Weekly Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2021-05-10T20:00:13+00:00

This weekly thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc......

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It was MEN receiving anal sex in those cultures.

Yeah... no. It's not often I get to flex my anthro major so this might be long-winded.

Do you think anal sex was included in WOMEN'S "wifely duty"?

Yes, plenty of early cultures had significant instances of anal sex occurring between men and women especially couples. Anal sex has been around since time immemorial and was often done expressly because two people wanted to have sex without the risk of pregnancy.

For example, the Moche of Peru and Ancient Babylonians were known to have anal sex with their female partners just as much as their male ones (in the case of the former a lot of the physical artifacts left over from their culture only contain anal sex being depicted, depictions of vaginal sex is actually severely underrepresented).

I don't know much about early and pre-victorian Japan, but even early Japanese history and art depict anal sex between men and women as well as men with men. (u/xQueen-Bx you probably know more about early Japan than me, can you verify or did you ignore the degenerate parts to the culture/history?)

Men, with prostates to make it pleasurable

As a proud owner of a prostate and someone that's experienced anal sex the idea that anal sex is just inherently pleasurable because a person has a prostate is with all due respect kinda myopic. Equally as myopic is assuming that lack of a prostate just makes anal sex inherently unplesurable.

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The whole anti-porn sentiment is just another way for women to flex their power over men. Men obviously need porn more than women do, so this creates a power imbalance women move in to exploit - as they always do.

Now, women can't ban porn outright because they sometimes use it too, but they will do their damnest to shame any man using it because they lose nothing by doing it; and being women, they mostly apply soft pressure with gaslighting and concern trolling: "Porn makes you impotent" "Porn creates unrealistic expectations" "Porn is human trafficking" etc. Hell, I even suspect No Nut November meme(which supposedly is to be an exercise in male self control) is an offshot of this. And remember that whole "Bonk" thing? Gee, I wonder where did THAT come from...

#justsocietythings. You're not going to change anyone's mind, all you can do is Keep Calm and Jack Off.

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Are they meant to dump him for a balding guy when he seems to be retaining his hair?

Well that would certainly be a welcome change and an inverse to how it currently plays out but, no I don't expect that.

I just think it's an interesting pattern when the women who say height, hairline, dick size ect don't matter just happen to be dating or fucking a guy who is conventionally desirable in all/most of those categories or when most of the guys they dated previously were conventionally desirable in those categories. It just doesn't carry as much weight if you've never dated one or you did but you dumped him.

It also seems common for women to have a story like "I used to give guys who were short or bald or had a small/average dick a chance but they were awful partners and now that I date tall, well endowed hot men my life is so much better and my relationships are more fulfilling and they treat me better"

So even when women have dated short or bald or small/average dicked men they correlate negative personality traits with the negative physical traits and talk about dating them like it was a mistake or learning experience that shouldn't be repeated.

So no, don't dump the tall well endowed perfect hair guys but don't say those things aren't very important. Stop being so fake and giving empty encouragement. Say nothing or hell just be honest. Even the FDS women who go out of their way to be as insulting as possible are better than the women who lie and say those traits aren't extremely important.

They never are hung like a horse though

According to FDS they are

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I’ve seen Some women will say they dated an “ugly“ guy and he still cheated on them with other women. “See it’s no different with ugly Guys as it is with the hot guys”

I’m going to let you in on a little secret

whispers in ear

If your BF is fucking 4 different girls in addition to you chances are he’s not nearly as “ugly” as you claim online 🤣. Most men will NEVER have a roster, they’ll NEVER be sleeping with multiple women at one time. More than likely he’s average or slightly above average and your downplaying his looks to seem more virtuous online.

The only legit “ugly” guys I’ve known in my life who’ve had MULTIPLE women they were sleeping with it at a time had some amazing other attribute. They were either financially well off, some type of MASSIVE social dominance/clout, or were slumming it with other equally bottom tier chicks.

For example, Rebecca tells you her “ugly” BF was caught having a threesome with 2 other girls. What Rebecca is NOT telling you is that her “ugly” BF is one of the leaders the biggest frat in campus who sets up the hottest parties in school. She kinda left that part out.

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no my ugly ex just cheated on me the first time he got an opportunity to, and the girl was quite mannish (everyone thought she was gay, even his gay cousin). if anything, it just highlights that he really is ugly lmfaooooo. the only chick he could manage to cheat on me with was a sexually confused stud and he’s been single since i left him as far as i know.

he did have a great personality and nice style though, i’ll give him that.

on the bright side, it makes me feel better to know i’m still the best he could do.

i can agree though, if a guy can manage to sleep around like that then he‘s probably not that ugly.

there are exceptions though. i know a girl who’s quite cute, and her bf is fat, ugly, and abusive. has been cheating on her for years, and she knows. she still pays the rent for their apartment and is the only one who does any domestic work between the two of them. what that dude does with his time and money, who knows? probably spends it on his side chicks. and no, he’s not rich.

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okay, i see what you mean now. yeah, it wasn’t like that in my case. in the other girl’s case, i think she just doesn’t believe she can do better than that guy. i could maybe understand if dude was hot or rich (cuz some women will accept that) but he is the complete opposite, on top of being a sleazeball.

i don’t think my ex was disgustingly ugly, but he was ugly enough to where people would just straight up tell me he was ugly and ask why i chose him when i could do so much better. turns out those people were right lmfaoooooo. he did have a great personality though, dude was eccentric but really funny and fun to be around. a good conversationalist too, we could talk about literally anything.

i just had really low standards at the time tbh. he fit the only standards i had: be nice to me and make me feel good.

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Like honestly when was the last time you went outside your house and saw a guy who was disgustingly ugly?

recently, actually. they’re one of the very few people i know who fit that description. i don’t usually see disgustingly ugly strangers though, i’m not sure if it’s because i don’t really pay attention to strangers enough to notice or if i really do have very low physical standards lol.

I’ve always told guys shoot your shot because you never know. On paper it could look like you and a girl could never be together but that’s not reality. In Your case there were probably other guys around you who were nice and could make you feel good but he was the only one who made the attempt. That’s why he got laid and everyone else didn’t

you’re pretty spot on with this. he asked me out and told me he had serious intentions before any of the other guys i was talking to did.

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It’s just understanding systems and how they affect other systems and sub-systems and umbrella-systems and meta-systems. At least when it comes to race/ethnicity.

A step further is “intersectional analysis” which is less about race and more how everything affects everything sociologically/relationally.

What it does is highlight uncomfortable realities which seems to freak people out. The ppl who hate it seem to interpret that as, “omg everyone is a victim then huh????”

And it’s like. Sure I guess. Everyone is an “exploiter” too. Everyone is everything. That’s how systems and existing works. And yeah some people’s intersections mean they are probably more exploited than most or more of an exploiter than most.

The ppl who react so shrilly just don’t like to ever think about the moments where they’re the exploiter. Oh well. C’est la vie.

We do it all day everyday with relationships on this sub but suddenly doing it holistically is when it’s too hard. I guess. Look at it as a “life red pill” then.

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They should teach slavery, in history class!

If you want to teach kids all of them are inherently bias from birth but also add in slavery but not issue other races implicit biases have caused then you're not teaching implicit biases with an even hand.

You're saying all of you have biases but here's the history of white bias and how terrible it is! Did other races have terrible actions due to racial biases? Who knows!? We don't teach that!

Leaves the idea on children that they and their families implicit bias is different or worse than other races.

This is very simple a+b=c

Telling kids all have bias (a) plus only telling them the horrible stuff white people have historically done (b) creates a lesson where you teach them that white people's biases are worse than others.

This leads to the concept that white people are all inherently racist.

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Women have many frustrations to put up with. I could riff on about how many chicks in my life thought even my basic effort in mutually pleasing them was a myth. It's happened enough for me to understand men have much more room to grow as well.

Nevertheless, the reason why relationships are breaking down right now is that the last driving factor was critically eroded. This is men's motivation to take the benefit of the doubt.

The same logic that wired male ethics is the same force that is forcing men to resist. We used to be cavemen, but we learned to cooperate. We established institutions such as marriage because it alligned for our greater purpose, and women's overall values and happiness for the most part.

Culturally, western women's response is not only ungrateful, it's ruthless. Alone that's okay, men sacrificed because we do love women and believe they are wonderful. We accept their social demands in our paradigm of patriarchal civilization. Despite our ability to conquer women, we value peace and want to live in that.

That's the ritual significance behind bending down on one knee when proposing matrimony. It's a demonstration that, despite our power and capability of evil, we surrender to you.

Women have to be mindful of this if they still value men and humanity's growth. If they do, I have suggestions

[–]NarniaFox3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]goneaway2thewind3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think you assign a wrong cause to these changes. Our societies overall have become far more individualistic and it affected both men and women. The value of marriage and LTRs have diminished because people, both men and women, were taught that they can be happy on their own.

Society doesn't want men happy on their own. Expectations are still the provider or loser binary options for the 80%.

I always find it amusing that men list it as something...worthy of praise? Thanks for not raping and killing us, I guess?

We are slightly sophisticated wild animals. 99% of Men showing that level of disciplined composure despite our urges is worth appreciating.

Some guys do step out of line and harm women. The vast majority of us won't tolerate it to the point of beating the shit out of the guy on the spot.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It's harder for men, because there've never been a massive push against their gender role. Women have feminism, men don't have anything that is that strong and popular. I do think that men should push against their gender role and expectations too.

Things change slowly though even without it.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/20/americans-see-men-as-the-financial-providers-even-as-womens-contributions-grow/

There are ~30% of women who don't think that it's important for a man be able to support their family financially. And it's from 2017, I'd expect things to be a bit better now, although covid might have screwed it. There are also 30% of households that have outearning wives and no, it doesn't increase risks of divorce.

We are slightly sophisticated wild animals.

And not animals practice rape, you know. Plus, we've been living in a more or less civilized societies long enough to make it seem as basic human behavior. You don't get praised for not shitting yourself.

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Yea most people are working class in your definition. If you have to work to live you are working class sure. Why would I dispute that ? I personally tell ppl that all the time.

But the understanding of “working class” for most people is the following:

the socioeconomic group consisting of people who are employed in manual or industrial work. "he came from the working class"

It is synonymous with “blue collar” to most.

So my original point, minus your snark, “sorry y’all” lol, is that “blue collar” folk partner with other blue collar folk.

Ppl tend to partner within the SES they were raised within. Even ppl who were born in working class families (both parents teachers) and then went to Harvard so now they’re both doctors or policy talking heads... if they marry each other, they are of the same background and aspirations.

A larger point is that most Americans are a missed pay check or few away from the shelter/less fortunate living.

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I missed the convo where nurses and teachers were viewed as “high status.”

I think if a person is from a UMC+ background (grew up well off) and chooses to be a nurse, teacher, artist, dancer, underpaid associate professor, bartender, etc. Then that person is still UMC if they still have access to that UMC network, support, money. Meaning push come to shove, they could be parachuted out of their circumstances by a benevolent aunt with a trustfund or extra home. Or if someone they know can quickly get them a job at publisher or investment bank, then they are still UMC+ IMO despite working at some esoteric bookstore.

Furthermore, status is all perception. So it’s about how you comport and how you’re perceived by the ppl that matter in that inner network... in the larger network... in the larger larger network... etc. If the guy who owns his own contracting business presents well he may come off high status. If he presents like a pub dweller ppl will think that.

Maybe the nurses or teachers came off more refined or whatever than this construction business owner. I’m not saying that’s fair to judge. But ppl do.

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I think most of the women here aren’t working class (I suspect working class women mostly aren’t into reddit gender war stuff, and do more of some other social media, like Facebook or insta maybe? Or maybe nothing I don’t know), and most people don’t marry far outside their own class.

If I were single, I wouldn’t marry a working class guy partly because I probably wouldn’t meet him or relate well to him, but also partly because he’d feel the same way about me. It’s also likely he’d have zero interest in me as a woman he’d most likely consider me a frigid liberal idiotic bitch. He’d likely consider me completely undesirable. We’d both have to put on a show for each other’s families to fit in at reunions.

Also I’m not particularly beautiful, so not worth the effort of crossing class boundaries. Working class guys never expressed interest in me.

Working class men are marrying working class women mostly. They are more likely to share similar cultural touchstones, moral values, etc, plus more likely to socialize in the first place.

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I criticize those who automatically think their salary job makes them better than others.

I hope you will notice that is absolutely NOT what I did in my comment, and if that's what you got, then you read it wrong. Get the chip off your shoulder, please.

I certainly don't think I'm "better" than blue collar men in general (although of course I'm better than some people in any class, lol. Some people of every class are just awful, and I'm not awful). I simply think we wouldn't meet often and are usually incompatible in terms of dating. And they wouldn't want me in return either. Likewise, I don't want to marry into the ultra-wealthy class-- I have no interest in faking my personality to live up to their bizarre expectations. That doesn't mean I think they're "better" than me, or that I'm "better" than them.

And it's weird you frame blue collar men as if they are somehow begging for white collar women, and never have any preferences in what kind of women they actually want to date! Honestly, the men here are the ones constantly harping on about how they're so much better than women with educations or salaries or careers, and how women with careers are all uniformly stupid for working for pay instead of being "more feminine" or marrying at 18 or whatever. Do you ever criticize the many men here who automatically think they're better than the women in... well, any place in life?

I’ve met intelligent men and really dumb men in both fields

Yup. And also moral and immoral in both, etc etc. Even strong vs weak in both-- there's some blue collar jobs that you can be flabby in for sure.

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There is more to class than just working class, self-employed, and wealthy. I simply mean that people tend to subdivide into groups with similar values, goals, vibes, whatever you want to call it.

