Abortion Mega-Thread

DonQOnIce · 2022-05-07T16:14:12+00:00

“Women can just travel to another state to get an abortion”

Plane tickets, gas money, hotel, time off work, then $500-1000 for the procedure.

Most people cannot manage this especially in a small window of time. Do people who say this live in the real world?

Retrojazzer17 · 2022-05-07T22:50:52+00:00

The men here who support the abortion ban better not complain about child custody laws and child support. This is a major step back from truly having equality among the genders and the fact that some of you guys are celebrating this exposes your faux advocacy for equality.

localmicrodosechamp · 2022-05-07T21:17:37+00:00

Fathers should be forced to give their children any organ the child might need even if it results in the fathers death.
Child support should start at conception

bleb_ploleman · 2022-05-07T17:49:05+00:00

Lmao if you think you can’t get laid now just wait

HateSluts · 2022-05-14T05:30:45+00:00

Why do the women on here care so much about abortions getting banned? Don't you guys constantly proclaim that "sex isn't a big deal"? If so, then the solution to your problems is simple, just stop having sex!

IveGotIssues9918 · 2022-05-13T18:43:53+00:00

I've already posted about why exceptions for rape aren't morally consistent, but let's get into why they're not enforceable:

Half of y'all think that women are running around falsely accusing men of rape for shits and giggles NOW. How many false accusations do you think there will be if a rape accusation is the only way to obtain an abortion?

I'm assuming that it would take more than a woman saying "I was raped, please give me an abortion" in order to qualify for this exception, since that's not an exception at all. Literally anyone can say at the clinic that they were a victim of rape.

If it requires naming of a specific assailant, that's going to screw over actual rape victims because: 1) many don't even know the first names of their assailants, let alone their full names and 2) of those who DO know their assailant's names, many will be afraid to name him because he's probably someone actually in her life (boss/coworker, friend, or family member) and naming him will have dire consequences for her. And again, this will lead to false accusations against specific men, even from women who would never dream of doing such a thing otherwise (people who are backed into a corner are likely to behave against the moral principles they normally have, and if it's their livelihood or their very LIFE vs. someone else's, I'd say the majority of people will throw the other person under the bus to save themselves).

If it requires filing a police report, the fact that filing a false police report is a crime may deter some would-be liars, but again, people who are desperate will take desperate measures. Pretty much anyone, upon finding out that they are pregnant, can go to the police and say that they were raped by a random stranger last month and give some generic story/description.

If it requires a criminal conviction of an assailant, that's impossible because of the amount of time that it takes to convict a rapist (even ignoring the fact that most rapists aren't convicted at all). By the time the sperm donor is convicted, the kid is already 4 years old. There is basically no instance where a rapist will be convicted fast enough for their victim to obtain an abortion, not to mention that the later the abortion takes place, the stronger the "killing a human" argument becomes- is it moral to let a fetus that could have been aborted as a 6 week old embryo before it had the ability to perceive develop to 25 weeks and then be aborted when it can perceive, even if we ignore how immoral it is to force a rape victim to go through most of a pregnancy?

It's in the same wheelhouse as "ban abortions for people who didn't use contraception". If the standards for proof are lax, then it's not a standard at all, and if the standards for proof are strict, that's going to disqualify most if not all of the people who actually qualify for the exception.

LillthOfBabylon · 2022-05-07T18:55:20+00:00

I'm creeped whenever woke people cry "Think of the poor minorities!" Like, I thought abortion was about helping ALL WOMEN, you seem oddly obsessed with poor people and minorities getting one. Does not help with allegations of Planned Parenthood being started by eugenists.

Special_Ice_5935 · 2022-05-07T23:14:00+00:00

If you’re thinking you have a right to make your own healthcare decisions, that ship sailed 2 years ago, and you cheered when it did, so go fuck yourself

LillthOfBabylon · 2022-05-13T11:32:44+00:00

I hope Europeans aren’t complaining about R v W possibly being over turned, considering most European countries have stricter abortion laws than in the USA. Hell, FLORIDA now has looser abortion restrictions than most European countries.

techr0nin · 2022-05-07T15:14:55+00:00

Unpopular opinion but legally speaking I don’t think it’s unfair to argue that abortion is not a right protected by the constitution of the United States.

If people want abortion, it should probably be made into law whether locally or federally.

sarkington · 2022-05-07T14:07:54+00:00

Another one? Has anything changed ?

2022-05-12T21:07:05+00:00

On the subject of financial abortion, I say child support is an ineffective bandaid solution that still sees a lot of kids not properly taken care of. I think it should be abolished and replaced with effective institutional supports for parents that could make raising a child as a solo parent viable.

siletntium · 2022-05-12T17:19:25+00:00

Your not pro-choice your pro-abortion if you were pro-choice you would give the man as much of a choice as the woman has.

Both agree to have sex and the woman gets pregnant the woman can either keep or abort. Then man cant financially abort so the man is locked in and the woman can do whatever she wants. The man has no choice and the woman has all the choice.

