Daily Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2022-02-01T17:00:13+00:00

This daily thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc... in...

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Why NOT go for a doctor? Why do you care how she spends her free time if you're equally as successful and ambitious?

I'm one to want to date an ambitious woman with a career, my ex was a NP and my current situationship girl has a degree in neuroscience. BUT there's a valid argument to be made that a man may decide against dating a woman with a high powered career not because he's intimidated by the career or earnings but rather because he doesn't want the prospective mother of his children to spend 12 hours a day on the job.

What the other commenter said is broadly true. The type of guy who can pull a woman doctor is, by the docs own admission, a man with a masters+ or with lots of money. These type of men have options. Some may choose a doc and some may not, but there are valid reasons for choosing against the doc.

I'll repeat my ex was a NP and I'd easily date a doctor if we were compatible otherwise.

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I try to put myself in their shoes. If they found another guy they found attractive, they might try him. But for a lot of girls, for whatever reasons, but for reasons they find hard to unilaterally change, very few men come along that tickle their fancy at all.

So for them, sometimes life seems like an island where that guy is the only guy with a penis and every other guy is a eunuch. Yeah, she knows that tying him down is a longshot. She knows she is wasting critical time. But not only is he the only qualifying candidate she can find, she also has needs. She wants some sex and intimacy. The times together are better than anything else she has had, or that are on her radar at all. So there is a tragic element.

Women's high standards often get in the way of their own happiness, and are not that simple to change by oneself. They aren't this enormous privilege that so many men think they are. If a woman could switch a button and be as attracted to guys that would treat them nice, be in less demand, and commit without cheating, of course they would. But it just isn't that easy. One has to understand the tragic aspect to all this, for both genders.

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Well that's a pretty significant factor to account for when looking at the whole story.

But even then I can get not having huge group celebratory photos, but no natural/candid pics at all within like a year?

And teen appearances change fast

Teen appearances are dynamic and erratic I'll give you that, but that's mainly just style/aesthic.

The average teen isn't shifting so drastically in raw physical appearance that a picture that is a couple months to possibly a year old wouldn't be atleast semi-accurate.

Like there was one point in high school where I had green hair, pretty significant change but not one that makes me completely unrecognizable.

If someone used a picture of me 4 months prior and just captioned it to say that "this person may currently have green hair" it wouldn't be perfect but it'd still be effective.

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This collection of links doesn't make much sense.

I'll repost my comment, as the user who originally posted it as post has deleted it.

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average. (US Dept. Of Health/Census)

Where's the link for this claim? "US Dept. Of Health/Census" isn't really a link, there's no even a year or the name of the article.

I've found another study and there doesn't seem to be an increase in suicides among children from single parent households, although there's an increased mortality from accidents:

Our analysis indicates that within-state increases in the percentage of children living with single parents were associated with increases in children’s mortality from accidents and homicides but not from suicides. (Nevertheless, the results for suicide were in the same direction and approached significance.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7466844/

There's another study that found that there are higher risks, but not 5 times higher and here we do see "63%", but these 63% account socioeconomic, school and health-related difficulties:

The girls living with parents divorced/separated, in reconstructed families, and with single parents had a 3-fold higher SA risk than those living in intact families. Over 63% of the risk was explained by socioeconomic, school, and health-related difficulties. No family disparities were observed among boys. Girls had a 1.74-time higher SA risk than boys, and 45% of the risk was explained by socioeconomic, school, and mental difficulties and violence. SA prevention should be performed in early adolescence and consider gender and family differences and the role of socioeconomic, school, and health-related difficulties.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4127271/

Another claim with no source.

90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

No year, no any other info about the article or stats or whatever it's supposed to be.

85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

Again, not real source for the claim, as just naming the organization doesn't really mean you've given enough data to find the article you're talking about.

80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

It's interesting that they've omitted another fact from the same article:

As noted in Table 1, significantly more compensatory offenders came from stable families than any of the other three groups (Newman-Keuls, p<.05).

The article itself also doesn't use the phrase "fatherless homes". The quote:

In total, 80% of the displaced anger offenders came from single-parent homes (i.e., nonintact parental marriages), compared with 69% of the exploitative offenders, 60% of the sadistic offenders, and 40% of the compensatory offenders (x\<sup>2=22.16,p<.005).</sup>

What's also important:

Except for the compensatory individuals, only 20% of whom were neglected, over half of all other offenders were neglected as children (i.e., basic physical and/or emotional needs of the child were not met)(x\<sup>2=7/79,p<.05).</sup>

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247744731_The_Developmental_Antecedents_and_Adult_Adaptations_of_Rapist_Subtypes

I guess no one is surprised that boys who get abused and neglected, especially by their own mothers, have higher rates of becoming rapists. It would be interesting to see a similar study controlling for abuse and neglect and whether non-abused and non-neglected boys from single mother/father households have higher rates as well.

It also would be interesting to see the ratio of these different kinds of rapists to see what is the most common one. I haven't found the study, you're free to link one if you know. I've found one article though:

About half of rapists, according to Dr. Prentky, are in the category he calls ''exploitative,'' men for whom rape is an impulsive, predatory act.

...

Dr. Prentky classifies perhaps a quarter of rapists as ''compensatory,'' men who feel acutely inadequate as men and are obsessed by sexual fantasies.

...

For about 20 percent of rapists, Dr. Prentky says, their rape is actually an expression of displaced anger and rage.

...

5% Are the Most Dangerous Finally, about 5 percent of rapists are sadistic.

https://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/05/us/study-lists-ways-to-deter-rapists.html

If dr. Prentky is right, then the most common type of rapists isn't really the ones with displaced anger.

71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Again, it isn't really a source, it's hard to find it when they haven't given even the year it was published.

I've found another study though:

The hazard of dropping out is the highest for adolescents raised in families without either biological parent and lowest among two-biological parent families. Model 1 does not show any significant difference in dropout rate between single-mother and single-father families, or between single mother and stepmother or stepfather families.

Whereas having a parent divorced or separated in the previous year significantly increased an adolescent’s risk of dropping out, having a parent getting remarried or starting a cohabiting relationship does not increase the odds.

Another important note from the same study:

Higher family income and parental education level lower the odds of dropping out of school. In Model 2, when controlling for family income and parents’ education levels, the dropout rate among single-mother families becomes significantly lower than that of single-father, stepmother, and stepfather families. This means children raised in single-mother families are doing much better than children from other non-two-biological-parent families when family financial and human capital resources are the same.

https://sci-hub.ru/10.1080/10502556.2012.635964

The odds ratio for Model 1, taking single mother households ratio as 1, are:

for two parents - 0.43

single father 1.17

Model 2 has different ratios, again, taking single-mother household ratio as 1:

two parents 0.74

single-father 1.59

So controlling for income and parents' education levels, single-mother households don't clearly don't have 9 times higher rates of school dropouts. In fact even the first model didn't show this kind of a different.

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Wanted to make a post about this but can't find the right sub.

I'm trying to unlearn some habits that make me more masculine and less attractive in the eyes of men and trying to learn some things that make me more feminine in how I interact with them.

Why doesn't anyone talk about how hard this is?

For instance, when a man is being patronizing towards me regarding something (doesn't matter what), I can't call him out on it because I have to mind his ego.

Instead, I have to say something like "It's sweet that you're so concerned about me <3" or "It's sweet that you want to help me" depending on the situation, or something else that keeps me in "feminine energy."