Having a low status salary white collar job doesn't mean they are compatible: plenty of men in "useful" blue collar jobs do not respect a woman working in a boring pencil-pusher type office job. They often want a woman who does a job they view as "useful" like teaching or nursing, hence the stereotype of cops marrying nurses. They tend to think women who do, say, data entry, bookkeeping, editing, HR etc type jobs are just useless, conned office drones who think they're better than good, hardworking men.

You said it here yourself later: you criticize women who think their salary job makes them "better" than blue collar men. The men who criticize women for that automatically... are the men who think they are "better" than salaried women.

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Actually, it's not Bibi, it's a radical right-wing minority who actually annoy Bibi a lot of the time. Bibi is an arrogant, corrupt asshole who is currently trying to dismantle the Israeli judicial system to stay out of prison for corruption charges, but he is not the warmonger everyone thinks he is. He is actually a cautious politician who tries to avoid conflict (in 2014 he only sent the ground troops into Gaza because the General Staff basically forced him to). Sure he does hold right-wing views and gives bombastic speeches so people further to the right will vote for him, but in reality he's just a status-quo politician who wants to stay in office.

This particular conflict began when a private far-right group moved to have Palestinians evicted from properties that had been litigated over for a long time. There was rock-throwing in Jerusalem, the police responded, and then it all went downhill from there.

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If you as an average man want a good life with a woman:

Stop obsessing over the best looking women. Choose your partner based on personality, lifestyle/values compatibility and moral character first and foremost ahead of looks (it's understandable to be squicked by worse-than-Susan Boyle looks though, terribly few women are that extreme).

Stop obsessing over casual sex. Pursuit of casual sex violates the law of supply and demand and is not only an unsuccessful strategy for an average man but it also greatly increases the demand on sex with women, driving women to raise the effort-cost (what you have to do to obtain both ONS and LTR) in response. Pursuit of casual sex is especially harmful to average men.

Corollary: if all you average men are getting casual sex and spinning plates the way T(we)RP says you can, then where are you going to find your virgins and low-N count women? You're shitting in your own punch bowl so stop.

Casual sex is not the be all and end all of the world. LTR sex can overtake casual sex in terms of quality like a rocket does a bullet. LTR sex enables you to become more in tune with your partner's desires and kinks and vice-versa. Quality of partner > quantity of partners.

Corollary: Watch lots and lots of lesbian movies involving cunnilingus, and learn. Back in the 1990s I knew a guy in Los Angeles who got outed for his obsession with this by his dumbass vindictive religio-fascist ex-gf. He had to install a Ticketmaster at his door for all the women lining up for some. I guarantee you in 2021 good cunnilingus skills will hook your woman 99/100 and land you some degree of consistent porn star level sex.

Also corollary: if you want the variety that many women partners can offer, learn to provide variety. Your LTR partner will reciprocate.

Always, always go Dutch on dates. Put it in your profile. Do not waver if you get few or no replies. Those women who swipe left on you are vampires who will use you for free meals. They will also be FD$ women. You don't want them.

Corollary: learn to unlearn the T(we)RP propaganda that career women make bad partners and poor mothers. An independent woman is (not always unlikely but) least likely to want to bleed your wallet, since she's got her own money. Plus points if she's an entrepreneur with a home-based business.

Also corollary: knowing how to share the upkeep of a home and bottle feed/change a baby's diapers/generally co-parent is a good thing. Although it's unlikely that most average men will need to hear this, I'm just putting that out there. Also proper co-parenting makes it really hard for her to trample you in family court if a divorce happens. Proven historical fact.

This is the way.

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You didn’t actually read this did you?

“Results for men indicated that for a unit increase in violence between waves, there was an 8% increase in the number of sex partners reported from previous waves,” the researchers wrote.

What the study is actually saying is that as violent men become more violent, they fuck more women. That does not mean that men who are NOT violent have fewer sex partners as a rule.

In fact, it also states:

“Increasing levels of education were also longitudinally associated with increases in men’s number of sex partners.”

And:

“Intelligence and violence are negatively correlated in the population”

Best part is his “conclusion” that isn’t supported by any data cited in the article:

“findings suggest that women still find physically aggressive behavior sexually appealing and that the sex appeal of intelligence seems to depend on the physical aggressiveness of men,” Seffrin told PsyPost.”

Nice click bait though.

Tell me. Why is it so important for you guys to believe only sociopaths are sexually successful?

Could it be that makes you feel better to sell yourself on the idea that sexually successful men are inherently bad people?

[–]OddAlternatives1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Tell me. Why is it so important for you guys to believe only sociopaths are sexually successful?

Could it be that makes you feel better about being jealous of them?

Maybe it's not just about absolute numbers, but also about how much...I guess the word is "pandering" the guy has to do to get the score up?

It seems pretty readily agreed on that physically attractive guys generally have to do less work to achieve the same outcome.

Maybe it seems quaint to encounter standards when even one man who is behaving far worse is more sexually successful.

Like that article that makes the rounds around PPD once in a while radicalizing the romanceless....I guess the takeaway should be "don't like it that drug dealers get laid more? Start slangin, pussy"

When I was younger – and I mean from teenager hood all the way until about three years ago – I was a ‘nice guy’. And I said the same thing as every other nice guy, which is “I am a nice guy, how come girls don’t like me?”

There seems to be some confusion about this, so let me explain what it means, to everyone, for all time.

It does not mean “I am nice in some important cosmic sense, therefore I am entitled to sex with whomever I want.”

It means: “I am a nicer guy than Henry.”

Or to spell it out very carefully, Henry clearly has no trouble attracting partners. He’s been married five times and had multiple extra-marital affairs and pre-marital partners, many of whom were well aware of his past domestic violence convictions and knew exactly what they were getting into. Meanwhile, here I was, twenty-five years old, never been on a date in my life, every time I ask someone out I get laughed at, I’m constantly teased and mocked for being a virgin and a nerd whom no one could ever love, starting to develop a serious neurosis about it.

And here I was, tried my best never to be mean to anyone, pursued a productive career, worked hard to help all of my friends. I didn’t think I deserved to have the prettiest girl in school prostrate herself at my feet. But I did think I deserved to not be doing worse than Henry.

No, I didn’t know Henry at the time. But everyone knows a Henry. Most people know several. Even three years ago, I knew there were Henry-like people – your abusers, your rapists, your bullies – and it wasn’t hard to notice that none of them seemed to be having the crushing loneliness problem I was suffering from.

And, like my patient Dan, I just wanted to know – how is this fair?

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It's not so much that we get mad at it but it is the right thing to make sure that men are aware of this information before they get into the dating Market, now I wouldn't say somebody chooses to be so-called betta or a simp or anything like that, sometimes that's just your upbringing and sometimes people can't break that, it may be disappointing but at the end of the day a simp is going to do what he's going to do but just informing guys that there is a strong possibility in some cases that with some guys if they take a good look at themselves , the girl they think they're in love with and want to marry was giving the good enthusiastic actually aroused sex to the ones she actually was attracted to , and you're going to be getting sex with one-fifth of the enthusiasm, some of the acts off limits and half the amount, some guys may take that deal it is what it is

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Wait? Treating someone well and talking to them is now a utility?

Yes. Always has been.

Do men not want women to treat them well?

Yes, we do, but not as a pretext for us being strung along or anything like that.

So If a woman does treat a man well and not ignore her then he is using her for utility too by that logic.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Need proper English to understand.

And no point to debate with you because you always find irrelevant ways to extend the conversation but this one is really autistic buddy

No, I usually have to go on a long and drawn out discussion because people extend the conversation with irrelevant talking points. Don't get it backwards. I'd prefer to keep things on topic and talk as little as possible, but that doesn't seem to be possible in here with everyone.

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You could just talk to him in private like a grown up without using relatives to manipulate him. Talking isn’t “hounding”. If marriage is important to you, then don’t just quietly wait around hoping he’ll maybe want it and come up with the idea himself someday— guys often don’t want to change if things are comfortable enough, but you might grow to resent him if you expect to be married someday and it never happens.

But also, decide if being married is actually important to you (and why). If it is, it is important for you to discuss it with him honestly and make your decisions based on what you learn. But if you’re just feeling left out or pressured because other women are getting married, or you’re just feeling like marriage is just the next expected step because that’s “just what you do”, then those are not really quite the right reasons to want him to marry you.

It isn’t virtuous to hide your wants and needs from your partner just to be the “cool” girl.

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you are what I call the "free market failure" of a extremely SMV riddled society. To be more specific, its a free market negative externality. This is a problem that many men face on a regular basis.

Just like pollution in oceans or pollution in rivers or pollution in the underground wells, or plastic pollution due to our rampant consumerism. These deeply troubling problems have little to no concrete solutions because there's no profit motive in solving them, so we all collectively face the consequences for it.

Women successfully broke the so called "patriarchy" for their own benefit while leaving the beneficial part of patriarchy on men alone to handle it themselves. (AKA holding onto all the benefits of patriarchy, but want none of the responsibility in "breaking" patriarchy) They successfully decimated the family units by making divorce more accessible, make it deeply one sided, hand them out with "no fault" if women asked for it, and pretty much made the point of marriages moot to many guys. Now women are successfully running a decades old campaign making divorce as a form of "empowerment" for married women because "you deserve only the best sis."

The point I am trying to make here is despite your best efforts in proving yourself to be more worth than a side chick, you still fail to secure commitment because of the world we live in.

Its not your fault, and guess what? Its not his fault either for this problem.

more reading on free market failure

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If you actively consider yourself a geek, like thats your identity, you the nerd of class/group/school, no wonder why you a loser tbh.

At my job we spend all day talking about anime, like the whole damn day, from the native chad with great hair, to the 250lb chick, to the black chick with veil into isekai, to me, to my buddy niko (hey niko, say hey everyone), everyone are often somewhat connected to nerdy cultute anyway.

You might play genshin impact during your breaks, or you maybe into synthwave or vaporwave, or spend a humongos time.on internet debating the most autistic thing while dropping some meme from the 2000s, or watch the last season of my hero academia or the reboot of star wars, you are partially a nerd.

So the dude who carry being a nerd like it is his only badge of honor, you just sound like weirdos who only talk about car 24/7, like their life is summarized by the existence of a Honda Prelude....being a nerd isnt the issue, it is being a flawed human without any sense of conplexeness, you just a nerd, when people call you a nerd they sum up your whole existence, you nothing else than a nerd, you not a complex human with different facets and interest.

You mister nerd, and no one want a one dimensional being.

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If you actively consider yourself a geek, like thats your identity, you the nerd of class/group/school, no wonder why you a loser tbh.

Anime was my one nerd hobby. I tolerated and got very familiar with MLB baseball, liked traveling around the country, I liked drawing cityscapes and I was a foodie, among other things. (I can fucking cook up a storm.) I didn't consume pop culture media until after I ditched anime, though. I was an expert with computers but most people didn't know unless they came to my job and 99% of them didn't. My computer stayed under a desk and the CRT was out of sight when anyone was there.

Some dickhead out in the world (not mentioning names) thinks all I did was jabber about anime to people when the only thing they ever knew of my anime habit was the manga and VCR tapes. Admittedly that stuff was conspicuously on a bookshelf in the living room where I liked to sit and read or watch shows when I was alone. I know, I know, that somehow automatically means I pestered people endlessly with talk of big boobed anime girls hahahaha

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Well he was definitely an idiot, I'll give you that.

It isn't a fact that women prefer the tallest dudes. Do studies not show that after a certain height it drops back down in terms of preference, because there is such a thing as too tall? Yes, there does seem to be a lot of women who like tall guys, but most of them don't have it as a hard and fast rule. Guys on here act like women can't possibly be physically attracted to men below 6"0 and if they're with someone shorter they're settling, which is untrue.

Also, someone might genuinely have no preference for height but end up with someone above average because that's who they liked. Guys on here will instantly dismiss that again because unless you happen to have married a short guy you can't possibly have ever been attracted to a short guy. It's total bullshit.

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If the definition of the Black Pill(correct me if I’m wrong) is looks are everything game/charisma/swag isn’t real, your success with women in life is pre determined by how you look, If you’re ugly just give up, wouldnt a lot of women support this? I don’t support or agree with “The black pill” at all, I’m just throwing it out for conversation.

One of the biggest complaints women have is that they are tired of ugly/ average dudes coming up to them thinking they have a chance with their “game” or charm. If those guys swallowed the black pill wouldn’t women rejoice? I mean the problem is solved. Those ugly dudes would all give up, go home, lock themselves away and women wouldn’t have to worry about it.

You would think it would be women pushing the black pill but it’s overwhelmingly men even though one could argue women benefit the most.

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Not quite, looks/height/race aren’t the only thing that matters, they’re just arguably the most important.

While the red pill provides you truths which help you achieve in life (aka be alpha, go gym, people respect a strong body, don’t take shit, hold frame, etc).

The blackpill encompasses all uncomfortable truths about the world that doesn’t really help anybody and just makes you sad. Stuff like height matters a lot more than people claim, looks matter a lot more than people claim, being white is highly attractive, being brown is a major disadvantage, hell even the average Asian women in a western country prefer white men over other Asian men, etc etc.

None of this helps a dude who wants to achieve in life, to achieve in life, they’re just.. facts. Fact is if that man was whiter and taller, he’s have no issue with women.

Game is still important, especially to 6/10 men, but the more attractive a guy is the less game matters. To the point a 10/10 can publicly claim to be a pedo nazi and women would still jump for him.

Women don’t want to push the blackpill because it would show to everyone watching that they’re actually just shallow people who care more about how tall/pretty a man is rather than who he is. Plus they both love and want a group of orbiters, they want these men around to compliment them, love them, give them attention, then every now and then use the men as an emotional sponge.

