Weekly Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2021-05-24T20:00:19+00:00

This weekly thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc......

[–]trail22 [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Getting older is so weird. It's one of thse things you have to experience, not that I am getting that old. Things like your body not healing or having reoccurring injuries.

I used to go to the gym to help with dating. Now its more that I dont want to be the weird , fat creepy lonely single guy/uncle.

My cousin last night joked saying my uncles were asking if I was gay. When I was younger that would have been a little offensive but now. Well that's better then the truth of never beign able to get a date.

Its actually a compliment to now to have people tell me I should try online dating. Last night was the first time I confessed to a friend that I had been trying. Probably messaged more then a thousand women on more then 20 sites going back to the early 2000's. Not to mention all the research and opinions I would try to get on my profile during that time. I just never say anything because I dont want people to know the depth of my failure. Better people think I am lazy and never try then to tell them how much I have tried.

[–]angels-fan10 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trail224 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girl3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trail221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OddAlternatives2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trail221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OddAlternatives1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trail221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OddAlternatives1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trail221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PickleLine2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trail222 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trail221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bandit1740 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trail221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Banned_BY_SOYMEN [score hidden] 5 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]PickleLineSimp for Low N-Count women [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]geyges0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blu1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]passepar2t [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Banned_BY_SOYMEN [score hidden] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]passepar2t [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Banned_BY_SOYMEN [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SonicBackScratcher1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]passepar2t2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SonicBackScratcher1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thatguyfromrichmond [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Banned_BY_SOYMEN [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Banned_BY_SOYMEN [score hidden] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girl1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Banned_BY_SOYMEN [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girl2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha001 [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SonicBackScratcher1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilSentient penis with arms and legs [score hidden] 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slyfer_Seven [score hidden] 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]n3waccount2020 [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Slyfer_Seven [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilSentient penis with arms and legs [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slyfer_Seven [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]thatguyfromrichmond [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilSentient penis with arms and legs [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slyfer_Seven [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilSentient penis with arms and legs [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]death_by_1000_catsrisky vagina lifestyle [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girl3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings [score hidden] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girl1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan [score hidden] 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blu1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Squiddy-the-wisebe civil🙃 [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Squiddy-the-wisebe civil🙃 [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (45 children) | Copy Link

[–]thatguyfromrichmond [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife [score hidden] 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]geyges🐇 [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]geyges🐇 [score hidden] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]geyges🐇 [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CanisLupisAutism2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 [score hidden] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha001 [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]unholymunchkin3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]geyges🐇 [score hidden] 5 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]Siukslinis_acc [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha001 [score hidden] 5 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha001 [score hidden] 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha001 [score hidden] 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha001 [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blu5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blu3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha001 [score hidden] 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha001 [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]md8716pp theorist [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]md8716pp theorist [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]md87160 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington [score hidden] 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]thatguyfromrichmond [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Banned_BY_SOYMEN [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anxious_Economist_65 [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nemporisso [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anxious_Economist_65 [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RepresentativeSwan14 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blu3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 [score hidden] 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]thatguyfromrichmond [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nemporisso [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red [score hidden] 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Not counting working for $3/hr on our neighbor's farm as a 13-14-year-old. My first "real" job was as a loader operator in a log home factory when I was 15 (no one ever checked ID in Alberta back then). Almost killed myself when I caused a stack of 30 foot long logs to crash down on my loader. I also put a fork through a factory wall trying to unstick a log that jammed on the conveyor. Guess there's a reason most places don't let dumb kids use heavy equipment.

The next summer I worked in the Swan Hills oil fields. By the end of the first month I was a crew chief (again no one ever asked for any ID). Almost got taken out by a fully loaded tandem axle gravel truck that was sliding sideways on a muddy road -- had to drive my truck off the road to avoid a collision.

The next summer I operated Cat 950 and 966 loaders in a gravel pit (no near-death experiences that summer).

[–]MasterTeacher123 [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]reluctantly_red [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]death_by_1000_catsrisky vagina lifestyle [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Little_Cheesecake3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]owta_this_world [score hidden] 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]PickleLineSimp for Low N-Count women [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bandit174🖤 [score hidden] 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I do think it is easier to learn new skills and that there are good tutorials to be found online if you look for them. That being said it creates more competition and by definition most people can't be above average which is what I think people want. Every attribute or skill whether its wealth, IQ, physical attractiveness, programming, writing art whatever has a hierarchy and we all want to be in the upper end in the hierarchies we perceive as important but we can't all be above average so there are a limited number of seats and there will always be components of luck that impact whether you make it or not.

That said, I do agree that most if not all of those self-help gurus are hacks. They make more money from their courses, endorsements and YouTube videos than they do actually implementing any of the strategies they teach.

[–]lulll [score hidden] 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tritter211Pragmatic [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin [score hidden] 5 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilSentient penis with arms and legs [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChaddamhuseinPost body before calling me an incel [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChaddamhuseinPost body before calling me an incel [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Chaddamhusein1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]owta_this_world [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]QuenchlessGato [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]passepar2t [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]tritter211Pragmatic [score hidden] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SonicBackScratcherGreen Eyed Devil [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NarniaFox [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LeJacquelope1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]death_by_1000_catsrisky vagina lifestyle [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Siukslinis_acc [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]QuenchlessGato [score hidden] 5 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link

[–]NiceGuyNumber4 [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]BackgroundAd88 [score hidden] 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

[–]QuenchlessGato [score hidden] 5 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rosesonthefloor [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]geyges🐇 [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]geyges🐇 [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Squiddy-the-wisebe civil🙃 [score hidden] 5 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]xQueen-Bxyeah whatever [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington [score hidden] 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington [score hidden] 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blu1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CanisLupisAutism1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Squiddy-the-wisebe civil🙃 [score hidden] 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Squiddy-the-wisebe civil🙃 [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Squiddy-the-wise1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blu0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]QuenchlessGato [score hidden] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]QuenchlessGato [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jax00615 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson6 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jax0062 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChibsFilipTelfordd2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sage_Planter5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

When we first started dating, my ex seemed to be quite clean. The house he was living in (with roommates) was relatively tidy, and he seemed to prioritize chores every week. His place wasn't show home spotless (mine isn't either), but there were no red flags that he wasn't clean or anything. All signs pointed to "he can take care of a home and will be a tidy roommate."

Fast forward to us moving in, and I was taking on 85%+ of the household work (while finances were 50/50). It was a huge source of frustration for me and ultimately why I felt relief more than anything after the breakup. He was fine about doing "his" chores (tidying his desk, doing his laundry, cleaning up after making himself a snack....), but he was completely checked out of "our" chores (scrubbing toilets, washing towels, cleaning the fridge, vacuuming..). During our last big talk about this, his excuse was "he didn't know what had to get done," but he neither asked nor took initiative to do anything on his own. It was pathetic.

[–][deleted]4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jax0067 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GridReXX4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]death_by_1000_cats4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This. A lot of this doesn't become apparent until you are living together. Especially since a lot of young guys live with roommates so if you do go over to his place and it's messy he has the convenient excuse of "Ugh sorry my roommate is such a slob."

Plus, there's a sort of creep that happens once a couple lives together and especially after they get married. Whether men will admit it or not, a lot of them (especially of a certain class and/or ethnicity) have a mental model that says certain tasks are "wife's work." (And tbf a lot of women operate under that mental model too and start picking up those duties and then play martyr about it.)

And also, frankly, I've literally never met a man who wasn't gross. I don't know where these mythical clean men live, I believe they exist somewhere but it's not my conservative working class universe. From the time I was a little girl I just figured cleaning up after men was a fact of life as a woman and I've not yet encountered a man who made me rethink that notion. My husband actually does laundry and notices when the floor needs to be vacuumed which is more than any of the men I grew up with ever did so I feel like I won the lottery.

[–]ChibsFilipTelfordd1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]death_by_1000_cats2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That was not the case in my house growing up; my mom did all the yardwork. The yard was considered "house" and thus the wife's domain. Same for my grandparents.

We don't have gutters here so cleaning gutters is not a thing anybody does.

I'll give you cars, that's husband stuff. Although tbh we just take ours to the oil change place every couple months. Checking the oil takes ten seconds and I do it myself. I think I've had to change one tire in the last ten years (and yes, my husband did that). This is not exactly comparable to day to day household stuff.

I've noticed there's a lot of creep, too. Somehow clogged sinks and toilets that are ostensibly dirty man jobs eventually get folded into the wife's workload.

A lot of this is also skewed by people living in apartments. We rent, so the landlord takes care of the landscaping and home maintenance. Unfortunately he doesn't do our cooking and cleaning. So there's really less opportunity for man chores.

[–]QuenchlessGato3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ohheyhi992 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]QuenchlessGato0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ohheyhi992 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CanisLupisAutism2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CanisLupisAutism1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]superlurkage3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jax0061 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]superlurkage0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jax0062 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]superlurkage-1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CanisLupisAutism1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChibsFilipTelfordd1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]superlurkage3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Eh, I think incels are fine because they at least have some relevant experience and perspective, even if that experience is just "desiring" or "trying and failing." Their lack of real-world experience can sometimes lead them to strange conclusions that they assert with unearned authority, which can be frustrating, but I think they at least have something to contribute to the sub.

But an asexual posting on PPD is like someone who doesn't own dogs and has no interest in owning dogs going to r/dogs and replying to every post with "Not everyone likes dogs, you know." Like, okay, what are you doing here then? Go talk about something you're actually interested in and let the people interested in THIS topic talk about it without asking them to make your lack of interest part of the conversation. It's bizarre.

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Here's another thing about the sociosexual ballfield as you get older: the normalization, expectation even, that u have kids, and the way that this is not considered a problem or "deal-breaker" the way it is in your twenties.

About a year ago, I guess, I had this conversation. We had a new social worker at my workplace, and she says:

HER: So, do you have any kids?

ME: Yeah, I have X amount of kids.

HER: And do they live in the same place as you? (I can't remember if this was exactly how she phrased it but it was sthg like this)

ME: (thinking, wtf kind of a question is this) Uh.... yeah, of course they do??? Wat?

But I realized afterwards, especially if you're in the business of counseling or whatever, this is probably a pretty normal question to ask, nowadays, by no means assuming that anyone's kids automatically live with them. Which is why she asked it in such a weird-but-clearly-routine fashion.

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Canada has actually drifted further from the US over the last 50 years or so starting with the election of Pierre Trudeau in 1968. Prior to the senior Trudeau Canada was actually more conservative than the USA. Canada's response to the Great Depression in the 1930s was much more muted than that of the USA. There was no Canadian New Deal.

Starting with the election of Richard Nixon in 1968 the USA embarked on a decades-long retreat from New Deal policies and ideas. At the same time Canada was leap-frogging the USA by enacting policies even more progressive than the New Deal.

This divergence has continued in fits and starts. Today Canada is a far more liberal progressive place than it was in 1968. In many ways, the USA is less progressive than it was in 1968. Basically, there was a reversal in the relative political positions of the two counties over the last 50 years.

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This is 100% true, and very interesting, and all the more interesting in view of the way that it's another memory-holed part of our history that few people today are aware of.

E.g., as a hot-button topic, something that many culture-warriors would be shocked to hear is that Canada legalized abortion a good 15 years AFTER the USA did with Roe v Wade.

I could have a conversation as long as your arm about Canada's past and its future, and I don't have time, except to say that I don't necessarily see the US and Canada drifting back together either - if only because of the demographics.

Time was when my dad would hitchhike across the border as a teenager and hang out with white kids like him in Virginia all summer, no problem. Nowadays I notice whenever I consume American media it's looking more Mexican by the year, whereas most of our immigrants are Indian and Chinese.

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Guys autism can totally be mitigated, there's hope.

