Weekly Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2021-04-26T20:00:22+00:00

This weekly thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc......

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The making the move thing is funny to me because it reminds me of one of my best friends ex boyfriends. He was a nice guy but he’s kind of shy and awkward, my friend thought he was attractive though. He asks her out and they go on a series of dates over a month but he doesn’t make a move lol

Like I never forget we were at a bar and she was like “bro it’s been 3 dates why hasn’t this guy tried to fuck me yet🤣”. She said he would invite her back to his apartment(she would say yes because she wants to bang him) and then they would sit on the couch. He wouldn’t try to take her clothes off or anything. EVENTUALLY he got the message but this was like a month in when he could’ve been having sex with her from the first night.

I always tell guys, it’s not just the courage to ask her out/hit on her, you also have to Escalate on the date. I rather get my hand smacked away and know where I stand then just hope she hops on my penis.

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[–]poppy_blu9 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Human nature doesn’t change just because someone invented Facebook. I know it’s normal for young people to think their experiences are so new and unique but they’re not. Because you guys think you’re special because you know how to swipe and create memes doesn’t mean men aren’t going to be men and women aren’t going to be women.

Meanwhile we’re supposed to humor men who say with a straight face that 80% of men are incels, women have no sex drive, yet 100% of women are sleeping with 20% of men, and so on.

The “you’re old and married” charge is basically a way to discredit anyone who points out the earth is in fact round and everyone knows it. I may be old and married but that doesn’t negate the fact that if you want sex you have to take specific actions to get it. Googling studies and screeching about feminism is not going to get you anywhere closer to your goal.

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Which graph in particular?

Social media has been around for a lot longer than instagram - MySpace was around when I was in college, Facebook was the same. EHarmony and match have been around for almost as long

This shit isn’t new

All IG/OLD has done is force women to judge men solely by appearance/pictures. They’re forced to judge men through the same lens men have always judged women

But here’s the thing: if that doesn’t work for you, get off the fucking app and go to happy hour like a normal human being

Because I see college kids younger than you at happy hour all the time (there are two universities in my town), flirting and hooking up. And the gender dynamics in person are the EXACT SAME that they’ve always been

If new technology is not making life easier, then opt out. Go the way that has always worked, that is still working

[–]JohnDoe95642 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’m sure you’ve had to make SM accounts for whatever job you have now, it’s mandatory

Well, I’m in sales. I’d be a fucking idiot if I didn’t. I booked two cold call appointments this morning off it

Stop acting like it was as omnipresent as now

As someone who was in their 20s when FB was at it’s peak, it was. Every single person I worked with had FB logged in at their work computer all day long, we had it loaded on our Blackberries, etc. We all competed to see who could get a free invite to ASmallWorld

SM has been omnipresent since its introduction. With the advent of iPhones/smartphones, it’s more easily available everywhere (also due to the upgrade in network speed), but people followed SM religiously back in the day

Where was I complaining?

Oh, that wasn’t a rant directed at you, personally - apologies if it came across that way

I have a theory that the root of a lot of this complaining about SM is nothing more than introverted men who expected OLD to basically become like ordering a pizza off an app - they’d tap a few profiles, then one would show up at their door

That’s never been how gender dynamics works. The problem isn’t SM or some change in sexuality/gender, the problem is a change in expectations on behalf of the gender who feels left out

You have to opt-in, you can’t be passive

[–]JohnDoe95641 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The time spent on social media daily has increased by 60% since just 2012

Ok, and? Do you think people were not interested in it/obsessed with it, or maybe it’s because wireless networks have gotten better/faster and smart phones more accessible in that time?

The time spent wasn’t lack of interest or a sign on non-obsession. It was just impossible to access it that much

it has warped expectations on both sides

As did the sexual revolution. Women’s Lib/second wave feminism. The proliferation of working moms giving latchkey teens way more unsupervised time. The internet/message boards

OLD can get in line, it’s just one more social/technological advancement that made lazy people think their behavior was going to be rewarded. And it will eventually be replaced with another phenomenon

Except, human sexuality doesn’t respond to that stuff. It’s the same as it always was, and the same as it will be forever

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about you staying up in women’s mentions telling them how they think and feel; as if you’d know better than them how they are.

Hey if you use something that is obviously false as an argument dont expect me to just leave it as is.

i’m not a mutant, i’m a human being.

Exactly. But if you aren't a mutant you have human female sexuality which means you don't find niceness sexually attractive. On the contrary actually. You aren't a special snowflake and humans aren't a blank state. You didn't suddenly decide to find dicks attractive just like you didn't decide to find niceness sexually attractive. Since the above is true and you still claim that you find niceness attractive, there are three possible explanations . You are lying (which I don't believe) , you are a mutant (HIGHLY unlikely) or you just lack self awareness.

It's quite simple.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

except that’s bullshit. me stating what i like isn’t an argument, it’s what i like. i would know what i like more than a stranger on the internet would.

you have a narrow view of female sexuality. men don’t know shit about female sexuality anyways.

i’ve found kindness in a man attractive since i literally started finding boys and men attractive. that’s something about me that’s never changed since i was 13 years old. no, i’m not a special snowflake. like i said, i couldn’t possibly be the only woman on planet earth who is more attracted to men who treat me well.

if i choose every romantic partner i have based on how well he treats me and how good he makes me feel, then that’s proof i find kindness attractive. because i do. no i’m not a mutant, no i’m not lying, and no i’m lacking in self-awareness just because you think it’s impossible for a woman to want to be with a man who is kind to her.

how does a person even prove they’re self-aware? for all i know, i’m right to say you’re just projecting and you’re not self-aware. i didn’t bring up the ego to be insulting, i brought it up because i believe it’s true.

my ego just isn’t so huge and i’m not so self-righteous as to think 1) my opinions are facts just because i think they are, and 2) i know people better than they know themselves.

[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

me stating what i like isn’t an argument, it’s what i like.

It's a type of argument called anecdote.

if i choose every romantic partner i have based on how well he treats me and how good he makes me feel, then that’s proof i find kindness attractive

And yet, not only have I observed literally zero women like that, studies don't support anything close to that. In fact they support the opposite. So you either aren't like those other women (mutant?) or you aren't self aware. Which isn't exactly rare , most women and even a lot of men lack awareness.

and no i’m lacking in self-awareness just because you think it’s impossible for a woman to want to be with a man who is kind to her.

I don't think it's impossible for you to like a man who is kind to you. I think it's impossible for you to find him more sexually attractive because of his kindness.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

i wasn’t attempting to argue with the person i was responding to, i was just commenting on what i personally like.

And yet, not only have I observed literally zero women like that, studies don't support anything close to that. In fact they support the opposite. So you either aren't like those other women (mutant?) or you aren't self aware. Which isn't exactly rare , most women and even a lot of men lack awareness.

doesn’t matter. a study can say 50 out of 60 applicants like guys who treat them like shit, there’s still 10 who don’t. which means things don’t just exist in absolutes. those 10 women aren’t lacking in self-awareness just because they’re not the same as the other 50.

link a study that shows women don’t like kind men. and no, don’t link a study about dark triad men, link a study that’s specifically pertains to how women react to men who are kind to them.

I don't think it's impossible for you to like a man who is kind to you. I think it's impossible for you to find him more sexually attractive because of his kindness.

except i do. if i don’t, explain why i want to have sex with a man more when he’s being kind to me and i don’t want to have sex with men who don’t treat me kindly.

romantic attraction helps sexual attraction, believe it or not.

[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

like guys who treat them like shit, there’s still 10 who don’t. which means things don’t just exist in absolutes

No, it means more than one factors determine attractiveness. Niceness isn't one of them.

You are basically arguing for the blank slate worldview,which is highly inaccurate.Just like me liking women is biologically determined so is you finding niceness a sexual turn off.

don’t link a study about dark triad men, link a study that’s specifically pertains to how women react to men who are kind to them.

... why? If dark triad men are shown as more attractive then the kind men are less attractive.

explain why i want to have sex with a man more when he’s being kind to me and i don’t want to have sex with men who don’t treat me kindly.

It's simple. This doesn't actually happen.

romantic attraction helps sexual attraction, believe it or not.

You go it backwards. Sexual attraction creates romantic attraction.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, it means more than one factors determine attractiveness. Niceness isn't one of them.

to you.

obviously more than one factor determines attractiveness, but people find different things attractive. yes, there are women who exist who find kindness attractive. i’m sorry if the only women you’ve ever encountered are low rmv who are attracted to dysfunction.

You are basically arguing for the blank slate worldview,which is highly inaccurate.Just like me liking women is biologically determined so is you finding niceness a sexual turn off.

except i don’t find it to be a turn off. i know what gets me tingling and what doesn’t.

what you like about women isn’t only biologically determined, it’s also influenced by external factors and experience. if all men liked the same things in women, there wouldn’t be men who like read relationships and men who don’t. there wouldn’t be men who like high maintenance girls and men who don’t.

you act like people are all the same just because some studies say “look at this trend,” and you just completely ignore the outliers. the outliers prove that things don’t exist in absolutes, whether or not you want to accept it.

... why? If dark triad men are shown as more attractive then the kind men are less attractive.

no, i want to see a study done specifically about how women react to a man’s kindness. i will not believe that no woman is attracted to kindness until i see a study that directly proves this.

It's simple. This doesn't actually happen.

in your opinion.

clearly, my experience is different. you’re not gonna gaslight me into thinking my reality isn’t reality because you don’t like that it challenges your beliefs.

You go it backwards. Sexual attraction creates romantic attraction.

nah. i’ve dated guys i didn’t initially find physically attractive and my romantic attraction to them gave room for sexual attraction to grow where it wasn’t before.

[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

but people find different things attractive. yes, there are women who exist who find kindness

what you like about women isn’t only biologically determined, it’s also influenced by external factors and experience

Only on a very superficial level. A blondes vs brunettes thing. Sure some might like blondes better than brunettes but they'll still like a hot brunette better than an ugly fat blonde. What we are talking about is basic part of female sexuality. So no, there aren't women who are sexually attracted to kindness just like there aren't women who are sexually attracted to short height or low status.

If you think sexuality is that malleable I guess you believe gay conversion camps also work?

no, i want to see a study done specifically about how women react to a man’s kindness.

Well, you want that but no one actually cares. If we show that women are sexually into assholes more than kindness then it stands to reason they don't like kindness as these traits are mutually exclusive.

i will not believe that no woman is attracted to kindness until i see a study that directly proves this.

Want us to measure the moisture in their pussies or put hidden cams in their purses? All the evidence we have points to the direction that they like assholes. You thinking you are special doesn't really say much.

nah. i’ve dated guys i didn’t initially find physically attractive and my romantic attraction to them gave room for sexual attraction to grow where it wasn’t before.

Women sexually desire men for looks, status and game(alpha traits). If his looks didn't change his perception of the other two factors did so you became sexually attracted to him and developed feelings. We can see that this is how it works from the fact that decline in sexual desire PREDICTS marital dissatisfaction for women.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Only on a very superficial level. A blondes vs brunettes thing. Sure some might like blondes better than brunettes but they'll still like a hot brunette better than an ugly fat blonde. What we are talking about is basic part of female sexuality. So no, there aren't women who are sexually attracted to kindness just like there aren't women who are sexually attracted to short height or low status.

sure, but sexual attraction and romantic attraction aren’t mutually exclusive; and, yes, it’s possible for women to find those things romantically attractive. if you know anything about female sexuality, then you’d know that romantic attraction matters and it helps cultivate sexual attraction as well.

except you don’t because you’re not female.

If you think sexuality is that malleable I guess you believe gay conversion camps also work?

i think it’s possible for a person to change what they find attractive, although it’s very difficult.

Well, you want that but no one actually cares. If we show that women are sexually into assholes more than kindness then it stands to reason they don't like kindness as these traits are mutually exclusive.

that’s fine, but if i say i like kindness then that means i like kindness; and i reserve the right to say i think i’m not the only woman on planet earth who feels that way. i didn’t say all women did or most women did, i simply said i couldn’t possibly be the only one. that’s it.

i know, shocking to think women aren’t all the same person!

Want us to measure the moisture in their pussies or put hidden cams in their purses? All the evidence we have points to the direction that they like assholes.

that doesn’t necessarily prove no woman likes men who aren’t asshole though, which is my point. so unless you can prove women are actively rejecting men who are kind to them in droves, i will not accept it as actual fact.

i’m entitled to my opinions. i’m open to being proven wrong though, in fact, i’m inviting you to prove me wrong; that’s why i said find me that specific study, and i’ll believe you.

You thinking you are special doesn't really say much.

my saying “i’m not the only one” is me saying i’m not special. i’d be special if i was the only one.

Women sexually desire men for looks, status and game(alpha traits). If his looks didn't change his perception of the other two factors did so you became sexually attracted to him and developed feelings. We can see that this is how it works from the fact that decline in sexual desire PREDICTS marital dissatisfaction for women.

if each of my exes are below average in looks, broke, and/or passive af; then that kinda disproves your theory, doesn’t it?

women are individuals who each find different things attractive. some women are gold diggers. some women are fine with dating a broke man. some women like muscle-y dudes. some women like skinny dudes. some women like men over 6’ tall. some women don’t care about height that much. people don’t exist as the same person in different bodies just because you think they do.

again, just because a stat says “hey, look at this trend” doesn’t mean it’s true for every single person; as evidenced by married people who have been married for several years and still have sex. like why is it so difficult for you believe things don’t only exist in absolutes?

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It's women, not men, that confuse niceness for weakness/ being a pushover. Which explains why being nice doesn't help with dating at best, and at worst actually hurts your chances with women.

Despite desperately wanting the top dog (ie. the biggest, baddest, strongest, etc...) I've found (as a bouncer) that women are absolutely terrible at figuring it out. They are drawn like flies to showy displays (tattoos, piercings, etc...) when these things are not what makes the best fighter or strongest man.

