Why do other men support societal delusion?

Unable_Evidence_4028 · 2024-07-03T15:19:20+00:00

It is simple my friend. Reality is unfair, and you need to improve. There is no other way.

Incarnate24 · 2024-07-03T15:23:25+00:00

There’s nothing to support. Women are attracted to what they are & there’s no choice in it for them. All the logical arguments and guilt tripping in the world aren’t going to light her fire for someone she’s not attracted to.

It is your problem, because that fact isn’t going to change. So if you want women to be interested in you, you need to learn to be attractive to them rather than spend time arguing with them that they should be lowering their standards

No_Mammoth8801 · 2024-07-03T15:33:42+00:00

I once saw a slightly above average guy show his matches on tinder, and they were all women that were very unhealthy looking.

I mean, is it a societal delusion when this phenomenon seems to be most apparent with online dating?

The gender imbalance on all these apps skews the dynamic; to blatantly ignore this and call the women below this guy's league his league is just your garden variety covert bullying.

HumpsyDumpsy · 2024-07-03T16:16:23+00:00

What does it mean to be 'not' overweight, and 'not' overly weird? There are no defining qualities here that would make him stand out based on this logic.

It's more than just looks, and 'not being weird' for women. They are inclined to select mates who stand out to their personal interests, and biological urges (i.e selecting providers). So if a man is one way, but wants better success, he needs to turn his weaknesses into strength by embracing n having confidence in who he is.

What standards do you define as obscene? How is this offensive to morality?

Opening_Tell9388 · 2024-07-03T15:55:18+00:00

Then, OTHER men essentially tell the guy the problem is him, and that he needs to improve himself in order to attract even a woman who is way beneath his level??

Because this right here. You guys online get pretty unhinged pretty quickly.

I only care about the truth and getting close to the objective reality. TRP is a lot of feelings > facts. Attraction is weird and difficult and the internet and social media have fucked it pretty hard.

purplish_possum · 2024-07-03T19:50:28+00:00

It's not a delusion -- it's a marketplace.

If you can't get a woman she's not beneath your level -- she's above. The marketplace has spoken.

OkProfessional9405 · 2024-07-03T15:19:39+00:00

Then, OTHER men essentially tell the guy the problem is him, and that he needs to improve himself in order to attract even a woman who is way beneath his level??

Because himself is something he actually controls. A plan like 'Let's tell women they need to change' isn't a useful or actionable plan. It's like, 'Hey I'm warm, I smell smoke. Hey it's getting hot I see flames. Hey I'm not sure what to do there's smoke and flames everywhere, do you think I'm safe?'

It's like no dude, get up and help yourself.

SaBahRub · 2024-07-03T15:25:21+00:00

Men being hornier than women is not a delusion

bluestjuice · 2024-07-03T15:44:11+00:00

Eh. What you’re describing is basically the same philosophical divide between pragmatists and idealists that shows up in a million different arguments.

There is value to pointing out non-ideal aspects of culture, norms, etc, and working to change the systems and general attitudes, but in the short term and in relation to one’s individual experience of the world, it is often more productive to focus on responding to the reality of a given situation.

YveisGrey · 2024-07-03T21:24:35+00:00

It’s not delusional that women have higher standards. It’s actually typical and expected. Females are choosier because they invest more in offspring and have limited reproductive capacity. It’s not just women who are like this it’s all mammals and many other animals.

Calling female selectiveness “delusion” is the actual delusion. Once you understand how sex works it makes perfect sense for females to be selective and it would be delusional to expect anything else.

Gravel_Roads · 2024-07-03T15:11:57+00:00

By “support women’s obscene standards” do you mean we go through our day never worrying about the standards of women we don’t know and don’t want to date?

Because it’s easier to not be mad all the time at people you don’t even spend time with.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-07-03T15:12:28+00:00

Outside of your crew, every other single dude is completing with you to pull.

So why would anyone think the ones NOT trying and not succeeding are going to have anything change while there are guys out there right now doing things to get where they want to get?

You can complain all you want about the game, but the game is always gonna be the game.

So are you going to do things to get yourself into the game or not?

