~ archived since 2018 ~

When did the narrative shift from "it's your personality and misogyny that keeping you single" to "ofc women love attractive men, are you a stupid shut in!!" ?

AggressiveRabbit1530

September 9, 2025

213 upvotes

If you go back five years ago on this sub or any of those spaces, you will see this all the time.

Why do you guys pretend that people didnt claim that women liked personality more than looks? Why do you guys pretend that you didnt tell struggling men its their personality or that their misogyny is the reason while knowing dudes with similar beliefs who didnt struggle at all.

Why do you guys pretend that you didn't tell men that women's sexuality is evolved beyond shallow carnalities like facial attractiveness and height ?

Hell a few days ago there was a comment with thousands of upvotes on r/AskReddit claiming that women's attraction goes beyond physical looks. Are you denying the existence of that narrative right now ? Really ?

Why do you guys pretend that you didn't downplay how important physical attractiveness is when it comes to dating ? Why do you pretend like you never took the moral high-ground talking about your pure divine attraction unlike the sexual animalistic primal shallow men?

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Post Information

Title	When did the narrative shift from "it's your personality and misogyny that keeping you single" to "ofc women love attractive men, are you a stupid shut in!!" ?
Author	AggressiveRabbit1530
Upvotes	213
Comments	537
Date	September 9, 2025 7:39 PM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ncstov/when_did_the_narrative_shift_from_its_your/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/when-did-the-narrative-shift-from-its-your.1561656 https://theredarchive.com/post/1561656

Comments

[–]krackedyMarried Blue Pill Man 17 points18 points19 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]FrulioBandarisBlue Pill Man 31 points32 points33 points 11 months ago (41 children) | Copy Link

[–]firetrap2Purple Pill Married Man 11 points12 points13 points 11 months ago* (35 children) | Copy Link

[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman 3 points4 points5 points 11 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]firetrap2Purple Pill Married Man 6 points7 points8 points 11 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]firetrap2Purple Pill Married Man 9 points10 points11 points 11 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 11 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]firetrap2Purple Pill Married Man 7 points8 points9 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]TheDONKnightRed Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Visual_Jellyfish8074No Pill 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]firetrap2Purple Pill Married Man 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FrulioBandarisBlue Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (19 children) | Copy Link

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[–]FrulioBandarisBlue Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 11 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]FrulioBandarisBlue Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Starcraft_IIIPurple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]FrulioBandarisBlue Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]firetrap2Purple Pill Married Man 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]FrulioBandarisBlue Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

You're making a lot of presumptions to try to force a particular answer from me I think.

I don't see it as an "either or" situation. There's no inherent tradeoff between looks/being nice. Really you should just be nice in general, so I'm not sure what working on that would even look like, but you can be nice and work on your looks with zero conflict.

and in your opinion that'll work for most guys?

Not what I said. If you're hot but an asshole, a woman will figure that out eventually and you'll become her toxic ex. If you're nice but she chose to be with you despite you not being the hottest guy in the room, she isn't going to hop off as soon as someone better looking asks (unless she herself is an asshole, which is entirely possible), because she's chosen to invest in you.

Basically you can get sex without being nice if you are hot, but you cannot keep a relationship by just being hot. Looks fade.

[–]firetrap2Purple Pill Married Man 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]FrulioBandarisBlue Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]firetrap2Purple Pill Married Man 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]FrulioBandarisBlue Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]firetrap2Purple Pill Married Man 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Personality and finances then.

Break this down for me then. As most of this advise is going to be aimed at young men. They're not going to have good finances and saying "just have a good personality" is like saying "just be attractive". I worked sales jobs while I was at uni, I can tell you for a fact there's 3 kinda of people who can sell. 1) People who just have a gift of being able to talk to people 2)Tall men 3)women with large breasts/very attractive. To me when someone saying "just have a better personality" it's like saying "just be good at sales".

Then it's finances. How many young men do you think have their finances sorted? They're likey in a load of debt or studying or in an entry level job. So what are you telling a 19 year old? "Hey worked yourself half to death until your 30 and maybe, just maybe you might get laid" Do you really think a 19 year old is going to want to hear that? Do you remember how old 30 felt when you were 19?

You also need to get into relationships to learn how to be a good partner, you really need to be doing this in your late teens and early to mid 20s. The idea you're just going to some how just be good at being in a relationship with 0 experience is crazy.

The problem is most of the men on this sub want a relationship only for consistent access to sex. They don't know what a relationship actually is. I think that's why they get conflicting answers - people think they're asking about something other than what they're really asking.