If these men realised the blackpill they’d immediately stop orbiting women and putting them on a pedestal. “Influencers” would lose 3/4 of their likes on Instagram, E-Girls would lose all of their fan base, a bunch of women in general would lose their Male friends, etc. Women benefit more from men being bluepilled than blackpilled.

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If the definition of the Black Pill(correct me if I’m wrong) is looks are everything game/charisma/swag isn’t real, your success with women in life is pre determined by how you look, If you’re ugly just give up, wouldnt a lot of women support this?

Really depends on the guy in question. Women wouldn't tell anyone to give up explicitly, but they'd say to themselves "it couldn't be me" when addressing said guy's desirability.

One of the biggest complaints women have is that they are tired of ugly/ average dudes coming up to them thinking they have a chance with their “game” or charm. If those guys swallowed the black pill wouldn’t women rejoice? I mean the problem is solved. Those ugly dudes would all give up, go home, lock themselves away and women wouldn’t have to worry about it.

They say that, but they secretly like all of the validation that these guys give them. Their self-esteem is usually in the toilet without it.

You would think it would be women pushing the black pill but it’s overwhelmingly men even though one could argue women benefit the most.

Feminism already has that covered without having to be in the same proximity as those men.

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In the recent geek OP, the sentiment seemed to be that geeky men have to change themselves for women but women never experience this.

That’s nonsense.

This is not true.

I can’t think of a singular geeky woman who is dating a non geeky man who isn’t actively toning herself down and primping herself up more than she would if she were dating her geeky counterpart.

I have geeky coworkers with geeky husbands. She doesn’t wear makeup because she doesn’t like it. She and he are both slightly overweight. They are happy asf. Play their super nerdy CPU games (and are snobby about it lol). And are caring for their newborn.

Whereas I have women in my life whose default is the woman above, but because she is dating or married to a non-nerdy guy who has non-nerdy expectations, she’s “not being herself” pretty often. Had she dressed and comported like the other female geek, she wouldn’t have been chosen by her normie male partner. He wouldn’t have “tolerated it” because he wouldn’t have even swiped on her or asked her out in the wild.

Tempering yourself because you decided to partner with someone who isn’t as similar to you isn’t unique to nerdy men. Or nerdy women. It’s literally what most couples who aren’t similar end up doing to some degree.

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There isn't really such a clear agreed upon distinction between geek and nerd, and although I do kind of softly agree with that categorization, the two are often used interchangeably, and many people are both.

I was really just following up on the thread topic, and I'm not that interested in the semantics here. So in this case, just pretend I just said geeky instead: cosplay is much more in the lines of Skyrim modding in terms of geeky vs nerdy (not that it matters for this discussion-- guys are weird about nerdy girls too), which is what I was responding to. Because sure, neither cosplay nor Skyrim modding fits the extreme esoteric deep knowledge of nerdiness as you mean it.

I was more of a nerd myself. It did not make me appealing to men either, in spite of my nerd expertise being a very male dominated field.

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Is she secretly modding skyrim so her Chad husband doesn't notice? Maybe once he's done porking her for the night, she sneaks out and signs on to League of Legends?

This is the misconception the OP had as well. A man or woman doing those activities isn’t the issue. It’s that the men and women who do only those things tend to look and act and dress a certain way.

Geeks and Nerds and Dorks will do themselves a favor by realizing it’s the bolded that’s turning off normies, not the activities. I repeat, it is the bolded.

My ex with the heavy D you love to bring up watched and played hours upon hours of LoL. He “snuck off” and modded a few geeky forums. He also boxed. He also is a sneaker head (GOAT/StockX). He also rode a motorcycle. He also had an impeccable but simplistic sense of style. Owned some excellent photography tomes and dabbled in photography himself.

edit: I love how you immediately associated “normie” with “Chad.” “Chad” = “AFC normie” now 😂

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How fucking dare anyone out there make fun of MasterTeacher after all he has been through!

He lost his aunt, he went through a divorce. He had two fuckin kids.

His wife turned out to be a user, a cheater, and now he’s going through a custody battle. All you people care about is making money off of him.

HE’S A HUMAN! (ah! ooh!) What you don’t realize is that MasterTeacher is making you all this money and all you do is write a bunch of crap about him.

He hasn’t performed on stage in years. His song is called “give me more” for a reason because all you people want is MORE! MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE!

LEAVE HIM ALONE! You are lucky he even performed for you BASTARDS! LEAVE MasterTeacher ALONE! Please.

Perez Hilton talked about professionalism and said if MasterTeacher was a professional he would’ve pulled it off no matter what.

Speaking of professionalism, when is it professional to publicly bash someone who is going through a hard time?

Leave MasterTeacher Alone Please! Leave MasterTeacher alone! Right now! I mean it!

Anyone that has a problem with him you deal with me, because he is not well right now.

LEAVE HIM ALONE!

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You know what, I think I actually will.

First, bit of social context: Jews were always second class citizens in muslim territories. They had no right to bear arms, they had to accept Muslim authority, they had to pay head tax, had to submit part of their harvest, they paid higher officail taxes, they couldn't look in the eyes of Muslims when speaking to them, they couldn't ride "noble" animals like camels or horses, their testimonies were not admissable in court, blah blah blah you get the idea. That's how muslims and Jews lived together in the middle east for over a thousand years. With that out of the way...

Long long ago there used to be a state called the Ottoman Empire which occupied, among others, the territories of modern Israel and Palestine. Said Ottoman Empire fought at the side of Central Powers during World War I. Central Powers of course lost the war, which caused the collapse of multi-national Ottoman Empire and a bunch of smaller states emerged in its place. Israel was NOT such a state; at the time of creation it was a British mandate, i.e. officially a part of Great Britain, only managed by Jews.

If you're wondering why Great Britain was so generous as to give Jews their own mandate(Balfour Declaration), perhaps it had something to do with a Jewish banker called Rothschild who provided the government of Britain with millions of dollars(early 20th century dollars) worth of war loans. I guess I could mention that a Jewish volunteer battalion also helped on that front but that's not something you grand land for, even shitty land.

Because it really was shitty land - palestine is a rocky semi-desert almost completely devoid of natural resources. Outside of its religious significance to Christians it basically had no value to anyone in history. As an example, in 1695 Adriani Rilandi described Palestine as such: small Muslim population living semi-nomadically; Jews and Christians living in cities. Or should I say villages: the "great city" of Jerusalem had a population of 5000, and Nazareth of 700.

Either way, the mandate was created. The principles of Balfour Declaration were confirmed by all major powers between 1918 and 1922, and finally secured by the resolution of League of Nations(the predecessor to modern United Nations) Jews were supposed to stick to the west of the Jordan river, and Arabs(not "Palestinians") on the east side of it. The stage was set for the rise of Zionism and massive migration to Palestine: by the time WWII began over 420 thousand Jews lived there, by the time it was over it was over 650 thousand.

As the population of Jews increased, so did the population of Arabs, but for quite different reasons. First Arabs simply harassed, looted and occassionally murdered Jews trying to create a country out of bunch of rocks. Once Jews got too numerous and organized for that to be possible, they became an opportunity instead. Jews needed an endless supply of labour and had money to spare. Compared to everything around it, Palestine was quickly becoming an oasis in the middle of nothing and Arabs were arriving from near and far to work and live there. By the time WWII began over 400 thousand Arabs lived in Palestine, by the time it ended it was over 800 thousand.

Unfortunately for Jews, World War II highlighted the critical importance of a new resource: oil. Americans had their own oil(and they still do, contrary to what most of them believe) and so did USSR, but if Europe didn't want to fall behind rest of the world they had to get friendly with Arabs, and quick. The same Arabs who were currently hauling ass for Jews while simultaneously dreaming of another Jihad to finish what Hitler started.

And so an "agreement" was made. In 1947 the United Nations, in violation of its own Statute which guaranteed of all League of Nation Mandates(i.e. the Balfour Declaration) decided to divide Palestine again. Now in addition to terriories east of Jordan river, the Arabs would also get most of habitable Palestine. Not being in a position to object, the Jews actually agreed to this(!) but the Arabs themselves decided it was not enough. They demanded the whole thing - entire Jewish part of Palestine, from the sea to the Jordan River.

Needless to say this was not something Jews could accept. On May 14th, 1948 they proclaimed the creation of Jewish State of Israel. On May 15th the air force of Egypt carried out the first air strikes. In addition to Egypt four other Arab countries(Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq) plus armed formations of Palestinian Arabs immediately attacked the newly founded state. And lost.

Alas, Israeli Defense Force could only do so much. Judea and Samaria - what western newspapers nowodays call the "West Bank" - the promised land of "Palestinian people"(who were immigrant Arabs all, and who did not even live in Palestine for 50 years at this point) along with towns Ramallah, Nablus and Jenin, the centers of modern "Palestinian Autonomy"... all that territory was lost. It was occupied by Jordan.

Yes, you read that right. The West Bank, the "Palestine part of Palestine" that "Palestinians" claim as their birthright was not even in hands of Israel from 1948 onwards. It was occupied(illegally, I might add) by Jordan until 1967. But wait, there's more: the Palestinian Liberation Organization was created in 1964. Three years BEFORE Israel "occupied"(read: took back) the West Bank. Now that's a headscratcher. What exacly did the PLO want to liberate? And from whom? The West Bank from Jordan?

Article 24 of the "Palestinian Charter" from the same 1964 reads: "The Palestine Liberation Organization has no intention to declare the national sovereignty in the territory of the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom." Hashemite Kingdom is the official name of Jordan; i.e. the state currently occupying West Bank. Yet PLO has "no intention" to liberate it from Jordan. So again... what are they liberating? Articles 19 and 20 are quite clear on this: "The situation in Palestine in 1947 and the creation of the state of Israel are absolutely illegal regardless of the passing of time... The Balfour Declaration, Palestine mandate and everything based on them should be treated as illegal and invalid"

That's right - just like how in 1947 Arabs demanded entirety of Palestine, 17 years later they are still demanding entire Palestine. The PLO is not liberating "Palestinians" from the Jews, it's liberating Palestine - the area - from the Jews. If you already forgot the history lesson about Muslim-Jewish relations, or think it was just unrelated ancient history, maybe the words of then Chairman of the PLO Executive Committee Ahmad Shukeiri will remind you just how such liberation would look like: "After our victory we will help the surviving Jews to return to where they came from. But I doubt anyone will survive."

Meh, it's getting late. tl;dr Muslims hate Jews. There is no such thing as "Palestinian state", it's a modern fake country full of Arabs indistinquishable from Arabs living everywhere else. Imagine if Great Lakes demanded independence from the US - it's like that but even more nonsensical.

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Palestinian muslims and Jews and Christians lived side by side on that plot of land for 100s of years, and now the original people are being wiped out by refugees.

okay now we agree on that, but lets be honest right there, to me, it isnt the fault of israelis at all tbh, it is the fault of the two dumbass: sykes and picot.

my thing is i see validity in how jews went there, a lot of people actually bought land there btw, like A LOT, and at the end giving an historical jew place for jew refugee does make sense, plus it wasnt an extremely populated place, my issue is how people tried to form a state out of different ethnicity.

People back then mixed having to deal with jew refugee with zinonism, which i will never understand.

No this place is supposed to host refugee, not to be a jew state. I dont get how they thought promising a jewish state to a bunch of religious pundits would end up being a good idea, it is so fucking retarded, the whole issue with

The UN was dumb enough to even give a fuck about some jewish separatist wants for an ethno-state, like who dont see the problematic future of allowing a the two state solution...

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That is assuming that homeless is caused a lack of sympathy. Every case of chronic homelessness I’ve personally seen has been caused by addiction, criminality and mental illness. Specifically the types of mental illness more common in men than women. It’s a more complicated issue than “people don’t care”

My husband tried to help a guy he grew up with who developed a problem with addiction and homelessness. We took him in several times, fed him, bathed him, he destroyed our couch with a smell that was simply indescribable. If he did any work, he immediately spent the money on crack and alcohol. After he started getting a $400 ssi check he would go on a bender and show up broke looking for a place to crash. We had to be super careful to not let him in the house if we weren’t there and watch him to make sure he didn’t steal.

A good female friend of mine became homeless due to bipolar disorder. Her cousin, who has become a good friend of mine, bought her a house ...cash, and she still ended up homeless. She was once a quite pretty and very talented woman, she often found “a boyfriend “, ie would barter sex for shelter. As the years took their toll, her homelessness turned to intermittent incarceration and eventually to suicide.

Did no one care for these people? People cared. Here’s an idea. Grab a chronically homeless guy off the street. Take him in. Without any professional mental health services rendered. Tell me how that goes.

[–]TheBookOfSeil2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That is assuming that homeless is caused a lack of sympathy.

I never said "caused." A lot of women's precautionary behaviors lessen the likelihood of them having to face significant problems. That's what the large social circles of friends and orbiters are for. Most of it is related to sympathy though. Women receive more help and support from both men and women than men do.

Men's problems affect their ability to engage in society and be successful, and sometimes women's problems overlap, but women are seldom pushed to that point in the first place. There also might be some conflation with issues due to malnourishment, like not eating healthy or staying hydrated, being out in the sun most of the time, no sanitary living conditions, etc.

I get that most homeless people have mental illnesses, but there are still people who function and get into relationships with mental illnesses, so I'm sure that there are other problems than "mental illness" contributing to both sides' homelessness problem. The easiest one to point out is that men are tossed to the curb while women aren't.

[–]Ppdebateismental1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

When talking about chronic homelessness? Not evicted and between apartments, but actual “homeless person” homelessness? Everything I have personally witnessed is that family will refuse help when behavior becomes criminal, erratic or dangerous, regardless of gender.

Lots of people have “mental illness”, women are more prone to depression which is mostly dangerous to themselves. But schizophrenics, rapid cycling bipolar disorder, ....I have seen many many homeless women with these disorders.