“You have a goal? Ok so what’s your plan? A goal without a plan isn’t a goal: it’s a wish!”
-Herm Edwards

Zabadoodude · 2024-07-03T15:17:52+00:00

If he's not not overweight, average looking, and is not overly awkward or neurodivergent he shouldn't have too much problems finding a woman on his level for a relationship. The men I see irl that really struggle usually fall into a few categories:

They only go after gorgeous women out of their league.
They are on the spectrum and are more than a little "weird". Which is more of a hindrance than they realise.
They are looking for a woman that looks as good as them, but only for casual. (More men are into casual sex, so there's going to be a lot of competition)
They are going about looking for women wrong. (E.g. looking for something serious on Tinder, or barely going out and talking to women irl)

So good advice for an average guy that just can't find a woman on his level is going to try to figure out if he's falling into any of these categories first. It's also going to focus on the things he has control over. Lamenting about how high women's standards are isn't going to help him.

leosandlattes · 2024-07-03T15:15:29+00:00

What does “beneath your level” even mean? Realistically your level is what you can get, what you are currently matching with. There is no outside body that says you deserve a 6 because you think you’re a 6.

And even if you were to do this by rank (like you line up every man, and you line up every woman), and theoretically they walk across the aisle to their match, no one can even possibly begin to conceptualize how this looks or how to evaluate what a match is.

So, the only realistic solution here is to self improve so you can get the partner you want. How are these men delusional when they are giving the only advice that will actually lead to better results?

guppyhunter7777 · 2024-07-03T16:07:58+00:00

It’s funny. I remember in collage to be considered a bare minimum just to have a TV. The old tube kind. Then we all needed a 28 inch TV and then a 34 inch TV. Then that weird thing that Sony tried to do with the flat tubes. Then a few years later in order to be considered staying with the times do you need it a 40 inch plasma. Later you were considered behind that homes if you didn’t have an LCD and then LED 1080pand then you needed have a 55 inch 4k to be considered with it. Then it seems like everybody had a 65 inch regardless of whether or not you had a wall to hang it on. I hear we’re all going up to 80 or 100 inches 8K here in a few years. Point being there will always be a bigger better television made that will be considered the thing. Regardless, if you have a house to fit it in, they are going to make it and they are going to make it seem like you were a loser for not having it. The marketing folks are always going to make you feel awkward for asking if there is a feature that the TV manufacturers don’t make.

In case you haven’t figure it out, there’s a lot of parallels to relationships here. My advice find a woman that can fit in your house that you can be happy with.

Spicy_take · 2024-07-03T21:13:33+00:00

What else are you supposed to do? You can’t control women’s standards. They’ve been trying to control men’s standards for a long time through shame, and it hasn’t really made a dent. It’s like a game. In the end, you have three options.

Lower the difficulty (date women you aren’t very attracted to.
Stop or play a different game (passport bro route)
Git gud

That’s all there really is to it.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-07-03T15:39:00+00:00

“Do I need to work on myself? No, it’s an entire half of the population who must wrong.”

Ok, Principal Skinner.

Downtown_Cat_1173 · 2024-07-03T15:29:29+00:00

If your only standard for women are looks and body count, and you don’t actually know what it means to get to know a person and like them for who they are, then you have nothing to offer. I would be bored by a man like that.

DerpaDerpaDooDinkle · 2024-07-03T15:36:42+00:00

Not overweight women are like 20% of women out there. That alone is casting a pretty narrow net. Why would someone who takes care of themself want to date someone who doesn't? Imbalanced relationships rarely function.

nofaplove-it · 2024-07-03T15:50:45+00:00

The circus needs clowns to keep the show running

Electric_Death_1349 · 2024-07-03T15:39:37+00:00

It’s only a “societal delusion” if women can’t get the men that fulfil their standards, which anecdotal evidence would suggest is generally not the case; and whether “other men” support this or not is irrelevant - people can be attracted to whoever they want, and society can’t dictate whether they are reasonable or not

Key-Faithlessness-29 · 2024-07-03T17:43:50+00:00

Men have taught over their entire lives to never support other men or find happiness in themselves. They are never taught acceptance or self love. They learn about self identity and masculinity from media and it fucks their perspective of the world. That's why when women who aren't conventionally attractive accept themselves and say they are pretty, other men can't accept it cause they were never able to do it so they think its unfair or wrong to do this

RubyDiscus · 2024-07-03T15:36:07+00:00

If someones struggling the answer ie always goimg to be self improvement period.

No one ever achieved anything by completely giving up.

