What exactly is a average guys "league" when skinny and plus sized women play on the same level playing field?

Shebalied · 2022-07-18T16:47:53+00:00

I dunno, I think the girl in the link (#4) in the OP is pretty cute. She's not like a Stacy 10/10 obviously, but I'd go out with her in a nanosecond given the opportunity.

This is the type of girl I think of when people try to shame guys into "lowering [our] standards:"

https://images.unsplash.com/photo-1573878222998-40b24a653ac8?ixlib=rb-1.2.1&ixid=MnwxMjA3fDB8MHxzZWFyY2h8MXx8ZmF0JTIwd29tYW58ZW58MHx8MHx8&w=1000&q=80

AelfredRex · 2022-07-18T15:26:49+00:00

Ya know, you actually have to talk to real women out there in the real world in order to have real sex and real relationships. Competing with hypothetical men for hypothetical women purely online is insane.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2022-07-18T16:39:23+00:00

You know the average man in the USA is overweight too right? Anywho, why not focus more on if the woman has the same life goals, lifestyle and hobbies as you rather than if she is in your league or is your looks match. Looks don’t cover up a bad attitude, over spending or incompatible life goals. Relationship are about more than sex.

NOTSM · 2022-07-18T15:44:14+00:00

Fat chicks and skinny chicks don't play in the same league and anyone telling you that they do is delusional

ExpensiveShoulder580 · 2022-07-18T17:25:28+00:00

I'm usually into fit girls, but the pictures you posted are pretty hot ngl.

I guess all women are out of the average man's league, which seems ridiculous to say but if they are attractive to better guys, then it would make sense they'd go for better guys. Especially if they see some of their friends settling with better guys, then they'd subconsciously think that they deserve that too.

Play_Muted · 2022-07-18T15:54:21+00:00

nothing. bunch of rejections to finally land someone who is uglier than him.

anon018274031 · 2022-07-18T15:22:48+00:00

Oh look another post moaning about PPD’s favourite topics

1- women being fat (even though men in the USA are equally fat)

2- average women having a magic key to the top men. Even though walking down the street tells you this isn’t true

Oh I do love the post diversity

2022-07-18T17:17:10+00:00

This is getting so normal to me that I don’t even think she looks that bad 🤭🤭

baresquad · 2022-07-18T15:18:04+00:00

What exactly is the average guys league

A guy's league is specific to him and him only. Sure 2 dudes may both be average but based on damn near an infinite number of factors, those 2 dudes will have different "leagues"

We go wrong with grouping everything as a hive mind or by categories

One average dude may be an really good conversationalist and have a certain personality that allows him to easily do well with all women while another average dude might be a bum and asshole so has to settle for whatever he can get

So we can't really say what the average guys league is. Some average guys do way better than other ones.

GlowingAsItDazzles · 2022-07-18T15:09:30+00:00

your league is what you can get. nothing more

wtknight · 2022-07-18T17:02:05+00:00

There is a math that means that attractiveness matched people are going to match up. Women may demand men slightly better than them, but if they demand men too good for them then it’s not going to work out for them. That’s just how things work.

themostgianthorse · 2022-07-18T15:48:16+00:00

Sperm is cheap. Eggs are expensive.

The average man will always have a more difficult time generating interest than average woman.

It’s not easier to be a woman; it is different. It’s not easier to me a man; it is different.

Worrying about leagues is a waste of time. Fuck a fatty if you want. -Create the best version of yourself. - Approach. - Accept the results and learn from them while not being attached to the outcome (easy to say; can be difficult to do). - Don’t be needy.

lkjhgfdsaa · 2022-07-18T19:43:38+00:00

Redpill men: life is so hard for us, society is so horrible to us, why can’t women treat us nicely and sleep with us 😔😢

Redpill men: who would ever find a FAT WOMAN attractive they are DISGUSTING and no one should have sex with them or even look at them 😡

gofigure62 · 2022-07-18T15:29:41+00:00

Fat is becoming the standard, so a skinny or in shape woman isn't "Average".

Without seeing people, or knowing exactly what they're doing to fail attract someone, then it's impossible to say what he's doing wrong (if anything).

It could be a multitude of reason, including non-PC answers.

throwawaylessons103 · 2022-07-18T15:43:26+00:00

[permanently deleted]

techr0nin · 2022-07-18T16:44:16+00:00

To be honest I think this is primarily an anglosphere problem. My advice would be to date foreign women or move/travel to a different country.