Kahing · 2022-05-12T15:19:12+00:00

Interesting watching this from outside, I grew up in the USA but live in Israel, where abortions technically have to be approved by a government committee (which approves 98% of requests) but is de facto tolerated to a wider extent as no one who performs or gets an abortion outside this system is prosecuted to the best of my knowledge. Many European nations also have reasonable access to abortion but with limits. The debate in the US is comparatively wild, ranging from "it's not a human until it leaves the birth canal" to "it's a human from the moment a sperm leaves the egg."

Anyway, as to my view on Roe v Wade, it's a complicated subject. Here's my opinion, an outright abortion ban is stupid and this could have bad consequences in states where it's banned, but from a purely legal standpoint this is the correct decision. Roe v Wade was decided on pretty flimsy constitutional grounds. If it hadn't gone down that way then perhaps the natural progress that was already happening would result in US states adopting measures similar to the way European countries typically do it today.

dottywine · 2022-05-12T05:52:25+00:00

I'll be getting more active with my vote. Not sure what else to do.

FenaPugi · 2022-05-12T02:27:27+00:00

Realised there's an abortion thread so I may as well post what I posted in the daily thread just now.

Men are inadvertently gated out of life outcomes these days.

A man inadvertently doesn't have inherent sociological value, he can advertently build on his socioeconomic value but at the end of the day, his inadvertent sociological value will never be recognised if doesn't do 'the bare minimum,' 'doesn't man up' or 'doesn't nut up or shut up'; all of which correlate to his built-up/ man-made socioeconomic value.

This advertently defined yet implicitly expected socioeconomic value is what a man must push through. If a man doesn't do this, he isn't considered a man to most and the women who do stay with him are seen to be staying out of pity, and not out of love/ something she sees in him.

Ofc conversely women have an advertently defined yet implicitly expected birthgiver role. If she doesn't do this then she isn't considered part of the tribe anymore, every woman in the tribe will frown upon her with all manners of diatribe.

Denying a womens right to abort is to deny her sociological autonomy. By having an advertently defined yet implicitly expected sociological autonomous system then I don't see how we can expect women to not revolt? It's inhumane to not let women abort.

Where do we draw the line? When fascists act out? When rapists get off easy? When men are taken off their job (which inadvertently correlates to his socioeconomic life support)? When men are denied opportunities for roles because 'he has a certain immutable character trait'?

Trick questions: these are all merely a product of our implicitly pragmatic democracy which is constantly being built on with a capitalistic incentive. It's not self sustaining. We will die off if we don't figure out a compromise that allows for a liberal yet current victim prioritisation in the justice system. Bandwagoners are inevitable so we should only go by previous cases for the time being.

Unfortunately for women, this is another case of their rights being stripped from them. If it's any consolation, you'll like become the next aunties who rear the next generation of men to go to war! /s

LittleDragonMaiden · 2022-05-07T18:47:45+00:00

I always felt like casual sex tends to be a bad thing so one positive of this is that casual sex with reduce dramatically. That being said, I do think a woman should have the right to an abortion and the government shouldn’t interfere.

catniagara · 2022-05-11T21:28:01+00:00

Mine was bestowed upon me by nature. The tumour was removed last August, the whole uterus may be next on the yeet list.

Laytheblameonluck · 2022-05-11T20:56:59+00:00

... if the roles were reversed I’d be ready to go to war for them. It makes me wonder if they even see me as an equal.

/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/un90lo/why_arent_the_men_in_my_life_getting_angry_with_me/

This lack of anger by the Average Frustrated Chump is because the world hasn't being beating them hard enough!

Sex is a right, why can't men care about this!

DonQOnIce · 2022-05-11T12:41:48+00:00

People who think this should be left up to the states: how do you determine which things should be left up to states and which things should be federally protected or mandated?

PopAccomplished3995 · 2022-05-11T04:51:01+00:00

Didn't take long for them to start talking about banning contraceptives.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/08/abortion-tate-reeves-mississippi-contraception/

yvaN_ehT_nioJ · 2022-05-11T00:18:24+00:00

So nice to see people caring about Brian's functioning. He's doing his best!

LowCreddit · 2022-05-10T21:39:44+00:00

Abortion should be available to the mother and father. It should be easy, cheap, and safe. It really is that simple. If I could have my way, I would allow parents to abort their children up til the age of ten. If your parents don't love you, then I probably won't either.

relish5k · 2022-05-10T19:13:17+00:00

Thoughts:

