Women saying that men would be more attractive if they were more confident is a double-bind.

Muscletov · 2024-08-13T14:57:03+00:00

I think it's also messed up how everyone pretends "confidence" is some switch you flip in your head. In reality, there's a huge genetic aspect to it, plus the culminated experiences you made throughout your life, especially in childhood and youth. To tell a naturally more neurotic man who struggled with relationships from an early age onwards to become more confident is akin to telling him to grow 5 inches.

Plus more than enough women manage to be insecure, neurotic messes despite having never struggled in romantic/sexual way.

Salt_Alternative_86 · 2024-08-13T17:47:42+00:00

Your first mistake was listening to women telling you what they want. Women have no fucking clue what they want, and they WILL drag you down if you don't provide it.

Fabulous_HonestTea · 2024-08-13T15:02:55+00:00

If you were stunningly physically attractive, but had absolutely no self-confidence, women would be bending over backwards to give you that confidence with unwarranted, unprompted, positive attention. And also pussy.

The confidence comes from positive reinforcement, not out of thin air. Shocking, I know.

SlyStocks · 2024-08-14T06:09:59+00:00

Only hot men are “allowed” to act confident. Then they blame the attraction on the confidence, when it really is just the looks.

NeatEngineer5623 · 2024-08-14T08:19:34+00:00

It's insulting kind of advice if anything. Women have set the high standard to the point where the average man is now deemed unworthy but also they want to preach how confidence is the magic ingredient. The fact of the matter is, looks get your feet in the door, it's the deciding factor as to whether "am I giving this man the time of day to go further with or not" and then, his personality does the rest of the work. But looks always come first, but what can I really tell you? Women are absolutely incapable of acknowledging they are the ones who have caused men to feel less about themselves over having a statistical average size penis and somehow that is all mens fault too. Also the same women who have made men who aren't tall enough feel like they don't belong in the dating pool. Honestly, does anyone really believe a man who is 5ft3 with a head oozing full of confidence is going to overlook a 6ft tall shy guy? If that's the case then men might as well go around saying they would pick a woman who is 400lbs that thinks she is a 10 over a woman who is curvy that thinks she is a 4.

But also telling someone to just be confident when there is so much stigma towards men is like telling a person parkinson's disease to stop fidgeting and sit still.

Z0mbs · 2024-08-14T10:40:46+00:00

Be hot --> people treat you well --> you become confident

Be not hot --> people treat you poorly --> you are not confident

Independent-Key4328 · 2024-08-13T15:55:05+00:00

Happy to see that the men in here are pretty based.

My_House_on_Mars · 2024-08-13T14:42:13+00:00

[permanently deleted]

_90s_Nation_ · 2024-08-14T14:42:04+00:00

They don't realise that in our brains - Confidence comes from achievement.. Or through having logical reasons to be confident.

It's like... With women, she can be a 5/10 and somehow genuinely believe she's a 10

With Men, it doesn't work that way

VWGUYWV · 2024-08-13T15:10:15+00:00

Women hate ugly and/or incompetent men that are more confident than they think they should be.

It is creepy cringe and awkward to them….the trinity of female kryptonite

Specs400 · 2024-08-13T16:41:16+00:00

It's surely easier to be confident when the world has mostly welcomed you. But that same world that's been mostly indifferent to you or even shit on you is the world you live in, so you have to find a way to get comfortable in it.

I agree with the definition of confidence as being Ok with what happens, as opposed to feeling certain. Being OK is a challenge but thinking you have to feel certain or nearly so is a fools errand.

The world unfolds the way it unfolds and there's precious little we directly control. Even our emotional reactions are shaped by our genes and our past experiences, but we can control how we act in response. And for those of you who struggle with this, do what u/Sharp_Engineering379 suggested below and start small. And learn to savor the times when people respond well. We're wired to see threats (even when they're not there) and to remember them, but we can learn to see small kindnesses and revel in them, at least internally. Maybe don't do an actual heel click when the cashier say " have a dood day". But on the inside........

And if someone says that's self delusion, first, don't do that, and second, why not delude yourself a little? If you have to see it that way, why not try to convince yourself that you're more welcome than you are? God knows many of us have been deluding ourselves that everyone could give a shit, so what harm is there in balancing that account a little?

