Toxic Masculinity refers to harmful cultural standards that are placed on men, but most of the focus seems to be on how men contribute to it although women are just as responsible.
So, let's turn it around and take a look at the ways in which a significant portion of women harm men and enforce toxicity in them.
From the top of my head I can think of several socially-accepted ideas that are commonly promoted by women
- if he's below 6'4" he's not a man, he's just a boy
By associating manliness with being tall and calling men that don't live up to that standard Not Real Men women make men feel like their worth is primarily based on their physical features and are a primary cause of bigorexia
By associating confidence with big dicks and narcissism with small dicks women enforce the idea that size matters and that men who lack in size are worthless.
By instinctively shouting at any man that drives a big truck that he must have a tiny weiner women make the men around them feel like most of their worth comes from their penis, which objectifies men.
- Man-Flu and making fun of men if they share their feelings
By not allowing men to be vulnerable and by making fun of them if they show signs of sickness once every blue moon when they can't hide it anymore women cause men to act emotionally numb and teach them to swallow their emotions down with alcohol instead of solving them in a healthy way.
I usually solve problems by talking about them, but had several girlfriends in the past that demanded I beat up someone for checking them out too much to show that I care about them. This enforces aggression in men.
What do you think? What other ways can you think of?
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Funniest post so far.
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Wow really? I thought you were talking about rap for a second. But we're so many decades removed rom traditional masculinity, it would be interested in hearing why you think that.
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Toxic masculinity I don't feel is much reinforced by women, so much as women like to embody and perpetuate patriarchal behaviours.
Toxic men are quite often those who are emotionally "bankrupt" and not in touch with the spectrum of their emotions, especially "negative" or violent ones, aggression, dominant abusive behaviour etc. and toxic masculinity manifests due to competitiveness and hierarchies, or "survival of the fittest". It also manifests from men not feeling useful, validated or fulfilled in their work or other areas of life, or feeling undervalued in society. What's considered toxic is violence, aggression or abuse against other people that isn't taking place in an arena, or sports or other healthy ways humans channel their naturally aggressive and violent behaviour.
If you are talking about women, I feel as though all they need to be doing is becoming self-aware of what types of masculinity they personally are attracted to in men to match what type of partner they are looking for, whether that is a life partner / husband / boyfriend / casual partner / male friend.
Everyone has different traits they look for in a partner.
Regardless of sex or gender, I feel everyone is responsible for perpetuating "toxic" behaviour, and quite often there is rampant internalized misogyny, and tons of projection by people who have been treated poorly by other people, or have been hurt by other people and feel resentful towards a sex or gender based on their experiences.
Women often reinforce mixed messaging about men and masculinity (not so much enforce toxicity) in ways such as:
-Wanting men to have strong financial independence and career to be worthy as a partner.
-Wanting men to be tall / strong / any number of external physical traits, which is totally normal to have physical preferences and standards, but we have to think critically about who exactly is shaping these narratives.
-Wanting men to be more decisive and making moves and being in control.
-Wanting men to be vulnerable and open about their emotions and feelings but then regretting it when a man actually does show feelings because the facade of the "strong man" falls away and they then feel unsafe and not secure in their partner who should be able to be a "rock" for them when they themselves have emotional troubles and instability.
-Saying men it's okay to cry and show emotions, but also don't show them and don't cry because men also need to be emotionally stable and strong.
-Generally having so many "rules" about men and immediately throwing men aside and not giving them a chance if they don't meet these impossible rules, while not working on healing their own internalized sexism and misogyny, or being aware of what role they want a man to play.
I think women often reinforce Patriarchal thinking by embodying masculine traits or what you may call "penis envy" such as trying to be socially dominant and abusive in the workplace or other social environments, lacking empathy and compassion, speaking ill about others, treating people like shit etc.
The gender wars / sex wars IMO need to be broken down and women and men need to start thinking about what they personally want in a partner and be aware of these things.
