What We Saw In Afghanistan Today is Proof That Men Don’t Even Protect Submissive Women

BillyWrightGAC · 2021-08-17T02:00:39+00:00

Urban middle-class redditor draws conclusions on western society based on collapse/reconquest of war-torn country which has not known peace in hundreds of years. This is peak reddit.

EDIT: anyone who gilded this post is gay.

Hashashin_ · 2021-08-17T14:01:37+00:00

I am from a neighboring country of Afghanistan we share a lot of same culture and I have meet Pashtuns (ethnicity that predominantly makes up Taliban). There are currently about 4 million Afghan refugees in my country. I know their culture and anything that happens in Afghanistan often directly effects us. But all this a side I just wanted to ask "Are you out of your damn mind"? This is the most the most absurd conclusion I have ever heard in my life. Privileged Western woman who knows nothing about anything drawing conclusions from her ignorance.

SSCookieLover · 2021-08-17T03:04:50+00:00

I'm gonna addressing your take and expressing my take on the situation to make things spicy:

- Those fleeing Afghans that you see on the TV are middle tier officers of Kabul government. Those are the guys that will be killed off if the Taliban get a hold on them but too poor to buy a seat on that escape plane. High tier officers of Kabul government are already gotten the hell out of that place since a long time ago and Low tier officers are too weak to even do anything remotely possible on the situation.

- Here is the viewpoint of a common Afghan soldier in the Afghan army:

+ Their biggest ally, the US, are withdrawing from the country.

+ Their high level and mid level commander are already fleeing the country like I said above.

+ Even if they didn't flee, the commanding structure is full of corruption and inefficiency. So basically you have good bricks but shitty cement to build a house called Afghan army. One blow and the cement won't hold the brick together, making it all crumbled.

+ Their enemy are zealots that are willing to fight to go to meet Allah, meanwhile they still have their family awaiting at home.

+ Their enemy has declared that whoever fight them will have their whole family killed (and they already make examples for that) and whoever turn over their weapons to the Taliban will get money and safeguard from the Taliban (also have examples for that).

Put yourself on their shoe and think if you want to continue fighting such war.

An_Innocent_Potato · 2021-08-17T03:36:47+00:00

Most of these people you saw in the airport are afghani translators, special forces, airforce pilots and people who worked, cooperated or provided intel to the Americans. Those people are being hunted down, killed and tortured in droves. The people you are seeing were the ones who actually stood up against the taliban but were abandoned by the Americans. Random afghani people ain't allowed inside an American airbase, for obvious reasons.

The afghani people who stood and fought against Taliban were by a huge margin men.

TheOnlyDijaini · 2021-08-17T04:17:49+00:00

This is ridiculous. The only proof of anything is that people panic and when its in groups they panic twice as much, stampeding away from danger. And to play devils advocate, true equality between genders would demand that women take care of themselves instead of waiting for their "prince" to save them. What has and is happening in Afghanistan is sad and horrible, but drawing a connection from this tragedy to men and submissive women is a disgusting and desperate attempt to validate a stupid argument.

ImportantResults · 2021-08-17T02:33:21+00:00

As I was watching all the men flee leaving behind their wives and
children to get raped, enslaved and killed by the Taliban I thought
about this sub.

How did you know the relationship between people in the images?

princelydeeds · 2021-08-17T04:12:05+00:00

Why don't a group of unsubmissive, opinionated, "women can do anything men can do", Western, feminists go in, kick Taliban ass, liberate the women, free the children and show us men how it's done?

SaBahRub · 2021-08-17T04:38:00+00:00

Uh, where do you see this happening?

I thought they were all equally fucked?

Whisper · 2021-08-17T04:17:23+00:00

So when are feminists going to strap on a plate carrier and M4 and go fight to liberate those women?

Or will they just whine very non-submissively for the Patriarchy to do it for them?

2021-08-17T08:12:07+00:00

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nofap_champ · 2021-08-17T01:52:39+00:00

This situation is a lot more complex. Most people did not flee the country. They have been living in a very fragile version of "peace" for a long time. 20 years of US occupation. A weak propped up government. And constant tension from terrorists.

The amount of people that fled the country were minimal in comparison to the ones who stayed. The ones who stayed made peace with the taliban. Its safer for them and their families to do so. As the saying goes "if you cant beat them join them" and there are a lot more civilians than terrorists. If they join them, as long as they follow their rules there is a chance of safety.