When you don't talk to anyone like that (and I haven't), it doesn't feel natural and you feel like you're being manipulative.

I've always been direct with men and very masculine/independent in my energy and trying to unlearn decades of habits/values is incredibly hard. But I want a boyfriend eventually, and I know a lot of what men find attractive in a woman comes down to how nurturing, agreeable and caring she is (I'm not being anti-feminist, just stating a fact).

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See, I worry based on what you’re saying that you would fall into my “avoid” category. Constantly getting aggressively called out for stuff doesn’t make people fun to hang out with, male or female. Calling it “mansplaining” slightly worries me too (I find many feminist women make gendered assumptions about things that aren’t really driven by gender), but I’ll assume we are talking about the real thing for now.

This situation cuts both ways, though. Women “femsplain” to men all the time. I’ve had women explain straightforward domestic things to me as if I don’t know because I’m a man. Do you think you they would take it well if I came out swinging with call outs like “you misandrist jerk! How dare you assume I can’t do that because I’m a man!” I really doubt it. That tells me that it isn’t really a gendered issue, it’s just about being pleasant to be around.

My preferred approach is just to tease them about it. Something like acting like I’m an idiot and asking for an explanation of increasingly obvious things. Just enough to make it clear I’m not exactly happy about it, but keeping things lighthearted and less antagonistic.

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[–]chalkandapples5 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm also naturally masculine and most of my hobbies are traditionally male. I'm also very direct and independent. I don't think men dislike that, if anything I have found it to be beneficial. It's also a very bad idea to fake your personality. For example, if someone is being patronizing to you and essentially looking down on you, you shouldn't want to date him even if he wants to date you.

What I do think would push not only men, but people away, is hostile energy. In your example, it's possible that he's just being disrespectful and think less of you. But it's also possible that he's isn't sure what you know, or that he just likes you so much that he's looking for opportunities to help you. He's not sure if you need help in X, but he's grasping at straws to connect with you, so he's offering to help hoping he might be helpful here. You don't have to pretend that you're impressed by him or stroke his ego here, you can politely tell him that you don't need help, but you appreciate his offer and that's really nice of him. Because it probably is a nice thing to offer. If you try to read these things in a positive way, rather than in a more sinister way, you'll naturally be happier and come across as more secure in yourself too.

Nurturing, agreeability, and caring are all good quality traits. But it's not exclusive to traditional feminine energy. My dad is all of these things and he's very stereotypically masculine.

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[–]figuringMylife4 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think you should understand the balance between being a doormat and being feminine.

I have a very naturally bubbly personality, very optimistic and happy. But I also used to be confrontational and combative. This is an ego thing. Let it go. Be mindful. Take a deep breath before you respond to anyone, and maybe several before you respond to an annoying man. haha.

Being feminine is actually so powerful, once you release your ego, and I suggest you practice as much as possible. Men are very dependable when you allow them to be.

i think the only women that need to stroke a man’s ego are like sugar babies and escorts. you can prove your intelligence, make a man feel like he’s helpful, and leave any conversation on a positive win-win manner through proper communication and actively listening.

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[–]MisterJose1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's an interesting approach. Again, my primary thought is that it shouldn't be necessary. There are any number of men (including me) who would find it super refreshing to get to deal with someone with a personality we could relate to more. It seems like that would make it easier to find a personal connection, not harder.

I go on dating sites myself and have issues with just how alien some women's personalities are to me. I think very guy, and so women on the other end of the spectrum I can't relate to at all. Some of them DO seem like they might be deliberately doing the cutesy passive thing to try and be attractive, but all that does is make them seem fuckable but nothing else to me. And most of those women claim to be looking for 'the one', so I don't know how they thought that approach was best.

You're telling me you're not just looking to be desired, you have that already, so I don't know how doing the girly-girl thing is going to improve things for you. There should be guys out there who are attracted to you and find you easier to connect with on a personal level because of your masculine temperament.

[–]John_Oakman2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Ok, well I wanted to try a recreational drug with this guy (that he has experience with) and he was very condescending about me possibly trying it, basically implying that I couldn't handle it despite KNOWING that I've had experiences (both good and bad) with drugs in the past.

I was mad at him for his assumption, but instead of telling him that, I just said "It's sweet that you're concerned about me!" because I felt like it was the nicest thing I could cough out.

I was just upset because I'm not some naive little girl. I'm a grown woman and I feel like I should be talked to as such.

Other problems would be like explaining things in a condescending manner. Or acting like an authority on a subject. Or being overly critical. These issues are more rampant in men than in women, I've found.

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Have you met a guy and felt tingles for him? Like really felt attracted? From what I know you’ll likely automatically do this.

I mean if you really want to change, you can try to work on the root cause. It’s almost impossible to fake this, if inside you are fuming at how patronising, condescending or mansplaining he is then no matter what you say, your non verbal responses carry a lot of irritation.

So you can try to actually believe that his comments come from a good place. That he cares and is not trying to attack you, that he could have just ignored you.

If you feel like it is something he should know, you can call him out but in a non confrontational way. Feminine behaviour doesn’t mean you always let the other person have their way. You don’t do it directly, as a manly brute. You use your brains… shame him, not directly… praise him, thank him, play with emotions, compare him to others, you have so many tools, it’s a tricky game but play it right and he will act the way you want him to act and he will thank you for it.

You might be struggling because you aren’t true to yourself, what do you want to communicate shouldn’t change. How you communicate is key. Don’t be direct, loud, crass, etc. leave clues and think snide comments, subtle praises, innuendo, implying stuff, it’s all high emotional intelligence play ok.

You can do this with other women, get into drama, join cliques? Socialite groups…

Now all this is. Something you could try but maybe you are a bit autistic, maybe you are just too happy and comfortable being direct and “masculine”. Yeah you won’t appeal to most men but men aren’t as picky as women so if you put in effort you can find a guy who will like you.

You should not hate the person you are trying to become because even if you are feminine, if you don’t love that you, it’s way harder to find someone who loves you.

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[–]Mark_Freed1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

still want to call him out on his bullshit lol.

you need not be so hard on yourself. This last girl I talked to was such a sweetheart. Like so feminine... she was really agreeable, cute. The kind of girl you just want to hug.

But because of her being such a people pleaser, often I would find myself wondering what her "true" thoughts are. These girls are hard for low EQ guys to handle because they are not going to directly call out our bullshit, we need to pay attention to smaller clues that we fucked up.

If I bullshit, she just gives me a pass, laughs it off, but because I did not know, I keep doing it, which starts to hurt our relationship quality. So here communication suffers.

I know it's a problem which is why I'm trying to change.

My point is, it is more nuanced that it being a problem. Ideally you need control over how you behave. You need to understand the guy you are talking to, how large a ego, how fragile, how much do I like him.

You need to balance not hurting his feelings with communicating your feelings. Going to either extreme is not smart. Also you could start with politeness and once he falls for you and really likes you, you can start to keep it real with him and he will take it.

That sounds like passive aggression to me which is unattractive.

I am no expert on this, but I was trying to be more general than just "how to handle someone being patronising".

There is a large tool set here. A set of behaviours which leverage your emotional intelligence to communicate effectively. So if you are struggling with one narrow area - "how to communicate with a guy I like".

You can get better by practising in other areas too. You won't meet guys you like often and chances to practice are lower. So you can try to be more feminine with friends, family, with yourself.

Try taking up feminine hobbies, change how you dress, posture, etc.