Yeah because they've not had relationships so they don't know what they're trying to get. The way to realise the value of relationships is by having them and you're not going to do that by by some how just getting a better personality or by some how beating all the odds and being wealthy at 21.

[–]FrulioBandaris1 point 10 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Realistic-Ad-1023Blue Pill Woman - Purple in Certain Lights 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]StellaKnightz 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FlamingMetalSystems 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]FrulioBandarisBlue Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TylikcatBlue Pill Woman 37 points38 points39 points 11 months ago (46 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gold_Sheepherder6569No Pill man 72 points73 points74 points 11 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clean-Luck6428Grey Pill Man 37 points38 points39 points 11 months ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

Yeah never understood the logic

Men are sexually visual, but that does not imply they prioritize looks more. Really it just means that men have a minimum threshold to be physically attracted to a woman, which is much more binary than responsive sexuality that most women have.

Women are much more easily turned off by men who aren’t physically attractive and have a narrower range of men whom they find physically attractive. The filter women use to pick attractive men is much more selective than the filter men use.

That said when you look at what people prioritize for marriage, women tend to value looks less for marriage than a hookup and for men it is the opposite. I don’t think this is purely because men are desperate, but also just that men prefer to have hookups with women who are “down bad.”

As I am now looking for a life partner, I am absolutely prioritizing looks more than I did in my college years. For me it feels like biological impulse: I want my kids to have the best genetic opportunity possible. Im tall and fit and I would not want to dilute my genes by having a kid with a woman who is short and unfit

[–]ASnowfallOfCherry 7 points8 points9 points 11 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clean-Luck6428Grey Pill Man 22 points23 points24 points 11 months ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Yep.

Have hooked up with plenty of shorties but I don’t want to dilute my tall genes.

My height filter on the app is set to 5’6 and up.

I’m 6’3 making me about top 1-2 percentile. I believe the height for women in the same percentile depends on source but somewhere between 5’9 and 5’11. I’d ideally like to be with someone that height that but not a deal breaker if they are couple inches taller or shorter.

Taller women ironically are often harder to match with as they tend to more often have slender physiques since they can eat more than short women without gaining weight. There’s a whole lot of overweight short women who would love to date a tall muscular dude, but I’m done being on the market for these women. They look stupid with a giant bf next to them. I don’t want to look stupid. They’d look cuter with a guy just a little taller than them

[–]The-Devilz-AdvocateRed Pill Chaos Enthusiast / Man 23 points24 points25 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MarioWilson122Red Pill Man 6 points7 points8 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AkittenNo Pill Man 6 points7 points8 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Komissariat 2 points3 points4 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Probably not if we are speaking strict biological attraction (ie, whatever gets your limbic circuitry going and blood pumping down there), but in modern day and age it should be. Firstly, even the high status males are mostly having kids with 1 maybe 2 women, whereas in the times our brains evolved to fancy certain features in a mate he might've easily knocked up 5-10 different madams. So it made no sense for a male to be picky, but now when your lineage really might rest on the combined genetics of you and one single woman, a strict selection criteria for her would make sense. I mean, what if you marry a short woman and she only gives you male offspring of medium height? You better start teaching them Japanese early or it'll certainly be the end of your line.

So yes, if you are using any of your frontal cortex in selecting a life-partner, you will definitely look at height as well.

[–]Careful_Ebb3052 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Logos1789Man 24 points25 points26 points 11 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Exciting-Parfait-776No Pill 22 points23 points24 points 11 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]OkShame3452Redish Pill Man 9 points10 points11 points 11 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]OkShame3452Redish Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ctrl_f_saucePurple Pill Man 8 points9 points10 points 11 months ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]J-MAMA 4 points5 points6 points 11 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]ctrl_f_saucePurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]J-MAMA 3 points4 points5 points 11 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ctrl_f_saucePurple Pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 11 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I am literally getting my steps in, and not retreating to the comfort of my cave (home), while saying, “hi” to people who smile at me. I am participating in the bare minimum social life. I am doing the type of thing a person who just arrived in a vacation destination would do to get a feel for daily life in the city. I would describe daily life as lacking men to a noticeable level. There are plenty of young guys who are under 23ish, but they seem to be engaged in intense conversations with the other men in their groups. There are a handful of guys who are walking while checking their phones often enough that is unclear of they ever noticed we were walking towards each other for 1/4 mile. However there are tables full of women who will look up at me and size me up as I walk by. The vast majority of the women have no noticeable reaction, a few smile and track me.

