Women punching too high in dating

wtknight · 2024-02-12T15:51:07+00:00

For guys, this is like common sense but women seem to struggle with this concept.

I don’t think that they struggle with the concept as much as it is their version of “playing the lottery”. They know that said high value guy likely isn’t going to take an interest in then in any way besides the sexual, but they try anyway just in case he might.

Men do the same thing when they try to become friends with women out of their league in the hope that she’ll become attracted, or when they pursue much younger women.

TheoreticalUser · 2024-02-12T16:12:38+00:00

It is completely possible that both can be adored and adorer at the same time.

The set of metrics used by a person during adoration are fluid and are not zero sum. Person A who adores qualities x, y, and z at a particular point in time can also be adored by Person B who adores qualities a, b, and x at the same point in time, in respect to Person A adoring Person B and vice-versa.

Sure, we could look at one particular quality of the set and it would lead to your conclusion, but that is reductive towards essentialism bias. We have to look at the sum of the adoration set at particular points of time while considering multipliers such mood and stressors.

Now don't get me wrong, I am aware of hypergamy in dating analysis but that polling is done superficially and is only towards a demographic willing to submit to those surveys. It's not representative of dating as a whole in so many ways that it provides little information that it doesn't merit indepth debate.

MsCalcaneus · 2024-02-12T17:00:43+00:00

Eh, in my experience it's not about leagues or who is above the other person, it's about psychological issues and childhood experiences with distant parents. I simped HARD for my first boyfriend in high school even though everyone else thought he was a huge dork. He was not above me, but he broke my heart because I have issues with my avoidant dad and he was avoidant.

One_Opportunity_5175 · 2024-02-12T17:00:00+00:00

What about cases where you see very attractive men with average looking women even though they have options to be with any women?

JadeGrapes · 2024-02-12T18:21:48+00:00

Uh... sometimes the person just isn't into your type.

TermAggravating8043 · 2024-02-12T15:41:55+00:00

Did you never have a crush that never fancied you back? Cause I did, so does everyone

People are allowed to chase who they want, the only thing that should stop them is the other person.

I know redpillers hate woman chasing a man (because it goes against their core beliefs that woman aren’t real people and don’t have real feelings) and they certainly don’t like men chasing woman (don’t give a hoe the satisfaction of “winning”) but in order for a relationship to progress, some level of chasing needs to be done. Ask any long term couple about how they got together and there’s usually a story behind it

BlueParsec · 2024-02-12T16:09:07+00:00

Women are cool with it! Why do you think so many are hopelessly in situation ships where the guy has no plans of committing? They know this is the reality and they just get sad if they don't get picked for commitment and try again.

AngeCruelle · 2024-02-12T16:34:49+00:00

"Levels" are irrelevant. Life isn't an RPG where a magical spread of stats will entitle you to any and every person. Unrequited feelings can happen for any number of reasons. People can be terrible partners for any number of reasons. Both men and women tolerate terrible partners for any number of reasons.

A common example of that last one is "sunk cost fallacy." Basically, relationship has been going on for so long you really don't want to let it go and start over from scratch, even though the person has checked out and stopped putting in any effort whatsoever. For people who have never dated anyone much less a conventionally attractive woman the idea of treating her like anything less than royalty may seem crazy. Yeah well it's not that crazy, give it enough time and no woman or man is ever 100% safe from being taken for granted.

operajunkie · 2024-02-12T17:14:24+00:00

I don’t think you realize we can only lower our standards so far or you’ll blame us for that too. Women get made fun of for dating “losers”.

IMO non negotiable standards and “nice to haves” should be different.

Non negotiable: employable, loyal, kind, not hideous, not a bigot, taller than me in heels (I’m the size of a child so that’s easy)

EulenWatcher · 2024-02-12T15:41:59+00:00

I think it’s less about one’s league and more about choosing compatible partners. You can be stuck in relationship with a person who isn’t any prettier than you are but who’s just not the right partner for you or isn’t interested in you for whatever reason. You can also date a person with avoidant attachment style and their hot and cold behavior isn’t something dependent on your “level”.