Yeah passive aggressive is unattractive but it is also a feminine way to be unattractive. I was writing just what came to my mind so I said it, but there are parts of femininity that you don't have to embrace.

gossip, reputation destruction, focusing on externalities, manipulation, shaming, entitlement, helplessness. They are all extremes, so it is good to have an idea exactly where the spectrum is orient yourself on that axis.

You should try to ideally pick up only the good parts but if that seems too hard maybe it is because you are trying too hard not to adopt the "bad" parts. The truth is, these things usually come together...

When I want to be a masculine guy and I want to be assertive, confident, bold, take initiative, but I also don't want to take stupid risk, I want to stay polite and nice, and not be an asshole. It sounds great in theory but to find that balance I have to be willing to be wrong on either side.

It will take time to find that balance.

Can you explain a bit more?

this whole thing is basically communication. How you express yourself. There are implicit methods and explicit methods. You calling someone out is "explicit". You are focused on the words. You just care about being clear, you convey the information and it not your responsibility how he emotionally reacts to it.

When you communicate implicitly, you are taking into consideration your relationship, his emotional state, his experiences, your experiences, your goal is not to convey information but to change his emotional state. You want him to feel happy and appreciated because he took his time to help you. You want him to feel sorry and stupid for telling you what you already knew. You want him to like you more because he admires your intellect. Your communication style here will depend on the person, you will leverage tone of voice, pitch, body language - facial expressions etc to get this done.

This is not something you can plan out in advance, you practice and get better at it. In a healthy relationship snide comments should never happen, especially I am a fan of open clear communication but "feminine" women tend to be so used to being indirect that when they are frustrated they pass these comments. Even if they don't do this to their partner they might do this to people they dislike.

Men tend to value time, they want to communicate quickly. They can't risk any misunderstanding so they go the explicit route. Being direct, loud, crass helps if you are hunting and need to coordinate. But in social situations, feminine modes of communication is prevalent. In high society, you have all these masks people wear, politeness, fake congrats.

This is is why I was trying to say, extreme femininity can also be unattractive. All things in balance. But if you are struggling, the easiest way to change is to change your lifestyle.

The friends circle, hobbies, how to carry yourself, the kind of media you consume.

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In college I knew a girl who was a religious conservative. She was forever sweet and harmless, but when it came to things like homosexuality, she would dutifully quote how the Bible said homosexuality was a sin and how she could not abide such people and how no accommodation should be made for them.

This frustrated me at the time, because I knew, just from seeing the kind of person she was, that if she approached the situation in a vacuum, she would clearly see gay people as decent humans who were suffering and how it made no sense to condemn their relationships. But the ideology got there first, so instead, it just became a feedback loop of her quoting the ideology as what was.

This reminds me so much of many aspects of feminist ideology. I really think a lot of women, in the same kind of vacuum, would be able to see that men suffer regularly just as much as women, that men do not feel powerful, and that no one is behaving as if all of society could be described as oppressive male patriarchy at it's core. But...the ideology got there first.

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Because my experiences so often deal with wanting to find an understanding that everyone suffers, and that understanding and sympathy are a two way street, and so often when I try to offer that, I get a stubborn insistence that, no, it's primarily they who are being wronged, and they're not moving from that position.

To me it's kind of like dealing with radical/ideological thought of many kinds, as my comment suggested. It was the same for me arguing with Trump supporters in pastyears - I was constantly trying to say "I hear you, are you willing to hear me?", but you always wind up in the position where you are the one putting out that effort, and never the other way. It starts to seem unfair, and you start to wonder why this group of people always needs to be taken out for ice cream just to be reasonable.

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I'm sure some feminists have been raped, but I don't think most have. I think more their negative experiences just involve dealing with horny men and/or feeling like their only value is in their physical desirability. I talk to women one here who often eventually vent about what it was they went through, and it was usually just a shitty relationship or constant approaches by men, possibly a stalker in there or something. Not good, but not rape.

You have to realize that I look at women and they seem lucky to me, because it seems like they don't have to deal with all the things that have utterly crushed my soul in life and been the primary torture of my existence. However, I do know that the grass is always greener, and that that perception does not indicate reality. But that's true the other way too, and I can't help but wonder if some women don't realize that - they're seeing the grass a super green over here, when it's really not.

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Blue pill is basically survivorship bias. Think about who Blue Pill mostly is, women and simps.

Women have survivorship bias due to being women. Just look at OLD data to confirm it. Can get 100 matches on their first day, so they don't struggle at all when it comes to "getting" a partner. Their job is to filter out the bottom 95% of men. What a struggle! If you wait long enough eventually the right guy will come. And that's it. Just wait for the right guy. No pursuing no nothing.
Simps have survivorship bias due to probably doing the friendship route, for every post of women hating on friend zone guys, there's at least half as many posts by women saying they wanna be friends first, take things slow, get to know each other. Then she decides if he is worthy of providing or not before condemning him to a dead bedroom. But hey, at least he just had to be nice, right?

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Take it away, Michel Houellebecq (from Elementary Particles):

In reality, men don’t give a damn about their kids, they never really love them...

There used to be a time when... Children existed solely to inherit a man’s trade, his moral code and his property. This was taken for granted among the aristocracy, but merchants, craftsmen and peasants also bought into the idea, so it became the norm at every level of society.

That’s all gone now: I work for someone else, I rent my apartment from someone else, there’s nothing for my son to inherit. I have no craft to teach him, I haven’t a clue what he might do when he’s older. By the time he grows up, the rules I lived by will have no value—he will live in another universe. If a man accepts the fact that everything must change, then he accepts that life is reduced to nothing more than the sum of his own experience; past and future generations mean nothing to him. That’s how we live now. For a man to bring a child into the world now is meaningless.

Women are different, because they continue needing to have someone to love—which is not and has never been true of men. It’s bullshit to pretend that men need to fuss over their children, play with them or cuddle them...

After divorce—once the family unit has broken down—a man’s relationship with his children is nonsensical. Kids are a trap that has closed, they are the enemy—you have to pay for them all your life—and they outlive you.”

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I think your second point is hella important though. I come from a very liberal family and 3-4 years ago I would have rolled my eyes at someone criticizing feminism, I was pretty much bluepill if anything (really, I just haven't thought that much about this stuff). But once it slowly sunk in that a lifetime of celibacy might very well be my fate, I started to agonize over this whole topic. I now believe that women and men need to get on the same page. That's my general idea behind solving gender stuff. There has to be an element of "let's embrace our differences as women and men", but right now progressivism has thrown that very idea out the window, the vast majority of non-sexist people utterly refuse to even consider such things and imo that's actually really fucking bad and unhealthy.

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If you magically turned these women 22 again, would they still want nice guys

Depends on the women. Some do have real insight into their situation but I'd argue most don't. So the answer is HELL NO. They love the craziness, the partying, the drunkenness, and the drug use. It's exciting and novel. Weed use is practically a requirement right now (depending on where you are).

As marriage continues to crater and societal pressure dissipates, this epiphany phase will disappear IMO. Women can definitely get casual relationships with whomever they want all the way up into their 50s. Inceldom going to get more frequent as women have no need to pivot to the nice guys.

Also there's a lot of gaslighting of "nice guys". If you think you're a nice guy and get no attention, then you're pretending to be a nice guy! You're not really nice. Whole thing is a joke.

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One way to get more insight would be to find out how they treat their sex-partners after their epiphany compared to before, both sexwise and outside of sex.