The roles of the sexes have changed dramatically but our biologies and needs have not. I feel as though women have reinforced patriarchal dominant behaviour by wanting to climb corporate ladders and become dominant socially, make a life for themselves, but as they grow older they are still freaking out about wanting to have and raise children, and to want a male partner who will stick around, be a good house husband, do hard work, be a good father to their children and be a rock for them emotionally.
I think if women want these roles to continue this way and want to be the "breadwinner" they will need to cede to have male partners who may not make as much as them or even the same amount of income and allow men to take on more of the roles in building a home. And then you have some women who probably want to go back to just being a housewife and letting the man work a lot and bring home the bacon but be able to be responsible and pitch in in building a home / family.
When it comes to so called "toxic" masculinity, in my experience it has a lot to do with how people who happen to be born as the male sex treat other males and enforce "patriarchal" behaviour which is about power dynamics, exploitation, abuse, psychopathy, bullying, abuse etc. and is considered toxic because it is not a healthy model of masculinity. A man who is not in control of his emotions will become toxic quite often because men need help dealing with their aggressive traits, and need help with identifying their more dangerous emotions which are normal to have, except these types of traits do not serve the "modern man". We are not cave people. We don't need to fight and abuse our way through life and be so uncomfortable in ourselves that we need to project our anger onto other people.
People who were raised in abusive environments and have had shitty role models or lack of healthy role models will often have traits that when gone unchecked lead to so called "toxic" behaviour, which generally involves treating other people as competition instead of co-operating, treating people like shit, being emotionally unaware, not channelling their negative emotions in healthy ways, exploiting other people through forceful and abusive power dynamics, projecting their insecurities and shortcomings that manifest in their daily behaviour and social entitlement.
Quite often women have normalized this behaviour so much or actually seek to replicate abusive behaviour in their relationships, when what we should be stopping this generational passing down of abuse and instead modelling healthy masculinity, regardless of what sex or gender may be embodying it. Having a healthy balance of femininity / masculinity is important for anyone of any sex or gender.
Take a look at dominant pop culture and tell me you don't see toxic behaviour and rampant internalized misogyny continuously be the standard role model for men, women etc.
[–]-ButShes1000Bro- 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[+]LalaTheSecond-5 points [recovered] (35 children) | Copy Link
Hold up. Man flu is not because they are showing sickness. Man flu is because they need to be babied through it in ways women do not. Do I like taking care of him when he is sick? Yes. Is it the worst thing that over happened to him in his whole life? No. 🤣
Also it is a pain to get him to go to the doctor when he needs to so his man babiness is halfway on himself. Yeah if you got antibotics for that sinus infection 3 days ago you'd be feeling better by now.
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[–]LalaTheSecond2 points [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link
Interesting. Is there any studies on why they refuse to see doctors even though they know it would help?
[–]FleischpeitschNo Pill[S] 7 points8 points9 points (5 children) | Copy Link
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But no one is going to call him that though. The phantom of masculinity going to call him on the phone and say "I know you went to the doctor!" Is the doctor going to say, "what's wrong sissy boy?" No they aren't.
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[–]LalaTheSecond-1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Bullshit. Men just don't want to go because they think they are tough. It's not women's fault it is men's fault. No women is shaming a man for going to the doctor for an ear infection. They want them to go to the doctor so we don't have to ask them every day until the finally do it.
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[–]LalaTheSecond2 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Then get new partners because that is not how it is usually used.
[–]FleischpeitschNo Pill[S] 5 points6 points7 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[+]LalaTheSecond-4 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
Do you act like a big baby though? You can admit it if you do.
[–]FleischpeitschNo Pill[S] 6 points7 points8 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]LalaTheSecond0 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
But you said your new girlfriend was nice so that isn't true.
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[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 9 points10 points11 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]LalaTheSecond6 points [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link
Didn't you answer your own question?
[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 6 points7 points8 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]LalaTheSecond2 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Dominate like in what way?
[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 5 points6 points7 points (5 children) | Copy Link
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That's easy compared to taking the pain men try to inflict on their partners for sexual gratification. That's why the woman being up for anything is a bad expectation.
Also I really don't think women expects them to dominate all the time. That's pretty boring.
[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
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Oh I didn't make the original comment at all.
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