I don’t know if you realize it, but you’re acting like an urban apartment dweller vegan commenting on a discussion about hunting, while not clearly stating that you’re an urban apartment dwelling vegan. It seems like you have a point that you’re trying to make but you’re concealing it. The point of this conversation is when did the discussion change to “be attractive & not a shot in.” I noted that it seems as though guys are shut ins. You commented, “Yes, guys are shut ins for reasons.” Yet it sounds like you’re missing the overall point which is why are people not coupling, and what can be done to help increase coupling. Having reasons to be a shut in won’t increase coupling. I don’t think you’re red pilled, rejecting all things blue doesn’t make you red pilled. You’re arguing the voluntary celibate position of a MGTOW, which is cool. I have a daughter and prefer a world where bitter men who find it easier to embrace isolation than learning from their mistakes won’t show up as an option on my daughter’s menu.

[–]J-MAMA 4 points5 points6 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ctrl_f_saucePurple Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]anonymousppd123123Red Pill Man 3 points4 points5 points 11 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TylikcatBlue Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dismal-Alfalfa-7613Purple Pill Woman 4 points5 points6 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) 17 points18 points19 points 11 months ago (63 children) | Copy Link

[–]Logos1789Man 13 points14 points15 points 11 months ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gold_Sheepherder6569No Pill man [score hidden] 11 months ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[+]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) [score hidden] 11 months ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gold_Sheepherder6569No Pill man [score hidden] 11 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Thebuguy [score hidden] 11 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) [score hidden] 11 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Visual_Jellyfish8074No Pill [score hidden] 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) [score hidden] 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Visual_Jellyfish80747 points 11 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Traditional_Lab1192Blue Pill Woman [score hidden] 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Thebuguy6 points 11 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm talking about popular articles, blogs and posts on discussion forums and feminist websites. Over a decade ago it was hard to find these posts of women unabashedly saying bad boys were fun, it was all gaslighting about how women preferred nice guys. Then around 2015 or so the tone shifted and in these same places women kept getting more blunt and candid.

currently, in more radical places, you've got women going full darwinian. you'll notice it in the future.

aside from that, yes, it's common to see a specific woman go from one opinion to the other in a few posts after the man she's talking to doesn't fall for her make believe. It's similar to what people on /r/foreveralone experience when talking to the usual "just shower and be nice" kind of posters who then turn aggressive after the FA tells them their advice hasn't worked for them.

I just find it funny because we absolutely predicted this shift ages ago.

[–]Superannuated_punk4 points 11 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Visual_Jellyfish8074No Pill [score hidden] 11 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) [score hidden] 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Visual_Jellyfish807410 points 11 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You’re doing the incel caricature shit. There are plenty of mouth breathing misogynistic men who have partners, and do not want for physical intimacy. That’s not excluding factor to attracting women, which is what most BP arguments are predicated on. Which begets the critiques you’re seeing right now.

Personality only matters after you’ve passed the looks test and, like many BP posters have said in this very thread, that’s shit children understand early on! Hence OP identifying an about-face “shift” in the narrative without adequate acknowledgement of how pervasive past narratives are.

Again, nobody is shocked. We’re just perplexed that suddenly posters are acting like women being just as shallow as men is something that has been commonly said, when it hasn’t been. In fact, that very notion has been resisted and actively argued against until recently.

[–]Muscletov9 points 11 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Nard_BardCarl Jung/Ted Kaczynski pilled [score hidden] 11 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) [score hidden] 11 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

🤦‍♂️

Can any of you guys read?

Yes women like good looking guys. You’d have to be willfully blind not to realise that.

But good-looking gets your foot in the door. That’s it. For every hot guy, there’s a woman who’s sick of his shit.

Chicks also like friendly, funny, charming, kind and sweet guys.

If you’re not good-looking, there’s a few things you can do to improve matters, but you’re kinda stuck with the face you were born with.

What is far more malleable is your personality, and how you treat others.

Ask literally any woman and she’ll tell you a story of becoming more attracted to a guy once she’d gotten to know him.

Meanwhile, terps are out here telling you that if she’s not taking her knickers off within ten seconds of meeting you, it’s over.

That’s comforting. It means you are obviously the ideal version of yourself - it’s just that the women could never appreciate your finer qualities because THEYRE ALL STUCK UP GOLD DIGGING WHORES WHO ONLY WANT CHAD!!1!