Often times the toughest guys are quite relaxed, even in seemingly confrontational situations. Not because they are weak, but because they know if shit hits the fan, they'll come out on top.

I saw this dynamic play out dozens of times a night. It wasn't the asshole beating his chest like an ape, jumping around, punching the wall, or smashing his glass that was the real threat (though he was still getting thrown out). It was the quiet guy smiling at it all, or who looks bored/unfazed.

They constantly confuse being nice/calm as being weak/doormat.

[–]reluctantly_red2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]SerpentCypher13 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Nah this is pure projection. Women think men mean that being nice is being a wet blanket, because they are the ones who view niceness through that lens, not men. PPD women have made it sooo clear this is the case.

What men call simps is not simple niceness and civility towards women, it's men treating you a way that they wouldn't treat other men just because you're a woman. What women describe as "being treated nicely" is actually men putting them on a pedestal and treating them with kid gloves. Women have just become so used to preferential treatment that they mistake it for basic manners and decency. When men treat women the same way they treat other men, women call it misogyny or discrimination.

What men mean by niceness- Kind to everyone until given a reason to not be, don't beat up or cheat on your partner, simple stuff.

What women on PPD mistakenly believe men mean by niceness- Be a pushover, put everyone else's needs before your own, never stand up for yourself, put nice tokens somewhere, receive sex as reward.

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have you ever argued with a man, on this very sub, about whether or not being nice to a woman is simping? if not, then don’t tell my experience is projection.

i see men on the internet responding to literally anything a man does for a woman that’s kind as “simping.” last week, a dude commented on the weekly post that he did something kind for a random single mother on the subway and he already assumed men here were gonna call him a simp for it (i believe at least one actually did).

what you’re saying now is projection. i don’t think common decency and being kind is treating me like i’m special or pedestalizing me. that’s not being kind, that’s being a fan. just because you think women believe that doesn’t mean we actually do. i’m sure some do, but there’s also the rest who don’t.

women say “you can be nice without being a pushover” because it seems like some of the men don’t realize that.

like i said: if you’re only ever encountering women who react negatively to your kindness, then you’re going for women with low rmv.

[–]SerpentCypher7 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I interact with men on here all the time.

No, women actually do see preferential treatment as basic decency, as I said when men treat women the way they treat other men, women think they're being rude, mean, or discriminatory. PPD is a clear example of this very phenomenon. On here, the "good, kind nice" men are the Bloop male feminist that side with women on every single issue. Whereas every guy who calls out women on their BS (like men do with other men) are called incels or misogynists.

Women are responding with "OMG, you can be nice without being a pushover" to people who are describing basic niceness. It's almost certainly women who see that and think "weak" because I've never seen a guy on PPD describe himself as a pushover and label it "nice."

That's a lot of defective women then, because almost every (non incel) guy here will most likely attest that they had to learn to be less nice, and learn how to be more cold and aloof, and how that resulted in women reacting more positively towards them.

[–]rft243 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

again, unless you’ve argued with men here specifically about whether or not being nice to a woman is simping, then you don’t get to tell me my experience is projection.

define “basic kindness.” please do.

because “basic kindness” is not “preferential treatment.” it’s just giving people basic respect. any woman with a working brain will tell you that.

On here, the "good, kind nice" men are the Bloop male feminist that side with women on every single issue. Whereas every guy who calls out women on their BS (like men do with other men) are called incels or misogynists.

and every woman who calls men out is called a feminist and misandrist. that’s just how this place works. people here think in absolutes.

Women are responding with "OMG, you can be nice without being a pushover" to people who are describing basic niceness. It's almost certainly women who see that and think "weak" because I've never seen a guy on PPD describe himself as a pushover and label it "nice."

i disagree. i’ve def seen a dude describe himself as a pushover and label it nice lmao

That's a lot of defective women then, because almost every (non incel) guy here will most likely attest that they had to learn to be less nice, and learn how to be more cold and aloof, and how that resulted in women reacting more positively towards them.

if you define positive attention as getting casual sex with women who are attracted to dysfunction, sure.

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Yep back when I was a degenerate porn watcher I remember coming across a erotic audio vid of mostly DD/LG. Super dominant dirty talk and just hyper aggressive masculine sex.

The comments were filled with woman saying “that’s the hardest I’ve ever came” “I came so fassttt” “this gets me so incredibly horny like nothing else compares” “I came with not stimulation” “I came so hard when daddy told me to come.” “I will never be able to enjoy normal sexual again” “I can feel his voice in my pussy” “This gets me so fucking wet”

It was insane to see since woman never comment that in normal porn. For woman psychological stimulation is wayyy more important than physical and visual they don’t react the same way men do for the most part. Any type of submissive porn videos are the ones woman watch. They also gravitate towards erotic lit due to the dirty talk aspect.

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Sex gets way better as you get older. CMV

I'm older and no. I mean I have "better" sex but I've been there done that. I've made the holy unholy and holy again. It gets harder to have "exciting" sex once you've made it normal.

Last Nov, I went on vacation (oh noze the covid oh noze) and met a woman with my wife who I ended up teabagging as she was under my wife and I was doing her doggie style and they were 69ing. Great porn worthy sex, one of the better experiences but not as exciting as the first time I had sex, which was awkward and over very fast. Not as good as my first bad BJ from my 18 gf now wife, not even as exciting as my first FMF.

Basically the threshold changes, so while you are better at sex, maybe have more interesting sex, its nothing like when the whole idea was new.

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The problem isn't just in the fertility decline, but in the risks increase. There's a link between mother's age and down syndrome

A 25-year-old woman has a one in 1,200 chance of having a baby with Down syndrome. By 35 years of age, the risk increases to one in 350—and it becomes one in 100 by age 40.

https://www.parents.com/health/down-syndrome/are-you-at-risk-of-having-a-baby-with-down-syndrome/

I know that there's a link between father's age and autism, but there are different results about mother's age.

However, a comprehensive analysis found that for a woman over age 35, the chance of having a child with autism is lower than for younger women.

That study also suggested that women under age 25 are more likely to have a child with autism than older women. The finding echoed that of several other studies that reported that teenage mothers also have increased odds of having a child with autism.

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/link-parental-age-autism-explained/#:~:text=However%2C%20a%20comprehensive%20analysis%20found,with%20autism%20than%20older%20women.

So all in all, if you're planning to have kids in your middle-late 30s, freezing some eggs might be a good idea. I'm thinking about it myself :)

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ROTFLMAO!!!! FDS is the exact opposite of the kind of woman who would make a man feel special or fulfill his needs. They're a bunch of forked tongue snakes that openly preach about stringing a man along and making him wait for sex while secretly fucking Chad on the side.

FDS even has this in their manual

Go on dates where you’re likely to encounter a lot of male mate competion. Sporting events are at the top of the list, but this can be any event or activity where men are likely to be “peacocking” for females and posturing for other men.

FDS women are openly deceptive and manipulative as fuck. This squarely places them in the realm of emotional abusers. Only a fool believes what they say about great sex, housework and fulfilling his needs. These are all lies. Once they get their meathooks into a man they will financially bleed him dry and tell him to absolutely fuck all the way the fuck off if he wants her to do any traditionally female roles for him.

FDS women have to shed their scales after every relationship so as to not be recognized. FDS women feed on bank accounts and courtship and shit out mountains of credit card debt and dead bedrooms.

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Is this how it looks like when TRPers and incels complain that they are unfairly being called creepy for being ugly?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/n0y0pi/absolute_creep_approaches_teenager_while_on_live/gw9n1o6?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

Here's a 25-30 year old guy hitting on a very young teenage girl by constantly ignoring her social cues and trying to push through her boundaries. She's clearly terrified of him, yet he continues to try to push for a conversation.

That's clearly creepy behavior, yet in the comments you will find plenty of guys complaining that he's unfairly called creepy and that his behavior was perfectly appropriate.

Do TRPers and incels complain that they get called creepy for being getting ugly, because they literally can't tell that their PUA tricks are creepy as fuck?

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i have a hard time just labeling him a creep for being persistent and bad at reading social cues.

I was in an extremely male-dominated STEM field and knew tons of guys not good at reading social cues. They weren't creeps-- they were awkward. And there's a world of difference. Awkward guys didn't smoothly come up with explanations when challenged by a social cue they didn't expect or understand like "oh, I didn't say you could sit here", and didn't dodge direct explicit comments like that smoothly. And hell, this guy even says "I see your hesitancy". Yup, he's reading her cues just fine, he just doesn't care. He is at least moderately aware of social cues, and tries to argue his way around them.

And he doesn't wander off topic trying to talk about his favorite interest like an awkward guy who doesn't read social cues well enough to know when to shut up; this guy stayed on his mission of chatting her up until he realized he was being recorded

I get that some women are too quick to label awkward guys as creeps, but I'm not one of those women. This guy is not a socially awkward turbo nerd. He

you never went to hs with dudes that were very developed?

They still talked like teenagers, with teenager language, even if they had deep voices. And I didn't know a lot of 15 year olds with deep baritones whose voices were steady, confident and didn't crack ever.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I was in an extremely male-dominated STEM field and knew tons of guys not good at reading social cues. They weren't creeps-- they were awkward. And there's a world of difference. Awkward guys didn't smoothly come up with explanations when challenged by a social cue they didn't expect or understand like "oh, I didn't say you could sit here", and didn't dodge direct explicit comments like that smoothly. And hell, this guy even says "I see your hesitancy". Yup, he's reading her cues just fine, he just doesn't care. He is at least moderately aware of social cues, and tries to argue his way around them.

i actually didn’t hear him say “i see your hesitancy,” i’ll go back and watch it again. if he did, then it now makes sense why people are saying it’s creepy.

And he doesn't wander off topic trying to talk about his favorite interest like an awkward guy who doesn't read social cues well enough to know when to shut up; this guy stayed on his mission of chatting her up until he realized he was being recorded

idk, some guys really do try to be persistent and it works on some women; so they assume it’ll work on the next one too.

and he doesn’t have to be a socially awkward turbo nerd to think it’s okay to be persistent. maybe he thought he could try to make her feel comfortable enough not to be be scared of him, we’ll never know what he was really thinking and what his true intentions were.

They still talked like teenagers, with teenager language, even if they had deep voices. And I didn't know a lot of 15 year olds with deep baritones whose voices were steady, confident and didn't crack ever.

i did. not necessarily 15 years olds (although, there were a few), but hs aged. dude could be like 16 or 17, yeah there’s some who are developed enough to have very deep voices. some of them are so developed, they look like grown men. i went to one of the largest high schools in america, there were many guys like this.

[–]badgersonice1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

and he doesn’t have to be a socially awkward turbo nerd to think it’s okay to be persistent

I agree. I wasn't arguing that every guy who is a little persistent is creepy, just that this guy is because of the way he is persistent. He isn't just awkwardly not figuring out her comment, he's trying to weasel his way around her objection, which is a lot more creepy than a guy who just doesn't even notice them because he's not great at picking up subtleties. And again, "I didn't say you could sit there" is anything but subtle. So yeah, this guy in particular is being more than just a little persistent.

...yeah there’s some who are developed enough to have very deep voices

Most 16 year olds also do not talk like adults... and especially not the ones who are bad at picking up on inflection! This guy just plain does not communicate like an immature high schooler.

You are just fishing for excuses this guy hasn't earned. Save your defenses for the actual awkward guys who deserve the defense. Not every dude called "creep" is some poor misunderstood guy with a heart of gold.

And honestly, even if he were just an awkward, socially inept guy, that still doesn't mean young teenage girls should cater to their needs while feeling uncomfortable or scared. This girl was more than polite-- why is it so cruel to you that other people are calling this unknown dude a "creep"? The word "creep" doesn't mean you know 100% for certain that a guy has evil intentions; the word "creep" is ideally used to mean that a guy is pushing boundaries in a way that makes you comfortable or scared.

It's still fair to call a well-intentioned guy a creep if he's being pushy and making the hairs on the necks of other people stand up. Ideally, being known as a creep would get him to realize his approach technique is damaging and that he needs to learn better social skills. The worst thing for a bumbling awkward guy is for everyone to coddle him and tell him it's fine for him to be aggressive or manipulative and ignore other peoples' boundaries whenever he wants something.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

okay now i heard him say “i see your hesitancy,” and it makes sense now. the guy did sound kinda awkward to me, i don’t think he was talking like he was a 30 yo man and this was his however-many-th time trying to pick up an unsuspecting teenage girl though.

like i said, they could easily be in a school library and he’s also a student. the girl could be colleged aged and just looks young. like we have no way of knowing any of these things for certain based off a short video with no other context.

i’m not trying to make excuses, i just don’t think it’s fair to label a guy as creepy as a pedo for trying to approach a girl. i went back and heard that he knew he was making the girl uncomfortable, and yes that’s not okay, of course i’m not gonna excuse that; but to go as far as insinuating that he’s a pedo without any context isn’t cool either.

i imagine he’d still be labeled creepy if he was just awkward or just didn’t realize he was making her uncomfortable or was just terrible at picking up social cues. i just don’t think it’s fair.

i don’t think it’s cruel, and i don’t think she should have to cater to his needs either. i think she should’ve been more direct, but she’s young so i understand why that’s difficult for her.

i agree, we shouldn’t coddle men for engaging in bad behavior. i just don’t think shaming them is the right way to go about it. shaming doesn’t work long-term, it just gets people to get better at hiding their bad behavior or masking it as something more acceptable.

[–]badgersonice1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

i don’t think he was talking like he was a 30 yo man and this was his however-many-th time trying to pick up an unsuspecting teenage girl though.

I didn't say 30s. I think he sounded like he was possibly high or hung over guy in his 20s, not a kindly awkward teenage boy but agree to disagree.

like i said, they could easily be in a school library and he’s also a student.

