The reality of dating for men

There is a thread here on men's experience on Bumble. I want to make it clear – this is posted on the sub-reddit for Bumble itself!

The Online Experience

If anyone can find any positive comments whatsoever, I would be happy to look at them. But it is undeniable that the tone is overwhelmingly negative, to the point of virtual desperation. There is one paragraph here that sums it up:

That constant rejection - person after person after person - and the few times you match, and you find the other person just doesn’t put in any effort at all, because, well, the gender ratio and dynamics on these apps is awful, and so she’s got a huge pile of matches and messages to deal with.

That is the normal experience for men on dating apps. This post outlines the customary experience for women:

I'm sorry you and so many other guys go through this. Im a woman, and on pretty much all dating sites I’ve joined, I’d get dozens guys who liked/swiped right on me within a mere hour or two of me joining the sites. I remember when I first signed up to Bumble, I had 86 guys who were interested within an hour.

Marketisation of Dating

As soon as dating was marketised, this was inevitable due to the following factors:

• Women are biologically selective for several reasons, primarily that their reproductive material is rarer, and, therefore, more valuable than male reproductive material. They are therefore programmed to seek the highest value suitor.

• Men are biologically programmed to spread their seed and are, firstly, therefore far less discerning when it comes to attraction than females, and, secondly, significantly more driven to mate in the first place. This has been undeniably evidenced in numerous ways; it is even statistically noted that single women are happier than single men, and less likely to be actively seeking a partner. To put it in the simplest terms possible – men are plainly far more bothered about women than women will ever be about men. This reality is then magnified when women receive hundreds of messages in a short space of time; inevitably, these men become almost completely disposable to them.

• Humans still broadly follow the traditional dating patterns of men pursuing and women being pursued, so creators of apps must cultivate the impression for men that there are loads of available women on these apps. Perhaps slightly less important, but still significant, is to create the impression for female users that they are sought after and loads of men are pursuing them.

Value of Women vs Men

The consequence of this is a perfect storm in which the value of women in the market is so much, almost unquantifiably, greater than men. This then amplifies the reality that the less valuable party would already want the more valuable party to a greater extent anyway.

So the playing field is massively tilted against men on dating apps. Fine. Find women in the real world. Perfectly logical. This is obviously the better way to meet women anyway, right?

Problems Meeting Women in 'Real Life'

Here are the problems with that approach:

• Approaching randomly – This has always been a haphazard and largely fruitless approach, but many women now prefer meeting guys through apps because it feels that they have control over the interaction. I would argue that, to a great extent, women have been taught to view men as a threat, and therefore are far less likely than ever before to be receptive to being approached. You also don't know that women are single this way, or interested in meeting someone. Personally for me, literally every time I asked someone out in real life, they told me that they already had a boyfriend. I have no idea whether or not this was true. This approach really is a total crap shoot; you can easily approach hundreds of women and achieve absolutely nothing.

• Meeting through activities – You can go down this avenue without (a) meeting someone who is single, (b) meeting someone who is available, (c) meeting someone who is interested in you. If you join in with something, and all of these three issues apply, this then begs the question of whether you continue with the activity, or stop doing it and try something else. Again, it is often a big investment of time for little or no reward.

• Meeting through peer group / introduction – This is unquestionably the best way to meet someone, as someone the woman knows is immediately qualifying you. However, the problem here is that this simply might not happen. I have tried to encourage friends to introduce me to available women, but even though there have been times when I was struggling, no-one ever has. They always say that they will, but then they never do.

And then an overarching issue is that women still have the power in the market. So your value as a male is virtually inherently less than a female. You have to be an incredibly high-value male, and be compared to a particularly low-value female, before you have more options than her.

This is the intrinsic problem; women now know that they have tonnes of options. They know that there could be hundreds of guys pursuing them through apps (even though women often don't enjoy this experience). There is nothing flattering, or even unusual, about having a guy take an interest in you, unless there is a powerful and rather immediate attraction. So when you approach, attempt to chat someone up, engage in flirtation, ask for her number, etc, this always occurs in this climate, in which she has far more value than you, and many more options than you.

Conclusion

Recently, I slept with a couple of attractive women, and could easily have been with a third, but chose not do this. I actually received quite a few compliments about my looks from some significantly younger and attractive women. It felt nice. It was probably the first time in my life that I have truly accepted myself, and realised that I do have something.

In order to reach this point, I had to do the following (I must emphasise that before I invested in maximising my value as a man, the river of interest ran pretty dry!):

• I have done everything possible to improve my appearance, including: grooming, spending more money on clothes / changing my wardrobe, seeking the opinion of female friends, regular gym attendance, strict diet, dental surgery, minor cosmetic surgery.

• I have dated maybe 100 women. I'm not sure how many. I have interacted with thousands of women, and have sent messages to tens of thousands.

• I have practiced my social skills as much as possible, and have definitely become more confident in this area. I have been out on lots of dates, and so have steadily learned a little about charm, charisma, flirtation, etc. I have always been interesting to converse with, but I have a little more confidence now as well.

• I worked my ass off to be as successful as possible in my career. I have built a successful and independent freelancing business now, which has made me comfortable financially, allowed me to buy a house in the countryside, have money in the bank, and my actual profession even sounds quite impressive. It also gives me massive freedom, which is a huge advantage, because I can meet women at my convenience instead of fitting it around a job.

• Minor point, but I make a lot of sacrifices to look after my dog (which is pure joy, to be fair), and I honestly believe that this conveys to women that you're a certain sort of person. In fact, I would say to guys that are struggling - get a dog, take it out every day, and at the very least you will talk to more women.

• Needless to say, I have made a lot more effort with women than they have made with me, and I have spent more money on women than they are ever likely to spend on me.

Despite that, I could go on dating apps tomorrow and experience absolutely no interest whatsoever. In fact, this is the likely outcome. It would take hundreds, possibly thousands, of messages and swipes (although, I've never bothered with Tinder) to get anywhere, and even that could result in zero dates.

If I approach randomly, even those who are highly skilled and experienced will (eventually) concede that you have to approach hundreds of women to get one solid lead. I do think having a dog can reduce this.

I can join clubs and activity groups, hope there are some women there, hope that they haven't joined solely to pursue their interest (not an unreasonable thing to do!), and hope that they don't all say: “I've got a boyfriend, I've got a boyfriend, I've got a boyfriend”.

Or I can hope that my peer group and friends introduce me to someone, which has literally never happened once in the several decades that I've been on this planet.

That is the reality for guys. Everything that I've written here is undeniably true. And yet, years on from this sub-reddit being created, I still see people (largely female, I assume) trying to argue against it.

I really have no idea why.