a public date where little money is involved to make sure the other person isn't a psychopath and that there is some chemistry. After that, you can start escalating the dates to nicer things. This ensures everyone's safety and keeps committal to a minimum.

Another problem is that men and women who expect fancy dinners on the first date are usually weirdos. The men are usually Nice Guys who will buy you a ton of stuff and then scream at you for not giving out the sex. The women are the types that will run up a large bill and spend the whole night on their phone. Does that sound like the person you want to be or date?

kickit · 2021-02-02T20:51:57+00:00

I would not buy Margot Robbie dinner. She's not only a movie star, but a rising Hollywood producer. I make good money, but she's very, very wealthy – I would split the check, but would not offer to pay for an expensive dinner.

I'm also not a Hollywood star or anything. But whatever, I assume if she wants to get dinner with em she knows what she's getting into.

If I take a grad student out to dinner, I will offer to take the check unless she absolutely insists otherwise. I make more money than a grad student does, so I think it's totally fair for me to cover dinner. And if I'm into her, it's more than worth it.

I'll come up with some fun ideas for second or third dates (or throw down money if it's something I really want to do, like go to a warehouse show or get great seats for an NBA game). But for first dates, I usually would rather just do something basic like grab a drink or a coffee or maybe hang out at the park.

It's easy enough to meet people, and you never really know whether you'll click with someone until you do. That's why I'd rather have a low investment first date and then come up with some cool ideas for dates after that (or better yet, go out for drinks and have a destination B and C in mind if things go well)

Jehshehabah · 2021-02-02T21:17:00+00:00

yelo777 · 2021-02-02T21:36:06+00:00

I understand your reasoning. What i would like to see in your online dating profile is that you are honest and open with about all requirements. "It's your job to woo me and pay for our date" "i won't have sex until we're in a committed relationship". This way I know to swipe left on you.

Sid_Insidious · 2021-02-02T21:53:28+00:00

One of the biggest issues I keep reading about in this sub is men being angry women don't want to go out with them unless the guy is putting in some kind of effort (generally, inviting her to a dinner he pays for).

You're very quick to equate effort with money. So, the "effort" is calling a 5-star restaurant for a reservation?

For me the quality of life I can have as a single woman is higher than the quality of life I could have in a shitty relationship.

You're in exclusive control over whether or not you choose to stay in a shitty relationship though, right? I mean, you make it sound like you have two choices: being single, or shitty relationship. Then by all means. Stay single. (This sounds like female commitment phobia actually - the "all men are assholes" rationalization for preferring single life.)

I now think that I need to free myself from having to deal with the onslaught of men who want to take up my time without wanting to build a relationship with me.

Wow. So, you don't expect that you'll want to build a relationship with every guy you agree to date, but every guy who agrees to date you should be prepared to give you a relationship? Darling that's not how this works. Men may want you more than you want them, but that's not how this works. He also has a choice whether or not he will date you and that can be after three dates or three fucks or three months. Men owe you nothing, despite your glaring sense of entitlement.

If you get the signal that I don't want to date you... I probably don't want to date you.

Yet, if HE does the same thing, HE is wasting YOUR precious time. LOL. Got it.

If I were trying to convince someone to do something for me (like date me, or give me a job or something) I would invite them to a meal. I would be HAPPY to pay for the meal to show the person that I take our relationship seriously and I'm not just trying to use them. If I were bitter about having to do this, that's probably because I am trying to use the other person and not respecting them as another human being.

Let's cut the crap with this already shall we? How many dinners A YEAR for non-dating situations do YOU buy your friends and business associates? Five? And a man might buy same. But, with dating, if a man wants to date twice a month, he needs to shell out for 24 meals and she shells out zero. You women speak about wanting an equal partner in an egalitarian relationship, but you women come into the whole damned thing saying you're simply a higher value human being because you have a vagina and that because he wants you more than you want him, he needs to provide more than you do. ACROSS THE BOARD>

The bottom line is: If a man doesn't make the modern woman's life better in every possible life-satisfaction metric, then he's not even worth having around. And you think just being around HIM makes his life better in every possible life satisfaction metric, and you ,miladies, most certainly DO NOT.

And that's a huge reason why men say "the juice isn't worth the squeeze" when it comes to dating and LTRs. It's this pervasive, cancerous attitude: that he has to bring all this shit to the table and SHE, well SHE is the table.

LOLOLOLOL. Um, no.

TLDR: You sound like a narcissist and I wouldn't buy you a taco.

2021-02-02T21:54:55+00:00

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anonthrow665544 · 2021-02-02T22:00:10+00:00

If a guy had a date with Margot Robbie, he would buy her dinner. Period.

I am not Margot Robbie, but as I know how a guy would treat her, I now have a standard I can look at and see how interested in me the guy is. I can see whether his actions and words are the same, or if, perhaps, he is lying to me about being interested in order to pressure me for sex.