This happened to me this morning. I go into work, and on my office door there's a HAPPY BIRTHDAY message.

My instinctual autist-brain starts thinking, wtf is this, it's not my birthday, my birthday is not till the weekend, and in any case I don't even like these sorts of celebrations, I don't like "happy birthdays", gifts, why would they do this, I don't want it.

Then my training kicks in, and inner voice starts saying, listen, you can't be like that, that might be how you feel but you've gotta understand that normies are going to be offended if you act like that; the best thing to do is just to smile and say "thank you" like you've seen other people do.

In other words, autists who can harness the power of mimicry can do very well even if they never really understand the purpose of normie pleasantries.

Remember the most important rule: when in doubt, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.

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Not for long and not officially. I've also had a time where I was a working from home parent where I had to work and parent. Last year when they started closing schools. Had a lot of trouble with boss being asked to accept my lower productivity by the government, but he would try to pressure me into working more, into stealing my paid leaves, ect... was kind of a shitty time.

It's annoying being taught by your wife that parenting is not for her. Seeing how much compromises I had to do for the first one despite I was the breawinner, literally I was doing 90% of the parenting (getting up, getting son prepared, putting him to daycare, going to work, hurrying after work to get him back, dealing with babysitters, cooking and washing son then putting him to bed...) So when she wanted the second one, I told her I don't want a second kid if she's not ready to compromise her job by doing part time or something.

Now she has compromised her job a bit, because we couldn't find daycare for the first year we decided she'd be a SAHM for a year. And she's told me it's not for her, that it's easier to work, ect... I can't stress how fucking annoying this is to hear, when she married you and you earn more than her, you ruin your health at your job more than her, you're under more stress than her, so you have a full blown masculine role and you satisfy her hypergamy. But she turns around and says she doesn't like womaning all that much, and she breaks her promise to do efforts by putting just more work and stress on my shoulders. In few months I'll have 2 kids to put to school before my job starts, and then I'll have to hurry fetch them back after my job.

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But I think women don’t naturally trust each other. Could be evolutionary where every woman is a potential threat to the commitment of her offsprings father. At the same time, women had to cooperate with each other because 1) they had to be mutually invested in the collective survival of the next generation which meant supporting each other and 2) they had to provide the diplomatic compliment to men who just killed everything that got in their way. Which lead to a situation where women evolved to be incredibly cooperative with each other while simultaneously hating each other.

Like a woman will talk shit about her friend when she isn’t around but will drop everything in a heartbeat to help her out. Men see this as being two faced, women do not. I can be annoyed at the way my friend constantly brags about her ugly kids on social media and say so but not hesitate to empty out my life savings to help her when her ugly kid is diagnosed with leukemia.

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Ok but again. You have to admit there are men who do not like big women and will be ruthless with their peers who date them.

Or take the example of a guy who wants to date outside his race and his peers don’t accept it.

This isn’t a who is worse argument. I’m just saying the idea that you let your friends judge and sign off on your dating choices is correlated to youth. The older you get the less you care.

I think of FSM as more the structure of female social groups, the norms and values that are imposed, the points you score for conforming or not conforming, etc.

Like my “matrix” is close friends, co workers and professional associates, women in my community (UMC suburban moms) and women in my family. Some of those values and norms are different and going to conflict but there are most certainly ground rules for each quadrant I can follow or not follow with varying results.

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You’re hamstering hard but you and I both know I called you on your shit.

Nope, and not even close.

Having sex isn’t a crime. Nor is it related to any crime committed against you.

And see.. that is a classic strawman. Let me refresh you on it, since it seems to be your go-to argument.

an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

I specifically said 'It's not about who is a greater sexual deviant', and instead explained how it's about reliability of testimony 'If there's a history of lying, deceit, false testimonies, false accusations, etc...'.

You conveniently skipped those to insert your own, slightly altered, narrative, and then claimed they were my assertions. After 'disproving' YOUR altered version of my argument, you then claim 'I called you on your shit'. Nope, you called YOURSELF on YOUR OWN shit.

I'd go through the rest of your post... but clearly you have no intention of arguing against my points, rather you seem to be quite enthralled to argue your own... So have at it, your intellectual masterbation hardly needs my contribution.

[–]poppy_blu5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha0010 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

the accuser is not on trial the accused is.

I know, which is funny that you posted:

In the Us prior convictions are generally not admissible unless directly related to the crime you’re on trial for. Nor are behaviors that aren’t crimes that you just happen to disapprove of.

I mean I was gonna gloss over that but... you really wanted to bring it up.

Don’t give me more butthurt rambling, just answer the question.

Yawn...

How many times do I have to repeat it? Rape shield laws prohibit using unrelated sexual history to discredit the accuser. the accuser is not on trial the accused is.

Rape shield laws prevent more than just sexual history, they are so broadly defined that nearly any attempt to discredit a witness can be buried away.

When there isn't evidence, it comes down to who's testimony is more reliable. And in that case past history does matter.

Do you know what due process means?

fair treatment through the normal judicial system, especially as a citizen's entitlement

[–]poppy_blu5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We’re going in circles because you fundamentally don’t understand how the legal system works.

the accuser is not on trial the accused is.

I know, which is funny that you posted:

In the Us prior convictions are generally not admissible unless directly related to the crime you’re on trial for. Nor are behaviors that aren’t crimes that you just happen to disapprove of.

I mean I was gonna gloss over that but... you really wanted to bring it up.

How are those two contradictory? Explain. (You won’t)

Rape shield laws prevent more than just sexual history, they are so broadly defined that nearly any attempt to discredit a witness can be buried away.

Source please

When there isn't evidence, it comes down to who's testimony is more reliable. And in that case past history does matter.

Not how it works. The Us legal system is not based on whoever is the better person wins the case. Its proving beyond a reasoanble doubt that the defendant is guilty of the crime s/he is accused of. In a criminal case the victim isn’t even the plaintiff, it’s the state. Where the fuck are you from? I’m trying to understand where you picked up these strange ideas about how the legal system works.

Unrelated facts are not admissible for the 10th time. If you were mugged and your cash stolen, the defense can’t argue that your mugger was not guilty because they have proof you frequently spent a lot of money in the past (so you MUST have given it to him willingly and now you’re just lying)

That a woman has had sex before doesn’t make the accused innocent. Unless you believe a woman owes a man sex because she gave it to someone else, which you claimed you aren’t insinuating.

fair treatment through the normal judicial system, especially as a citizen's entitlement

LOL, you just googled that and copied the first thing that came up. Smh

[–]Kaisha0010 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We’re going in circles because you fundamentally don’t understand how the legal system works.

You're going in circles because you keep trying to strawman me, claim I said or argued things that, in fact, I did not. I've been on point, and my argument hasn't changed since the very beginning. And before you claim otherwise, remember, it's all above in black and white.

How are those two contradictory? Explain. (You won’t)

I did, but apparently I have to do it a second time?

You originally said:

In the Us prior convictions are generally not admissible unless directly related to the crime you’re on trial for. Nor are behaviors that aren’t crimes that you just happen to disapprove of.

This applies solely to the accused. Rape shield laws apply to the prosecution's witness(s) (usually the victim), not the accused. So why bring this up as a 'gotcha' / counter argument? It's a classic non-sequitur, makes no sense.

Then you said:

the accuser is not on trial the accused is.

Which is exactly what I was going to put as a counter argument for your above assertion. I instead showed how your prior argument was a classic strawman, in the vain hopes that you would stop using them, but it is amusing watching you torpedo your own arguments.

In a criminal case the victim isn’t even the plaintiff, it’s the state.

I never said they were. You keep imagining things, then arguing against them, then getting angry at yourself over it. It really is amusing.

I’m trying to understand where you picked up these strange ideas about how the legal system works.

Well see... you imagine things that don't exist, argue against arguments that were never made, then refuse to admit it. So in order to make up the difference you then have to come up with even more ridiculous leaps of logic. Rinse and repeat a few times and things get quite strange.

That a woman has had sex before doesn’t make the accused innocent. Unless you believe a woman owes a man sex because she gave it to someone else, which you claimed you aren’t insinuating.

See... you CAN recognize a strawman. We're making progress.

LOL, you just googled that and copied the first thing that came up. Smh

I did, you asked for the definition, I gave it to you. Sorry if the quote thingy messed up, sometimes it acts funny with multiple quote in succession.

[–]poppy_blu3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’ll explain it like you’re a child.

There are two parties in a criminal trial: the state and the defendant. The victim of the crime is often called as a witness. The defense often tries to build up their case that their client is innocent by calling into question a witness’ credibility. In most states and the federal court system, however, they are only permitted to enter in this evidence if it is directly related to the charges.

For example:

Would likely be admissible: texts found on the accusers phone to the accused referring to the incident as consensual

Would not be admissible: witness previously accused a man of rape but the charges were dropped. This is circumstantial and does not prove the accused is innocent.

Would not be admissible per rape shield laws: witness went out several weekends prior and picked up men and had sex with them. That has no bearing on the accused alleged actions. Since you so strongly disagree; I’d like to know why.

Definitely would not be admissible: witness doesn’t adhere to standards of random men who are virgin worshippers so that makes her a bAd pErsOn.

Rape shield laws address using unrelated sexual history in attempt to discredit an accuser and make the jury think she’s a bad person and therefor must be is lying, must have asked for it by being sexually available to other men, etc.

There can be no logical rational argument against rape shield laws that is not based in archaic biases about women’s sexuality and male entitlement to sex. You’ve had 10 comments to make a case as to why you believe there is and you haven’t done it.

“The accuser is not on trial. The accused is.”

Your so focused on the accuser and the need for her life to be on trial but have nothing to say about the accused.

If you think the accusers history should be on trial then I guess the accused’s should be too (even though that’s not how legal system works). If he committed previous crimes, if he cheated on his wife or his taxes, if he ate a peanut butter and jelly sandwich yesterday (about as malicious as having sex), I guess he should also ... what was it? “Be held accountable?” Correct?

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’ll explain it like you’re a child.

You've made all the logical and factual mistakes up to this point. I've even quoted and spelled out in detail where you made them, and you accuse me of misunderstanding??

There is something seriously wrong with you.

There are two parties in a criminal trial: the state and the defendant. The victim of the crime is often called as a witness. The defense often tries to build up their case that their client is innocent by calling into question a witness’ credibility. In most states and the federal court system, however, they are only permitted to enter in this evidence if it is directly related to the charges.

Funny, it's almost as if I said this already... oh wait I did.

Rape shield laws apply to the prosecution's witness(s) (usually the victim), not the accused.

At this point I'm pretty certain you're not reading what I wrote, and instead just imaging some weird fabrication of reality.

Rape shield laws address using unrelated sexual history in attempt to discredit an accuser and make the jury think she’s a bad person and therefor must be is lying, must have asked for it by being sexually available to other men, etc.

In other situations isn't a witnesses testimony under scrutiny via past actions? Why is it necessary for rape to be singled out?

There can be no logical rational argument against rape shield laws that is not based in archaic biases about women’s sexuality and male entitlement to sex.

Sure, there are many. Here's a very simple one (and again, one of MANY). The defendant might be a female...

You’ve had 10 comments to make a case as to why you believe there is and you haven’t done it.

At this point what you're saying is so divorced from reality that its impossible to form a coherent counterargument. TBH I don't even know what your argument is at this point.

Your so focused on the accuser and the need for her life to be on trial but have nothing to say about the accused.

Again this strawman nonsense. At no point did I say either was a specific gender. Isn't it inherently sexist to assume that only men can be rapists?

If you think the accusers history should be on trial then I guess the accused’s should be too (even though that’s not how legal system works). If he committed previous crimes, if he cheated on his wife or his taxes, if he ate a peanut butter and jelly sandwich yesterday (about as malicious as having sex), I guess he should also ... what was it? “Be held accountable?” Correct?

