FDS and TRP were born and exist due to ugly people who's standards are too high

NockerJoe · 2022-02-23T18:48:30+00:00

One thing you hear from both sides is that less attractive people don't really treat you better regularly. Which is the real issue. Bad behavior has become universal.

lout_zoo · 2022-02-23T17:10:38+00:00

People don't work like that.
When I gained weight and was in poor shape, I didn't start finding other overweight people attractive all of a sudden.
On the other hand, I didn't blame anyone else for being single either.

SupermarketFun21 · 2022-02-23T15:54:32+00:00

This false equivalence comes up constantly, and it’s ridiculous.

I disagree with a lot of stuff on TRP, but its focus is on becoming the person that high-value partners choose, which is respectable.

FDS, despite its name, contains zero strategy for pinning down a high-value man. The only strategy discussed there is strategy to avoid unworthy men (pretty much all men in their view), and that takes a clear back seat to rants about how men are shit.

luliloo · 2022-02-23T16:35:14+00:00

FDS and TRP were born because they feel the opposite gender has had the upper hand for too long.

They both set boundaries to try to take that power back.

Pure_Article_546 · 2022-02-24T01:15:20+00:00

[permanently deleted]

houstongradengineer · 2022-02-23T17:12:51+00:00

Oh no no no. This does NOT track. If someone is too ugly for a relationship or a desirable person, they'd be single no matter what they did and no amount of strategy would change their lot in life.

But that's not what happens. Shit people treat other people like shit- even while dating/wanting them, and strategies are needed (or searched for, at least) to maintain things like dignity and contentment for potential victims.

I would argue that some basic FDS strategies- you can argue the platform all you want, that's not what I mean, please save it for someplace else- are purely protective from a woman's point of view. Literally no one wants to have a deadbeat's child, f'in TRP itself will even spit on such an idea, but they still support casual sex or even evolutionary ideas about spreading seed. Utter BS. Basically, you don't have to be hurt to see the need for female protection- you just need a bit of guidance or life observations.

juliana_san · 2022-02-23T19:27:50+00:00

the pictures/videos I have seen of people who use FDS or TRP related tags on visual social media have shown a very diverse group, many of whom are perfectly average or even good looking. I fully disagree that it's all ugly people with high standards.

Morrigan66 · 2022-02-23T23:19:58+00:00

Lol I think it's also for people that have been really hurt in the past. I liked fds at first but damn they are toxic and hateful. Trp is even worse. They all just need to go date eachother on an island somewhere and let us be.

RicoGemini · 2022-02-23T15:12:40+00:00

I dont go on FDS so i can't talk about that, but TRP is more than what you mentioned.

TRP teaches men to be more confident and to set up boundaries, something a lot of younger men especially lack. It also tries to teach them how to walk away and not to put women on a pedestal, because in reality she isnt a unicorn and this ain't no disney movie

Edit: fixed a typo

Daffan · 2022-02-23T15:43:38+00:00

The majority who subscribe to RP methods (to increase chance at sex), are doing 1000 swipes on Tinder. The standards aren't high, or else it would be 50.

raptorpie747 · 2022-02-23T16:31:04+00:00

OP is on some chaotic neutral shit, especially with that edit being all muh enlightened centrist

But for real FDS is basically for women who make a life time of bad choices and TRP is for men who weren't able to get enough experience in being "men" or are constantly given the "be yourself" BS

Hoopy223 · 2022-02-23T16:04:07+00:00

Most of the pics of redpillers or fds aren’t gross, just average people. I think its more people who have social issues, tough time relating to others for various reasons.

Slyfer_Seven · 2022-02-23T15:25:22+00:00

Haha. You can call me ugly and I may be ugly but there is no way in hell my standards are too high. Also, I have no idea what TRP or FDS means.

effeteintellectual · 2022-02-23T19:36:34+00:00

FDS is hilarious. It’s a bunch of average to low value women demanding to be treated like princesses. They don’t care about becoming better people; there’s hardly any self-improvement tips. It’s all about entitlement and treating men as disposable. They’re probably the most miserable women on the planet.

DivineDaedra · 2022-02-23T15:44:00+00:00

I think it started when it became socially unacceptable for women to act like pickmes. In popular culture the pickme attitude was deeply the norm for women until... not sure... there was a shift maybe in the 1990s?