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-08-13T16:28:40+00:00

Confidence is largely a feedback of attractiveness doing it's job. Tis a common knowledge that pretty meat gets you positive reaction from people for doing good and makes them way more lenient if you are a twat. As a young individual goes through life like that the idea that everyone loves them, world is a wonderful place and every fuck up is but a minor setback becomes cemented in their head. Meanwhile it's direct opposite if genetic roll decided for you to be a short ugly gremlin.

New_Alarm4355 · 2024-08-13T19:17:36+00:00

I mean this is just the average double digit IQ of the average person lol, even if you point it out they won’t acknowledge it

Somerandomdudereborn · 2024-08-13T15:25:25+00:00

Ugly + "confidence" = Arrogant and creepy

Common-Ferret-1435 · 2024-08-13T14:47:38+00:00

Women do things by proxy.

Women promote massive physical violence against men via proxy, then lie and say “men are dangerous while we’re little dainty flowers”.

All to support a narrative.

What does this have to do with anything?

Women reject men via proxy as well. They seem to claim they’ll be raped and murdered if they admit why they’re turning a guy down, which can’t be said because this will get removed for “incl content” (remember, violence and censorship via proxy).

Gotta keep that halo polished.

So they claim confidence, personality, misogyny, politics, etc. and simply never admit the actual reasons which we all know exactly why.

So they lie and claim “confidence” as if that’s ever detectable (yet detectable visually).

Confidence just means “hand her money” . You exude confidence when you spend money on her, but sticking up for yourself isn’t confidence.

Paying the bill? Confidence.

Going 50/50? No confidence.

And you can see lack of confidence across the room or on a tinder swipe apparently. Which is why one of the filter criteria is “confidence” instead of other immutable things.

neverendingplush · 2024-08-13T15:22:29+00:00

How does one become confident, when they've never had a reason to be so.

KayRay1994 · 2024-08-13T15:26:09+00:00

Nah - confidence comes in different forms, hell, you can be confident and not approach anyone if that’s what you truly want to do.

The idea of being confident is to treat yourself like the best version of yourself, basically, love yourself and externalize that - problem is i get the vibe that what you think is confident is “be like chad”

even with that in mind, ironically, complaining that people will make fun of you for acting confident is, ironically, the least confident thing you can do. You’d be oozing with insecurity throughout and most people will see that you’re obviously faking for attention.

Become more confident, but figure out what confident means in accordance to you and your personality, values, etc - don’t try to live somebody else’s version of what confidence is.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-08-13T14:53:01+00:00

Confident and cocky are two different things.

Confident means relaxed and comfortable in his own skin, fine if she likes him, fine if she doesn’t. He isn’t overly invested in seeking validation or attention. Did I mention relaxed? R-e-l-a-x-e-d is the key. At ease. Enjoying other people and allowing them to talk and enjoy themselves in their own way. Might tell some funny stories, might laugh with others about their exploits. Shows interest in others without fawning.

Cocky is aggressive and ill-mannered, and trying too hard. That man is painfully aware of his posture and the tone and timbre of his voice, and clearly begging for attention and validation. He tries to make himself bigger and louder than everyone else, interrupts and is a know-it-all. Attempts to steer conversations back to him. Talks about himself and he’s always the hero of every story.

Sadsad0088 · 2024-08-14T08:15:01+00:00

Yes attractive men are confident therefore acting confident makes anyone attractive.

Just like my husband said that swimmers have huge body frames because swimming makes it larger, it’s the opposite they’re good swimmers because genetics help them. Does basket make you taller?

DamagedByPessimism · 2024-08-14T11:46:32+00:00

I am, do those women say he will be more attractive to/for THEM? Or just any other woman in general? Who does the man actually want?

Upset_Material_3372 · 2024-08-13T15:18:04+00:00

Women say they like confidence because they want exclusively very desirable men to approach them and when they don’t they think “oh well he must lack confidence.” As a cope in order to not address the gap in desirability between women and the only men they can find themselves attracted to.

beautyloser · 2024-08-13T14:52:07+00:00

i think you could be confusing women’s criticism of arrogant men with “being too confident.” the variable i would say most of us are concerned with is social grace and intelligence. is he confident or is he monopolizing the conversation? is he confident or is he hitting on every woman at the party? this is related to the problem of men getting shitty advice from socially inept corners of the manosphere (read: tate and PUAs)

Eastoss · 2024-08-13T14:43:24+00:00

My god it’s almost as if women are different from each other and are subjectively attracted to different things😱😱😱

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throwaway_alt_slo · 2024-08-15T09:27:08+00:00

Find out the hard way. It's also why the forbidden pill makes total sense and red pill is delusional and ****

TallFoundation7635 · 2024-08-15T10:19:21+00:00

Ignore the bluepilled women that are straight up lying to you to serve an ideology or lying to win an argument.