And again we're back to fantasy world.

[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You’re insinuating/asking two different things, and linking them weakly

Of course it was

No, it wasn’t. That hashtag was a social movement designed to push people to give accusers the benefit of the doubt. It was never aimed at changing laws - there are lobbyists and entire systems of government that have to be influenced for that

Why specifically was that crime singled out

Because defense lawyers were very specifically using background information that they did not use for other crimes

When is the last time you heard a defense lawyer argue that a man deserved to be mugged because he once bought a refrigerator in cash, years ago? Or that a man deserved to be beaten because he was wearing a short sleeved shirt that showed off his arm muscles, tempting the assailant into testing his strength man-to-man?

Sexual assault cases have been prosecuted differently, so the laws surrounding the accuser have to be different

And, frankly, part of it goes back to sexual assault being historically considered a property crime against the father/husband, not against the victim. Other violent crimes don’t have that history

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, it wasn’t. That hashtag was a social movement designed to push people to give accusers the benefit of the doubt.

Accusers shouldn't get the 'benefit of the doubt'. All people involved should be under equal scrutiny. Giving the accuser special privileges (regardless of gender) is something I adamantly disagree with. It undermines due process.

It was never aimed at changing laws - there are lobbyists and entire systems of government that have to be influenced for that

Of course is was aimed at changing laws, it was specifically designed to influence government.

When is the last time you heard a defense lawyer argue that a man deserved to be mugged because he once bought a refrigerator in cash, years ago? Or that a man deserved to be beaten because he was wearing a short sleeved shirt that showed off his arm muscles, tempting the assailant into testing his strength man-to-man?

See, we were having a decent discussion and now you're headed off into poppy territory. When did I suggest anything of the sort? No one's saying anyone 'deserves' to be the victim of a crime, but past history does play into the accuracy and reputation of a witness/accuser.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_shield_law

Many states do not permit any evidence relating to the past sexual behaviour of the victim. This encompasses evidence of specific instances of the victim's prior or subsequent sexual conduct including opinion evidence or reputation evidence.

Whether they like to be pegged, spanked, or are into BDSM doesn't matter; but corroborating a persons statement, and their history is important when it comes to weighing the authenticity/accuracy of a statement/testimonial.

Now I don't have specific examples on hand, I don't save all the links to all the things I've read. But it is not a 'weak link' or ridiculous assertion to suggest that feminists pushing for even stronger rape shield laws will lead to a situation where the accused is 'guilty until proven innocent'.

This isn't a massive stretch or huge leap of logic, many feminists believe that all men are rapists, and that even all consensual sex is rape (because men hold the power, and power dynamics, and patriarchy, and blah blah blah...). We even have many of them pushing for massively reduced sentencing or even removal of female prisons because they feel that all men are perpetrators and all women victims.

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Accusers shouldn’t get the ‘benefit of the doubt’

You’re confusing the defendant and the accuser, and mixing up public opinion vs actual court responsibilities

Giving the accuser special privileges (regardless of gender) is something I adamantly disagree with. It undermines due process

The accuser has no special privileges. The only thing that is different is that defense lawyers are no longer able to bring up things that have nothing to do with the crime

Which actually levels the playing field, as neither can prosecutors. They can’t bring up past crimes, unless it is directly related to the crime the defendant on trial for

Of course is was aimed at changing laws, it was specifically designed to influence government

Do you actually believe that some of the most powerful men in the world (and let’s be honest, most of the government is male) would change laws based on a social media hashtag? They fought changing a state flag to remove the confederate battle flag

past history does play into the accuracy and reputation of a witness accuser

reputation evidence

You realize why that’s not legal, right? Because reputations are not always based on fact

Every HS on earth had a rumor about some girl masterbating with hot dogs - should that be allowed at trial?

Rape shield laws would allow a defense to introduce an accuser’s proven pattern of false accusations. It would not allow a defense to introduce “well, Becky told Stacey who told Joe who told me over drinks”

many feminists believe that all men are rapists

No, they don’t

In fact, if you look at the press releases of NOW - arguably the feminist organization that exists today - you’ll find such shocking things as a push for women to have to sign up for the draft

Stop taking rage porn seriously

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The accuser has no special privileges. The only thing that is different is that defense lawyers are no longer able to bring up things that have nothing to do with the crime

These laws are so poorly/ambiguously worded that they include things that actually have to do with the crime.

This encompasses evidence of specific instances of the victim's prior or subsequent sexual conduct including opinion evidence or reputation evidence.

You asked for a link from a more reputable source than 'I read it before but don't remember where it came from', so there ya go. It says exactly what I just said. That rape laws 'encompasses evidence' which can affect 'reputation evidence'. Or otherwise known as Character Evidence.

Do you actually believe that some of the most powerful men in the world (and let’s be honest, most of the government is male) would change laws based on a social media hashtag? They fought changing a state flag to remove the confederate battle flag

Of course. They do all the time. Anything that gets them votes, and feminism is en-vogue now so they'll put through any law they think will get the most female voters.

Seriously though, men are not some cartel, the patriarchy doesn't exist. Imagine if it did, it'd be laughably ineffective...

Rape shield laws would allow a defense to introduce an accuser’s proven pattern of false accusations. It would not allow a defense to introduce “well, Becky told Stacey who told Joe who told me over drinks”

It depends on how you read them, and which ones we are talking about. If feminists had their way it certainly would prevent the defense from introducing 'an accuser’s proven pattern of false accusations'.

In fact, if you look at the press releases of NOW - arguably the feminist organization that exists today - you’ll find such shocking things as a push for women to have to sign up for the draft

What does this have to do with rape?

[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

include things that actually have to do with the crime

Such as? Can you cite an actual law that doesn’t allow evidence that is directly linked to the crime?

Character Evidence

Did you even read your link?

Character evidence is also admissible in a criminal trial if offered by a defendant as circumstantial evidence—through reputation or opinion evidence—to show an alleged victim's "pertinent" character trait—for example, to support defendant's claim of self-defense to a charge of homicide.[10]

After a criminal defendant introduces evidence of the victim's character, the prosecution may then introduce its own character evidence to rebut the defendant's character evidence by showing its side's impression of the victim's character, or to attack the character of the defendant through evidence that shows that defendant had the same character trait he or she accused the victim of having.[11]

The admissibility of character evidence to allow defendant to prove the character trait of a victim is limited, however, if the lawsuit is for rape or assault with the intent to commit rape. If the reputation or opinion evidence is being offered by the defendant to show the rape victim's past sexual conduct, character evidence is inadmissible. [13] In such sexual misconduct cases, a defendant may offer "evidence of specific instances of a victim’s sexual behavior" only to show that someone other than the defendant was the source of "semen, injury, or other physical evidence," or to show that the victim had consented to sexual behavior with the defendant.

There is nothing contradictory there. A woman’s sexual history and reputation have nothing to do with her saying no in one specific incident, so it’s not admissible

It is admissible if you can prove that she’s lied about being raped in the past, though. Because it’s directly linked to the crime the defendant is accused of

Similarly, if a court found that someone tried to claim self defense to justify murder, a future victim’s family would be allowed to introduce that

They do all the time

So you think that a group of the most powerful men on the planet are voting against their best interests?

Some of the manosphere victim complex borders on paranoia, honestly

the patriarchy doesn’t exist

So you don’t think that men historically benefited from being the sole gender in power? How else do you explain rape being historically considered a property crime?

What, exactly, do you object to with rape shield laws? Because you’re starting to come across like you think any woman who has ever had sex can’t be raped

I’m not jumping to that conclusion, but between refusing to cite actual laws (not Wiki) and precedents, and the implications of not objecting to “but but but her she had sex with Billy 5 years ago, so she couldn’t possibly have been raped” are starting to paint an unflattering picture of your beliefs

Can you explain why you think someone’s past history of consensual sex has any bearing on a rape trial?

I mean, hell, I agree with you on a history of false rape claims. That should be brought up. But past consensual sex? What does that have to do with anything?

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Did you even read your link?

Yes... and the part you quote was the part that we're debating about. Hence the STRONG LINK as opposed to your assertion of a WEAK LINK. You even quoted the relevant part and missed the whole point.

The last phrase (referring to source [13]) links to https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_412. It even says on that page:

Rule 412 has been revised to diminish some of the confusion engendered by the original rule and to expand the protection afforded alleged victims of sexual misconduct. Rule 412 applies to both civil and criminal proceedings. The rule aims to safeguard the alleged victim against the invasion of privacy, potential embarrassment and sexual stereotyping that is associated with public disclosure of intimate sexual details and the infusion of sexual innuendo into the factfinding process.

This is exactly what I was talking about, exactly to the point, and exactly what I was complaining about. I feel that the rape shield laws cover too large a swath, are too ambiguously defined, and allow unscrupulous people to take advantage of them, such that they undermine rule of law.

You may disagree with your reading of the Rape Shield laws and their affect, which is fine (politicians, lawyers, and judges disagree on the reading and implications of the law all the time, often for years on end). But stop this shit where you try to pretend I said something I did not. Stop with the strawman arguments. I've been clear and precise every step of the way.

What, exactly, do you object to with rape shield laws? Because you’re starting to come across like you think any woman who has ever had sex can’t be raped

The same thing I've said since the very beginning...

It's not about who is a greater sexual deviant, but when it comes down to who's word to believe, the past does matter. If there's a history of lying, deceit, false testimonies, false accusations, etc... the court needs to know. People should be held responsible for their actions, both genders.

and again:

I specifically said 'It's not about who is a greater sexual deviant', and instead explained how it's about reliability of testimony 'If there's a history of lying, deceit, false testimonies, false accusations, etc...'.

and again:

Rape shield laws prevent more than just sexual history, they are so broadly defined that nearly any attempt to discredit a witness can be buried away.

and here's more of the same:

There are many different versions of the 'rape shield' laws presented, but they all use ambiguous language that would prevent nearly any type of actual cross examination.

and again, to wrap it all up:

I feel that the rape shield laws cover too large a swath, are too ambiguously defined, and allow unscrupulous people to take advantage of them, such that they undermine rule of law.

I don't know how many more ways I can say the same thing. How many more times I need to repeat myself before you actually read what is written? I mean at this point, how is it possible to honestly ask 'What, exactly, do you object to with rape shield laws?'? I spelled it out 5 different times...

I’m not jumping to that conclusion, but between refusing to cite actual laws (not Wiki) and precedents, and the implications of not objecting to “but but but her she had sex with Billy 5 years ago, so she couldn’t possibly have been raped” are starting to paint an unflattering picture of your beliefs

Oh FFS... You and poppy have not presented single shred of evidence to back up ANY of your accusations. NOT ONE. All you do is sit back and make baseless accusation after accusation.

Clearly, there's no other interpretation than I must want to rape and assault every woman I come across. /sarcasm

How bout for once, you actually meet the standard of evidence that you require of others? For ANY of your claims.

Can you explain why you think someone’s past history of consensual sex has any bearing on a rape trial?

I'm not answering another strawman assertion.

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have been clear and precise

You have not. This is the first time you have linked something solid. And even there, it is not a law or precedent, it’s a discussion of the intention of the law

You have yet to put forth a concrete example of a law or precedent that you object to

You are not being clear at all. You say you object to a victim’s consensual history - insofar as it has nothing to do with the alleged crime - being protected, but will not explain why

You hamster something about “it’s not about who is the greater sexual deviant,” but that is the straw man. No one cares about sexual deviancy here, it’s about consent

You and poppy have not presented a single shred of evidence

I’m making no claims, I’m asking you to back up yours. You refuse to do so, and just regurgitate manosphere rage porn speaking points

Give me something concrete. Link me a law or precedent

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You have not.

6 different times now, I stated my premise. You didn't 'misread' it, you ignored it to push your agenda.