Along with addicts who will steal and mentally ill people who might sling feces or burn your house down, we did forget the other huge category of homeless

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjmsdefjsXwAhVhUN8KHcJKAVwQFjAMegQIEhAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrownpoliticalreview.org%2F2019%2F04%2Fsentenced-homelessness-case-housing-sex-offenders%2F&usg=AOvVaw3Jmz1msO_Bx-lSs_Tv6lw5

In my small county there is a one convicted sex offender for every 53 people, only 2 are women. It’s extremely hard for these men to find employment or housing.

You might think it’s terrible that all these men have been “cast out” , “tossed to the curb” and their own family won’t help. I’m telling you that when parents, siblings or even sometimes children won’t help, it has nothing to do with whether it’s a son or daughter, or a brother or sister. It’s because they are perceived to be too risky to have in the house.

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We are specifically talking about homeless women correct?

Not in this case, but it extends to homelessness as well.

If the amount of resources/help they receive outweighs how much the typical homeless man gets I am almost positive the involvement of children plays some role in this.

They could be involved on either side, but no, I don't think I've ever seen an entire homeless family before. I've seen men holding signs saying "I have 3 kids" or something similar, but if you're just assuming that any random homeless women has children somewhere, and that's why she gets more help than any man does, that's a stretch.

If more homeless men with children were wandering around a la "Pursuit of Happyness" you would probably see them getting more sympathy/support as well.

I would think families being mentioned would garner more generosity, but I can't say for certain if it does, and whether those men get more, less or the same than women do.

Lol if men were this eager to help homeless women out for absolutely nothing in return sex work wouldn't exist.

What do you think those women exchange for being taken in? Most of women's leverage comes from sex in any exchange with men.

I'm also not sure where the link is supposed to be in your comment. How is homelessness related to sex work?

[–]LittyKitsune2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They could be involved on either side, but no, I don't think I've ever seen an entire homeless family before. I've seen men holding signs saying "I have 3 kids" or something similar, but if you're just assuming that any random homeless women has children somewhere, and that's why she gets more help than any man does, that's a stretch.

No not any "random homeless women." I think a specific subset of them are receiving the bulk of the sympathy points and that gets incorrectly extrapolated to all of them. Homeless women with children get priority and greater access to resources like shelters and charity than women without them. I can't find any sources on what childless female vs. male beggars get from the public, but they do seem to be treated similarly in the eyes of shelters.

I'm also not sure where the link is supposed to be in your comment. How is homelessness related to sex work

If all the typical woman had to do in order to survive was bat her eyelashes at a few orbiters why would anyone opt to enter an industry where she actually has to fuck those orbiters whether she finds them attractive or not? Particularly in a county where it's illegal and potentially very dangerous.

[–]PickleLine4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]GridReXX4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I've volunteered at homeless shelters regularly.

but you never see young homeless women on the side of the road.

You do. But not as much as men. And it's not often "sympathy."

Why?

Male homeless shelters are rougher than female homeless shelters. Men and women who are homeless are typically mentally unwell clinically or because of substance abuse. Combine that with male testosterone and aggression and it's quite dangerous. We had to kick out many men for the safety of the other guests. Way more than women. And IME volunteering, many men prefer to be outside than in a confined space with a bunch of other crazy men. We used to have to check in "weapons" before each shift. People have machetes. Bow & arrows. Lots of things to protect themselves.
When the issue isn't a mental illness or substance abuse, often times the person is able to crash at a relative or friend's house. IME, when this has happened in my own family, the woman is a better guest. They offer to help around the house. More mindful as a guest.
Unfortunately for men, many men and women are more inclined to let a woman stay with them than a man. Could be for different reasons and none of them are "sympathy" IMO. Sometimes it's safety or concern about their child's safety. Sometimes it's the above bullet. Sometimes it's more exploitative (maybe I can get her to like me because I'm letting her stay.) Etc.
If a woman has a child, she is more likely to get welfare assistance because she's a single mother so she's less likely to be on the street. Same logic applies for relatives or friends --- if she has a kid/kids, they're going to feel bad for the child or for her as a parent and let them all stay for a while. Also there are homeless shelters that are exclusively for women and children for obvious reasons.
Etc.

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I don't think that is what he believes. Again, I do think he should have done a better job being more explicit in what his point is. As someone who generally thinks similarly to him I will give you my guess on what his position is.

his top level post quoted this whole chunk:

it is widely accepted that looks are weighted the heaviest for women in the eyes of men. Presentation as well, especially when it comes to her weight or her not shaving her legs ever or smelling gross.Conversely, women care about meeting a looks threshold, but presence/presentation/status can really take a man who is solidly average in immutable physical looks to an "above average" SMV or higher.

I dont believe his point was that men care about presence/status more than looks. I think his point was that women and men are the same in that looks are by far the strongest influencer of attraction and that the importance of status/presence in women's assessments of male attractiveness is negligible.

[–]Kaisha0013 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]GridReXX2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Got it.

In that case, I can't say I'm aligned with either one of you on that.

I think his point was that women and men are the same in that looks are by far the strongest influencer of attraction

I think for men the relative weighting is stronger. I mean for chrissake there’s a reason men fap to photos and porn and women get aroused by moodier representations, particular erotica. To say women are generally as visual as men is opposite world.

I say in my OP that women have a looks threshold that has to be met for any of the other things I said to matter and I pretty clearly state that that's at least him having average raw looks.

I explained that.

We probably won't ever agree on that.

and that the importance of status/presence in women's assessments of male attractiveness is negligible.

I will continue to strongly believe that men who refuse to believe that presense is the trigger for tingles in women are always, and I mean always, going to struggle with arousing women and will encounter dead bedrooms and encounter lack of admiration/respect from most women they attempt to interact sexually.

That isn’t negligible. It's pretty integral. I haven’t experienced anything to counter the above.

[–]Bandit1743 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

To say women are generally as visual as men is opposite world.

Depends on how visual is being defined. I think men are more sensitive to a wider range of visuals or stimulated more easily but women can be just as turned on by pure looks, the only difference is the quality of the visuals must past a higher treshold for that to happen.

and I pretty clearly state that that's at least him having average raw looks.

Yes and kaisha001's second link highlighted the difference between how men and women rate raw looks. A 50th percentile guy is not actually viewed as having medium attractiveness to women.

I will continue to strongly believe that men who refuse to believe that presense is the trigger for tingles in women are always, and I mean always, going to struggle with arousing women and will encounter dead bedrooms and encounter lack of admiration/respect from most women they attempt to interact sexually.

Perhaps, but they are probably going to struggle and get dead bedroomed regardless of whether they believe in the importance of presence and status. I don't think the average guy is doomed to sexlessness or anything like that. He will get girlfriends and married but I don't think he'll ever have it easy or generate even close to the lust a good looking guy does regardless of his presence or status.

The presence (Does he comport in a charmingly masculine way? matters but is mostly based on physical appearance. Whenever a guy is considered charming or masculine he is normally above average in raw looks through some combination of height, facial aesthetics skeletal frame. Also voice I think is especially important for being perceived as masculine and charming. Point is I don't think it's a switch the average Joe can turn on like oh I'm going to be charming and masculine. You either have it or you don't.

[–]GridReXX5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Voice timbre is something I would place in “raw born with this category.”

If man is at least average here, meaning he isn’t a high pitch squeakster, he can improve his intonation and elocution just as anyone has. I work in management and running panel circuits. I am always minding my tone and speaking in a way that I know is going to resonate best. And I don’t have the best voice and I have an accent I don’t like that I am always tempering. I know ppl with good natural voices. I ain’t it. Hence I practice mindfulness when speaking publicly.

Developing a more masculine tone of voice and style of speaking and interacting if you have an average male vocal box is improveable. An exception would be someone with a mental (autism affects speech pattern for example) or disability (a tick, stuttering, etc) that would put that person below average on this axis.

Any man born with all the physiological things (mental, physical, whatever) one can be born with that can affect them... if he is born with it being at least average, he can improve and actually arouse women.

Yes and kaisha001's second link highlighted the difference between how men and women rate raw looks. A 50th percentile guy is not actually viewed as having medium attractiveness to women.

Because no matter how many times I say this, women are experiential and rely on mood.

If you take that 50th percentile guy and altered his hair slightly better and gave him a 5 o clock shadow, and altered the lighting of the photo, and made him smirk at something off in the distance, you’d see a huge difference in how he’s rated.

Studies like that are bullshit because for the millionth time women aren’t as visual as men. We don’t have dicks as litmus tests “ooh okay it jumped slightly which means if I turn her head I could stuff her hole.” So we are objectively trying to discern an image that doesn’t make us react. We can literally only tell if someone is deviations from the norm visually. Das it. And even then our clit isn’t moved by that. We would have to experience the person in person to see if we are aroused by them. Which means for people’s photos in between those two extremes we are just guessing at it. Unless the photos are less static and more experiential. So for men who are in between the extremes (the middle+ guys) and refuse to tap into that mood/presence aspect, it’s going to adversely affect their options as I state in my OP. But I know Kaisha and yourself and others refuse to accept that mood/presence (even on photos)/experiential factors affect women at all and it’s “negligible.” As a woman, a major factor for how we assess the world is impossible to be negligible.

Also, it’s m very possible men over state female beauty because they’re boner blinded. That’s my take. The studies weren’t convincing to me and don’t counter the crux of my OP.

edit

Quite frankly most of the men who vehemently disagree with me probably fall on the spectrum (or socialized into a spectrum-y purview) , which means they’re naturally detrimentally below average for my bullets 3 & 4 and maybe 2 too. So I get why my OP doesn’t click for them. And if that’s the case the real Black Pill for them isn’t his “average looks” being the attraction killer, it’s everything else. The AFC can improve the everything else. The Omega? Well, it’s in God’s hands.

[–]Bandit1741 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Voice timbre is something I would place in “raw born with this category.”

Agreed.

If man is at least average here, meaning he isn’t a high pitch squeakster, he can improve his intonation and elocution just as anyone has.

Does that actually make a noticeable difference in being perceived charming/masculine?

I work in management and running panel circuits. I am always minding my tone and speaking in a way that I know is going to resonate best.

Panel circuits? Is that like focus groups or something completely different?

Any man born with all the physiological things (mental, physical, whatever) one can be born with that can affect them... if he is born with it being at least average, he can improve and actually arouse women.

Like someone else said, isn't it a moving target? Like if all average men implemented the improvements you suggest doesn't that just become the new average?

I think Atlas has said similar too i.e that women always want the top guys and even if men improve womens criteria will just scale accordingly.

Because no matter how many times I say this, women are experiential and rely on mood.

I know you keep saying it but I can't get beyond the viewpoint that the mood, presence or whatever is mostly to entirely inferred from the raw born with this attributes (facial structure, skeletal structure and voice) .

If you take that 50th percentile guy and altered his hair slightly better and gave him a 5 o clock shadow, and altered the lighting of the photo, and made him smirk at something off in the distance, you’d see a huge difference in how he’s rated.

I would be interested in seeing this tested. Like if an experiment took a bunch of average guys, had women give them a makeover, take their pictures tell them where to look ect and record the difference in matches or how they are rated. I really don't think it would be a huge difference but I'd be interested to see it.

Studies like that are bullshit because for the millionth time women aren’t as visual as men. We don’t have dicks as litmus tests “ooh okay it jumped slightly which means if I turn her head I could stuff her hole.”

Eh, I don't entirely relate to that. I don't really get randomly hard very often just seeing a picture unless I am already in that kinda mood but I can still look at pictures of women and easily know if I could enjoy sleeping with them based on just looks and it seems like women can do the same. There are men that women can see static pictures of where she will know she finds him attractive.

Quite frankly most of the men who vehemently disagree with me probably fall on the spectrum (or socialized into a spectrum-y purview) , which means they’re naturally detrimentally below average for my bullets 3 & 4 and maybe 2 too.So I get why my OP doesn’t click for them.

If you say so.

[–]GridReXX1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Does that actually make a noticeable difference in being perceived charming/masculine?

Yes. You inferred so when you suggested voice matters. And yes, overall how someone speaks does affect others. Tone is important. Men respond to me/women more viscerally/sexually when I speak "sweetly" "submissively" aka "femininely." This is men being affected by my "presence." For women, this presence factor is even more so important.

I know I get downvoted for it every time. But think about the mechanics of penetrative sex. Evolutionarily speaking, a man doesn't really need a woman to do anything but "look good" and he can get a boner and propagate his genes. He could rape an unconscious woman and secure insemination.

Whereas, I, women, need a man to do a lot more than "look good" if he's going to do the action of fucking us. He has to perform in some way or another.

And hence, while "looks" may be a thing for both genders, "presence" is always going to matter more for women when it comes to sexual arousal. Discount that all you want. It's still a reality.

Like someone else said, isn't it a moving target? Like if all average men implemented the improvements you suggest doesn't that just become the new average?

On an individual level, a man is able to arouse his woman 1 on 1. That is the point. I think men project a lot. Especially here. Because they are so looks focused, they apply this "stats" logic since I guess you can assess beauty this way. But women are more experiential, so if you're triggering her in the moment, none of the above is as important.

Let's pretend every single man looked like ::insert most beautiful man you can think of::, it comes down to his in-person presence still.

I know you keep saying it but I can't get beyond the viewpoint that the mood, presence or whatever is mostly to entirely inferred from the raw born with these attributes (facial structure, skeletal structure and voice) .

If a man has average and above raw born attributes, he can improve his SMV with the latter 3 bullets I mentioned.

No one is saying a 9/10 face with 8/10 presence won’t have a wider net to choose from than a 6/10 face with 8/10 presence. But the latter will have a wider net than 6/10 face with 5/10 presence.