We would all agree, regardless of pill type or no pill, it used to be easier for average and below average men to find partners or just get laid.

I suppose one could 'blame' feminism but it seems more complicated than that. Women no longer want validation from men in the way they once did. Perhaps it's internet culture. Women no longer have to suck up to men because they get so much attention and validation from social media. I've seen plenty of guys complain the phone in the woman's hand is the real cock block.

So anyway, TRP tries to circumvent this while FDS extrapolates and exploits this.

social_mule · 2022-02-23T15:30:49+00:00

While I mostly agree I'd also add that TRP appeals to men with varying degrees of attractiveness who may have been taken to the cleaners in family court. I assume there's a female counterpart to this type of man for whom FDS provides value.

Malgurath · 2022-02-23T15:38:42+00:00

I don't want "high value partners", I want partners, point blank period. And that's what TRP facilitates. Also TRP isn't about hating women, it's more about opening your eyes to female nature and to accept reality, the guys who get mad are the guys who fight against this reality and want to stay in fairy tale land. Finally, TRP isn't one size fits all, YMMV when adopting its principals and your approach to women.

sarkington · 2022-02-23T15:53:50+00:00

I’d say they’re more fucked in the head than the body or face

midwesternMD · 2022-02-23T16:26:04+00:00

Can’t speak much for FDS since I can’t even tolerate lurking there for more than a few minutes at a time.

And may not fully represent TRP, though I would argue that some of my beliefs/behaviors align closely with basic/“core” TRP.

But I think “core” TRP provides a reasonable framework for a single man trying to navigate the current dating world. And in many ways, perhaps it is apt for men whose standards are too high for them at the time. But from what I understand, it encourages said men to improve themselves so that they can effectively fuck (or date) women who meet their standards.

I don’t see this as necessarily a bad thing though. It’s kind of like having a father figure tell you how it is in the real world of dating. Mind you, I disagree with many TRP “offshoot” philosophies and some of their core ones too. But honestly telling men what they need to do to achieve what they want is a net positive.

A lot of the dating advice for men by women is hogwash. You can have confidence, a career, charisma, clothes, etc, but if your pic isn’t good enough to warrant a right swipe, you’re dead in the water. That’s a truth that no “dating coach” will publish because it’s such a tough truth.

iamthemovie1992 · 2022-02-23T16:38:29+00:00

I don’t think they’re actually ugly, they’re mostly just plain/average looking who yeah are punching above their weight so to speak and are finding not a lot of success.

Like TRP was made to help average guys sort of fill in the gaps to do better dating wise. Some of the advice is actually good (Lift Weights, don’t put pussy on a pedestal, be less outwardly autistic, be more social), and yeah the frat dude who played sports in high school and was popular probably knows this, but an average looking guy who didn’t grow up popular maybe doesn’t know it. TRP comes in to sort of “teach” men what the dudes slaying already kind of know, or just do by instinct. However, sometimes these men stick around after learning and become misogynistic , they stay their anger phase and don’t really become “better”. And the other ones that stick around keep sort of egging this behavior on.

FDS meanwhile are mostly Janes and Beckies who found they were getting sex from the Chads they met, but kept getting “fucked over” and not getting the love and commitment they desired. Some FDS stories are kinda sad, girls basically existing for a “you up” text at 2:00am, doing “wifey” shit, acting like a gf with no actual proof you are, accepting that you are his side chick. Sure, maybe they should have picked better, maybe they knew, but FDS sort of became a space to help with this problem. FDS of course gives some tips, some of which are the female versions of TRP. Some of it is decent advice, a lot of it isn’t. And again, the ones that stick around don’t get better like TRP, they just become more bitter and angry than anything else

ruboyuri · 2022-02-23T17:40:16+00:00

They’re not ugly. They’re normal/average people with mental damage or dysfunction

tegolicious · 2022-02-23T22:37:42+00:00

Nah, TRP came out as a need from a generation of young men who was coming out into the “the new world” were the “old rules” of dating and relationships were not valid anymore. Pair that with many of them coming from broken families, they had no male figures to learn from. If you have a healthy community, you have continuation of raising boys into young healthy men. TRP, was the new “community” teaching men the new rules of today’s society, rules that many will not admit publicly. Ideally you graduate from TRP, you internalize the truths and become a successful man. Those stuck in it, probably what you describe.

