~ archived since 2018 ~

How should women “take accountability”?

kmb218 · 2026-02-25T19:05:44+00:00

Red pillers love throwing around vague statements about how women should “take accountability”, but it is rarely explained what this actually means. I...

kmb218

February 25, 2026

68 upvotes

/r/PurplePillDebate

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Post Information

Title	How should women “take accountability”?
Author	kmb218
Upvotes	68
Comments	667
Date	February 25, 2026 7:05 PM UTC (5 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1remjf0/how_should_women_take_accountability/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-should-women-take-accountability.1574235 https://theredarchive.com/post/1574235

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At the end of the day, most of the red pill men here want to shave off women’s reason for not dating them.

First it’s:

“It’s my fault for dating bad men. Let me choose better.”

Then if those men still treat that woman badly it’s :

“The type of man I’m looking for doesn’t have to treat me well because he has options, let me choose better”

Then: “Let me date a different type of man.” (Usually someone not conventionally attractive.)

If this man also doesn’t work out, she takes accountability by going back to the first step, but now the looks/social class/ whatever else of the man has decreased. They want women to do this enough to where the ones that actually should not be dating are dating.

They want women to think it’s their standards and expectation keeping them from happiness. And that really all women would be perfectly happy with boyfriend that has limited social skills and isn’t pleasant to look at or be around. Only they don’t know it because they keep going toward men who don’t need to treat them well.

Which begs the question: if rich or attractive men don’t have to treat women well, and don’t treat women well, then are the average and below men only treating women well because they have to?

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[–]DietTyronePurple Pill Man (Red Leaning) 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

All my friends who are dating blame themselves for not being able to leave a guy

Not what he's talking about at all.

One part of this is that if they are repeatedly dating shitty dudes, they need to try to understand what traits they are attracted to that keeps bringing them back to toxic men and adjusting their vetting process. Obviously, if they're already in a toxic relationship and aware of this, they need to take accountability by leaving the relationship rather than just complaining about it. Things rarely magically get better on their own. We have to make choices to move towards those better outcomes.

Second, if they aren't attracting decent men into their sphere, they need to ask themselves why that is? What is it they need to improve to attract higher quality partners? Might even have to do with the local environment they're in. Maybe there's a lot of toxic people there or maybe they have some toxic traits themselves they need to fix. Plenty of things people can take action on in regards to this.

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when a woman says "all men are trash" doesn't literally mean all men. She's not talking about her father, brother, brother in law, coworkers or close friends. The problem is men taking that statement too literally, even if that's too fucking obvious.

No, they are reacting with a correct assessment that they are being attacked via women's preferred vehicle of aggression.

Women's primary means of aggression, particularly in intrasexual competition, is indirect, relational aggression designed to damage a target's social standing and reputation. This form of aggression is favored because it allows individuals to inflict harm while minimizing the risks of direct physical confrontation.

Key components of this strategy include:
Gossip and Rumor Spreading: The most common weapon, often used to exclude rivals from social groups or to damage their reputation. This often involves spreading negative or false information about a person's sexual behavior or social conduct.
Social Exclusion and Shunning: Deliberately isolating a rival from the group to reduce their social power.
Reputation Manipulation: Strategically sharing information to ruin a rival's credibility, often targeting aspects like attractiveness or reputation to gain an advantage in competition.
"Mean Girl" Behaviors: Subtler tactics like eye-rolling, backstabbing, or giving disingenuous advice to undermine others.

Research suggests that this behavior often peaks during adolescence and early adulthood, coinciding with heightened competition for mates, and is frequently used to combat perceived threats from other women.

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It's a I Don't Desire a Police and Surveillance State for Dating Issue

Uhhhh you know that's not necessary, right? Other demographics take steps to self-regulate.

Men who doxx and threaten should be dealt with by the law.

That's a great idea. As soon as we have a law enforcement system that's designed to hold ppl accountable, they'll get on that, I'm sure. In the meantime, we're just kinda living with it, like with SA, IPV, etc.

Secondary, stuff like that Tea app should have tighter security.

Doesn't really matter as long as warning other women is a punishable offense.

Debatable

Nope. There's no discernable difference between a decent guy and a lying guy.

But you don't have to drink the soda. People who say you do are stupid

Who do we speak to about the social supports and safety measures that will be necessary for women to opt out completely?

[–]growframe3 points 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]the_scar_when_you_go1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What demographic has self-regulated away all bad behaviour within it?

Utopia fallacy

Well, yeah. Unfortunately things aren't all perfect right now

It matters because it's significantly harder to punish women for it if the date is secure.

As gramps used to say, a locked door keeps an honest man honest. Add in that nothing is likely to happen to the dishonest man, and there's no reason to expect safety.

What supports and measures are necessary? Singledom is more normalized than ever and plenty of people live fulfilled lives without concerning themselves with dating.

Do you see how men behave now? The frustration with being temporarily single manifests in everything from insults to violence to sociopolitical punishment to suicidality. If it's no longer temporary, men will need a lot of support to adapt and stabilize. In the meantime, women will be at even higher risk. With as much of a legal free pass as men currently have, we can anticipate it becoming worse with higher numbers of cases, removing any deterrent effect there is.

