Not all psychopathic men are master manipulators. Lots of women date guys who are walking red flags.

pop442 · 2023-11-07T12:52:16+00:00

I agree.

But it's hard for people to notice the red flags in people they find attractive in general.

If Chris Brown looked like Rod Wave, his career would've died in 2011.....

Notanothrshitthrow · 2023-11-07T11:46:34+00:00

Like always, it's going to be true for some. It's pretty common for women I know to have a friend who picks the obviously wrong guy every time. Some people are just attracted to the wrong things.

To say this is true for all women would be a complete disservice. Most women have their dud exes who they thought were great at the beginning but turned out to be an arsehole. Hell, it's true for men too.

TheCaribbeanRedditor · 2023-11-07T14:47:46+00:00

One of the worse things that people do is rush into a serious relationship without properly knowing the partner, and sometimes having kids. It takes probably a good 6 months of dating someone before you START to see all the negative character traits but by then you're already in top deep and the sunk cost fallacy sets in

SlashCo80 · 2023-11-07T11:57:33+00:00

In my experience, women who pick assholes are generally young and immature, have emotional issues, or are assholes themselves. Like attracts like. Or if the guy is hot/rich/popular enough, the thought of being "the one" who is with him will override everything, and they convince themselves he'll be nice to them.

bluestjuice · 2023-11-07T14:27:52+00:00

Eh, most people are not raging dickheads all the time, to everyone. Even the people who are not good at hiding their unsavory characteristics are generally a mixed bag of charming and awful. Women are just as prone to the same errors in judgment and thought fallacies as anyone, and in particular the early phase of a relationship is prime time for the nicer qualities someone possesses combined with their own hormone cocktail screaming at them in their bloodstream to persuade them that any character flaws are less significant than they really are.

Rotten dudes don’t have to be perfect masterminds of deception because the people they get together with are also not perfect actors. Everyone is trying to make decent life choices and meet their own needs but not everyone is particularly good at it.

curious_life_asdf · 2023-11-07T17:58:11+00:00

People who grow up in dysfunctional homes date walking red flags, period.

Lina-Inverse · 2023-11-07T12:55:25+00:00

I know a woman who cheated and broke off an engagement to leave for a guy whose own mother (yes the guy's own mother!) warned her was an overall bad person just like his father (who the mother divorced). All her friends warned her about the guy too.

She still got with him, got physically abused. Still married him (!) abuse continued, had kids (!), abuse continued, and eventually divorced.

And yes she liked him because he was nice to her (at the time)

That changed as soon as bridges with the ex-fiance were permanently burnt and he had moved on and was out of the picture and she was now fully dependent on the abusive new guy... which she was also warned would happen.

Some people aren't very bright.

Desperate_Audience96 · 2023-11-07T15:22:51+00:00

The brutal truth is that there are good men out there for every woman looking for a good man. The problem is, the majority of women who want a "good man" on paper are not physically attracted to these types of men because the "good" traits that they have typically come off as "unattractive" in real life to most women. Women definitely do have it easier, they just think they don't because their physical attraction standards are much higher than men's are and refuse to actually go after the good men because they appear as not being "alpha" enough for them because of their good traits.

begayallday · 2023-11-07T15:00:09+00:00

The only women I know who consistently go for terrible men have seriously fucked up backgrounds, like being raised in foster care, and/or childhood sexual or physical abuse. Some people are able to come back from that kind of adversity and be okay. Other people are just broken from it and aren’t able to see that, let alone change it.

gntlbastard · 2023-11-07T12:32:09+00:00

I suspect that the only way women can deal with the fact that they were dumb enough to date the meathead is by making him out to be a master manipulator. Otherwise she would have to confront the very real truth that she was an idiot.

AreOut · 2023-11-07T14:01:47+00:00

women conflate red flags with fun, that's all there is to it

shonenhikada · 2023-11-07T14:34:25+00:00

https://twitter.com/GotPickup/status/1719686964679782462

This Asian girl kind of directly points out why women will ignore red flags. As she said, there are Chads who will list they don't want kids on their dating profile. And yet, women who do want kids will still go out with them for dates/relationships. The reality is that women find the vast majority of men physically unattractive. Recall, multiple dating studies where women rate 80% of men below average, while male curve was more evenly distributed.