Lets do the male version of this I know if a guy is Brad Pitt they will blow him in the parking lot and let him fuck her in the ass.

I am not Brad Pitt but as I know how a woman would treat him, I now have a standard I can look at and see how interested in me the woman is. I can see whether her actions and words are the same, or if, perhaps, she is lying to me about being interested in order to use my for bank account.

Either your original argument is ridiculous or you should start doing to normal guys what you would do to Brad Pitt. Just because a guy will do X for someone better than you doesn't mean you deserve the same treatment you are not X.

Most dates aren't fun for me. Men pressure for sex. Men fake interest in me and lie about things in order to get sex. Men are generally not nice or pleasant to be around. This is not enjoyable. There are many ways I would rather be spending my time than being lied to and manipulated. I simply am not that interested in going out with any particular guy just to be "dating".

News flash going on dates with most of you women is not fun either dating sucks for both genders. Women do all sorts of stupid stuff like dicking around on your phone half the date, bitch about past boyfriends, etc just like guys do bad stuff on dates. Most women are just plain not pleasant to deal with and the only reason they are tolerated is because of their gender and ability to provide sex that is why they get pumped and dumped.

geyejoe7 · 2021-02-02T22:13:37+00:00

I agree that men should put the effort in, but not that women should just sit by and wait for the right guy.

If the you're dating are mostly THAT bad , to the point where you're almost waiting for them to disappoint you, then the common denominator are you. Not a whole gender.

The women I know don't complain too often about dating trash guys. My close friends are very good at picking good men. That someone they know can vouch for. Not some random hot guy from the club.

If the men they date are shit, they just move on as soon as they find out. But if this keeps happening to you, you need to improve your filter. Clearly.

Then you'd run into men like me. I pay for every date, no questions asked. But my fiancée is always thankful and happy. She doesn't "expect me to pay".

hendrixski · 2021-02-03T05:54:57+00:00

That is not the case for women.

Young women, yes you're absolutely right. However, you should ask a female friend over age 40 what the dating scene is like. Older women have to put in the effort to get the attention of guys.

Susmarshmallow · 2021-02-03T07:15:55+00:00

Are you delusional?

gamerush177 · 2021-02-03T08:00:42+00:00

You’re actually just retarded

LarrBearLV · 2021-02-03T11:59:34+00:00

You seem like fun to be around. 🙄

stuart210 · 2021-02-03T12:12:39+00:00

Spoken like a true lesbian.. Bravo!!

DonQOnIce · 2021-02-02T20:04:14+00:00

I love when men think that women date for a free $30-50 meal. If we were going to sell ourselves, it would be for more than that, dudes.

NotGoingoutofMW · 2021-02-02T19:05:30+00:00

Then lets hope no man ever will ask you out and letting live your awesome life alone. Hoepfully no poor soul will ever find out himself so desperate to jump purposely high placed hoops.

This post reads exactly like the speeches from the nobility back in the day how they pseudo rationalize why the lesser people have to do all the work for them and even be thankful for it while the hardest they do was being pressed out of their mothers womb.

It would be all fine and stuff if women would silently mind their own business but there are already so much women throwing public tantrums around because less and less men are asking them out and that men aren't putting in enough effort into dating them (while this "not enough effort" is still several times higher than their own). It's the same with the pseudo MGTOW's wasting so much energy talking around how women are bad.

OG_walrus · 2021-02-02T19:59:31+00:00

These days I can smell FDS from a mile away. Go back

Uesugi1989 · 2021-02-02T20:52:03+00:00

Paying for woman is a sure way to lose her. You may actually get her but she will lose any sexual attraction for you, so for in the end, you lose. You appear as desperate and needy and that's a sure way for her to not develop a sexual attraction towards you.

Act like you don't give a fuck. Always act like you don't give a fuck.

If we are talking about a coffee or ice cream or even a round of beers, yeah sure treat her, it's not a big deal. Expensive dinners, vacations, trips etc. Absolutely no

ThatGirl50 · 2021-02-02T21:06:29+00:00

Most dates are not fun for you...girl why are you going on them?

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-02-02T18:36:41+00:00

Women should put effort into dates if they actually want to date and show up to said date.

If you're agreeing to go on a date with someone, don't do it because you feel like you still need to be convinced. If you're not interested in someone, then don't agree to go on a date with them. Plain and simple. Its not men's job to convince women while all women do is show up and wait to be impressed. This is exactly what it seems like people do and part of the reason why both sides hate/dislike each other.

Both people should be putting effort into dates or they shouldn't be dating.

Edit: Also, if some random woman is comparing herself to an attractive, desirable woman like Margot Robbie, and then setting a standard for behavior equivalent to how men might treat a literal celebrity who is among the most desirable of women, then she needs a reality check.

