CMV, women have a low tolerance for male vulnerability which perpetuates men not expressing their thoughts and feelings

IlIIlIIIlIl · 2024-01-05T10:01:22+00:00

You can literally see this simply by looking at how men’s insecurity vs women’s insecurity is handled. Men’s insecurity isn’t tolerated and is always responded with “whiny”, “fragile ego”, “entitled”, “loser/victim mentality” “defeatist mentality” despite knowing that no one can be happy all the fucking time. Yet with women it’s “oh no you poor thing, I hope things get better for you”

It’s entirely different and probably has to do with how men used to be seen as stoic, emotionless beings. Shows how women also perpetuate toxic masculinity

Kentaro009 · 2024-01-04T21:13:06+00:00

Women want boiled ice. They want you to be emotionally vulnerable in an extremely specific way that they can admire and feel closer to you for.

If your emotional vulnerability falls outside of that extremely narrow (and arbitrarily defined) window, then she will get the ick and lose respect for you.

Steakman1 · 2024-01-04T20:58:20+00:00

You can be vulnerable as long as you can also show you have control over it. You can say you’re sad as long as it’s followed up with something that shows you’ll get through it. “I’m sad but I’ll get over it,” “I’m sad but it is what it is,” or “I’m sad but shit happens” are some basic examples. One of my original red pill moments was realizing that lack of emotional control even in short, temporary moments is unacceptable in men despite how much society tries to promote men crying. The consequences of lack of emotional control aren’t always direct and immediate. But they’re there. The exceptions are in extreme moments such as losing a parent.

Maybe one day men can cry like women can and it’ll be accepted. But we are still far from that.

kkkan2020 · 2024-01-04T20:27:18+00:00

You guys know the Miranda rights where its written anything you say can and will be used against you...yeah keep that in mind.

ComfortableJeans · 2024-01-04T21:00:42+00:00

I think it speaks for itself that I can just say "Never Again." and every single guy knows exactally the feeling in the pit of their stomach as their heart sank from just those two words. Most likely they can recall the exact situation where those words trampled through their fucking skull like they were Mufasa in the canyon.

From having it used against you, to having to apologise because you upset them by talking about it, to that palpable feeling of just 'icking' youself in their eyes.

Every guy knows the "Never Again."

JohnGoodman_69 · 2024-01-04T20:47:58+00:00

Protip for men: talk to your male friends and learn something they're vulnerable about and then use their story/vulnerability with your woman. That way if she later weaponizes it when yall fighting it won't hurt as bad and she will fail the shit test.

For my own experiences my long term SO bailed after my mom passed so I know OP to be true.

krackedy · 2024-01-04T19:53:00+00:00

As someone too mentally ill to hide vulnerability, I think it's important to show emotions and vulnerability to weed out the women I'd want nothing to do with anyway.

I think it's pathetic to give your time and attention to someone who would be turned off by your feelings.

fuckredditmodz69 · 2024-01-04T20:39:46+00:00

I've had two separate women stop giving a shit after a close friend died TWICE within 48 hours. They are sympathetic initially then it's back to getting enough attention and the other shit. Really eye opening.

revonssvp · 2024-01-04T22:04:37+00:00

That's true, I feel I must never tell what my personal fights are. They are not interested.

Men must be confidents...

And when a woman asks questions it seems more by curiousity than true interest.

Experience shows I must also not express my feelings, not make compliments...

So what to say in conversations? Just social bullshit and marketing.

To be honest, I'm not sure we can also say how we really feel to men friends.

This is a sad world, everyone with a smiling mask and indifference in hearths.

Well, there are always books and nature:)

Reversegiraffe1 · 2024-01-05T02:14:54+00:00

This why I think sometimes men end up using women for sex without getting into an LTR. Keeping her around in an LTR requires one to be upbeat, stoic, and confident every second of every day. When one start acting like an actual human with real problems, fears, and disappointments, they immediately run for the door. This has been proven countless times by their own experience as well as those of their fellow men. This is not a frame that can realistically be expected for a man to keep 24/7/365. Therefore some just get the sex and prefer not to play the game where they have to be happy and doing cartwheels all day for the rest of their lives without ever being allowed to be human.

silverhippo15 · 2024-01-05T00:22:06+00:00

Considering the laundry list of things women have a low tolerance for, this is no surprise at all. Plus, why would you ever go to a woman for this? They are too self-centered to be of any help. Take care of it yourself.

mybotisonfire · 2024-01-05T07:40:14+00:00

She wants him to be hard enough to make her feel safe but soft enough to know he won't kill her.