This is the first time you have linked something solid. And even there, it is not a law or precedent, it’s a discussion of the intention of the law

If only that level of proof were required of all BP talking points. I wonder, will you hold poppy to the same standard? Ms. Blades? Grid? Yourself?

And of course it's a discussion of the intention of the law, that is exactly what I was talking about, the intention of the Rape Shield laws and their side effects.

You have yet to put forth a concrete example of a law or precedent that you object to

I have exceeded the level of proof that you or Poppy have given me. The onus is now on you...

You say you object to a victim’s consensual history - insofar as it has nothing to do with the alleged crime - being protected, but will not explain why

6 times I have... I think that is sufficient.

I’m making no claims, I’m asking you to back up yours. You refuse to do so, and just regurgitate manosphere rage porn speaking points

You have repeatedly made claims, and backed none, simply regurgitated feminist rage porn speaking points.

Give me something concrete. Link me a law or precedent

You've leveled assertion after assertion, all which have been rebuffed, and we're back to square one; and had you actually bothered to engage me in a civil manner, we could've had a good discussion. I might have even spent the time to find an example or two.

But I don't take kindly to accusations that I condone rape, or whatever you want to call this shit:

Because you’re starting to come across like you think any woman who has ever had sex can’t be raped

the implications of not objecting to “but but but her she had sex with Billy 5 years ago, so she couldn’t possibly have been raped” are starting to paint an unflattering picture of your beliefs

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

https://wiki.harvard.edu/confluence/display/GNME/RAPE+VICTIM+SHIELD+LAWS+AND+THE+SIXTH+AMENDMENT

We reluctantly conclude that some rape victim shield laws violate the sixth amendment right to defend oneself.

Seems some people at Harvard disagree with you.

A state is constitutionally prohibited from enacting a rape victim shield law that limits a defendant's ability to introduce otherwise admissible evidence. The sixth amendment rights of confrontation and compulsory process guarantee exactly this: no person accused of a crime may be denied the right to introduce evidence when the probative value outweighs the prejudicial effect. The state and federal governments may not legislate to alter the rules of evidence so as to place unusual and new burdens on the accused's ability to defend himself. Testing rape victim shield laws against this federal constitutional standard finds many of them defective.

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Oh, most of the time I can laugh at it. Tonight the second guy I referenced above asked if I was working over the weekend. I told him the boss had asked me to come in tomorrow night. He said, "Who is helping to milk in the morning?" I said, "YOU ARE!" (just kidding but he didn't know that). Much wailing and wringing of hands resulted. Cruel, maybe, but funny as hell.

I was up this morning at 5:15, at work on the dairy by 6:30, ran around 3 counties afterwards taking down real estate signs, came home, unloaded the truck and got cleaned up, drove out to our farm and helped the man put a bale of hay out for our cows, came home and washed dishes/folded laundry, went back to work and milked the night shift, then loaded up feed and hauled it out to our cows (who were evidently on the verge of starvation, judging from the way they acted, despite having an 800# hay roll at their disposal AND being turned out on fresh pasture this morning! ). It's 1:15 a.m. now and I'm about to call it quits. I think I got more out of this day than it actually contained ...

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One of our cows is downright dangerous ... it's why she was culled from the herd. She jumped my boss's 80-year-old dad and damn near killed him! When I got to work and found he'd put her on the truck, I called my man in a panic and sent him off to the auction to buy her. He got there too late and she'd already been purchased by the Cargill buyer. Luckily an angel disguised as a ringman named George intervened and got the buyer to sell her back to us at a premium. Best $1575 I ever spent, lol. She's the sweetest cow in the world when she's not in heat but for 24 hours every 21 days ... look out! Holy terror.

We milked her through the rest of that lactation, then I AI'ed her; sadly the calf was stillborn but we milked her for another 14 months. My man made cheese every day for over a year, lol. It's been years since we dried her off but we still have vacuum-sealed blocks of cheese in the freezer. She lives in our backyard now along with the calf and goats and ducks. Here's a pic from a couple winters back. Imgur Yes she's a tad chunky, lol. Our Marianne. <3

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The top comment there is pretty good, and I relate to it a lot:

Even before the pandemic I was focused on myself and somewhat isolated. I had things I did but I'll be honest in saying I often just wanted to be home working towards personal goals. I don't want kids, my ovaries are probably dried out as I type, I'm too old for a lot of my peers and I'm not super conventionally attractive. I'm OK with me and I'm OK being alone which makes trying consistently to meet people who are also OK with them / OK being alone becomes less and less important to me. Dating is like ... work. It's work I don't enjoy and don't feel a need to do so

I'm almost old enough to fit that sub's demographic, and even though 30 isn't that old, it's basically geriatric in the dating game. This is the age bracket where people's careers tend to heat up, and between work and pursuing my own mostly solitary interests and hobbies, it's hard to find the time and energy for dating, which can honestly feel like a full time job in its own right.

And the thing of it is I'm actually pretty content this way, even happy. It helps that I'm not super extroverted, but I kind of love spending my free time on myself and my personal projects and occasionally hanging out with a few close friends. And I've realized how unhappy and hollow I felt throughout my early 20s trying to force myself to work so hard networking for sex and relationships with people I only had the shallowest commonality with.

My work puts me around a lot of fresh out of college aged people, and I recognize the haggard looks on their faces some mornings all too well. Partying and drinking and talking to girls is work, especially if you're naturally introverted. Ultimately I don't regret the experiences I had, because they were very instructive in their own way and prepared me for where I am now. But god am I glad that it's over and I don't have to give a fuck anymore.

[–]SmurfESmurferson5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

even thought 30 isn’t that old, it’s basically geriatric in the dating game

Yes and no

In the 20-something SMP/RMP, it is old af. You’re hitting the point where people are getting married en masse, and the usual meat market clubs are too loud/crowded. Hangovers feel like they take days to shake

You’re coming up on SMP/RMP #2, though - the mid-30s through about 50. You can almost time your watch to it - a couple years after the wedding rush, you’ll have a wave of fresh divorcees flooding the market, maybe a couple widows/widowers. There will be a whole new influx of energy and money - instead of clubs, it’ll be wine bars and appetizers. Drinking less, and enjoying a light buzz (instead of getting drunkity drunk). It’s different, but fun as hell

And you’ll once again be young in this market!

[–]Bandit1742 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Single moms are pretty absent from this dating pool in my area, but I think that’s area-dependent here, you’re looking at divorcees (some with kids, but co-parenting with an ex is WILDLY different from single moms), the “never marrieds,” and a few widows

Oh I agree single moms aren't the norm where I am either (I think we're both in the same general region of the country tho) but I kinda lump single moms and coparenters in the same category. In both cases its extra baggage from the perspective of someone without kids. In fact I'd probably prefer the single mom over the coparenting mom.

Honestly, even men get to the point where the “never marrieds” are huge walking red flags - like, what is wrong with you that the entirety of a gender selected against you at the point where everyone was rushing to the altar?

At what age does it reach that point tho?

Also I thought the % of never marrieds was increasing?

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that possibility is very low

It’s actually not low - look at the gold diggers and trophy wives of the world. They are quite common, especially when you consider that women prefer find their age match most attractive. So most women in age gap relationships (which TRP claims happens all the time) are doing it because he supplemented his looks with status/personality

Men can absolutely increase their value through status and personality. And it happens way more often than “the possibility is very low”

most men are not able to supersede their looks value and end up having to date their looksmatch

That sounds like men are mad to date their looks match? Why would they be?

the importance of looks for most men is not fundamentally different to how looks are important to women

Hard disagree, or there would be roughly equal numbers of the female version of the aforementioned male half of the gold diggers/trophy wives/age gap relationships

[–]RepresentativeSwan11 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

the vast majority of men do not end up getting a trophy wife

I’m not saying that even 50% of men are batting above their average, but I’m also not saying that it’s statistically insignificant. Enough men supplement their looks with status/personality that it’s a valid strategy

It’s neither a guarantee nor a majority, however

5% for men

I thought the stats were 10% of relationships had a >10 year age gap (not sure on the gender split, but it skews more heavily in men’s favor). But add in closer in age couples where there are gold diggers or trophy wives, and guys who did just genuinely attract hotter girls because of personality/status/whatever

You’re looking at like 20 or so percent of men, if not a little more. That’s a statistically significant minority, and that’s all I’ve been talking about

[–]RepresentativeSwan11 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

How is a 10 year age gap automatically an example of a man dating up in looks?

Because even the OKC study you guys love posting shows the same thing - women are attracted to their age matches, NOT older men. I’ll give you that there are going to be some exceptions to this, but I haven’t seen numbers on it

over the age of 30 .... a 10 year age gap is not a significant difference in looks

To you, as a man. But the studies hold out that women prefer their age matches, even over the age of 30

That stat does not tell us anything meaningful at all

It does, in conjunction with the other studies

Another point is that a gold digger/trophy wife isn’t even an example of a man become more attractive with non-looks traits!

Not true. In those cases, his money allows him to attract a better partner. It makes him more attractive to her

He’s just paying for a live-in whore. Paying for whores doesn’t mean you have a higher SMV

Very not true - she’s been moved in, and become a part of his life. Introduced to his children. Very different from a whore

And he wouldn’t have her without his money. His RMV got so high because of it that his SMV got a bump (because she - and her competition - are hoping to lock him down)

Keep in mind that RMV is more important to women than SMV. Sex is cheap, romance is the prize

[–]RepresentativeSwan11 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Because even the OKC study you guys love posting shows the same thing - women are attracted to their age matches, NOT older men.

No, that shows that women are most attracted to their age matches, all else being equal. A 8/10 40 year old man is still going to be hotter than a 4/10 30 year old man, and we have no idea what the attractiveness are of the people in those age-gap relationships. The stat tells us nothing without that extra information.

Very not true - she’s been moved in, and become a part of his life. Introduced to his children. Very different from a whore

Lol, she's a whore in the sense that she's only there for his money!

But fine, if you want to say that counts as a man being more attractive, go ahead, but typically the "looks are a threshold" argument is made in response to someone claiming that looks are what's most important to women for sexual attraction, and the existence of trophy wives/gold diggers are not an counter-example to that claim at all.

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

that shows that women are most attracted to their age matches, all else being equal

Then you saw a different study. I only saw the one that shows that women swarm their age matches, to the detriment of older men. There was nothing comparing the looks of men - and like I said, exceptions will exist

But George Clooney is statistically rare, and age gap relationships happen far more often than the statistically rare more-attractive-than-age-matched-suitors situation

The stat tells us nothing without that extra information

Again, can you link the study comparing the attractiveness of the individuals?

Lol, she’s a whore in the sense that she’s only there for his money!

No, his money made him more attractive

the existence of trophy wives/gold diggers are not a counter-example to that claim at all

Except they wouldn’t be there if he didn’t supplement his looks with his status. And the majority of them wouldn’t be there if he was Quasimodo

It’s the combination of the two

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A lot of them blame “autism” for why they repel friends and romantic interests. And then I read their regular comments... they’re casually cruel and twisted. I’m sure ppl IRL sense it. Edgelords don’t have friends outside of other edgelord acquaintances on the deep webs.

I've been trying to figure out how to make a post about this that doesn't come off as just being an edgelord myself.

There's a phenomenon on this sub that in my mind I've dubbed the "Autists are Wonderful Effect." I saw a lot of it in that personality thread yesterday. Basically the idea that autistic/neurodivergent guys are just misunderstood and haven't had the opportunity to hone their social skills, but if a girl would just give him a chance and maybe work with him a little, she cold mold him into a caring, attentive partner who would treat her so much better than the attractive assholes she normally goes for.

That's...not how autism works. Even the ones who don't go out of their way to be edgy still have problems empathizing and understanding/expressing emotions and often say and do things that are unintentionally rude and abrasive. That's like, you know, what autism is. He may learn a little with practice but he's never going to be some emotionally attentive doting beta.