Me2Brah · 2021-02-02T19:40:37+00:00

You are not Margot Robbie, and to expect to be treated like her shows how delusional modern day women have become. Enjoy the cats and the boxed wine.

Competitive_Pen2282 · 2021-02-02T20:09:56+00:00

Its not like men ShOuld put effort into to dates, but if they don't they should not be complaining, have aggressive reactions, crying about being lonely and not getting girlfriend.

Kathleen_Chen · 2021-02-02T20:35:18+00:00

It’s unfortunate that men and women’s desire for sex and intimacy is not the same.

OrdinaryYoghurt · 2021-02-02T20:51:41+00:00

For me the quality of life I can have as a single woman is higher than the quality of life I could have in a shitty relationship. A random one night stand with a male partner has only a 11% potential for giving me an orgasm. Of course there's the dream of finding an awesome guy to build a relationship with, but that's so rare. I used to think it was just that you had to give guys "chances" until you met one that you could build a relationship with. I now think that I need to free myself from having to deal with the onslaught of men who want to take up my time without wanting to build a relationship with me. Not only will my quality of life be higher, but I will have the time and energy free to see if I actually do meet anyone who I want to get to know more.

I feel like you can switch the genders here and make the very same argument, especially for your imaginary HVM. He's slept around a bit, but has decided he would rather have something serious. In general, doesn't like casual encounters, so he isn't planning on coercing his date to fuck if they don't want to. He's not desperate and is looking for someone of good moral character to build a life with. Someone who wants to meet in the middle. Someone who isn't going to screw him over, and play games with him. He's definitely had plenty of offers from low quality women, and if he cant find someone of quality, would rather stay single.

Sure, all relationships are going to be transactional, but who would want to be with someone who demands to be compensated from day 1, when you both clearly stand to gain from a healthy relationship. If you think otherwise, then you clearly you think very lowly of the value of your date, because they aren't even worth your time. That's just plain insulting to someone of high value, who knows their worth.

Now you go on a date with this guy, and you blow him off because he wants to see if you're willing to see the date as a shared experience, and expects you as a successful woman to pay your part. Now you've failed his test, and you've lost your HVM. Now, if he's pressuring you for sex on date one, then clearly he's not your type, and you need to do more vetting.

Urbantexasguy · 2021-02-02T21:04:57+00:00

I find the Margot Robbie example interesting. Let's turn things around....think about the male celebrity that you are the most attracted to, or the biggest fan of.

Are you saying, that you wouldn't go to a LOT more trouble, in your dress and preparations, if you were asked out by such a celebrity, than you would, if you were asked out by an "average Joe"? You wouldn't buy a more expensive outfit to wear? You wouldn't drive farther to meet him?

jackandjill22 · 2021-02-02T21:05:49+00:00

Everything you just argued is wrong. & I still won't do that

paladine76a · 2021-02-02T21:14:01+00:00

OP you have a very dark mindset when it comes to dating and men in general. I think for your own mental state you should stay away from dating. Be happy and do you. If men approach send them away. You can't have such a mercenary attitude with dating. It has to be mutual or you are setting yourself up as a commodity to be bought and that's not what real dating is.

Kathleen_Chen · 2021-02-02T21:14:24+00:00

So women would crave sex as much as men if men were more attractive or better lovers?

HODL_monk · 2021-02-02T21:18:29+00:00

Every man you will ever date will be interested in having sex with you, and will pressure you for it, unless its some gay guy pulling a prank on you or some sicko doing a research study. Maybe they want a long term relationship, or maybe not, but physical intimacy will be a primary goal, or they wouldn't be dating you.

Being angry or upset about this won't change anything, and requiring the man pay for everything actually amplifies the pressure for sex, since the man is just out of pocket for just a sliver of your time, if they can't get you to have sex with them.

Perhaps you would be happier with a male pen pal. Then there will be little to no assumption of sexual possibility, and you would have more time to get to know them without this pressure. I'm not being sarcastic, you don't seem to want physical intimacy, or at least not right away, so perhaps dating isn't for you at all, and you will only be disappointed, because your expectations are so far from dating reality.

blissfulbreaths · 2021-02-02T21:29:35+00:00

So, I agree with your main point because I think the gesture is fairly primal to put in appropriate effort to attract a mate. Women are generally more selective and because of that, it usually falls to the men to take on that role but it could equally be said of a woman who makes the first move. I am sorry to hear of your general misery with the opposite sex.. my experience has been that I choose who I date which means I should at least like the individual I'm spending my time with and even if the sparks don't fly, maybe entirely selfishly, I make the most of the situation. I don't feel pressured for sex because I am comfortable with my boundaries and choices. This is a pretty interesting take... I didn't realize women considered themselves so miserable at the hands of situations they theoretically consented to 🤷‍♀️

Kathleen_Chen · 2021-02-02T21:35:01+00:00

You talk about culture but don’t have we have to understand sex is terms of biology more than culture?

revente · 2021-02-02T21:53:47+00:00

BS, my gf is Margot Robbie tier and i didn't buy her shit when we've started to date.