[–]Illustrious_Wish_383Purple Pill Man [score hidden] 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) 6 points7 points8 points 11 months ago (18 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) -1 points0 points1 point 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]El_Chucaro 5 points6 points7 points 11 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) 7 points8 points9 points 11 months ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]LogicalRun5792Bitter Pill Man 5 points6 points7 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]El_Chucaro 6 points7 points8 points 11 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) 3 points4 points5 points 11 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]El_Chucaro 8 points9 points10 points 11 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) 2 points3 points4 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]El_Chucaro 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Icy_Ad_4544<< WOMAN >> 💖*~ Chad’s Mom ~*💖 4 points5 points6 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]El_Chucaro 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Icy_Ad_4544<< WOMAN >> 💖*~ Chad’s Mom ~*💖 2 points3 points4 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) 5 points6 points7 points 11 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) 2 points3 points4 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Superannuated_punkManliest man that ever manned (Blue Pill) 2 points3 points4 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, poly, somewhat blue 7 points8 points9 points 11 months ago (65 children) | Copy Link

[–]No_Self_2165Red Pill Man 51 points52 points53 points 11 months ago (61 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, poly, somewhat blue -1 points0 points1 point 11 months ago (25 children) | Copy Link

I fuck stranger on a first date, but with screening his personality. Don’t care about ghosting (why do you list it among abuse i have no idea, it’s not scary at all). Abuse was small and unavoidable, and easily stopped, don’t care much about that either, and stuff? What stuff? And yet i did it because i felt safe enough. Because of culture (it was in safe countries), because of measures that i did to prevent something serious. I also knew women who felt safe without it, to me they are delusional, but well, to them I’m probably paranoid. You act like those women fucked when they didn’t feel safe, but you confusing feelings before situations and the result. They probably felt safe, they probably were dumb enough to not realise the dangers, and they probably stopped feeling safe after and during. Your argument is stupid.

[–]El_Chucaro 25 points26 points27 points 11 months ago* (22 children) | Copy Link

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[–]El_Chucaro 15 points16 points17 points 11 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) 2 points3 points4 points 11 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]El_Chucaro 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]El_Chucaro 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]EulenWatcher2 points 10 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]sablesalsaPurple Pill Woman -2 points-1 points0 points 11 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]El_Chucaro 9 points10 points11 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]sablesalsaPurple Pill Woman 3 points4 points5 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]El_Chucaro 10 points11 points12 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JustGeminiThingsBlue Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 11 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]El_Chucaro 5 points6 points7 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FlamingMetalSystems 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]JustGeminiThingsBlue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, poly, somewhat blue -2 points-1 points0 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]El_Chucaro 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FlamingMetalSystems 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, poly, somewhat blue 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lysa_Bellpost wall ghost 👻♀️ 3 points4 points5 points 11 months ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]Cultural-Ad-8486Slavic Purple Pill Man 12 points13 points14 points 11 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lysa_Bellpost wall ghost 👻♀️ 4 points5 points6 points 11 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]The-Devilz-AdvocateRed Pill Chaos Enthusiast / Man 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lysa_Bellpost wall ghost 👻♀️ -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]The-Devilz-AdvocateRed Pill Chaos Enthusiast / Man 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lysa_Bellpost wall ghost 👻♀️ 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]The-Devilz-AdvocateRed Pill Chaos Enthusiast / Man 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lysa_Bell1 point 10 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AkittenNo Pill Man 9 points10 points11 points 11 months ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lysa_Bellpost wall ghost 👻♀️ 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]AkittenNo Pill Man 12 points13 points14 points 11 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]darthsekk -1 points0 points1 point 11 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]AkittenNo Pill Man 8 points9 points10 points 11 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]darthsekk 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway_alt_slo 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 11 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]AkittenNo Pill Man 6 points7 points8 points 11 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, poly, somewhat blue 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]AkittenNo Pill Man 8 points9 points10 points 11 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, poly, somewhat blue -2 points-1 points0 points 11 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]AkittenNo Pill Man 8 points9 points10 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, poly, somewhat blue -1 points0 points1 point 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AkittenNo Pill Man 7 points8 points9 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FlamingMetalSystems 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, poly, somewhat blue 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Administration_EasyPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]No_Self_2165Red Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FlamingMetalSystems 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, poly, somewhat blue 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway_alt_slo 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Avast_LionBlue Pill Woman | Egalitarian Feminist 2 points3 points4 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The thing about blue pill is that it refers to everyone who isn’t part of a single niche online subculture. That’s a lot of different opinions about dating. The people who created all the media for little boys wherein the beautiful princess is a reward for you doing the right things AND the feminists who critiqued that media are both blue pill. Your parents are blue pill. Lesbian separatists are blue pill. It’s true that the narrative that you can “earn” a woman’s attraction by just performing a set of good actions is false, but that came from a specific set of bluepillers with a specific set of values. And it’s what internet feminists have been complaining about re niceguys this whole time. “Why does he think I should date him just because he opens doors and doesn’t do drugs? Now he’s mad at me??”
I think there is a misconception about “personality” going on here. It is true that women’s attraction is less visual than men’s and is more based on things like charisma and social aptitude than men’s. That’s what a lot of women mean by “personality.” That’s what that commenter meant by attraction that is “mental not physical.” But charisma is different from just, like, being a decent dude, which is what OP might mean by “personality.” It’s about social magnetism vs social awkwardness, and it’s no more or less shallow to be concerned with than physical appearance.