If they treat their partners better, e. g. more and enthusaistic sex, putting in more effort during dating and not insisting on unilateral financial investments like presents it seems likely, though not 100 % sure that they really learned. But again, not 100% as those could also be explained by other factors, like baby rabies or making enough own money.

If the treat their partners worse, e. g. less and more unenthusiastic sex and making them jump trough more hoops than their previous partners, it seems more likely that they are "settling". (The bad form) Though those things could also be explained by her finally learning her boundaries and change of preferences which could have nothing to do with less desire for her now partner. And the now partner (and we observers) have only limited comparasion as you hardly now such details about her life before you met her - and she has every incentive to lie to you about it.

So this things is where we could start investigating and gathering data.

I personally lean to the more cynical explanation though it is oviously a mix of both. Anecdotally the guys I see having success with women all the time vs. the guys I see having success with women only when they (the guys) are 27+, the first group is definitly hotter. Also, evolutionary, it would make the most sense to safeguard women in their most fertile years from bad mate choices, since by the word of the women in the video this isn't happening, either evolution failed, we have an evolutionary mismatch or it works exactly right. Women using their "best" years to get a child from Top 20 % Guys and then using their remaining leverage to get a top 50 % guy to commit to them and help raise the child in exchange for companionship, sex and a child from the provider guy, though of course the children-part doesen't necesserily apply in the modern age of contraception. So just a sub-Type of AF/BB - the "over-time" type, rather than the "cuckoo" type.

A very interesting discussion about this here:

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2006/06/cads_and_dads.html

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i often hear men look for sex in relationships and women look for stability and if thats the case fwb would be the most desirable kind of relationship for a guy

Red Pill Kool Aid, pay it no mind. Any man who fonds me sufficiently attractive to have good (keyword) sex would also be thrilled to also have me as a partner. Men enjoy cuddles, shared meals, financial stability, and companionship, too. Many women also LOVE sex, myself included.

but we’re not at the age where stability is a big deal yet,

Obviously your gf or fuck buddy or whatever disagrees. ALSO, even if the relationship isn't going to last forever, I'm sure no 18 year old girl wants to seek a ton of FWB's who will likely do things like pressure for nudes, leak nudes, spread rumors, and spread diseases. Sticking with one person at a time and limiting partner count is safer, and might even lead to better sex for girls and women. It does statistically. High school students don't need to be having sex anyway, and there are only 2 teen years past that. While stability may not be a big deal to you, it likely is a big deal for much of your dating base already. I never offered the option of FWB- it's not as though boys or men had a choice with me. As it should be, generally.

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Individual people are often stupid, vain, shallow or terminally misguided. Men or women. Why is this a surprise? Women are on a winning streak. They are feeling out the limits to their new found power, including what they can get and whether that actually makes them happy. Think USA after winning the Cold War. Takes some lessons to bring people in such a power back to reality.

It isn't as if men haven't abused power, often to their own long term detriment, when in a position to do so. So this trend of insulting individual women for not understanding the mating game perfectly, or what their real needs are, is annoying to me. Think of how much misinformation is out there. Think of guys dreaming of getting swole and then fucking their way to happiness. Like even if they fucked twice as much as they hoped for, it wouldn't get them where they want to go. People are stupid, weak and prone to the temptation of short term pleasure. Women too. I'm hardly shocked.

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https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/simzpi/feministidentified_men_were_substantially_more/

"We analyzed data from the 2018 Sex in Canada survey (n = 1,015 cisgender men) to examine the association between feminist identification and reported use of prescription ED medication (EDM) during men's last sexual encounter. Feminist-identified men were substantially more likely to report EDM use than non-feminist men, even after controlling for alcohol use before sex, erection difficulties, sexual arousal, sexual health, mental health, and physical health. One explanation is that feminist men may use EDM to bolster their masculinity when it is otherwise threatened by their identification as feminist. Another is that non-feminist men may be less likely to use prescription EDM because they view accessing healthcare services as a threat to their masculinity. It is also possible that feminist men are more likely to use EDM because they wish to maintain an erection to better please their partner. Lastly, feminist men may be more honest about EDM use than non-feminist men, even though rates are similar. Regardless of the exact reason, therapists can use these results to tailor sexual health messages to clients based on feminist identification. Future work could employ qualitative methods to understand why feminist men report higher rates of EDM use than non-feminist men."

even after controlling for [...] erection difficulties, sexual arousal, sexual health"

Alt right conservative weak pp confirmed

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I think this is smth women aren’t willing to accept because the men irl don’t outwardly slutshame.

No, try again.

They love sluts. That’s how they get casual sex.

This is it. This is why women don't accept shit. Loving sluts and casual sex like an absolute rake makes a man no better than said female sluts. To act otherwise is delusional, offensive, and arrogant.

I am a woman who got married to her first partner. He had low-ish N count, too, and he was at least reasonable in his assessment of behavior without being sexist about it (for the most part). If things were different, I wouldn't have wanted to marry him either.

Men do care about things like status and reputation amongst their circle.

Do you honestly think women don't? Do you honestly believe that most women would OK with having the status of "wife to rake who fucked her entire friend group"? Like, no... Red Pill female preselction crap is bunk in the sexual sense. No one wants a heavily sharpened pencil.

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Men aren’t penalised for having casual sex like women are. It’s what it is.

They aren't punished by men, which is BS.

I’ve yet to see a woman reject a man on his past if he otherwise satisfies all her criteria.

I've rejected men on their past, of course it was still impacting their present when I made the call but yes I paid attention to men's N count and sexual tendencies. I made decisions based on that. When I was getting more intimate with my now-husband, he told me at first that he was a virgin. I don't think thus is fantasy at all. Women who want monogamy want men who are capable of monogamy and suited for it. It's not as though men can wake up one day and suddenly not mess around with the town anymore. If my husband had been with just one of my friends before, thats a No-go. Even women who will Daye High N men don't appreciate being in those circles with him anymore for status reasons. I can understand low N men choosing low N woman and vice versa... but for one gender to cat better than the other for the same sins is just wrong.

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I know this was inspired by our conversation but funnily enough the one girl I know who had a very firm size and shape requirement for a dick was one hell of a Trainwreck.

So I went out with friends in their city and our place to stay fell apart. We ended up at one of the friend's GF's place and the Trainwreck in question was her roommate.

In the space of an hour long conversation upon the first time we've ever met this girl, she went on a massive spiel about her Trainwreck of a life:

Went into great detail about her "perfect dick" which included that it must be 7 inches long, thick with a "mushroom head".... literally no one asked.
She was complaining that her fuckbuddy fell through on her, only for another one to appear at the end of the night.
despite being a student at a prestigious university, she was talking about how she was going to be a stripper because her friend was making money from it... didn't have the heart to tell her that girls with armpit hair and loads of self harm scars aren't exactly the demo that would make a lot of money...
Told many other stories about her sexcapades of varying entertainment. This woman had zero social awareness yet acted like she was the most enlightened MF ever.

She was so annoying that we had to find yet another place to stay. One of the few promiscuous girls I've met where I've thought "girl you're a fucking mess".

....so you may be onto something 😂

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Someone sent me a dm regarding something i said akin to using women for practice. I also ran into comment suggesting “practice gf ” being much worse than rape.

Let’s dissect the context of what this word actually means. I think alot of women here imagine “ i need a fresh body to practice cunnilingus” or “ i need an ugly chick to use until i finally get stacy” these are sociopathic behavior. It’s kind of a reach to think that’s what a lot of these men are thinking.