I would be interested in seeing this tested. Like if an experiment took a bunch of average guys, had women give them a makeover, take their pictures tell them where to look ect and record the difference in matches or how they are rated. I really don't think it would be a huge difference but I'd be interested to see it.

I would like to see it tested too. I was going to add that in my reply but I was already rambling ☺️

I’ve watched enough male make-over shows with Stacy & Clinton on TLC to believe that study would align with my hypothesis. But I could be wrong.

but I can still look at pictures of women and easily know if I could enjoy sleeping with them based on just looks and it seems like women can do the same.

No. This is not the prevailing sentiment of women. And I explain why above when I discuss the difference in how men and women experience penetrative sex. Women need to experience the man before she can determine if he arouses her. This is the case for most women.

There are men that women can see static pictures of where she will know she finds him attractive.

She can know if he's objectively conventionally physically attractive. I explain that pretty exhaustively in the reply before this one. For most women, she will not know if he arouses her.

Panel circuits? Is that like focus groups or something completely different?

I meant participating in industry/conference panels. But, yes, even when moderating a focus group, this applies.

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Generally, I think your OPs take too long before you introduce the skeleton of your thesis or assume definitions and are too difficult to read so people build their own ideas of what they think you are trying to say given the parts that make sense to them. So the "disingenuous" claim comes from that not matching what you're actually trying to say. You tend to have clickbaity neg-style titles, (which is good) but you really need to cut to the chase of the argument.

Disclosure: I did start to read that OP and gave up because I couldn't figure out where it was trying to go and stopped halfway through because I couldn't follow what you were getting at. My experience generally has been that if I spend some time puzzling it out, I'm always wrong and it's an unproductive convo. You have a nice engaging writing style but that OP is "here's a bunch of observations" and then it jumps to "but i digress" abandoning the train of thought and at that point it seems to be more tone and style than substance.

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I will give you an example. In 2018, we had a referendum about including in the constitution that a family is formed between a man and a woman (the current definition for a family was that it was between spouses, so much more gender neutral) as a way to prevent gay marriage in the future.

The biggest left-wing (which is more like center-left and not far left) party (and it's way way bigger than the second left-wing party) was supporting this referendum and the change of the constitution, the biggest right-wing (center right) party was like "vote-your-conscience" and third biggest party (which is also center-right) was against the choice. Of course the church (which still holds some power in rural areas) was for the change.

In the end the referendum failed because although 80% voted for the change, in order to change the constitution you need at least 30% of people to vote in the referendum and only 20% did. Basically the strategy for those who were against was not to vote at all. Also, gay marriage was (and still is) banned here, but it is banned by a common law which can be changed much easier (by vote of parliament) and changing the constitution (vote by referendum). Basically it was a loud minority for which gay marriage was a very important issue and only the left-wing party openly and actively supported it.

Basically the flip between the left and the right is more related to social issues; in terms of economic ones it's more or less standard left-vs-right.

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Was this video taken before or after the allegations came out?

And even if it's after, it's not that being a pedophile is "enough" or typically viewed as a positive, its that the desirable traits he has outweighs the negative of being a pedophile.

Like lets say you're unnatractive and boring, you're not going to become more desirable by becoming a pedophile too. Its that the negative of being unnatractive and boring decreases your desirability by more points to a wider range of women than being a pedophile. Most women don't want to date a pedophile regardless of how he looks, but there are some and the % of women who would be willing date a decent looking successful famous pedophile will be greater than the % of women willing to date an unnatractive boring average wealth guy who isn't a pedophile.

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Why so certain Vaush is a pedophile?

And yeah he could definitely afford to lose some weight but he does have some good traits that put him above the typical stereotypical fat neckbeard. For example I believe he's over 6ft , he has a full think head of hair, deep voice and good facial aesthetics in the eye area. Of couse not every woman will find him attractive but I don't think hes so disgusting that its unfathomable that any woman could want him

His biggest flaw is his weight which is fixable. I think there are women who can look past the weight and see the potential in guys who are fat with decent bone structure and other positive features.

And no.. I am not a commie, I just think you are judging him as worse than he is. He's not a male model but when I look up neck beard online and then look up Vaush, Vaush is definitely way better than them imo.

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And come on man, he's a fat disgusting slob and if he was right wing every leftist on the internet would be using him as a poster boy for what alt right, fat neckbeard chuds look like.

I do agree people have a tendency to let politics affect their opinions of someone's attractiveness and rate them better or worse than they otherwise would. I don't think he is a Chad, but I don't think he is this disgusting cretin that no woman could possibly want. If he was actually that disgusting the liberal women wouldn't find him attractive. Having liberal views alone is not enough to make women find a guy attractive, he needs to have some positive foundational physical traits.

So personally I think face(mostly eyes & smile & hair) are the most important, followed by height and then physique. His face is decent to above average, his height is unquestionably above average, his voice is also above average and his physique is mediocre or possibly average considering the average person is supposedly overweight.

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There are several reasons.

One, age and hormones do a number on female hair. Pregnancy and childbirth can completely change the texture of a woman's hair, not always for the better. Menopause can have that effect too. When a woman's hair becomes thin, limp, dry and brittle, wearing it long just doesn't look good and there's only so much conditioner and product can do at that point.

Long hair is high maintenance. If you've got to get kids ready in the morning that doesn't leave much time to get yourself ready.

An astonishing number of women age 50+ have or have had cancer and lost their hair in treatment. Chemo is also used to treat some autoimmune diseases which primarily affect women.

Older women also experience hair loss, and like with the first point, having longer hair just brings attention to the problem. Shorter hair gives the illusion of more fullness and volume.

And again if we're talking women age 50+, a lot of them have physical ailments like osteoporosis, arthritis, tremors, shoulder replacements etc. that make it difficult or impossible to perform the movements required to style long hair.

Culturally, I think short hair is just considered more "mature," and past a certain point a woman with long hair either looks like a weird hippie or like she's trying too hard to look young. But I think the above listed reasons are why old women started having short hair and created that association in the first place.

Interestingly I grew up in a church where most women don't cut their hair ever. My grandmother is 90 and her hair nearly reaches her knees when it's down. But you'll notice even old women with long hair almost never wear it down, they wear it up in a bun or some other updo. Usually they get this done professionally once a week or so and leave it up all week so they don't have to style it themselves because past a certain age it's just too difficult to do.

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past a certain point a woman with long hair either looks like a weird hippie or like she's trying too hard to look young.

.... of course some of us find the hippie, alternative-lifestyle look attractive and would not want a normie chick under any circumstance.

I actually agree with you, but the point is, to answer the question, it's all a cultural thing, notwithstanding that yes of course hair gets thinner with age and so forth. There is no reason on God's green earth for old women to feel like it's the "norm" to get a short grandma haircut.

In my job, I meet a lot of old women, and every time I meet one who has kept her long hair, I always think to myself, what a wonderful lady, who values her femininity, hasn't given up on life, and respects her husband.

But you'll notice even old women with long hair almost never wear it down

I agree, there is a mature long hairstyle. But even hair in a bun is lovely as long as it's long.

This all touches on other discussions I've seen recently, about "Grey divorce" and the phenomenon of older couples just not being into each other anymore. I think a lot of women don't understand how disrespected a man feels when his woman chops off her hair. I would feel like a million bucks if I was 70 and my wife still respected me enough to sport a luscious mane.

On that note: I'm not opining on hair colouring either way, but there is naught wrong with long silver hair, ladies.

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Ask women thread about "pick me girls" reveals the existence of hypergamy from the feminine perspective.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/comments/nbfa6v/what_are_your_thoughts_as_a_woman_about_the_term/gxz727w?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

They will do anything for male approval, and often believes (whether it's consciously or subconsciously) that a woman is only worth as much as the quality (or in some cases, quantity) of men she can get to pick her. That's why they're called "pick me"'s.

Here we see that the phenomenon of hypergamy can be rationalized as a method by which women use to evaluate themselves in relation to other women. From the females perspective, its not that she wants the best genes or resources for her offspring, its that her percieved worth in this world is tied to the "quality or quantity" of men she can obtain

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well the way he put it, it seemed like he just brought the kid out with nothing and left him there. that sounds scary to me, but if he’d done it before or traveled on his own before and had money then it makes sense to expect he’d be fine.

like i said in another comment, idk any other cultures that do this besides americans (and maybe other westerners); who literally dump their kids before they can even have some semblance of financial security.

the idea of that is crazy to me because the culture i come from, and many of the cultures i grew up around, are the opposite. the children stay home as adults until they’re married or have a degree or becomes financially stable enough to leave on their own. you’d be considered a terrible parent who’s setting your kid up for failure (my culture is really critical and gossip-y, image is everything), and people would blame you if the child failed.

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[–]thelajestic1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah definitely it is a big difference. I've got a few friends who lived at home til they were married etc and it just is a really different dynamic. Mind you, I suppose you're more likely to get your kids looking after you when you're old if you've done the same for them throughout their life - my dad keeps joking he's going to move in with me in his old age so I can take care of him and I'm like - no chance!

i couldn’t even ride the train by myself until i was 16, i couldn’t imagine traveling 30 miles at 13/14 lol. idk if it’s because of culture or my dad’s authoritarian parenting style, but i was very sheltered.

In fairness in the US it's probably a bit different because most people have cars and are probably less likely to really use public transport, whereas that's how we mostly got around so 3 miles or 30 miles wouldn't make much difference.

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I suddenly understand u/reluctantly_red even better. Someone posted images of two very different female friends trying on the same outfits, and damn if the super curvy big girl doesn’t look much better than her insect stick bug of a friend

Completely unrelated, but one of the brands I work with sent me a big box of stuff as a thank you for being one of the more successful reps selling it, and one of the the things in there is a really nice aromatherapy scalp treatment. Just from taking off the top of the box, my whole place smells like a spa. I can’t wait to try it on the bf - he’s having a super shitty few weeks, so I’m going to give him a facial and a scalp treatment

Completely unrelated #3, but has anyone tried Dhos? My friend who owns a liquor store swears they’re amazing substitutes for liquor when you want a fancy cocktail but not a buzz

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[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]LowCredditshortcels are volcels 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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I am tired, so fucking tired, of people passing sexual/kink shaming as some type of "fight anti degeneracy".

Dude, people wanted to have free sex lives and started the sexual emancipation movement for that, they said everyone should have the sex life they want, and people gonna pikachu face when they realize that men and women have fucked up sexual fantasy?

Like damn, ofc anal wasnt a thing in the past....IT WAS SHAMED lol, like if i remember you could go in jail in the past for doing anal...lol...now that people are free to explore their sexuality they will want to try a lot of things, explore as much as they can, today eating a booty is some regular shit, it wasnt before....thats what happen when you let people explore their sexuality, they dont always want the vanilla stuff society push them to like....they have their own hidden desire they now can finally try.

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CICO is impossible to violate, as it's just the first law of thermodynamics. And while the CO part of the equation can be hard to calculate, it's not really relevant - its the difference between the CI and CO that is important.

...

So let's say you were to eat 4000 kcal of protein, and another person were to eat 4000 kcal of carbs, would they gain the same weight? Same calories right?

Or try eating 4000kcal of fructose vs 4000kcal of glucose, same thing right?

Just because you ingest X calories, doesn't mean you digest X calories, process X calories, or expend X calories. ALOT happens from the point you ingest the food to the point you're popping ATPs.

The food you eat affects your hormonal profile, your metabolism, how you process/store calories/fat. It is not at all calories in/calories out. It's like kindergarten level understanding, what goes up must come down... except for its far more complex than that.

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It seems women examine their instincts far less than men. See a guy, "he's creepy" and they don't examine that thought, the thought is enough to cement it as a reality.

It's like they see feelings like they see colors. The sky is blue when they look at it, if they get disgusted by a man crying they don't wonder why or try to fight that feeling he is now blue aka gross.

Men, by virtue of testosterone, learn early in life to examine they're instincts. They want to hit and take and challenge and at some point they are corrected and learn to examine that instinct and think "I feel like taking or hit but I know this is wrong"

This creates an automatic questioning of men's instincts, men don't just feel they almost always examine that feeling logically to see if it stands up to scrutiny.

I've never seen a woman seriously introspect about their instincts or feelings they just say things like "because evolution" or they might get kind of close by saying "why do I feel this way" in a post but then they react negatively to any comment that isn't in complete support of them being irrational.

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You refused to accept biological explanations. Evolutionary ones. RP ones.

No I did not. I accept the Evo theory that this is why women are more neurotic but that doesn't change anything.

Women being more mentally ill hypothetically helping them in the past is supposed to alter what?

And if what you were saying was true, women would be superior as single parents to men. But that's not the case, it's well documented children of single men are more intelligent less criminal and make more money in a lifetime.

Women's neuroticism may well have been useful at some point in the past, but now it causes them to kill their own children at higher rates than men, and have less educated more criminal children.

Your point is meaningless.

Yes men are more likely to abuse substances yet still report higher happiness as a group than women.

So I don't know what you think that proves. I didn't say all men were happier than all women, so again it's not really relevant. This isn't a case of me refusing to accept your theories as much as your theories are irrelevant to the point.

Women are less mentally sound. That's reality. When if it was useful when men made stone tools.

[–]GridReXX2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And if what you were saying was true, women would be superior as single parents to men. But that's not the case, it's well documented children of single men are more intelligent less criminal and make more money in a lifetime.

Link the data. Pretty sure when you examine it it’s a negligible subset of men who were widowed into a single fatherhood and they likely are from a higher SES background. “Single mothers” from lower SES backgrounds make up most of the data points and their issues stem from their lower SES background, not their gender.

Your point is meaningless.

It isn’t.

Yes men are more likely to abuse substances yet still report higher happiness as a group than women.

What does happiness have to do with mental wellness wholly? Drunk/high ppl coping are still by most people’s standards not most mentally fit, and I’m sure they are happy as hell when they’re sippin.