[–]FlamingMetalSystems 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Artistic_Speech_1965Blue Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah that was something I was surprised by. I have even see case of good looking guy who didn't find any date. I asked different pills and understood part of the problem was a question of environment. There are place where being a single virgin over 30 is perfectly normal where you are a complet loser if you didn't had sex and 1 partner before 18. There are places where casual sex is the norm while waiting for the mariage is the custom. Even certain "type" are popular in some place and not popular in others

I discovered that the environment of people who tend to become RP tend to be more shallow in general, and yes there are a lot of shallow women there

To go back about the hypocrisy, there are not. Women always say that physical attractiveness is not the ONLY factor. That's why they are complex and sometimes hard to please (that's why having boundaries is essential)

[–]throwaway_alt_slo 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]YupperdoodledooBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (263 children) | Copy Link

[–]ViolentShallotRed Pill Man 52 points53 points54 points 11 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]IridikronsNo1FanNo Pill Man 31 points32 points33 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]FlamingMetalSystems 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EKOzoro -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]VersionEins 25 points26 points27 points 11 months ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman -2 points-1 points0 points 11 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Independent-Mail-227Man 10 points11 points12 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman -4 points-3 points-2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ParadoxicalFrog2 7 points8 points9 points 10 months ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman -2 points-1 points0 points 10 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]ParadoxicalFrog2 6 points7 points8 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SomerandomduderebornBottom 20% Man/It is what it is Pill 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SomerandomduderebornBottom 20% Man/It is what it is Pill 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway_alt_slo 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Confident_Counter471Purple Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]champion_azureBlack Suppository Man 20 points21 points22 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Nephilim8Purple Pill Man 20 points21 points22 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The general vibe I get is that women say it's about personality and misogyny when they feel attacked and want to make the guy look like the reason for his own problems. It puts the blame squarely on the guy for his dating problems. It puts no blame on women. This allows women to look good maintain the moral high-ground.

But in cases where it's undeniable that women go for the tall, attractive guys, they admit that looks are important - "and you're an idiot for not knowing that". The "you're an idiot for not knowing that" is a criticism that distracts from the original point, and makes the guy look dumb. The "women like good looking" is slightly more bad for women because it can be seen as shallow and guys (generally) can't do much about their looks. (In some ways, guys can do stuff about their looks, but only in limited ways - like losing weight, but they can't get taller.) This opens up women to the threat of being called shallow. Disliking someone because they aren't hot enough requires ceding the moral high ground.

The end result is that "it's your personality and misogyny" is a safer argument to maintain the moral high-ground.

[–]Nastrosme 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sea_Life654 8 points9 points10 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Starcraft_IIIPurple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NiceCaterpillar8745No Pill Man 19 points20 points21 points 11 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]MuscletovMaroon pill man 8 points9 points10 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SomerandomduderebornBottom 20% Man/It is what it is Pill 6 points7 points8 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Nephilim8Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BashFishBlack Pill Man 6 points7 points8 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SomerandomduderebornBottom 20% Man/It is what it is Pill 15 points16 points17 points 11 months ago (68 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway_alt_slo 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXMEANIE LADY MOD ♀💁‍♀️ -4 points-3 points-2 points 11 months ago* (66 children) | Copy Link

[–]SomerandomduderebornBottom 20% Man/It is what it is Pill 14 points15 points16 points 11 months ago (65 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXMEANIE LADY MOD ♀💁‍♀️ 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago* (64 children) | Copy Link

[–]SomerandomduderebornBottom 20% Man/It is what it is Pill 10 points11 points12 points 11 months ago* (58 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXMEANIE LADY MOD ♀💁‍♀️ 3 points4 points5 points 11 months ago* (57 children) | Copy Link

Women are not “black pilled.” Most women aren’t cognitively deficient linear-only-thinking freaks who require “pills” as-told-by-the-internet to unpack basic facts of life such as: “men have to pass a looks threshold to enter into her orbit, and from there, he has to interact with her in a charismatic and attractive way to trigger her arousal.”