Every child deserves to be loved and wanted. I can't imagine being born into a world where my own mother is ambivalent about my existence. My mother is my best friend and strongest advocate, and it's gotten me everywhere in life. I want to live in a world where everyone is as close to being as lucky as I am in that regard. If being pregnant with me had caused my mother pain or anguish, then I would hope that she would have the opportunity to free herself from that anguish, even if that means I would have never been born. The cost of living a life at the price of my mother's misery is too damn high.
The first trimester is a weird time. There is sort of a baby, but there's sort of not a baby. Things are not easily definable. Sometimes a woman wants to be pregnant, but the baby isn't right to be born, and she has a miscarriage. It is sad and disappointing, but it's better than birthing a child who isn't ready for life. Same in the other direction. Babies are so helpless. They need to be born to women who are all in on being mothers - motherhood is taxing as all hell. They count on their mothers to do everything for them. If a woman knows she can't give a child what it needs, then the best decision is ending the pregnancy that isn't meant to be. Having a baby requires a double opt-in system: fetus opts in that it is physically viable, woman opts it that it is environmentally viable.
Adoption is a parenting choice, not a reproductive choice. When denied access to abortion 9/10 mothers will choose to raise their babies in a less than ideal environment than give them up, so we will have the issue of most children end up being born in less than ideal environments. And there is a lot of extremely valid criticism of infant-stranger-adoption from adoptees all over social media that is worth seriously considering.
Most women want to have ~2 children. Access to contraception and abortion ensures that these children are born when the woman is most able to care for them. We can have a world that is populated with every mother make an affirmative decision - yes, I want to be a mother and yes, I am providing the best possible home for my babies or "eh well guess I'm going to be a mom now FML" - which world do you think is going to produce the greatest experience for its denizens? We can make a world where every child is wanted and loved - and we need abortion to do it.
Realized fertility rate in the US is less than the ideal fertility rate, because kids are so damn expensive. Birth rate is going down, people are freaking out. So we have two options - create real material change to support young, working families. Or force de wymynz to have de babies. One requires a hard a complex problem solving for systemic issues. One requires...writing words down. Gee I wonder which one we are going with.

LMM-GT02 · 2022-05-10T19:08:32+00:00

Ain’t no child put into a woman in this world without a cock or a turkey baster.

Take precautions instead of hopping on dick like a frog on lily pads.

There’s condoms, birth control, plan B, and not letting a dude hit it raw.

But we live in the 21st century and being a bonafide hoe is very easy and profitable.

It ain’t yo right to take dick just like it ain’t my right to slang it.

TheJim66 · 2022-05-10T18:15:00+00:00

Lol, so fun seeing women freak out about not being able to rid themselves of parenthood while that has been the case for men since the beginning and across the world. The cherry on top of course is asking men to support them, while they never did anything to support financial abortions.

Now, let's address some of the many moronic arguments in this thread

-Banning abortion will mean men won't be having casual sex.

Uhm.... how many men do you think get casual sex in the first place? If banning abortion makes women prioritize stability more than their tingles that's a net positive for men. Stable men are the majority of men, the unstable ones are the minority who have been getting casual sex in the first place (and let's not kid ourselves, you aren't gonna ignore your tingles). This whole situation is a net positive for men. You aren't raising your standards, you are lowering them.

-Banning abortion means men will have to pay more child support.

Abortion doesn't protect men. Men have no input on whether the woman will abort or not and since financial abortion isn't a thing, whether they'll pay child support or not depends on the woman's whims. Basically the man can only use condoms and pray that the woman will not want to keep the kid. This is obviously not protection.

-Pro lifers, as much as I thank you for banning abortion, a fetus isn't a human life. It's a brainless clump of cells. I don't know what scientific basis youre using to say that it's not.

All in all, it's good that the inequality of abortion has been partially corrected, even if not in the direction I would have preferred. Let's hope that women wise up and offer an actually equal proposition (hint :abortion + financial abortion being legal) so that men start giving a fuck about your issue. Because as it is, we really don't.

Edit:Forgot the best one!

-If abortion is illegal then they should make child support start at pregnancy.

Woman, we are forced to pay for your whims for 18 years. You think 9 months means anything to us?

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-05-10T12:51:48+00:00

Abortions are moot when microplastics have made everyone sterile anyway. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

LillthOfBabylon · 2022-05-10T11:34:15+00:00

List of arguments I hate:

“I dont have to care about government programs to care about life.”
Then you’re just a virtue signaling asshole. No one wants to hear from a virtue signaling asshole that’s no different from his opposition. You’re not pro-life, you’re pro-birth. Actually give a shit about the life created. You’re no better than the parent who thinks keeping their kid alive is worthy of praise.

“Fetus means baby”
And molest means annoy. Lets not play those word games.

“Think of the poor minorities!”

Ok, Eugenist.
Unless they were raped, why? This situation seems highly preventable considering how cheap condoms are. Also, plan B just in case you think the condom broke or wasn’t enough.

“Men are allowed to walk away but women can’t.”That’s not true because child support. Child support is suppose to keep the guy accountable for the kids he make. Now I will admit, certain local laws that might be stupid and unintentionally screwing women over. Don’t let broke losers creampie you. Do ass play. Hell, during the pandemic, men’s relief were cut if they owed child support.

“More abortions = less crimes!”Again, EUGENICS.Also, that thought process ignores alot of factors.Around the 70s to 90s, drugs was a problem and that’s putting it lightly. War on Drugs, Drug addicts committing crimes, Drug cartels, mob shit in general.Homicide was high as hell until the 2000s.Tough on crime approaches cleaned up the streets (despite flaws with those policies).

nemma88 · 2022-05-10T09:11:25+00:00

There are lots of different debates and lots of different ideas about when life begins. As we have abortion here it is predicated on the notion;

Everyone has the right to life; no one has the right to someone elses body to provide that life.