In actual real life, alot of women/men, younger ones in particular, don’t know what they want out of relationships. There’s no intent, agreements or anything of the sort. They swipe cause they’re lonely. They date because they feel unattractive. This can happen well into their mid 30s before they are content and throw in the towel.

But in these relationships there’s always something you can learn. There are relationship skills to sharpen and well as personal skills. Self improvement is one thing, but the improvement you achieve from getting involved with other people is understated. If you have a growth mindset, majority of the things you do before you reach you goal is essentially practice. If we can achieve these things without hurting anyone, and more importantly hurting yourself, that’s the ideal.

This is mostly aimed towards people who are on the sidelines waiting for something magical to happen, while life passes them by. I know women who had bfs because they just wanted a bf (didn’t even think of the future) same with men. While it can appear shallow, to associate that with “rape” and “manipulation” is wild to me.

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he can choose the type of job though. If he chooses finances, he can sit on his ass and make buck. Theres no option to skip out on the bodily labor of pregancy and choose a mental task instead.

He still uses his body and he still has no choice wether to be reliable for the choice he didn't make, for 18 years. In most cases though he already has a profession and a job, so while in theory, he can chose, he could have done so way before the pregnancy happens. So saying that he has a choice in this cotext is like saying that you have a choice wether you want a surrogate to carry your child. You'd have to make that choice retrospectively which is not possible. There is option to opt out from the bodily labor of pregnancy, it's called abortion, and you can choose whether you do it or not, while he has no say at all in it.

also, let's note that she only "has a choice" if abortion is legal. We are discussing what sort of legality would be fair for the father's choice, not the state of the current system, which is what most of you comment focused on.

Well, given that abortion is legal and widely available troughout most of the developed world, whereas "financial abortion" is available nowhere, i think everything we said here so far is relevant. We are discussing the issue of bodily autonomy though and in all cases the man uses his body (yes, brain is part of it) to make money even if he works in a less risky field, yet there is no choice for him.

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I'm in favor of paper abortions theoretically, but I believe they should protect women as well. There should be a limited timeframe when a man can refuse from his parental rights and this timeframe should leave enough time for abortion.

I guess if I was in this kind of situation, I'd terminate pregnancy. I wouldn't want to give birth to a kid whose father didn't want them. If I decided to be a single mother, I'd rather use donor sperm.

I'm pretty sure I won't get into a situation like this though, as my husband and I discussed extensively what we'd do in case of an unplanned pregnancy and when we both were teens and had a pregnancy scare, he didn't run as a fucking reindeer, he was there for me and he said he'd accept my choice. As it's, well, my body. Turned out I wasn't pregnant, it was a faulty test, but this whole situation did show his character. And the fact that we both were dumbass teens who really considered the possibility of having a kid.

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Do you think that the law should allow him to make that choice (based on the same principles of bodily autonomy) or do you think he should be held responsible against his will?

He doesn't get to make the decision about my body, and I'll most likely keep the baby as I believe in parenthood and I can work my ass off for it. I'll honor his wishes and leave him totally out of it. His name will be forgotten. "I'm not financially ready for this commitment" would realistically, outside of this hypothetical, be a total dealbreaker before sex even occurred with me. I married my first partner.

I don't sleep with men and risk pregnancy- however low the risk may be- if we haven't already decided that we were as ready for commitment as possible. If he ain't ready, yet I am, I'm not chasing a man. Baby or no baby, let me repeat this: I am not chasing a man. I'm not having a flaky man interfere with the life of myself and my baby. I will change my name legally and move countries, even. So no, the decision isn't his, but also his personal responsibility can't be forced. It is what it is.

I wouldn't say anything. Once I've been asked to abort my child, that's the end of the road. That's the final nail in the coffin if there ever was one. As much as I believe in a woman's right, I also believe in being responsible and I believe in families. I would do anything not to have an abortion, and anyone who is ever inside me will know it.

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[–]houstongradengineer3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If they don't seem bored, maybe they aren't. He's bored. What ideas does he want to be entertained by? Or does he just want to do something easy like cook at home? That's fine of course he wants an equal partner someday, but on date 2 does he really think she's it? Christ, he's even seeing other women. Stop with the ridiculous idea that we treat you like a partner when you're hitting on other women. You're just a guy, you aren't a partner. We can eat dinner out together and get to know each other like people. No man is having a home-cooked meal at my place, then at Stacy's tomorrow. Period. The home is for boyfriends, and he's pushing that awfully fast. A whole lot of words to say he wants to do less work. Good for him, but if women are saying no it's a no. And what does any of this have to do with his confidence? Is he actually nervous to go out and be around people? But he'll spend time at the home of a lady on a 3d date? Make it make sense

[–]nothatyoucare2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]nothatyoucare3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're interpreting this in the worse possible way to make a point that's not there. Some people are already fucking by date 3. (I had "I" in there but I don't causally sleep around like that) He's been thru date 5 already and is working on date six. So there's some familiarity there by that point.

Ok so spending one on one time with someone you have romantic feelings for is way different then being out in public. One on One is more lowkey, you're focused on one another, don't have to deal with weirdos, stranger danger, or covid.

Now them, when he mentioned partner he said,

I've been on 5 dates with another person and it almost died out, but we talked and are going on a 6th date. I am struggling to come up with new and "exciting" ideas. She isnt helping much with giving me ideas or pointers of what she would like to do. If she is looking for a guy to sweep her off her feet and show her the world then that is not me unfortunately. I am not a tour guide, I am looking for a partner. Id be happy to cook a meal together and watch a tv show/ play a boardgame.

In other words, meet this guy halfway. If he's done and arranged 5 dates then there shouldn't be any issue at this point for her to arrange and take care of a date. But he's not even asking for that. He's asking for ideas and she's not even doing that. All he's expressing here is he wants someone to be willing to do for him as what he does for them. What's the problem with that?

As far as him dating multiple people, people do that here in the US. I wouldn't do it personally but that how people do. If you want to be mad about an expectation to give the guy an idea for a date because he's going on dates with another girl then you shouldn't have taken the date with him.

[–]houstongradengineer0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

there shouldn't be any issue at this point for her to arrange and take care of a date.

If he was making just that point, that would be fine I suppose. Planning outings and stuff can be a group effort. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with him talking about that part where he wants to share meals at home and stuff. Who tf is fucking on date 3? Not I! Makes the multi-dating thing so much worse. If you think about it, it reads like he wants to smash. This is what I mean by thinking about it: a simple "my place or yours" can lead to him asking to see his "potential partner's" home. And who doesn't cook breakfast with their SO? And then who doesn't talk mutually about how to spend the rest of the weekend? And then who has time for whole weekends of mad fucking with a new, great partner if you're seeing multiple people? Bro just wants to hit, the flowery words mean nothing. Men are so transparent.

[–]nothatyoucare3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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He’s going to “show me the ropes” sooner or later, might as well know if if it’s worth getting involved. I know lots of people feel they absolutely need to have feeling and commitment first, that’s great for them. I just don’t see a lot of point in getting emotionally attached to someone who I want as an exclusive sex partner, only to find out sex with them is mediocre. I dated a 6/6/6, total package, only fellow engineer I ever dated. He had it bad for me for a long time, too. Yikes. Sex was terrible. I even gave it a second try. I put a pretty high priority on a good sex life, I can’t even imagine if we had dated months and I had been emotionally invested, only to find out I had signed up for mediocre sex.