Most women are realists when it comes to this shit. Simply.

So no, we will not edit the rules for now. Learn to talk about realistic shit without evoking 4chan-level bullshit.

And "varying degrees" have been shifting from more personality than looks to more looks than personality, in a span of what. A couple months? Like I said, superb job 👌.

It’s literally been BOTH for my entire ten fucking years here. Only idiots and the cognitively inept have ever been fucking confused. Which is why those retarded mfers were banned and relegated to a mega thread for their autistic special fixation. Just imbecilic slop.

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 6 points7 points8 points 11 months ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Cultural-Ad-8486Slavic Purple Pill Man 7 points8 points9 points 11 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Starcraft_IIIPurple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ParadoxicalFrog23 points 10 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXMEANIE LADY MOD ♀💁‍♀️ -1 points0 points1 point 11 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Cultural-Ad-84861 point 11 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don’t remember what? WTH is Anal week?

I didn't say you don't remember this exactly But yeah, "Anal Week" is a funny thing they called the constant appearance of posts on the topic of n-count. Like: "My girlfriend had anal sex with her ex but she doesn't want to with me, what should I do("

Unless you wanted this sub quarantined like all of the overs subs that demographic ruined, I reckon none of you know what the fuck you’re talking about

I know that most of the PP and other people have left here. That's enough.

Just whining and venting at the big bad mods ruining your little lives 😒

It's more of a mixture of surprise that you somehow managed to forget that the constant disregard for the importance of appearance was and still is a thing here.

But in terms of moderation... Yes, almost everything I noticed here is extra pro-feminist/bluep people. And despite the fact that I understand the reason (so that the sub wouldn't be blocked), it's sad that everything is so one-sided

And to be honest, I don't understand why you rushed at me and the others. It seems like you're the one whining about how you're being "offended"

[–]GridReXX1 point 11 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Cultural-Ad-84862 points 11 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GridReXX2 points 11 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah, sure. That's why you just threw out a few comments openly calling men here shit

I threw out one about a specific incessant trollish demographic of self-progressed autists who we had to literally ban from their self-admitted brigading.

The rest of my comments have been responding to big mad triggered sensitive boys who replied to that comment.

So if you really are from the wedding then I hope you're just still drunk, because a functional adult doesn't behave like that

What are you rambling about? This is the weakest personal insult I’ve ever encountered.

I'm honestly getting more and more upset and my comment still stands.

Get a fucking grip.

Now all the mods here are completely blue and that's a little upsetting, even though it's clear that this is because of reddit rules.

I’m not “blue.” I think identifying as any internet pill shit is silly and quite lame tbh.

I’m a realist.

[–]Cultural-Ad-84861 point 11 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The rest of my comments have been responding to big mad triggered sensitive boys who replied to that comment

And at the same time there are so many insults that for just one comment such a big RP would get a 10-day ban

This is the weakest personal insult I’ve ever encountered.

This is not an insult, but simply a statement of fact.

Get a fucking grip

You too

And you probably missed that I understand why the rules on the sub are so biased? And that I don't blame the mods as such

I’m not “blue.” I think identifying as any internet pill shit is silly and quite lame tb

Does this change anything? But yes, it does make everything worse, because the moderator of the subreddit with BlueP and RP audiences calls it all shit

I'm even more surprised because I also drank yesterday and I think I drank more than you, but for some reason even I have enough endurance to smear everyone with feces

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[–]GridReXXMEANIE LADY MOD ♀💁‍♀️ 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ViolentShallotRed Pill Man 5 points6 points7 points 11 months ago (39 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXMEANIE LADY MOD ♀💁‍♀️ 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (38 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SomerandomduderebornBottom 20% Man/It is what it is Pill 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXMEANIE LADY MOD ♀💁‍♀️ 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]happyfunball5Blue Sky pilled Man 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]AggressiveRabbit1530Chillpill Man[S] [score hidden] 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PurplePillDebate-ModTeam[M] 1 point2 points3 points 11 months agolocked comment (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXMEANIE LADY MOD ♀💁‍♀️ 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JustGeminiThingsBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alone_Ambition_3729Red Pill Man 10 points11 points12 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]OtPayOkerSmayRed Pill Man, Devil's Advocate 25 points26 points27 points 11 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mission-Jicama-8747 8 points9 points10 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]OtPayOkerSmayRed Pill Man, Devil's Advocate 8 points9 points10 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Desperate-Exit7423Purple Pill Man 19 points20 points21 points 11 months ago (47 children) | Copy Link

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[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

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I don’t know. I only started hanging around the sub, probably six months ago.