Watch again. At 1:30 her uncle asks "are you alright? You ok?" (he later says "that's my niece"). So no, they are not at the school library. And yeah, her uncle recognized something was off too.

i’m not trying to make excuses,

Yeah, you are making excuses. You are continuing to defend this guy with a bunch of possible reasons why maybe this guy is just a nice awkward guy, and how maybe they're in the school library and he's just saying "hi" and everyone is overreacting!

i just don’t think it’s fair to label a guy as creepy as a pedo for trying to approach a girl.

And now you're also misrepresenting what I've said entirely in your quest to defend a pretty obvious creep.

I have not called him a pedo, and I did not call him creepy just for trying to approach a girl. Stop misrepresenting what I said, it's disingenuous. I have explained multiple times why I think this specific guy is creepy, and none of my explanations were because he fucking walked up and said "hi". I don't think walking up and saying "hi" isn't creepy, so stop trying to paint me like I'm the shallow chick labeling every decent guy a "creep".

Don't group decent socially awkward guys in with this skeeze ball-- decent socially awkward guys are not manipulative like this guy.

shaming doesn’t work long-term, it just gets people to get better at hiding their bad behavior or masking it as something more acceptable.

The regular decent awkward guys respond strongly to shaming, actually, and generally feel bad about making people uncomfortable. These guys do want to change and do better, and it would be beneficial to them to know when they've made someone feel scared. And honestly, the decent guys will really feel shame about that regardless of what specific word you use.

I'm not saying calling a guy a "creep" is an act of charity, but it's way better than playing the "oh, maybe he's still just an awkward kid who can't read the room" game you're playing here, even though I've shown you multiple reasons to believe he really really isn't.

And yeah, calling a real intentional creep a creep won't do anything to fix him... but it will, of course, warn others of a creep's behavior. There's value in warning your friends to avoid being alone around a manipulative guy who pushes boundaries and makes you feel scared.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Watch again. At 1:30 her uncle asks "are you alright? You ok?" (he later says "that's my niece"). So no, they are not at the school library. And yeah, her uncle recognized something was off too.

see, you picked up on things i didn’t even hear or see. i didn’t know her uncle was even there, i didn’t even hear that the first couple times i watched the video.

is it that hard to believe a person can miss something? jesus christ, lady.

Yeah, you are making excuses. You are continuing to defend this guy with a bunch of possible reasons why maybe this guy is just a nice awkward guy, and how maybe they're in the school library and he's just saying "hi" and everyone is overreacting!

because that’s what i perceived the situation to be at first glance.

you seem to be kinda riled up about this, did i offend you or something?

And now you're also misrepresenting what I've said entirely in your quest to defend a pretty obvious creep.

I have not called him a pedo, and I did not call him creepy just for trying to approach a girl. Stop misrepresenting what I said, it's disingenuous. I have explained multiple times why I think this specific guy is creepy, and none of my explanations were because he fucking walked up and said "hi". I don't think walking up and saying "hi" isn't creepy, so stop trying to paint me like I'm the shallow chick labeling every decent guy a "creep".

i didn’t say you said that. i said it’s not fair to call him that or insinuate it just for trying to approach a girl, that was just a general statement.

i’m not sure why you’re taking this so personally.

and yes, you are insinuating he’s a pedophile by mentioning his age in comparison to hers. now it’s fine because it seems like this may be true, now that i’ve watched the video a few times; but if he was around her age, then you just insinuated he’s a pedo and he very well may not have been. you’re being intellectually dishonest by acting like you weren’t insinuating that with your insistence that he’s an adult.

Don't group decent socially awkward guys in with this skeeze ball-- decent socially awkward guys are not manipulative like this guy.

okay, and i didn’t see that he was being manipulative upon first watching the video. my motherfucking bad.

The regular decent awkward guys respond strongly to shaming, actually, and generally feel bad about making people uncomfortable. These guys do want to change and do better, and it would be beneficial to them to know when they've made someone feel scared. And honestly, the decent guys will really feel shame about that regardless of what specific word you use.

of course it would be good to let them know, but i don’t agree that shaming is helpful. it would be just as helpful to directly tell them what they’re doing isn’t cool, and instruct them on how to correct it.

I'm not saying calling a guy a "creep" is an act of charity, but it's way better than playing the "oh, maybe he's still just an awkward kid who can't read the room" game you're playing here, even though I've shown you multiple reasons to believe he really really isn't.

no, you’re just weirdly assuming i have negative intentions and i’m trying to excuse a man for being a creep when i’m just saying i didn’t see him as a creep upon first watching the video.

do you always assume people who disagree with you have some malicious agenda they’re pushing or something?

And yeah, calling a real intentional creep a creep won't do anything to fix him... but it will, of course, warn others of a creep's behavior. There's value in warning your friends to avoid being alone around a manipulative guy who pushes boundaries and makes you feel scared.

i can’t disagree with that.

[–]badgersonice1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

see, you picked up on things i didn’t even hear or see. i didn’t know her uncle was even there, i didn’t even hear that the first couple times i watched the video....is it that hard to believe a person can miss something? jesus christ, lady.

Don't get so upset I didn't scold you for not catching that. I just told you to watch again for a specific thing that I didn't catch the first time through either. This is not worth a "Jesus Christ, lady!".

I know you wanted to watch this and see the very best intentions in the guy and defend the genuinely nice but awkward guys who unjustly get called a creep. But I'm pointing out that it doesn't apply to this guy.

i didn’t say you said that. i said it’s not fair to call him that or insinuate it just for trying to approach a girl, that was just a general statement... i’m not sure why you’re taking this so personally.

I think it was reasonable of me to assume this was in response to my comments, because it was buried in many other of your points that did directly addressing my arguments. I really don't think this was a general statement though, I think you were exaggerating what you saw to defend your point of view and make my point of view sound unreasonable so that it fit your picture of people unfairly labeling decent guys as creeps over nothing.

But me saying you misrepresented my argument isn't taking it personally-- I didn't think you insulted me personally. I thought I didn't take it personally, I took it as you misrepresenting my argument.

okay, and i didn’t see that he was being manipulative upon first watching the video. my motherfucking bad.

Stop getting upset about this. I was explaining what I saw, and telling you why I think this particular guy doesn't deserve your sympathy. I didn't yell at you or insult you, so I don't know why you're getting so pissed off at me. I just explained my points with evidence and countered yours because I think I'm right about this guy... and it looks like you agree now that you've listened a bit more closely to the parts I was highlighting. That's how a debate is supposed to work.

do you always assume people who disagree with you have some malicious agenda they’re pushing or something?

No, but that seems to be what you are doing so right now to me. I assumed nothing malicious about your defense here. Just that you are mistaken in thinking this was a nice guy, and that you were very eager to find some way to imagine this was a nice guy.

no, you’re just weirdly assuming i have negative intentions and i’m trying to excuse a man for being a creep when i’m just saying i didn’t see him as a creep upon first watching the video.

No, I just think you're being overly eager to see the good in someone who is showing the signs of not being a well-intentioned decent guy who's a little dumb about social signals.

I do think you are pushing the agenda of "please don't call decent guys creeps just because they're awkward", but for goodness sakes, I don't actually think awkward guys are bad people or that they are even usually creepy. All I'm arguing is that it is also appropriate to call some guys, like this one, a real creep.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

i mean maybe it’s just the way i’m interpreting your comments, but you seem to be very emotionally invested in this. i’m not upset, just confused.

i really meant that statement generally, because you’re not the only person making these accusation.

never said you insulted or yelled at me, never said i was pissed off. it’s not really what you say, it’s how you say it. the way you’re insistent about this man’s creepiness just struck me as odd; and even if i did think he wasn’t being creepy, i’m entitled to holding that opinion if i so wish.

people don’t have to agree in debates.

you literally said i was “playing a game,” insinuating i had an agenda. you didn’t say it as if i was mistaken, you said it as if i was going out of my way to defend awful men.

and yeah, i think it’s fair to say it’s not cool to call a decent guy a creep just cuz you don’t like him or don’t like that he’s approaching a woman and has the audacity to be awkward. many times, people do call a decent guy a creep for that; excuse me for being a bit defensive of well-meaning men.

[–]badgersonice1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

i mean maybe it’s just the way i’m interpreting your comments, but you seem to be very emotionally invested in this

I’m not really about the topic or your position. I do find some of your debate tactics frustrating and annoying (like how now, you’re trying to claim I’m just soo upset. I don’t even really see how you’d get that, other then my annoyance when I felt you had misrepresented my argument?)

i’m entitled to holding that opinion if i so wish.

You are. Just as I am allowed to argue against your opinion... especially in a debate sub. This isn’t a hug box.

people don’t have to agree in debates.

Yeah, in fact they usually don’t at the start. But that doesn’t mean just saying “welp, we disagree, no discussion, good day!”. I didn’t insist you agree with me, but I do think your initial comment was wrong and I argued why. You are allowed to still disagree of course, but it’s also okay if the debate ends with someone changing their mind (what I was saying above).

you literally said i was “playing a game,” insinuating i had an agenda.

Yes, I think your agenda was: “to say it’s not cool to call a decent guy a creep just cuz you don’t like him or don’t like that he’s approaching a woman and has the audacity to be awkward”. Which I argued wasn’t really relevant in this specific case, because the guy wasn’t in the category of “you don’t like him or don’t like that he’s approaching a woman and has the audacity to be awkward”. I think you were overly focused on your agenda, and not seeing the specifics of this case, so you were searching for ways for why this guy fit your agenda by arguing that maybe this guy was really just a lost kid who didn’t know how to talk to girls. And I argued why this specific guy shouldn’t be counted in your concerns. There really are some dudes who are creeps— not all guys called creep are called that unfairly.

i think it’s fair to say it’s not cool to call a decent guy a creep just cuz you don’t like him or don’t like that he’s approaching a woman and has the audacity to be awkward

I agree on this: I certainly don’t call guys creeps just because they’re awkward. I just also think awkward and manipulative (I.e. using being family awkward as a cover) are often easier to distinguish than you think.

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Ime eccentric, unique men do just fine when a. they pay attention to their looks b. they don't do the shit they do halfway c. they actively put effort into meeting women who like their niche. It's most effective when they're weird and kinda crazy and they don't care if people have a problem with it.

The "unique, quirky" men who don't get attention are the ones who, for whatever reason, fail at one or more of the above. Many want to cosplay as a generic vanilla guy in daily life while occasionally throwing out quirky tokens and hope women will sense his "uniqueness" through ESP or some shit.

I have met so many guys who ask where all the "geeky" women are, I ask if they've gone to any sci-fi or anime conventions or joined a DnD group and they'll be like "no that's too weird." They still want to keep a foot on both sides; that's a great way to be attractive to neither.

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These things are still predominantly male

Good thing not all of those guys are interested in women or sex at all for that matter, while others may already be in a committed relationship. You are not literally fighting to the death with every other male at that event for women.

Not to mention the fact that these women say that they dont want to be approached and the guys youre talking about are too beta to ignore that

"Approached" is an extremely vague term that means different things to different people. For some it's so much as starting up a convo with a woman who happens to be attractive to you while for others it's more like aggressive flirting off the bat. Women who say they don't want to be approached at those kinds of events are generally talking about the latter.

At cons it is perfectly normal for strangers, yes both men and women, to start conversations with strangers. I know multiple women who met their SO's at conventions, knowing how to talk to people about things you have in common without making them feel uncomfortable isn't "alpha" it's called being a normal person with half-decent social skills. The harassment complaints usually derive from men touching or taking pictures of girls (particularly upskirt shots) without their consent.

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This is going to seem like it’s about him, but it’s a good illustration of how she’s only happy in the most rollercoaster relationships ever. Every relationship has to be as rollercoaster as possible

Please note that she has small children she has subjected to this whole thing. She has fucked then up completely

She’s also a mod on a number of relationship subs and boards where people take her advice

For pure batshittery, cheating on and subsequently leaving her stable, law enforcement ex-husband for a meth addicted conman

Marrying him and putting herself in bankruptcy to buy him shit

Standing by him when he into her house and stole her credit cards

Standing by him when he did the same at my dads house and stole dads car

Only getting a divorce after an incident involving my dad holding a gun to this guys head, then the guy fleeing and a multi-state manhunt complete w wanted posters

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I tried making this into a post once but it was caught by the filters and the mods never approved it.

I think that sexual selection in dimorphic species ultimately molds the opposite sex into what the selector wants. All physical and behavioral characteristics that represent what it beneficial for or to the selector are passed on, so it becomes a matter of what men and women want in a mate that both sexes end up as who they are, and this isn't something that stops either. It is constantly happening, and both sides are being refined.

I feel like this also proves the dumb claims made by guys with a victim mentality when they say "w0mEn ArE tHe SeLeCtOrS." If women were the selectors, our species would resemble the peacock, but it seems like both men and women have their attractive qualities that either side is picking and refining by way of keeping them existent in our progeny.

Maybe we'll reach a point in evolution where women are walking mouths that don't speak, with various sized tits and butts while men are all walking washboard abs with wide shoulders and 8 inch dicks that shoot out $100 bills instead of sperm.

-flushes toilet-

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I think it really depends on location and a few other important factors like individual capability. No matter how smart or attractive you are, you probably aren't going to survive or be successful if you were stuck in the middle of the Sahara desert. Likewise, someone who's ugly and dumb or was born with a few extra chromosomes would eventually hit a success ceiling even if they were surrounded with all of the tools to be successful. Some people just draw an unlucky hand or get stuck in a bad location and there isn't much that they may be able to do about it, while others are just drawn a lucky hand. That's life. Here in this sub, or on the internet in general, you might get to see someone who has a life different from yours and you can't understand why they're having problems while you aren't, and the answer would be because the world and the people in it aren't the same everywhere.

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LinkedIn specifically is a professional network.

LinkedIn is a social media platform with a focus on professional networks, but has moved away from that.

I thought LinkedIn was used to find a job, instead all you get is a group circle jerk. People with 20+ years of experience sucking off a person with 30+ years of experience. I see posts about people’s kids on there now. Getting a job from LinkedIn is probably rare.