I have a friend whose husband has Asperger's and severe agoraphobia and anxiety. They were my roommates for a couple of years in our early twenties. I love them both dearly. But the dude is a wreck, and the attention/empathy/doting in that relationship only flows one way, from her to him. It takes a very particular kind of woman to be in a relationship with a man like that (actually, I've told atlas many times that this friend reminds me of her, lol). My friend has told me in no unclear terms that she's with her husband because he is hot and loyal and that's all she cares about. She herself is an eccentric INTJ who doesn't need a lot of emotional support or connection. She supports him completely because his suite of mental illnesses aren't conducive to gainful employment. They have a great relationship, but they're both very abnormal people. A guy like that would drive most women up the wall. Even being his roommate was mentally and emotionally draining.

All that to say, this myth that you could take a socially stunted neurodivergent guy and "mold" him into a good boyfriend is just so far-fetched and ridiculous. Guys like that are blunt, abrasive, and often cruel, even without meaning to be. And I don't say that to shit on these guys at all but it is what it is. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that inside every neurodivergent shut-in is a secret romantic Romeo but it is not true in my experience.

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If it only it were that simple.

I specifically used the example of male nature because I have no way of knowing what it is like to be male. I can see the behaviors, and guess what's under the hood, but at the end of the day it's speculation.

Take the statement "guys only interact with women they would fuck, therefore all of your male friends want to fuck you." I can't use my own experience to assess a claim like that because I'm not a guy. If I say "but I have male friends who have never hit on me" they could say "well that doesn't mean they didn't want to fuck you, it just means they didn't try."

I go to my male relatives and ask the same question, they say that's bullshit, men befriend women they're not romantically interested in all the time. My brother points out that he himself rejected multiple female friends who tried to make moves on him.

Now then, whose ideas carry more weight? For me its unequivocally the second camp. To anyone who for whatever reason trusts camp number one over people they know and trust irl, good luck.

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This is the only place I can vent, ignore this if you can. I just had my very first run-in with the Reddit echo chamber and it was the worst experience I’ve ever had on this godforsaken site. I‘m naturally not a very confrontational person so it felt like I was on the verge of a heart attack when the replies started pouring in. Just blatant misinformation, hypocritical statements, ad hominem attacks being thrown at me, it was as much fascinating as it was terrifying. I’ve only ever heard about these types of people from second hand accounts on rants about redditors, I’ve never imagined it to be this real. I've just received another reply calling me a Nazi, oh my fucking shit. Every follow-up comment was downvoted to shit even the one providing actual facts, actual historical facts that sadly went against the narrative. I‘m so tired, I wanted to make an egg sandwich this evening, not cry in my bed

Edit: also, I’m banned from the sub

Edit 2: don’t worry about the Nazi accusation, my argumentation was in line with what my government said on the subject, the fucking German government, yes that’s right

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A friend of mine said this recently, now it's late and I can't remember the context but he said something like, "it's interesting to consider that the skills you need to maintain a relationship past 12 years or so are the same skills you need to make an arranged marriage work."

I'm not sure if I agree with your friend's statement. That would take a certain person with a certain set of skills, not to mention one of them being an ability to form a connection with a person almost instantly, and not just the "make anyone like you in two minutes" salesman pitch type of connection.

Like wat is chemistry anyway, seems overrated

Chemistry is a combination of things - a few of which are having an interest in and feeling charged around each other, and like you can be your best selves around them. It can be hard to explain but you know it when you feel it. It's similar to that feeling you get when you know you've found a good friend upon meeting. You just fit so well together.

Its pretty important in forming long-standing and satisfying relationships.

Why can't we all just get along (in relationships)?

Its hard. Some people just don't connect well. It's like asking why can't everyone just be friends? Everyone is different and we all react and respond to people in different ways. Some bring out the best in us and some leave us feeling neutral or just tired and unenthusiastic.

[–]Notorious-Beeb1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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This is why I think relationships and most marriages fail. People prioritize maxxing out their partners looks, and value to others, which comes back a validation them instead of prioritizing actually compatibility. People will choose partners based on what others like instead of what they actually like. As they say “Easier to get a girlfriend when you already have one”

Personally speaking, I think most people get into relationships out of social approval and personal gratification than anything else. Dating around and being in a relationship is almost overtly culturally enforced, so people feel like it's something that they have to do, kind of like a hobby. That's why some people get into a relationship before they even really know each other well enough to say "I should be with this person. They're a good match for me." People date and then find out if things work out or not, which is like just backwards to me.

If a relationship is actually going to last, it has to go well beyond basic attraction. Good compatibility has to be established early instead of going for the best looking person and trying to figure out the rest later.

I agree, but this is the hardest part. Some people aren't comfortable with themselves, haven't done the "spiritual" work on themselves, and are afraid to be judged for anything other than the personality that they want others to see, which is the part of their personality they've probably been crafting for awhile.

If people stopped fronting and were their total, unrestricted selves all the time, most people wouldn't be able to engage with each other.

[–][deleted]2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Attraction is created in the mind of the other person and they don't have much control over who they become attracted to.

Like I said, simple, and horrifically unfair.

In tangentially related news, I just learned that Vladimir Putin's most fervent fanbase is women in their late 40's and up. Those shirtless horseback pics we laugh at go on refrigerator magnets.

Why? Because he is a robust and vigorous man, at an age when most Russian men are dead and buried. Maybe it's not great to be attractive by being the last man standing, but that's why I mean when I say men don't age like wine, we age like warlords.

Attraction is simple. But we moderns, who killed God, also think we somehow killed the lizard brain. We didn't kill the lizard brain, and guess what? When you're attractive enough (money, fame, power, whatever) their lizard brains let you literally grab them by the pussy.

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Like I said, simple

Its not "simple" though. It sounds simple but the whole process is not simple.

Attraction is simple. But we moderns, who killed God, also think we somehow killed the lizard brain. We didn't kill the lizard brain, and guess what? When you're attractive enough (money, fame, power, whatever) their lizard brains let you literally grab them by the pussy.

This sounds like the "just be attractive, bro" sarcasm that we often get in here, which is, again, not simple. I imagine that women are attracted to Putin's character being that he IS the president of the entire country. If he were a regular guy working in a steel factory, he wouldn't have the platform to be exposed to every woman in the country and therefore not be liked as much.

Sometimes all it takes is a picture. Sometimes it takes more than that. Sometimes nothing you say or do will make it happen. That's why attraction is not simple.

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But they’re talking about literal words on the pages of the book, where Drago does ask for her consent. As opposed to the TV show, where he doesn’t

The context of the conversation about her consent is about her age (14) and the fact that she had never been allowed agency over her body before that - all decisions had been made for her - and how that affected her ability to consent, and also her feelings after the fact

No one said it was ok

If you want a more nuanced discussion, look into the rape of Joan in Mad Men. I watched that episode with my mother and grandmother, and it was interesting to see how very different our reactions to that scene were. The both were just like “oh, that happens, that’s a bad date”

And that actor was not painted as attractive or anything but an unlikeable character

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Abortion is women alleviating any responsibilities for having a child. Atlas made a compelling argument that having the abortion IS taking responsibility

I posted that I think it's immoral for women that are planning to be SAHMs to take a seat from a man that needs to work his whole life. My view was changed in that we pretty much have infinite seats now in college. I still maintain this view for occupations with limited seats like MDs. We already have a doctor shortage. If you go to med school while planning to raise a family, that's immoral.

I posted that I think all young men should do 2 years mandatory military. ArthurMacArthur convinced me that is a really bad idea because our military needs to be ready, not coddling woke little boys that will cry because the drill instructor is too mean.

Just a couple off the top of my head.

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[–]poppy_blu1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

A big steaming pile of poo. Here’s why:

In all the years I’ve been around the manopshere, I have seen the suggestion that a solution to men not having support is to (wait for it) provide men more support frequently. I’ve never NOT seen it met with a response that wasn’t “stop trying to feminize men!” “Men don’t need your pity/charity!” Ive literally had men PM me threats for suggesting that peer to peer fellowship among men (which I have seen successfully work) is the key to changing this dynamic. (Because of course men can’t be held responsible for changing men’s situation, only women can be blamed for anything and everything that ails men).

Seems like these men in the manosphere don’t really want to solve mens “loneliness and isolation.” They want to use it as an excuse to punish women.

What is your suggestion to solve the problem of sexlessness among men? Because I’ve yet to hear a solution that wasn’t forcing women to change their behaviors or restructuring women’s freedoms.

I’m sure if I said the solution to helping people who are hungry is to steal food from people who have it, you’d probably say that was a terrible idea.

[–]SmurfESmurferson5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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I'm trying to be nice but you are arguing from emotion here. Its a shitty situation but the argument that its traumatic for some people is not a valid reason to not have this.

If a fetus is considered its own human remains then yes this makes sense. That is the only logical argument to have having here.

If you had a home birth and the baby died I am quite sure you are required to report it by law. I tried to look briefly but I can't find it due to al the other hits about midwives being sued for home birth deaths, but thats another issue.

Thinking about peoples feelings should not be a legal argument.

As I could see its the hospitals that get fined too I didn't see anything about women in the sources I looked at.

Hell the big issue seems to be this..

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2019/10/fetal-remains-bill-would-force-women-in-pa-to-have-funeral-services-for-miscarriages-and-abortions.html

“We received heartfelt emails from women telling us about their early miscarriages, how difficult they were, and how much worse it would have been were they forced to get a death certificate for a pregnancy that they understood so differently,” Frankel said. “It’s simply wrong to tell women what a loss of pregnancy is supposed to mean to them.”

Basically its bad for women to think it was a actual baby? A pregnancy they understood so differently? Change what it means to them?

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10 to 20% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage - that’s not taking into account the miscarriages that are unknown

My wife probably had an early miscarriage, I say probably because it was quite early on, and like you we saw no value in exploring it, but it would still be logically consistent to file papers if you were of the opinion I laid out. Its not about why, why is how they get away with it, they don't have to say the "A" word but can hide it behind a more general issue.

Logically, mandatory pregnancy tests would follow. Or there’s no way this would be held up - you can’t let people not do paperwork because they didn’t know

I'm not following, if it was very early like my wife, they could still test the tissue. I don't understand why you are refusing to see the logic behind it. You don't have to agree with it, hell I don't, but claiming this is somehow to punish women for having a miscarriage is just wrong.

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Anyone else find it funny (or perhaps sad) how many men here are so invested in fighting this blue pill enemy, when there really is no blue pill ideology let alone a community?

That's maybe because you didn't meet them. There's a particular brain archetype to it.

I grew up surrounded by them. They're specifically more common in white families who had millennial kids. The kind that has been burnt by sexual revolution, or IDK what, where women started getting empowered and quickly fell that power go away as they aged, they tried not to reenact this problem in their kids by furthermore empower women and shit on boys. They're also a generation of people who've been fed with ideas of feminism and socialist very hard.

So you get quite a lot of people who lived in feminist socialist matriarchal homes that tell them women good, foreigners good, only to go to school with the said foreigners who are very red pilled and are socially more successful.

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It’s not “older men are more attractive”.

it’s “on average, your average man will have more opportunities to get into relationships or get laid than he did when he was in his younger 20’s”.

Dating as a young man is hard, very hard, to the point 33% of all young men under 24 years old haven’t gotten laid the full year (possibly 25% being virgins).

That number drops drastically as they enter their 30’s. The simplest conclusion people make is “men get more attractive” but there’s a bit more too it. Men settle into a career, probably got his own house/car, at the same time the “Wall” appears for women, women want to start settling down and starting a family, who better to do that with than the stable guy who owns a house and has a career?

His “attractiveness” is arguably worse than his early 20’s. But the circumstances surrounding him makes it easier for him to get a relationship or laid.