I’m not the most socially astute person, but it’s always been very clear that people prefer the most attractive. Men like the hottest women and women like the hottest and most charismatic men.

I feel like that was the education that I received alongside calculus while I was in high school - we were all in the social packing order and being horrible to one another and that’s how we all learned really how the opposite sex values us as a relationship companion or as a sex companion.

It was always very clear that the hottest skinniest girls were the ones who got all the attention, not the fat four-eye frumps.

It was also always clear that the tall athletic guys particularly with a bit of charm were the ones that the girls liked the most.

And as you went through that cauldron, you learned where you ranked.

The only notable difference I ever saw, was that a guy could get a +2 bonus on his attractiveness if he had a very good personality - like he was very funny or really talented. A good personality might help a girl a little bit, but not as much as a guy.

The cultural narrative was society, trying to tap down on this Lord of the flies mentality. There was a lot of social pressure on women (and I assume men, but I don’t know) that they better start looking at characteristics that are better for a long-term good relationship rather than just the flash or the outer wrapping.

This wasn’t a narrative that lied and said that women only value a nice guy, but instead, it was a narrative to encourage teens to control their genitalia and use some sense in selecting for good long-term characteristics.

The Hope was as we fully matured and developed executive function, we would stop going for the best looking possible on the outside.

For a woman like me, who was a basic Betty look wise, but offered a lot of other good long-term attributes, some guy would value that a little more and see me as the best package.

I feel like a lot of men here thought this meant that looks would no longer matter whatsoever and that some woman (who conveniently was very attractive) would just fall in their lap because he’s so sweet and he’s so nice. And I mean, this is something that men have been wishing for for a very long time - look at Cyrano de Bergerac, revenge of the nerds, or any Adam Sandler movie.

Looks always matter somewhat. We come to terms with us usually in high school. This is where I do. Think the isolation is really not serving our children well. It is far too easy for people to get out onto a computer game.

[–]Bulleveland 7 points8 points9 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ASnowfallOfCherry 6 points7 points8 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree somewhat. I have teen girls.

What strikes me is that teens have easy exits from the discomfort. I remember feeling like shit as a teen girl waaay low on the totem pole. I don’t want to minimize the pain involved for those who aren’t very attractive. But it’s like you have to go through that pain and get to the other side, accept where you are, and do the best you can. Now teens can avoid this painful process by disappearing into video games or porn or some “friend” on YouTube that shows you make up.

It shocks me how many men here want to be treated like Chads. Like you aren’t. That doesn’t mean you can’t find love but hot girls aren’t going to tear your clothes off. And that’s okay because you can build a nice relationship and get some nookie and no it won’t look like pornhub.

Nobody is flying me to Dubai on the drop of a hat.

[–]davebicycle69Red Pill Man 6 points7 points8 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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See, women aren’t allowed to mature or grow. They aren’t allowed to choose a less attractive man who is a better person because you’ll never believe that she’s as attracted to you as she was to some past boyfriend.

People do get into new phases of life. It’s hard to go party and fuck all night and then get up, get the kids out the door, and manage to deal with a shitty boss. And maybe the woman tried certain type of sex (me and anal) and it fucking hurt and they don’t want to do it. Shit slows down because we aren’t 18 anymore. But you’ll insist that that means that I don’t love or am not sexually attracted to my husband.

The part that kills me is that guys here will bitch that women aren’t attracted to a good value guy that will treat her so much better, but then you want her to treat you as if you are fucking Tom Cruise from the second she met you. You aren’t Tom Cruise.

You want to be Chad and you want women to lie to you.

Me, I’m not a Stacy. Nobody is going to fly me to Dubai at the drop of a hat. And? My now husband thought I was hot but he wasn’t going to turn himself in knots for a whiff of perfume. I’m not Stacy. But he saw me and we built something and had great monkey sex and he never worried about some person I dated five years before. We are normies playing by normie rules.