However, LinkedIn has the same set up as tinder. The first thing people post on tinder is their picture, possible location, education and career which leads to their income and social status. LinkedIn has all the information people care about in a future partner.

I’m all for LinkedIn being used as a sophisticated platform to find careers. I think people encourage the social media network circle jerks but wants it to stop at dating like the social media aspect won’t make it a product of dating intrigue.

Almost like FB is tinder and bumble is LinkedIn these days.

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maybe, but it doesn't make the observation false.

Well the guy who stalked me across three different platforms when I kept blocking him and sending me dick pics etc was objectively an attractive looking guy, but that didn't stop him from being a totally creepy bellend.

the horror

It's how it's done. It's never at a time that might actually be deemed appropriate. No one needs to be chatted up when they're trying to work their busy customer service job, or on a busy commute, or at the gym with headphones in - hint, if they were open to chatting they probs wouldn't have the headphones in.

I don't know anyone who has." See how that works?

None of the guys seem to have examples of the first one though either. Every time they do give an example, it's always a guy clearly being inappropriate and crossing a line. Never someone just nicely and appropriately shooting their shot and being shouted at/reported/shut down for it. Wonder why that is that no one seems to have examples of that?

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No, they don't need to play a numbers game. They could just not do it. Move on with their life and find something more interesting to do. They will become more interesting as a result and might more naturally find someone they actually like. Instead they just become bitter and frustrated and unhappy.

Do you know how many possible outcomes of your life you re missing out by not approaching, or „just approaching when Im interested“? It‘s infinite.

I don't care. I have never based my value or my happiness on a relationship. I've never looked for them or hoped for them, therefore approaching people I'm not interested in serves no purpose but to waste their time and mine. I also don't actually believe anything good vibes from approaching people you aren't interested in. It's never going to become some great relationship - at best it will be one person settling for the other and then potential years of resentment and unhappiness.

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I get it. I have felt that too..but the weird thing is so many, even probably most people have the exact same complaint!

Yeah I understand that people are only giving back more effort to those who they want to receive from, which is more the point. Everyone's giving their attention and energy to someone else and not always the people who they're receiving it from. For me, I'm only wanting a small group of people that I've known for a long time and are more or less family but I can't even get that, let alone new people.

It’s pretty well documented that most people lose friends as they age, and find it increasingly hard to make new friends as they age. I don’t think it “other people “ so much as the problem, but that we all tend to be more set in our ways as we age.

It’s so endearing to look

I suppose but it's just kind of sad honestly and it's really having an effect on the way I see people in general, which also then makes it hard to want to keep trying and hoping for those few that may keep a spot open for you. A life spent without having others to enjoy it with is a pretty lonely life, and even with success and accomplishments, having nobody there makes it feel empty.

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My comment got cut off, but it’s endearing to see little kids size each other up and decide to be friends in 3 minutes. Before they learn rejection, disappointment, and before they are set in their ways

Yeah. Sometimes I wish it was more like that and I think people really choose to be the way they are. It's not an "old vs young" problem, in my opinion.

You are close to 30 right?

I'll be 33 at the end of the year.

Do you do anything to broaden your social circle?

I try, but like I said, most of those efforts have only ended the same way and with me not wanting to try so much anymore. Most of the women I've met have either just wanted to fuck me or were looking for a partner, and moved on when I didn't have sex with them or they found a partner. Guy friends are cool to hang out with but I don't relate to the average guy too well, so that's the issue in a nutshell.

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You're be surprised. If you keep going out and meeting people, youre always forming groups and circles of friends/ acquaintances.

That's usually ended with me keeping up most, if not all of the conversation and if I don't contact them first, then I never hear from them at all and that's the end of it. I wish I could be surprised but its honestly not surprising anymore. I'd be really surprised if I could find people who were more enthusiastic about and interested in meeting others, but that's just not how it is.

When you find individuals that you connect with particularly well, a close friendship is inevitable.

Yeah, that's also the problem. It's not easy for me to relate to others unless we have or do something in common, like work or whatever. Plus I'm getting older so it becomes more difficult to even bridge that gap with people who work their career job and have a typical adult life.

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idk if i’d call it happy, but i’m definitely content. could i be doing better? absolutely, but i could also be doing much worse. i’m hoping things will continue to get better for me though.

at least i’m not depressed anymore, my relationship is still going strong (with my dream guy, no less), i still have a support system, i still have a safety net, my finances aren’t complete shit, i finally got my license and a car, and i’ve finally figured out what i wanna do with myself concerning a career. i’m doing a lot better than i was this time last year or the year before, for sure.

side-note: it is exhausting to be that level of miserable all the time. i used to be, before i began therapy; and i used to be like a lot of these folks: bitter, hating groups of people i didn’t know, and scapegoating because i didn’t want to accept that i was contributing to my own misery. i didn’t wanna help myself, i just wanted everything to be fixed for me.

when you feel miserable, it also makes you feel lonely; which is why miserable folks go out of their way to troll and upset others. it sucks seeing other people not be miserable like you and it creates a jealousy in you that makes you want to hurt them, so they can be hurt like you. it makes you want to seek vengeance on anyone who is remotely similar to the person who hurt you.

it’s the same reason a person who was bullied can then go on to bully others, or a person who was abused can later become an abuser.

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Most common complaints I have seen are

like lull said Twitch being more leaneant when applying rules to them.
sexual content not belonging on Twitch in the first place
making it harder for new male or female streamers to get noticed. Basically being a booby streamer is unlikely to make you in the top 10 but it makes it easy to get into the low/mid range where you're actually making ok money and its harder for non-tit streamers to get a footing.

At the end of the day it's a two sided coin, women have a much easier time having sex and monetizing their sexuality than men do but yall are also more likely to be criticized or judged for doing so. I think the dynamics are related. Unless we somehow get to the point where men can have sex and monetize their bodies to women as easily as women can I think women will always get some level of criticism/judgement for abusing those advantages.

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Nah I think most people will side with the potential rape victim over siding with the potential false accuse victim. I mean it makes sense right... you don't wanna be the one to insinuate a potential rape victim is lying, even if no charges are filed (because that does not necessarily mean she was lying)

Regardless, once an accusation is made against you, even if you were proven innocent (which is probably unlikely since its hard to prove innocence in a rape case especially if you had consensual sex with the accuser), people you know will see you differently. Probably won't get invited to parties/weddings/gatherings etc. The only exception to this will be your parents, your closest 1-2 ride or die best friends, and your dog lol

Look on the bright side tho, you can always build a new social circle who knows nothing about your past, good or bad. Life is all about how you respond to adversity.

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The Spanish flu was a massive pandemic in 1918.

I was referring to the common flu, you are being disingenuous.

COVID-19 is novel, affects different bodies in myriad ways that look more to me like an auto-immune disorder than a “flu” or “cold”, and there was no vaccine from it until 2021 the majority.

Actually it's a mutation of the original SARS, hence it's original designation SARS-COV-19, and now SARS-COV-2 (they like playing around with their names...). It's not unlike the flu or common cold, in that it mutates constantly. Any vaccine made today would be ineffective in a few months time. It's why there is no vaccine for the common cold, and why they need a new flu vaccine every year, and why the current COVID vaccines are already out of date.

This is how many viruses work. The get everywhere, and then mutate into more benign versions over time. They move from deadly to annoying and then sort of just stagnate.

I know several people in my network (ages 39 through 65) who have died from COVID. I’ve never known a single person in my life who has died from the flu or from a cold.

I believe numbers over anecdotal data.

I traveled all 2020 and was fine because I did things like wear masks and kept it to baecations not large functions.

And, statistically speaking, if you're under the age of 40 and female, you could have gone without a mask and licked every public toilet seat you came across and still wouldn't have died from COVID.

The numbers you ran aren’t holistic if you think this has affected people like the flu does seasonally. Maybe eventually it’ll get to that, but hard disagree that’s been the experience past 18 months.

The round the clock media sensationalization and fearmongering ensures that it affects people worse.

The masks/lockdowns have had no effect. We should approach COVID the way we do every other virus, using methods that have been scientifically proven to work (not just dreamt up by media/politicians).

Wash your hands/use hand sanitizer (it's still the primary method of viral transmission). Get outside (you mention the Spanish Flu, you might want to read up on the difference in death rates of those treated indoors vs those allowed outside), exercise, eat healthy, sleep well, reduce stress.

The BEST defense we have against any viral invader is first and foremost, a healthy immune system. And the vast majority of the 'preventative measures' for COVID are causing more deaths than they are preventing.

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I can only assume you have zero in your network who are HCPs or who have been affected.

I know many HCPs.

The local ERs/clinics are backlogged from the long screening times it takes people to get in. Those working inside are bored, the 'influx' of critical COVID patients promised has never arrived. Entire wings are basically dead, no one to treat. We have a cardiac surgeon who lives down the street and is bored out of his mind because all his surgeries have been canceled for months, apparently no one gets heart disease anymore?

You keep likening it to the flu but no one I know has died or been ICU’d from the flu.

Just because you don't know anyone, doesn't mean it doesn't happen often. Many people in ICU actually die of mundane diseases, it's just not a big deal because if they didn't die of the cold or the flu, they'd have died of heart failure in a day or two anyways.

Just look at local death statistics, after things like cancer, heart disease, and metabolic diseases, simple viruses are actually quite a common cause of death among older people.

All viruses, even the mundane ones, are very deadly if your immune system is shot. The best defense against viruses is a healthy immune system. What makes an immune system healthy? Getting outside, exercising, eating healthy, low stress, good sleep, etc... What does fear mongering, quarantining, lockdowns, etc... do? The exact opposite. These measures are going to cause more deaths than they prevent.

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The numbers clearly show that it's worse than the flu

Actually they don't. I could post my own but then people flip out when they differ from the media's. So at this point I just suggest people run the numbers for themselves so we can compare as intelligent and rational adults.

Course we know they won't, as asking people to 'think for themselves' and not act like good little sheeple is clearly blasphemous. But it's still funny watching them bleat away none the less.

With lots of precautions it's still worse than the flu without any.

None of which have any medical basis. The lockdowns, quarantines, 6-feet apart rule, have no scientific basis. They were invented by the media/politicians. No one has run studies on them, they are not part of any medical protocol, there's no evidence that these procedures have any positive effect on a healthy populace.

The government is not following medical protocols.

[–]Slyfer_Seven3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You should of just stuck with lockdowns...

The Spanish Flu is well documented and multiple studies have been done to show what worked and did not during that pandemic. Lockdowns are notably absent, which lends itself to the criticism of whether they actually do anything, but the rest, such as the quarantines and social distancing measures were done before and shown to have positive effects on reducing the spread of the disease.

So to say there is no evidence of these measures working and they are not part of any medical protocol is taking it too far, but knowing you, "medical protocol" has to meet some unnecessarily complex criteria for you to accept it.

Here's some of what was done during the Spanish Flu pandemic in NYC, there are definite similarities and also notable differences https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862336/

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Actually they don't. I could post my own but then people flip out when they differ from the media's. So at this point I just suggest people run the numbers for themselves so we can compare as intelligent and rational adults.

Not posting your numbers is literally the very opposite of acting like intelligent and rational adults.

None of which have any medical basis. The lockdowns, quarantines, 6-feet apart rule, have no scientific basis. They were invented by the media/politicians. No one has run studies on them, they are not part of any medical protocol, there's no evidence that these procedures have any positive effect on a healthy populace.

The government is not following medical protocols.

Source: r/conspiracy

If you want to talk about medical protocols you should rely on those and not on your feelings and opinions.

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I think those ppl were likely already a sick/weak.

Perhaps for some. But that is my point. A “cold” or “flu” didn’t take them out or send them to ICU even if they weren’t in perfect health. Covid did.

I’m not saying it doesn’t exist or whatever but I think it’s highly highly overblown. The financial consequences my generation will live due to this will have a much larger effect than the deaths.

They say this every 10 years with a new major crisis. I graduated college in 2009. I was told the same.

The only ppl I know who have died during the pandemic due to Rona was an elderly woman in my street (86) & a man who had an already awful immune system (chemo & mid 50s)

The people i’m speaking of were not elderly and not on chemo. My friend’s aunt was recently on chemo and got covid. And is fine.

We have different observations.

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There are a lot of very, very intelligent conservatives out there. People whose ideas I may not agree with, but I can respect their opinion and how they developed their opinions

Trump is a whole different type, however. I’m constantly amazed at the very intelligent people I know who bought into his shit

Honestly, I think he lucked out - FOX News had been priming the conservative base for years, and then the introduction of Newsmax and OANN basically introduced a new brand of yellow journalism that catered to conservatives. FOX essentially had to step up its editorializing because it was losing viewers who didn’t like that it wasn’t as opinionated as the other two

I knew Trump was in trouble when I saw the surveys showing his falling support among the military - it is very, very hard for a Republican president to lose military support, but Trump managed to

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Well, for starters, giving massive tax cuts to the already wealthy and corporations.

I don't like taxes so good. Tax "cuts" are just incentives to keep corporations here where we have regulations instead of 3rd world countries.

His insane aluminum trade war with Canada.

Canada is owned by China. Seems necessary. Bring production back to the US.

His trade war with China that hurt America way more than them.

Bring production back to the US.

The cluster fuck handling of the pandemic.

Lol Biden called him closing travel racist. The China flu isn't that big of a deal, but would've been way worse under other leadership. New York Democrats encouraging people to go out to Chinatown , politicians criticizing Trump rallies while simultaneously praising BLM riots, small businesses getting fucked while Amazon and Walmart make billions. It's hilarious to blame Trump for a pandemic, especially when his opposition would've literally made things worse (I haven't forgotten about those nursing homes).

His stupid wall

Walls work. Ask Israel.

I could go on

Please do. I'm enjoying this.

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Spent around £120 on a new skateboard setup. Bought new wheels, new trucks and new bushings based on the skate shop keepers' recommendations.