Liberated_Asexual · 2022-07-19T02:55:14+00:00

Kind of meta to this thread, but after what I've experienced on another thread — this subreddit sure does attract a lot of fat women in their late 20s/early 30s.

It's all just a big coincidence they can't find a man to commit to them.

🤔

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-07-18T16:17:03+00:00

Skinny and plus sized women do not play on the same field so the premise is just incorrect.

dynospectrum7 · 2022-07-18T19:27:45+00:00

Those girls aren’t thicc, that’s fat and gross.

pearllovespink · 2022-07-18T19:26:23+00:00

I saw a comment about how plus sized women don’t like fat guys and I asked why were the women plus sized but the men were fat?

Zuck7980 · 2022-07-18T20:17:16+00:00

I like thicc girls, nothing wrong with them, but there’s a threshold of thickness, above that she is just fat and I don’t like that because I do my fair share of work to keep my body in check and maintain my average body, which means eating healthy and do workouts at least 2 times in a week, sooo I expect her to maintain her body as well.

Starter91 · 2022-07-18T21:28:30+00:00

Have you ever seen a woman that made your heart skip a beat, where your friend went “she Aight”? Dating is like that. There isn’t a universal template for attraction.

Fungirl1265 · 2022-07-19T03:01:46+00:00

Honestly I love bigger guys my self so wrong I actually don’t date guys under 200 pounds not enough to hold onto to and I love the cuddles

WilliamWyattD · 2022-07-20T02:17:10+00:00

There are various competing female beauty ideals, from thin and nubile nullipara to more voluptuous earth goddess types. The male beauty ideal never involves fat, really.

Women naturally have higher fat percentages, thus according to dimorphism theory, any trend like obesity that pushes both genders in the fat direction hurts male attractiveness much more than female.

So if a man and woman are equally overweight, even relative to normal fat % for their gender, the woman is typically significantly more attractive. The world is not equal or fair. Men need to get over it.

GottaPSoBad · 2022-07-18T16:39:19+00:00

Skinny women and overweight women don't play on the same level. They go after the same men, but those men don't reciprocate equally. If what you meant is that most women aim for the same top 20th to 10th percentile of men, then you're basically just stating the obvious. But to assume that they have equivalent success rates is ludicrous.

That aside, if women date up on average, and men date slightly to noticeably down on average, then the answer to the question of "average men" is obvious: Date reject women. Or just level up enough in some way to increase your SMV, and then date average women.

pop442 · 2022-07-18T16:28:53+00:00

Ehh..."average' is a broad term to begin with.

I mean....most men don't look like Adonis/Chris Hemsworth or like literal hunchbacked ogres.

I'm an average man(6-7 range) but I still get considered handsome every now and then. I don't know where people have this idea that average men can never get compliments from women. You don't have to be "Chad" to find some women who are really into you or find you highly attractive.

The "average" man's league is very much dependent on where he lives, his station in life, his social life, the types of women he's after, etc.

It's also possible for average men to compensate by maxing out on qualities within their control. For instance, I'm a very multi-talented dude despite being average in looks. I can sing, dance, play the piano, do incredible impersonations of others, and can make people laugh. I also have a nice paying job.

Things like this can make it easier for average men to get a lot of dating options without being a "Chad." I'm 5'9, slender(though I'm working on a 6 pack), drive a 2008 Corolla, wear glasses, have bushy eyebrows(not like Anthony Davis but very thick).

Average men can get above average looking women if they're willing to put themselves in positions where they won't solely have to rely on their looks for dating. Some call it compensating. I call it competing.

NinjaOfTheSouth · 2022-07-18T15:16:14+00:00

Average men still have to compete with men richer then them, taller , better looking , etc. So these men are still having beat out those men to get with a women on his level.

The average man’s league is realistically a women that is ugly or he can genuinely have a connection with.

Im_The_Daiquiri_Man · 2022-07-18T16:35:10+00:00

The fact that it is even a debate that those women are fat slobs is pathetic.

Go to France, Eastern Europe or any country in Asia and try to sell them on the delusion that those gluttonous buttergolems are “hot” and you’ll rightly get laughed at.