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Yes

From what I've observed among my friends and during my own divorce, it's because men are more prone to monkey-branching (funny they usually accuse women of doing so).

They usually don't want to end a relationship, no matter how unfulfilling, unless they have someone else already lined up.

Also, they seem to stay more passive when relationship ends. For example: I'm divorced because my husband decided he married too young and needs to "sow his wild oats".

Still, it was me who had to initiate the conversation (all he did was lie, scream, fuss, dissapear for days in the end, then lie and argue even more etc.). And even after we decided to divorce, I had to fill because he was delaying it for later. I guess he wanted to f*** around but didn't have anyone already lined up. Not many of my friends are divorced tbh (i'm 31f, so not much divorces amongst my peers - yet), but some of them were in long term relationships, and similar pattern is visible.

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i mean he’s boring in the sense that he kinda acts like an old man, like he never wants to go anywhere and typically goes to bed around the same time my dad does lmao

Reminds me of my gf's best friend, who goes to bed really early, generally. I think the not wanting to go anywhere thing just takes some time to grow out of, but each case is very different as well, so idk. I was definitely less adventurous and less liable to want to go out and do things around 20ish, and there were a lot of reasons why that's changed in the last 5 years or so.

hopefully i can convince him to go experience the world outside more before heavier adult shit takes up so much of our time that we can’t anymore.

Surprisingly, this hasn't been that much of an issue ime. Once you have stuff taking up your time, you learn to really manage it well, and unless say, you are completely overworked (in which case, a new job is in order), you can still make plenty of time for more fun activities.

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Because you want to go out and do things. Eventually you’re going to do that and find more in common with other people and enjoy your time spent with other people who enjoy doing thinks you like. Maybe this won’t happen for you, but IME this is what usually happens. You’ll start enjoying him a lot less. And that’s okay. It’s not evil. It’s incompatibility. You can commit to commitment if you want. But you’re only 21. I’d try to find someone I’m more compatible with. Or maybe you just worded it in a way that made it seem more serious than it is and it’s not something you actually care about.

I was with a friend’s cousin last year. She was dying to go out with me so we can go to shows together. I asked her why won’t she just go with her husband when we’re busy. She said he doesn’t ever like going out. But she’s gone to baseball games he likes because he enjoys it. I always wondered, “how are these two even a couple.” Anyway in 2020 they divorced after 15 years and 4 kids. I’m pretty sure she knew he was incompatible for her at 24 but I think she had your mindset.

[–]rft243 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But you’re only 21. I’d try to find someone I’m more compatible with. Or maybe you just worded it in a way that made it seem more serious than it is and it’s not something you actually care about.

i feel like we are compatible in every other way, this is really the only actual complaint i have about him. i don’t see why i’d let go of a great guy just because i’m young and have one complaint about him.

I was with a friend’s cousin last year. She was dying to go out with me so we can go to shows together. I asked her why won’t she just go with her husband when we’re busy. She said he doesn’t ever like going out. But she’s gone to baseball games he likes because he enjoys it. I always wondered, “how are these two even a couple.” Anyway in 2020 they divorced after 15 years and 4 kids. I’m pretty sure she knew he was incompatible for her at 24 but I think she had your mindset.

well that’s probably because she was the only one doing the compromising, which is unfair.

i’m not the only one who compromises in my relationship.

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I will just say this, not telling you what you should do one way or the other. But as you get older (late twenties on), going out with friends becomes rarer and rarer, and when it does happen it's often in the form of going out with other couples. So a spouse/SO who never wants to go out is a social liability in that it forces you to be a third wheel (awkward) or can reflect badly on him and by extension you in the eyes of your friends and their SOs.

You're totally right that every relationship involves compromise and that you're never going to like everything about a person. Other people are also right in saying that you guys are young and it's possible he'll be more social in the future. But it's never wise to bank on someone changing, so give some thought to what your life would look like 10+ years from now if things stay exactly as they are right now, and whether that's something you'd be okay with. Maybe it is and that's totally cool! But that's my advice.

[–]rft242 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

i appreciate that your comment doesn’t come off as judgmental and hostile.

I will just say this, not telling you what you should do one way or the other. But as you get older (late twenties on), going out with friends becomes rarer and rarer, and when it does happen it's often in the form of going out with other couples. So a spouse/SO who never wants to go out is a social liability in that it forces you to be a third wheel (awkward) or can reflect badly on him and by extension you in the eyes of your friends and their SOs.

i can see why you’d say this; but i have a hard time believing this is always true, because i’ve watched my parents maintain an active social life as long as i’ve been alive.

You're totally right that every relationship involves compromise and that you're never going to like anything about a person. Other people are also right in saying that you guys are young and it's possible he'll be more social in the future. But it's never wise to bank on someone changing, so give some thought to what your life would look like 10+ years from now if things stay exactly as they are right now, and whether that's something you'd be okay with. That's my advice.

i don’t expect him to change, i’ve accepted him for who he is now. it’s not like he never ever goes out with me either, he just doesn’t like going out. i don’t mind it as much as i did when i was younger, i have my friends to go out with.

plus, even if we both didn’t have friends, we have a lot of family. our families would just become our social life lol, i actually don’t mind that.

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Gee the comments are so triggered. Its a recruitment ad, y'all never seen a recruitment ad before? They're all inspirational words blurby keyword.

This is SFW anyone wandering btw.

Edit; You know I'll expand, it's like the top comment on youtube;

My color & gender doesn’t matter”, proceeds to talk about it for what felt like forever.

Are these people...

Trying to find something to get angry with because they don't like the subject matter?
Being deliberately obtuse?
Don't understand the context of the video and why it is structured as it is?

I'd assume a mix of 1 or 2 though Halons Razor says they're probably just not good on the understanding.

The structure here being simple -

- The ad has someone who lists traits that a person may assume disqualifies them from working in the CIA for historical and practical reasons.

- It mentions Imposter syndrome as many people who fit into one or more of these are prone to feeling.

- It ties it all up with the fact they were not hired for a diversity quota -if you work hard and work well you are welcome to work for the CIA. This is the message being conveyed through story of an existing worker.

Its just an ad saying don't let 'these things' stop you.

But most comments are just a swing or a miss. I really don't understand if people are stupid or acting in malice.

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The benefits are mostly if you break up. I'm not a lawyer but some things I can think of are:

- Divorce courts will take into account "unpaid labor" to a certain extent. For example if one person took time off their career to raise children and is now the earning spouse, they can get alimony. This doesn't happen if two unmarried people are breaking up.

- Property can be divided in two ways--either all assets acquired after marriage are considered "community property" OR the state will try for an "equitable distribution of property". So for example a house you bought together after marriage would generally be considered joint property regardless of who paid for it or whose name is on the mortgage and title. This is once again beneficial for a lower earning spouse because they can't simply be kicked out of where the live in a divorce--the other person will have to "buy them out" of the house. On the other hand for an unmarried couple, the person who does not own the house can be evicted (although they might have some tenant rights if they were helping pay the mortgage). The above rules also apply to things like investments, cars, etc

These are just the rules surrounding money and assets. There are other benefits to marriage in the US as well for long term couples.

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How is all that having fun IN THE DATING WORLD?

Because that’s what dates are. Who the hell are you people who don’t enjoy dating?

Granted, it’s no fun if the other person sucks, but sometimes you meet people you have fun with but there’s no sexual chemistry. You guys keep hanging out until a friendship takes root

Wishful thinking

Nope. Party guys wife up party girls everyday. It’s demonstrably true

It’s social assertive mating. This weird PPD fantasy that the charismatic party Chad wifes up the introverted shut in who only goes to the library is just not based in real life

Why would me fucking chicks mean I’m ok with my gf/wife having taken miles of dick

You don’t have to be. No one has to be

But you’re selecting against women with healthy sexuality - no one with a head on their shoulders is sticking with a guy with that sort of hypocrisy. Then again, TRP self selects for crazies, so it’s on brand

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Because that’s what dates are. Who the hell are you people who don’t enjoy dating?

You have dates to have sex/relationships.Not have drinks. If you want to have drinks/dance/go out without the implication of sex you go out with your friends.

Nope. Party guys wife up party girls everyday. It’s demonstrably true

Sure. But they continue fucking other chicks like usual. Because, like I said, they aren't invested in these chicks. The chads that plan to actually stay monogamous very much do go for the more down to earth chick.

But you’re selecting against women with healthy sexuality

How so?

no one with a head on their shoulders is sticking with a guy with that sort of hypocrisy.

It's not hypocrisy. Men and women just have different standards. Are you a hypocrite for wanting a man thats taller than you or more emotionally stable or wealthier or higher status etc. etc.?

TRP self selects for crazies, so it’s on brand

Again, wishful thinking.

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And how do you make friends? You meet, you start hanging out ... That’s exactly what I’m describing

You don't understand the difference between dating and making friends? I get that this might have been what you wanted to say but if you did mean just making friends you should have phrased it differently.

No, dude, I mean literally get married

Yes. And I mean literally fucking multiple chicks on the side. A man like that isn't actually invested in the chick.

High sociosexual people marry each other. Low sociosexual people marry each other. Marrying across that divide is very rare

Happens all the time. Although IMO sociosexuality is a bullshit term.

Because a woman who enjoys sex - but also enjoys respectful, healthy relationships - isn’t making an effort to win over a guy who clearly doesn’t respect or like her

And what does that have to do with selecting against sluts?

.Look at the butthurt that happens when a virgin or low N woman posts about not wanting a high N guy.

Ive never seen anyone being butt hurt. People are just saying that this almost never actually happens. It doesn't. Women don't care about n count.

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Parents should spoil sons while being overly strict to their daughters to mold their personalities better for dating.

Men are judged based on their personality for dating while women aren't. Women like arrogant, entitled, overly confident men, so men should be spoiled to help get those traits.

Women suffer from being too greedy, entitled, hedonistic and care free in dating. Being spoiled adds to those problems. They need to be more neurotic so that they can make better choices on who to date. Women will make better dating choices and pick people who are more likely to be in a relationship with them if they are more neurotic and disciplined in their dating from having a strict childhood.

The church had a good thing going for women when they were able to make women more strict and disciplined in dating in the past.

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How does spoiling sons result in them having better personalities?

Ironically one of the underlying factors of some of the problems in black communities is single mothers spoiling their sons and being strict with their daughters. You should watch a show called save our sons, a reality tv series where dr steve perry would help single black mothers whose sons were on the verge of descending into lives of crime. The common themes throughout: the daughters turned out fine despite growing up in the same household; the mothers carried guilt for the dads not being around which resulted in them going easy on the boys (usually subconsciously), who responded by pushing the limits and seeking structure and guidance on the streets.

As to your other point, it just sounds like “women should be raised to have low self esteem so they’ll accept low value men.” Nothing new to see here.

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Age is kind of consistent - with time the body ages and decay sets in and if one is not homebound for a year or so one constantly makes new experiences.

N-count is not consistent. N is counting the number of partners, not the actual number of sexual encounters, right? Imagine to women with a (I hope in your eyes too) low N-count of two. One had 2 longterm relationships for ~2-3 years (that broke apart because people are young and dumb in their late teens and early 20s and grow apart) the other had two one night stands.

The woman with the one night stands may have figured out yet what kind of moves she enjoys or may yet still have a bit of an akward moment to settel into a penetrative position.

The woman with two LT relationships understands better what she likes and what she dislikes, and knows her way around in a relationship.

Measuring these very different experiences with the same N-count is not very consistent in my eyes.

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Not really. Maybe in the subjective sense, as in "I think they're great and I like them," but not in the sense that you're literally comparing people to others and judging them from most attractive/funny/successful/interesting/etc, to the least.

let’s not act like it’s only women who do this, though. plenty of men do, they’re just not as open about it as women are.

people with a healthy approach to dating aren’t comparing and judging each person they’re dating and seeking “the best.”