Fortunately, I'm not in charge of setting up the infrastructure, but someone must be. Otherwise, it's suggesting that women jump out of the plane and MacGuyverize a parachute on the way down.

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People generally don’t know what they want. Stated vs revealed preferences are consistently very different in studies, for BOTH men and women.

For attractiveness, men's and (especially) women's stated preferences underestimated revealed preferences (i.e., they thought attractiveness was less important than it actually was).

For earning potential, men's stated preferences underestimated-and women's stated preferences overestimated-revealed preferences.

"A Worldwide Test of the Predictive Validity of Ideal Partner Preference-Matching" Eastwick Et Al. | Journal of Personality and Social Psychology | 2024

Women are ones that at the end of the day have more unreasonable beauty standards for their partners compared to men tho. Men constantly overvalue and then settle, women undervalue and then set higher standards for men that they want to date.

So no, while the idea of both genders having an equal problem when it comes to ideal preferences, men are the ones that end up with more reasonable criteria for their partners at the end of the day.

[–]kmb218Blue Pill Woman[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"A Worldwide Test of the Predictive Validity of Ideal Partner Preference-Matching" Eastwick Et Al. | Journal of Personality and Social Psychology | 2024

Yeah I know this study. And it shows both men and women underestimate impact of looks/attractiveness, but women more. Men also underestimate other aspects like job/money. This proves my point - stated and revealed preferences differ.

Women are ones that at the end of the day have more unreasonable beauty standards for their partners compared to men tho. Men constantly overvalue and then settle, women undervalue and then set higher standards for men that they want to date.

Okay this is unrelated to what I said previously. But sure let’s go with it. Do you have any evidence of this? And don’t men hate when women settle? “Alpha fucks beta bucks”, “She has to be viscerally attracted to me at first sight otherwise I don’t want her”

So no, while the idea of both genders having an equal problem when it comes to ideal preferences, men are the ones that end up with more reasonable criteria for their partners at the end of the day.

Okay? Should women date men they don’t want to? Why can’t a woman just stay single if she wants to? Is every woman obligated to date someone?

[–]The-Devilz-AdvocateRed Pill Chaos Enthusiast / Man 3 points4 points5 points 5 months ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you have any evidence of this? And don’t men hate when women settle?

The study in question literally spells it out for you. What other evidence, do you need?

Women have higher physical/beauty standards for men they end up with, than what they state they want for their ideal partners. So literally it spells out "Alpha fucks" like huh?

Okay? Should women date men they don’t want to? Why can’t a woman just stay single if she wants to? Is every woman obligated to date someone?

Where did this idea come from? Please point in my response, or the comment you RESPONDED TO ABOVE that states, that women SHOULDN'T have the choice to opt out of dating if they so chose to?

Fucking railroad of the century here i suppose. Is that your defacto rebuttal when you can't put forth an argument, if all else fails then ask them if they want women to be all forced into dating? Like where did that come from? lmao.

If a woman only wants to date attractive men, that's her prerogative, nobody is stopping her. But either she needs to set actual behavioral standards for those men, so that the ones that she ends up with don't treat her like shit, or stop complaining about them, because the only constant in that equation is her.

[–]kmb218Blue Pill Woman[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The study in question literally spells it out for you. What other evidence, do you need?

The study doesn’t say women have more unreasonable beauty standards than men. It says that there are no gender differences in how people weigh attractiveness in dating. And it says that both genders underestimate (states preferences) how much they care about looks/attraction (revealed preferences). It says that women underestimate the importance of attractiveness more than men. None of this implies women have more unrealistic beauty standards toward men in dating.

Fucking railroad of the century here i suppose. Is that your defacto rebuttal when you can't put forth an argument, if all else fails then ask them if they want women to be all forced into dating? Like where did that come from? lmao.

Glad you had a laugh. You framed women having “unreasonable” preferences as a problem which is why I assumed you would want women to change their behavior.

But either she needs to set actual behavioral standards for those men, so that the ones that she ends up with don't treat her like shit, or stop complaining about them, because the only constant in that equation is her.

I hope this applies to men too with their constant complaining about how women act in dating. They should just stay single or set behavioral standards.

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Is this that famous "adult day care", where today we gonna learn an adult concept like "accountability"? Ok children, taking accountability means accepting that things are in part (or in a whole) your fault/merit and taking responsibilities for your own actions.

It's not ice cream fault, that they are yummy, it is your fault for buying them and putting them in your mouth and then eventually getting fat.

No, that bad boy didn't manipulate you into sleeping with him, you already wanted to do so and just got (easly) convinced.

Getting pregnant, if you did not want to, is also your fault.

Being a single mother... Do you know that you need two people for this affair? If it did not work out, it's partially also your fault.

Do you need extra examples, like in professional settings? Or we're fine? I hope we're fine, because things like contractual penalties for screwing up badly enough sounds scary and blaiming patriarchy won't work this time.

[–]kmb218Blue Pill Woman[S] 5 points6 points7 points 5 months ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]DzejSiDiredpilled man 15 points16 points17 points 5 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Do you think men who manipulate do not exist?