The ones that left are probably the ones most in danger. Probably the ones who would be punished or traitors. There are likely much less women in that category.

Im not being lenient to the terrorists btw, im not expecting a civil, peaceful society to form out of this.

As for protecting women, its an individual thing. Men who valued their childrens and wives life above theirs would definitely do anything in power to protect them. The ones who dont, onbviously run.

But this is a life and death situation and 99% of redditors dont have any place to make an opinion on it. Sometimes, surrendering is the safest option for your family. If you know that you will be defeated, then what is the point of fighting and dying? Who will look after your family then? Subjects that surrendered historically got fairer treatment than subjects that resisted. They simply choose the best option they had.

Hoopy223 · 2021-08-17T01:33:34+00:00

I’ve seen plenty of women in the videos. Also the men who are leaving are mostly young guys who worked as interpreters and soldiers. Probably not married.

_lemazaki · 2021-08-17T03:23:59+00:00

Let me try to CMV you. Just to be clear, not saying this is my wish, something I agree or nothing like that.

BUT, thing is... We men, as a group, choose everyday to protect you and do infrastructure jobs for your comfort. If men, in any society as a group , choose to do the same as Afghanistan, nothing different will happen.

Women have to force men to respect us or developed countries will end up like the Afghanistans of the world.

Statements like this are only possible IF men allow you too. There is no peace of paper that can hold men if they choose to do it. And force, history shows us that is completely out of question, because you never took the power as a group before.

Again, I understand your anger and I SHARE IT... but understand that males are also doing your protection and probably their ascensor gave their life for your safety.

It´s men´s fault that these type of shit happens? Yeah! But the good things, that things that mad societies so comfortable today, are men´s fault too.

Perseus_the_Bold · 2021-08-17T02:29:39+00:00

Do you understand the culture or the geopolitics of Afghanistan?

Men would protect women if they were submissive and let men lead!

Nobody says that, not even the Red Pillers.

Self preservation is an instinct of far higher priority than that of procreation. Men don't want to die. It's as simple as that, and when they do not have the means to fight it is best to run in order to fight another day. Nothing is gained in being slaughtered for "Muh Lady's Honour!" Just so that she will get raped anyway next to my corpse.

Those men chose wisely. They chose to save themselves when they had no chance to defend themselves from armed and organized aggressors. There us no shame in this.

I also feel that I have to ask: Why didn't the women flee with the men? Why did they stay behind? What's the story there? Do you have a news article that gives us some more details?

TheChocolateBarsGuy · 2021-08-17T02:20:45+00:00

What is this shitty take ? Majority of the population agrees with taliban on social conservatism.

Why the fuck would they fight them when they largely agree with them. Maybe not on everything which is why they fought for years but for the most part they subscribe to social conservatism.

Taliban isn't going around raping mens daughters and wives. That is the reason they are still alive. If they ever tried to go trying to rape other mens women , daughter etc on a mass scale they would be all killed no questions asked. That is one of the big reasons why ISIS failed. They went overboard with that type of shit which is taken seriously.

Unlike what morons say in socially Conservative societies men kill other men over touching any female family memebers. Let alone a wife or a daughter.

So stop spreading misinformation when you do not know anything about the taliban , Afghanistan or socially conservative societies.

Super-Peoplez-S0Lt · 2021-08-17T02:33:48+00:00

We can all agree that women's rights and equality benefits everyone. This is supported by facts and statistics according to the United Nations. States with the highest rates of gender equality on average have far higher levels of development compared to those with lower rates of gender equality. This is why I laugh at how stupid these manosphere dudes sound when they say stupid shit like "[insert very high level developed country] is dying because of feminism." It's actually the exact opposite.

However, to expect a bunch of innocent civilians who are men to fight and save a failed state from a heavily armed terrorist group that recently forced their president to flee the country is fucking stupid. All innocent civilians are victims of here, including the women and children as well as the men.

Afghanistan has been a country extremely divided by its geography, Islamic militants, tribal warlords, world powers, and proxy governments. It has also had its borders artificially drawn by the British Empire as well as been constantly invaded and forced at the mercy of the superpower that bothered paying any attention to it. It was a failed puppet regime for the Soviet Union during the 1970s and 1980s and it was puppet regime for the United States during the War on Terror. Once these superpowers loss interest in this country, they abandon ship leaving the people to suffer the consequences.