I recognised one of them from before (this was early last year) and recognising me his eyes lit up with glee and he exclaimed "Oh, it's you! How have you been man?" I was a bit surprised he remembers me since I last went there more than a year ago.

Anyway, luckily I didn't need to buy a new board because a pro skater gave me one of his old boards for free two years ago after spotting me practicing outside alone around where I live. Such friendly people skaters are.

One of them brought they're dog to the shop (named Jelly) and wouldn't leave me alone after petting him a few times which I found to be adorable.

One of my newly moved in neighbours has a dog named Holly who used to be scared of my skateboard and used to constantly bark but through exposure and petting, Holly is always so full of energy whenever she spots me and likes to lick my hands and my skateboard (yikes 😬). Another lovely group of people.

When the lockdown ends, I'm gonna try out the metal and punk club and bar scenes. I don't expect many black guys to be there so I reckon I would stand out but that's cool. I'd be there for the music.

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[–]sleuthoftrades1Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

It is easier for Western men though. Yes, the expectations non-Western women have is hard for people in non-Western countries to meet. But Western men have it easy to meet non-Western women's expectations. Some of this is due to Western privilege, but another reason is that after putting up with Western women's expectations for a long time, it feels like playing on easy mode which snowballs into more confidence and competence. Non-Western women also give a "boost" to Western men simply due to them being Western. We can't talk about race here, but for women that is often a part of hypergamy as well.

A Westerner who tries to meet non-Western women's expectation will have an easier time than a non-Western man trying to meet Western women's expectations for sure. But Western men have an easier time with non-Western women than Western women for similar reasons. That is why men who can't/won't deal with most Western women look east. Like no non-Western man goes "I've had it with non-Western women, I'm going with these Western broads, so much easier" even if they live in the West.

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just say you didn’t understand, boo.

A 8/10 guy is going to have it harder to get laid than a 4/10 girl, because women have it so easy getting sex. That says nothing about whether there are many more 3/10 guys than women at all.

i’m not sure what this was supposed to mean. see, it’s okay to be honest when you’re a little confused.

that you can even compare the ability to get laid with ease between an 8/10 guy and a 4/10 girl is just supports the idea that women have more value in the smp lmao. that’s men’s fault for being so thirsty for sex, not women’s.

men in this sub obsess about mythical chads and n count all damn damn, but you think it’s just women who believe in stupid things? you’re still trying to compete for the who’s better award, while acting like you’re above it.

[–]sleuthoftrades11 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If I said I didn’t understand, I’d be lying. I understand, I just recognize it’s stupid.

I never said women didn’t have higher smp? That’s why I said women have it easier getting laid. I said that says nothing about whether the world is full of 3/10 men like you claimed. Because even if the world were full of 8/10 men, they’d still have a hard time getting laid. How is that not clear?

I think there are degrees. And women turned it up a notch for sure. Especially when it comes to this particular point. What I am pointing out is even in their viewpoint it doesn’t make sense to think men are so much worse and dominating at the same time. Not sure why that’s hard for you to understand. Even if I did believe women are so much worse, at least that would be consistent with their position in society/history. Should be easy to understand, sorry you have such a hard time with it.

I just spent so many words explaining a pretty easy concept to you and doubt you’ll still get it. I’m out. Good luck with your life.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If I said I didn’t understand, I’d be lying. I understand, I just recognize it’s stupid.

so is competing in the “my gender is more righteous” olympics.

I never said women didn’t have higher smp? That’s why I said women have it easier getting laid. I said that says nothing about whether the world is full of 3/10 men like you claimed. Because even if the world were full of 8/10 men, they’d still have a hard time getting laid. How is that not clear?

you really didn’t have to explain further than this.

the world is full of men, full of chads and shreks and everything in between. duh.

I think there are degrees. And women turned it up a notch for sure. Especially when it comes to this particular point. What I am pointing out is even in their viewpoint it doesn’t make sense to think men are so much worse and dominating at the same time. Not sure why that’s hard for you to understand. Even if I did believe women are so much worse, at least that would be consistent with their position in society/history. Should be easy to understand, sorry you have such a hard time with it.

i know what you’re pointing out, i just don’t see what any of that ever had to do with my initial comment. you kept bringing up what women say where a woman didn’t say that. you’re arguing against an argument i never made.

[–]HOLYREGIME 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

ugh, please. not the chad nonsense again.

you’re right that it’s not necessary, but women will probably never stop being hypergamous because that’s just one of those things that i think most people will have a hard time overcoming; just like people’s wishes and urges to procreate.

i couldn’t tell you whether it’s a result of biology or socialization, but ultimately it makes sense that women would prioritize finding a man who earns more than she does if she wants children. she is going to have to make career sacrifices for the child, so it’s not beneficial to her and the child to choose a mate who can’t or will struggle to support her and an infant or small child.

if you were a woman looking to have a family and you cared about the practical logistics of it, you’d probably prioritize finances too.

[–]HOLYREGIME 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Women don’t really have to make career sacrifices anymore. Again one of the additions to women gaining value on the professional world. Women are actually leaving the workforce LESS after giving birth because of increase family leave by companies and other PTO options.

Women may choose to leave the workforce to raise children BECAUSE the guy already makes more. If the woman makes more then both continue to work and they opt for childcare services or the guy stays at home.

Logistically as you say whoever earns more continues to work and whoever makes less takes care of the kid. Women choose partners who make more and by default sacrifices their careers.

Women also don’t want to make more because if they continue working and the guy doesn’t she’s filing for divorce no matter what. She failed at hypergamy.

Everything comes down to women and their lust for chads penis. Don’t you forget that.

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

taking time off is the sacrifice she makes to have a family. that’s time she could spend furthering her career.

Women may choose to leave the workforce to raise children BECAUSE the guy already makes more. If the woman makes more then both continue to work and they opt for childcare services or the guy stays at home.

Logistically as you say whoever earns more continues to work and whoever makes less takes care of the kid. Women choose partners who make more and by default sacrifices their careers.

duh.

if you listen to single women who want children, many of them wish to stay home with their children while they’re infants. how are these women supposed to do that if the men they choose as husbands aren’t out-earning them?

women have to sacrifice in their careers regardless as a result of pregnancy, childbirth, and breastfeeding. all of that costs time you can’t ever get back, regardless of how much her partner earns.

Women also don’t want to make more because if they continue working and the guy doesn’t she’s filing for divorce no matter what. She failed at hypergamy.

well what would you know? gender roles never really died, after all.

Everything comes down to women and their lust for chads penis. Don’t you forget that.

riiiiiight. all is at peace in chadlandia now that you’ve reminded each and every one of us peasants that the world revolves around the mystical, divine chad and his penis made of the purest gold.

/s

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[–]SerpentCypher 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I love how wwhenever a woman who identifies as a feminist, but also doesn't hate men becomes decently popular (Like Christina Hoff Summers, Liana Kerzner, or Erin Pizzey) other feminists immediately take a disliking to them and cast them out, claiming they "aren't a true feminist."

They generally believe all the same things other feminists do, except they spend more time trying to uplift women rather than tearing down men. And other feminists despise them for it. It's telling that these women have mostly male audiences, while women go for the more "men are the problem" type of feminist.

It's actually quite amusing, feminists will deny that hating men has anything to do with feminism til the end of time, but the vitriol they show towards women/feminists who don't is extremely telling.

They call them pick me's, attention whores, and all kinds of things to try to belittle their overall message to make it seem like she's either not being hateful towards men for personal gain, or that she's some kind of doormat with no self esteem. Because no woman could genuinely care about male issues too right?

The best (and most illuminating) part though is how they say these women aren't true feminists, because they care and talk about male majority/only issues as well as talking about female issues. Apparently if you're also an MRA you can't simultaneously be a feminist (which is basically just being an egalitarian).

Honestly i think this is because feminists do truly see every issue as a zero sum game, that talking about men's issues hurts, or takes away from women's problems in some way.

This is a good starting point for a discussion whenever the next feminism megathread pops up. I have more thoughts on this but I'll save them for then.

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[–]reluctantly_red 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]LowCredditshortcels are volcels 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Zippo-Cat -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]NarniaFox 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Zippo-Cat -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]flyingbee123 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]NarniaFox 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]LowCredditshortcels are volcels 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LowCredditshortcels are volcels 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Cybercunt2069xXxINCELFAGGOTxXx 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Zippo-Cat -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]wekacuckPreparing to die a virgin. 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Psychological_Wear_74 inches is enough 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Cybercunt2069xXxINCELFAGGOTxXx 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ANRthrowawayABFBlack pill 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]alberto-hofflover of chads 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WestsideMoonWalkerA Fucking Bamboo Eater 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwthisaway11800misandry is my kink 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]WestsideMoonWalkerA Fucking Bamboo Eater 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwthisaway11800misandry is my kink 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]WestsideMoonWalkerA Fucking Bamboo Eater 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwthisaway11800misandry is my kink 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]WestsideMoonWalkerA Fucking Bamboo Eater 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]alberto-hofflover of chads 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]death_by_1000_catsrisky vagina lifestyle 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Spacechichen_1990miss hypergamy 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Sad_Top1743Misogyny is not a joke Jim -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Sad_Top1743Misogyny is not a joke Jim -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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riiiiight.

so you’re more logical until is comes to sex, and then you’re brainless zombies with no agency. got it.

It's not like we don't have self-control, we just don't need to. Pussy is pussy, even if owner isn't attractive. Sex is always prize for men and it has lower risk for us, so why would we decline it when it has low risk - high reward?

I think you are projecting

you don’t. you don’t speak for all men.

Oh honey, I know men, I'm around them. Even some of the religious dudes are as bad or worse than me lol.

sure, you’ll also find outliers in those stats.

you know, because things don’t exist in absolutes.

If a man has everything I've mentioned he will 99.99% be promiscuous.

And rest of them probably have low libido or some weird shit like that...

and i’m glad we’ve come to an agreement, that men do have a choice not to be sluts.

Well, yes, but actually no

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[–]death_by_1000_catsrisky vagina lifestyle 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LeadInfusedRedPill🐕 Woof 🐕 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]LeadInfusedRedPill🐕 Woof 🐕 -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Armchair psychologists of PPD:

Just recently helped an old friend from high school out of an emotionally abusive relationship with someone she was with since middle school (so approaching 10 years). She's 22 like me.

She has started behaving...strangely. She's seeing someone else now, and they seem happy together, so I don't think adjusting to single life is the issue. She let me know out of the blue that one of our old classmates (who neither of us have talked to in years) is getting married. She was never interested in this kind of thing before, and it's definitely not the sort of thing she'd just randomly reach out about.

And whenever I try to just let our messages drop off naturally...she brings up some other random topic just to keep it going. Recently it was a detail about a random video game we haven't played since early high school. In the past, when the conversation ran its course we just reconnected some other time. Now it's like she can't stand to not have some kind of conversation going, no matter how trivial it is.

She's not the type to talk about her feelings, and I'm starting to wonder if something's wrong. I have zero experience being in a relationship that long (or that early, I didn't have my first boyfriend until I was 16). So I can't really relate to what she's going through.

[–]death_by_1000_cats6 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

When you've been with someone that long, and especially when you spent such formative years together, you really want to forge an identity outside of them. This is why people will often radically change their look or pick up some new time-consuming hobby after a breakup or divorce. It's part of moving on from the person and being someone else without them. A big part of that for a lot of people is finding a new social circle. If all your friends know your ex, you might have to distance yourself from them in order to distance yourself from the ex.

I wonder if she did this and now finds herself without many friends or social outlets, and that's why she's clinging to you. From your description it really just seems like she's lonely and maybe wants to keep the conversation going because it makes her feel secure in your friendship. And maybe she's bringing up old friends from high school or whatever just because it's one of the few things she knows how to connect with you about.

Have you guys actually hung out together or are you mostly just texting? Not that you're obligated to but if you actually want to be friends with her I think it would be good for her to spend some time with a female friend irl. It sounds like she is just lonely and maybe her social muscles have atrophied a bit after spending so long isolated in an abusive relationship.

[–]LittyKitsune2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]death_by_1000_cats3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Ah, that makes sense. You're the "safe friend" that she confides in. Probably helps that you're somewhat removed from the situation.

I went through something very similar with my lifelong best friend a few years ago. We were a little older than you guys, but she had been with her husband since she was 14, married at 20 and was divorcing at 28. She lived across the country at the time and we were still in touch but had kind of stopped talking as often as we used to. When she separated from her husband she started reaching out a lot more, sometimes to talk about the divorce but sometimes just to chat. I think she just felt safer and more comfortable talking to me because we had known each other so long, she knew I wouldn't judge her etc., and like I said I was kind of removed from the situation geographically which weirdly seems to make people more open to talking about it with you.

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Yeah all that and possibly the lack of consent

Consent? I didn't know that seeking people out - especially people that one is already familiar with - required consent. That would only be if they already didn't want people to seek them out, so it sounds related to the expectation and predictability of having someone come over.

I just don't think it should be the default assumption that someone can just show up unannounced just because we are friends and they know where I live.

Even if just to visit? I do this with all of my family and friends all the time and they know that I just show up when I do and that I'm only checking up on them for the time being. I'm not saying it would be an everyday "let's hang out like we did yesterday and the day before and the week before that" thing.

Maybe in-person visits is just part of my love language or something. Calling, texting or messaging has always seemed impersonal to me, and it seems like if that's all someone does and doesn't want to see you, then they don't really care about you all that much.

[–]death_by_1000_cats1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean, just because a person doesn't want you to show up unannounced at random times doesn't mean they don't want to see you in person ever.

I love spending time with my friends and family, but I need time to myself too, and I have obligations at home I need to take care of. A friend showing up to hang out on the day I planned to do laundry and meal prep could throw a wrench in my entire week. Or I may have set that time aside to relax, read, exercise, work out or otherwise take time for myself. Or I may be going through something personal that I need to deal with. Or I may be spending an intimate evening with my husband. Or I may have diarrhea. Like, you literally have no idea what's going on in someone's life and what you're interrupting by showing up to their house unannounced.