People should respect themselves and be respectful towards their partners. In real life few people operate on “my league” mentality, they just seek partners with mutual attraction.

badgersonice · 2024-02-13T03:48:41+00:00

Well, I tried being passive and feminine and waiting for guys to chase me, and that got me exactly nothing. Nobody wanted me enough to even ask me out for over a decade.

I only got results when I stuck my neck out and did a little chasing.

So I think your advice is bad.

Zombombaby · 2024-02-12T16:28:36+00:00

As a woman, I'd rather be alone than in a relationship where my happiness is optional. If you think you get to decide that for me, then you'd be wrong. Why should I put all this time and effort into someone who doesn't even contribute positively to my lifestyle or align with my goals or ambitions?

A lot of men think just asking for equal partnership is too high a standard and they all want virgin tradwives who both homeschool all their kids while also somehow working a full time job. I don't ask anything from my partner that I am not capable of delivering myself (within reason, ie, Don't ask me for a semen sample, or the best technique to shave a beard, etc.)

If you think my standards are too high then newsflash: you don't have to date me. Nobody is making you do anything including, meeting my bare minimum standards. I would expect the same treatment in return as well. I'd rather we both be happy alone than miserable together.

HighestTierMaslow · 2024-02-12T22:30:21+00:00

What a way oversimplifed take.

KayRay1994 · 2024-02-12T17:21:28+00:00

“hey ladies, lower your standards and pick me. I should be chased. Why don’t you chase me?”

Sir asking women to lower their standards so you can be chased is not very redpill of you

Barneysparky · 2024-02-12T15:38:04+00:00

Yet another post begging women to lower their standards so you can get your dick wet.

My biggest standard, someone who I can see myself living my life with aka we love being around each other.

A guy who wants a sex thing could never reach that standard.

dishonouronmycow · 2024-02-12T17:15:17+00:00

I don’t chase, but I’ve also accepted I’m likely to be single forever and I’m okay with that

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2024-02-12T17:49:46+00:00

It's less about leagues and more about how that person views themselves and other people. I've known guys* who were the picture of mediocrity act like they were God's gift to humanity and thought every woman they dated was somehow not good enough for them. These women were good enough to date because the guy still wanted consistent sex but they put in little to no effort into the relationship. And if you think you're the most amazing thing that has graced this world since Adam himself, yeah, you're not going to be too bothered about how you're treating all those other, inferior people.

Sometimes people do somehow land someone way ''out of their league'' - they're way better looking, they're way more extroverted, way more successful, and the other person ends up trying to ''keep up'' with them, and make themselves into a different person. However, sometimes people land people with narcissistic tendencies, in those cases, it's not really about levels, but I do agree that nobody should try to chase those people, it's a lost cause, and everyone is way better off not having them in their life.

*and gals but since this thread is addressed to women, I'm talking about guys.

audiofoxthethird · 2024-02-12T18:10:58+00:00

I don’t really go for super good looking or high status men because it becomes too much of a territorial pissing contest that I’m just not interested in. Personality and character are a million times more attractive to me than looks, status and money, even though I recognize the benefit in the latter. Long game I can make enough money to survive (being rich is a silly, impractical goal imho) on my own and it makes more sense to be with someone of good character than someone of superficial value.

I am also average looking but even if I were a bombshell I’d still think the same way.

bronzerblush · 2024-02-13T01:31:56+00:00

This convo is stupid. If women were only having sex with good looking tall guys our body counts would be in the low single digits. Y’all dudes out here unremarkable but we still give you the time of day. Stop crying

fiftypoundpuppy · 2024-02-12T15:37:19+00:00

Are you under the impression somehow that emotionally unavailable/avoidant men don't exist in one's so-called "league?"

WANT_SOME_HAM · 2024-02-12T16:12:34+00:00

You don't have to explain this, because women aren't asking for your advice.

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ulovemoe · 2024-02-12T19:01:39+00:00

if you are chasing him then he's not on your level. If you are chasing, the guy's above your pay grade.

This is false. If you are chasing, it means they are not as interested in you as you are in them. Not that they are "above your pay grade". Not even that they aren't interested in you at all. Simply that you are the more interested party.