Afghanistan was never destined to become a stable democracy. It was a country that was always destined to fail. To say otherwise is completely foolish.

2021-08-17T01:28:04+00:00

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Anantha1996 · 2021-08-17T02:10:31+00:00

"Female submission on a Marco scale leads to failing society"

The Taliban have more submissive women and they are winning.

Taking such a complex geo political situation and reducing it to a women's issue is ridiculous. Most of the Afghanis don't oppose the Taliban because the government was seen as a foreign invader and populations across time seem to have a preference for their native tyranny over foreign freedom.

"men flee leaving behind their wives and children to get raped, enslaved and killed by the Taliban"

The Taliban aren't ISIS, this isn't what they are doing. They are planning to rule Afghanistan, not Jihad against all infidels. I mean if you want we could wait to see the number of causalities by gender after the conflict to see if your statement holds.

Edit: Collaborating with the Taliban is the easiest way to protect your family in Afghanistan. Those who resist/ cooperated with the US are going to be hunted.

mikantriv9065 · 2021-08-17T03:23:33+00:00

Selection bias. Those men are fleeing because they think they are probably going to get killed by the Taliban, which means they collaborated with NATO, a foreign occupier. Pray tell, how masculine do you think are the population of men that provide aid and comfort to a foreign enemy, versus the men that endured 20 years of fighting that enemy?

DaphneDK42 · 2021-08-17T04:22:32+00:00

How do you know the fleeing men had wives and children? There seem to be this natural trend in polygamic societies that a subset of men (lost boys) are pushed aside with no chance of wife or children.

abaxeron · 2021-08-17T12:27:20+00:00

to get raped, enslaved and killed by the Taliban

Two points.

One. Last time I checked, Taliban punished rape with death, same as production of opiates. "Taliban == bad == rape == slavery" is some Bush-era mantra that was needed to quickly shut people up and justify overblown military budget. Last time I checked, ALL claims about widespread rape in Afghanistan had no comparative primary source. At best, it boils down to some obscure human rights report saying "between 2000 and 2010, 1,5 thousand cases of rape of women were registered by human rights organizations". Per 38 million population? IN TEN YEARS?! How many men and boys got raped? "uuuh, we didn't really monitor this one" - Well go fuck yourselves then.

Two. Last time I checked, even during the most war-torn times of recent history of Afghanistan, women demonstrated higher rates of survival, lower rates of mortality, and higher rates of life expectancy, in all age groups, in all regions where data was available, and in all circumstances.

You knee-jerked to a news report and made conclusion that does not follow. There's really nothing to discuss.

NameGiver0 · 2021-08-17T04:29:15+00:00

Or you know, they were single.

Men don’t owe women a thing. But they sure do act like it whenever it’s beneficial to them.

LowCreddit · 2021-08-17T01:46:26+00:00

Men protect their woman and children specifically. They will likely protect others' children. If it is easy, they will protect women at large. They won't think twice about helping strange men.

Women have to force men to respect us

Wrong. Powerful men use massive state entities to give women the license they have today. They do this to destroy families and create a surf class for neo-feudalism.

Taipanshimshon · 2021-08-17T01:36:58+00:00

What you see should tell you that the men of the west allow women everything they have here.

If we didn't the women of the west would be equally if not more subjugated.

Walked around by yourself? Thank a western male

2021-08-17T03:03:31+00:00

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goatismycopilot · 2021-08-17T01:42:28+00:00

Afgani society has a brief neo western phase in the 60's when they loosened up a bit but the average man there is pretty close to the Taliban in beliefs. If anything they probably happy women are being forced back into being breeders. They did not put up any resistance because they are okay with the Taliban. Women were starting to work and play sports and be human ever so slightly.

The Middle East with a few exceptions is not salvageable the only reason the US needs to be there is to keep an eye on things. They all hate democracy, the west, and women being anything other than breeders. Afganistan is just the most extreme expression of that.