There are many things that try to manipulate you, inlcuding even ads on the internet/TV. Yes, you cannot see through everything always, but you CANNOT pretend to be a gullible child, you need to take accountability and try to be better, especially when other people warned you.

Same goes to men, e.g. what would you tell to simps sending money to e-thot and then raging after figuring out she already has a boyfriend? "Not your fault sweety, she just manipulated you"?

So there is no possible scenario where one person in a relationship is the cause of it’s failure?

Yes, because you're not having sex with a black box (cannot peek inside at all) with just a name on it. First of all, I don't believe in legendary-tier chameleons that would fool anyone. Ask the internet "how you vet your potential boyfriend" or something like that. And secondly: take accountability, for example, why did he cheat? Because he's so mean and evil and in no way his woman incentivised him to do so?

There is a possibility that he cheated without any misdeed from woman's side, but this is rarely the case.

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but ultimately the fault always lies in the cheater.

Yes. But do you know you can influence/minimize your chances of being cheated? That's what I am writting about.

If one partner is giving the other "incentives to cheat" then that's the point where the other partner should either speak up about the issues or simply break up

Why do you not understand that, for example, having an affair is a fraction of costs of divorce, fighting over your belongings and over children? That's the easiest example when it is purely easier and more beneficial to just cheat.

My partner made me cheat" is quite literally a perfect example of someone not taking accountability.

Also yes.

I cannot understand your logic here at all.

Are you one of those people that would go to a shady district during a night, because even if they get mugget it won't be their fault?

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Accountability usually intersects with perceived "responsibilities" in the relationship, a lack of effort, or the truth.

Women are largely conditioned in today's society & culture to believe men are responsible for 99% of a relationship going well or bad and try to remove their agency and responsibility from the relationship and victimize themselves. This is strongly reinforced through media, social media, women themselves. It's like a force field to prevent them from ever being wrong about something. It's always the man's fault. Period. Men broadly already know this but look at any relationship topic on reddit and start flipping genders you'll notice the trends in the feedback immediately.

If intimacy isn't going well, it's the man's fault even though women constitute 50% of the relationship.

If you lie to man (especially regarding relationship or sexual history, desires, preference) / Accountability

If you stop making effort to be sexually intimate or satisfying / Accountability

If you can't admit or don't like to admit your faults when you are wrong about something / Accountability

If you "accept Accountability" but then can't make any efforts to make right on your wrongs / Accountability

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Yes a man should take accountability for his mistakes, the same as a woman. I think that’s pretty reasonable.

How do you take accountability for lying? I feel like if you’re honestly asking that then you really need the information that you do it by saying “Hey, I lied about this. Because it was easier/safer/more convenient than telling the truth, (or I’m not happy with the fact that it’s the truth so I’m lying to myself too).” And then you say sorry and try to do it less. Also in case it’s not clear, that’s gender neutral.

What I think they meant by :

If you lie to man (especially regarding relationship or sexual history, desires, preference) / Accountability

Is that you’re not holding yourself accountable to your own actions because you’re lying. You are acting like you are (not better or worse) different to how you actually are. Saying one thing and doing another.

Also it’s totally possible for one party to be unilaterally causing problems but if the answer to ANY intimacy problem is blaming it on the man for a myriad of reasons, then we’re on the wrong track. No one is saying EVERY time it’s perfectly equal responsibility for the issues, but it’s also obviously not the man’s responsibility every time, which it seems to be.

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Or she will gaslight him into thinking he's wrong and then fight him when tries to advocate for himself:

-First comes normalization; Other couples aren't having sex like this.

-Everything is about sex with you, sex obsessed pervert.

Worse she will treat sex transactionally and weaponize it. Men are often blamed for this but in my experience it's women who treat sex transactionally. Men treat sex as a mutual duty/responsibility we have to the relationship which is a contributing factor to the slow libido death women experience, women don't want to feel obligated to keep you sexually satisfied even though that's what they signed up for in a monogamous LTR or marriage.

Men have zero issues with the idea of keeping someone sexually satisfied, working for it. Women hardly ever have to "work" for sex (it comss to them) so the entire power dynamic shift and idea is completely foreign to them. They are used to men chasing them, intiating, wooing them endlessly. At a certain juncture men just want to feel equally desired and they notice the lob sided efforts (or lack of) being made.

Whereas women treat sex as a reward system to reinforce good behavior or discourage behavior they do not like. Men are well versed in rejection and generally okay with hearing "no" for sex once in awhile but can you imagine telling your wife or spouse that you didn't want to hang out with her or spend time with her after she told you specifically she really wanted to hang out with you that night and spend quality time together? Can you imagine the shit storm a man would create if he was emotionally unavailable like that and said "not tonight babe, just not in the mood to listen to you squak again about your life for 6 hours on end".

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Who are "these guys". Religious people have their view (although I believe religion is actually retarded in the literal meaning of the word) and they are fully able and justified to have those views. However I dare you to walk around on a nice Saturday and just ask 100 men at the mall "should all women be virgins in their 20s and 30s." You are being warped by the internet and honestly need to stop once you read this, close your eyes, and ask yourself, why do generalizations on platforms literally monetized by clicks have this effect on my ACTUAL understanding of the world.