Same idea when a 110 pound woman gets a 100 pound pit bull. She wants him to be ready and able to bite others, but never bite her.

No_Hunter4484 · 2024-01-05T11:39:55+00:00

It is so low that If you listen to some "wrong" music its over. Like i legit Need to hide 20% of my Playlist

theitchcockblock · 2024-01-05T14:57:56+00:00

Usually women complained that I don’t show vulnerability so when I decide to show them I get immediately punished lol

ringo61 · 2024-01-05T20:51:42+00:00

Truth. I went out with a woman who claimed to want that, but when I showed the weakness, she said she realized she wasn’t attracted anymore.

classicslayer · 2024-01-04T20:15:53+00:00

You can be vulnerable once in blue moon if you have enough imaginary masculinity tokens. The problem is that alot guys want to be vulnerable with a woman that already thinks they are a little bitch to be begin with and act surprised when it doesnt go well.

Wattehfok · 2024-01-04T20:13:06+00:00

Women play just as big a role as men in enforcing the standards of patriarchy in this regard, my man.

If people want you to be vulnerable, they gotta earn it. Be vulnerable with your friends - not some girl youve just started dating.

SeaSquirrel · 2024-01-05T00:38:59+00:00

If your CMV evidence is anecdote, then my counter is also anecdote.

Being emotionally vulnerable was a shit test for me. If a woman fails it, they aren’t relationship material.

Most have actually passed including my fiancé, who is an excellent listener and lets me be open. I wouldn’t accept anything less, neither should most men.

LocalTruthDealer · 2024-01-04T19:51:20+00:00

Shocker

venutodamoltolontano · 2024-01-04T22:12:57+00:00

Some do have more tolerance than the others. For good measure, hold back and feel her out so you know whether it's safe or not. But even then, don't show everything.

checkeredvansweedman · 2024-01-04T20:52:34+00:00

Yeah it’s true. Women look at men as emotionless simpletons.

Aafan_Barbarro · 2024-01-04T22:46:48+00:00

I don't see what the big deal is. I try to not be vulnerable with my friends or family as well and I definitely wouldn't even try that with a girlfriend. My problems are my own first and foremost and unless someone can actionably help or do something to make worth it, you are just wasting time acting weak for no benefit to yourself, and people can even abuse that. Share as little as possible, unless you are in too deep and have to.

SoumarRu · 2024-01-04T23:34:11+00:00

I lost my girl when my father died, so I understand your point. Women shouldn’t see you when you are weak because they will lose attraction for you they have no control over it it’s biology

RatchedAngle · 2024-01-04T20:08:35+00:00

I can only speak for myself.

Every time my husband has opened up to me, it has resulted in sex.

Every time he closes himself off to me, we end up experiencing prolonged dry spells.

He’s been opening up a lot to me, even used the words “I’m trying to be more vulnerable with you,” and shocker…our dry spell ended once again and we’re having almost daily sex.

Of course, my husband also needs to acknowledge and support my emotional vulnerability in order for me to acknowledge and support his emotional vulnerability.

There have been a few times he’s tried to come to me about a problem after brushing off several of my problems and I gave him the same treatment.

So I really don’t know, here. I feel the opposite way.

Ich_Habe_Genug · 2024-01-04T22:54:17+00:00

If anything, I think the problem is that most men never open up, with the result that bottled up feelings come out, often explosively in anger, sometimes distressingly in depression and sadness in degrees that require a therapist. It's just another case in which women don't want want to play therapist or mommy to the guy they're dating. The stories about women leaving men after they cried over dead friends, pets or parents are just psychopathic, I can't believe that happens regularly. At the same time, it's probably true that in a more traditional relationship, the woman shows more emotional vulnerability, and requires more emotional caretaking, than the man. Once when we had an accident on the road, my father both comforted my mom and us kids, who were crying, and took care of the situation by making calls and so on. How many women would love to date a guy who also burst into tears? Likely not many. It's just the way things are.