RandomRedditGuy322 · 2022-02-23T18:18:00+00:00

TRP was born in response to rising societal gynocentrism and double standards towards men.

FDS was born out of a misandrist hate community that disliked how men only "chase" after attractive women, and that unattractive women have to actually put in effort for their relationship like men. In other words, they believe men and women should not be equal, women should hold privileges over men, and all women should hold these privileges, not just the attractive ones. Hence, why they are misandrist.

LowCreddit · 2022-02-23T20:10:13+00:00

TRP isn't advocating partners, let alone "high value" ones. TRP, RPW, and FDS are all different because men and women are different. TRP and RPW are similar in that they focus on self-improvement. FDS and RPW are similar in that they focus on the female side of sexual strategy.

ppzhao · 2022-02-23T22:55:23+00:00

Can you really call the average man ugly when statistically women rate 80% of men as "below average" in looks?

LotBuilder · 2022-02-24T00:02:53+00:00

I would say it’s due to ugly behavior by both genders

LotBuilder · 2022-02-24T00:03:03+00:00

I would say it’s due to ugly behavior by both genders

RedditDeservesNoHero · 2022-02-24T00:12:10+00:00

This post title is both true and the real red pill

emerald_engineer_08 · 2022-02-24T07:45:29+00:00

Out of curiosity how old are TRP on average?

Most FDSers are between 30 and 50, mostly concentrated on the 30s and late 20s, so they’re typically past their prime or hit the wall. I think %99 of them are divorced or have like 5 ex boyfriends

Just wanted to get some numbers for comparison on TRP, I always viewed them as younger for some reason.

DeJuanBallard · 2022-02-23T15:19:20+00:00

Stop lumping the red pill into everything just to make it sound balanced with FDS, the red pill is about spreading knowledge of female nature and dynamics inside relationships with women and encouraging men to better themselves and have standards. If you don't get that, or some person claiming to be red pill says some wild shit doesn't change that that's what it is for.

PMmeareasontolive · 2022-02-23T16:04:02+00:00

Men are attracted to a wider swath of the female population, vs women who find the vast majority of men unattractive. Your view only works if you believe most men actually are unattractive and most women are attractive. (I'm replying here rather than to automod because I disagree with that presumption.)

OliveJuice1122 · 2022-02-23T16:10:01+00:00

I don’t know that you’ve read much of either FDS or TRP. Lots of very attractive people in both. They date each other also. FDS converts are being spun by TRP and they either don’t know or don’t care because the guy is hot or masculine or wealthy (I’m going to take a chance on this one). Then they get dumped and post their resolve on FDS to not be a spinning plate again. FDS can be so toxic and suspicious, you don’t need to be TRP to not want to date many of these women. TRP is a lot about gender roles, which doesn’t care about looks. FDS is about being respected and vetting or shit testing a man’s interest and intent which also doesn’t care about looks. Some of the women in FDS were treated really horribly and FDS helped them realize they could have seen it coming. Many TRP men were also treated horribly and TRP gave them a framework to place all the pieces into to help them see how not to be a victim.

I’d recommend you read The Rational Male and some of the context behind the stories. Physical appearance matters but it’s not a huge part of the philosophy. Also should “interview” some women from FDS. They’re on this sub. Listen to their stories and why they got where they are. It isn’t about having standards too high. Many wandered into the circles of toxic narcissists and got their lives fucked up. FDS helped open their eyes.

PuppyDontCare · 2022-02-23T16:20:43+00:00

Why are we so sure these people are ugly though?

I've never seen a FDS post of them being ugly. Why do you assume they are?

In the TRP case I've seen many man complain that they are considered ugly, so no argument there.

Emergency-Regret6974 · 2022-02-23T15:17:30+00:00

FDS exists because too many people on r/dating tell women to "just communicate" rather than dump their dumb bfs.

A recent post has a woman complaining that her bf didn't get her anything for Christmas and Valentine's - not even a homemade gift - and they tell her just talk to him. It's stupid.

FDS exists because of women getting bad advice. TRP exists to maximize male slut strategy.

AreOut · 2022-02-23T15:05:08+00:00

nah, TRP is also for attractive guys who think they got the unicorn and then get branchswinged for a similarly attractive guy with more money/status

smallstarseeker · 2022-02-23T15:45:08+00:00

Bullshit. Guys have to do the approaching and have to create sexual tension with looksmatch or even significantly worse looking females.