The notion that everyone has a one-dimensional "value" or "league" or "pay grade" in dating needs to die.

shonenhikada · 2024-02-12T17:49:39+00:00

This woman basically shows everything that you mention.

https://youtu.be/a9NRWm9Qvbw?si=kobKsQg2bK-nVuba

Basically social media has resulted in top guys being able to connect with so many much girls than they normal could have. This has resulted in men competing against not only with guys in their state/region,but men across the country, and in some cases internationally.

So 6/10 females are getting messages like this from guys in their prime (18-24) and under 30 in general.

<image>

Suddenly, her standards goes up and she will only be happy with guys that are 8/10. Sure she may settle later and accept a 6/10 and under as a partner, but she won't respect or love him really and likely leave him if an 8/10 wants to fully commit to her. This is part of hypergamy.

https://twitter.com/honestwamen/status/1756552872513450273

Women cannot REALLY love men that fall below men that they've previously been with. Sure they can lie to themselves and claim that they love their husband with all their heart but that's just not reality. This is why 1st time marriages only last 7.8 years compared to the past where we have couples being together for 25+ years. This is why 80-90% of divorces are filed by women, this is why married women reportedly less happy than single women.

Choice-Substance-183 · 2024-02-13T00:07:35+00:00

Who determines if someone is "not on my level"?

spanglesandbambi · 2024-02-12T15:24:27+00:00

Or that person is a prat. You just sound like women don't want you, so you want them to lower themselves and be grateful for your attention.

People can date whoever they choose, providing they are able to consent, it's no one else's buisness.

CauliflowerElegant76 · 2024-02-12T16:09:11+00:00

I agree with this. This is exactly why so many women end up in situationships or casual relationships these days. It creates a dysfunctional dynamic when the guy is above the woman’s level and doesn’t wanna commit to her, but she’s just wasting her time chasing after him.

apresonly · 2024-02-12T18:00:58+00:00

you're basically saying that we can't trust anything men say and have to mind read about whether these men think they are "above" us or not.

if a man pursues me and says he is interested in me, why would i assume he is lying?

Purple_Kangaroo8549 · 2024-02-12T18:17:02+00:00

A lot of women are just delusional. Obesity is rampant, tard politics, open hostility to the western world(not this post 70s hellscape entirely engineered by a cabal).

waffleznstuff30 · 2024-02-12T20:46:11+00:00

Or a lot of men are failing to meet basic standards?

I don't think we are punching too high. We want someone we are physically attracted to. If we are going to have sex and be physically affectionate with this person and it's on the table being attracted to them is a bare minimum. It's like the ticket to park before you even get to the place it's like the foot in the door. We want someone we connect with emotionally and mentally. I want to be able to have conversations with my person? Shared values and interests or at least a respect for different interests?

I would rather be alone than be with someone I am just not that into. It's not fair for them and it's not fair for me. That person deserves a chance to be someone else's hell yeah. As much as I deserve the chance to find my hell yeah. It's not leagues and stuff it's finding something that clicks with you?

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-02-12T17:45:06+00:00

The problem is access and brainwashing... The media and Hollywood have pushed for years that idea that a very average girl can bag a rich millionaire... Then you have social media and influencers faking lifestyles for likes and views which sells another fantasy because it's usually young men and women who are posting lavish lifestyles making other people think I can do that too and if you're a man and not able to provide what this influencer is able to provide you're not worthy... But the reality is most those influencers borrow or rent those luxuries

Defundisraelnow · 2024-02-12T18:44:35+00:00

So then everyone is out of everyone's league I guess. Because someone has to do the chasing.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2024-02-12T15:53:37+00:00

It’s not about a man being a higher “level” it’s that most men don’t want to commit now a days to any woman which I would agree should make women run away from these noncommittal men regardless of any other factors.

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-02-12T16:00:13+00:00

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this. Let them keep punching up and if they fail, the world will keep spinning. If they pass then hooray. Plus those women are probably chasing those men because they look good and seeing a good looking man is almost rare.