Women being more expressive about their feelings is normal. Men not expressing their feelings is normal too. No

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have no idea what SES means but single fathers make up one quarter of single parent homes and cannot be supposed to have all been widowed.

If we accept the correlation between criminality and poverty it's very easy to show single fathers produce less criminal children.

Nearly half of all single mothers live at or below the poverty line. The number for single fathers is half that at 24%.

The same pattern is reflected in poverty status across these household types. Almost one-fourth (24%) of single father households are living at or below the poverty level, compared with just 8% of married father households and fully 43% of single mother households.

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2018/dec/7/brookings-institute-study-finds-direct-connection-between-poverty-and-crime-rates/

This link illustrates the connection between poverty and crime.

I'm still searching for the link that directly associates single fathers with higher education and less criminality.

It isn’t.

Brilliant retort! Explain to me how neuroticism being helpful in the stone age is relevant to women's current mental health crisis?

The happiness thing was a crossover from a different convo, but I think you're making a false equivalence between prescribed medications for mental illness and men just enjoying intoxication more than women.

Probably has something to do with that neuroticism we have been speaking about.

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“trust your instincts” doesn’t mean “never question what you think, say, and do or ask yourself why.”

you realize you can be introspective and “trust your instincts” simultaneously?

introspection isn’t even a gendered thing. it’s something you were either blessed to understand from a very young age or it’s something you learned to do.

what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense to me. the overwhelming majority of people are not self-aware or introspective, and girls are corrected on their “instincts” too. not every woman has parents who coddle her and just let her do what she wants, it’s like you know one woman and decided her life is how we’re all living lmfao.

you really just used a lot of words to say “men are wonderful, women bad.” it’s okay if that’s what you wanna say, but at least own it dude.

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i once spoke to this 60-something year old lady who was telling me about her escapades with her fwb who really want to be her man, but she just wants sex. he’s some years younger than her.

she said he was her bf when she was young, but then she monkey branched to some other dude who was more put together. she said the ex came back around every so often to beg her to take him back all throughout her life.

she told me he came the night before her wedding to tell her she was making a huge mistake, and she really considered leaving with him. then they had great sex. the next morning, she realized she didn’t really want him like that and went off to get married. she said that was the last time she saw him romantically until after her husband died; and now that she’s a widow, she just keeps him around for sex and how she benefits from his simping.

i learned all this within the couple of hours i met this woman, and then never saw her again lmfaoooo

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Was listening to Steve Earle. One of his covers is about a Red Pill dream girl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRbu4KUiH6Q

Loretta

Oh Loretta she's a barroom girl
Wears them sevens on her sleeve
Dances like a diamond shines
Tell me lies I love to believe
Her age is always 22
Her laughing eyes a hazel hue
Spends my money like water falls
Loves me like I want her to

Oh, Loretta, won't you say to me
Darling, put your guitar on
Have a little shot of booze
Play a blue a and wailing song
My guitar rings a melody
My guitar sings, Loretta's fine
Long and lazy, blonde and free
And I can have her any time

Sweetest at the break of day
Prettiest in the setting sun
She don't cry when I can't stay
'Least not 'til she's all alone
Loretta, I won't be gone long
Keep your dancing slippers on
Keep me on your mind a while
I'll be back, babe, to make you smile
Songwriters: Townes Van Zandt
Loretta lyrics © Wixen Music Publishing

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I am pretty sure that the definition of beautiful isn't strictly related to physical appearance.

I know, I wasn't talking about looks. I meant cancer in the sense of being a toxic life-drain on those around them. Context matters, but I'm sure you've known people who fit the profile, regardless of context. People have agency, and context doesn't determine everything. Some people choose to be productive and positive, and some don't, in every context and class.

Their motives and rationalizations may be complex and interesting, which is why we love flawed fictional characters operating in morally ambiguous narratives; but "beautiful" almost certainly refers to inspiring positive feelings of admiration and instinctive attraction.

Flowers and car wrecks are both eyecatching, but only the former is beautiful.

[–]TheBookOfSeil0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I know, I wasn't talking about looks. I meant cancer in the sense of being a toxic life-drain on those around them.

That's still contextual though. People want to believe that everyone who they label as "bad" (usually because of one singular thing they did) has no good in them at all. They're just bad people and thats it. No more thought involved.

Context matters, but I'm sure you've known people who fit the profile, regardless of context.

Not really. I take an interest in getting to really know people and I still find something beautiful in everyone, even if parts of them suck.

Flowers and car wrecks are both eyecatching, but only the former is beautiful.

Not true. If you can't also see the beauty in chaos and destruction or discordance, then you're taking a biased view of what "beautiful" is, which is only the good, the physically pleasing, the positive, etc.

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Think about it moids: why should ANY foid worth her salt choose a pathetic weak m*le over a strong GOLDEN RETRIEVER? The GOLDEN RETRIEVER doesn't worry about silly things like "red flags" and "children" and "boob size" and "weight"; They see a tight, wet opening, they stick their dick in it, it feels good so they keep on going. They pound into your girlfriend with such force she is moaning, begging for more doggy cock. She is damn near pissing herself, but the GOLDEN RETRIEVER doesn't stop.

His knot swells. Your girlfriend, mind blanked by orgasmic bliss, is bound to the GOLDEN BULL for up to an hour while his Chad knot shrinks down, and her vaginal muscles milk every drop of GOLDEN RETRIEVER spunk. She will never look at you the same way again.

Sex doesn't feel the same. She is "tired" most nights, yet you can hear the whimpering and moans from the bathroom when she takes Sparky in the bathroom to "take a shit with company". She tells you to go in the other room and "jerk it or something". You are ashamed. You are weak. You are crushed. But she will never love you again. Sparky plays with his chew toy.

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Sure of course they do. However there are certain psychological weirdness is that coming to play for a lot of men when they have sex too soon. Especially if the first day and the first time were decent but not amazing. And sometimes a person is not having their best day or some circumstances around that date they weren’t getting to know one another more. When people get to know each other a bit and flirt more and play around more, The guy gets to see more of her value as an overall person. He could still pump and dump but the likelihood dramatically decreases. The reason being is the flipside of the coin. As the woman waits and gets to know the man a little better she can feel out if her tingles are increasing or decreasing so half the time they don’t even get to sex if she’s not feeling it on her end. He gets Pre pump dumped lol

*And I am talking about a handful of meetings if they don’t know each other previously already not three months or some ridiculous bullshit

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The thing is though if you want a boyfriend you’re gonna have to date around. I’ve said for years this is how women rack up counts, it’s not random hookups In nightclub bathrooms it’s regular dating.

this is true.

The women who do this tend to do it because they want to test him to see if he likes them for more thcan sex. I think this is flawed IMO, If he likes you it’s not gonna matter where you and what time you have sex. Waiting isnt going to save you from being pumped and dumped

i can agree with you to a degree, because waiting really doesn’t always save you from being pumped and dumped; but it also depends on how long the woman makes a guy wait. if she makes them wait for a decent amount of time (at least 6mo or more), she’ll weed out like 95%-99% of them depending on how long.

there can be other reasons too though, like religious reasons and personal values.

[–]MasterTeacher1231 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher1231 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think it’s excessive to the vast majority of people lol. When you say you didn’t find it hard to go 6 months, do you mean in the process of getting to know a guy? Every relationship I’ve ever had or sexual Partner we started screwing very early. Maybe not the first date but within a few meetings. The sexual chemistry and tension is often too much to ignore.

My GF perfect example, blowjob at my house on the first date, second date went to brunch she invited me back to her apartment and banged the shit out of me lol. That happened within 2 weeks of knowing each other. I don’t think I’m an outlier lol. So when I hear guys online say things like “bro we have been dating for 4 months and we haven’t had sex yet” it’s kind off confusing.

In regards to pumping and dumping and dude being a loser, I’m coming from this perspective. For example You have a guy who doesn’t really get any play from girls, he sucks at even “dumpster diving”.

Sharon is the first girl to give him any romantic attention in years, but she’s pretty much wants to wait months before sex. This isn’t ideal for Him but the making out and fondling that happens on these dates is better than getting nothing like he was the preovious 2 years. Lol So he will wait forever because has nothing better to do. It doesn’t mean he’s some saint for waiting.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think it’s excessive to the vast majority of people lol.

i agree with you lol

When you say you didn’t find it hard to go 6 months, do you mean in the process of getting to know a guy?

yes.

Every relationship I’ve ever had or sexual Partner we started screwing very early. Maybe not the first date but within a few meetings. The sexual chemistry and tension is often too much to ignore.

i can’t relate lol. it’s just not for me, personally.

My GF perfect example, blowjob at my house on the first date, second date went to brunch she invited me back to her apartment and banged the shit out of me lol. That happened within 2 weeks of knowing each other. I don’t think I’m an outlier lol. So when I hear guys online say things like “bro we have been dating for 4 months and we haven’t had sex yet” it’s kind off confusing.

you’re definitely not an outlier, some guys just don’t know how to deal with women and some women are just stingy with the pussy.

In regards to pumping and dumping and dude being a loser, I’m coming from this perspective. For example You have a guy who doesn’t really get any play from girls, he sucks at even “dumpster diving”.

Sharon is the first girl to give him any romantic attention in years, but she’s pretty much wants to wait months before sex. This isn’t ideal for Him but the making out and fondling that happens on these dates is better than getting nothing like he was the preovious 2 years. Lol So he will wait forever because has nothing better to do. It doesn’t mean he’s some saint for waiting.

i mean sharon should know a guy with no options may very well use her as a placeholder for consistent companionship (or even sex), but if she didn’t know that before then she knows now.

no matter how you date, you’ll always be taking a risk. depending on the person, some risks are worse than others.

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My mom just did it and I had to help her navigate around the system since She ESL and doesn’t understand a lot of stuff. In Texas you have to file the paperwork first. I think you can print it out from the state website and mail or deliver it. An attorney isn’t necessary but It was critical for my mom to have an attorney because of her lack of knowledge of English and the law. Then there’s a 60 day cooling off period where you have to wait. Then the papers get served to the other spouse. If he signs then it goes to a judge to execute and the divorce is done. He doesn’t sign then it’s a huge pain in the ass and the spouse who wants a divorce basically has to chase them until they sign or take them to court. The separation of assets is another step but honestly I haven’t gotten there yet because they are still trying to sell their house so I’m just letting the lawyer deal with their crazy dumb Russian asses

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And I’m saying that you can’t trust what a woman thinks is big because dicks look different on various men even if they’re the same measurable size. So while it seems that women are frequently finding what they describe as big doesn’t mean that they really are. I’m not a good example because I’ve seen hundreds so I’m going to have come across a couple. I just think that length is a big area of confusion because a lot of women think of length as the very bottom of the base where the balls are, and are also seeing the guy super hard vs Him tugging at his dick to make it hard enough to fill out a size questionnaire. Plus a few other factors like women’s inherent spacial reasoning is weaker on average. I really don’t think it’s a big deal but men sure do love talking and thinking and bringing their dicks into as many conversations as possible.

[–]AidsVictim1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Either the statistics are fucked,

Maybe, most of the source studies aren't great and self reported is completely useless but I feel it's still more accurate than whatever numbers get thrown around by women (and men) in dick chat. Even in porn most men are under 8 inches, porn producers literally sort through hundreds/thousands of guys to find a handful of dudes that size.

women can't measure for shit

It's mostly this. People aren't great at eyeballing measurements unless they do it for work and women are worse at it on average it seems like (men also round up and bullshit of course).

But

or big dicked guys get around more and end up overrepresented in women's sexual histories.

it's also this to a lesser degree. Still, I think women saying they've fucked multiple dudes with 8 inches are either very "lucky" or bad at guessing sizes.

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Women constantly disagree with each other, but refuse to acknowledge it. So instead of saying 'no I think you're wrong, here's why', they say shit like 'OMG I KNOW RIGHT... but then this other time...'. They pretend to be in agreement, and then disagree.

It makes zero sense to me because it makes communicating near impossible. It's why women flip out when men just straight up say 'no, I disagree'. 'Why are you so mean, why are you so hateful, etc...'. Funny thing is, ask them about it after, and they won't remember a thing that didn't confirm their cognitive bias.

As a whole I'm certain women are completely incapable of efficient communication. It's why they spend so much time talking. It takes them 20x the words to say anything because they have to spend all this time/energy/words just to dance around each other's emotions.

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I have a cousin who I love to death, that’s my guy. He’s been my video game partner since the Clinton administration, we play sports together and he’s a general funny dude. But he’s a bum, he never worked lol, he just plays video games, smokes weed, and hangs out at home living with his parents. He’s 36 right now. However he always got pussy, even with really cute girls out of his league, since I've known him.

There’s always been a debate between his parents though. His dad my uncle will always be like “my son is a loser yet he gets all these good girls, I don’t know what they see in him. He’s not doing anything with his life”.

My aunt will always respond back with “nope, I love our son but he’s a bum and if you’re a girl and you’re sleeping with I know you ain’t shit either. I don’t care what degree/job you have, or what family you come from, you’re not nice or good if you deal with our son”. Lol

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Women are cleaning up the poop of elders and infirmed in assisted living.

But, ya know, I'm sure if it were up to men they would institute a Midsommar modus operandi where once you turn 57 you hurl yourself off the side of a cliff and if the fall doesn't kill you your fellow community members will bash your head in. I know (some) men hate caring for people who aren't of value. Better they die!

It's mostly women who were contracted as maintenance workers for the office building I worked at.

The city I’m from actually had so many female mass transit and school bus drivers.