I’m well aware lots of women don’t get what they sign up for, many sign up for years of marriage without sexual passion. It’s just not for me.

Why did I commit to my husband? Because I fell in love with him?

[–]houstongradengineer0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well, lol…not ALL sex makes babies, in fact some of the most fun sex doesn’t even stand a chance. And there is birth control.

How do you know if you want to have sex with someone by….not having sex with them? I dunno. You demisexuals do you.

Trust? Well ya, fucked up there with my ex since after 7 years he decided he wanted to have sex with other women. I get it. He was extremely sexual and I was his first. But that would have happened if I had waited or not waited when I met him. In reality, I can’t blame him, I wanted something from him he just wasn’t ready to give.

Mind answering what could possibly be off?

The 6/6/6? Well…he was off….how did gravel roads describe your typical engineer….”high inhibition conformist” . (Not to knock your profession, I was one too). Not off for a different type of woman, just off for me. He was definitely high inhibition. My ex had been a virgin…but very, very low inhibition, low disgust. My husband is also low inhibition and, as I’m sure you have guessed by now, so am I.

For me the strongest aphrodisiac is a guy not afraid to show desire. You know how all romance novels talk about being ravished, lol. A man who simply wants to ravish you? Once you have seen it and felt it there is no point to sex with a man who doesn’t feel like that towards you.

We are all different I guess, c’est la vie. I always say you high inhibition low count types can stay in your lane, we’ll stay in ours.🤣

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]houstongradengineer1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

To paint a picture for you: I loved a boy once. I post about it far more than is probably healthy. But ANYHOW, I loved him and I saw him again as a grown man. He said "we are going to my dorm" on our second personal meet as University students. I cannot overstate the absolute mental fit I was having in the moment where he told me where we were going. I had been assaulted about 4 times already by young men on really casual personal meets. This man I met with was going to be my ride on this particular day. I trusted him- fuck, still today I would trust him with my very life. But this sentence he said caused me to freak the f out. My life flashed before my eyes for 3 milliseconds. It took him 3 milliseconds to come out and say "we are just going in, I'm getting my contacts, and then we're leaving." My God, the way he just knew what to say before I could even react... I couldn't have been more relieved. He always made me feel safe like that. Anyway, I thanked him for not being a total asshole and making me comfortable. He took that as a sign that we should no longer hang out. And that's how I lost my first love for the 3d time. That's how I feel about going home with men :-)

[–]nothatyoucare3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]houstongradengineer1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

would inviting you into his room while he grabbed his contacts made him a total asshole?"

He wasn't an ass- he immediately followed up with a statement explaining himself to make me comfortable. He addressed my feelings that he automatically understood because of how well we got each other. That's loveable, and worthy of the utmost appreciation. I went into his room. He grabbed his contacts and that was it. He drove me home, and I never saw him again.

What would have made him the asshole is if he asked me to his room without saying anything else, especially in the "we are going there" way of asking, because in context it was inappropriate.

I'm capable of "this is how I feel about it but other people probably feel this way" when the extremes of my circumstances come that much into play.

Is it possible? Sure. Am I the outlier? No, not if the people have only spent less 10 hours together. Alone time at home would be awkward for most people probably especially if there was sexual tension but no sexual discussion beforehand.

[–]nothatyoucare1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]houstongradengineer1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That sexual discussion can definitely happen within the moment and you let things take their course organically.

The organic way of doing things involves things like STD testing, contraception, packing a bag, staying a weekend, establishing exclusivity. The "letting it happen" thing is for people who meet at bars and take risks. Some people live that life, it's their choice, and it comes with costs.

What do you mean fuckboys ruined what for us?

Fuckboys ruined the idea of hanging out at home casually. Haven't you seen that Tik Tok with that guy who does "begin scene"? Haven't you seen TRP advice about "pushing past LMR"? Fuckboys ruined the idea of hanging out at home with no pressure. And that's not even to mention my first paragraph about conversations that take a lot longer than 1 or 2 easy breezy casual hangouts.

[–]nothatyoucare1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The organic way of doing things involves things like STD testing, contraception, packing a bag, staying a weekend, establishing exclusivity. The "letting it happen" thing is for people who meet at bars and take risks. Some people live that life, it's their choice, and it comes with costs.

Or you can wear a condom on the first few encounters. And packing a bag the first time you go to someone's house where things may or may not get physical is not letting things happen organically. That's planning on things happening in a way they very well may not. I dont know Id want to stay the night a person's place the first time we were intimate. Would have to see how I felt at the time.

Fuckboys ruined the idea of hanging out at home casually. Haven't you seen that Tik Tok with that guy who does "begin scene"? Haven't you seen TRP advice about "pushing past LMR"? Fuckboys ruined the idea of hanging out at home with no pressure. And that's not even to mention my first paragraph about conversations that take a lot longer than 1 or 2 easy breezy casual hangouts.

You're just upset that men have libidos is all. I lot of women have some deep found resentment that men have actual sex drives. Clear, honest, and direct communication and resolve a lot of that.

I mean, would you be as resentful if a girl invited a guy over to chill and then she got in the mood and start making moves on the guy?

Haven't you seen TRP advice about "pushing past LMR"?

I may not have. What that mean?

[–]houstongradengineer1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I may not have. What that mean?

Damn I wish someone could help me out in a rop comment. I'm not into TRP subs and I don't have lonks. Basically TERPers will hot/cold a woman or07 just bail on her or guilt her if they are in private and she doesn't have sex. General behavior that makes women uncomfortable with home hangouts. It's called "last minute resistance" because women aren't taken seriously when they say no that late in the game. It's a shit show- we can't have y'all over unless we want to smash.

Or you can wear a condom on the first few encounters.

Nothing organic about that IMO. I'd personally rather work it out with big people words so I don't have to mess with that.

packing a bag the first time you go to someone's house where things may or may not get physical is not letting things happen organically. That's planning on things happening in a way they very well may not.

Plans change, but I want my clothes and also emergency trapsort back if I have to leave and also the invite so that we feel welcome. It feels right to me.

I dont know Id want to stay the night a person's place the first time we were intimate. Would have to see how I felt at the time.

I knew what I wanted. An exclusive, welcoming lover to enjoy time with. I knew my husband and I had chemistry and we were most likely going to have a great time, but I could always leave if an emergency happened. We were tested for STD's, we were very close, we talked about it life. You get ready before you do a thing the right way, but you also plan for the worst. That's organic.

would you be as resentful if a girl invited a guy over to chill and then she got in the mood and start making moves on the guy?

To be clear: I'm not "resentful," but it seems a lot more casual to have sex that way. It's not typically the way into LTR, and it wouldn't allegedly work for the guy who made the post. Wouldn't work for me. It's less organic and more adrenaline junkie IMO. People can do it. I won't judge, but it wouldn't feel right to me. It's not my order of things at all.

[–]nothatyoucare1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]houstongradengineer1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You called one group fuckboys for doing it is what I'm pointing out.

I mean... if the man gets consent that's great and all, but if he pills some coercive TERPer crap that's a fuckboy and deserves to be slurred as such.

Condoms in this case are you like your bugout bag. There if you need them.

Well I find out I don't need one beforehand. In my case, if I 'needed' a condom, sex wouldn't happen. I would NEED my getaway money and car. Not gonna come over if I haven't at least tried to check first.

But intimacy can happen without being so planned out.