I would much rather a friend call or text and figure out a time that works for both of us.

Family is a little different, I kind of have an open door policy with them, but I also don't feel obligated to entertain them like I would friends. I don't mind letting my dad watch TV on the couch for a couple of hours while I go to my room and read or take a nap, but it would seem rude to do that to a friend, for example.

You're acting like this is a modern thing created by texting or whatever but even in olden times people would send a telegram letting someone know they were coming to visit. I'm not sure there was ever a time when it wasn't considered rude to just show up at someone's house without any prior plan or acknowledgement, at least since forms of long distance communication were invented.

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On the pop heads sub there was an interesting thread about how the users are mad because the fansubs of female pop stars like Ariana grande for example are dominated by dudes who just want to fuck her. Like there’s no real actual discussion of the music. It’s just weirdos jerking off to some picture of her hair lol.

“They’re dehumanizing them” lol

There are people who are gonna just want to fuck you and don’t give a shit about your artistry. This shit goes both ways. I came of age in the late 90’s and early 00’s. I have no doubt in my mind that a significant portion of the girls I knew who claimed to be “fans” of groups like *NSYNC and Backstreet Boys didn’t give two shits about their music, they just thought they were cute lol. There’s a reason why labels pick certain boys to be in the bands and be stars. “Who can I see teenage girls putting on their walls?”

It’s funny my older sister was a big Backstreet boys fan back then and she said she went back to listen to their CDs like 2 years ago. She said omg these guys suck, I just thought they were hot when I was 15 🤣

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Do you think is that what the architecture said? When he explains that he solve the problem for the 1% who had a problem with the program.

He said that the problem is choice. Everyone ultimately chooses what they do in life, and being ignorant or letting things just happen is also a choice. The previous matrixes that were supposed to be perfect didn't work because nothing can be perfect without balance, and giving people a choice (or "free will" as we refer to it) sort of balanced the equation.

My interpretation is that are layers as you said but he did break from one layer. The second one is made to make him believe he knows the truth. lol

Well no, that was the Oracle's doing. She was also part of the balance of the larger system, so while The Architect was basically playing the role of "God," she was playing the role of Satan according to the Biblical interpretation of the balance of good and evil, and her goal was to unbalance the turn of events so that Neo chose a different path from the previous Ones. If he never met Trinity and experienced personal love, he would have chosen to save the rest of humanity by returning to The Source and resetting The Matrix. Instead he returned to The Matrix to save Trinity from dying.

So the Oracle only guided him toward what was necessary for him to do what she wanted/needed him to do, or else the story/matrix would have continued repeating itself for eternity.

The Matrix was more of an allegorical story about people rejecting modern civilization and the mental falsehoods it creates that lead people to believe things that aren't true, both about the world and about themselves.

[–]_lemazaki1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

He said that the problem is choice. Everyone ultimately chooses what they do in life, and being ignorant or letting things just happen is also a choice. The previous matrixes that were supposed to be perfect didn't work because nothing can be perfect without balance, and giving people a choice (or "free will" as we refer to it) sort of balanced the equation.

That is why he made zion and the war right? In doing so he put an end to the problem of choice. And you can see that they are still in the Matrix, because Neo still has powers. Am I wrong?

The Matrix was more of an allegorical story about people rejecting modern civilization and the mental falsehoods it creates that lead people to believe things that aren't true, both about the world and about themselves.

I see... I had the same conclusion. But what I mentioned above confused me.

[–]TheBookOfSeil2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That is why he made zion and the war right?

No, he didn't make Zion. Zion existed outside of The Matrix and was just where people went when they were freed. Zion is "the promised land" and translates to "highest point," so it was just a name in the movie but has significant meaning in the metaphorical sense. The war was between the Architect and the Oracle, both created by the machines to give balance to the system in order to make it function properly. It was just that most of the time, the previous Ones who never learned what real love was always made the same choice as the others did, so Neo was unique in that he did something that no other One did before him, and sacrificed himself to bring peace to the war between humans and machines.

In doing so he put an end to the problem of choice. And you can see that they are still in the Matrix, because Neo still has powers. Am I wrong?

Well, as I said before, there are matrixes within matrixes, and some parts of each matrix will be the same, so yes, they were still inside of a matrix but not the one created by the machines to enslave humanity inside of. I'm not sure about Neo's connection to the machines and what it's supposed to mean, though. That part is something that I couldn't find an answer for yet. It might not have a spiritual meaning.

I see... I had the same conclusion. But what I mentioned above confused me.

Gotcha. There are multiple layers, possibly infinite layers, and each is like a kind of matrix on its own. In the movie, they were talking about the mental and physical matrix, and in a sense, showed how they relate to the other, higher physical and non-physical matrixes, but only as far as that.

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We need to talk more about japanese boxing.

First and foremost, i wasnt ready for the crowd ambiance, like i know japanese people can get crazy (baseball match sounds louder than the Nou Camp lol), but i wasnt expecting the ambiance in a japanese boxing match.

And for all my short dudes who want some short kings to look up to this man, naoya inoue is the pound for pound best boxer in the world imo, top 2 according to the ring magazine, and they dont rank asian fighters in the lower weight class very high often.

It is a big issue i have against boxing tbh, the lower weight class in MMA are like legit, you have a crap tone of legends between a lot of mma leagues, and i know that fucking dana tried to cancel the flyweight division in the ufc, but he is an idiot and he stopped talking about it, and today you have quite a few contenders even in the UFC.

Btw lower weight class have a tone of good thing to offer, cus these dudes dont gas tank so fast, and the fight doesnt turn into a slug fest of tired boxers at the end, they are better brawler if anything because they can maintain their stamina longer.

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Meh, plenty of HVM use the services of sex workers - strippers, cam girls, porn stars, etc. It used to be much more acceptable for men to visit pros (that’s where the bachelor party came from). I mean, hell, the pros in Amsterdam aren’t kept in business solely because of LVM

Intellectually, I understand that all sorts of men see sex workers, including prostitutes. I totally understand that, and am fairly levelheaded about wanting the industry decriminalized and regulated/taxed for that reason

But I’m also an irrational woman who has an “ew, yucky” knee jerk reaction to Johns, and I can’t help it - I assume that you’re right, that men are low value and can’t close on their own without paying

I know those two thoughts cancel each other out, but it is what it is. That’s why men just shouldn’t disclose that information

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Would you be bothered by that?

Yes, and I would not date him regardless of his motivation. If he visited an escort, it would mean he did not share my sexual morals. I don’t want to date a guy who has sex with women he wouldn’t date.

Is there any difference between an ugly guy meeting an escort and a ugly woman having a one night stand to seek sexual release?

Yes, because the escort is being paid money. Another difference is that the escort might be a trafficking victim or have no choice in being an escort. Those don’t generally apply to one night stands.

I wouldn’t want to date a man who had one night stands either, but I do see these two things as different. If he’d found an escort who was freely escorting because she loved the job, I wouldn’t view it as negatively... but I’d still view the guy as incompatible.

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She wasn't "using the mantle of feminism" to do shit, it's a single throwaway tweet. Get a grip. Is she using feminism to discuss covid and anti maskers? Or how free speech is bad and right wing? How about when she's talking about her cats? Feminist speaks =/= feminism.

Also, she literally never talks about men's rights, unless she's using it to compare gow women have it so much worse. This tweet wasn't even about men's rights, it was about not making fun of people because of their sex life.

I get you clearly don't like her, I don't particularly like her either, she always manages to twist things that primarily affect men into "akshually here's why it harms women more" which is reeeaaally annoying. But this is just some blatant FSM BS where you don't like that she identifies as a feminist without constantly shitting on unattractive men. Hence the pickmiesha comment.

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no, i mean they can also find those individual traits attractive too.

it’s not impossible for a woman to find some extra fat on a man to be attractive, the same way there are “chubby chasers.” i have a friend who told me she likes both small and big penises for different reasons. i personally prefer a short man, myself; i like when a man has a petite body, like me.

my point is: that doesn’t mean i can’t also find a taller man attractive too, just like my friend liking a big dick doesn’t mean she can’t like a small one too. women can be attracted to different (or even opposite) traits simultaneously, not every woman has a strictly specific type.

and you may say those women are exceptions. even if most of the women who date those guys put less emphasis on looks, by discounting them and their experiences, you’re only hurting your own chances at finding women like that irl to date; because you’re assuming they don’t exist or that because they find other men attractive (men who you perceive to be more attractive than you), that means they couldn’t possibly find you attractive too. they can and do, otherwise men who aren’t conventionally attractive in every way would never have relationships or procreate. except they do.

[–]Sad_Top1743Misogyny is not a joke Jim 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't deny that variability of what women find attractive exists.

Some like skinny dark hair chad some tyrone some blonde chad etc. With other traits its the same, some might value you humor more than another woman.

women can be attracted to different (or even opposite) traits simultaneously, not every woman has a strictly specific type.

Agree with the first but disagree with the second part. They may have variability but ime women do have specific types they are attracted to. She maybe attracted to Tyrone, Chad and not Chris even though they are all handsome. The first two are athletes and look different while Chris is a musician.

i have a friend who told me she likes both small and big penises for different reasons. i personally prefer a short man, myself; i like when a man has a petite body, like me.

I'm sure she has a preference for one as well. I don't doubt that there are women who don't want big penises but realistically the vast majority prefer average or larger. It's disingenuous to say otherwise. The very small number of women who prefer small ones is negligible since they are vastly surpassed by the number of men who actually have small ones. Big dudes have more demand for their size than small guys. The same is true for height. Far more short men struggle with dating than others, many women acknowledge this and feel bad for them. You really don't think short men are at a disadvantage? Women who are ok dating a variety of heights are outnumbered by women who want to date taller men and by men who are actually short.

otherwise men who aren’t conventionally attractive in every way would never have relationships or procreate. except they do.

Yea we do despite our hindrances. You're painting women in a far more positive light than reality, women can be very swallow especially when it comes to who they're intimate with.

Look, I feel like your intentions are well but what you're saying is also dangerous. The "Be yourself and you'll find someone" is just terrible advice. I wish I knew how much status and looks mattered so I would have focused on that during early adulthood. Men like me have learned from our experiences and are passing it down to others. This actually benefits women too since there are more attractive men to choose from. A win-win.

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Agree with the first but disagree with the second part. They may have variability but ime women do have specific types they are attracted to. She maybe attracted to Tyrone, Chad and not Chris even though they are all handsome. The first two are athletes and look different while Chris is a musician.

when i say not every woman a strictly specific type, i mean not every woman has a strict idea of what a man must look like to be attractive. sometimes the type has more to do with personality than looks.

and my main point is even if dark haired skinny chad is her type, that doesn’t mean that’s the only kind of man she finds attractive.

I'm sure she has a preference for one as well. I don't doubt that there are women who don't want big penises but realistically the vast majority prefer average or larger. It's disingenuous to say otherwise. The very small number of women who prefer small ones is negligible since they are vastly surpassed by the number of men who actually have small ones. Big dudes have more demand for their size than small guys.

the point wasn’t how often they’re preferred, the point is that dismissing those women isn’t helpful for men who don’t fit the mold for “chad.” focusing on the women that only want “chad” is not helpful to them.

The same is true for height. Far more short men struggle with dating than others, many women acknowledge this and feel bad for them. You really don't think short men are at a disadvantage? Women who are ok dating a variety of heights are outnumbered by women who want to date taller men and by men who are actually short.

i’m not saying they don’t have a disadvantage, i’m saying they don’t always struggle as much as people make it seem.

these individual traits alone don’t automatically make a person unattractive. a man can be short, and still be conventionally attractive otherwise. he can have a small penis, and still be conventionally attractive otherwise.

and there’s really no way for us to know whether or not women who prefer taller men outnumber women who aren’t strict about height. you can pull up a study that shows taller men do better with women than shorter men, but that doesn’t tell you the quantity of women who prefer taller men and the quantity of those who don’t have a height preference.

so really, this is just speculation. i know enough exceptions (which makes me question if they’re even really exceptions) to know a man’s height is not the kryptonite this sub wants people to believe.

otherwise men who aren’t conventionally attractive in every way would never have relationships or procreate. except they do.

Yea we do despite our hindrances. You're painting women in a far more positive light than reality, women can be very swallow especially when it comes to who they're intimate with.

i’ve never said women weren’t shallow.

i’m saying not all women are shallow, and discounting the ones who aren’t does nobody any favors.

Look, I feel like your intentions are well but what you're saying is also dangerous. The "Be yourself and you'll find someone" is just terrible advice.

that’s not advice i’m giving.

I wish I knew how much status and looks mattered so I would have focused on that during early adulthood. Men like me have learned from our experiences and are passing it down to others. This actually benefits women too since there are more attractive men to choose from. A win-win.

sure. i don’t think telling those men they have no chance helps anyone either though. help them, yes. don’t discourage them entirely.

[–]Sad_Top1743Misogyny is not a joke Jim 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

and my main point is even if dark haired skinny chad is her type, that doesn’t mean that’s the only kind of man she finds attractive.

Yea, if her type is big and tall she might find different kinds of big/tall men attractive. Personality does play a role but it comes after not before. People can grow to like someone but if they were initially not attracted it limits the potential.

the point wasn’t how often they’re preferred, the point is that dismissing those women isn’t helpful for men who don’t fit the mold for “chad.” focusing on the women that only want “chad” is not helpful to them.

Why isn't it? If 10% of people like vanilla ice cream but 90% prefer chocolate discussions based on ice cream should focus primarily on the 90%. Its helpful to discuss it because men can improve to be what women desire.

i’m not saying they don’t have a disadvantage, i’m saying they don’t always struggle as much as people make it seem.

So you just think the its not as detrimental to their dating lives. You recognize it has a negative affect but you question its magnitude. That's fair, they could be exaggerating and you could be undermining a bit.

these individual traits alone don’t automatically make a person unattractive. a man can be short, and still be conventionally attractive otherwise. he can have a small penis, and still be conventionally attractive otherwise.