And so forth.

edit: I may have missed the crux of this post. Is it that trade/blue collar jobs more employed by women make good money? Nursing / Physician’s Assistant are the only ones I can think of. Hairdressers with consistent clientele can earn comparable to a a male blue collar job equivalent. But many of those jobs seem to only make make good money if they’re in HCOL areas. And I’m not sure I consider nurses, PA, teachers, etc. as “blue collar.” I consider LPNs and orderlies as blue collar.

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Exactly! Every mechanic/plumber/electrician ever is offering a “luxury” service. Do it yourself if you’re really bout it, bout it.

That’s what I was getting at with this:

(Also who decides what’s a utility or luxury. I could say having paved roads is a luxury 🧐)

I think this is just a way for people to feel smarter or more achieved/accomplished than others.

“Well my job requires industry knowledge.”

Most jobs/trades do. Most jobs require experience and nuance to be excellent at the service.

Is it bragging rights over who has more certifications? Barriers to entry wrt competency and intellect? And if that’s the case that’s just “blue collar” version of elitism. There are countless variables outside of one’s own “work ethic” that may lead to them “accomplishing” more or less in life than others.

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my wife maybe gets her hair cut a couple of times a year

Yes, that’s normal. Women get their hair cut about once every 6 to 12 weeks

How about you? I’m assuming you’re not bald or growing your hair like a cult leader lol. Men generally get their hair cut ever 2 to 4 weeks

these are all luxuries

Some are

But things like hair dresser is not - everyone gets their hair cut. 70% of a salon’s business is color, so most people are getting their hair colored too

Massage therapists and aestheticians often take medical insurance and work with physicians (not just GPs, but especially plastic surgeons, chiropractors, sports medicine, physical therapists, etc)

Nail techs do a big business with runners/endurance athletes and women who are very pregnant and can’t reach their own feet

House cleaners do a surprising amount of work with people who are disabled

Seamstresses are very common - I’m 5’2, I spend $15 to get every pair of pants I own tailored so they’re not dragging on the ground. This is normal. Men get suits tailored all the time

Are there people who use these services for luxury? Of course. Is that the meat and bones of their business? No

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I find that no one here who engages in this discussion actually has kids in school. So allow me to weigh in from my real experience.

The problems with the American education system today:

number one is the teachers union. Enough said.
second the focus in on test scores because test scores determine funding. Too much focus on memorization and repetition and not enough on true learning and critical thought and analysis.
if you’re lucky enough to live in a rich area where the schools are well funded by tax dollars (another problem with the system) you get more of the latter. If not, you’re sending your kid to a fancy day care.
third, you’re not wrong that the lack of discipline in schools is an issue. The biggest way this manifests itself is in the tracking of kids with behavioral issues. Instead of working with these kids, schools toss them out or transfer them to holding bins like vocational schools.
schools are not set up give girls a leg up. Girls simply study more than boys.
we do need a new model because the truth is American schools are failing boys and girls. Specialized charter schools have had varying success, especially with kids at risk. But charter schools directly threaten the union.

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How about the fear of parental litigation? I don’t have kids but I have a few friends who are teachers. One of them does nothing all day But babysit a 13-year-old special-needs girl. In fact she has three teachers dedicated to her. This is just a regular public school and they haven’t even been able to get consent to transfer her to an alternative program, except when she self harmed and gets put into a institution for spurts of time. This girl refuses to do her work she regularly destroys property. A few weeks ago she came up to my friend with scissors and cut out a big chunk of her hair. She got absolutely no repercussions from it. They didn’t even have her apologize to my friend.

Another friend had a student who was quickly going blind from some type of congenital affliction. The kids parents refuse to believe that their daughter was going blind and putting her into a program designed to enable blind students to flourish. They made my friend redesign her entire classroom and curriculum to accommodate her. Out of 20 something students the girl was still having trouble and falling behind so the parents basically came up to the school every single day to have a meeting between her and the administration where they berated themFor not doing enough for the kid even though a special program would have helped her and the little girl was more than willing to go into one.

These two girls are some of the most compassionate kind hearted people I know. I feel really bad for them having to deal with this because of domineering parents and fearful administration. I’m pretty sure Texas has a teachers union but is it maybe not that powerful that they have not been able to get that union to stand up for them?

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Oh yeah, I'm not saying that middle school and high school aren't important in the sense of gaining valuable knowledge and generating social activity and I think most boys are more than fine with going to school for those reasons alone. I just kinda meant in the grand scheme of things secondary education is kinda just losing it's overall importance, public schooling especially (in some ways it's more or less just a daycare).

But it's easy enough to just phone it in and still get what you need out of school. I don't consider myself some anti-school intellectual (a la Elon Musk) but I'd say I'm perceptive enough to realize that unless you actually want to go to college school and grades more or less mean jack shit.

Grades in school act more as a self-contained hierarchy that tries to foster both competition and personal growth. And that works for those that actually care about grades and use that as a metric of success, but after a while you realize they don't mean much and aren't really a measure of your understanding or ability. The difference between an A and B mean a lot if you care about your GPA but doesn't really say anything about how well an individual understands a topic.

This is true even in college, one of the best examples I can think of personally is how me and a friend of mine were in a writing intensive course. End of the year, final writing research assignment due, we had 2 weeks to work on and submit it:

My friend used up the entire 2 weeks, she made graphic organizers, did rough drafts (had me read over some), compiling good research and bibliographies, etc. Me? I wrote the entire paper the day/night before it was due, proofread it then submitted it. She got a 92 and I got an 89... the glaring difference in amount of work that we put in accounted for a 3 point difference, there's obviously a bunch of other factors related to that but you look at it you can't help but see a problem.

Tl:dr; School kinda just sucks ass in general, boys and girls figure it out around the same time, the boys (and honestly some of the girls I've seen) that struggle likely just don't feel like putting forth the effort to fake it.

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[–]cloudydays841 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah, that's one of the factors that I accounted for like maybe there's just that big a difference in how smart we were and how differently we just lay things out to be done. I've always been a huge procrastinator when it comes to schoolwork but it's never really hurt me because I usually have a good sense of how much effort and time I need to put into an assignment. My older sister especially can't do that because putting stuff off gives her really bad anxiety. And I usually don't consider myself a smart cookie but I think I'm at least pretty capable when I put my mind to it.

So I do take that evaluation with a grain of salt. But honestly I just think schooling itself is relatively so bad and formulaic(at least in the U.S.) that it's more or less random and inefficient in how it evaluates people, especially when it comes to grades. There are "smart" people that kinda read the trends and slide by easily, but there are also people that are fully capable they just don't fit the mold that school requires so they kinda just fall behind.

Like one kid I knew in high school totally aced all his exams and quizzes, but he was borderline failing by the end of the class because he practically never handed in homework or participated in class, and the class was weighted in a way that people who may struggle with exams/quizzes could still pass if they did their homework, classwork, and participated, which I don't consider to be a bad thing because there are kids that aren't good test takers but it kinda puts the rules out his favor.

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You’re actually very wrong there - I mean, Linda Evangelista very famously wouldn’t get out of bed for less than $10K a day

I believe you’re a lot younger than me, so I understand where you’re coming from. The age of the model was over before you would have been aware of it (replaced by celebrities and - more recently - influencers)

But from a strictly budgetary perspective, I used to hire female athletes (even star athletes) and male models for press events because they were inexpensive. Top female models and top athletes can easily cost a campaign millions - they actually have similar per diems. Same with high profile musicians

I honestly never heard of Gisele before Tom Brady

I don’t understand how that’s possible - she was one of the more male-friendly models out there. She ended the heroin-chic Kate Moss look and ushered in the healthy body type, she was a Victoria’s Secret angel (and men loved them), and was on the cover of Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition

Even today, she’s worth more - and makes more - than Brady

You may have never heard of her, but you’re an outlier

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Ok, we got u/gigababejfl_ as well as /u/rft24 are nagging me about the /u/Ladyofblades article that she apparently only read half way, because the other half is pretty damning for females.

So for transparency sake this is from the article in question:

An even more dramatic change happened for women: the percentage of young high-earning women marrying young high-earning men increased from just under 13 percent to 26.4 percent, while the percentage of rich young women marrying poor young men halved.

top decile males marrying bottom decile females went from 12.8% to 10.7%
top decile females marrying bottom decile males went from 11% to 5.6%

That is to say, if you're going to interpret that data the way Ladyofblades did, you have to necessarily say that females are 2x as guilty as males.

So read the goddamn article first ladies, and then pile on me. I'm not the one arguing in bad faith.

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Just because every woman participates in the hypergamy olympics doesn’t mean they’ll all get a medal. In other words, men are going to marry people on a similar level, but women will still try to climb the ranks by any means necessary even when success is unlikely.

This affects dating more than actual relationships. Women’s hypergamy can be attributed to a lot of it.

A lot of men don’t have sufficient access to women because women have their eyes set on something better. For women, they don’t get their desired commitment and are often treated poorly because the value they place on men they desire isn’t reciprocated to them.

This has only gotten worse due to women’s advancement in society and social media/dating apps.

Ultimately women have to “settle” with their looks match and it’s a hard pill to swallow for some who didn’t place in the hypergamy olympics.

[–]rft247 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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https://ideas.time.com/2012/03/15/why-men-are-attracted-to-high-earning-women/

We got the first indication of a major shift back in 2001 with a study by University of Texas at Austin psychologist David Buss that showed that when men ranked traits that were important in a marital partner, there had been a striking rise in the importance they gave to women’s earnings and a sharp drop in the value they placed on domestic skills. Similarly, University of Wisconsin demographer Christine Schwartz noted in a 2010 study in the American Journal of Sociology that “men are increasingly looking for partners who will ‘pull their own weight’ economically in marriage” and are willing to compete for them.

Indeed, men may be readier to cede their role as breadwinner than they are given credit for. Last year, Stanford University economist Ran Abramitzky, working with two European colleagues, published a fascinating study that suggests exactly this. Looking at demographic records for the French population after World War I, they found that men in regions that had suffered higher mortality rates (and were therefore short on men) were more able to “marry up.” Given the opportunity to marry into a life with more resources and prospects, the men hastened to do so. To Abramitzky, the surprise was “how flexible this marriage market was” and how quickly men were able to adapt to the changing demographics.

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Because a lot of men are invasive. They are hateful. Like actually harmful toxic human beings. While many of you pretend like its not that bad and "not all men", on this side of things all we see are the stats and your inaction. It is illogical to expect the victims of this shit to be friendly when discussing men. ESPECIALLY on this website which has SEVERAL TIMES the content against women and not even for invasive hatefulness like men inflict on women. For NOT FUCKING men. For having self esteem, jobs, options.

It actually blows my mind how some of you come on here and ignore the gory shit written by men every day and have your feelings hurt by FDS.

FDS is on a leash due to a lot of shit rules that are enforced on them but not the males of Reddit. If it were up to be there would be absolutely no filter. If women can survive what men have said and done then you all can handle a little FDS not kissing your ass for existing.

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Actually, yes I do. I see men renaming things, calling for "grey areas", calling everything a fake accusation, ignoring it, blaming women, and codefying it into this society to the degree that we have to keep updating laws to protect women and girls. Its all over porn. Literally all over and sexual violence is normalized.

If there is one thing you will never be able to do is show an instance where men are not worse across the board.

For example. I tell people hypergamy makes sense ALL the time. There is no need for me to justify the obvious and I see no reason to apologize for what is natural. You know what men do when women are upfront about this? Just look around at the obscene jealousy and hatred and sometimes violence when women are upfront and clear about what they like

You can't handle the truth and then act like we are the problem "justifying" shit. Letting you believe what you want is just easier and safer.

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So I got into it with a commie Vaush fan in the YT comments section.

Him- "Work is oppressive, you literally either have to work to make enough money to buy food so you don't die. It's just do work or die. Fuck capitalism."

Me- "Yup, just like how before humans created jobs it was "Do hunting and gathering or die." Nature is oppressing us!"

Him- "I mean, it is, but if only there was something different today compared to thousands of years ago. Like, IDK, plenty of resources to house and feed everyone."

Me- "Who will harvest them? Who will plant them? Who will transport them? Who will make sure certain people aren't taking too much and causing others to starve?"

Him- "We'll invent robots to do all that stuff."

Me- "Who will design, manufacture, and repair the robots? Who will mine the materials to produce them with? Who will place requisitions? Who will keep the production facilities clean?"

Him- "I'm not saying everyone can do nothing. Under socialism, a fraction of the labor force that we have now will have to do that stuff, obviously."

Me- "And there it is, your governmentally- enforced serf class that must work so that all of society doesn't die. How liberal of you. Others need to work so you don't have to, because it's ever so oppressive."

Him- "Okay, I'm done. You're clearly not arguing in good faith. Fuck off fashie."

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Was this last year a good example? Most folks couldn’t even go anywhere or felt like they couldn’t.

Anyway, it’s not about altruism.

While some people might be vegetables and live off of state funded cheese and shelter. Enough others want a higher quality of life and will work for it.

To put it more bluntly, a monthly UBI may afford some people who have always caught the bus a 2007 Ford Taurus and maybe a moment of economic reprieve from feeling like you miss one of your 3 shifts you may be on the street. Or a may afford a minimalist bum to continue to do that. Or afford a recovering addict or mentally unstable person the basic needs not to languish on the curb.

For other people that Ford Taurus was never enough. They still want the Audi. Or Subaru. They still want their vacations and many luxuries. They will work for this. Not sure what people who are against a UBI are actually against. I for one want the people who are bus drivers and teachers to continue to do that. We need those people to not be miserable not constant on the verge of revolt for a functional society.

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True, there are pros and cons to both. Some guys will get attached, others will feel an ego boost that they got it for free while other guys have to invest more first. Anecdotally it does seem like girls are more likely to want more or agree to more with their fuckbuddies than guys are and that guys are more likely to find themselves being friendzoned. I think most guys would say its easier for them to find women that want relationships with them than women who would fuck them no strings attached.