Only 4 things matter, money, muscles, game and frame. Not personality, not being a "nice guy".

Get better at talking to women, learn skills that will make you more money, Get as fit as you possibly can to match the demographic of women that you are going for, younger women look for a six pack, older women look for a man that has a lot of muscle but is 15 to 20 percent body fat, get plastic surgery to fix your face if you have to. If you are short, wear elevator shoes and lie to the bitch.

All of this advice is free, you don't need to pay for any person to teach you this. It just needs a ton of hard work. Don't let any of these women gaslight you or keep you in your comfort zone and be apathetic by telling you that personality is more important than attractiveness, the only way to be successful in this modern dating market is through brutal hard work and maximizing your attractiveness.

-Kalos · 2024-08-13T17:01:51+00:00

Confidence and arrogance aren't the same thing. Most people don't like arrogant people, most people like confident people. Your confidence should come from you anyway, not from external validation.

obviousredflag · 2024-08-13T15:10:51+00:00

perspective of a guy who never felt how it is to be confident.

Lysa_Bell · 2024-08-13T15:39:33+00:00

I can't speak for all women. But here is how it works for me:

I see a guy. Usually I don't find him attractive or something I even think he's ugly. I get to know him a little bit and see how he behaved. If he is confident in what he does and/or knows and shows it without being a show off or arrogant about it he starts becoming attractive to me. His weird looks start to look unique to me. I find things in his appearance that stand out and make him look good to me. He notice his details. Suddenly his overall appearance is much more attractive. I become attracted to him.

Happens all the time. This happens a lot to me with teachers back when I was still in school or university. Nowadays it happens mostly with people online.

Just the other day I started watching a dude on YouTube because he was talking about a topic I was interested in. I thought he looked awkward and almost like something was wrong with him. Then he started to talk about the topic and you could really tell how passionate he is. Suddenly I noticed how nice and relaxed his little motions were. And how he smiled when he got very excited about the topic. It was really impressive on how he talked and explained everything. Bam. Attracted. Now I think he looks actually pretty handsome. His confidence on that specific topic radiated without him being arrogant about it. He just really enjoyed what he was talking about and wanted to get other people to enjoy it too.

I think this kind of reaction happens for a lot of women. We don't think the majority of men is attractive, because it takes more than just physical attraction. But once that extra bit happens it like a light gets turned on.

It's about being confident in yourself. No being arrogant to show of and impress.

Few_Advertising3430 · 2024-08-13T17:35:09+00:00

Confidence should not require extentL validation. As humans we need some of it but we need to learn how to like ourselves in face of rejection.

I think people mix the definition of confidence at least how we mean it. Being confident is knowing even if you are rejected you have value, you don’t expect other people to reaffirm it. Complaining is fine but don’t start blaming other people, women in that case. If someone does not like you, you might have to wait, but you will meet someone where there is mutual interest.

And confidence, in general, is tricky, you don’t become confident if you don’t do things that scare you and acquire resilience in the process. Most successful people (in general not just in dating) say that when they first started they had to fake confidence until they actually become confident. Fake it till you make is true in that case.

lovelythecove · 2024-08-13T18:36:34+00:00

Well I feel like there’s a few things going on here.

Men and women alike are mostly decent enough people and will pad negative feedback most of the time. So women do this sometimes by truthfully acknowledging confidence is attractive, and then saying that would help less attractive men. In some ways it is an empty platitude, although it’s pretty much obvious that if you are unattractive and insecure, that’s less attractive than if you’re are unattractive and secure. That is not debatable.

HOWEVER…

Confidence is often being confused with authenticity, when a woman (or man) is genuinely trying to express this concept. It is not CONFIDENCE, in the sense you’re describing, of an arrogant, cocky, attractive man knowing (or faking) that he is hot shit, especially when he isn’t all that. What women actually are trying to convey their attraction to in these instances is AUTHENTICITY, which naturally sits as a foundation for true confidence. This is why women(and men) imply ANYONE can “become confident.” bc anyone can shift to living more authentically, and that is literally more attractive. Again, it’s just not debatable. Authenticity itself is always more attractive than faking something.