As the cut off for termination is by medical consensus the earliest natural point a fetus could sustain it's own life, or in other words it's now developmentally viable for life and interference is taking that away.

Essentially that puts life begins at ; Able to sustain life. Which is important to the medical field as we can keep hearts pumping indefinitely. They do no harm, and they can turn off life support.

-

Roe vs Wade (as I understand it) is built on the right to privacy. While there's something to be said about the precedents of right to privacy being diluted in the USA, it is a whole other can of worms, there are better and stronger precedents that can be made.

zedzilliot · 2022-05-10T06:42:37+00:00

I am pro killing children

SSCookieLover · 2022-05-10T05:41:39+00:00

If only we care so much to help a random living person who got into an accident medical expense instead of some random women fetus. Ain't that funny /s

Willow-girl · 2022-05-10T02:11:50+00:00

I was pondering this topic tonight at work and it occurred to me it's something of a natural progression, given American history.

When the founders wrote about things like the innate right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," they didn't mean that everyone should have those rights, of course; they were talking about white men. This was so much taken for granted that no one even pointed out the hypocrisy of Thomas Jefferson, author of the phrase, being a slaveowner. Everyone knew who TJ was talking about: white men! It wasn't even questioned.

But, funny, once ideas like "inalienable rights" start floating around in the general population, things begin to happen. Pretty soon other people started wanting those rights, too, and fought for them, and eventually won. Women, nonwhite people, gay people, etc. Over time, our ideas about who is allowed at the table have gradually expanded; not without controversy, of course, but ever moving in the direction of being more expansive, more inclusive. Now, it seems, preborn humans are about to be ushered into the room and given a seat, too. Is it really a surprise?

IveGotIssues9918 · 2022-05-09T19:24:26+00:00

"Abortion is about escaping responsibility! You chose to have sex, so you should just accept the consequences of your actions!"

Okay, so using that logic, smokers who develop lung cancer should be denied chemo because they chose to smoke. People who contract COVID should be denied ventilators because it was their choice to be unmasked/unvaccinated. People who develop cavities should be denied root canals because it was their choice to not brush/floss properly. I could go on.

"That's different because embryos aren't cancer cells or rotten teeth, they're human beings and abortion is murder!"

Okay, so abortion should be banned in all cases, including rape. After all, it's not legal for a mother to suffocate her born child if he or she was conceived as the result of rape. Murder is murder.

"No, because those women are in that situation through no fault of their own! If you choose to have sex you should have to live with the consequences of your actions!"

Repeat ad infinitum.

LillthOfBabylon · 2022-05-07T18:58:24+00:00

Something I wish pro-life people would shut the fuck up about: "No abortions = no hookup culture." WRONG.

Contraceptive's very effective.
Stupid people will always be irresponsible and think with their genitals.
I highly doubt most women getting abortions are having more than one.
While overturning Roe V Wade will make getting abortion for some people harder, getting an abortion is already a hassle. Abortions are expensive and cannot be covered by healthcare.

goatismycopilot · 2022-05-07T20:05:28+00:00

I think striking down abortion and leaving it to the states discretion will open the door to some other challenges and the US will become more balkanized between South + Texas/Florida and the rest of the US and urban/rural.

I pretty much saw this coming in 2016 so I am not so ragey despite being told a million times the SC would never reverse settled law. I think Atlas waved me off countless times on that one.

What interests me are the other implications. If you do not want women of reproductive age not to get abortions would it also not make sense to restrict things like travel out of state or travel? Could they be required to submit to pregnancy tests before leaving the state or country? What other rights would the state have to restrict?

addarail · 2022-05-07T23:32:45+00:00

I’m confused as to why this is a discussion . After the first trimester I can understand why it would be considered hurting an unborn baby, or when they start to feel and develop more . Is this because of “god sends his spirits to the womb”? I’m just confused . So many pregnancies end in miscarriage , do they get sent to jail for manslaughter ? Can we put this energy into already born kids who are in the foster care with nothing ? We don’t need more kids because someone’s worried about a woman’s clump of cells that hasn’t developed yet .

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-05-07T23:06:05+00:00

So does this mean like 9 more months of child support or?

ex_red_black_piller · 2022-05-07T22:46:05+00:00

Sex is not a need anyways, as women love to remind men.

Don't fuck if you don't want kids.

boomcheese44 · 2022-05-07T17:03:35+00:00

I just see a future where women will be even more savage when it comes to dating or will just resign to total celibacy. Unless they can find a way to ban women from working, its still going to be mixed/poor results.

LillthOfBabylon · 2022-05-07T19:05:29+00:00

Losers: It's unfair that women can get abortion, but I have to pay child support. We should be pro-choice for both people or no choice at all!

Trad-Cons: Your terms are acceptable!

Losers: Thank yo-

Trad-Cons: *Trying to overturn Roe V Wade and severely restrict/ban abortion in their states*

Losers: NO! NOT LIKE THAT!

QuenchlessGato · 2022-05-09T15:41:08+00:00

But we are still referring to the past and not the current state of other being. You can't be convicted of "murdering" a dead man.