Yea agree but he has a far smaller pool of options because of those features. He is attractive to far less women which is detrimental to his success.

and there’s really no way for us to know whether or not women who prefer taller men outnumber women who aren’t strict about height.

Here are two from a quick google: https://www.sharecare.com/health/sex-and-relationships/article/study-find-women-prefer-taller-men

https://www.nber.org/papers/w20402

i’m saying not all women are shallow, and discounting the ones who aren’t does nobody any favors.

Most people are swallow and men who are struggling with dating could improve their chances by focusing on what matters.

sure. i don’t think telling those men they have no chance helps anyone either though. help them, yes. don’t discourage them entirely.

I don't think I ever said to discourage them in fact I feel I'm being far more helpful than "just be yourself". Confronting harsh truths and improving areas which are highly valued by women are part of the redpill tenants.

[–]rft24aspiring tradwife 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yea, if her type is big and tall she might find different kinds of big/tall men attractive. Personality does play a role but it comes after not before. People can grow to like someone but if they were initially not attracted it limits the potential.

not necessarily. some people really do care more for personality than looks. it’s just that most people prioritize looks, so it makes sense that they’d also attract people who prioritize looks.

Why isn't it? If 10% of people like vanilla ice cream but 90% prefer chocolate discussions based on ice cream should focus primarily on the 90%. Its helpful to discuss it because men can improve to be what women desire.

if you don’t have chocolate ice cream to offer, what good does it do for you to focus on the people who only want chocolate ice cream?

the consumers you should focus on is going to be the 10% of people who want vanilla and the people who overlap and want both.

men can improve, sure; but there is a ceiling. and as men point out, many of these things women desire aren’t always things men can change about themselves. men can’t change their height or their dick size. they can try to change their personalities, but they’ll have to pretend to be someone they’re not.

wouldn’t the easier solution be to focus on the women who don’t require so much maintenance?

So you just think the its not as detrimental to their dating lives. You recognize it has a negative affect but you question its magnitude. That's fair, they could be exaggerating and you could be undermining a bit.

yes. i see people who have these traits and don’t struggle nearly as much as people here make it seem, so i have a hard time believing this is such an impossible idea.

Yea agree but he has a far smaller pool of options because of those features. He is attractive to far less women which is detrimental to his success.

and yet, there are men who are short and do well with women. i personally know at least a handful of men who fit the description of short, and otherwise conventionally attractive; they’ve literally never struggled with dating, and women are always after them.

Here are two from a quick google: https://www.sharecare.com/health/sex-and-relationships/article/study-find-women-prefer-taller-men

https://www.nber.org/papers/w20402

neither stat shows how many women would be open to dating a man who’s not tall though, i don’t even think it’s possible to measure that. all it says is women tend to prefer taller men, doesn’t say anything about the quantity of the women.

for all we know, it’s a small percentage of the population. even if it’s less than 20%, there’s literally billions of women in the world. that “small percentage” still accounts for a whole lot of women, it’s just small in comparison to the rest.

these studies also don’t tell you what is defined as “taller.” for all we know, “taller” just means “taller than her” and not necessarily “6’ or above.” even if it means “taller than average,” average is 5’8. men are taller than women, on average. so the men who are shorter can still find women shorter than them, women who’d consider them “taller.”

Most people are swallow and men who are struggling with dating could improve their chances by focusing on what matters.

what matters is subjective.

I don't think I ever said to discourage them in fact I feel I'm being far more helpful than "just be yourself". Confronting harsh truths and improving areas which are highly valued by women are part of the redpill tenants.

“just be yourself” is not good advice on its own. of course people should always strive to improve themselves, but there’s only so much improvement one can do. trp is great for average guys who want casual situations and have the potential to become above average or better, but the guys below? “just lift bro, hold frame bro” isn’t good advice for them either.

there’s a market out there for them, whether it’s big or small, and i personally think it’s better to send them in that direction than to convince them to compete for women who wouldn’t want them anyway.

[–]Sad_Top17431 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

the consumers you should focus on is going to be the 10% of people who want vanilla and the people who overlap and want both.

Again there is not enough of those, they are a minority remember. It's even a smaller minority when you consider many of them only like those traits because they have detrimental characteristics when lower their options as well. When people have options they choose what they want, when they are devoid of options they settle for subpar partners.

If a woman is getting commitment from tall attractive partners but chooses to be with an short guy, that means she has a true preference for him. If she can't get commitment from those tall men her choosing a short man could be out of necessity rather than desire. Women face this issue in dating as well.

men can improve, sure; but there is a ceiling. and as men point out, many of these things women desire aren’t always things men can change about themselves. men can’t change their height or their dick size. they can try to change their personalities, but they’ll have to pretend to be someone they’re not.

Yea everyone has a ceiling, I know I will never be a 9 or 10 but it doesn't bother me. Men should just increase as close as they can to their genetic potential.

wouldn’t the easier solution be to focus on the women who don’t require so much maintenance?

eh men should do it for themselves too not just for women. Some men do think its not worth it and go MGTOW but I think the self development is great even outside of the sexual benefits.

“just be yourself” is not good advice on its own. of course people should always strive to improve themselves, but there’s only so much improvement one can do. trp is great for average guys who want casual situations and have the potential to become above average or better, but the guys below? “just lift bro, hold frame bro” isn’t good advice for them either.

Exactly and the vast majority of people are just that, average. Most men are average and following red-pill will give them exponentially more benefits than staying the same. The guys below are a minority just like the Chads, their issues differ.

there’s a market out there for them, whether it’s big or small, and i personally think it’s better to send them in that direction than to convince them to compete for women who wouldn’t want them anyway.

Red-pill is primarily speaking about average guys, the really unfortunate ones I wish the best of luck to though.

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That is not why she did that at all

Really? What did she do in her "no pay May" project? Because, I read her blog before she took it down (to be put into book form and sold). Her "experiment" was to see if she could get one free meal each day by going on "dates" (not really dates) and "letting" the men she met with pay for their activities.

You're saying mainstream culture at large, says nothing of people who will take advantage of you?

No, we were looking for examples of red pill "reality" that are both true and not part of mainstream culture. A woman explicitly acknowledging that she goes on "dates" to get free stuff from men--rather than dating at face value--is not mainstream. It's a common thing, that's what makes it true. Highlighting female hypergamy makes it red pill. The part about it not being "explicitly acknowledged" makes it not part of mainstream culture.

You asked for an example and I gave you one.

[–]Slyfer_Seven1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah, really. Her experiment was to go a on a date every day and see what happened. It was to gather data to better understand the new app based dating world she found herself in. How you came up with anything other than that is some serious skimming mixed with preconceived bias...

But again, going with the assumption you're actually right, unless you're not from the U.S., I don't see how you've never came across sayings like "looking for a free meal" or "looking for a meal ticket" which have been around since at least the 19th century. One of the main uses of those types of sayings is to describe people using others for their monetary gain, and is often attributed to women...

So, how is this red pill truth not already found in the mainstream culture, when there are literally sayings coined to describe it?

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah, really. Her experiment was to go a on a date every day and see what happened. It was to gather data to better understand the new app based dating world she found herself in. How you came up with anything other than that is some serious skimming mixed with preconceived bias...

Are you serious? The point was to try to get at least one free meal each day, not just to "see what happened." It's in the title No Pay May.

So, how is this red pill truth not already found in the mainstream culture, when there are literally sayings coined to describe it?

The part where they explicitly acknowledge what they're doing is not mainstream. The mainstream thing to do is to keep up the pretense that all women only go on dates at face value--that they go on a date because they want to spend time with that man.

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My armchair understanding is that the main difference is between secure vs insecure attachment is the big one, and that insecure attachment can manifest in different ways. It mostly has to do with attentiveness of the parent (avoidant comes from general if sometimes benign neglect and anxious comes for inconsistent attention, typically). But men with insecure attachments are more likely to be avoidant and women with insecure attachments are more likely to be anxious.

I would say that avoidant attachment is probably "better" for men to have because it is more aligned with typical masculinity (eg, commitment-phobic, not emotional, don't want to let anyone in, etc). Whereas anxious attachment in men is more men who jump into relationships very quickly, and then are very needy and clinging, constantly jealous, freaking out that you're not texting enough etc.

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It's absolutely possible to be a mix. Very few people are 100% one or the other. People can also have a mostly secure attachment styles with sprinkles of avoidant / anxious attachments thrown in there.

Caregiver attunement (eg being able to tell that something is wrong with the baby, and being present) and responsiveness (doing something about it) are the biggest indicators of attachment but not the only indicators. Like, you can have a very responsive caregiver but if they have an avoidant or anxious attachment the child may pick up an insecure attachment.

Using myself as an example, my mother was mostly securely attached and my father is mostly insecure - anxious. They were both great attentive parents but I absolutely picked up some anxious attachment characteristics (clingy ness, insecurity). Over the years tho I've manager to work on that to the point where I'm now mostly securely attached.

For the record, I am basing this on two sources: 1) the psychology in Seattle Patreon series on attachment and 2) the book "Strange Situation: A Mother's Journey Into the Science of Attachment". They are both good but if you're interested I would definitely recommend the former, tho you do have to pay $5 but then you can download all of the episodes and cancel

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It's interesting how women and men differ between perceptions of intent vs impact.

Perception of intent:

get thousands of "sly" hints from your relatives about kids,

Perception of impact:

they also manage to invalidate your experience and achievements in the way.

I feel like guys would look at it the opposite way.

By that I mean, I would not have the same perception of intent - especially if said to me by a male. At most, I'd suspect he was simply trying to make conversation or have genuine interest in what my interests were. No further meaning behind it.

Same goes for impact. I would not read it as an invalidation of my achievements. Like, shit, if I got a new job and the next day, my SIL announced I was getting a new niece/nephew - I wouldn't look at it as "oh woe is me, someone took the spotlight away from me." I'd look at it as "wow, two great things just happened right after the other."

Differences between men and women, I suppose.

Do you think it makes a difference if its the SIL vs an actual sister announcing the baby?

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So I actually did a post on this: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ljzd94/mythbusting_single_mothers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

From my post:

< There’s a factoid floating around PPD that the majority of births to millennial mothers are to single mothers. Yes, apparently just like avocado toast, millennial women love having babies on their own. But this is, of course, misleading. Data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth followed a cohort of young people from 1997. By 2011, 57% of the births that occurred within this cohort were outside of marriage. Even discounting the idea these individuals are more likely to be in a non-married cohabitating union, let’s not lose sight of the fact that this cohort was aged 26-31 at the time of publication*.* So yeah, no shit you have a higher prevalence of single mother births when you are dealing with younger parents. For the women in the cohort who had given birth, 81% of them were non-college graduates, and of those who were college educated, 71% were married. In 2016, the average maternal age of a college educated woman was 30.3 at first birth. In 2017, Women in their 30s had a higher birth rate than women in their 20s. So if we were looking at a cohort that is 36-41, I would imagine we would see a very different percentage of single mothers vs married mothers compared to a cohort that is 26-31, especially among women who are college educated.

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I'd say it's a bit different although it's all connected. The initial interest women have is simply because of man's aggression. He doesn't have to show any kind of niceness to draw the women in (same reason women fall in love with criminals who went to prison). The "niceness" is the 2nd step in the attraction. It's true that such men can have a roid rage and the next second they will say the girl that he loves her. Women love this type of mood swings. They can be battered, hit, abused, but all of it doesn't matter as long as he throws the "I'm nice" bone every while. Women stay in abusive relationships for a reason. They rather be in this type of relationship over the one where they know what to expect from the man (being constantly nice to her is incredibly boring). However, he doesn't actually have to be nice at all. Not being a turbo asshole can be viewed by a woman as being nice. On top of that you have the "taming the beast" fantasy of changing the man so that he is actually nice to her exclusively. Not showing any kind of being nice isn't good for maintaining this attraction but it doesn't change the fact of initial attraction to aggression.

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I think men might just be more tuned into it because men think like men and can more easily read hidden intentions or such in other men. Its also easier in a relationship because you are probably not witnessing the others interactions independent of you being there - it can really be the case a person really doesn't act like a arse to anyone when they're still in the honeymoon because of best behavior. I don't believe this is always malicious either, I believe some men really want to better themselves and try but it's just as easy to loose it when things get to the complacency stage and it sort of snowballs from there.

Speaking of snowballing there's also situations, especially in the area of domestic abuse which is the result of mental issues becoming worse over time - they really were a different person when they met. The more obvious examples of this are people who fall into alcoholism or other drug dependencies and are heavily associated with mentally taxing jobs like veterans or policing. Shitty jobs that take a toll on someone's mental health and eventually set them on a downward spiral. I personally believe more infrastructure and opening about mental health crisis in men would also solve a lot of these issues. I think that will happen in time, I mean back when I was in school any sort of mental health issue or seeing a therapist was just too much stigma and no one sought that out. It's come a long way in a decade but I think there's still lots of men who are like Hank from Breaking Bad, people who feel they need to fix something they can't fix themselves.

Also some women, especially younger women are naïve and some women are strait up dumb. The naïve will find out the hard way but you can't fix dumb.

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Many years ago I started dating a guy I wasn't sure about. I thought it was time to have a relationship so I forced myself into dating him. I was sexually attracted to him, but I didn't enjoy time with him as much. On the other hand, he seemed like he was falling in love. At some point, I broke up with him.

Needless to say, I should have been upfront about not wanting a relationship with him before we started dating. He was incredibly hurt and I felt like a piece of shit , so I sent him an apology letter. He accused me of being like all the other women who go for bad boys and told me that I was with him just to rock my socks until a manly guy appeared in the picture. The thing is, there was no other man in the picture and no reason for him to believe the opposite. Also, my lack of romantic attraction had nothing to do with his manliness.

I understand why someone would feel used in this situation and cut all contact with me. His accusations about the rest, however, made me wonder how many men feel insecure about their manliness to the point of seeing patterns where there is none.