Luna320 · 2021-08-17T01:57:55+00:00

Female submission means THEIR men will protect them, not that random men will clammer to protect random women

sounds like female entitlement to me. if your man ran away when the taliban came storming in, then yeah thats valid. However, the taliban were mostly peaceful in their takeover, furthermore the men running away are young single guys

2021-08-17T02:00:02+00:00

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Expensive-Guitar3609 · 2021-08-17T03:13:03+00:00

WESTERN men protect their women and grant them equal rights.

What you are seing in Afghanistan is just nature by itself.

I know it can be shocking to western women to realize how fragile their empowerment bubble is, but I don't think US marines nor the afghan guys leaving the country are wrong for just wanting to flee away from a certain death.

Women who are left behind won't have it better than the men at the bottom though. They will just have to obbey and bend to the will of the dominant group of men to survive. The men who are considered Taliban regime's enemies are going to get brutally killed.

Other than that, reality check to those fighting against the evil heterosexual "that religion" "that race" Patriarchy though.

just_some_dude_blah · 2021-08-17T03:35:21+00:00

Wow way to make crazy generalizations. First of all afghan women arent submissives. There are women fleeing too. Why should the men just let the women flee?

thegr8profiter · 2021-08-17T04:16:27+00:00

How do you know women are not supporting Taliban? Look at the female islamic fundamentalist gatherings that spew hatred. They demand exactly what Taliban is Implementing. Heck, even many muslim women in India and Bangladesh are big fans. Look at Duktran e Millat and their ideology.

Look at the videos of Pakistan Army getting attacked by female students of a infamous islamic seminary, all of them clad head to toe.

I feel sorry for ethnic minorities and women who want to flee. But this empathy for the whole of them is absolutely misplaced. They have prioritised Islam above human rights. Who are we to tell them anything different?

Tracker1958 · 2021-08-17T09:48:35+00:00

Do women think they are worth dying for, and if yes then why?

Appropriate-Ad2175 · 2021-08-17T12:06:48+00:00

You look at the tragedy that's going on in Afghanistan and this is what you think of? Do you really want to reduce such a complex issue to "MEN BAD"? Do you really think you can make absolute generalizations about anthropology, history, psychology and sociology from such a surface understanding of an armed conflict?

Absolutely atrocious post.

ndestruktx · 2021-08-17T08:16:39+00:00

A little inaccurate in that I would argue Afghani men were just being pussies about it.

YoshiTora23 · 2021-08-17T13:37:05+00:00

You took an example from one place and decided that determines how men as a whole act and their protective nature of women?

Amazing.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-08-17T16:22:11+00:00

Yes, yes, men in another country are supposed to lay down their lives against the Taliban to show western women on PPD that men as a whole care about submissive women.

Of all the takes I've seen, this one definitely represents the female presence here on this subreddit.

Robotemist · 2021-08-18T02:15:43+00:00

You should be ashamed of yourself for this post.

2021-08-17T05:22:04+00:00

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superlurkage · 2021-08-17T02:31:11+00:00

They aren’t submissive women. They are livestock

midwesternMD · 2021-08-17T03:09:19+00:00

Extrapolating from Afghani culture to western/American culture is an erroneous exercise, but I think you may have conceded this elsewhere.

I enjoy playing devils advocate, so let me take a stab at this…

A lot of the manosphere folks might make the claim that women’s suffrage/rights etc have led to the downfall of society.

While I personally think those guys are idiots, I can’t exactly make a strong case against the most basic claim.

Most societies have historically oppressed women. And they’ve all failed. But some have prospered for hundreds of years.

We’ve only had ~100yrs of women’s suffrage and perhaps 50yrs of increasing equality in a country not quite 250yrs in the making. Yet the fabric of American culture/society today is as fragmented as it has ever been. Certainly I’m not trying to establish causality. It’s just that we don’t have the data to declare that equality begets a stable/successful society. And if we look at a snapshot of today, one could reasonably argue that the heterogeneity of voices in American politics is cause for the downfall of American unity and might.

f4z3ultr1x · 2021-08-17T01:25:41+00:00

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Diabolixide · 2021-08-17T03:20:06+00:00

All the men will be killed, the women will be killed or raped and forced into marriage. There is no escape so all of their survival instincts are kicking in which easily override the 'protect women' instinct. Also, I don't see women protecting men over there either. Shouldn't their motherly 'protect their family' instincts be kicking in?