RegTextoffender · 2022-05-09T15:33:23+00:00

Abortions for some.

Tiny American flags for others.

kittenated · 2022-05-09T14:33:07+00:00

A sub littered with men who conjure revenge fantasies on the daily because they resent the living fuck out of women who can get sex whenever they want.

HMM.

I WONDER HOW THIS THREAD IS GOING.

NalkaNalka · 2022-05-07T18:48:43+00:00

Woman of PPD:

"Stupid men don't you see this will mean less sex for chads, players, lowlifes, fuckboys, drug dealers and similar types that have most of the casual sex."

Betas of PPD:

"I see that as a absolute win"

Blame_the_Muse · 2022-05-07T21:56:04+00:00

I mean, the SCARIEST thing the men who wrote ALIEN (1979) could think of was a living thing taking up residence in your torso then bursting out of you.

EDIT: The man who wrote Alien has said it's about "What if a monster raped and impregnanted men?"

How do we feel about tweets like this?

Lysa_Bell · 2022-05-07T17:34:18+00:00

Its Funny how many guys are saying "good! Women shouldn't have casual sex just with guys that can't support them and that they don't want to have a baby with".

This will make it harder for the average guy to get a date at all because the filter will be more brutal on them. They assume it will give them more opportunities to show they are worth it.

Also: abortion happens for married couples and people in relationships in general. Someone that doesn't want a baby shouldn't be forced to it especially when it comes to being the carrier for something that feels like a parasite to you.

doshkhaleesi · 2022-05-07T23:14:07+00:00

I worked at a reproductive health site 20+ years ago and since the salary sucked at least I can flex on the internet for a minute.

The writing was on the wall then. Ever since 2000 states were pushing fetal personhood bills, waiting period bills, parental consent/notification bills, and those TRAP laws that basically regulated abortion clinics to the nth dimension by forcing them to spend themselves to death on renovations (building codes requiring certain sizes for the vents, lights being no further than [X] inches apart, doors a certain way, etc.) to meet a million specs. They required clinics to have hospital privileges or other things that were too expensive to maintain. Clinics have closed down in many parts of the country.

There are 6 states in the US that have ONE abortion clinic only. One. North Dakota is one. How big is North Dakota? Really fucking big.

I guess I don't really even see this as a huge deal. States have been steadily forcing clinics out of business and making it harder and more expensive to get an abortion for 20+ years. All this does is tear away the by now gossamer-thin fabric of federal protection, and the people in the blue cities are just as fucked as their rural red counterparts in some states now, although generally they are more likely to have the money to travel out of state.

Also, while I have sympathy, this shit has been going on for 20 years. Not overnight. Not in one election cycle. TWENTY YEARS and the people doing it get voted in all the time because the people who are hurt by these laws consistently do not vote. Guess what? Old men and women have been taking away your rights for 30 years because they vote in the greatest numbers. College students don't vote. Early 20-somethings don't vote. Even when I was in my early 20s most of the young men and women I knew hadn't a fucking clue about the issues or elections or cared. Are the ones who are livid the ones who voted? Probably. But I can tell you a whole lot of those who are angry aren't even registered or just sit the elections out because "muh both sides." Over 20 years we could have built up a very solid base fighting back at the voting booth but we didn't. Sucks to be us.

swedebeanz · 2022-05-07T18:54:31+00:00

they are pro life until the baby is born

amendment64 · 2022-05-07T22:39:19+00:00

Who else is glad to live in a progressive state that enshrines the right to a women's bodily autonomy regardless of the SC decision?! Woot woot, love my state! You religious nutjobs can access our womens health sevices in CO anytime you want, I'll be more than happy to send my donation dollars to organizations who fund women needing help finding access to critical health services like abortion(and associated transport and lodging costs) or counseling services post procedure who are trapped in those despotic hellholes.

In the meantime, I guess I've got to start voting democrat again until we can get new supreme court justices who don't want to live in the fucking 1700's. I never thought I'd be a single issue voter, but goddamn have the GOP done a great job pushing people away. Wish we had a viable third party :/

Nut_Cutlet · 2022-05-08T00:02:34+00:00

Child support during pregnancy when? If we want to ban non medically necessary abortions, then men need to be held accountable for their behavior during the females pregnancy also. Personally I don't see any good reason to ban abortions during the stages in which a fetus is not yet sentient.

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ChadThundagaCock · 2022-05-07T22:05:30+00:00

My thoughts? If you want abortion to be legal, then you better fucking legalize drugs. Because I think murdering babies is a bit worse than doing drugs.

Other-Damage-7675 · 2022-05-09T13:52:00+00:00

Ultimately being Pro-Choice is all about abandoning responsibility and escaping accountability, it's not hard to see why this appeals to so many women.

LillthOfBabylon · 2022-05-09T11:17:14+00:00

Please stop making the abortion debate men vs women. You look stupid and uneducated when you do. Gender DOES NOT determine opinions on abortion.

Duke_thiccus · 2022-05-07T14:22:16+00:00

Honestly, with the billion and a half options of contraceptives out there, is abortion actually necessary? Even in cases of rape you can get state-funded plan B.