Average men DO NOT want a woman who they wish to be monogamous with to tell them they sucked 20 different dicks. I will NEVER understand why there are women who either act like they dont know or truely do not know why this would make sense.

Look at the COUNTLESS studies that show women who were in fact virgins until marriage have way better outcomes on average when it comes to marriage and motherhood. I personally do not care, AND I DO NOT KNOW ANYONE personally who cares about a woman's fucking virginity. H O W E V E R almost every man i know well, would rather have the opportunity to marry a woman who has had less sex that one who literally says the actual words "I had my hoe phase"

PLEASE tell me you do not truly see that makes sense.

Back to the objective numbers: Again many more studies backup that highly "promiscuous" (a literal biology term not derogatory at all) women are WAAAAAY more likely to have serious issues as they get older. PLEASE explain to me how a 60 year old woman would look back on life and say "I benefited profoundly from that time I took ecstacy and let 3 guys cum in my mouth". I am being dead serious, how?

And let us not even go to "oh yea but this or but that or but I"

We are strictly talking about the MOST likely proven outcomes, not that one time a girl got recorded in a gangbang and then married the king of fucking Timbuctoo. I have no problem with a woman DOING WHATEVER THE FUCK SHE WANTS. But she needs NEEDS needs to take ACCOUNTABILITY for those actions. If she can do what she wants, so can EVERYONE ELSE, and yes, that mean MEN. If a woman wants to sell her butthole on OnlyFans for 3 dollars and then never has the family and white picket fence in 15 years, SHE SHOULD NOT RAGE ON THE INTERNET ABOUT HOW MEN AND THEIR DURRR MUH SOGGY KNEES

[–]LabiaLickenstan7101 point 2 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What??? Accountability is taking responsibility for one's actions. Accountability is an obligation to accept consequences and own one's mistakes and also rewards. It is a neutral word in its own context. Accountability itself has nothing to do with recompense of due justice. You can not escape accountability just because you got married, that literally does not makes sense. Do we live in a world where someone can get punished but the loophole is getting married frees you from due justice lol?

And please, since this is the internet and I HIGHLY doubt people say that about your husband in person, can you show me how or where your husband is "usually" called "a simp". I apologize in advance but this sounds supremely hyperbolic as if it just helps garner support for the stance you are taking.

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[–]LabiaLickenstan7101 point 2 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

wtf are you talking about can you even read??? I literally said it has nothing to do with punishment wtf is wrong with you??? Manosphere?? I dont even know what the fuck you are talking about, this whole thread you have been speaking gibberish. I straight brought up the idea of punishment makes no sense and what kind of world would anyone say getting married is escaping punishment I am seriously baffled by your strict refusal to see there are people in this very threat telling you that accountability is admitting one's mistakes and taking the consequences as they are. Not one time did i say it means getting punished as i explicitly wrote that accountability is a neutral word. Punishment inherently has a negative implication. You are the oe bringing up your past and your marriage and telling us people call your husband is a simp like if anything you are spreading this gender division propaganda yourself.

I swear I am like totally bewildered at your ability to completely respond to one thing in the opposite direction. WHERE DID I SAY YOU SHOULD BE PUNISHED???? You are a grown adult the only one who had to accept what you do in life IS YOU just like every other adult in the entire world. You are married? SO WHAT?

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[–]LabiaLickenstan7101 point 2 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

WHERE THE FUCK DID I SAY THAT

I literally said exactly what you said. No one is forcing women to be with assholes. I took you exact words "nobody is forcing them" but because I applied it to women, you said I am blaming them? Show me my exact words that said "women are to blame for bad men?" The only person to blame for a shitty person IS THE SHITTY PERSON lmfao, are you new here? This is Earth hello alien, welcome. Here, when you are after a certain age, if you do something, good or bad, it mean, you did it. Everyone knows this, but some pretend like they don't. We call those people retarded.

You are actually a complete moron lmfao

This whole thread clearly explains to you IN BABY TALK that EVERY ADULT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS

You: Oh so someone else's fault is women's huh?

Do you have an extra chromosome lol?

Shit men ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE

[–]Downtown_Cat_17451 point 2 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LabiaLickenstan7101 point 2 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But who asked you about your husband. Who asked you about you? Why does you feel so compelled to repeatedly talk about yourself when the conversation is specifically about the type of women who do constantly blame men for their own actions. If the shoe does not fit then why do you keep trying it on over and over? This is not about you, but hey, all women share some sort of qualities I guess and since you are so adamant that you are accountable, I guess the quality you share is making with a lot of women is making shit that is not about you, all about you. Like half of what you are saying is borderline incomprehensible. WTF if oofy doofy and betabux, what are you 14? Dead serious no idea what you are babbling about but I for sure am not looking to find out.