I make a mean breafast tho.

Kathleen_Chen · 2021-02-02T21:54:12+00:00

You said that men are culturally trained to be selfish lovers but does biology come into play any way I digress.. I’ll only say I still believe men desire sex more than women generally.

Kathleen_Chen · 2021-02-02T22:13:49+00:00

Well I took a psychology course that set out that men and women’s sexual/reproductive behavior was different. And men and women’s reproductive/sexual organs are different. I can’t site a paper immediately but perhaps if you give me time.

ABlueParrot · 2021-02-02T22:25:29+00:00

So, let me get it straight:

For you, going on a date is a chore, a job, something you don't enjoy and only do when you are motivated, mostly by economical gain.

Well, if your mindset of the world is that you keep company to men as a chore, in exchange for economic compensation, maybe it's not so surprising that you are often pressured for sex.

Tim_234 · 2021-02-02T22:42:05+00:00

So lemme recap real quick. You don't want to pay for dates because the men want to be with you but you don't want to be with them. If you liked the man you would pay. But you also only wanna go on dates with men you want something from. Am I missing something here or does this not make any sense?

Skadi793 · 2021-02-02T23:07:01+00:00

Dating for me was vetting

I would typically meet a girl for coffee or ice cream, and if things went well, we would go on a more formal date. I always paid, and she never saw the check (making the girl pay for early dates, or going dutch is tacky asf, and there is nothing worse than being seen as a cheapskate who can't afford to take women out)

I wanted to see the girl dressed well, preferably in a nice dress. I wanted to see her social graces and ability to compose herself in a high-class setting. Leisurely conversations over wine about art, music, literature, etc. --I wanted to see how cultured and interesting she was

I never thought about "impressing" a girl, or considered dating "work". I was plenty charming, dressed well, had enough money to throw around, etc. It was all about evaluating her

nomadunkown · 2021-02-02T23:35:48+00:00

You are inundated with offers for casual sex.

You are not inundated by offers of relationships with quality guys.

Don’t mistake one for the other. There’s not a lot of correlation.

icarusdionysus · 2021-02-02T23:58:26+00:00

As a guy, I think your views are totally fine. Whatever way you feel you need to vet a guy is totally justified. The power dynamics between men and woman are asymmetric and I think if this is a simple filter so be it. Totally reasonable and understandable. I would have no problem being vetted like this.

icarusdionysus · 2021-02-03T00:02:28+00:00

I would say this to a man or a woman. Your attitude stinks and most men or most women think this why. I’m not going to stalk your post history but I feel that you spent way too much time on the Reddit gender wars subs, although I could be wrong. I recommend a round of magic mushrooms out in nature along with some animal meditation to help you appreciate the moments of life more. You can find animal meditations on apple podcasts or I can send a link. I hope you can change your view for your own sake though, this isn’t a good way to live.

hih_h · 2021-02-03T00:07:27+00:00

Lol it seems to me you're always one of the 2 people on a date and it just happens to be the only recurring character in the dates is your majesty and it's always been a chore and unhappy...... I wonder why 🤔

icarusdionysus · 2021-02-03T00:10:47+00:00

And any man who is worth anything already knows this. Most decent guys (I hope) would move heaven and earth to be with a woman they want. Women naturally want to feel that desired and valued. Paying for dinner is (literally)a very small price to pay to demonstrate that

wrekd · 2021-02-03T02:47:24+00:00

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Findingthur · 2021-02-03T03:08:05+00:00

first point is wrong. the advice for men is to never pay for dates

Prollywonteatyou · 2021-02-03T03:41:13+00:00

Effort should not be placed solely on one party, your position is so damned entitled that it feels like its shouting from its balcony in the gated community to the peasants on the other side of the shrubbery wall. We have been scraping and pushing for proper equality for years and here you come spouting this crap. Mature. Grow. If you don't want to date that person but go anyway you are faking interest in an effort to get a meal/attention. Maybe, just maybe, meet him halfway. Show you are someone who stands on your own and is looking for someone to stand beside you rather than carry you. Split it on the first date, ALWAYS. It shows you are serious about being self-reliant but also shows you hope to find someone who can stand on their own too. Right now it sounds like you can't stand on your own.

Ok_Swim_2691 · 2021-02-03T03:57:40+00:00

Unapologetically LVM here

You are not Margot Robbie.
If I were Christ Hemsworth, Jason Momoa, a male K-Pop star or whoever rocks your boat, your expectations, boundaries and red flag radar would fly out the window as they have so many times before.

Thus, we're at an impassé. You're not the most beautiful woman in the world, and I'm not the most beautiful man in the world. You weigh your pros and cons, I weigh mine.