Either way, she’ll find someone because the overall majority of women tend to still find a guy to be with.

Also when women say “A guy on my level” it means “A guy on my level who is visually appealing”

GlitterAndFireballs · 2024-02-12T15:58:14+00:00

I agree with this. The man should always be chasing the woman in relationships.

If that’s not the case, he doesn’t like you and should be filtered out on that basis.

Did none of your female relatives ever tell you to make sure he loves you more than you love him?

DarayRaven · 2024-02-12T15:35:54+00:00

all I have to say simply is that: if you are chasing him then he's not on your level

Man dropped the reality bomb

this is like common sense but women seem to struggle with this concept

Hypergamy but l disagree

Jehshehabah · 2024-02-12T16:50:30+00:00

Getting hookups with guys above their level vs getting those same guys to commit are two completely different things.

Most women here are concerned that they can't get those guys out of their league to commit.

You know... the whole "I can fix him" meme.

chankletavoladora · 2024-02-12T18:33:41+00:00

Women only punch up or sideways. Men have no problem punching down. They can’t handle it when a guy knows they are replaceable and don’t put up with shit.

Rach1943 · 2024-02-12T18:52:24+00:00

what's compeletely missing in all these responses from women is that what they actually choose to go after and pursue often is different than there supposed "high standards".

these are all logical checklist responses.

when it comes down to actual relationships - women (and men) pursue people based on how they make them feel - the emotional attraction, chemistry, etc.

I sound crazy but, throw a mid value guy who really emotionally connects with a woman that says "I only deserve x,y,z" and suddenly the icks and dealbreakers get tossed out the window.

now of course, there is a lot of overlap between "high value" traits and these emotions/feelings (like looks is typically required and the standards for looks are high).

Pathosgrim · 2024-02-12T22:03:26+00:00

Blame their biology as well as western media that lionizes women to never settle.

wtknight · 2024-02-12T15:43:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

TRTGymBro · 2024-02-12T18:38:05+00:00

Man, you are not fucking getting it at all. Women WANT TO CHASE. They will never admit it, but chasing a man fulfills their innermost emotional needs. All women yearn for a man who is above them, their Prince Charming. It's been like this since times immemorial. Even in fairy tales, it is always the Prince or King that the girl is after. No woman wants to be pursued by a man because that automatically assumes that he is below her level. Pursing and adoring implies that you need the other person more than they need you.

You guys really need to pull your heads out of your asses and stop blaming women and demanding that they be attracted to something else as if you could simply wave a magic wand and wish hundreds and thousands of years worth of evolutionary mate selection criteria go away. It is not happening. The same way that no matter how much people screech about Fat Is Beautiful, no man who has options will choose to be with a fat, unattractive woman. Stop making these irrational demands. They are only causing your own suffering, depression and feelings of inadequacy. Instead, figure out how YOU can become HER Prince Charming and be that guy.

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interesting-mug · 2024-02-12T16:36:01+00:00

I’m incapable of feeling attraction to someone who doesn’t treasure me. I guess that makes me lucky (or a narcissist? Lol). It ends up with me being “the adored” in every relationship I’ve been in. But I also like being nice to my partner. Being treated well makes me want to reciprocate. I’d feel so bad if he thought I didn’t care/ thought he was “mid”.

If people could just learn to enjoy the calm happiness of emotional harmony, rather than needing the stimulation of drama and discord, I think there would be more happy relationships out there.

harmonica2 · 2024-02-12T17:08:35+00:00

My gf chased me and won me over so isn't it good if the woman chases the man as long as she wins him over?

mobjack · 2024-02-12T17:54:50+00:00

The adorer vs adored is too much black and white thinking.

If one person adores the other person 5% more, it doesn't mean that the other person is ambivalent. It is not exactly the same, but they are in the same league in how much they adore each other.

Safinated · 2024-02-12T18:20:35+00:00

Only the ones who are complaining

Sillysheila · 2024-02-12T18:25:41+00:00

My partner and I chased each other? Is a back and forth chase really that not common?