This post is a class bullshit bait post. There are SO MANY EXAMPLES in this fucking thread but everyone is gunna keep pretending like "men dont give any examples they just say vague blah blah blah". I gave you literal examples and you are trying to invalidate my experiences by gaslighting and obfuscating. I have seen SO MANY GROWN WOMEN refuse to be accountable for their actions. Women who smoke while pregnant "well my mom did it and I turned out fine so my baby with be ok" women who cheat and blame their husband or boyfriend for "pushing me into the arms of another man". Look at the dumb fucking bitch from door dash who dared compare herself to actual survirors of sexual assault. A woman raped me and no one gave a fuck but when a woman cries once her boyfriend finds out she sucked some dudes dick, she decides she regret is and now that poor guy she met at the club is going to get his life ruined. I had a conversation while three other men today, one was my age (33) one was in his forties and the other is 63 years old. ALL FOUR OF US agree that every single man we know personally well has been struck by a woman. The stats are not eve 10% as close you think they are but you won't ever accept that. I promise you that almost ever grown man on that you have ever talked to has been struck by a woman, but you won't ever hear it because we already know, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK. Men go to fucking prison for defending themselves from their wives.

This is exactly why i married outside of America and guess what? She is the ONLY woman I have ever been with who has not put her hands on me. She thinks most of you are fucking lunatics too. Peace out and good luck with your divorce in 10 years.

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But then she actually should say all men who have options are like that. And all men who don't have options want to be like that. It's actually funny how men themselves portray men like that, but then are angry when women just call it as is.

When you call out the end conclusions of their logic like this, they just sputter about "misandry" and run away. But they'll never stop reinforcing it

I even made a post about it, which resulted in a lot of "not all attractive men" but merely being a matter of "likelihoods." Which in the end comes back to the same conclusion about male nature - no inherent sense of decency or desire to respect women and treat us well, merely doing so if they don't have the "option" to get a new partner. They frequently present their own behavior towards others purely as a matter of "incentives" and "rewards" rather than any kind of internal moral compass, and still have the nerve to balk at their psychopathy being called the spade it is

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[–]MoonriseOverEarthNo Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

brava.

I believe in accountability and I took it seriously after my first marriage was a disaster. I went to counseling etc. etc. It is not something that gets hashed out online.

But way too many guys here use accountability here as a way to deflect away from male responsibility. They take a good thing - we can only ever control our own actions - and turn it into a cudgel to beat the woman and forever excuse the man.

Chads are dogs because women let them be. Chads cheat because they can. If a man runs out, the woman should be accountable for having a kid with a loser. It's a way for men to shirk any accountability online and forever blame the woman, just like Adam did to Eve. Men can never expect to uphold standards, to act the right way. They are perpetual toddlers who stuff themselves until they puke because mommy didn't take the cake away.

What they want to hear is this: "I'm sorry, I'm gorgeous and a 10/10 but I should have dated you a fat 5/10 because you would have treasured me and treated me so well. I am a shallow fool for passing up on you." They want Cersei walking naked so they can pelt her with rotten fruit and scream shame.

It's childish revenge fantasies from immature men* who are miserable with their lives.

* women do this too. I did. I was the female version of a nice girl who felt very angry and jealous that I was overlooked. How unfair is it that men are so shallow!?! But you have to move past it. You have to get right in the world and carve out your own happiness.

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I'd say that's a flawed analogy.

It's more like going into the store for a soda. Big shelf of cans, all different, but same basic idea. They're all designed to look good in their own way. So you pick one with a cool label, and it tastes like clam chowder. It's whatever, you can't tell what it tastes like until you're actually in there. Anyone could make that mistake. There's another that also has a cool label, kinda similar, but it says, "new and improved." So you give it a shot. Basically carbonated Old Spice. How about one that looks kinda bad, since the labels seem to be deceptive? Nope, that one has a laxative in it. You see it in the fine print, but not until it's too late. Ok, back from the restroom. One more time. Label looks professional, ingredients look fine, smells like a normal cola. You can finally relax... and there's a mouse at the bottom.

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Because most men are not cheaters and abusers.

Most sodas are fine. You just don't get to reliably avoid the bad ones, bc the labels are not trustworthy. You could be holding a good one in one hand, and a bad one in the other, and not be able to tell the difference at all. Even cracking them open isn't necessarily gonna tell you.

That's the point.

Most bad guys look and act exactly like all of the other guys, bc they aren't idiots. They have plausible explanations for every questionable thing, just like a normal guy who's awkward or has weird luck. "I made some mistakes, and I've changed," is identical from a man who's lying and a man who's being honest.

So, yeah, not at all like a scenario in which all of the relevant information is available, verifiable and accurate, so that a person can make an educated decision with certainty of the outcome.

(Being a good man takes more than not cheating and beating, btw. "Bad guys" is a much larger proportion that we'd like to believe.)

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[–]The-Devilz-Advocate1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Obv not every single soda is bad. You just don't get to accurately predict whether a given soda is good or bad.

Nobody is saying, hey there won't ever BE bad apples or sodas.

What redpillers are stating, is that if all you end up with ARE bad apples or sodas. That's not a problem with all sodas and apples, that's a problem with you not doing the bare minimum to TRY to separate the bad apples and sodas from the good ones. There are tells that you can make to discern MOST of the bad products by looking at their labels. Does it guarantee you won't get a defective product? Of course not, but it does FILTER OUT a MAJORITY OF BAD PRODUCT.

The same can be said about men. Men are horrible liars, most of them are not master manipulators that wake up in the morning and state: "You know what? That girl that is into me, I'll treat her like shit today, then send pics of her crying to the world wide only-male group chat so they can laugh at her. BUAHAAHAH."