So when women find a guy that they find physically attractive (usually top 10-20% in genetics). They will ignore all red flags because there is no one else she can be with in her mind. The only reason the rest of guys get any play is because women eventually want family, to be provided for and have kids. And thus, will turn to the best men in the 80% that is willing to commit and provided for her.

This is why avg age of marriage are being pushed back further and further. Many women want to keep in single life and see if they can lock down a desirable man. if they can't then they will have to settle for avg which women hate. This is why when you look at stats, married women are less happy than single women. Women hate the men they had to settle for when they use to be treated like mini celebs, get dicked down by goodl ooking men and get VIP treatment in clubs etc This resentment is also why sexless marriages are often due to women and the vast majority of divorces are at the hand of women.

KayRay1994 · 2023-11-07T14:18:56+00:00

“psychopathic” seems far too drastic, also i’ll ignore the hat backwards comment cause it really doesn’t mean shit. That being said, Two factors usually play in - these guys display confidence, dominance, and don’t take things too seriously, they also get women’s adrenaline going - the alternative is usually meek, quiet and doesn’t really do much to display masculine traits or any kind of fun.

Another reason is low self esteem and internal issues - the difference between a guy and a girl with these issues is that guys with these issues are invisible, while women with these issues fall very quickly to things like display of affection, attraction, the chase and the “asshole” behavior is enough of a reminder of their internal sense of unworthiness (and it re-enforces the “i can fix him idea” - usually also stems from low self esteem and abandonment issues - ie. “i’ve reformed them so they’ll stay” or “if i fix them i’ll be worthy”) . This might read that “LOLZ SEE WOMEN HAVE IT EASIER!” but the grass is alwuas greener on the other side, the kind of shit they go through reenforces a whole different kind of trauma which isn’t worse nor better - just different.

Hoopy223 · 2023-11-07T17:10:23+00:00

Lol

Look I’ve known a lot of those guys and they are usually good looking/macho/manipulative and that’s really all it takes. The antisocial behaviors are icing on the cake.

gopher_glitz · 2023-11-08T13:50:09+00:00

For some crazy reason women are like magnates to red flag men. It's how so many older married men have affairs with younger women. These women know full well these older men are married. The amount it happens is mind blowing.

AceOfSpadesGymBro2 · 2023-11-07T11:59:29+00:00

Women have emotional needs that those type of men meet. Since the dawn of man, guys have wondered why cavewomen choose the muscular alpha of the tribe, even though he doesn't objectively care for them and changes cavechicks like he changes his loin cloths. And wondered why they ignore the nice guy who cares for her and is willing to do everything to be with her.

It is simple. The alpha of the tribe appears to have strong genes, him being an asshole means he is more capable of protecting her and her offspring and passing those strong genes to their children. The nice guy who cares for her doesn't appear to have those strong genes and he is too nice to be an effective protector.

There is an actual study that people prefer to have so called mean friends who can be nice towards them but viscous towards others, who might be perceived as enemies. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1090513823000211

This is very similar to the emotional needs women have from their men and hence why many of them prefer the mean, asshole guy to the nice, meek guy.

KamuiObito · 2023-11-07T13:24:37+00:00

“Wears his hat backwards”

Why do yall hate swag/fashion. You probably wear button ups tucked into your jeans with dress shoes and think thats classy.

BobtheAxieManager · 2023-11-07T15:21:07+00:00

Women get turned on if you act like a dick.

If you know, you know...

DecisionPlastic9740 · 2023-11-07T18:59:42+00:00

This is true. Women are eager to ignore any and all of Chad's red flags.

demedermidimi · 2023-11-07T12:24:33+00:00

Not all psychopathic men are master manipulators

who argued that

AFuzzyMuffin · 2023-11-07T13:48:00+00:00

Unhealthy women will date men like this yes.