Colt_Master · 2024-07-03T15:46:33+00:00

I think yours and many male PPD'ers blackpill biases make them wrongly assume that averagely attractive but nerdy men's league should be nerdy averagely attractive women. It's the basis of all these "How come my league is fat single mothers??????" posts.

Let's be real, you should read red pill and realize that the league of nerdy (shy, socially awkward, asocial) men ain't their looksmatch. Being nerdy as a man substracts points and legitimately indeed makes your league be usually uglier/"lower value" women than you.

My definition of 'league' is: women you're capable of attracting for sex and romance. I'm not talking about some cosmic ontologically deserved counterpart. I'm only talking about material reality.

If you think that women are in chad's harem or legitimately only are capable of being romantically/sexually attracted to top 10% men or something and that's why you can't find someone, well, I'm pretty sure the data doesn't agree.

https://nuancepill.com/why-the-80-20-rule-is-only-half-true/

https://nuancepill.com/is-the-2022-gss-sex-data-reliable/

https://nuancepill.com/the-uk-university-sex-survey/

https://nuancepill.substack.com/p/is-the-young-male-singleness-crisis

https://nuancepill.substack.com/p/is-the-male-virginity-crisis-fake

Edit: also your Tinder anecdote is mediocre since 1. Tinder is mostly a hookup app and men are more interested in casual sex than women 2. as a consequence, among other reasons, most of Tinder's userbase and dating apps' userbase in general is male, and women are able to get turbo-picky. Here's a good video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3lypVnJ0HM&t=462s&ab_channel=MemeableData

Fair-Bus-4017 · 2024-07-03T15:51:28+00:00

I am sorry but if you are struggling with something it doesn't matter what, then the answer is always that you need to improve. Anything else isn't gonna fix your problem.

And no women don't have obscene standards. For the love of god please drop this delusion already.

SunJiggy · 2024-07-04T00:58:41+00:00

Tradcucks are terminally enslaved to simping. It's not even funny how much they facilitate every problem they accuse "weak men" of causing.

giveuporfindaway · 2024-07-04T02:47:20+00:00

Because blue pill men here are sneaky fuckers.

DBEternal · 2024-07-04T07:17:14+00:00

Self protection, society is built around lies around the reality of human nature because most people can't mentally handle it. The brain has only a given amount of pain tolerance before it gives out. Also being the "nice guy" is a mating strategy. It doesn't work but it's better than nothing, since 99% of guys are incels by default.

khaste · 2024-07-04T12:37:13+00:00

Reddit and real life is different. On Reddit, numale soy men will join in with others and female users to put the blame on the man to improve himself and lower his standards.

Yet if u were to ask any man heir opinion on real life, they would openly admit how fucked the dating market is right now and that women are extremely picky and will only date up, not same level or below

crazyeddie123 · 2024-07-04T12:59:28+00:00

Obesity treatments will make things a lot better.

tendrils87 · 2024-07-03T15:25:24+00:00

Maybe stop expecting women to not behave like women and start being someone women would want?

GGMcThroway · 2024-07-03T22:42:56+00:00

Most men on this sub are below average. Terminally online is not a good look.

the obscene standards of women

lmao

I once saw a slightly above average guy show his matches on tinder

Tinder has almost 10x as many men as women.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2024-07-03T15:29:09+00:00

are these men seeing a totally different reality to what I’m seeing?

Yes. This is it. Im mu experience, average men are doif fine. I can only assume regional differences.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-07-03T17:34:56+00:00

Blatant facts are that he can’t find what he wants and the only part of that he has control over is himself. That goes for anyone regardless of gender.

He can:

Keep looking

Change what he’s looking for

Improve himself in an effort to find what he wants

Give up

That’s it and also goes for anyone regardless of gender 🤷‍♀️.

DoubleFistBishh · 2024-07-03T17:39:18+00:00

Because say what you want but if you go outside you see average looking couples everywhere. Disabled people, people with deformities, homeless people, etc. manage to find women willing to date them but you can't just because you're short and weird? That's bs and I think deep down you know it.

Stop fixation on leagues, levels, and stats. What you tend to get is what your "level" is. Point blank. Whatever math equation you wanna use doesn't matter here.

My_House_on_Mars · 2024-07-03T15:18:40+00:00

What's the alternative to tell your buddy to improve himself?

convince all women to lower their standards?

If you like your friend you'd want him to succeed. And It's more likely that he succeeds by improving himself than trying to convince all women.