QuenchlessGato · 2022-05-09T10:00:57+00:00

Anyone who thinks that human life does not begin at conception is 100% anti-science. Have the fact-checkers weighed on this yet?

DaphneDK42 · 2022-05-09T09:34:00+00:00

Monday morning poem'ing:

Somewhere at some time

They committed themselves to me

And so, I was!

Small, but I WAS!

Tiny, in shape

Lusting to live

I hung in my pulsing cave.

Soon they knew of me

My mother —my father.

I had no say in my being

I lived on trust

And love

Tho' I couldn't think

Each part of me was saying

A silent 'Wait for me

I will bring you love!'

I was taken

Blind, naked, defenseless

By the hand of one

Whose good name

Was graven on a brass plate

in Wimpole Street,

and dropped on the sterile floor

of a foot operated plastic waste

bucket.

There was no Queens Counsel

To take my brief.

The cot I might have warmed

Stood in Harrod's shop window.

When my passing was told

My father smiled.

No grief filled my empty space.

My death was celebrated

With tickets to see Danny la Rue

Who was pretending to be a woman

Like my mother was.

dbz19 · 2022-05-09T09:26:58+00:00

Being pro-abortion is the ultimate form of capitalism. It’s the manifestation of materialism and throw-away culture. You see human life in terms of dollars and cents. “Can I afford this person? Isn’t it financially cheaper to throw their life away?” You’re like the factory CEO who is fine with workers dying because you see their lives as disposable and only a means to boost your profit.

E-2-butene · 2022-05-09T05:21:05+00:00

Q4Life@Conception:

If we accept the idea that life begins at conception, this naturally means that the earliest stages of the embryo should sufficiently by considered a “person” because it can develop into a unique individual.

However, individual blastomeres (cells comprising the early stage embryos) are widely considered to by totipotent. That is, they can each develop into full function human being if separated from the zygote. Each of these blastomeres should therefore be considered a “person” as well, at least once separated from the original zygote.

In vitro fertilization often makes use of a technique called blastomere biopsy to take one of these cells and test the embryo for genetic defects. This leaves the original embryo largely unaffected, but based on the logic above, the act of removing this blastomere for testing is creating a new life which is subsequently consumed during the genetic testing.

Is IVF genetic testing therefore murder and should we take steps to ban it?

houstongradengineer · 2022-05-09T00:59:31+00:00

"A demand for domestic infants" was cited in the leaked Roe draft against abortion rights. That's exactly the type of reason I want a MOTHER to make this INDIVIDUAL decision instead of a bunch of old, thoughtless shills making a sweeping, universal decision. No matter what the worst reason a mother gives for abortion or childbirth, it's a better fucking reason than "a demand for domestic infants" to be molded into the image of some self-centered adults.

RedditDeservesNoHero · 2022-05-08T23:14:37+00:00

Imagine not living in the northeast, literally can not.

Nut_Cutlet · 2022-05-08T21:44:36+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Blame_the_Muse · 2022-05-08T21:37:19+00:00

An ob-gyn tweeted:

[Since “life begins at conception,” should identical twins be considered one person?

Obviously this answer is no. And, as such, the beginning of “life” is a philosophical discussion, not a medical absolute.](https://twitter.com/MamaDoctorJones/status/1523411178642284544)

cuckedalt · 2022-05-08T19:43:05+00:00

With Roe likely to fall, Senate Republicans weigh nationwide abortion restrictions

Mitch McConnell Acknowledges a National Abortion Ban Is “Possible” if Roe Is Overturned The top Senate Republican explained that a federal abortion ban is on the table in his most explicit comments to date about what the SCOTUS draft leak could mean going forward.

ahandtoyourdarknessx · 2022-05-08T18:52:58+00:00

Your body, your choice, your responsibility

baresquad · 2022-05-08T18:00:38+00:00

As a sexually active man, I really don’t understand why my and who I have sex with lives have to be dictated by people who don’t even know us? If I were to get somebody pregnant and we got an abortion, that’s our business

It’s weird as hell that people are trying to tell me that my partner wouldn’t be able to make a decision that I’d clearly support

Men have sex to guys, abortions benefit us.

NiceGuyNumber4 · 2022-05-08T17:56:49+00:00

Firstly, I'm claiming credit for this thread existing.

Secondly, all human life begins with conception (or the cloning equivalent). There does not exist a counterexample of a human life beginning without that specific first step. Thus, it is the beginning of all human life.

Any discussion on the morality of abortion is a discussion on ending a human life for the "greater good" and is an argument for eugenics.

I can fully get behind that if we add fat people to the list of people we can kill for the betterment of society, but until then I don't think we should be ending the lives of innocent humans for the convenience of the mother or because you don't think poor people should have kids.

scwizard · 2022-05-08T17:13:19+00:00

Ectopic pregnancies have about a 1.97% occurrence rate, which means in America over 71 thousand women need an abortion to avoid dying every single year

Is this true? That seems like an absurdly high rate.

EDIT: apparently it is true but ectopic pregnancy isn't 100% fatal without an abortion.