Healthy women may fall prey once for a long time, second time shorter but usually not a third.

Have to recognize the diff

Also social media says guys like this have a inner nice side

nemma88 · 2023-11-07T14:11:54+00:00

Most of you know the type. Rude to strangers, wears his hat backwards. Seems completely uninvested in every conversation he's a part of.

Idk, this seems like a rather specific image of a guy you have in your mind that would treat women poorly.

Men who treat women poorly, the men that women complain about don't look or act like any one stereotype . Some are overweight, middle aged men with strong community ties. Some are Chad Chadderson, some are as in your example Chav Chavverton. Many are in the police or military. Women date, and complain about all manner of men.

Additionally, how someone treats those outside their culture (including sub cultures) and of the same sex doesn't translate well to how they treat their partner. There are many cultures with strong social hierarchical respect between men that isn't at all passed on to or reflected in how they treat women or their partners.

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siempreloco31 · 2023-11-07T16:55:29+00:00

wears his hat backwards

lmao

MidoriEgg · 2023-11-07T18:31:20+00:00

I know a few walking red flag /extremely dangerous guys that always have girlfriends. But the girls in question are usually from abusive homes, and/or have some sort of mental defecit or mental illness and/or have addiction issues and on the same drug scene. But these are on the extreme end of walking red flags (like, being on tag, being on lisence, being recently released from prison, known gang member, violent begger.)

On the less extreme end, I see friends consistently go after men that I see a lot of minor red flags in (ie, has issues with all his exes, ‘trust issues’, has unrealistic expectations too quickly or has ghosted her several times before, will only talk over Snapchat, lives few hours away but wants to date a girl here etc). It can be frustrating but on the other hand, I could be being overly cautious and picky, which is also something women get cristised for.

obviousredflag · 2023-11-07T13:06:20+00:00

The men you describe are perfectly fitting most men i read here. This sub is full of dickheads who are rude to strangers, not being openn to viewpoints that contradict their own views. Blaming women, society, or outside circumstances for their own misery, not being accountable for their own mistakes and failures. Being stuck in an outdated mindset, trying to treat every situation with the same approach. Calling other men who are happy and successful in life liars or larpers, betabuxxers, cucks and settling for a dead bedroom and a whore.

I wonder why women are not drawn to these assholes, while you and other men here constantly tell us how women love assholes and walking red flags. Why do woman not want to be treated poorly by the lonely men of PPD?

Sensitive_Bluebird22 · 2023-11-07T12:14:39+00:00

“Wears his hat backwards” ok buddy shut tf up 💀.

But as for your actual points that matter this is facts for some woman, especially a lot of black woman unfortunately. For some reason my culture has this obsession with gangsters. I’ve been told by black woman to my face they’d rather date a drug dealer than a normal guy like me even tho I’m a 6 figure earner it’s not like I’m broke😂. This is why I date out, because I don’t seem to have that issue when I date other races.

Cat_lover_492 · 2023-11-07T21:59:59+00:00

Women can't pick out a woman beating abuser but somehow have the gall to call me creepy and weird.

Like pick one.

Can you detect the intentions of a man or not Sheesh.

SnooCupcakes9990 · 2023-11-09T00:58:17+00:00

In my experience, this is an excuse for them not to take accountability for their decisions and choices. It's easier to blame. I don't believe that for one second, a wise woman would not see red flags of abusive man. I've worked with both sides in my field of work, and I can easily notice traits and behaviors that make me believe that person would be abusive.

As soon as I hear this, I roll my eyes. Anyone with an IQ would notice these things. It's plain ignorance and denial.

Cethlinnstooth · 2023-11-07T12:40:47+00:00

Most guys are kind of crap and it's just a statistical reality if a woman wants a guy in her life chances are she's gonna have to ignore a lot of his crap.

This is why I advocate for not having relationships with men. The deck is stacked, don't sit down to play.