Great_Reset_ · 2024-01-04T19:49:10+00:00

100%

a Man should strive to never be emotional in front of a Woman.

8m3gm60 · 2024-01-04T22:25:49+00:00

This depends entirely on the type of woman that you are with. If she wants you as a father figure, this will repulse her.

Yupperdoodledoo · 2024-01-05T03:32:56+00:00

What did she say when she broke up with you about the minor vulnerability you had shared?

Christian-Phoenix · 2024-01-05T12:59:18+00:00

Dang, this hits hard. Hopefully in a loving safe marriage one can actually open up to one’s wife…

TermAggravating8043 · 2024-01-04T20:05:00+00:00

I think some men, struggle to know when the right time to drop emotional bombs are and when to open up a bit is. Maybe this is where woman have a better advantage in the sense of more (and better) support groups around them so they don’t bottle as much up. They do say men depend a lot more in their wife’s emotionally then woman do in their husbands.

I’ll admit I was seeing a guy for about 5 months when (in a moment of stress) he dumped a huge emotional bomb on me and I was overwhelmed because I didn’t know him well enough to help him through it. I tried to do the usual comfort methods I know but it wasn’t enough for him and I felt he was demanding something from me that I just didn’t have. But he had no one else around him he could talk too.

This is where I wish the “mens groups” all the variations of it would focus more on mens mental health and not just new ways to shit on woman

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-01-04T19:56:23+00:00

Women who prefer masculine archetypes may not be cool with vulnerability. Guess who those women are? ETA for clarity ~~Attractive women~~ popular women who are accustomed to masculine archetypes.

The average woman is fine with male vulnerability. Which women are sensitive men pursuing?

confused_makeup · 2024-01-04T19:50:41+00:00

Have you thought about the fact that you might not be sharing in appropriate ways?

In all honesty, while I can't speak for other women, I know this is false for myself. I enjoy being able to be supportive for my partner when he is going through something. In fact, before we even dated, he was extremely vulnerable with me about his messed up childhood. That was one of the things that caused me to crush on him initially - his willingness to be vulnerable.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2024-01-04T21:33:26+00:00

Should a man be vulnerable with a woman? Yes.

Share as much as you can about what makes you happy, sad, passionate, excited, horny, etc. Tell her your hopes and dreams. Usually accentuate the positive but don't shy away from telling your story and how you got to where you are now, your past successes and struggles. Talking about things you struggled with in the past and how you overcame them can bring you closer and greatly increase her attraction to you.

Should a man put a burden of emotional support on a woman? No.

You may be able to get away with it short-term but you are at a high risk of decreasing her attraction to you even then. Asking her to support you emotionally long-term almost always puts the relationship at risk. Seek emotional support from your male friends and your therapist. When things are resolved or you're confident it's under control you can share your journey with her. She'll probably appreciate it. Do not let things build up to the point where you blow up on your SO. That's a great way to alienate her.

apresonly · 2024-01-04T22:31:21+00:00

men become distressed when being vulnerable bc of social conditioning (patriarchy) and then mind read/infer that everyone thinks they're a giant loser bc this is the script that has been put in their head from the time they were toddlers.

women do also have a lower tolerance for male vulnerability than they should. women uphold and enforce the patriarchy just like men do.

both things are true.

TheImmortalBantha · 2024-01-04T21:26:33+00:00

I think women generally are very kind to their friends, relations and children when they show vulnerability, just not their romantic partners.

Furthermore, you shouldn't give a fuck about what they think. If you want to cry, cry. That's masculine. Fearing the reactions of others is weak.

Ich_Habe_Genug · 2024-01-04T22:59:46+00:00

On a positive note, if you can call it that, I actually have borderline personality disorder and was in a few group therapies, also a group theray for panic disorders. All the men in those groups had very supportive wives and girlfriends. We're talking about men with borderline who admitted to crying nearly daily, men with panic disorders who would hyperventilate when going to supermarkets. None of them were single.