No one forces you to go on dates. Just stay home, it ain't that difficult. It'll be better for both of us.
See 3. If I have to walk around eggshells to prove your insecurities wrong, I ain't getting my Jason Momoa treatment either.
You're wasting your time, I'd waste my time, effort and money by going through this vetting gauntlet of yours. Just stay single.
You are bitter about this. Just stay single.
We don't need to invest heavily into anyone but ourselves to get sex. We don't need your help. Just stay single.
Did you know being single, "leveling up" and taking care of our finances is the default state of being for men? And we're not "Kings" or hold a chip on our shoulder because of it?

Don't drop your crown ladies, your prince charming is just around the corner, maybe.

Matt_the_Alien · 2021-02-03T04:18:10+00:00

I don’t think your unhealthy relationships are because of guys, or even the guys you’re dating. Food for thought

ViciousDextroShade · 2021-02-03T04:35:42+00:00

You sound like an entitled gold digger who is going to die alone and miserable and be eaten by her cats.

murfreesbro · 2021-02-03T07:03:55+00:00

Relationships are mutual, 50/50. If one side puts more effort than the other, it is doomed for failure. You sound like you have not found the right guy, keep trying or expand your geography (the place where you live may not have quality men?)

You are effectively building a 2 person team for life. If that mutual understanding and trust has been established, then the relationship should be easier and fun from that point on.

401kisfun · 2021-02-03T07:55:06+00:00

The OP makes some extremely powerful assumptions. 99% of the girls who flaked on me/ghosted me after acting really interested to go on a date were girls I were excited to see purely just to go on a date. It’s so weird and I bet $1 million she has stood up guys who acted exactly the way she is preaching. I never reall thought about getting dates to fuck, but go on a real date, possibly her into a relationship. Pick her up maybe, meet her there, dress Good, talk etc. I never did that because I was never given the chance. My brain never went to what would it be like to fuck this girl. And the more I read and heard about Girls talk about that’s all guys want the sicker I got of hearing it. Girls flake on guys who are happy to buy them dinner and nothing more. All. The. Time.

sharp-objects · 2021-02-03T10:17:25+00:00

OP is just a narcissist and that's that

2021-02-03T11:30:07+00:00

Men shouldn’t put effort into dates because they want sex, not to meet women. Women deserve equal rights, but getting them means that men are fools to marry. Save your money and get a call girl when you can afford it. Don’t get married:

Every woman marries a man thinking she can change him, but she can’t. Every man marries a woman thinking she’ll never change, but she does.

TherealAsderei · 2021-02-03T11:49:14+00:00

Don’t expect to be treated like Margot Robbie if you aren’t Margot Robbie. I don’t go on dates and expect the woman to treat me like I’m Harry Styles.

Also don’t go on dates with assholes. It’s easy to see when someone just wants sex. And if you really want an equal date meet him halfway and split the meal.

OGSuperFreak69 · 2021-02-03T11:55:08+00:00

Maybe wrong pool your swimming at?

what-account · 2021-02-03T23:37:21+00:00

No ❤️

2021-02-02T19:43:10+00:00

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huhuhuhuh11 · 2021-02-02T19:24:35+00:00

Supply and demand right? Men want women way more than women want men.

Also love how some men cry about equality and demand women pay for half the date, rent, bills etc yet these same men aren’t demanding they do half the cleaning, cooking, childcare, homecaring, etc.

Want ya cake.

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-02-02T20:15:42+00:00

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avidmoviegoer44 · 2021-02-02T22:28:32+00:00

Why do you believe that every guy you run into wants to have sex with you?

Lots of men (if not the majority of men, whether you like it or not) are reasonable and sensible.

I wouldn’t touch you with a ten foot pole after getting to know you. Listening to all this hate speech is a big turn off!

AutoModerator · 2021-02-02T18:22:51+00:00

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AbnormalBias · 2021-02-02T22:28:54+00:00

Not every woman wants an absolutely perfect relationship as a prerequisite for sex.

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-02-02T18:28:48+00:00

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IcarusKiki · 2021-02-02T19:30:40+00:00

In general I expect men to pay for the first date since it shows he’s invested in me and isn’t trying to just get cheap pussy. Afterwards going Dutch is fine as I always offer and at that point I’m interested in him.