Also from an evolutionary perspective and even today casual sex is still riskier for a woman than relationship sex so in a way its sort of saying that guy is worth taking that extra risk on.

Im probably too anxious and neurotic to feel comfortable with casual sex but from a pure ego perspective it really does seem more of a value selection to be viewed as fuckbuddy and then gravitate to relationship after rather than to be relationship right out of the gate.

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I could say the same about men having the audacity to be broke everywhere but I understand that what gets women off isn't why men are alive. Entitlement is a mf.

No, men are just not the center of their universe anymore. Men did everything to convince woman all feminine duties are low value and a nuisance. Men campaign against marriage, work to change laws that benefit marriage, and the country is now godless.

If the only way to get those things was being a certain way for a high value situation I'm sure you'd be seeing more of what you want. But that's not the world.

If men are going to demonize everything about being a woman while making coomer life the norm, not really sure what you expect. Women to kill themselves to pay their half of a date and deal with manchildren

Be high value and date any of the many women who easily clear your standards. Bitching about the ones who don't is a waste of your own time

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Funny, I just finished watching a movie set in 1911, based loosely on a true story An upper class woman has been dumped by her fiancé and is contemplating marrying a much older, professional man who is enamored of her, who she does not love. Her reason?

“I still need to eat”

Yeah, we give birth to half formed creatures who can’t come close to taking care of themselves for a decade. This alone makes us pretty unique in the animal world Both mother and child needed a good provider ...and probably a wider family unit too.

Most of us today want to live lives of comfort, two cars, good schools for the kids, piano lessons, nice houses with central air and heat. Lots of people can’t pull this off unless the wife works too. Unless you can provide the American dream with a sahm, it seems logical to me that men would be similarly interested in their partners income. But no, despite the fact that the economically advantaged have less divorce and more successful offspring, men here continue to insist that looks and youth are all they want. Oh well....

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[–]Ppdebateismental2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You know in reading your comments and thinking about this more, and also with the convo with wekacuck, it brings up several questions.

I mean we don’t need a study to know high earning men are high value partners, we only need eyes and some common sense. But it does bring up interesting questions.

First, the chicken and egg effect....some of the men might earn more because they are married, not get married because they earn more. If you are trying to get the last kid though college, you aren’t retiring early.

Second, there is an age gap where women are a bit younger and men are a bit older when they marry. Young people make less, older people make more. I could only read the synopsis, but if this census data includes everyone say.. over 18? It’s going to include a lot of broke young people who have not yet begun to make money AND who have not yet married. That’s not an indication they are low value, just that they are young. Due to the age gap, that’s a lot more single broke men than single broke women.

Third, looking at divorce statistics these days is problematic, because so many people simply aren’t getting married at all, and those people are overwhelmingly low income, especially the women. I could quite honestly say”the divorce rate for twelve year olds who identify as transgendered is zero”. True statement. That doesn’t mean that the most stable marriages will be to 12 year old transgendered children. If low income women are the very least likely to be married and high income women are the most likely to be married, then clearly a higher divorce rate among high income women isn’t the end of the story. You can’t be a divorce statistic if you never marry in the first place

Lies, damn lies and statistics. But there are many ways to present raw data which can skew the understanding of the underlying cultural phenomena

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[–]gigababejfl_1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Easy to meet. Most women on earth have a period in their life in which they are both young and attractive enough to attract the men that would make that kind of life possible.

Really? We have a plethora of marriage minded men with jobs and intentions of marrying and offering this type of life? To most women? Where? And by most women, you also mean "tough shit" to all the women who don't fall under this claim?

On this we agree. If a woman wants that kind of life she must treat the project of getting that life as one would treat a life long career. It is a serious thing that requires preparation, dedication and the effort required to look for and exploit chances that are not always present.

Because of the slim pickings, it would still be very dumb for a young woman to ignore pursuits of independence. The reality is men prove to be unreliable all the time and even if they are reliable, shit happens. They die, they fall out of love. And then what? After a certain point, being young and beautiful isnt an available option. So dedicate those few years and hope you choose a man who will be there like he claimed no matter what

It is still easier than having an actual career even if many women don't preffer it.

Having a career is easier. The parameters are clear and i so long as you can produce you will be compensated. You're essentially saying "trust men" to follow through for life. The people who abandon children and organize against marriage and family. The people who allow the worst men to be the loudest. Trust men to remain faithful and provide and tough shit if he changes, lied, or died.

Lol nah. The bird in a gilded cage is still in a cage. If woman could trust men like that, maybe. But look what happens to so many of the women who do

No thanks lol

[–]Barely-moral1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And by most women, you also mean "tough shit" to all the women who don't fall under this claim?

To be honest... well yes. The women that wasted their youth are out of luck and the few women that are actually unattractive are without much hope.

We have a plethora of marriage minded men with jobs and intentions of marrying and offering this type of life?

For the right woman, yes. Most men would be willing to give that offer. Most women are not worth the effort. That is the reason the women that put the effort required to be worth it pretty much have no competition.

To most women?

No. Most women are not worth the effort. But most women can be worth the effort. Its just that most women don't like to act/live in the kind of way that would make them the kind of woman a man is happy to do everything for.

Because of the slim pickings, it would still be very dumb for a young woman to ignore pursuits of independence.

It depends on her priorities and how much does she want to live the "traddcon" life. If a woman really wants to have that kind of life as in she can't imagine herself being truly happy in any other way then she would be stupid not to give her all to the attepmt.

If the woman is able to be happy having other kind of life then sure, it is safer and smarter to be independent.

The reality is men prove to be unreliable all the time and even if they are reliable, shit happens. They die, they fall out of love.

I would call that an acceptable risk to be mitigated through vetting and being careful. If the woman is risk adverse she would disagree with me.

Having a career is easier. The parameters are clear and i so long as you can produce you will be compensated.

I think you are confusing "easier" with "easier to understand" and/or "more reliable"

When I say it is easier I am saying that the ammount of effort and time required to succeed in being a traditional SAHW/M is lesser than the ammount of time and effort required to have a career. I don't deny that in a career the parameters are more clar and it seems more reliable. I just don't see how that means anything to how easy/hard it is to have a career.

You're essentially saying "trust men" to follow through for life.

A properly vetted man is more trustworthy than anything else.

The people who abandon children and organize against marriage and family.

They do that because they lack the incentive to do otherwise. It is easy to control a man to do what you want, all you have to do is to give them the right rewards when he does the thing you want him to do. That an patience.

Men today are not being adequately rewarded for being pro family/ pro marriage/ pro children... so they are not. Give men rights over their children, make marriages/families worth the efforts and men will continue to support them as they did when those things were worth the effort.

The people who abandon children and organize against marriage and family.

I understand your point. I am just saying that I also understand men that don't see enough of a reward/incentive to give women what they seem to want. I tell you something, you can trust men to act in their own interests, so build the right incentive structure and the man living in it will do whatever you want him to do.

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I wonder what it would take to get men to stop their utter absolute bullshit for once

Just because you care about how much money men make, doesn't mean they care about how much you make.

The gender that does not carry children doesn't care about securing finances? Well color me surprised. I suppose living for pussy doesn't leave much time for practicality. Must be nice. The female sex can't afford to be mindless in this way. We all see what happens to the women who listen to men manipulate them out of having to play their role as a provider. Women will sit here and say "men like titties, I better make them look good." LVM will say "one of my functions is being a provider so if she cares about my ability to make money she is a gold digging whore"

Even saying shit like that should be a red flag for a guy. Unlike women, men don't love their partners because they're rich.

Yea. Men don't love their partners because they are rich which is why gold digging men always cheat. No, men fall "in love" with attractive women who might fuck them until that "love" mysteriously vanishes for another young attractive woman, or porn, or whatever autistic obsession men ruin relationships with.

Imagine being this sanctimonious about love when at least loving a provider for allowing you and your children peace makes sense. What you call male "love" for women isn't love. Surely an adult, even a male itt, can understand that.

Men like to marry girls that they love, not someone who's obsessed about income and what they bring or don't bring to the table.

Decent men, sure. The men who talk out their ass and likely to end up here like to marry people who will pander to them and fuck them until she can't stand him anymore.

Decent men don't need to lie about women. They are in a mental space for marriage. LVM don't do that - they undermine any possibility of anything real by romanticizing their elementary lust and denying the blood, sweat, and tears women pour for the NON rich men they love.

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Probably said that to head off the race realist types.

That said anyone who passed HS biology already knows women have smaller brains.

I say this all the time but most people are clueless about “research” that comes out of academia. Most of it is either crap because someone needed to publish to comply with a funder demand or university press policy or a piece that is intended to inform further research and not meant to stand alone. These days when there are a billion people running websites for the sole purpose of ad money, everyone’s looking for content to justify their existence and they’ll take anything they can find and artificially prop it up as “new controversial research” for the clicks.

Every page in the internet with the word “study” on it and the name of a person with a fancy university title is not necessarily groundbreaking or even legit.

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lmfao, i really wish there was a way to make it so we’d know whether or not a user is from the us or another western country or not.

it’s really annoying to get into arguments with people who don’t seem to understand anything about how anything works here or seem to live in a totally different reality, try to explain what seems like the obvious to any westerner, and then find out they’re from a totally different country.

not saying they shouldn’t be allowed to engage, but this is an american-based platform and we are discussing dynamics that are completely different outside of the western world; some of these things are even specific to the us. it would just be more convenient to know so we can choose to debate with someone who’s more likely to actually understand.

the others are just... some type of mentally off. some of the comments i receive here are just so out of touch with reality, it leaves me speechless and without the patience to even attempt to debunk make-believe, pseudoscientific, absolutely nonsensical concepts. you can’t fight nonsense with logic, the nonsense won’t listen.

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i don’t think it has to be. like i said, we’re discussing dynamics that are completely different outside of the western world. that includes the areas you’re talking about, but there are also times where things will be specific to one’s country.

for example: the other day, i was arguing with someone about how it’s not logical to say money doesn’t matter and not consider finances when marrying someone; and the person said it doesn’t matter.

i asked if he’d still be able to take care of his child if he or his wife lost their jobs, he said yes because they have a program in their country (i think sweden?) that would take care of them even if both didn’t work. well things work totally different in the us and being poor here is awful, so of course you can’t just ignore finances entirely when you want a family.

it’s not a huge gap, but it’s still enough of a difference that could’ve explained why the commenter doesn’t seem to understand a different perspective.

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Women bully each other different then men. Usually by gossip and rumor spreading

In these workplaces the types of people who get bullied are usually

Incompetent workers Weirdos Shy/reserved

And attractive women can fall in any of these categories

For women being attractive it put’s an extra lens on them. You’ll be surprised how many coworkers will target them even more out of jealousy.

It’s like a double edge sword for attractive women. They have the ability to charm everyone and turn then into ass kissers or be that annoying chick “who think she’s cute” I’ve seen in countless times.

Also Promiscuous women get bullied so often and out in the open that it shouldn’t even need to be discussed.

Every conventionally attractive women I’ve worked with in management position has had the slut/whore rumor pinned on her. Without exception.

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I'm a horrible person again, I think I'm about to break a girl's heart, and it's my fault. I knew better than to sleep with her.

There's another woman that I feel more of a connection with, who is taken, so I moved on. She (the taken woman) said she'd understand if I had to "fulfill my needs," just please don't tell her. She'd still want me, but admits it'd still hurt.

So after a sketchy interaction/red flag story on her part, basically reaffirming she's never/has no real intentions of leaving, (or so it appears, she could have not went the extra step she did for SO) I saw another woman.

Been seeing her for a few days, and I think the other woman may've seen her car here. Now she's basically promising me/trying to sell me on she's going to meet me next week. Before, it was going to be about another month, b/c of a schedule change she was waiting on.

Now all of a sudden, when there's another woman actually involved, she wants to escalate/expedite this. Part of me doesn't want to give her the satisfaction, but the other part still wants her. And another part feels guilty AF for the woman who is looking at me the same way I look at her.

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Chaotic Good: Xenofeminists

Ours is a world in vertigo. It is a world that swarms with technological mediation, interlacing our daily lives with abstraction, virtuality, and complexity. XF constructs a feminism adapted to these realities: a feminism of unprecedented cunning, scale, and vision; a future in which the realization of gender justice and feminist emancipation contribute to a universalist politics assembled from the needs of every human, cutting across race, ability, economic standing, and geographical position. No more futureless repetition on the treadmill of capital, no more submission to the drudgery of labour, productive and reproductive alike, no more reification of the given masked as critique. Our future requires depetrification. XF is not a bid for revolution, but a wager on the long game of history, demanding imagination, dexterity and persistence.

El Oh El

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Mostly agree. But I’m looking at fuck zone as you and the person start dating and seem to be establishing a romantic bond, going out, coming entrenched in one another’s life and social groups, and when the conversation comes up he doesn’t want to get serious even though he’s been acting like a boyfriend and getting girlfriend benefits. It’s brutal, it hurts.

Starting a known casual thing and getting the tingles sucks but it’s kind of your own fault, just gotta deal with it, or don’t do casual.

Being friend zoned is always your own fault because if you don’t sexually pursue the girl that you’re interested in and haven’t shot your shot, You are consciously wasting a bunch of your own time. Any man can get out of the friend zone very quickly by making moves. If she says no and Dangles Any kind of carrots drop her immediately and move onto the next. I’ve spent months getting close with a guy in every way including friendship lovers companions only to be told they don’t want to commit. That’s a triple slap. Friend zone is a single slap.

Yes I understand that a woman can demand commitment before sex but I like to test my partners out too without commitment on my end.

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Title	Weekly Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	9
Comments	3532
Date	May 10, 2021 8:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/n9eiy3/weekly_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/weekly-community-chat-megathread.757836 https://theredarchive.com/post/757836

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