Yeah it can, but I know I don't like the results so I make sure to do it the way that's right for me. Of other people wann fuck around and find out, I wish them all the luck in the world and that they are equally as respectful with their partners

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[–]houstongradengineer1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Umm? Like, what did I cook for my husband? Simple stuff at first just out of necessity at the time. We didn't have whole weekends to devote, sadly. Normally I would've preferred to spend make time and do something fancy together. Nowadays, we make lots of rice, vegetables, and vegan pasta. Also smoothies. I'm open to cooking many things or him. I enjoy cooking. Over the years, I've cooked a lot. I do the vast majority of the cooking in the home myself out of ingredients he helps choose at the store. I even get creative and make vegan chedd'r biscuits, banana chocolate coconut mini muffins, protein cookies, other vegan cookies. And that's all just since we recently converted to more vegan diet- his idea. If I can convince him to buy the stuff, I want to make my favorite spaghetti squash dish with avocado pesto sauce soon.

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Most men end the friendship after being rejected, this is what women hate, that men don't stick around.

I would love to see just once a girl end a friendship with a dude because it was hurting him emotionally to be with her (but not be with her) and she wanted what was best for him including sacrificing the long term friendship they had. That level of real empathy is unicorn rare, and would immediately make me seek her out, even for just a friendship because she is the real deal.

In short women want to be our friends, but they suffer the same problem in a way, you just don't know how to be really good friends, self sacrifice is encoded in us by society, and that is why ultimately our real friends should come first and one should never get into a position where we put our partner in a pedestal above them.

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Anyone saw the Tinder swindler? The show is quite interesting.

Just like guys here complain about all the fake hopes they were fed, the nice guy/nerd finally gets the hot girls movie.

But girls also expect the prince charming, the great kiss, the romantic courting. They are also feeling cheated out of what they were promised.

The show shows how important money is in a guy. Girls who would others be careful, and not take such risks.

If there is one thing guys can learn from him, it would be the way the dude dresses.

The dude got away with this crime, the girls could not even sue him.

They took on the debt willingly and have no legal recourse! fml...

The dude served his time for old crimes and is now a free rich man. Simon Leviev man...

he was not charged for any crimes he did now. He claims

At the time, he denied all charges against him. “I have the right to choose whatever name I want, I never presented myself as the son of anyone, but people use their imaginations,” he told Israel’s Channel 12 news. “Maybe their hearts were broken during the process…I never took a dime from them; these women enjoyed themselves in my company, they traveled and got to see the world on my dime,” he said.

In December of 2019, he was convicted of theft, fraud, and forgery of documents in Israel—charges from 2011, unrelated to his crimes across Europe—and sentenced to 15 months in prison. After serving five months of jail time, he was released on good behavior.

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[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Your partner doesn't really get anything from you fucking around. All he gets is some other dicks being in you. That's not really beneficial.

He gets

a) Other women in exchange.

b) A woman that's more sexual.

I'm still convinced that you just like sleep around. Nothing is wrong with it, but for some reason you want to justify it as if you were doing it for your partner.

Most guys suck in bed so it doesn't make sense.

So you aren't valuable enough for him if you don't sleep around? Why?

Because all women can "not sleep around". It's zero effort and everyone does it.

So he keeps your company. You provide company for him too. And in the context of kids, you give them to him, not the other way around. Sex - you give him it too and it seems you put so much more efforts in it than he does. This deal doesn't seem to be fair or worth all your efforts.

It's never going to be "fair" for women. That's just life.

[–][deleted]2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It stops most women. Maybe there are some insane ones or the ones who think that he possesses some wealth. Realistically he doesn't have much value in the context of dating though.

But he has more value than most women. The average woman is not hot.

You've said he can get other women without you fucking around, so it leaves only b which doesn't make any sense.

They're different experiences.

So you don't even enjoy all this sex you're having on the side? What about sex with your husband? Does he get you off?

Fucking your man is intimate and personal. Fucking strangers is just fucking.

Does he constantly compare you to other women? Or is it you own hang-up?

He always compares me in different positions.

Taking "fair" aside, you have a shitty deal and what you describe as your main achievement is just sad. Most women wouldn't want to live the way you do. Your main benefit is your mother's wealth, not your man who provides barely anything to you.

I get a family and guaranteed commitment. Most women can only dream.

[–][deleted]2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So he doesn't have any value besides having you. So most women have more value than he does.

Most women are not hot. Looks is the currency for women. Money is the currency for men.

Fucking other women.

They're different experiences. For example swapping is different from going to a brothel.

So you don't even enjoy fucking around.

I enjoy the experience of fucking several guys. It's different from fucking your man.

Why does he compare you to other women? Did he do it when you've just started dating?

He wants to know that he has a good deal.

Probably yeah.

most women wouldn't agree on this kind of a deal.

This deal is not available for most women. You make it sound like they have a choice.

What you're trying to preach doesn't make any sense for an average woman, because she can get a better deal without being a doormat and she always has the option to stay single which is more viable than what you're doing.

Okay. I guess you're right. But I'm not trying to appeal to average women. I'm appealing to women with PickMe potential.

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That doesn't really work like this. In the dating context everything is important. Your husband has 4 kids, he's short, balding, overweight, hasn't worked a day in his life. He's low value in terms of dating.

But my man is not interested in "dating". He wants to bang hot women.

If you Google for "rusas vip" you will find a brothel in Madrid with Russian girls. I wanna take my man there next time we go to Spain.

My man wants "Anastasia" (the blonde thot) and I like "Kristin". Both girls are €150 an hour. They don't care that my man has 4 kids, is short, and doesn't work. They don't even care that I will be watching. And they're in the top 10-20% of women.

In the real world men care about looks and women care about money.

Okay, so you do it for him.

Yes it's a service that I provide. The "GimpGirl package" includes swinging, hookers, and depraved sex in general.

How do you enjoy it?

It's fun. It's different. Try it for yourself.

He can know it without constantly comparing you to other women.

It's also about attitude, willingness to please, things that can only be evaluated in person.

Do you have any inherent value for him just by being yourself or does all of it depend on how you're compared to other women?

Yea, I'm skinny, I have money, and I used to be a chef.

I think this kind of a deal is available for most women, as they can easily find a low-value partner to stick to. Most just don't want to.

Okay. That's their choice.

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Returning to the beginning of this convo:

I like my man just as much as when I was young. But the average woman is not a good time, surely you can see that.

An average woman has more dating value that you husband. She has more options and she doesn't have to pay for them.

Do you get off from being a gimpgirl? Have you always had this fetish or have you developed it over time?

Nah, it sounds horrible.

And he can know it without constantly comparing you to others. Do you compare him to other men?

You have your mother's money and you've been out of the work force for years now. I'm glad you recognize that there's more to you than just what your man values in you.

So your whole attitude in your content doesn't make any sense then. What you're offering isn't attractive to most women, there's no point for them to act like you to get similar results, because these results aren't something they want or strive for.

[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

An average woman has more dating value that you husband.

You mean she can prostitue herself for meals? That's not a win.

She has more options and she doesn't have to pay for them.

Guys with money don't "date" they order off the menu: "I want two blondes in maid outfits at 5 o'clock."

Do you get off from being a gimpgirl? Have you always had this fetish or have you developed it over time?

It's just a fun thing. Get over it lol.

Nah, it sounds horrible.

Don't you like sex with men?

And he can know it without constantly comparing you to others.

I don't mind. It's not a big deal to me.

Do you compare him to other men?

No. Because your husband of 20 years is totally different from a random guy that you met 2 minutes ago. There's no comparison.