[–]the_scar_when_you_go1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

not doing the bare minimum

So, reading the label, reading the ingredients, and choosing one that looks like it might taste good isn't the bare minimum? You did do that.

Men are horrible liars

No, they aren't. Men are better at lying than women are, and better at detecting lies than women are, even tho women are more consciously suspicious. Men are also more likely to lie in general situations, bc they're more likely to assume that it won't be a big deal in the end. (some interesting research in that area)

Excluding based on initial red flags - whether the print lines up, the "new and improved formula" labels, any kind of vagueness or science-speak in the ingredients list - will inevitably exclude most sodas... and will still not reliably eliminate more bad than good. Men who are socially awkward, nervous, private, trying to look confident but missing the mark, victims of the rumor mill, genuinely changing after making mistakes, etc, go in the same bucket as men who are sketchy, aggressive, controlling, players, etc. They look too similar.

Is that what women should be doing?

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It seems so. It's kinda a Kafka trap for them to get us women in. Like no matter what he

If he's cute he's a player. He's going to cheat. Not take you seriously have a million and one options. Waste your time! And pump and dump ALL AT ONCE. (Because drama and it's funny to over exaggerate)

If you settle on looks but he's still an asshole? Then I should have vetted better and it's retribution for making him "beta bucks". You should have known better. Again nothing to do with HIS character. Dead bedroom. Somehow the man has it worse.

If you are attractive and meet your own standards? And want that for someone else. You are demanding so much and no man would want to settle for you the ever so repeated "What do YOU bring to the table" That man you like because you find him cute and pleasant to be around can have any woman better than you. Though you are asking for what you yourself meet? Yeah you really can't win with Red Pill.

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[–]LabiaLickenstan7101 point 2 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Are you like this on purpose??? Do you think he meant she literally needs to be surprised ??

Is is such an insanely common FIGURE OF SPEECH to say "don't be surprised when" Please tell me you do not actually think he meant she should be literally surprised??

If a women was super promiscuous when she was young then wants to magically settle down in her 30s, she needs to be ready if men are unwilling to settle down with her due to her past. If she turns around and puts any of that one "men" then she is avoiding accountability. Women make it VERY CLEAR that they know men do not GENERALLY want a women with a crazy past with sex. So therefore, DOING EXACTLY the things that you KNOW many men will not want to put up with later in life, and then turning around and blaming "men" for being misogynist once you are older and alone is FUCKING LUNACY. If you touch fire, is it the fire's fault for burning you, or did YOU burn yourself.

SUREEE women can be promiscuous and then have a happy life and get married or be happy and single and never want to marry. ANYTHING CAN AND HAS HAPPENED.

There is what can happen, and then there is what we are actually talking about.

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[–]LabiaLickenstan7101 point 2 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I am purposefully changing the way I type strictly to better communicate since you are getting the impression I am invested emotionally rather than me just being adhd and animated,

Regardless, I would like you to notice what you said yourself.

"it seems" "the impression"

That is a whole separate issue right there and i wont lie, women do not do shit like this where I live. It is a cultural issua and i dont know why. Instead of making up emotions for me, just ask, Instead of assuming you got an idea based on what you feel, just ask.

I am a man. I was in the military before I left the US. I know men. A large amount of us talk abou these very issues. In these tupes of discussion,Im sorry, but your feelings are not important to us because we are trying to talk about solid shit. If you "feel like" then we are already at an impasse. Anything you say after "well i feel like" its already gunna be off because I am not concerned with how people perceive a rock that is purple, i am here to say it is purple, and it is a rock. The moment we start to talk about "well i feel like the rock is not supposed to be that color" I am gunna be like "wtf are we even talking about"

It sounds cold, but it is because to men, REASON IS COLD you see what I mean?

Too many women, again, take this and "feel like" that makes men emotionally immature when it is literally the opposite. to speak about hard shit without emotion takes GREAT restraint and is heavily influenced by emotional regulation.

Everyone has emotions and it is not a talent to let them flood every aspect of daily life. That is literally what we teach children, is it not? I beg of you to stop feeling next time you come to a place like this, and just see what men say, dont look at the feelings like that. Maybe you might find that even if u disagree, you wont end up with the conclusion that you are better than we are and that we are bad. My wife would tell you that I am capable of a great deal of emotion, but she is Japanese and she agrees with me that she finds it strange how overly emotional American women and many other nations of women are. It is not about women inherently, but it is something.

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[–]LabiaLickenstan7101 point 2 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you: most people do not have a crazy past with

me: was literally talking about an example using a ONE nonexistence woman to represent the point that you ALSO purposefully misrepresented in reply to the other person. He used a universally understood figure of speech and you go "dur she is supposed to be surprised", yea sure, just like we threw her a big birthday party lmfao

Then I explained how if a SINGULAR WOMAN were to be promiscuous when she was younger (WHICH IS HER RIGHT AS AN ADULT) she has to accept that SHE MADE A CHOICE and if later she can;t settle down because of that past (IF as in MAYBE because this is HYPOTHETICAL) then that is her fault as it was HER CHOICE)

Why the fuck are you telling me "most people do not" anything? Who the fuck said most people do??? I sure as fuck didnt lololol jesus christ

[–]kmb2181 point 2 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]LabiaLickenstan7101 point 2 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And the studies do not indicate that they are sexless in the first place, studies claim that they are having less sex with different partners. Those studies also have ZERO WAY OF CONFIRMING THE TRUTH. Anyone can report ANYTHING. Studies based on actual evidence are not the same as fucking polls used in studies. Polls do not indicate actual life events. People fucking lie about their sex lives CONSTANTLY and if you can not admit that then you are being obstinate out of pettiness.