This is also why sometimes you hear about some short autistic guy (or whatever) who had mad game and got tons of pussy… because if you are GENUINELY AUTHENTIC and otherwise attractive enough, then the women in your niche will automatically be more attracted to you. And men would like you more too. Although some ppl of either sex also react very negatively to genuine authenticity because they are so repressed and inauthentic themselves that it’s a very clear mirror for that for them (since most people are generally semi-authentic, context-dependent, some of the time, and don’t trigger that in those types of ppl as much.)

Authenticity and confidence kind of read like the same thing in social situations, especially if you don’t end up knowing the person exuding the aura very well. But someone can be confident in an area while still being inauthentic, which people subtly pick up on. Authenticity can’t be faked. You are either being authentic or not! The act of trying to do it means you aren’t doing it.

You may be technically confident, but unable to be authentic. Look at someone like a DJ who makes amazing music in studio but on stage, can’t perform because they aren’t a performer — they’re inauthentically trying to be performers on stage, and they’re technically confident, and have ways to show it, but expressing it via performing on stage is an inauthentic medium for that. So then you’ll find ppl in the audience who are aware that some musicians just aren’t performers, or when they do perform it’s cringe or lackluster etc.

Thats why the “faking confidence” thing kind of works … until it doesn’t. Because it is an act. You run out of lines. You can’t improvise because it is not authentically YOU, it’s a role of who you THINK a confident person is, and you only know so much of the script. Other people notice this to varying degrees. Even if you practice really well and develop this ‘false confident self’ as much as you can — there’s gonna be some ppl who feel it some of the time, especially the more intimate the relationship.

Someone being authentically themselves doesn’t run out of lines. There’s no script. This is actually quite comforting socially for a lot of people. It’s one reason many people find young children’s candor particularly delightful as well. It has other potential drawbacks, but one thing that IS positive about it is that people generally love authenticity. it makes them feel safer around you and you just seem more solid and yes, confident.

So anywayyy in when ppl say “be confident”, what they should say is “be authentic.” It’s not a double-bind or some malicious test or something… it’s just a bad read on what trait they’re picking up on (usually) and they’re expressing it wrong.

meteorness123 · 2024-08-13T19:12:04+00:00

it's competence plus social skills/understanding your demographic. Autistically ranting about how you can't get a chick out of your league is as you might imagine a waste of time

ta06012022 · 2024-08-13T20:57:27+00:00

Women usually don't even realize their hypocrisy until I you point it out to them.

It’s not hypocrisy if one woman does/says one thing and another woman does/says another thing that contradicts it. That’s just differences among people.

Hypocrisy would be if the same woman says men should be more confident and also says that men should be less confident.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-08-13T15:06:01+00:00

Different women have different opinions on things. One will appreciate confidence, while another will find that confidence offputting.

Generally speaking, know your role and the limits of your attractiveness and manage your expectations accordingly. If you’re a 6, maybe don’t assume that confidently shooting your shot at a 10 is going to work out solely on confidence alone.

SaBahRub · 2024-08-13T15:12:13+00:00

lol no. You guys think confidence involves self aggrandizement, rudeness and aggression, that’s all

wtknight · 2024-08-13T17:10:52+00:00

There is a middle ground. Men just can’t be too confident or too shy or woe-is-me. It’s just like how most men don’t want to relationship up either complete prudes or a woman who has frequent casual sex age who might seem potentially disloyal.

Fair-Bus-4017 · 2024-08-13T17:27:47+00:00

Women in general will find confident men attractive. This doesn't apply to every women, and other factors can sway this opinion for different people. This isn't a hard concept this works for literally everything.

For example someone saying that they like girls with big tits, doesn't mean that they like every girl with big tits.

Reversegiraffe1 · 2024-08-13T19:48:05+00:00

I think one needs to hit a certain bar before confidence can really help you. If overall counting face and height you're a 6 or 7, confidence can help an otherwise shy and introverted man. However if you're a 3 or a 4, you are going to get some very bad reactions hitting on women that are 7s or 8s. No matter how confident you are. They may even be offended and you can get the cops or security of the venue called. A man in that situation should instead focus on not being a 3 or 4 instead of developing extreme confidence. This applies to women also. Knew a very obese and unattractive woman that would shoot her shot everywhere and it would never work except for a very small handful of desperate guys that were just looking for a quick and discrete lay. It would just be easier if she lost the weight cause that would have exponentially better results. So one needs to start by not being unattractive first before confidence does anything. This means the advice is valid but one needs to see it only applies to a group of people that have already met other prerequisites.