Makuta_Servaela · 2023-11-07T17:16:03+00:00

There's also the "I can fix him" mentality. They're going to ignore the red flags if they think the flags won't stick around, will only display to people he doesn't like ("It's good he's aggressive, because he will use that to protect me"), or are inconsistent behind closed doors, even if the inconsistency isn't by much.

tadL · 2023-11-07T13:11:26+00:00

Let's agree your logic is true.but woman are smarter. Tons of studies keep telling us that. So are they really smarter if your logic is right?

y2kjanelle · 2023-11-07T19:05:01+00:00

Everyone has a story of how someone was different in the beginning. How is that a shocker?

I’m well aware some women have low self esteem and are weak. It’s my ick for women as a woman. I’m also just not dumb enough to think everyone shows their true selves all the time. Half the men here admit to believing in the women are wonderful effect but then end up surprised some women are low quality losers. Lots of people have been played

Idk why men are so confused. If you’re redpilled at all, there’s an aspect of manipulation there. Honestly I could even argue the whole point of RP is lying and manipulating. Their main point is to lie to women and “self improve” to get into bed with them even if the woman wanted a relationship. They don’t give a fuck. Why are men sitting around whining about this when they literally say they only do anything in their lives at all just to get sex??? Pretending to be really nice and sweet. Pretending to be a bad boy. Pretending to care about getting fit and jacked (when most say they’re fine being dirty slobs who would just sit and play video games all day and never work).

Who are y’all talking to?? Their literally was a thread about lying about being a virgin. Lying about having experience. Lying about jobs. Lying about intentions. Lying about height cus “women can’t tell the difference”. Lying about fucking everything.

So chill out.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2023-11-07T22:31:51+00:00

what is manipulative about them is how they convince you to ignore their red flags or how they ameliorate the flags with tactics like love bombing

lola2555 · 2023-11-08T00:02:28+00:00

“Wears his hat backwards” do we live in a cartoon or something?

Rogue5454 · 2023-11-08T04:43:17+00:00

Lol you think the “total dickheads” are only the men blatantly visible about it all the time?

Broooo…..the “behind the scenes” “total dickheads” man is scary worse than that!

No_Assumption_5864 · 2023-11-07T12:51:49+00:00

yep, exactly

TenaciousVillain · 2023-11-07T18:38:40+00:00

Here's the problem: boys and pickmes like to blame women when women are victimized by toxic men. Also, "exclusively" and "vast majority" is strong language. Why can't people here accept that men and women are not a monolith and there are many types of men and many types of women? Lol.

Women who date toxic men do it for a number of reasons:

Ignorance / lack of discernment: they are too stupid, young, or inexperienced to know better. When you see men saying they prefer women who are younger, it's usually because they are the toxic men. They know she wont know any better, wont be strong enough to stand up to his bullshit and he intends to fuck her over in one way other another. The baggage men try to shame women with in these scenarios is actually a superpower to see through their bullshit.

Low self esteem: It's difficult to want and attract better when you don't think you deserve it and don't know how beautiful and valuable you are. Toxic men LOVE this and flock to it like bees to honey.

Deception gone wrong: I don't mean him. I mean her. Some women think they are the players or master manipulators. They fuck around, fall in love, and then he outsmarts her and she comes out telling lies about how she was done wrong. The reality is she was a piece of shit, he figured her out and then dose her with her own BS before she could get him.

Cultural: And I don't mean cultural in the sense of ethnic or religious customs and such. Some of you don't realize that people pick what looks like home. If you grow up around toxicity you don't know it's toxicity. It's your norm. It's what's supposed to happen in your mind. Some people have been conditioned to recognize poor treatment as common and usual.

Again at the end of the day and with the exception of number 3, none of this excuses a man treating a woman like shit. If you say shit like "well you chose him" just makes you a shit person.

tonyghow · 2023-11-08T00:14:46+00:00

Both men and women are dumb.

Man sees attractive bucket of red flags but doesn’t care, he just wants to have sex with it.

Woman sees attractive bucket of red flags but doesn’t care, she thinks she can reform the bucket and take out the flags.