Reisiluu · 2022-05-08T16:59:22+00:00

Are women forced to stop certain medications like valproate, methotrexate or warfarin if they become pregnant and it's illegal to get an abortion? It would be unethical to force women to stop treating their medical conditions because another person is using her body.

Mark_Freed · 2022-05-08T16:05:00+00:00

https://i.imgur.com/GNfyLLX.png

Cognition is a continuum and it can't be immediately before exiting the vagina that the infant obtains the ability to feel pain. By end of week 5 to week 6 we see brain activity - unorganized neural firing%20does%20the%20first%20electrical%20brain%20activity%20begin%20to%20occur.) and free nerve ending start to form. Some jurisdictions ban abortions after this point due to the heartbeat. By week 13 the fetus has begun to move. By week 15 the fetus has developed taste buds and will start to remember the taste of food that mom eats, they will also have developed receptors for pain throughout the body. By week 23 the fetus can survive outside the womb with medical support and can feel pain since neurons now extend from the spinal cord to the brain. By week 24%20in%20speech.%20) it can hear sounds. By 25 or 26 it responds to sounds.

Due to painkilling drugs crossing the placenta there are no norms in place for giving the fetus anesthesia before performing abortion. So it makes sense why after 24 weeks is the point where India put in the requirement for a Medical Board to recognize substantial foetal abnormalities. Any restrictions before that would just lead to crime, unsafe abortions etc. By week 30 fetuses seem to be capable of forming memory, and by 33 it should be able to feel heat, cold, pressure etc. Interestingly depending on the adult all episodic memories (memories of situations or events) before age 2 - 8 will be forgotten. If you look at reasons for performing abortion financial, career and relationship impacts are the major reason.

Now personally... I think we should make it easy, free and accessible for weeks 0 to 12 or so. Make it easier to detect pregnancies quickly.

After that we can have moral shaming, norms to discourage an easy decision. BUT the decision should be in the hands of the parents who will have to take the responsibility of raising the kid.

As a society we can have expectations in place that make abortion a hard decision. It is a heavy decision that needs to be thought out. I think we should not shame people who take it for reasons like

Risk to mother's life. Health risks... Rape Incest Child will be born with deformities, special care.

Then comes reasons like it fucks with your mind, having this responsibility thrust on you. 12 to 20 weeks or so we can accept reasons like,

2) Not ready for the emotional demands of child birth.

3) Can't financially support the kid.

4) Don't have the mental health to raise one more kid.

5) Father is not worthy to form a family with.

we can assume the parents know best. I think it is selfish when the reasons are "Will hamper career opportunities." but still, if they are kids and this not about promotion and is about completing your undergrad then... it makes sense.

Some people also say "financially support" when they actually mean "Can't afford the child the life they deserve." a live very few kids get to have.

Such reasons seem to be surface level reasons while they have some other reasons for why they don't want to have kids. The world going to the dogs, climate change, bringing life to this overpopulated chaotic world. I have heard many reasons.

Having kids can ground you, give your life meaning. We should encourage it and respect people who take up this responsibility voluntarily.

Forcing people to be parents seems patently stupid to me. So the solution is kill it before it becomes a kid. We don't have souls people. We are biological automatons!

Making it illegal just means more unsafe abortions. Almost 56% of abortions in India are under the category of unsafe and abortion is, after hemorrhage and sepsis a leading cause of maternal death.

Coming to gestational limits... some people seem to think babies look cute but are less than adult animals when it comes to self awareness, cognition, etc. Sure I agree logically they are like fish or chicken. But they have potential. They are babies and I don't want a society where people can kill the babies they make. We are not aliens, we are humans who have this irrational desire to save the life of babies. So we need some gestational limits.

Canada is wrong with its law. They recognize personhood too late. We need fetal rights codified. Once we have artificial wombs we need to regulate experiments on such babies. Brain death is death. Life begins with cognition, memory and sensory pain. Viability is a retarded standard and we should switch to one that makes sense. Not souls and not overdosing on personal freedom.

A child becomes a human being within the meaning of this Act when it has completely proceeded, in a living state, from the body of its mother

Shredddz · 2022-05-08T15:19:50+00:00

abortion is the right to kill so that you dont have to be responsible and accountable with sex. like how can someone want this when there are so many ways to prevent pregnancy? they have to be irresponsible and rather be that and kill than being responsible. this is terrifying tbh.

nfshncfhncxzss · 2022-05-08T15:11:52+00:00

[permanently deleted]

social_mule · 2022-05-08T14:30:50+00:00

I have neither a womb nor a vagina and I am pro-life. I support the SCOTUS decision on overturning Roe v Wade.

And that's all I have to say about that.

smallstarseeker · 2022-05-08T14:16:54+00:00

Our country has a vote on new abortion law in a couple of days.

My personal stance is "I don't care".

And I would appreciate if lefties and feminists would stop trying to involve men like me.

kaizenkin · 2022-05-08T08:43:36+00:00

If people don't want to want to define gender... How can you defend women's rights?

decoy88 · 2022-05-08T07:51:18+00:00

The perfect explanation of my stance on abortion, unsurprisingly comes from a comedian.