2021-08-17T01:26:14+00:00

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n8ivco1 · 2021-08-17T02:13:12+00:00

Next time you are in combat and under fire...Oh wait... Anyway give us your opinion then. It's real easy to talk like a badass until you have a couple of slugs in your ass.

ThisBoringLife · 2021-08-17T01:29:53+00:00

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NockerJoe · 2021-08-17T02:21:21+00:00

I've been talking to people living there and reading accounts and keeping up and that is absolutley not how it worked. The average person is terrified and half the problems there now are due to people trying to leave with their families. They are leaving because they care.

The Taliban won because there was no chance for the Afghan army to win. Their soldiers had a near majority addicted to opiates and half the shit they needed got taken or were non functional. A Taliban war would just end with them losing and dying in droves and the Taliban hungry for revenge in the exact way the Japanese were at Nanjing.

This way, the Taliban at least paid some lip service to womens rights nobody expects them to live up to and they're holding back on the worst of it long enough for more people to get the fuck out, or at best secure a slightly less terrible status quo.

This was never, ever a war the west was capable of winning and fighting it would have just lead to yet more horror as men in no condition to fight wear down the patience of men who have already waited their literal entire lives for this exact moment.

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-08-17T03:11:23+00:00

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tropicsGold · 2021-08-17T05:21:22+00:00

I know it is anecdotal, but when my very submissive mother was attacked by a crazy knife wielding lunatic, my “patriarch” father attacked him bare handed and allowed her to escape with infant me.

cuntreaper69 · 2021-08-17T02:14:03+00:00

If women feel this way, why do they not repeal the male only selective service, enlist in droves in the marine corp and army infantry, and vote for military action abroad to bring about “western values” to the old world? Females in the west do not submit to men, the average female is considered worth more than the average male in the west and the young ones have higher educational attainment and make more money. The females are in control of the young and middle aged now.

princelydeeds · 2021-08-17T03:05:12+00:00

😂😂😂😂.... As if you strong, independent, Disney Princesses would go to Afghanistan and start telling men what to do and how you aren't going to listen...😂😂😂😂

Submissive women don't bring out the worst in men, the worst men won't put up with unsubmissive women. Taliban men would slit your throat just for raising your voice. Are you naive enough to assume Afghan women don't have just as many opinions as you do? Go Run your loud mouth in Afghanistan or Iran, talk about how you aren't going to be submissive....😂😂😂

You have opinions that you speak out loud because you live in western society protected by men. Remove those protections and I'd love to see how much you'd run your mouth. Go to Afghanistan and be a feminist, I'd looooove to see it... 😂😂😂

ChibsFilipTelfordd · 2021-08-17T09:48:51+00:00

joined the Taliban to further oppression the women they decide to keep alive.

Uh.. How can i say this kindly...

The Afghan National Army and government it supported weren't exactly beacons of egalitarian feminism

suscitare · 2021-08-17T13:19:25+00:00

But women are strong and independent, remember?

EdwardCircumcizehand · 2021-08-17T03:36:35+00:00

on a Marco scale

What did he ever have to do with it?! He was just makin pasta like ma said to do!

2021-08-17T08:17:48+00:00

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2021-08-17T08:21:36+00:00

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Consistent_Wear_1224 · 2021-08-17T08:40:02+00:00

I think it's more Western white male thing to be a gallant white knight than it's a general male thing tbh. Compare Titanic to this. It's cultural. And I wouldn't say that Western women showed enough appreciation or gratitude, but took it for granted.

I don't understand personally how anyone can expect men as group to put their lives on line for women, as a group. To me it always seemed like an individual brave, selfless behavior that some individuals( men or women) can show. Not some sort of social expectation.

It really depends on an individual man and whether he loves his woman enough to do that, for example. If it was a norm then we wouldn't cry while reading books or watching movies where men do that- so it's rare.

I'm a woman btw

2021-08-17T09:09:03+00:00

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Consistent_Wear_1224 · 2021-08-17T09:47:10+00:00

Those men do not value submissive women, though. They value men way more, that will say themselves.