Counter_Proposition · 2021-02-02T20:03:36+00:00

Also, your estimation of "all men just want sex" is vastly oversimplified. All corgis are dogs, but not all dogs are corgis. Yes, practically all men want sex, but that is not ALL we want! Trust and believe, if that's all you have to offer the relationship will be very short-lived.

quesoburgesa · 2021-02-02T22:41:06+00:00

You set your standard how a man would treat a beautiful celebrity within the same sentence acknowledging you aren’t on par with her, this is why men have problems with women: the entitlement

icarusdionysus · 2021-02-03T00:02:56+00:00

And to be honest any man who is truly comfortable in his own skin would naturally understand the need for a woman to do this. You’re not asking for the moon

AutoModerator · 2021-02-02T18:22:51+00:00

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Mrs_Drgree · 2021-02-02T19:27:09+00:00

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badgersonice · 2021-02-02T20:59:28+00:00

Eh, I preferred to, at a minimum, offer seriously to go Dutch, because it maybe helps filter out the guys who feel like they’re owed something if they pay. Plenty of guys would still be insistent on paying anyways, and I’d accept after some insistence because it’s gracious to accept kindness from others, and not worth putting your foot down on this either— some guys were just raised that it’s wrong to let a woman pay, and that’s not a deal breaker, just a culture thing. But yeah, me paying half seems just kinda reasonable? Like, it’s just a single date, not some kind of one-upmanship power play. Not sure why everyone here is so uptight about what’s often very little money. It really doesn’t have to mean much in a first date.

There are much better ways to see if someone actually likes you for a relationship, like seeing how they interact with you and how you click together. If you don’t want to feel used, just... don’t do things that would make you feel used. Go on a few dates, and if he seems like he’s not into you, or you’re not into him, it’s not gonna happen and that’s fine.

2021-02-02T21:00:49+00:00

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AreOut · 2021-02-02T21:16:52+00:00

"If a guy had a date with Margot Robbie, he would buy her dinner. Period."

umm no, I've met couple of celebrities and didn't really feel good around them(a lot of narcissism and negative energy), also women are longing for famous men waaay more than vice versa so I guess more guys would rather date normal and funny girl regardless of her social status (yes there are celebrities who are down to Earth but those are rare)

Rolando_Cueva · 2021-02-02T22:27:53+00:00

Sex is overrated anyways, I don’t get why my fellow men make it such a big deal.

2021-02-02T22:57:05+00:00

Boom goes the dynamite. If a dude won't pay for dinner he does not get a second date. It's not that complicated. Y'all can hold out but there are other men who will step up lol

bd31 · 2021-02-02T22:58:06+00:00

If you're making an effort, you're not being yourself.

SteveSan82 · 2021-02-02T23:00:42+00:00

I got better results just having coffee dates. Dinner dates are not for high notch count hos

goatismycopilot · 2021-02-02T23:12:03+00:00

I think you would enjoy dating more when you did do it if you worried way less about what men want. It doesn't matter what they want. Sure they can try and pressure you into sex but it isn't like they are going to attack you in a restaurant. Just ignore them when they invent the very stupid excuse to go to your place or or their place it is alway something my rock collection, my amazing view from my amazing balcony in my amazing condo.

If there is a restuarant you are dying to try for some reason and somebody invites you could could just go and enjoy the whole experience and just give zero thought to whatever the fuck it is somebody else wants.

I think when women get frustruated with dating it is because they frame their experience based on whatever they think the other person has going on instea dof framing their experience in terms of I would enjoy this experience/place/thing.

Men aren't changing any time soon and they have not really for the last billion years and of course they are annoying and predictable in many ways so if you were ever to plan enjoying dating it might require a change of perspective.

alex_theKat · 2021-02-02T23:15:02+00:00

The way you present your argument is you date for a price. Isn’t that an escort?

Even in the case of escorts there are a huge variety. Some are very high level, others have a good level, others are affordable, and others can, maybe, be streetwalkers.

Are you comparing apples with pineapples just because both contain apple in their name?

Be careful with what you want, you may find it and not like it

loudbeat69 · 2021-02-02T23:30:42+00:00

It's funny cause post like this are the reason most Men just CBF with dating or won't pay for dates anymore.

OP seems like the type of women who you would you pay for everything on the date, do everything right but still get a not interested sorry, but thanks for the meal though.

Some of the things OP has written are both contradictory and nonsensical.

" I think it's weird men both want women to go on dates they don't want to go on, and they want women to pay for wasting their own time. "

Then don't go on the date if you're not interested in the guy. It's not that hard, especially if you think it's a chore and a waste of you're time.

What you are poorly trying to imply as "he is only trying to buy sex and is wasting my time" could be very easily be seen as him thinking " gee I hope she likes me, I'm doing my best to impress her", all the while you are wasting his time.

Your playing the victim card on points which are so stupid it's bordering on childlike.

" We are not desperate for opportunities to meet men. Meeting men is a chore. "

Then for the sanity of all Men and the greater good of the gene pool please take yourself of the dating market.

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-02-02T23:52:41+00:00

The logic being that good men have to pay for bad men's behaviour.

That's the heirarchy.