GeneralFig6053 · 2024-01-04T21:12:50+00:00

Do males also have a low tolerance for male sadness ? Do males also have a low tolerance for women’s sadness?

KaleidoscopeOk9162 · 2024-01-04T21:15:20+00:00

I think it should go in both directions though. As I shouldn't be my SO's psychiatrist so she shouldn't be mine.

She tended to react aggressively from time to time. I once made crystal clear that I wasn't willing to accept "tantrums": she worked on herself, first and foremost for her own sake, and for the relationship as well.

Long before I suffered of heavy depression (with a suicide attempt). Oddly, that place of darkness even attracted some women (I am a musician, so I might have had some artiste maudit aura) - but they escaped really quick after they saw how deep my rabbit hole was. Immaturely, I felt upset at first, but I soon realized I am the one who should put his own shit together and nobody else.

I don't think showing a vulnerability is a problem. The issue comes when one revels in it and does nothing to overcome it.

Fauxmannequin · 2024-01-04T22:22:33+00:00

I disagree. But there’s definitely a line somewhere between being emotionally vulnerable and treating your SO as a free therapist. I think people of both genders sometimes treat those as being the same, and that’s bad for everyone.

However, I do think men are typically worse about finding that line because they tend to not be a part of as many supportive social circles as women are (whether family, friends, therapy, etc).

To me, the men that I want are open about all their emotions, but don’t place a burden on me for their negative ones or make me feel responsible for making them feel better. For example, they’ll tell me about their past/current struggles, but they’re currently seeking or in the process of getting help. For an alternate recent example, there was one guy I knew and initially really liked, but he had bad PTSD and depression that he told me all about as we got to know each other. However, he refused to get any help, and so I was stuck in this awful position of taking care of him through several episodes when I really wasn’t equipped to. And that situation ultimately benefits neither of us, and yes, did kill my attraction to him.

Safinated · 2024-01-04T20:02:30+00:00

Yes. I get around this double standard by not having much need for vulnerability and feelings myself

richard_golbes · 2024-01-04T20:28:14+00:00

Whenever these posts come up I can’t help but interpret “sharing vulnerability” as something akin to “sharing extremely offensive reactionary political opinions.”

i shared with her my unpopular opinion that most women think like children and shouldn’t be allowed to vote she threw it back in my face :(

Sophiatab · 2024-01-04T20:00:01+00:00

Women have a low tolerance for male vulnerability because men exploit women's vulnerability and usually ignore any emotional need women have. Why the hell should a woman be a man's free emotional counselor when he provides absolutely nothing in return? It's enough that we tolerate so much boring, male stupidity on an ongoing basis.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-01-05T00:56:02+00:00

That’s funny because I’ve often felt like men only want me around when fun and entertaining. It’s not so much that they get “the ick” when I’m emotionally vulnerable, but they definitely don’t want to deal with it and want me to get happy asap or they’ll get annoyed/angry. Even showing slight frustration seems to be a problem. So I’ve learned it’s best to really let it out only with my mom or a female friend.

That being said, if you really can never be emotionally vulnerable with your partner, they aren’t the one.

Right-Possibility966 · 2024-01-05T03:37:16+00:00

It’s probably difficult when you’ve been conditioned to think males are superior to you and here I go being “vulnerable”.

concretecannonball · 2024-01-04T20:19:02+00:00

I think lots of men confuse making their feelings everyone else’s problem for vulnerability.

Women like emotionally intelligent men with communication skills. We do not like being free therapists and support systems for people who are incapable of reciprocating. Women don’t have a low tolerance for male sadness, we have a low tolerance for men who cope with that sadness with aggression or emotional manipulation.

Comfortable-Regret · 2024-01-04T21:04:00+00:00

Can't relate, find better women

Front_Ad_3133 · 2024-01-05T06:57:01+00:00

So yes and no and yes.

First I’ll say to OP and others who have felt this, I’m so sorry. Your feelings are real, true and valid. It is deeply painful to have it rejected by someone you care about.