They also value white women above their own, so they would rather go to the West and continue their bloodlines there than die saving Afghan women. Also if they were more faithful to their own nation/women they'd be on Taliban side, not the American side

Iron-Giant169 · 2021-08-17T18:13:30+00:00

Coddled first world fools talking out of their ass, how surprising.

mister_pickle · 2021-08-17T18:17:23+00:00

seek help

Small-Window711 · 2021-08-17T20:08:50+00:00

Taliban announce ‘amnesty,’ urge women to join government https://apnews.com/article/afghanistan-taliban-kabul-1d4b052ccef113adc8dc94f965ff23c7

lobsternooberg · 2021-08-17T23:08:58+00:00

Reported for hate. Misandry at it's finest

techr0nin · 2021-08-18T02:37:08+00:00

To me it seems like the lesson here is women should pick men that are winners, because life can really suck when you are with losers.

JameisBong · 2021-08-17T01:43:15+00:00

The better lesson here is if the government of the day ever collapsed what will the women and children do? What will they do without fathers and brothers to protect them?

aerial_coitus · 2021-08-17T02:31:49+00:00

Now wait a second. Every day there is a whole gaggle of women and their white knights prattling on about how women are strong and independent and how women don’t need any men and all that. So where are all the women now who should be rushing over to Afghanistan now to fight back against the Taliban and put them in their place and show them how strong and capable and perfect you feminists all are? Since you can do anything men can do and you don’t need men for anything. We know that women do not think men can hardly even tie their own shoes or find a can of soup in the pantry so heaven knows women do not truly think men are capable of anything even remotely approaching functional competence at any more advanced tasks. Yet here the feminists and their strength and independence are absolutely nowhere to be found. And now it is back to the familiar trope of expecting men to protect and save women. What gives?

throwawaybpdnpd · 2021-08-17T04:02:51+00:00

Yeah, right…

I’m 99.9999% sure you wouldn’t have stayed and fought back if you were in the same position

It’s easy to say when you’re thousands of miles away, comfy on the couch, playing on your phone

mandathor · 2021-08-17T11:23:52+00:00

the way you angle this is fucking retarded. "men dont even protect submissive women". i think white men have a good track record with regards to putting up a fight, im not sure how their track record would be today, but all white women have done is complain complain complain, and now you want to put all men under one group so you can complain more, when its a specific group of men, and not all men. at least white men today they seem willing to fight for other nations freedom as well. its odd that america needs to fight more for afghanistan than afghan men themselves are willing to fight. and all you can say is "men dont even protect submissive women", its such a fucking disgrace, you would some months ago say this as you also had your mouth full of the words "get out of the middle east" and then flip flop like mister hindsight x1000 after taliban takes over. these women are also not submissive by choice, and honestly the religion of islam is just cowardice way to keep control of women, i wouldnt expect any muslim expect for stern literal believers to really bother fight for it or for women....

the only thing i can say that, the degree of which fucking annoying women like you scream and make drama and make up stupid generalized shit like this. and how you make victims out of arab men, and villains out of white men is the number one reason i would not even bother 1 cent to fucking protect your ass...

courtesy_flush_plz · 2021-08-17T06:34:51+00:00

those guys running because they know they can get another wife & kid if they make it outta there 🤷‍♂️

he's walking the walk.

hell this woman was on r/amitheasshole because she was in a somewhat big car crash & although she wasn't that hurt, she was leading off with telling the docs that if they had to kill her unborn child to save her life then to do it.

Her life was not remotely in danger.

We've all seen those videos where the mother animal leaves the offspring when the predator threatens her life after it gets ahold of said offspring.

princelydeeds · 2021-08-17T09:33:08+00:00

Oh wait fair is fair, I'm demanding equality of opportunity.

It is high time that the women got the opportunity to be in charge, take the lead, go in and kill the bad guys, drive out evil and save the women and children.

As my equal in all things, it's your turn ladies.

Men sacked up the last time some horrible bad guys needed to be killed.

Come to think of it men ran into harm's way and killed the bad men, the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that....

You're a badass who can do anything a man can do, you're a strong, independent woman who don't need no man!

It's your turn to save those who can't save themselves.

Get in the game And kick some ass, fair is fair...

Equality!!!!

GNP_Aficionado · 2021-08-17T10:31:24+00:00

How on earth do you draw this conclusion from the pictures? You have no idea about the relationship status of any of these people. It's more likely that most of the young men are single, just like everywhere else in the world.

Did you also see the pictures of the fathers desperately lifting their daughters over the airport wall to get them to safety? Or did you just ignore that because it inconveniently goes against your crazy narrative?