IT IS STILL NEITHER HERE NOR THERE because the entire point was I replied TO YOU about YOU TALKING ABOUT ONE WOMAN WHO IS PROMISCUOUS

YOU were the one who was talking about one singular woman "supposed to act surprised" which btw, dumbest shit I ever read, but I digress.

How am I the one talking about a rare edge case when I replied TO YOU rofl it was your conversation to begin with

You asked the guy about an example and he gave to a literal one that WE HAVE LITERALLY SEEN so you intentionally took what he said and made it fucking stupid as shit by saying "so it is accountability is she is surprised" when it is beyond clear that he did not use the word in a literal fashion. Over and over when a point is made YOU DO THINGS THAT PROVE THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD LMFAO

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[–]LabiaLickenstan7101 point 2 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

WTF are you talking about? The shit people are talking about is when men are being generalized and stereotyped and blamed for the actions of SOME women.

Men do this shit too. But we are talking about the shit that men generally would accept as their issue while many women would shift blame and play the victim. A great example is obesity.

I have NEVER met or known a fat as fuck man blame anything or anyone for being a fat fuck. There are millions of women who tried to claim that being morbidly obese CAN BE HEALTHY.

There IS ZERO Z E R O ZERO reason why a normally functioning adult is obese. It is like legit PHYSICALLY, as is the field of science physically impossible to become fat unless someone INGESTED TO MANY CALORIES. You CAN NOT PUT ON FAT UNLESS YOU CONSUME EXTRA CALORIES. There is objectively NO MEDICAL NOTHING NADA that makes you put on more fat.

Calories in or calories not in.

H O W E V E R millions of women will fucking lose their minds because "i HavE a cONdItIoN" . There literally people who will lie your face and say cooking for yourself is too time consuming, expensive, hard, takes to much time....when it is all untrue. If men are fat, they will tell you it is their fault. If women are fat, they will blame something.

Like I even have to clarify... NOT EVERYONE NOT ALL but for sure THERE ARE SO MANY

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Oh this is simple!

It's basically because you want to date someone you find attractive. And by the nature of YOU finding him attractive dozens of other women must find this guy attractive. So if he ends up being an asshole? It must be because you like assholes and attractive man bad! Ugly man good. . It must be because you went out of your league? It must be because you didn't give the ugly guy a chance who didn't have options? So now because you know having pesky standards and wanting a semblance of physical attraction/emotional attraction to someone you are chasing chads and deserve poor treatment.

It couldn't be because the guy was an asshole/flakey/non-committal/cheater because that guy has a character flaw. No certainly not. They tend to turn a blind eye on holding men with bad behavior accountable because "you should have picked better" That guy just has options! He's being a guy. Boys will be boys. Nothing to do with his bad behavior.

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I think this debate gets derailed because “accountability” gets interpreted in the most extreme way possible.

When red pill guys say “women should take accountability,” what they usually means is If you consistently pick a certain type of guy own that pattern.If you reject certain men own that preference.If your standards filter out 80% of men accept that tradeoff. That’s it.

It doesn’t mean sleep with men you don’t want. It doesn’t mean accept abuse. It doesn’t mean lose rights.

It means if I choose X I accept the consequences of choosing X. And that applies to men too.

When blue pill hears “accountability,” they often interpret it as “You want women punished for their choices.”

When red pill says it, they usually mean: “Stop blaming society for outcomes created by your own filters.”

Those aren’t the same claim.At the end of the day everyone filters. Everyone narrows their own pool. Everyone makes tradeoffs. No one is entitled to specific outcomes.Accountability just means being honest about your own role in the results you’re getting.

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If I got upset at McDonald’s for getting me fat, that is not me taking accountability. I should’ve gone somewhere healthier, or better yet, get some groceries and buy healthier and cheaper ingredients to make a better meal.

To put this into the context of relationships: If a man complains that for the past several relationships that his girlfriends have been cheating on him, wouldn’t you look at him weirdly? Is it because he is dating bad women? Could be. Are all women to blame? Hell no.
Maybe he isn’t being honest with himself, or more importantly, to the people he vents to. Maybe the reason they’ve all cheated was because he’s an abusive asshat.

A real example: I was cheated on. We’re still together to this day, and the incident in question was years ago. In all honesty, it was mostly her fault, but that doesn’t mean I’m free of any kind of blame. There were things I could’ve done, such as make bigger efforts to find more things in common, or activities to do. We’re far better and stronger now (and yes, I know it sounds like I’m coping, but if you knew the details of my relationship more, you wouldn’t say that).

Granted, each situation requires nuance, but it seems that a some men and women recently just refuse to take accountability for any of their actions. I think one of the reasons you see more men complain about accountability than women is the “Women are Wonderful” effect where people think that women can do no wrong or aren’t capable of negative actions.