Pathosgrim · 2024-07-03T15:22:37+00:00

They are as narcissistic as the women that are in their company. It makes sense tho as toxicity and immorality is preferred and rewarded

Molefe_mp3 · 2024-07-03T18:41:26+00:00

not every woman has crazy high standards so it's better to look inwards to see what flaws you present that could be limiting you in that field sometimes it's not even a personality or looks issue sometimes it's just people don't put themselves in situations where they can actually find a woman who they are attracted to and is attracted to them

because honestly there's no point getting mad at the loud minority of women with the weird standards might as well ignore them and mend the issues in yourself

obviousredflag · 2024-07-03T19:02:35+00:00

I just don’t understand it. Am I crazy and are these men seeing a totally different reality to what I’m seeing?

Yes, we do. We see a world where 70% of men are in committed relationships currently and about 15% more are in and out of relationships. While most of the rest, who are not looking to date, do so because they enjoy beign single for the time being, instead of having given up on dating.

It's a tiny fragment of incels and autists, who are socially inept, isolated, with only online dating as a means to connect with people, but with a terrible profile that doesn't cut it in the competition with their peers of equal attractiveness levels.

Because, it seems as though to some dudes an average man wanting a woman who is not extremely overweight is too high of a standard?

Most "average men" are delusional about themselves being average. Average men have no problem dating, as statistics about relationships clearly show. How do you think those 70% of men are, if not mostly average guys? Yes, a standard you cannot realize is a standard that is too high. What do you think determines if a standard is too high?

I once saw a slightly above average guy show his matches on tinder, and they were all women that were very unhealthy looking.

WHY THE FUCK did he match them if they are not meeting his standard?

Bikerbats · 2024-07-03T21:12:52+00:00

Speaking for myself, I dismiss them because I was never close to average in anything. Well below average height, never finished high school, balding in my 20's, and yet I never lacked for sex, dates, or relationships. Leads me strongly to believe it ain't about what everyone on PPD thinks it is.

RecreationalPorpoise · 2024-07-03T15:18:17+00:00

Because modern toxic women require such behavior in order to not be made a social outcast.

goo_wak_jai · 2024-07-03T15:51:06+00:00

Because we can. It's that simple. Don't overthink it. Rationalizations are just people trying to make sense of a counterintuitive action that seems to benefit no one but the few.

BrainMarshal · 2024-07-03T17:35:00+00:00

It's called the Just World Fallacy.

Myagooshki2 · 2024-07-03T18:32:49+00:00

The "obscene standards" usually aren't real, theyre shit tests. You can ignore those women if you don't feel like you'd be able to bust their ego. I think they're also temporary.

RoninOnBananaLeaves · 2024-07-05T11:32:27+00:00

They want 'it' at any cost and have nothing in their life to live for except 'it'

Where it refers to sex and also to the social validation that they are man enough to 'hit a girl'

grumud · 2024-07-03T15:14:49+00:00

Why are people so insecure they have to defend their preferences to strangers? Why are people so insecure they have to attack strangers for the preferences they have?

Who cares what someone else thinks about what you choose do with your life. People need to grow up.

WolfInTheMiddle · 2024-07-03T16:22:34+00:00

It’s called simping, too many guys and girls been telling women lies about how they are beautiful when they are not. Our society revolves around not hurting women’s feelings which is why so many dudes can’t be themselves and say it how it is cause it’s seen as taboo. It’s sad because it actually hurts those women in the long run

lgtv354 · 2024-07-03T15:53:47+00:00

hoeflation.

EveningSuggestion283 · 2024-07-03T15:58:02+00:00

Cause the world is ending. Radical acceptance 😂🥴

macdaddy0800 · 2024-07-03T18:09:39+00:00

"Looking for a woman who is not fat, no kids, thigh gap, nice smile"

hOw daRe yOu miSogyni$t 😆

volleyballbeach · 2024-07-03T18:30:26+00:00

If a guy is average in America, he IS quite overweight, and thus should expect to date mostly people who are also quite overweight. Perhaps your perception of what is average is very skewed or you live somewhere else but the advice on here is mostly geared towards Americans and country with similarly overweight populations

Fabulous_HonestTea · 2024-07-03T17:24:06+00:00

I just don’t understand it. Am I crazy and are these men seeing a totally different reality to what I’m seeing?