Because of stupid gender norms and the way we were raised, many women have an unrealistic expectation that mental should be “stoic”. There are also a large swatches of men that play into this unhealthy dynamic (yay patriarchy!). I hope this becomes less common as time passes, and from what I’ve seen Millennials and Gen Z are a lot better at emotional vulnerability and compassion than previous generations

Here is the knitty gritty of it: how, when, and whom you open up to matters a lot.

If we are on a first date and you tell me that you are struggling with depression, alcohol addiction and checked out a lot in life, I would rightfully tell you I hope everything goes well and look for someone else. Why? It’s a first date, I’m a stranger. I do not want to be used as an emotional crutch, and if you truly are struggling with all those things, WHY ARE YOU DATING?!? You should be taking care of yourself, talking to your friends, therapist, in rehab, etc.

Now, if we have been on 3+ dates (or talking for a long time) and you tell me, “ I have struggled with depression + alcoholism but am stable, I have a a good therapist and have been sober for 1+yrs” yes it will be received differently. In this case, you are asserting that as an individual you have taken charge of your mental and emotional health, and are in a good place. Then by all means listen to their cues of whether they ask you more questions and how compassionate they are. If they respond with disgust, cold indifference, etc. then they are not emotionally mature. They suck and it’s on them, not you. Keep in mind even so, they don’t owe you anything. Someone could say “thank you for sharing that with me, I’m sorry you went through that and you’re really strong. However, I don’t think I can continue this relationship. My father struggled with the same and it could potentially be a trigger for me if you relapse, I really hope you understand” and that’s a completely understandable, albeit heartbreaking reaction.

I’ve had male friends tell me the same, and when I probe and ask them in what situations they open up to women they tell me it’s with a stranger in the initial dates or after having sex and they are mad they got turned down. When I ask them why they don’t open up to other guys friends or girl friends, they reply “guys aren’t like that”. So you mean to tell me you rely on women to give you all the emotional support? So you pretty much bottle up all your feelings and traumas ALL THE TIME until you find a friendly woman to unload on? That’s so hard on you as a person, and unfair to a woman.

So in conclusion, I think it’s (a) finding the right timing (b) finding the right person (so get to know them first) (c) ensuring that you are not just venting, but taking ownership of your emotions and (d) cultivating strong supportive friendships that enable you to be vulnerable outside of romantic relationships (e) seeking help from therapy/books/etc when needed. Because having to wait on a cute friendly girl in order to open up, that sucks.

Realistic-Ad-1023 · 2024-01-04T21:32:46+00:00

My father, brothers, cousins, friends and partners who are men can all come to me and receive empathy and compassion and comfort when expressing their thoughts and feelings. My father cried often growing up - and still does. My fiancé is someone who is always willing to let me know when he’s sad or had a bad day or needs a little extra love. My cousins and brothers come to me to vent about a difficult day or trouble with women or their kids or whatever.

Randomly expressing emotions to any woman who has given you ten minutes of her time, trauma dumping to women on the internet, or trapping women with manipulative “woe is me” behavior on a first date - nope. Nope. Nope.

You have to build intimacy, it isn’t something you’re owed.

-mithra- · 2024-01-05T01:23:06+00:00

I don’t know that this is true of you, but people I know personally who say this are typically ‘vulnerable’ in ways that project mental and emotional instability. There is the obvious guy punching a hole in drywall meme, but even less extreme things like shouting, stomping, neurotically complaining about the same issue, etc come off as unsettling. I am a man and when women behave like that I am less attracted to them for it.

LeggyProgressivist · 2024-01-05T13:12:53+00:00

What do you mean by “major ick”? Learning who to be vulnerable with is a huge part of emotional intelligence. Not every relationship is conducive to this kind of intimacy. Women know this as well, which is why we reserve our deepest conversations for the friends and partners with a proven track record of understanding. Women are not rehab specialists for broken men. You can’t just pour your heart out to every schoolmate, work friend, or relative and expect them to nurture your feelings in a positive manner. Compared to women, men have less practice using emotional discernment. They’ve never had to; They were expected to be the “less emotional” gender. Women are warned from a young age that they are ruled by emotion, so we have more practice with knowing who to trust with these things.