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If you’re a woman who hookups with a dozen plus guys in your 20’s and now want to settle down in your 30’s but no guy wants to be with you because of you sleeping around. Instead of blaming those men for not wanting to be with you, take a good look at the mirror and figure out what actions/decisions you did that resulted in that. Don’t be mad at those men for not wanting to be with a woman who took advantage of her sexual freedom.

If you’re a woman who constantly dates/be with good looking but very abusive guys that harm you in anyway. Instead of blaming all men for being that way, take a good look in the mirror and figure out why you keep getting attracted to those horrible men and what must be done to prevent from happening it again. Don’t assume every man is the same way like those abusive men you been with.

Finally if you’re a woman who believes women have never been the reason as to why the red pill and manosphere was created and became popular. I urge you to self reflect as to why those men started believing in the red pill and manosphere.

These examples I provided are ways a woman can hold herself accountable with the actions and decisions she’s made with her life.

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Taking accountability means earnestly stating the reasons for something happening, and if those reasons are a result of your actions, saying so instead of trying to weave some story around why it wasn't your fault, and blaming things externally.
Ideally for everything in your life to a certain extent. I think both men and women should do this, and it's a healthy way for yourself and the community to heal and grow.
I guess I would have to give a specific, RP example here, so I'll take the common one of women choosing to date an abusive, violent man.

The way women don't take accountability is blaming everything under the sun, including all normal non abusive men of being abusive, rather than her emotions. The guy was attractive, she felt horny and all the red flags went out the window for her. OWN IT. I'm not even saying you need to date that shy, responsible guy with average looks who will love and worship the ground you wall on (but doesn't get your pussy to tingle)

But at least take accountability and ADMIT it was you being horny that made you choose an asshole that blind freddy with a walking stick could see from miles away was one.

Doubt it will happen tho, and brace for "But he was manipulating me with love bombing" and "He totally came across as respectable at the start" replies.

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"Taking accountability" means being accountable for your own actions. Actions have consequences. Own them instead of blaming someone else for unwanted outcomes.
When you do choices about your education, your lifestyle, your job, or how and with whom you spend your time, these choice have consequences. Don't cry about the gender pay gap when you chose to be a teacher. Also be aware of how women in general behave and how this might have negative consequences. e.g. when you bitch about that mum that is again the last one picking up her kid from Kindergarden. Then it isn't the Patriarchy causing mental load, it is you.
Don't cry about Gender Pay Gap. Work more. (In Germany women on average work 32 hours a week compared to 38 hours for men). Strive for raises. Strive for better jobs. Found more companies. When having the choice between more money and more confortable life, choose money at least sometimes.

Don't cry about care work when you yourself insist on helicoptering your single child 60 hours a week. That is a choice. Ask yourself whether you and your female friends make this a duty, clubbing non-conformers with the "bad mum" cudgel.

Don't cry about household work when single women living alone spend five hours per week more with household work than men do. That is a choice, not a duty.

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Being a single-mother with three kids, from three different men.

Hitting a man, and then being surprised or offended when the man hits you back.

Racking up lots of debt from college and supporting the lifestyle that you think you deserve, only to find a guy who will marry you, so now that debt also becomes his problem.

Breaking up with good men because of "Instagram standards", and then regretting it.

Yelling about the wage gap, and not being willing to listen to a man explain to you how that does not exist.

Acting just out of spite, and then denying the consequences. Yes, evil men do this, but so does the average woman, it seems.

Telling men to not approach you, and then being upset that men don't approach you.

Insisting that women have excellent communication skills - better than men - and then answering questions with "fine", or giving the silent treatment, and then being upset that those don't work the way you expected them to.

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Like, right now. You are being repeatedly combative, and taking no responsibility or accountability, and debating about what "taking accountability" means in your own thread about accountability.

I hate to break it to you, but this is a debate subreddit…

Okay, let's flip the script. What are some ways you feel are appropriate ways to take accountability for the above common situations.

Taking accountability to me means acknowledging something is your fault without blaming others.

Some of the examples I don’t see how accountability can apply there. For example if you have debt from college and someone chooses to marry you knowing that, I don’t see why you should take accountability for them marrying you. Accountability is something you take for your own actions, not someone elses. Also taking accountability for disagreeing with someone on the wage gap doesn’t make much sense. By that logic the other person should take accountability as well for disagreeing with her or what? I don’t think people blame others for their own opinions so it’s just generally not something to take accountability for.

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Oh, that I agree with you wholeheartedly on. I watch a lot of relationship content. It is usually in the form of a woman's TikTok, or a man critiquing that woman's TikTok. That is what the available content seems to be.

Anyway, I disagree with that so much, and I see it so often, that that specific thing makes me angry. And, these are with content creators who I watch almost every day. I will always disagree with them on that topic.

The most that I've seen them blame a man is if he takes responsibility for a child that is not his, or he doesn't get a prenuptual agreement.

But then I see women demanding a man who is taller than six feet, but who gets upset when a man says that he doesn't want an obese woman.

Or a woman who posts pictures of herself on Instagram, but then gets angry when her guy is liking other women's Instagrams.

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