I've been attracted to women that weren't conventionally attractive at all but we had a good connection and mutual interests that made talking to each other pretty easy.

many women can say something similar.

i’ve said before that romantic attraction creates room for sexual attraction to grow where it wasn’t before. i didn’t think that statement was also true for men, though.

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

let’s not act like it’s only women who do this, though.

Never said otherwise. Let's not try to shift the focus from women onto men, though.

"plenty of men do, they're just not as open about it as women are."

Open about what? Women hide the fact that they judge men this way. It's only until recently that women have started to admit it because of the previous belief that women were more like the former.

"people with a healthy approach to dating aren't comparing and judging each person they're dating and seeking "the best."

I'm unsure how those two things aren't connected. You can't have "the best" without comparing and judging people, so if people are "seeking the best," does that mean that they don't have a healthy approach to dating?

"many women can say something similar."

K. They can, sure, but it doesn't seem to be as common. Especially under the age of 30.

"i've said before that romantic attraction creates room for sexual attraction to grow where it wasn't before."

Not in this post, you didn't.

"i didn't think that statement was also true for men, though."

It is. Maybe just not for the ones who don't see women as people and yet also get more attention from women than other men do.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Never said otherwise. Let's not try to shift the focus from women onto men, though.

not trying to shift the focus; just pointing out that this isn’t specific to women, so i don’t see why ppd loves acting like it is.

Open about what? Women hide the fact that they judge men this way. It's only until recently that women have started to admit it because of the previous belief that women were more like the former.

open about how they, too, compare and judge potential partners and try to find “the best.”

women have never hid these things either, they just only spoke about it with their girlfriends. same way men have never hid their “red pulled truths,” they just only spoke about it amongst each other. social media has allowed for us to find each other’s spaces and hear what’s really being said among the genders on a larger scale.

I'm unsure how those two things aren't connected. You can't have "the best" without comparing and judging people, so if people are "seeking the best," does that mean that they don't have a healthy approach to dating?

yes, that’s what i’m saying. they are connected.

K. They can, sure, but it doesn't seem to be as common. Especially under the age of 30.

idk about that.

do you have many 20-something female friends who are telling you this has never happened to them?

Not in this post, you didn't.

right, that’s why i made sure to include “i’ve said before” as in before this post.

It is. Maybe just not for the ones who don't see women as people and yet also get more attention from women than other men do.

nah, i didn’t think that was true for every kind of man. i actually don’t think that’s true even for most men. we all know how visual men are.

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because it's not just a small minority of women, the vast majority of them want a guy who is 5'11-6'4. Some might settle for less but they will always see the shorter guy as less than.

The other annoying part is having to listen to how men are supposedly the more shallow sex when women are at least just as shallow. We get blasted for having preferences on weight (something you can control) but it's totally acceptable for short or even relatively average height guys to be rejected and mocked for height something we have no control over.

At the end of the day I recognize we can't make women change their preferences but I would like it if women got less sympathy for their insecurities and/or if more money could be invested towards height surgery to make it safer and more accessible. Ultimately that is the only real solution. Until the day comes where every man who wants to can safely and affordably have his height surgically altered to fall within the desirable range there will continue to be guys who complain about being judged, disadvantaged and feeling like shit because of their height.

[–]rft242 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

if the vast majority of them want a guy who is 5’11-5’6 and only some “settle,” why do i see so many men shorter than that in relationships and marriages?

women blast men for being discriminatory when it comes to weight, and men blast women for being discriminatory when it comes to height. no one is exempt from criticism in this regard, so it’s not like men are the only people on earth to receive criticisms for their dating preferences.

At the end of the day I recognize we can't make women change their preferences but I would like it if women got less sympathy for their insecurities and/or if more money could be invested towards height surgery to make it safer and more accessible. Ultimately that is the only real solution. Until the day comes where every man who wants to can safely and affordably have his height surgically altered to fall within the desirable range there will continue to be guys who complain about being judged, disadvantaged and feeling like shit because of their height.

things are not this bad for any of that to be necessary.

if men want more sympathy, maybe they should start by showing it to each other; the same way women have with things like feminism. a lot of men’s social issues could be solved if men themselves cared enough to solve them as a collective.

[–]thatguyfromrichmond2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Bandit1741 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Ok, it's not just some, most will likely settle but the point is that a guy being short or average height is almost always viewed as something negative that needs to be compensated for or that is settled for. It's almost never viewed favorably. A guy is viewed as being less valuable for being under 6ft in the eyes of most women. Obviously there aren't enough 6ft guys for every woman to have one so most will settle for less but only after they tried and failed to get a tall guy to commit.

I think men get criticized for weight preferences more than women do for height preferences and women also have pretty strict weight preferences too. Women aren't exactly lusting after fat or even skinny guys either.

things are not this bad for any of that to be necessary.

Idk, it seems like fitting beauty standards has increasingly become more important especially with online dating. Height is one of the most common insecurities for men to have. In this video even some of the older guys mentioned it. Hell even in your career it's been found that being tall and attractive correlates to more promotions and higher

You seem to be frustrated with guys complaining about being judged on height. My view is that as long as guys feel that their height reduces their worth sexually, socially and financially height will continue to be a sore subject. Women are not going to change their preferences so height surgery is the only realistic thing that will stop guys from being frustrated or insecure over their height. Until that happens height will continue to be something you will hear guys complain about.

a lot of men’s social issues could be solved if men themselves cared enough to solve them as a collective.

I agree on this one. If we had been collectively fundraising for researching height surgery or a cure to baldness it's possible we could have a solution or at least be closer than we are now.

[–]rft242 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Ok, it's not just some, most will likely settle but the point is that a guy being short or average height is almost always viewed as something negative that needs to be compensated for or that is settled for. It's almost never viewed favorably. A guy is viewed as being less valuable for being under 6ft in the eyes of most women. Obviously there aren't enough 6ft guys for every woman to have one so most will settle for less but only after they tried and failed to get a tall guy to commit.

why does it have to be viewed favorably? i thought it didn’t matter as long as dude got laid.

is the idea that a woman may just not care for height at all, as in feel entirely indifferent towards a man’s height, just unfathomable to men? makes sense, because sometimes it seems like y’all care about height even more than women do.

and there are traits in women that men view negatively or view as needing to be compensated for too, like if a woman is flat in the front and/or back or has some ugly features (or if she is both flat and has ugly features).

everybody settles. you are settling when you decide to be with one person over everybody else you could’ve been with. there is always going to be somebody who’s better on paper, you give that up as long as you decide to commit to one person. i don’t see why this is considered such a terrible thing.

I think men get criticized for weight preferences more than women do for height preferences and women also have pretty strict weight preferences too. Women aren't exactly lusting after fat or even skinny guys either.

that’s because you’re mainly listening to women criticizing men for weight preferences.

men criticize women for height preferences all the time, and many times just as harshly as women criticize men. you’re just less likely to hear that because it’s not directed at you.

Idk, it seems like fitting beauty standards has increasingly become more important especially with online dating. Height is one of the most common insecurities for men to have. In this video even some of the older guys mentioned it. Hell even in your career it's been found that being tall and attractive correlates to more promotions and higher

yes, we know the halo effect is a thing; but 1) this doesn’t mean short men can never be otherwise conventionally attractive, and 2) this also doesn’t mean short men or men who have unconventional features cannot succeed.

it seems like a lot of men’s dating problems would be solved if they just gained the confidence to date women irl and stopped trying to use online dating as their only avenue for dating.

You seem to be frustrated with guys complaining about being judged on height.

i’m not frustrated with it, i just don’t understand it.

i don’t like being judged for my race, but it happens. oh fucking well, i’m not complaining about it because complaining about reality doesn’t do much to change it. complaining that other people have not privilege than me does nothing to solve any of my problems.

My view is that as long as guys feel that their height reduces their worth sexually, socially and financially height will continue to be a sore subject. Women are not going to change their preferences so height surgery is the only realistic thing that will stop guys from being frustrated or insecure over their height. Until that happens height will continue to be something you will hear guys complain about.

or they could just date women who aren’t obsessed with height?

there’s 2 women for every 1 man, so i have a hard time believing there’s not enough to go around.

I agree on this one. If we had been collectively fundraising for researching height surgery or a cure to baldness it's possible we could have a solution or at least be closer than we are now.

this isn’t what i meant by that.

short and bald men get into relationships and marriages, so i have to wonder what’s stopping the ones that don’t? it couldn’t be that they’re short and/or bald, because that didn’t stop the others who have those traits from finding success with women.

[–]Bandit1741 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

why does it have to be viewed favorably? i thought it didn’t matter as long as dude got laid.

If tall is viewed as hot, good, desirable ect and short/average is at best viewed as neutral but usually as negative, bad, undesirable and overall something that automatically reduces our value and requires us to compensate by being richer, fitter, more charismatic than a taller guy then it's natural that it will lead to frustration or a desire to change it.

Also it likely does impact the ease to which someone gets laid. Even if a guy does get laid in spite of it they might still feel resentment over it. This might not be the best example but I know black women often get offended at the phrase "you're hot for a black girl". Even tho the guy finds you attractive it still leaves a bad taste in your mouth. So for us it's "you're hot for a short guy", yeah she might still find him hot in spite of being short but ideally we would want our height to not be viewed as something so negative in the first place even if we are able to compensate for it.

is the idea that a woman may just not care for height at all, as in feel entirely indifferent towards a man’s height, just unfathomable to men?

Yes

sometimes it seems like y’all care about height even more than women do.

lol, definitely not.

and there are traits in women that men view negatively or view as needing to be compensated for too, like if a woman is flat in the front and/or back or has some ugly features (or if she is both flat and has ugly features).

That is true, but I think a woman who is flat with an average face still has significantly more sex appeal than a 5'3 man with an average face. Furthermore lots of men prefer medium and even small but not flat boobs meanwhile women rarely to never prefer average to short men. So I think men's preferences on boob/butt size vary more than women's preferences on height.

everybody settles. you are settling when you decide to be with one person over everybody else you could’ve been with. there is always going to be somebody who’s better on paper, you give that up as long as you decide to commit to one person. i don’t see why this is considered such a terrible thing.

men criticize women for height preferences all the time, and many times just as harshly as women criticize men. you’re just less likely to hear that because it’s not directed at you

I guess that is a fair point, but at a societal level there seems to be more pushback towards weight shaming than height.

yes, we know the halo effect is a thing; but 1) this doesn’t mean short men can never be otherwise conventionally attractive, and 2) this also doesn’t mean short men or men who have unconventional features cannot succeed.

Correct, but it makes it harder for them to be considered attractive and succeed.

it seems like a lot of men’s dating problems would be solved if they just gained the confidence to date women irl and stopped trying to use online dating as their only avenue for dating.

I don't think women like short guys irl much better than online and it seems like online dating increasingly becomes more popular each year.

i’m not frustrated with it, i just don’t understand it. i don’t like being judged for my race, but it happens. oh fucking well, i’m not complaining about it because complaining about reality doesn’t do much to change it. complaining that other people have not privilege than me does nothing to solve any of my problems.

Do you think your race hurts your dating options as much as height does for men?

Maybe you don't complain but other black people definitely do and I think it makes sense. Whenever there is something that is out of your control that causes you to be judged, mistreated, disadvantaged and viewed as less than whether it's race, height, facial structure whatever it can lead to feelings of hopeless and pent up frustration. Complaining doesn't change it but neither does anything else.

there’s 2 women for every 1 man, so i have a hard time believing there’s not enough to go around.

Was that a typo? if not how do you get that there are 2 for every man?

this isn’t what i meant by that.

Are you against it tho? Like if science did come up with a safe and effective way for increasing height are you morally against men modifying themselves in that way?

short and bald men get into relationships and marriages, so i have to wonder what’s stopping the ones that don’t? it couldn’t be that they’re short and/or bald, because that didn’t stop the others who have those traits from finding success with women.