I see your way of thinking being very common among traditional-not modern relationships. What value are a man’s emotion in an arrangement that only has two purposes: duty and provision? A relational construct built on love, care, emotional support and affection allows for more leeway. Nobody wants to be with someone who either doesn’t know how or refuses to say what’s wrong with them. Guessing games are for children.

SmilesRHere · 2024-01-04T22:13:38+00:00

Yeah dude, that is not about women and how they react to vulnerability.

Their reaction is how instead of showing compassion you seem to be trying to one up their sadness/vulnerability with a “me too”.

I would have no tolerance for any women who did what you describe doing to them either.

It’s you, not them.

As for the others who have commented in support of OP, I would recommend a little self contemplation, if you can that is.

More often than not, people blame others, instead of honestly looking at what they may have done to mess things up.

MateriallyRetarded · 2024-01-05T02:40:28+00:00

Stop being an emotional, little bitch you fucking sissy queer. You're scaring the hoes.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2024-01-04T22:42:23+00:00

Men have bad intimate social skills from ignoring women's thoughts and feelings for 3000 years.

checkeredvansweedman · 2024-01-04T20:54:03+00:00

I’m team dry spell. I’m not gonna have sex while crying.

onerous_onanist · 2024-01-05T09:51:38+00:00

The concept of "male vulnerability" does not exist in my own language therefore it's western bullshit perpetuated by overly anxious terminally online people. Never heard anyone say that men (or even women) need to be more vulnerable outside of the internet, actual vulnerability is simply never a good thing for anyone ever.

The real life version of it is just "be more open" which is really just "I have this problem and it feels bad but I'll deal with it and move on" instead of insisting that everything is fine and not revealing anything. Which makes you vulnerable in the same sense that practically everything else in the life does - you reveal something about yourself that other people can judge, how much you let it affect you is another thing

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hapanrapakkko · 2024-01-05T16:03:24+00:00

I'm sorry for you that you have encountered so cruel women. I can't imagine being in a relationship in which my partner couldn't share his vulnerabilities to me. I have held my husband in my arms when he is crying and he has done the same to me.

iamatwork24 · 2024-01-05T18:35:53+00:00

I’ve always had no problem expressing my vulnerability to the women I’ve dated. Maybe because outside of those times I’m best described as stoic but I’ve always been told by my partners that they truly appreciate it when I share those things. They’ve held me when I cried, relaxed me when I’m angry, cheered me up when I’m sad and just listened when that’s all I need. Always had a lot of friends who are women as well and nearly all of them truly appreciate the men they date being vulnerable. Those that don’t are heavily outnumbered by those that do. Sounds like you’ve just dealt with an emotionally stunted girl or two in your life and then applied that to all women, which is dumb. Am very curious to know what the vulnerability you shared is that made her end it.

SupposedlySapiens · 2024-01-05T18:51:00+00:00

I’ve had the completely opposite experience. I’m always open with my thoughts and feelings, and I’ve never felt judged or criticized by a woman for showing vulnerability. And if I ever am, that’s their problem. If a woman is going to judge me for being a human, then I’m not really interested in having her in my life.

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-01-05T18:54:10+00:00

Women want James Bond... But he's a fictional character.... In reality men have feels,emotions,fears,hopes.... We're just forced by society to shove all this shit deep down inside because we're told men are stoic and strong and don't show emotions..... Women look at men and want a rock but in reality we're dying inside... Why do you think male self deletion is so high

Rare-Emu-119 · 2024-01-06T08:11:53+00:00

They don’t like it. Why is this still debated lol

Dontbiteitok24 · 2024-01-07T08:57:04+00:00

Do not be a nice guy.

Similar-Spirit-6474 · 2024-01-07T11:11:42+00:00

Basically if you are vulnerable cause you don't like hitting guys and feel sad , women are there for you.

If you are vulnerable cause you don't like getting hit by guys and feel sad, women aren't there for you

Title	CMV, women have a low tolerance for male vulnerability which perpetuates men not expressing their thoughts and feelings
Author	IlIIlIIIlIl
Upvotes	217
Comments	474
Date	January 4, 2024 7:43 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/18ylwzv/cmv_women_have_a_low_tolerance_for_male/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-women-have-a-low-tolerance-for-male.1242252 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242252

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