MuntherThaGunther · 2021-02-03T00:01:18+00:00

what's your body count

Mobrowncheeks · 2021-02-03T00:02:09+00:00

This post basically says, be the way I want you to be, which is fine, but there’s no real authentic relationship in that. And that will manifest its self in every situation you get in where this ideology is the basis, whether it’s dating a guy who is so interested in you that he has to act out of character to try to appease you, or it’s a guy who worked so hard so that he can afford to appease any women, yet alone you specifically, in the end it will always be a performance, and not true

icefire54 · 2021-02-03T00:31:09+00:00

The solution to this is to tell desperate men to stop putting up with parasitic and abusive women and get some self respect, not "you are desperate so put up with terrible women lol". We don't say that to women so I don't see why we should say this to men.

Most dates aren't fun for me.

Welcome to the male club.

Men pressure for sex.

"A total of 43 percent of high school boys and young college men reported they had an unwanted sexual experience and of those, 95 percent said a female acquaintance was the aggressor, according to a study published online in the APA journal Psychology of Men and Masculinity."

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/coerced-sex

and there's this:

http://removeddit.com/r/UnpopularFacts/comments/fr5pp3/women_rape_men_at_similar_rates_as_the_reverse/

Not to mention women also pressure for resources as well.

Men fake interest in me and lie about things in order to get sex.

From the above study, a significant amount of women do that too. They also fake interest and lie to get resources, lie about birth control in order to get child support (which is rape btw).

Women commit more domestic violence against their male partners.

https://stevemoxon.co.uk/how-and-why-partner-violence-is-normal-female-behaviour-but-aberrational-male-behaviour/

https://stevemoxon.co.uk/partner-violence-mostly-by-women/

https://stevemoxon.co.uk/partner-violence-femalepredominant-aetiology/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtIAI48TKVQ

Men already have given women way more benefits to women than they could ever repay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Yn3i-DMKw

https://www.eurocanadian.ca/2020/07/white-men-responsible-for-almost-all-greatest-achievements.html

So your view of things is quite distorted to say the least. If anything, women should be paying men for all that they've done for them. Although I'll settle for women to just treat us like people instead of garbage.

cloudydays84 · 2021-02-03T00:47:53+00:00

We are not desperate for opportunities to meet men. Meeting men is a chore.

Then stop doing it

I think it's weird men both want women to go on dates they don't want to go on,

Then don't go on the dates

If you aren't sure if you want to date me, get to know me outside of dating.

Then stop going on dates

If you get the signal that I don't want to date you... I probably don't want to date you.

Then why are you going on the date

But as someone who doesn't want to have sex outside of a committed, monogamous relationship,

Then don't

(As a side not you write very similarly to another user here that would always talk about being "forced" to go out and interact with men on dates when she just preferred to talk first, who i ended up saying pretty much the exact same thing to. Whether you are her or not it seems that you've come to this conclusion so +1 for character development)

pillchangedmylife · 2021-02-03T00:49:25+00:00

Shes not talking about you average joe. Shes talking about Cristiano Ronaldo and Brad Pitt dropping everything for her

SnooAvocados2224 · 2021-02-03T00:51:21+00:00

The solution for a lot of men is much simpler and much more straightforward. If you want sex, stop trying to find roundabout ways of getting it. If you want to have sex you have to turn yourself into someone women want FOR SEX.

Women have so many awful experiences and so many men are awful in bed that you don't even need to be that amazing to have many women be incredibly eager to engage in a casual relationship with you. Will you get sex-negative prudes? No of course not. But, you will get one of the countless attractive women that is dying for some good dick in a world that's not giving it to her.

I can't even begin to tell the number of times I felt like I wasn't on top of my game and I was mediocre in bed at best, only to then hear the girl tell me I was the best she's ever had.

The only reason you'd think men would need to buy dinner as a proof of their commitment to you is if you, as a woman, see sex as something you give away for a man's benefit. I think that's a ridiculously toxic way of looking at thislngs and it will help you attract sexually inept men.

The men that are experienced enough to be good in bed don't need to buy women dinners to get sex because they get sex simply because women want to have sex with them because the sex is that good. By having this mindset you're literally removing from from your dating pool all the men that are good in bed.

Western_Hornet · 2021-02-03T01:00:51+00:00

If you’re of such high quality then pick a higher quality man to go on a date with, if you’re going on a bunch of dates with people and you come across as bored and finding it a chore then they shouldn’t have to work for you either.

You seem to expect men to put in all this effort because you’re so awesome, but you haven’t got a high value male that you’re happy and settled with.

I don’t care how much you earn and how comfortable you are, if you’ve got it that good then you wouldn’t be on a date with a deadbeat anyway apparently. If you pulled that attitude with any decent guy he’d get up and leave by your damn self.