Face it, in the west, being fat is easy. It shows low character and a lack of Will power. That’s it.

Being fit is difficult and requires self discipline and awareness. Something in very very short supply with American women in particular.

And a fat woman caking on makeup and using instagram angles doesn’t mean shit.

It’s easier to throw on some makeup for half an hour and wear spanx than to, you know, watch what you eat and exercise.

This would be like if a short, balding man put on 4 inch lifts and a wig every day and said “see what an amazing genetic specimen I am!?!”

Once the lifts and wig came off, he would get laughed at by some being “insecure” and a fraud.

Did I mention that being short and bald are actually immutable traits, while being fat is 100% changeable?

For the love of god, this coddling and deification of fat women (hi Lizzo) is a fucking cancer.

MickIsBlue · 2022-07-18T16:28:59+00:00

I don't what the hell is this subs problem. The girl in the picture looks good as hell. Thick in all the right places

januaryphilosopher · 2022-07-18T16:43:52+00:00

How does a fat woman taking a picture of herself prove that fat women are seen as desirable? They're not, they're aware and men are very vocal in reminding them.

MickIsBlue · 2022-07-18T16:29:27+00:00

Id say the women in the photo with a good enough face in a 7

KaleidoscopeEyes12 · 2022-07-18T16:33:41+00:00

Both of these women are severely obese.

And no, according to studies on attractiveness slimness is one of the most important things in how attractive a man finds a woman, ideal BMI is around 19 or so (drops clearly below 17, but gradually after 19), and even in african communities more important than WHR. Slimness is a more predictable fertility indicator.

(Slim low whr > slim high whr > average low whr > average high whr > fat low whr > fat high whr)

This is the same as saying a chubby man deposits fat in his abdomen which is a sign of high testosterone.

As for casual sex, well that’s because women are more in demand on the SMP than men are.

2022-07-18T16:57:26+00:00

I don't date fat chicks. Period. I had a hookup from Tinder that looked decent enough in her pics. When she showed up I was totally turned-off. She didn't even misrepresent herself. The idea sounded okay until she was on top of me.

A man has to have standards. Women do.

JumboJetz · 2022-07-18T19:02:03+00:00

I’m a slim guy who has an obese fuck buddy so I am contributing to the problem lol

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-07-18T19:08:02+00:00

If she can get a man who is more attractive than you (for relationships not casual) she’s probably more attractive than you. It’s that simple. It’s all about how you carry the weight more than your gender. Hourglass fat women with pretty faces are perceived as pretty attractive. But so are tall muscular fat guys. Apple-shaped fat women aren’t, and neither are dumpy fat guys.

Al_Harith_Arethas · 2022-07-19T08:56:28+00:00

I would rather be celibate until death than to date an overweight woman. It's not a neutral reaction to them, or simply no attraction, it's full on disgust. It would be a net negative to my life, wouldn't even be able to touch them. Luckily based on the age, location, and demographics I'm exposed to in my life they aren't as common as you would think just going by a "American average". If I moved somewhere in the south and my age range jumped up I would autoreject a good 50% of single women

Sounds mean but I'm being honest. I'm a fit person so I feel like I'm allowed to have this standard. If I was a normal fat American man I'll be a hypocrite

SmakeTalk · 2022-07-18T18:20:56+00:00

The honest truth, as much as it's tough to hear, is that it has a lot more to do with your personality and your ability to be charming, fun, and interesting.

Outside of being in the smallest minority of people in some aspect (weight, height, etc.), which is inherently outside the average, most men have the capacity to become appealing to some women they like if they do the right work on themselves. Are you gonna start pulling every woman you look at? Obviously not.

Are you gonna find someone you're into who's into guys like you if you're in a good place and are able to present that properly and in a charming way? Absolutely.

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penis_loverrr · 2022-07-18T15:55:51+00:00

Usually someone below avg. He needs to go for the bottom tier women.

toasterchild · 2022-07-18T16:39:27+00:00

Its whatever person will date him.

fvckit88 · 2022-07-18T17:53:01+00:00

Can you post a pic of what you’d consider the average guy looks like?

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-07-18T17:53:03+00:00

What is "average" here? 74% of Americans are classified as overweight.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2022-07-18T18:10:44+00:00

Honestly, as an average guy your gonna have to find your niche and get in where you fit in. It won't be the same for every guy, my advice is to talk to as many women as possible from every background and see who you connect with.