Not sure which is worse.

y4435yuh4ueh · 2023-11-07T15:07:45+00:00

Dating an awful personality means that everything bad in that relationship will be the responsibility of that awful personality. So in case anything bad happens in that relationship, a woman knows she'll not be the one to blame.

passportbro999 · 2023-11-07T16:14:26+00:00

Disagree. Women are first drawn to man's power characteristics. It could be his face, his physique, certain visual elements about him like tattoos / height / size / style. It could also be behaviors men view as being a dickhead , but those got interpreted as power.

taxis-asocial · 2023-11-07T17:02:29+00:00

I think you are mixing up psychopath with sociopath.

sociopaths are the ones who tend to have emotional, violent outbursts, are overtly and notably selfish, etc.

sociopaths have empathy, it's just lesser than a normal person, and they're more selfish and impulsive.

psychopaths on the other hand are totally empathy-less, they are cold and calculating. they are actually well known for their "superficial charm" making them very hard to detect.

throwawayofc1112 · 2023-11-07T17:13:57+00:00

The men you described are normally uneducated, have some kind of substance abuse/mental health problems, and are often of a lower socioeconomic status. They’re not necessarily psychopaths. There are also men with an edgier dress style/tattoos who are good, respectable men. It says more about the women if that’s what she’s attracted to. Maybe she thinks “I can fix him.” Maybe she’s grown up around similar men. There’s no way to really know why.

Eastern-Action1384 · 2023-11-07T17:14:53+00:00

Well when women are with someone, special young women 20+, if they choose to be with someone is because they are attracted to him. So no matter how many red flags he had they are willing to be there because of that attraction. I remember a guy dating two friends when I was young. They would compromise and share him because of that attraction they have. And if you asked them like why him? They can't explain it.

bluehorserunning · 2023-11-07T18:03:09+00:00

A lot of women date men like their fathers.

thelightinmydarkness · 2023-11-07T20:22:10+00:00

All “psychopathic” men are master manipulators. Men on the lower end of ASPD (sociopathy) are the ones who lack impulse control, thus typically in and out of prison.

I know many men who loveee women who cheat and are manipulative (I assume because of the trauma bond?), and go back to them countless times, when the red flags were there from the beginning.

I really do empathize with where you are coming from to be honest, because I try to be healthy and men have these crazy emotions towards women who hurt them.

Alas, we do see a lot of abuse in relationships where the man is not violent/dangerous presenting, and we cannot blame anyone in that situation. My family member dated a hardcore Christian who was very nice and patient for 6 entire years before he became extremely extremely abusive. Nobody could have ever guessed what was coming.

No one deserves abuse but I have taken full responsibility myself when I know damn well what I am getting into.

Lookingforlove1997 · 2023-11-07T21:10:59+00:00

With the exception of extremely attractive men,most men are going to be nicer to the woman they’re dating than they are generally. They’ll even pretend to be nice to other people while the woman is watching. The only exception to that is if she’s an asshole too who doesn’t care about other being mistreated. Once he’s gotten what he wants out of her or he thinks she’s sufficiently hooked on him he’ll drop the facade. This is why the end of the honeymoon phase is the true tell. If he’s still kind to you after that, he’s a genuinely kind guy. If he starts being more mean either he’s lost feelings and is annoyed with you but not ready to it contact or he’s showing you his true colors.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-11-07T21:28:55+00:00

Ah yes, the backwards hat, the clear sign of a psychopath. Most also wear jeans and shoes too! All jokes aside, yes there can be red flags, but it’s rarely going to be that black and white. Most people adjust their behavior based on who they’re around… which means the guy who’s rude on a boy’s night may not be on a date. Most men have a jerk side and a nice side, and assholery is on a spectrum.

Some women (and men) do consistently pick badly, but point is, no you will not not usually the know the full extent of someone’s dark side until you have been with them for quite some time. This is purely anecdotal, but one of the nicest guys I ever dated, all his friends thought was a jerk. The actual psychopath, everyone thought was basically Jesus reincarnated… and most still do.

socooltoexist · 2023-11-07T22:30:51+00:00

I read some of the comments and I wanna point out two things.