Not enough facial attractiveness or wealth to compensate with.

[–]rft242 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If tall is viewed as hot, good, desirable ect and short/average is at best viewed as neutral but usually as negative, bad, undesirable and overall something that automatically reduces our value and requires us to compensate by being richer, fitter, more charismatic than a taller guy then it's natural that it will lead to frustration or a desire to change it.

big butts are viewed as desirable and being flat is viewed as negative, women still end up having to compensate by being more beautiful in the face or having big tits or something. just like women with ugly faces have to compensate by having great personalities or banging bodies.

everyone who has an unfavorable trait (which is the overwhelming majority of folks) has to compensate for it, one way or another. that’s just life.

Also it likely does impact the ease to which someone gets laid. Even if a guy does get laid in spite of it they might still feel resentment over it. This might not be the best example but I know black women often get offended at the phrase "you're hot for a black girl". Even tho the guy finds you attractive it still leaves a bad taste in your mouth. So for us it's "you're hot for a short guy", yeah she might still find him hot in spite of being short but ideally we would want our height to not be viewed as something so negative in the first place even if we are able to compensate for it.

yes, that’s how privilege works. the privileged get things easier than everyone else.

i know that, many times, people will find me attractive despite my blackness. oh well, that’s better than not having options at all. as long as a person isn’t being gross about it (as in, doesn’t say that out loud) and isn’t racist, why does it matter? what matters is if they find me attractive and treat me well, not so much what they may not find attractive about me.

you want it so that you have more attractive qualities to offset the ones that could be considered unattractive.

i just don’t understand why men would rather complain about having to compensate for their unconventional features than finding ways to offset them, because i myself have had to do the same and wasn’t nearly as bitter about it. i’d think men would be more inclined to, as the stakes are higher for them since they supposedly have less options.

That is true, but I think a woman who is flat with an average face still has significantly more sex appeal than a 5'3 man with an average face. Furthermore lots of men prefer medium and even small but not flat boobs meanwhile women rarely to never prefer average to short men. So I think men's preferences on boob/butt size vary more than women's preferences on height.

that’s just because men are thirsty, not because the woman is actually objectively better looking than the short guy. it’s less about men’s preferences and more about their willingness to sleep with whatever has a vagina and a pulse.

I guess that is a fair point, but at a societal level there seems to be more pushback towards weight shaming than height.

yes, because women pressed the issue as a collective.

men could do the same, if they actually tried.

Correct, but it makes it harder for them to be considered attractive and succeed.

refer back to where i said that’s how privilege works.

I don't think women like short guys irl much better than online and it seems like online dating increasingly becomes more popular each year.

women don’t even know what “tall” actually looks like irl. they just know if you’re several inches taller than them, that’s pretty much all that matters.

you have a better chance at letting your personality and demeanor make a better impression than just pictures on an old, which (more likely than not) don’t look good since most men can’t take a selfie to save their lives.

Do you think your race hurts your dating options as much as height does for men?

if i didn’t have the beauty to offset it, absolutely.

Maybe you don't complain but other black people definitely do and I think it makes sense. Whenever there is something that is out of your control that causes you to be judged, mistreated, disadvantaged and viewed as less than whether it's race, height, facial structure whatever it can lead to feelings of hopeless and pent up frustration. Complaining doesn't change it but neither does anything else.

they do, and i tell them the very same thing. complaining isn’t gonna change your circumstances.

Was that a typo? if not how do you get that there are 2 for every man?

wasn’t a typo, i was being facetious. my point is there are more women than men.

Are you against it tho? Like if science did come up with a safe and effective way for increasing height are you morally against men modifying themselves in that way?

yes. i mean people should do what they want, but i’m against invasive body modifications including cosmetic surgery (unless it’s for or the result of a health issue).

Not enough facial attractiveness or wealth to compensate with.

and yet, the man in my example is short, ugly, obese, and is on disability. he still managed to find a wife who loves him and treats him well. i have to wonder why he could do it, but so many of these other men (plenty of whom probably aren’t nearly as ugly) keep complaining they can’t.

i think accepting his circumstances (rather than being bitter af about them to the point of opting out entirely) and looking for a woman on his level might have something to do with it.

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Salt update:

So after a long chain of wins I finally had a loss today. I had been talking to this girl for the last couple days, everything had seemed to be going perfectly, she seemed really into me, she would give genuine well though out responses and I could tell she was attracted to me. We were set to meet today. Everything seemed to be going to plan. We are talking all throughout the day. I got the hotel and told her to be on her way her and she allegedly was. She had snapped me a picture of her in a nice dress. She tells me she is near, messages me asking which room I am in. Then, radio silence. After like 30 minutes I blow up her snapchat, still with no response, not even left on read, wondering wtf is going on. 4 hours later she gets back to me, saying she was in a car accident close near the hotel. She is really irrate that I left her a few messages saying she is fucked up for standing me up. We get into it a little bit and then she blocks me before I think to ask for proof.

So, maybe she was in a car accident and I added major insult to injury, maybe she lied. Its fucked up that im left wondering, because I know there are women who would pull some stupid bullshit like this.

I know I know, im such a hypocrite getting upset over a potential liar when I lie for sport.

Regardless, all im out is 85 bucks, and ive salted over a dozen girls this year alone and this is the first time ever im left empty handed in a hotel room, so I cant be too mad, I have two more girls scheduled for this week.

Oh yeah, I got a free pizza cuz uber eats fucked up, so that was pretty nice.

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Nah.

Some men are so beautiful (HB 8/9/10) they could probably just sit and look pretty and at least attract a parade of ONSs before the woman realizes he’s a dud and she doesn’t stick around.

Men who are HB5 through HB7 can increase their SMV via a combo of looks-maxing and/or presence-maxing and/or status-maxing. Men do this all the time.

No one is saying a man in the HB4 and below range will have an easy time improving via the things I mentioned. Uglier people will always struggle.

The real “black pill” is that there are men in the HB5 through HB7 range who think it’s their looks as to why they can’t attract woman, when it’s actually their total ineptitude in “looks-maxing and/or presence-maxing and/or status-maxing.”

In fact many of the men these guys view as 8s and 9s and 10s and “Chads” are men who successfully artificially inflated their SMV to the point of appearing to the naked eye of most as 8+s because of “looks-maxing and/or presence-maxing and/or status-maxing.”

[–]RepresentativeSwan10 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GridReXX2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Except they quite literally do not do this 'all the time'. In fact the vast majority of the time, they do not, as evidenced by the fact that most 5/10 men end up dating around 5/10 women.

Only the ones who didn’t looks/presence/status-max. The ones who do date up in “looks” and do so whilst maintaining the arousal of his mate.

It is exactly as fallacious as claiming that, since a minority of middle-income people are able to get rich, that therefore it's possible for all middle-income people to get rich.

It is entirely possible for men. It does happen all the time. Just as men failing, as they opine here, happens all the time.

Unlike, finances, which are finite. A man maxxing his potential is entirely up to his willingness, especially when it comes to looks-maxing and presence-maxing. Status takes a bit of opportunity.

I also think women are further motivated to claim looks are a threshold because of how harshly they rate men. Women will see an average man dating an average woman and think he's dating up, and conclude that that must have something to do with non-looks traits.

Show us a photo of a man you believe to be a “HB 6” if you will.

I did an OP on this. Even men couldn’t agree.

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Most men do try to have a personality.

Everyone has a personality.

Frame/game/masculine presence/playful sociability etc isn’t “having a personality.” It’s having attractive behavioral traits that can absolutely be curated.

People alter themselves in business dealings all the time. There are entire classes on commanding a room and giving presentations and tonality and “NLP” and so forth.

Sure if you believe status/game is something most men are able to acquire if they just put their mind to it, but I disagree that it is. I think the fact that most men don't have it is evidence that they can't get it.

As I said in my original reply to you.

The real “black pill” isn’t “looks.”

The “uncomfortable truth” is that many men don’t have the mental capacity to realize thy have the actual capability to frame/game/presence-max.

It seems you even know that “looks” aren’t what’s damning them. It’s their behavioral ineptitude.

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[–]SmurfESmurferson4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]RepresentativeSwan10 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]RepresentativeSwan11 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]RepresentativeSwan11 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago (71 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anxious_Economist_65 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]tiposkSerial divorce rapist 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]n3waccount2020 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]n3waccount2020 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]SliptheWhichbladeN Maiden 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]SliptheWhichbladeN Maiden 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]PickleLineSimp for Low N-Count women 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]_mwk 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Algae_Natural 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Manufacture-InsightLost in finding a meaning 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]_mwk 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]_mwk 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]_mwk 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]_mwk 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]_mwk5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]passepar2t 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]passepar2t 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]thatguyfromrichmond 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/30/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]EleanorAbernathyPhDMexican Becky [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Am I missing something? because this sounds like a textbook case of paranoia.

My dad is a narcissist and my ex turned out to be a psychopath (he has raped 2 women afaik, I suspect theres at least another one). Im still working on a lot of issues left from the relationships I had with both of them and im also a psychologist so I notice some traits other people might not.

Because of my new job I haven't been hanging out with my friends that much so last weekend I met 3 new people in the group: The guy one of my friends is dating (lets call him N), the girl another of my friends is dating (Y) and her neighbor (E). I didn't like any of them, I noticed I had my defenses up the whole time. We went out on Friday and then spent all Saturday at the beach so its not like I just judged them during dinner

Both N and Y have a fuck ton of narcissistic traits. N is really funny and is well known in our city but he is also kind of a bully. Y needs to be the center of attention the whole time and was flirting with N in front of us. E is super weird and gave me really bad vibes. He didn't do or said anything wrong, I just didn't want him near me.

Anyway, I didn't say anything because my friends are dating N and Y and I thought that maybe I was exaggerating (I mean, if I didn't like any of them I was probably the one with the issues and not them) but another girl in the group (who has also dealt with narcs) came up to me and told me she felt the exact same as me.

I could keep hanging out with N. At the end of the day im not the one who is dating him and he is very funny but I did told the girl who is dating him what I thought and to not think their relationship is going to develop into something more serious. I want nothing to do with Y and E and plan to avoid them as much as I can.

I understand people who doesn't have any experience with those personalities. Before I met E all I heard about him from the rest of the group was how perfect he was but for me he is a walking red flag. It has taken me years of therapy to overcome all of the gaslighting I went through with my dad and my ex and now I trust my gut way more - not saying im 100% sure they are bad people, they just turn my psycho radar on and I rather avoid them.

Just because you or any of the other commenters havent had experiences with those kind of people doesn't mean the women replying on the post you linked are exaggerating.

[–]TheBookOfSeilSentient penis with arms and legs 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Raven-Ray 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]philomexaIF THE POISON WON'T TAKE YOU, MY DOGS WILL 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]philomexaIF THE POISON WON'T TAKE YOU, MY DOGS WILL 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]EusticeSymington 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tiposkSerial divorce rapist 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChaddamhuseinPost body before calling me an incel 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]tiposkSerial divorce rapist 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ChaddamhuseinPost body before calling me an incel 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_STRIPPERS 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Algae_Natural 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]7 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]tiposkSerial divorce rapist 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Nation_of_Two 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_STRIPPERS 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slyfer_Seven8 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheJim665 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]TheJim663 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Slyfer_Seven6 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tiposkSerial divorce rapist 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]tiposkSerial divorce rapist 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]tiposk2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IroncladFrog4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Algae_Natural3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NTRollin0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IroncladFrog-2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IroncladFrog-1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]tiposk3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rft243 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Title	Weekly Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	10
Comments	2982
Date	May 24, 2021 8:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/nk6ucr/weekly_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/weekly-community-chat-megathread.756297 https://theredarchive.com/post/756297

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