This sub is fucking nuts...

DLifts777 · 2021-08-17T11:49:32+00:00

They did fight. They spent the last few years fighting and enduring losses. But as soon as we pulled the plug and withdrew they realised it’s a battle they can’t win.

The reason a lot of men have joined the Taliban is because they were afraid the Taliban would massacre them AND their family.

Literally, the options are:

1) Accept Taliban law 2) Have you and your family massacred

Now explain again how they’ve betrayed their ‘submissive women’?

Chunka23 · 2021-08-17T02:29:09+00:00

Op what you don’t understand is a lot of those 300k joined the Taliban to protect themselves and some to protect their families.

You talk about “protecting their wives and children”, when in reality there is nothing to protect them from. As men want dominance and to rule over their SO. With the Taliban now they can do that easily and freely a way westerners don’t.

I’m not saying it’s right but it’s a completely different culture

ToughAnswers · 2021-08-17T02:39:46+00:00

This is confusing because the 300k Afghani troops were fighting on behalf of the westernized government while the 80k Taliban are the traditional ones

Plopolok · 2021-08-17T01:57:40+00:00

How do you know that men are leaving their own wives and children? Do you have a link?

Classicjammer · 2021-08-17T02:26:15+00:00

No it’s uniquely an Afghan problem. Or Middle East problem in particular. Women are literally property to them.

razormachine · 2021-08-17T03:03:40+00:00

On Titanic women and children boarded the life rafts first, and you saw what happened in Afghanistan. In both cases women were submissive.

It really depends on culture. In some cultures men protect women with their lives, in others women are worth 5 goats.

EstablishmentKooky50 · 2021-08-17T03:54:30+00:00

Have you ever heard of cultural difference? Just asking... I mean, i remember when immigration and willkommenskultur was a thing few years back in Europe. Let me tell you, many of those men (from the same cultural circle) did not give a damn about their women. This is not the case in the "modern" world. I don't even know how can someone attempt to compare the two. It's like saying that FGM in Africa proves patriarchic oppression in the West.. Nonsense.

Dyin2Liv · 2021-08-17T11:19:18+00:00

You’re comparing how men treat women globally to the Middle East….. seek help

okinamii · 2021-08-17T14:06:53+00:00

It's mind-boggling that there are people who disagree with you. The men will always fight harder for women who are as visible and active in public life as they are. (Women who feel powerful will also fight for themselves and their men, which should benefit all.)

You will never fight hard for a creature that is less than human to you.

FreierSteinkopf · 2021-08-17T03:03:03+00:00

Bad take. Its an misogynistic culture combined with a religion that shits on women. I agree that its absolutely disguisting what is and will happen to these women now and I am fully supportive of giving afghan women refuge and not afghan men. However they are not submissive by choice while western should tend to be somewhat submissive because thats attractive to most men. By that I also dont talk about literally slave submissiveness - just tendencies.

Ian_Campbell · 2021-08-17T06:25:12+00:00

Those were the city people in Kabul, I doubt they were fleeing the Taliban because they were so staunchly traditionalist. They're probably the most liberal in the nation

revente · 2021-08-17T06:36:35+00:00

Those women are adults. They can wield firearms themselves -a greatest eequaliser ever.

FormalWolf5 · 2021-08-17T09:07:58+00:00

How in earth would you draw that conclusion for ALL MEN in history from what you saw on TV.

Sierro-Accesco · 2021-08-17T15:26:05+00:00

Dumb ass post. Fuck the internet

Glarkin42 · 2021-08-17T02:03:38+00:00

To be honest women have never won anything through force. Western men opted to give women power and western men could taketh away if they wanted to.

I can only say those women should have gotten with better men. I'm more than happy to die for a woman who's commIted to me. I will say though, violent women are hot. I expect her to be submissive to me, not men in general but I expect all women to not be promiscuous.

gimpgirl555 · 2021-08-17T04:19:29+00:00

Some of the men even joined the Taliban to further oppression the women they decide to keep alive.

Men in the West decided to fight the Taliban. Now they are living in fear of women.

RatEnabler · 2021-08-17T09:11:42+00:00

Wtf are they supposed to do? Gun down the entire Taliban?