No, there’s nothing wrong with you, your appearance, your height, your personality or any other that other bullshit. You’re completely normal.

Most women just simply aren’t attracted to most men.

The attractive minority of men: More non-committal pussy than they know what to do with,

The unattractive majority of exemplary financial standing: A wife who isn’t attracted to him, sucks him dry, and claims she has vaginismus so she never has to fuck him.

The unattractive majority of less than exemplary financial standing: Nothing. Women would just rather be alone.

Crimson-Pilled · 2024-07-03T15:36:18+00:00

Men are the disposible sex - to both genders. Women are good as they are - to both genders. The queen makes the rules and the peasent follows, without question. You are acting out of line when you ask for truth, kindness, and fairness, to be scapegoated by those trying to gain their queen's favor or avoid her incredible wrath.

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xxTheMagicBulleT · 2024-07-03T18:21:34+00:00

I think men get told the truth a lot more. And get grounded in there expectations a lot more. Guys a quite brutally honest. What grounds them a lot more.

And I think society men and women them selfs. Don't tell the truth all that often. And keep boosting egos and rise expectations in those women cause they not told the truth.

To be honest most men even in a early age get told your not special in any way or any form. But you can make or create something special if you work hard enough.

Many women get told that they are special and the world will acept you no matter who are what you do. You can be and do anything your world is at you feet. The world is your oyster.

Men get pulled down more. While women get mostly more lifted up.

Men mostly have to carry more responsibility of there actions and mistakes.

To a big degree much less that happens for women.

What simply mean men are a lot more grounded. While women are just nit grounded at all. If you always get lifted up. The only real responsibility or Consequences women have to realy face is often the once they can't really get back from or undo. Makes it very very hard for women.. why would be much beter for women to have more responsibility and more reactions of there actions. And more brutal honest.

So less women get stuck in that trap. Of making choices they can never take back. And would make them stuck in there life paths the choose.

Too little freedom can be a curse but to much freedom can be just as big of a curse.

Especially as suddenly many people turn against you.

What often does happen. Like with serial cheaters. People going from relationship to relationship. People that like how sexual liberated they are online for others to see let's say and more.

I think there a lot of big pit falls that come with the freedom. What often does hurt a lot of women. When you give endless freedom. And uplift every fart they make to smell like roses. I think its more damaging for women then uplifting.

Why I think cause society is a lot harder and honest to men. There many many times more pitfalls for men.

But ofcourse the 2 extrames would be the best that it was more pulled to the center. But wishing it to be so don't make it so.

But I do thing those big pitfalls and the endless uplifting makes there is a lot of delusional or unrealistic outlooks and a lot more harmful for women in general. Cause to a big degree they are not grounded in there expectations. What sets them up for failure on different fronts. Sad is a sad thing so see. Cause you see a ton of women being very miserable and stuck in their life choices. Often cause they believed in the endless uplifting fairy tale talk. What's sad and I do feel for those people. Even if they did it them self. They often been told a lie.

Upset_Material_3372 · 2024-07-03T19:43:10+00:00

Most of this comes from the fact that in the past you just needed to be an average guy with a couple redeemable traits and you could find a partner but that is no longer the case so people end up stuck in that mentality of the past.

moldovan0731 · 2024-07-04T23:04:55+00:00

Prepare for the "average women ignore that guy and only go after chads on dating apps, so only below average women are in his league" comments.

John_Oakman · 2024-07-03T15:50:20+00:00

The average low value male (male because he is not worthy of the title of a real man) has nothing left besides scraps of social legitimacy. To keep even those scraps he must make the utmost of sacrifices to maintain the current establishment.

analt223 · 2024-07-03T16:54:04+00:00

Both men and women like to gatekeep relationships from men. Men do it because men in general struggle to attract women, so its competition. Women do it for yas queen feel goodism.

Purple_Kangaroo8549 · 2024-07-03T16:10:49+00:00

In group preferences exist in women but not men, they need to be restored like they were in the past.

Percentage	Men	Women
Overweight	34.1	27.5
Obese	43.0	41.9
Total	75.1	69.4

Title	Why do other men support societal delusion?
Author	barelyexisting3
Upvotes	43
Comments	461
Date	July 3, 2024 3:07 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1dugnvd/why_do_other_men_support_societal_delusion/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-other-men-support-societal-delusion.1523132 https://theredarchive.com/post/1523132

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