I think you should not get an abortion… unless you need one. In which case, you'd better get one. I mean, seriously. If you need an abortion, you'd better get one. Don't fuck around. And hurry. Not getting an abortion that you need is like not taking a shit. That's how bad that is. It's like not taking a shit. That's what I think. I think abortion is exactly like taking a shit. I think it is 100% the exact same thing as taking a shit. Or it isn't. It is, or it isn't.

[Abortion] is either taking a shit, or it's killing a baby. It's only 1 of those 2 things. It's no other things. If you didn't like hearing it's like taking a shit, you think it's killing a baby. That's the only other one you get to have. Which means you should be holding a sign in front of the place.

People hate abortion protesters. “They're so shrill and awful.” They think babies are being murdered! What are they supposed to be like? "Uh, that's not cool. I don't wanna be a dick about it, though. I don't want to ruin their day as they murder several babies all the time.”

I don't think it's killing a baby, I don't. I mean, it is, it's a little bit... It's a little bit killing a baby. It's a little bit... It's 100% killing a baby. It's totally killing a whole baby. But I think that women should be allowed to kill babies. That's what I think. They should be allowed to kill babies. Yeah. [impersonating] “Whoo! We get to kill babies! Let's do some shots and kill some babies!” “I killed like 4 babies last night. It was fucking retarded.”

It has to be one or the other. You know, like, when people say, “abortion should be legal, safe and rare“ Why rare if it should be legal? If it should be legal, it's... It's shitting. If it should be rare, it's murdering babies! But, again, women should be allowed because... 2 reasons I think women should be allowed to kill babies. Number 1, I don't think life is that important. It's just not. It is not. People get too excited about life. "Oh, life." Fuck you. It's not that... Make a list of every shitty thing ever… that's in life!

Habil13 · 2022-05-08T07:37:29+00:00

Abortion should be legal, but claiming that it isn’t killing is disingenuous💯

PM_ME_STRIPPERS · 2022-05-08T03:40:44+00:00

Honestly all of this debating is getting out of hand. Why dont we just let the lawmakers make their decision and calm the fuck down? Debating and yelling and screaming at each other isnt doing anything but making things worse.

I really dont have a dog in this fight, as its pointless to do so as a white male, but a statement i do stand by is this - "actions have consequences" and this goes towards both ends of the debate

Educational-Ad6210 · 2022-05-08T01:11:11+00:00

Pro-life men whine that women don’t take their shit seriously “just because they are men”, but honestly you dudes are a low hanging fruit for pro choicers like myself because you are crazy lefty virtue signaling crowd that appeals to emotions, but on the right. It’s very inexpensive for you to adopt a holier than thou attitude, because deep inside you know that if shit really goes south the most a woman can do is sue you, and even that is a. Expensive b. Doesn’t happen more often than it does. You are the white chick in Ivy League school who bitches about the patriarchy for social brownies. You are the blue haired landwhale that panders to minorities using a bunch of buzz words. You walk around trumpeting “babies right to live!1!!!” because you are not the one who actually has to sacrifice something for it; you constructed your argument on emotion alone and became the very thing you accuse feminists of. It’s so easy to be “moral” when you know you don’t have to pay the any price or bear consequences for your morality ammaright?

SeaSquirrel · 2022-05-07T15:42:22+00:00

Anti abortion people still don’t understand that they are the anti bodily autonomy side.

Which is funny considering the overlap they have with the anti vaxers.

Play_Muted · 2022-05-08T00:31:42+00:00

regardless of your point of view eventually most governments will ban abortion or make it harder to get.

population decline has become a serious issue. Japan loses 640k people every year and its going to accelerate from now on.

in past year over 65 population grew 7% meanwhile young children (below 14) population decreased by 6% and working age 15-65 decreased by 3%. They tried every other option, they gave tons of benefits to parents, tax cuts, free stuff etc. but nope, people dont procreate.

banning abortion itself wont fix the population decline problem but it will reduce the numbers. There isnt any non authoritarian way to fix this.

Ok-Draw6027 · 2022-05-07T21:06:18+00:00

why won't anyone think of the children?

if you believe that the woman has rights to autonomy and to life, surely that also extends to the unborn child too. to sacrifice the child would also nullify any rights towards the mother also. that is the basic premise of liberty.

also, if you don't consider the unborn child human yet, this raises ethical implications for other vulnerable groups in society. is it morally acceptable to euthanise the old, sick or disabled because you consider them less than human?

these icky moral questions are neglected and trivialised by womens rights groups who selfishly make the whole debate about them and women when in actuality it concerns nothing less than the foundation of our liberal democracy.

kaiden08 · 2022-05-07T19:53:59+00:00

Will this policy change encourage women to be more responsible when choosing sexual/romantic partners?

Honestly my morale instincts find abortion as birth control repugnant, but I find the whole debate just kind of dirty and undignified so I try to stay out of it, although I often find the pro abortion people especially ghoulish and dishonest.

Title	Abortion Mega-Thread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	27
Comments	974
Date	May 7, 2022 2:00 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ukdwl2/abortion_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/abortion-mega-thread.1209952 https://theredarchive.com/post/1209952

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