01000101010001010 · 2021-08-17T09:22:40+00:00

Nice Strawwoman Argument you´ve got there.

Submission in a relationship is not structural oppression through society. Equating both is a fundamental misunderstanding at best, blatant misrepresentation with a hidden agenda at worst.

cloudsongs_ · 2021-08-18T00:31:32+00:00

You nailed it :(

Diamond-Breath · 2021-08-17T11:31:37+00:00

Men love to remind us how “powerful” they are compared to us but can’t even protect us and the children. Can’t and won’t. They literally gave away their weapons and fled the country. This just tell us that women should have their own best interests in mind, we can’t depend on men for anything.

Competitive_Pen2282 · 2021-08-17T08:36:52+00:00

When men were allowed they would treat women like cattle. Men who want submissive women are the biggest cowards. It's disgusting to watch these men protecting their own asses and leaving families behind.

AquaChip · 2021-08-17T02:18:08+00:00

Wow. I didn’t know saying, “Societies that don’t see women as equals will always fall” was so controversial.

2021-08-17T03:50:58+00:00

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2021-08-17T02:44:08+00:00

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M3taBuster · 2021-08-17T04:00:45+00:00

Don't you think maybe there are a few shades between radical feminism, cuckoldry, and "girl boss" culture... and reducing women to livestock? Take even the most misogynistic western red-piller out there and I guarantee you that Afghani gender relations is not exactly what he has in mind when he says he wants a "submissive" woman. He probably just wants a woman that cares about him enough to happily make him a sandwich from time to time without acting as if it's this ultimate symbol of degradation that's beneath her.

I'm not the least bit surprised that in a country in which women are treated that poorly, the men also aren't willing to lay down their lives to defend them. But we aren't them, and that isn't the society that we want anyway.

SteveSan82 · 2021-08-17T04:54:06+00:00

Afghan women are just like all women.

drewcer · 2021-08-17T04:13:22+00:00

Women have to force men to respect us or developed countries will end up like the Afghanistans of the world.

I think this is a fallacy and full of black-and-white thinking.

You're talking about people in Afghanistan who have been shouting "death to America". They've spent the last 20 years in the boonies loading up on ammo and rocket launchers. Yet you expect them to be reasonable, decent human beings? Let alone, a reflection of human nature in the west?

These are Islamic fundamentalists. They take for face value passages from the Quaran that plainly state it's A-OK with Allah if they rape and beat their wives, have sex with prepuecent girls, that women inherently have less value than men, etc etc.

I think the Islamic fundamentalist ideology is more of a contributor to all that than just, "women being submissive." Allah himself literally plainly states it in their holy book that men get the go-ahead to have their way with women.

Finally Muhammad also said in the Quaran that it's okay to marry and reproduce with your cousin or even sister. In fact, he encouraged it. Now I don't have a ton of hard scientific proof for this, but I have a big hunch there's some inbreeding going on between Islamic fundamentalists. And it's probably affecting their mental wherewithal in general.

It would certainly explain why the US army just spent 20 years and trillions of taxpayer dollars training the Afghan army and they still can't do a damn JUMPING JACK.

And for the record, my position is that women can be submissive or dominant, whatever they want. But no one -- men or women -- should be forced to be anything.

And my personal position is that I'm way more attracted to women who are submissive. And from my anecdotal experience, I don't think a lot of even know what that means until they experience a guy who can truly be dominant. I really didn't want to dive into semantics in this comment.

The gist of it though, is in the energetic polarity between dominant and submissive. Even same-sex couples have a top and a bottom. If there's no energetic polarity, there's no spark.

That's all it is. It's not abuse.

Edit: removed oxford comma because it was bugging me

80_20 · 2021-08-17T06:11:20+00:00

Men and women of another country spent their last 20 years protecting women and children of not of their own culture.

Dapper_Art_8269 · 2021-08-17T10:28:39+00:00

What this situation showed is how easily patriatchy and religion can destroy women's lives.

Title	What We Saw In Afghanistan Today is Proof That Men Don’t Even Protect Submissive Women
Author	AquaChip
Upvotes	79
Comments	489
Date	August 17, 2021 1:19 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/p5tqaw/what_we_saw_in_afghanistan_today_is_proof_that/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-we-saw-in-afghanistan-today-is-proof-that-men.1058377 https://theredarchive.com/post/1058377

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