The only time guy doesn't need to have any skills is if he is in the top percentile and is willing to settle with women which approach him and do all of the work.

mrjolly123 · 2022-02-23T15:08:51+00:00

Yep agree

HazyMemory7 · 2022-02-23T21:03:21+00:00

Well women find 80% of men unattractive so I'm not really sure that both genders' standards are too high. I think the ones with standards that are too high are the super obese, single mothers in their mid 30s on dating apps looking for a top tier guy. Or a hoe with multiple baby daddies thinking any guy will take her seriously.

TheJim66 · 2022-02-23T15:38:11+00:00

No. Looks aren't the only factor that matters to female sexuality.

TRP was born due to men finally understanding how female sexuality actually works(hypergamy,attraction to dark triad etc. Etc. ) and applying that knowledge to get what they want from women. How the dude looks is irrelevant for that realization.

ssnabberz · 2022-02-23T16:00:49+00:00

The replies of all TRP men saying its simply a place to share “female nature” even though countless women have said all the shit the men have concocted & believe about women is just not true, they won’t believe lol. So i think that theory is bullshit based on not even allowed critique by the gender their theories are about

Its still amazing to me that men think they understand how women work more than a woman does who even would honestly try to help you

Designer_Ant8543 · 2022-02-23T16:16:08+00:00

Not necessarily “ugly” but definitely shallow. They buy into traditional gender norms and do not value actual human connection and would rather play games than look at themselves in the mirror. Their partners are merely extensions of themselves, if they’re actually able to find one…

Ugandabekiddingme2 · 2022-02-23T16:48:38+00:00

FDS exists because women are tired of being beaten, ending up in marriages with people they were never compatible with, used for sex, and just tired of the low effort and getting scraps while men get the best of us.

Stevefr0mYellowstone · 2022-02-23T17:11:11+00:00

For the Red Pill, I'd say no. Men who properly understand the Red Pill and are using it to improve themselves are doing so knowing that if they are going to want a more attractive woman they are going to have to up their game. They also understand that even with that, a man typically gets a woman at his SMV or slightly below and that getting one above his SMV is nearly impossible. Those who go in the pick up realm are typically asking out large volumes of women, many they may not be largely attracted to, but go through with to gain the experience.

FDS on the other hand is primarily women of low value increasing their standards all the more and remaining alone.

hypnocentrism · 2022-02-23T15:24:17+00:00

5s who think they deserve 7s and 8s.

No_Exercise_8670 · 2022-02-23T15:18:58+00:00

Yeah, here I am being in relationships 95% of the time since I've be 20(now I am 30) with different girls. I do support TRP and BP and apparently I do not exist.

Classic_Head3437 · 2022-02-23T15:43:35+00:00

I can't change your view because I agree with you. You can't expect more than you have to give. Stay in your lane. I know I'm a strong 6. I can pull trashy hot girls, but I'm not going to do better than that. I know that. So that's what I stick to.

Raju1461 · 2022-02-23T16:18:03+00:00

LMAO. Not even close to true on TRP.

As far as relationship & sex goes, woman hold the upper hand. TRP just tries to teach men to level up and be better at the game. There are men who swipe right constantly on Tinder and wouldn't get a match and then there are pedophiles & abusers who get more matches in a day than an ugly guy gets in his lifetime.

LateralThinker13 · 2022-02-23T21:56:40+00:00

Nope. TRP's first, primary tenet to dating/sexual success is to self-improve. Improve your mind (stoicism, clean your room, stop acting beta), improve your body (lift, bro!) and improve your lifestyle (diet, minimalism, nofap, stop drinking, etc).

How does FDS encourage women to be higher value? Does it teach them to be less picky, to be realistic, to learn how to cook or to take up worthwhile hobbies? Does it teach them to be better mothers? To be more feminine? Most importantly, does it tell them to lose the F'ING WEIGHT?

No. It doesn't. FDS and TRP are NOTHING alike.

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Wildhouse83 · 2022-02-23T16:35:36+00:00

Very true for FDS but not so much for TRP. Even a man with the highest SMV in the world can be TRP or even Blackpill if he understands that his success with women does not come from personality or game but rather from genetics, looks, money and status.