KingHalfrican702 · 2022-07-19T00:36:13+00:00

OP is asking the real questions. Tbh as a man you just gotta deal with the double standards and focus on yourself . I don’t think OP is asking for particular advice but the only answer I can formulate is to work on yourself man. The dating market is a little skewed right now, but it’ll correct itself in time.

ALulzyApprentice · 2022-07-19T01:39:06+00:00

Looks matter and yeah, not sure I have the muscles to manhandle what was linked the way they prolly desire. I'm not weak or small and I'm not obese.

IDK, if they were super sweet to me and very nice and I knew I could make them happy, maybe? Too bad most women I meet are just not sweet and kind these days. Feisty is fine if they can also be sweet. Again, maybe and much closer to not.

Regardless of any desire I could have I doubt I would make them happy.

Ohms2North · 2022-07-19T03:57:17+00:00

Fantasy Football League

Deltajonn · 2022-07-19T06:40:56+00:00

That’s a hog right there!

immoral_mage · 2022-07-19T06:55:11+00:00

I suspect it’s because in the usual dating age women are in their prime while guys are only in their prime once they are older (an age where it would be creepy for them to date women in the usual dating age).

This creates an economy where only the exceptional guys can date girls their own age.

Other guys have to wait till they’re old enough to be able to date a younger woman without it being too creepy (noticeably creepy)

EmptyVisage · 2022-07-19T07:30:58+00:00

There have always been societies that prefer to pork portly partners. If you think them being heavy means lower value competition, you will be sorely mistaken.

Dubi12345 · 2022-07-19T13:12:07+00:00

you mean this meme? . Anyways jokes aside i find the women you posted pretty attractive. Not sure if i just have lower standards or smth.

OriginalRushdoggie · 2022-07-18T19:53:29+00:00

Maybe if you refer to a fellow human being as "obeast" instead of getting to know her as a person, you shouldn't be surprised that they don't want to date you?

SouthernGrass3 · 2022-07-18T15:47:20+00:00

Those are both attractive fat girls with (from what we can tell) good proportions even though they are obviously bigger than the ideal.

The average guy is fat with an average face and average proportions; those women would certainly be out of his league.

2022-07-19T06:07:01+00:00

Chick in this pic is not just a lil chubby or thicc....she straight up fat.

moodofmaidenhair · 2022-07-19T08:28:51+00:00

Hm. It’s almost as if weight doesn’t determine the value of a woman. Crazy

Midnight_Toker_1982 · 2022-07-18T15:35:46+00:00

For the average (3 or 4 on the scale) man? It’s not good. Your league is pretty much this subreddit, and half of the great folks here do NOT like men in general, soooo….

kokorwqac · 2022-07-18T16:20:03+00:00

I personally think rail thin works better on men than women, just don't be a fat guy then it would work. Still though, some men will think a girl being skinny would put her above average by that alone, thus she's not playing in same field

2022-07-18T22:30:10+00:00

I think that your body type doesn't change though. You can be fat and have a great body shape and I think that is what makes the difference. First girl def has the ideal body type she is just I'm sorry to say... fat but her body type is ideal. Her waist is small in comparison to everything else which is what guys are attracted to

ruboyuri · 2022-07-18T16:39:03+00:00

Uh, you do know that skinny and fat men also exist?

Head-Language-2977 · 2022-07-18T19:52:40+00:00

A in shape guy is out of a fat girls league

TheMedsPeds · 2022-07-18T18:24:48+00:00

...remind us that plus sized women are now seen as "voluptuous" and "curvy"

They can try and sell this shit to guys doesn't mean you need to buy it. Fat women are still slobs. No matter how much makeup you want to put on or how much you claim that you are beautiful. Sorry a blob of fat isn't beautiful or attractive or whatever euphemism you care to use.

SpiritualPasta · 2022-07-19T01:05:38+00:00

It’s simple. Men look for Women who would be a decent mother as in; ideal birthing hips, a healthy amount of fat for energy when Breast feeding, and larger breasts to accommodate for breast feeding.

Women look for men who would be a decent provider, protecter and father; So basically somebody who couldn’t hunt wild boar and defend against a predator wether it be an animal or another person.