NakedlyStripped · 2021-02-03T01:01:05+00:00

It's simple. Is a girl interested in getting to know ME? Or only what I can provide? That's why men these days aren't for extravagant first (couple) of dates. We aren't walking wallets. What does a girl offer to us too in order to just spend money on dates?

hesipullupjimbo445 · 2021-02-03T01:06:46+00:00

If I have to convince someone to date me the relationship that could ensue is going to be a mess. You say meeting and dating men is a chore yet it seems you still date and meet them, at least up until recently. You know what’s a chore for guys? Texting women in the hopes that eventually a date could be planned. During this time women are vetting the guy while he is just trying to get his foot in the door. If a date ensues he gets an hour or two to vet . This is while he pays for everything and also has to keep a convo up so he can improve his chances of a second date. This whole experience suck for men but women rarely hear about it because men rarely ever get that far. You mentioned that you don’t leave your house unless you know he wants to have a pleasant experience( he pays, no sex). So any man that has gone on a date with you has had to go through the chore that is texting to plan a date. Your stance on dating sounds extremely privileged and entitled. You said yourself your not Margot Robbie yet you expect to be treated like her. This is setting you up for disappointment. It seems like you’ll be damned if you go on a date with anyone that isn’t a 9 or 10 unless he’s a betabux. What can I say the wall is undefeated.

yeet20feet · 2021-02-03T01:06:57+00:00

i’ll pay for the first few dates but if we still goin strong imma expect her to go halfway or summ unless i’m feeling generous

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-02-03T01:11:49+00:00

Have women who post this never met an interesting person?

bigdaveyl · 2021-02-03T03:07:07+00:00

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OldSimpsonsisbetter · 2021-02-03T03:38:34+00:00

Most dates aren't fun for me. Men pressure for sex. Men fake interest in me and lie about things in order to get sex. Men are generally not nice or pleasant to be around. This is not enjoyable. There are many ways I would rather be spending my time than being lied to and manipulated. I simply am not that interested in going out with any particular guy just to be "dating".

Don't go on dates then? If you hate them that much, probably best not to go on them.

FrivolousMood · 2021-02-03T04:19:28+00:00

You are fortunate to have little to zero sex drive. What a luxury that must be when it comes to dating!

Pi11sy · 2021-02-03T05:54:01+00:00

Why don't you put more effort into dates

343-guilty-mendicant · 2021-02-03T15:11:36+00:00

Shit like this and people like you are why men are choosing to say single, dating is just not worth the effort or the risk anymore.

ElCostosHombre · 2021-02-03T15:12:12+00:00

Then why even meet a man you don't want to date? Christ above help me

ArguTobi · 2021-02-03T15:43:03+00:00

If a guy had a date with Margot Robbie, he would buy her dinner. Period.

No, I don't pay for dinner if my date expects me to. I don't care if it's Margot Robbie, young Megan Fox or anyone else.

I am not Margot Robbie, but as I know how a guy would treat her, I now have a standard I can look at and see how interested in me the guy is. I can see whether his actions and words are the same, or if, perhaps, he is lying to me about being interested in order to pressure me for sex.

Look at No. 1.

Most dates aren't fun for me. Men pressure for sex. Men fake interest in me and lie about things in order to get sex. Men are generally not nice or pleasant to be around. This is not enjoyable. There are many ways I would rather be spending my time than being lied to and manipulated. I simply am not that interested in going out with any particular guy just to be "dating".

Then don't.

Unless I have an assurance that the guy is actually into me and is interested in having a pleasant experience with me (not just getting me alone to corner me and pressure for sex) I'm not leaving my house.

It's fine.

We are not desperate for opportunities to meet men. Meeting men is a chore.

Then don't mean them. If a woman would think that of me, I'm far better of not meeting her at all.

I think it's weird men both want women to go on dates they don't want to go on, and they want women to pay for wasting their own time.

See my last point.

Overall your post is mostly ranting how hard it is to date men and that is a chore for you and that you are far better of without men. Kinda a double-standard you realize that?

Also if that's your honest opinion, no men with self-respect is going to date you after knowing that. Decent men want to date decent woman. If you want to be put on a pedestal by a man, expect him to pay and think that he is a chore for you - you ain't gonna meet a decent men, because they are gone before it comes to dating you.

Relationships mean equality, if someone can't provide this from the start why should he/she change later on?

Snackasm · 2021-02-03T16:02:21+00:00

As a guy I'll go on a date with who I'm attracted to, sure I would love a date with Margot Robbie but then again people in hell sure would love some ice water.

2021-02-03T17:05:18+00:00

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Bad_Routes · 2021-02-03T17:33:22+00:00

This is the worst reasoning I've seen.

thatxsingh · 2021-02-03T23:52:33+00:00

Lol karen

2021-02-07T15:18:14+00:00

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2021-02-10T03:13:45+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	CMV: Men should put effort into dates because they want to meet women more than women want to meet them
Author	alwaysonalongtrip
Upvotes	0
Comments	1433
Date	February 2, 2021 6:22 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/lb2jn4/cmv_men_should_put_effort_into_dates_because_they/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-men-should-put-effort-into-dates-because-they.744083 https://theredarchive.com/post/744083

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