apresonly · 2024-08-13T21:50:44+00:00

Women would say that men who complain about getting no attention from women only have themselves to blame

i dont think women say this.

we all know people who are ugly through no fault of their own and looksmaxing/gymmaxing are only gonna do so much

some people are single through no fault of their own, some people choose singleness over dating, and some people could date if they improved one or more things about themselves

However I frequently hear women complain about men they know or even celebrities they don't find attractive for having a "unwarranted" confidence

stupid thing to complain about. everyone should have confidence in themselves.

if they are complaining about arrogance, they should specify that.

idlepetri · 2024-08-13T22:29:43+00:00

Rich. They mean rich.

Myagooshki2 · 2024-08-13T22:32:03+00:00

Women talking about unwarranted confidence is either shit testing or they are talking about a clash in values but projecting it that "those men shouldn't be so confident with those views".

Get it out of your head that confidence is NECESSARILY genetic or that you're a slave to your paat experiences. Drop some Molly and take a 5-HTP a few hours in so you're not depressed the next day.

Women in general literally saying that men would be more attractive if they were more confident is a plus. They're being less bitchy. Self improve self improve self improve, my friend.

Lolocraft1 · 2024-08-14T03:01:11+00:00

I believe it’s both or can be both. Even if the way you will be perceived depends a lot on others around you, meaning you can be found unnattractive to a lot of people even with confidence, but there absolutely is a part that yourself can play in this by being more confident

And it’s because confidence is something a lot of people, maybe women more than men, find attractive, hence the rhetoric. Even if it wouldn’t personally be the case for me, between a woman proud of her achievements, not afraid to try new things and willing to participate in activities and a woman constantly doubting of herself, degrading herself and who is scared of New to the point of anti-social behaviour, I am pretty sure the majority will go for the first option

Of course, that doesn’t mean people with confidence problem are solely to blame, as this can be caused by trauma, bullying and other things with a deep psychological impact. And this is another factor that one must work on to be more confident, and thus more attractive. And this is also why we shouldn’t judge people lacking self-esteem and instead try as much as we can to cheer them up and encourage them

Smergmerg432 · 2024-08-14T03:13:44+00:00

No men are attractive based on physical characteristics. If they don’t start out attractive some stupid cocky persona helps no one.

No-Weather-4970 · 2024-08-14T04:23:14+00:00

I think you exaggerate how much women dislike men acting "above their station."

Sure, there are limits, but if a man carries himself with confidence, they will sincerely suspect that he's got something good going on they haven't figured out. Sure you can pull out the 5 foot Indian janitor cliché, but take two men both average looking both overweight and if one guy looks dying of shame, yes didn't shave or shower or iron his short and the other guy at least is keeping it together and looks it, he will be treated at least a bit accordingly.

Men having it together really does matter to women. More than almost anything else. It sounds bluepill, but being one of the guys, being socially confident and able to have a laugh etc. will get you somewhere with women. Thing is it's not actually bluepill because some of these tendencies are either genetic or shaped by your upbringing, and if you take a wrong turn you can end up in a rut. Hence, Fake it 'til you make it.

Old_Luck285 · 2024-08-14T10:14:48+00:00

Real confidence comes from the inside, it's being okay with who you are, independent of external validation (or as much as possible). That's an attractive trait.

If I find you unattractive, I find you unattractive. But if you're confident, I'll likely find you a bit less unattractive than if you were a door mat on top.

W00DR0W__ · 2024-08-14T13:58:14+00:00

There’s a thin line between confident and cocky. Kind and smarmy. Charming and insincere

You have to strike the balance

Janice_the_Deathclaw · 2024-08-14T23:49:32+00:00

what do you want, big T'ed women to fall out of the sky so men don't have to make any effort with hygiene or their personalities? make an effort

toasterchild · 2024-08-13T19:30:32+00:00

Fake it till you make it.

Title	Women saying that men would be more attractive if they were more confident is a double-bind.
Author	Babyface_Bogart
Upvotes	195
Comments	489
Date	August 13, 2024 2:39 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1er9kle/women_saying_that_men_would_be_more_attractive_if/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-saying-that-men-would-be-more-attractive-if.1527168 https://theredarchive.com/post/1527168

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