Men and women are SUPPOSED to look for different thing. Don’t get me wrong OBESE women aren’t attractive and shouldn’t be. They’re not healthy and have a higher risk for health problems in both personal life and when giving birth. I think a women who is under 40-35% body fat is fine and great, but the pictures your posting is of probably around 25-30% body fat.

A male with these percentages is just fat most of the time. Which inhibits the ability to defend and provide, as well as just overall causes health issues. Ideal Male body fat is 20% or below. 15% and below being above average but completely reasonable.

yamb97 · 2022-07-19T13:00:30+00:00

Idk I am a woman and I find both of those women pretty hot but most skinny guys are not. Is it my social conditioning? Was I born this way? Who’s to say. I can say males are just in general less aesthetically pleasing

TastyCucurbits · 2022-07-18T18:16:29+00:00

The problem is that there isn't some universal average, where if you hit a certain level you can date literally everyone near that point.

'Average' is more accurately the average of your social group, status group, and type range. You could be very attractive and still be average for the type of people you want to date.

This is why charts and stats that talk about averages across a given country are misleading, because it means nothing without knowing where you end up across those three categories first.

calfshrug · 2022-07-18T22:41:55+00:00

[Spoiler] THE FOLLOWING is not in an attempt or aim to denigrate or dehumanize any parties, observe any epithets and terminology as just an association with terms that people use which refer to phenotype and percentile-looks-ranking which os based on both genetically-influenced and elective factors. I believe that all people are worthy of receiving the blessing of the golden rule and all humans are worthy of respect, compassion and autonomy over their own lives]

Fat, ugly, nerdy “ethnic” girls, fat low socioeconomic status young women who are cursed with not having an hourglass / possess a ‘gunt’, or sub-par looking and 30+ y.o. single moms/ women with demons (drug addiction)

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2022-07-18T22:46:36+00:00

I think it is relative to your proximity. If you are surrounded by a bunch of low quality fat women I can't figure out how you rationalized you are worth more if you cannot even organically be in the proximity of people of your supposed "caliber". What is a 'quality man' with no options? Do they not see the logical error?

2022-07-18T23:03:19+00:00

Is there something about you that keeps you from finding a girl who is similar to you looks wise? Shitty personality, no interesting hobbies, antisocial, not meeting new people but still blaming women for not showing up to your doorstep?

tookiebird86 · 2022-07-19T00:24:40+00:00

word of advice to OP…quit lookin at BBWs on plumperpass, can’t derive your observations from that

Nextlifedreams · 2022-07-19T02:04:42+00:00

She looks like my friend who has always had guys all of over her and is now happily married. And I don't care for you calling such a woman a "porker". Why don't you post a full body pic of yourself? People like whatever they like, and you will never figure it out. How about everyone focus on what they like instead of what footballers or whatever likes?

MotleyCrew1989 · 2022-07-19T03:26:04+00:00

Number 4 is not thicc, thast just fat, thicc is Christina Hendrix or Jennifer Love Hewitt in her good years, voluptuous but with a good waistline

Impossible_Yellow751 · 2022-07-19T04:24:03+00:00

I don’t date people who are ashamed of my body I have liked all different shapes men the thing I was into was there masculine faces but I never judeged them but if someone kept me. A secret I would never date them again

TomBerwick1984 · 2022-07-19T08:14:21+00:00

There are women with the same weight as the girls you've posted that don't have the same fat distribution.

Those girl's fat primarily goes to their hips, ass and thighs - most women have fat disruption that goes to their mid sections when they put on weight. Many men like the hour glass figure, and those women have it. They may be an unhealthy weight, but their body shape is sexually appealing to many men.

Not all fat women are shaped the same - some have bodies that are significantly more sexually appealing than others.

IMO once you believe that there are 'niches' and body shape preferences, the idea of 'leagues' or 'looksmatch' is really only a ball park or vague concept.

giyuuo · 2022-08-10T16:47:53+00:00

god you're disgusting lmfao

Title	What exactly is a average guys "league" when skinny and plus sized women play on the same level playing field?
Author	Johnny_Autism
Upvotes	156
Comments	479
Date	July 18, 2022 3:06 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/w21nel/what_exactly_is_a_average_guys_league_when_skinny/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-exactly-is-a-average-guys-league-when-skinny.1123973 https://theredarchive.com/post/1123973

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