There are some people who are so so gorgeous that they have people willing to go to war. That isn’t me. That isn’t you. We can build a life filled with love and sex too, though. I did.

It’s men it seems to me that never mature. They want a girl that they find attractive to treat them as if they were the hottest guy ever from the moment she laid eyes on them. But they aren’t.

I’m not saying accept lack luster sex. I sure as fuck didn’t. But I knew that it’d take a little time to build up the respect and appreciation to reach love. My husband would fly me to Dubai tomorrow. I don’t worry about whether there was someone hotter in his past.

(Edited due to some typos)

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[–]TotalTravestyNo Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Unfortunately most men who struggle with dating are on the spectrum so they need more clear direct communication. Rule 1 and 2 should be the general dating advice.

Well unfortunately the world of discourse surrounding mainstream dating and social lives can’t take the time to check to make sure we’re including men on the spectrum. There are just certain things that neurotypical people understand and I promise you we’re not conspiring against you if we have conversations with that shared unspoken understanding.

It is denial, because every time a guy complains about being short and ugly, people are quick to gaslit him into thinking that it's his personality or attitude that's holding him back.

Please, it’s not “every time.” It’s just when the guy indicates personality and attitude defects in his complains. Around here, when you factor in the hostility, the misogyny, the obstinacy, the petulance, and the feckless anger, it would be almost irresponsible not to point out that personality defects are playing a factor.

Let me bottom line this as best as I can:

An attractive guy with no glaring personality flaws > an attractive guy with obvious red flags ~ a regular guy with regular personality traits (most of us are here) > an extraordinarily short/ugly guy who’s otherwise an excellent person >>>>>>>> a short/ugly guy who’s an asshole.

This is all a rough estimation based purely on my personal opinion so please don’t take this to the bank or raise a stink if other people believe differently.. My point is, unfortunately for a lot of Reddit incels, they’re bringing up the rear. Pointing out their asshole traits is in the hopes of at least moving them up to the next level.

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Because the norm for the past like two decades in online discourse has been that women are less shallow than men. That personality matters more to them, simplistically, with no caveats other than condescending “brush your teeth and take a shower” advice.

That the central reason a guy might struggle dating is because of his personality, rather than a more balanced realistic view. Notions that women are just as shallow as men, and in fact find a narrower proportion of men attractive were met with accusations of being an incel. That’s where the problem, the “shift” as OP stated comes from.

Now of course, these weren’t made in a vacuum, it was often in response to violently misogynistic RP arguments, which I understand.

But it had young men like me feeling like I was just a piece of shit, that something was “wrong” with me personality wise. When in reality I just needed to workout more, focus on my appearance and voila, my dating problems disappeared. I met my wife looking the best I’ve ever looked, and then my personality kept her. So imo personality absolutely matters to women, more than men, but not in the 1-sided way that a good portion of arguments framed it.

He didn’t make that argument in a vacuum, he didn’t just make it up. That’s been the popular opinion online.

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I mean I didn’t lol. I wasn’t around then but it is true that women care about more than looks. That doesn’t mean that we want to date someone who we find butt ugly, however we can grow strong attraction to someone who looks average but has a great personality. I would say that I’ve found myself saying “Attraction matters” and not expanding it when I’ve encountered incels say mess like “Only if you’re attractive” and stuff like that as if its a problem that women want to be attracted to their partners.

Women aren’t a monolith, so for some physical attraction is paramount but when I, personally, say that personality matters more I don’t mean that looks don’t matter at all. I just mean that if you look average to a woman, you can become more attractive if you have a good personality. If you’re butt ugly to her then yeah that probably wont happen regardless. I can only speak from my experience though.

The issue with a lot of you, Red Pills is that you think that Blue Pills are hive minds and we must always be in sync with the same opinions and experiences or else we’re contradicting ourselves. Its not a contradiction to say something different from the next person because we’re two different people.

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I agree that there are many women on both sides. I have seen so many unattractive men, in my opinion, who are in relationships. My father is 5’1, and has a lazy eye. Yet he has never had a problem attracting women, including women taller than him, because of how funny and charming he is. Not to mention, he’s an awful person behind the superficial charm. That’s just one example.

Now of course pretty privilege is a thing. Conventionally attractive people of all genders get away with more than everyone else. Jack O’Connell’s personality doesn’t matter much because he’s hot lol, but I don’t think that means that personality doesn’t matter. Nor do I think that its helpful for less attractive people to focus on how more attractive people are treated better. Its a fact of life. Its best to work within your own strengths

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