I personally, didn’t want to play hard to get and be all demure, and my partner loves me for it. I raised his confidence level by miles. Most men imo would love it if women chased them because they often aren’t chased, complimented or shamelessly hit on. It only makes their self confidence and ego stronger not weaker.

Elitus1337 · 2024-02-12T20:42:46+00:00

Adorer vs the adored

I despise "psychology" like this, this entire argument over who "loves" the other more is completely unverifiable, and thus unfalsifiable. You can make the claim, and it very well might be true, but it's simply impossible to actually prove one way or the other and if you let something like that influence your actions and emotions you're only making your relationships harder and more complicated than they need to be, based on a premise that you can never actually know the truth of, barring a mind/emotion reading machine being invented, God forbid such a nightmare ever comes true.

arsenalfc4life1500 · 2024-02-12T21:36:25+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttPre2uLbx4&t=205s See the couples around 6:02, 1:27, 3:20, 3:00, 3:32, 4:21, 5:42, 5:51.

Not everyone is "punching up" you know.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-02-12T21:45:03+00:00

Punching too high can be an issue, but the problem is in real life, people do not quite fall into tidy little leagues that everyone agrees on. And what “league” someone is in doesn’t always translate to how an individual will feel about them. I’ve been out of a guy’s league by most people’s estimation but totally into him and he was meh about me because he was hung up on an ex, and I’ve also been meh about some guys who were out of my league because something about their personality just didn’t appeal to me or I wasn’t over someone else. How you feel about someone can depend on a lot of factors that you can’t always account for objectively, like personality and timing.

I’ve personally found that it never works if one person loves the other more, it will inevitably result in resentment on both sides. As difficult as it can be to find equal love, it does exist and is worth it. This is not to say that you will both like each other equally 100% of the time or always show affection equally, there will be ups and downs and one person might be more openly demonstrative than the other. Relationships aren’t always 50/50, they’re sometimes 40/60 and other times 60/40 for example. But there should be consistent, visible effort on both sides, neither should be chasing and neither should be ambivalent. This is what was special when I started dating my fiancé. I was like “wow, for the first time I don’t feel smothered OR anxious because I’m not sure if he likes me, we actually… both really like spending time together?!”

Green-Quantity1032 · 2024-02-13T02:44:35+00:00

First video:

The like-magnitudes change daily and hourly.

When they man and the woman like each other in about similar levels - then sometimes the man wants more, and sometimes the woman wants more - and that's the best deal.

I've been in a relationship with my ex for 9 years - I didn't want it the same every day, neither did she - sometimes I felt like I want her more, and other times I felt like she's so sold on me it's becoming too easy.

I do agree that if there is a noticeable asymmetry - the dynamics of the relationship suffer (I'm not sure it's better that the man is the adored one than vice versa, but it might be better for the man).

Second video:

Her argument is kinda enticing.

Like seriously, the first 20 seconds I was like "she's right"..

But no - women, attractive women (personality too) - are able to lock-in men they want.

Sure, if you're less attractive, or your standards are too crazy (If he's not Ryan Gosling I'm not even gonna show up) - then yeah, you'll have to conced some of your wants.

So yeah, women who want to marry who aren't attractive enough - they'll have to take their 'mid'-man.

Attractive women who can keep their composure and character even when they're in love - they'll get the attractive men.

Does anyone see a bunch of really-attractive guys in their 40s running around from girl to girl? No, most of them married a cool chick at some point.

By the way - That woman is attractive, and I'd happily have sex with her on the spot and carry on to meet her on a weekly basis for a time - but her character is shit and I would never be her boyfriend, and you can tell this in 10 if not 2 minutes of conversation.

Her problem is not attractive men who don't want to settle, her problem is her bad character.

Bloodhoven_aka_Loner · 2024-02-13T10:33:46+00:00

Women "settling" in relationships

yeah, this guy here prett much explains what's wrong about her logic.

Title	Women punching too high in dating
Author	SlowEffective8146
Upvotes	111
Comments	487
Date	February 12, 2024 3:19 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ap2dg5/women_punching_too_high_in_dating/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-punching-too-high-in-dating.1245213 https://theredarchive.com/post/1245213

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