Both TRP and Blackpill are just philosophies about life, dating, the world itself etc. They can be applied both from lowest Incels to Gigachads.

jonrah69 · 2022-02-23T16:41:01+00:00

agree and disagree. like many of the commenters have said technically TRP is more about just learning how to make yourself more high value. Despite this i agree with you and think most of the followers don't actually want to improve themselves and are more blackpiilled than anything. It has been coming up more in this sub but i think a lot of the guys in here that think they are average are a decent bit below average

ManGoneNoWay · 2022-02-23T16:58:33+00:00

TRP and the rest of the manosphere were born out of men who felt threatened, insecure, and unsure about their position in a postfeminist mainstream culture and a late stage capitalist economy. FDS is largely a reaction to the manosphere but is similarly related to the aforementioned societal factors.

Fearfactoryent · 2022-02-23T17:03:56+00:00

What does FDS mean?

Kotansky · 2022-02-23T17:08:00+00:00

What’s TRP?

lissssa-13 · 2022-02-23T17:41:57+00:00

Lol the responses are unsurprising from the people who follow each.

I don’t think they are necessarily ugly, that part probably doesn’t likely have much uniformity across the groups. They just have a lot of other issues that make them unappealing and they have found something to blame and obsess over. Their standards are for sure too high and they are delusional as to what their actual value is. Being able to lie to get someone to sleep with them isn’t “high value” it just makes you a snake. Sitting at home and being mad no one wants to fund your life for no real reason doesn’t make then “high value” it probably just makes them lonely.

Physical-Pie748 · 2022-02-23T17:50:15+00:00

i think fds is worse.

LatterSeaworthiness4 · 2022-02-23T18:06:50+00:00

As large as FDS is, I’d argue it’s likely mostly average-looking women with bad attitudes. That’s what’s keeping them from finding a good man. Their attitudes weed out the assholes and general losers, but they carry a hostility and aggressiveness that is also a big turn-off to good men.

I don’t know anything about TRP.

revente · 2022-02-23T18:21:41+00:00

So what? TRP has never claimed to be some kind of 'fair scientific model' but just a tool to get the stuff you want. I assume FDS is exactly the same.

caption291 · 2022-02-23T18:43:54+00:00

Both sides are bad and the same, Unlike me! I am special because I'm in the center and as a centered person I can tell you that the center is more centered than the non-center which is uncentered.

You're welcome for being enlightened.

ashpr0ulx · 2022-02-23T18:47:01+00:00

i don’t subscribe to either ideology but i don’t agree with your premise. i don’t think it’s about ugly people with high standards. i think both sides respond to mistreatment by the opposite sex, they are groups of people that are upset and usually, with reason. they’ve been treated bad, and each ideology is more about protecting oneself than finding love or sex.

you can be gorgeous and still get your heart stomped on. no doubt in my mind that there’s hot people in both FDS and TRP who have still been treated like shit and now are concerned with self-preservation above all else.

Gandolfinistarboy · 2022-02-23T18:51:48+00:00

HUH?

Rfupon · 2022-02-23T19:13:38+00:00

Agreed, and both of them are women, lol

Prize-Thought-4205 · 2022-02-23T21:54:29+00:00

I just find it hilarious PPD has always had this notion and idea that TRP and FDS would be perfect matches for each other and it doesn’t make any sense why they don’t date each other, no group of people are obsessed with the opposite sex so much yet hold so much resentment & toxicity toward them from past actions members of the opposite sex did or did not do. (Withholding relationships or commitment to women & only using them for sexual pleasure and bedroom fun) on women’s end (Withholding sex and only using them for free stuff, resources, money, validation, to help them out and make the girls life a lot easier, having sex with other men they know & the guy perceives to be an asshole or misogynist getting his Disney princess in her feels)

slavicslothe · 2022-02-23T21:56:23+00:00

I think you’re mixing up incel and redpill. That said there are a LOT of incels financially supporting the redpill and dating coach industry.

sritaunicelular · 2022-02-23T22:03:24+00:00

I don't think there's necessarily a correlation between looks and FDS/ TRP. Some of them are quite attractive, but I find both of them cringey for the most part, except they both do make some valid points.. it's like self awarewolves, almost there, but not quite.