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I’ve been on this sub 7 years which is insane.

The same topics get rehashed as new ppl come of age and experience life.

The biggest change has been the amount of guys who truly are confused by things like “go outside” because they’re isolative personalities whose idea of socializing is deep forums alone in a comfortable bedroom.

There are younger kids now, who I guess, due to changes in technology and social progress, are able to not leave their home/gym/cubicle and thus choose to not socialize with others.

Whereas 7 years ago “the young guys” experienced middle school and HS as I did which was more “forced to interact with IRL flesh and blood in-person humans” than it is now. Those guys were more “AFCs” and the guys now have a more of “self-fulfilling Omega” worldview.

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I finally got around to watching Mad Men (I’m too cool to watch anything while it’s popular). I wanted to see what all the fuss was about Don Draper. First of all the whole show just feels like a cringy softcore boomer/trp fantasy trying too hard to be clever.

Don is handsome and successful - I’ll give you that - but dude is a literal piece of shit in every other way. Gets into relationships with women he doesn’t want to be with, is a terrible father, constantly cheating, and has immature emotional breakdowns under any kind of pressure at work.

It says so much about women that he’s regarded as the ideal that a man should emulate.

Dude has no charisma. He never laughs or smiles even when he’s joking and comes off as autistic as me. I’ve been told I remind people of him due to my general demeanor and formality and seriousness when speaking and I guess my love for nostalgic and old fashioned stuff. But I don’t think even he’d be successful with that attitude in real life.

So.. ladies of PPD.. does Don Draper do it for you?

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Yes, men want to gain attention from the opposite sex. That’s why they do all those things. Women will never admit they want attention in the first place.

and having that value does not mean you want to be free use to anyone who walks by.

Sure, but it comes with the territory. Famous people lives are changed because they are famous. They can’t do simple tasks like shop in peace. They’ll put on a hat and hoodie to hide themselves yet get attention. Women literally make themselves as revealing as morally possibly and complain about the attention they receive.

it’s like saying you’re asking to be robbed because your house is 500k

They are and have REDUCED their risk by living in separate communities or gated communities. It is possible they still get robbed? Of course but again, they reduced their risk. Women don’t reduce their risk yet, complain about the unwanted attention.

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Don’t get mad at me because you’re getting chewed out lol. And then use a half assed article to prove your point.

LOL at your grandstanding. Chewing me out? No, you're making a mockery of your own argument. You're the one who's getting mad because absolutely no one takes your misguided and outdated talking points seriously nor is it worth taking seriously.

And then use a half assed article to prove your point.

Half assed aka it trounces your points completely and now you have to swole up like you have credibility that you don't.

This article focuses on rape and like I said, rape isn’t a good measure since most rapes are committed by someone the victim actually knows.

Your relocated goal posts of general assaults, robbery and murder have zero basis in fact either. Avoiding evil places at night offers you zero protection. And you can't refute the fact that it offers zero protection from mass shooters. As for hazing again what he wore means nothing.

Keep googling, maybe you’ll come up with something.

Keep making up stuff with no citations at all, maybe you'll come up with a coherent point. As it is you're just flinging stuff all over the place trying to save face.

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One thing I’ve observed is there’s a lot of women who regularly admit to ghosting dudes after sex because it sucked. He either was too small, couldn’t hit her spot/make her cum, didn’t do oral, it lasted 2 mins etc. You have every right to do this of course. The thing is they never think it could happen to them on the flip side.

When a woman gets ghosted after sex or “pumped and dumped” the first thing she says is “oh he was just a fuckboy or a player. He just got what he wanted, he was never interested in me long term and just lied”. Maybe just maybe your vagina is trash lol, or you suck at head. “But he came though”. So? men cum every time regardless of how u look or if you’re “good” or not. That doesn’t mean shit. Every time I had bad sex I still came. That’s another thing, there’s ALOT of women who think they’re good at sex simply because guys cum every time.

If a woman sucks the soul of your penis or rides you like a stallion, he’s gonna come back. I’m not saying he’s going marry you but he will keep in contact to keep sampling that. It’s just like the flip side, dudes who have a FIRE sex game will never get ghosted, never get left on read, never ignored Etc.

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Attractiveness isn't just physical, right? If it's not just physical, then people should still be able to be attractive without being physically attractive. That being said, people don't know whether any random stranger is going to have attractive traits or not, so whether they do or not is beside the point. They only need to give the appearance that they do, which is why people fake niceness in front of others or blow smoke up their asses. It makes them seem more likeable, and thus, more attractive. They don't have to actually be any of those things though. They only need to convince people that they are. Sociopaths and psychopaths are a prime example. They basically fake their whole personality because they don't experience empathy or other emotions, and yet they're still seen as likable people because they know how to manipulate and how to fake emotions.

It's all about convincing people that you're what they like, not actually being it.

[–]nemporisso2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Not really. It's one ingredient but it's still a necessary ingredient.

Which one are you referring to? The physical attraction? I could agree there, but the other, not so much.

There is nothing inherently sinister or disingenuous about acting in a way that you think will make people like you.

So manipulation isn't disingenuous?

Everyone wants to be well liked, and everyone tries to put their best foot forward when meeting people, because why wouldn't you?

There are subconscious reasons for doing so. Most people don't do this "just because." That's the conscious brain speaking about what it doesn't know.

Likewise you are your actions, and people that act in a way that gets them a certain kind of friend or SO will ultimately be that person. People tend to be interested in maintaining connections that last longer than a week, so being what you advertise becomes part of the deal.

Everything here more or less agrees with my original comment.

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That 80% number is really misleading. I dug into this a while back and it doesn't tell the whole story. The original source was a marketing puff piece or some shit I think.

Edit: Found it! https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/SB10001424052748703521304576278964279316994

In addition to having murky origins, the number appear to be wrong. Several recent surveys suggest that men have nearly equal say on spending, and that when men and women live together, both participate in spending decisions. In a survey conducted last year of nearly 4,000 Americans 16 and older by Futures Co., a London consulting firm, just 37% of women said they have primary responsibility for shopping decisions in their household, while 85% said they have primary or shared responsibility. The respective figures for men were similar: 31% and 84%.

Also

Perhaps the closest anyone has come to studying directly the breakdown of overall spending by men and women is a 2008 survey conducted by the Boston Consulting Group. It asked women to complete an online questionnaire that asked what percentage of household spending they control or influence. Their average answer in the U.S. was 73%. While that number was the one made public, the researchers also conducted an unpublished survey of men, who on average said they control or influence 61% of spending.

The original source

Many marketing gurus who rely on the 80% figure cite the work of Marti Barletta, a longtime marketing consultant focusing on women. Ms. Barletta's 2002 book "Marketing to Women" claims that women "handle 80% to 90% of spending and purchasing for the household."

Ms. Barletta concedes that she has no specific source for the figure. "It is sadly one of those rules-of-thumb numbers that everyone in the industry uses," she says. But she believes the statistic is reasonable, based on her work consulting with various industries. "I'm still pretty comfortable with the 80% number," she wrote in an email. "Even being conservative, I wouldn't go below 75%."

[–]JohnDoe95643 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WestsideMoonWalker5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Nah, it's entirely valid. The claim is that women control 80% of all consumer spending, which would include women who are single or unmarried. In this case, the data from that study suggests that men, as a whole, are responsible for a relatively similar amount of spending as women. That second paragraph shows that women influence slightly more spending than men, but again, this just suggests that the 80% number is misleading and useless without context.

A gen pop survey of adults is more than adequate to understand overall gen pop spending habits. Anyone with even a basic understanding of market research should know that. The format for such a study is adequate. It's just not specific to married households, but the claim initially made was not specific to married households either. Unfortunately, I cannot find the crosstabs which is where more specific data would lie.

[–]JohnDoe95643 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WestsideMoonWalker3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Notice that nothing in my sources didn't suggest that women don't influence a significant portion of the spending. It just noted that women's influence isn't so much higher than men's. According to the exact same sources I posted, men influence between 60-80% roughly, of consumer spending, women influence between 70% and 80%. I'd wager that overall women control slightly more spending than men, but as so much of spending is determined by joint decision making, there is a whole lot of overlap.

In my first post, 85% of women and 84% of men report primary or shared responsibility. The 80% figure being cited everywhere more or less has to include people who have primary or shared responsibility, not just primary responsibility.

Without context, just saying "women control 80% of spending" implies that men control just 20%, but that is blatantly lacking context about how decisions are actually made in the real world, which is backed up by the sources I linked earlier.

[–]JohnDoe95643 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WestsideMoonWalker4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

Fun browser extension if you need to bypass paywalls on news sites.

Yea, I've read a lot of those sources, and they do cite that women drive 70-80% of purchases. I wouldn't say that is strictly wrong, but it doesn't tell the whole story, in that there is spending driven specifically by primary decision makers, then spending that is influenced by more than a single person. Sadly, I can't actually find the study they are citing with that figure so it makes it tricky to really parse the data.

I spent several years in the market research industry doing analysis work, more on the B2B side, but the B2C data is interesting. A lot of the data we see being cited isn't super useful though, if it lacks the context and understanding required. Realistically, the way that you'd break this down is..... there's male driven spending, joint spending, and women's spending. Each gender's spending influence would encompass both their own gender's primary spending + joint spending if that makes sense.

Here's another fun article on the topic: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-much-economic-power-d_b_8083666

Here's a direct quote from the WSJ article I linked up top as well

"There is never any sourcing of the number," says Ira Mayer, publisher of the newsletter Marketing to Women, which in 2009 tried and failed to find its origin. "It's become accepted folklore."

I went really deep on this topic a while back because that number seemed outlandish to me, the way it was presented (and it often is presented as.... "men only drive 15% of spending"). Just wish there was more data available.

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[–]geyges🐇 -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]EcocavalryShort bald janitor 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NarniaFox 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]thelajestic 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sad_Top1743Misogyny is not a joke Jim -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]NarniaFox 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Sad_Top1743Misogyny is not a joke Jim 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thelajestic 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Sad_Top1743Misogyny is not a joke Jim 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]thelajestic 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]alberto-hofflover of chads 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]NarniaFox 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I know, but it has its own problems. I'm not sure what I'd rather deal with - pregnancy or problems of adopting. And I'm not talking just about the paper work and all, but about health and mental issues too. I'm not sure about the US, but in Russia healthy children from healthy parents extremely rarely get into orphanages. It's pretty much the rule that children put for adoption have mental issues - being raised in orphanage isn't good for anyone. Lots of them have health issues and disabilities too, especially the ones affecting cognitive abilities due to fetal syndrome and biological mothers using drugs prior and during pregnancy.

So when you consider adoption, you have to be ready to take care of an abused child with a bunch of health and mental issues. It's noble and kind, yes, but I'm not sure that I'm capable of doing it.

[–]alberto-hofflover of chads 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]HOLYREGIME -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]JohnDoe9564Blue Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Cybercunt2069xXxINCELFAGGOTxXx 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChaddamhuseinPost body before calling me an incel 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]angels-fanpoppy-fan 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spacechichen_1990miss hypergamy 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]JohnDoe9564Blue Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Sad_Top1743Misogyny is not a joke Jim 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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When it comes to desire, immediate gratification kills it. You can't sustain desire for something or someone if it's always available to you.

Yes, this describes women's desire to emotionally unavailable men. However, people aren't food, but if you really like/want/love a food, it shouldn't matter how easy it is to get it. That should be a plus.

Wanting something you can't have, at least not right away really fuels our lizard brain and turns an attraction into full on fixation.

Yeah, sorry, I can't really relate. Might be because my human brain is bigger than my lizard brain, so I can't speak for everyone else.

That being said, not everyone is motivated by the greatest 'high' they can get with a person. But a lot of people are indeed chasing a high.

Where I'm having trouble piecing this together is how these people translate getting this high into a functional relationship. It seems like a recipe for disaster, and might explain why so many relationships just end up failing pretty quickly.

[–]Slipthe1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There's a big difference between teasing and building up to a sex act and just doing it as soon as the thought pops into your head.

Yes, one is usually how women feel sexual desire and the other is how men feel sexual desire. Seems like both are just trying to get the other to cooperate and act on their own sexual timing schedule. I'm not seeing where that is translated as "being too easy" though, and losing interest in someone because they like you.

And it's why dead bedrooms happen because the foundation of their sex lives was the lack of instant gratification from their early relationship.

I don't think so. Dead bedrooms can happen in a variety of ways, not just because of a lack of instant gratification from their early relationship. People's sex drives can simply fall off because of work or biological reasons. I wouldn't even see that as a factor unless they were low libido to begin with.

[–]Slyfer_Seven0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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For those guys what I think happens is when she is easy for him his mind wonders to "I wonder how many other guys she was that easy for...if she was easy for me she must have been easy for lots of other guys" and it's that assumption of her being easy in general that turns him off, not that she was easy for him specifically.

It's definitely more nuanced than this. Usually when women like me and show obvious interest, I'm usually left wondering what they're expecting or wanting me to do for them, and that fits with my view that all personal desire is centered around satisfying a need, so that turns the situation into "this woman wants something from me that I don't want for myself and is probably going to be more of a cost to me than to her." I don't think about whether she's possibly a slut or not because that doesn't concern me at that moment. It would only concern me if I was actually entertaining the idea of a relationship with her, which would be further down on the timeline.

As far as women go, they seem to get turned off when guys reciprocate interest too fast, which I'm guessing has more to do with their ego than anything else, which makes sense if we consider that women's sexuality functions mainly on their egos and how they want to be desired.

[–]brojuststfu0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Weekly Community Chat Megathread

Comments

1 - Texas

2 - Florida

3 - TN

CriesIn32Hag 😂🤗

Title	Weekly Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	12
Comments	3618
Date	April 26, 2021 8:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/mz6ik8/weekly_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/weekly-community-chat-megathread.760921 https://theredarchive.com/post/760921