The first one is that women are generally taught to care for other people. Why is it relevant? Because when women that haven't questioned these ideas go into the dating world, they tend to believe they can change this obviously abusive assholes. And also, if these women come from abusive households, they will go into abusive relationships; as humans, we tend to repeat patterns. However, it makes me sick to my stomach this whole speech that blames women for choosing "the wrong guys", and it makes me sick because it tends to come from men who believe themselves as the "good ones". Realistically, everything depends, and some people are more willing than others to forgive certain "imperfections" if they share other things in common with people. ALSO women are taught to literally expect nothing from men. At least where I'm from, you either gotta expect your partner to act as your dad (provide for you) AND as your child (you gotta learn to cook and clean for him, bc men apparently are incapable of cooking and cleaning for themselves). So, if he provides for you, nothing else matters; and that sucks. We don't have standards for actual healthy heterosexual relationships. So yeah, women AND MEN go fucking up their lives finding toxic people, but I don't think it's fair to blame them for that.

The second thing I wanna point out is that love-bombing is a thing and while it is a way to manipulate people, it also isn't always done in a calculated manner. What I mean is, when you start a relationship, it makes sense you are very attentive; however, if you are not the attentive type, that first attentive impression will fade out. If someone has abusive tendencies, they will be very loving at the beginning because they are experimenting with a new toy, but when the toy feels like theirs, they will stop putting in the effort and letting their true colors show.

So yeah, what if instead of blaming victims of domestic violence we actually help people understand how healthy relationships should be and that bad people also exist and we cannot blame ourselves for things someone else does?

Able-Imagination3695 · 2023-11-07T23:15:04+00:00

Let's rephrase:

Men who are walking red flags approach *everybody*. Some women actively choose them. The percentage of choose them to the ones that reject them can be highly dependent on their looks and social status.

I think that a lot of men who complain about the bad boy have no idea just how shameless the bad boy is at approaching anything with a birth canal and heart beat. They don't give a fuck. They'll approach anyone and anything, their's is definitely a numbers game.

Spyro7x3 · 2023-11-07T23:38:20+00:00

I've outright told women I'm a psycho and I'm not emotionally available and they still wanted to talk to me and get my number.

YveisGrey · 2023-11-08T03:23:11+00:00

I guess but the person you describe seems more like caricature than an actual person. Most people are complicated not all good or bad and some women like the idea of getting “special treatment” from a “bad boy”. Like if he is generally rude but treating her real nice that can make her feel special and important. If other people fear this man that can make her feel protected etc.. so I think it’s more complicated than “he seems mean so no woman should be attracted to him”. I mean there’s also physical appearance, some people don’t care about a person’s character or personality so long as they are hot

escapadablur · 2023-11-08T14:55:46+00:00

Can confirm. I'm not a psychopath, but I wear my mental illness on my sleeve and tend to attract similarly batshit people. Well-adjusted people are "boring" and difficult to relate to.

Dramatic-Ad7687 · 2023-11-08T19:07:55+00:00

Hey brother. I feel where you’re coming from. I’ve been there. Ok, women do not “almost exclusively” date men like this. There’s a wide range in between. They look for some “good guy” traits and some “bad boy” traits. There’s a whole gamut of types of guys women date with varying levels of each. And they want a man who is successful, effective, a leader; why shouldn’t they?

I saw a user post a really good comment on this not long ago, I’ll look for it and edit this comment to link it.

NERDZWIN · 2023-11-10T22:35:31+00:00

Shit, girls will regularly leave good guys they find boring for B

Title	Not all psychopathic men are master manipulators. Lots of women date guys who are walking red flags.
Author	DagothBrrr
Upvotes	181
Comments	327
Date	November 7, 2023 11:41 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/17psevs/not_all_psychopathic_men_are_master_manipulators/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/not-all-psychopathic-men-are-master-manipulators.1237685 https://theredarchive.com/post/1237685

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