In my opinion, it boils down to responsibility that neither wants to take. FDS blames other women/laziness/porn addiction and especially "low value men" and focus very little (from what I've seen) in self improvement, it's more of a series of weird tests and "not accepting less" and they're all queens without actual emotional work, because they're tired. They believe their worth is inherent, and they want to go back to a time in which there was courtship and doors being opened and all bills paid, but in a world that looks very differently.

From what I've seen from TRP is way more centered around maxing out their looks/skills, similar to MGTOW but with a PUA flair/twist, still dating but rotating women, I think the term is spinning plates? there's quite a bit of resentment too, blaming women for being too choosy and dating chads until they're post wall, off the cock carrousel (which sounds terrifying) and want stability, and most if not all believe that AWALT.

Ironically, they also in a way want to go back to a different time, one in which women stayed with 1-2 partners( if that) virginal, more submissive, dependent and pliable. No tattoos, color hair etc.

In a twisted way, TRP men would be perfect for FDS women because they both "want the best" (and believe they're working toward it) if it weren't for the fact that they both cherry pick the things that they find convenient from mostly outdated social practices, and want control over the other sex by obtaining exactly what they want without providing much in return, they both believe the other sex doesn't deserve the effort for the most part.

DeliciousPussyNectar · 2022-02-23T22:55:10+00:00

This should’ve been saved for the purge.

KikiYuyu · 2022-02-23T23:02:35+00:00

FDS and TRP are just coping mechanisms for sad people. They have to degrade an entire sex to make it a little easier to like themselves. FDS says men are all subhuman trash, TRP says all women are heartless opportunistic harpies.

FabulousFuchsbau · 2022-02-23T23:07:16+00:00

I mean I wouldn’t say ugly but you’re definitely not wrong, I think it has more to do with who than looks.

Uglygirl8666 · 2022-02-24T04:47:24+00:00

yep, same with incel and femcel looksmaxxing groups tbh. They both want to looksmax so they dont have to date each other, even ugly people dont want each other but no one wants to admit

emerald_engineer_08 · 2022-02-24T07:35:56+00:00

What I find really ducking funny is how fds and trp both lack sooooooo much self awareness that they can’t see they became the same thing they hate.

DatingVX · 2022-02-24T14:39:42+00:00

I disagree with the first statement, the second statement defines the main issue we have with dating imo.

There are ''bodybuilding'' forums that discuss sex and difficulties dating. These men are all at least 8+ and have a ton of trouble with women (Because mentally, yada-yada, they arn't up to par to their bodies) - there are also cute feminists. I do agree that the bitter people are usually gonna be less desired

Smdeveryday · 2022-02-25T18:17:01+00:00

There were times I was desperate and hit on ugly women too, but still got rejected. For me I follow TRP because I constantly get rejected no matter who I hit on.

Insidious-Sid · 2022-02-23T16:36:23+00:00

This is just blue pill rationalization of why these groups exist. I never had any trouble "pulling" decent women to have sex or relationships with, and in fact, most of my friends were often surprised how attractive some of them were.

Society has a socially pre-programmed knee-jerk reaction to anyone who doesn't have cartoon eyes about the sexual marketplace. Or towards people who call "love" a sexual marketplace.

So, congratulations. You're programmed. You're running your socially approved scripts.

TRP has given me the Red Pill and now I run my own scripts. They are short and efficient and do not use needless computational horsepower to paint a false picture of life.

So, I can't CYV, because you're plugged into the hive.

But thanks for coming out anyways.

Smitten_Squire · 2022-02-23T18:39:52+00:00

Even if ur ugly, and standards are low, 999.9% you wont get shit cuz you gotta get someone lower than you and ugly is already low

If your talking 5/10's then yeah i agree. But telling a 1/10-3/10 to "jusst go for ugly girls" is dumb lol. Wtf you think their doing

Over_Noise3530 · 2022-02-24T02:30:48+00:00

I get it. Ugly women deserve to be abused and cheated on. They should also be forced to go half on a mortgage with a man who doesn't eat pussy and jerks off instead of having sex with her

Title	FDS and TRP were born and exist due to ugly people who's standards are too high
Author	SmarmyPapsmears
Upvotes	155
Comments	488
Date	February 23, 2022 3:02 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/szjirr/fds_and_trp_were_born_and_exist_due_to_ugly/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/fds-and-trp-were-born-and-exist-due-to-ugly-people.1103305 https://theredarchive.com/post/1103305

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