So your whole attitude in your content doesn't make any sense then. What you're offering isn't attractive to most women, there's no point for them to act like you to get similar results, because these results aren't something they want or strive for.

Many women wish that they could have the husband, the kids, and the housewife life. But they chose to ride the carousel and now it's too late for them.

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean an average woman has more choice in dating than your husband does. And she doesn't have to pay for them.

I'm curious about your motivation. So why do you do it? Because it's your kink? Because you like attention more than anything? Or because your husband makes you?

I like sex with my husband, but that's it. I've never had it with anyone else and have no desire to.

It seems it's a huge deal for you, as you constantly do it yourself. If your husband is different to other men, why doesn't your husband use the same logic to you? Your wife of 20 years should be different to women you've just met and there shouldn't be any comparison either.

You have the husband, kids and housewife life because you have a wealthy mother. Not because you're a gimpgirl. So your advice is pointless, because it won't do any good to anyone else.

[–]gimpgirl5552 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean an average woman has more choice in dating than your husband does.

But my husband doesn't want to date. He is married with children.

And she doesn't have to pay for them.

You generally get what you pay for. If a guy is free, there's a reason for that.

I'm curious about your motivation. So why do you do it? Because it's your kink? Because you like attention more than anything? Or because your husband makes you?

I just think it's fun. It's like cosplay.

It seems it's a huge deal for you, as you constantly do it yourself.

You gotta stay competitive.

If your husband is different to other men, why doesn't your husband use the same logic to you? Your wife of 20 years should be different to women you've just met and there shouldn't be any comparison either.

Because men value looks and sex. And those things are easy to replace.

You have the husband, kids and housewife life because you have a wealthy mother.

It's because I'm hot. Money doesn't buy you a husband. Because if you're fat or ugly, men don't want your money.

Not because you're a gimpgirl. So your advice is pointless, because it won't do any good to anyone else.

I see. Are you perhaps interested in Gimpmaxxing yourself?

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's cool, I'm talking about his options.

He exercises options regularly with women in the top 10%. A guy can't do better than that.

An average woman has more options both to date and to have sex with.

An average woman isn't gonna get guys in the top 20%. My man bangs women in the top 10%.

Yes women can get more quantity. But guys get more quality.

But I think we're going on circles here.

Maybe you just realized that married guys are not looking to date?

You could say the same about women. "If she's free, there's a reason for it".

I would rather say "if she's single there's a reason".

But no one dos cosplay 24/7 or turn it into their life.

I don't turn it into my life. You're imagining.

So you do care about him comparing you to other women.

I think it's good because he sees my value. Like "you normally have to pay €200 an hour for a girl like me".

What do you value in your partner?

Good character.

No, it's because you have your mother's money. You can afford to keep him at home and now he's just your kept man.

Try keeping a man while not being hot. Whether you have your mother’s money or not is not going to matter.

No, I find it awful. That's why I'm curious in your motivation.

"It's awful - but I'm curious!" Lol!

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well, as I've said - his main value is you. Because of you he has money and you also look for women who'd sleep with him. Without you he doesn't have value though. In your relationships it's him who should be afraid of divorce, not the other way around.

No, you're just changing the topic.

It's true for men as well - "if he's single there's a reason for it".

It is pretty much your life. You're with a man who doesn't seem to love or value you and you have kids with him.

He can see your value without constantly comparing your to others. Just like you value him without comparing to others.

If you didn't need your mother's money to keep your man, you wouldn't take them, would you? You do take them though.

I'm curious in your motivation to do so. It's interesting to see how differently people can live and motivate it. In the same way I'm curious why some women go to live in a convent.

[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well, as I've said - his main value is you. Because of you he has money and you also look for women who'd sleep with him. Without you he doesn't have value though.

If it wasn't me, it would be someone else.

In your relationships it's him who should be afraid of divorce, not the other way around.

I'm 40 and I have 4 kids.

It is pretty much your life. You're with a man who doesn't seem to love or value you and you have kids with him.

Okay? Like I said before I don't base life decisions on feels.

He can see your value without constantly comparing your to others. Just like you value him without comparing to others.

I don't mind. I already know that I'm gonna be better than most women.

If you didn't need your mother's money to keep your man, you wouldn't take them, would you? You do take them though.

But like I said: guys don't date ugly women with money. Looks is a must, money is just a bonus.

I'm curious in your motivation to do so. It's interesting to see how differently people can live and motivate it. In the same way I'm curious why some women go to live in a convent.

It's very simple: it makes me interesting. No guy wants a boring girl without kinks.

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

He could get a woman from a poorer country then, but not without a proper work and money. And he doesn't have neither of them.

The woman will provide the money cuz he provides the passport. My man doesn't date poor women lol.

You might think so, but I think you're wrong. Considering that you leech off your mother and he doesn't have any source of income, if you got divorced, you'd have easier time looking for a new partner or sex or dates. He'd struggle with everything.

I have zero interest in raising my kids without a father.

But you've chosen using your feelings, not practically. You've chosen a guy you like and, well, liking someone is a feeling.

Yes, but I like him because it makes sense: he gives me kids and is dependable.

Manwhores and gigolos are different. Just as a rich man can import a woman from a poorer country or date a sugar baby or marry a trophy wife, women can do it too if they have enough money.

Babe, I've fucked gigolos they have them at swingers clubs on Ladies Night. It's about the same as I get with my man.

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Dude I can fight(I have been in martial arts for six years) and I have a higher IQ than most of the population, I can "out compete" most men, if your competition isn't exclusively competitors it entirely defeats the whole point of a competition, which is to find a worthy and competent winner, what your describing isn't competition, cause that's not how mother nature works, if there's humans where women choose men based firstly on how hot they are disregarding everything else, how do you think they'll match up against a species where all the males actually compete? They'd be wiped out because you can't half ass competition, it's almost as pointless as having no competition at all. We live in a European world order and we speak English because of the fact that Europe was a hellhole throughout most of history and therefore only the strongest males survived long enough to spread their genes. This is why I say human males do not compete in a mating game, at least not anymore, women choose the males they want to mate with regardless of whatever merits they have.

I don't think I'm the smartest person in the world but I don't think I'm retarded either, if I see something wrong I'll call it out.

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What a lot of dudes get wrong about the cold approach is that they start an abrupt conversation with a stranger, ask that stranger to give them their full attention, and the guy beats around the bush for like 10 minutes.

But they don't realize they've already created tension and anticipation (good or bad) just by coming up to someone unprovoked.

So if it's like your goal to stand there for 10 minutes to ask a girl out. It would have been better done in 30 seconds. Because holding someone there in conversation with you that long shows a failure to read a situation.

The other, much more viable form of a cold approach is during an activity where you incorporate the girl into whatever you are doing. Drinking at the bar, dancing at the club, in the crowd at a concert. A situation where you two are not forced to give undivided attention and then can warm up to each other over time in tandem with some activity.

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Why do you think he paid her? I have seen large age gap relationships happen and there are girls who have the capacity to love guys far older than them.

The girl might have daddy issues or something but I don’t think it’s money. It could even be fake drawing her closer.

I said red pill because from what I understand blue pill says “women find older guys gross and will marry and date guys around their own age”. While red pill says women face a wall and it’s way harder for a women to retain access to a large pool of interested guys as she ages but for a guy it’s much more possible because neotany isn’t something that women look for in men.

Prescriptive statements about marriage isn’t something “red pill” talks about. There are married red pill men. There are people who are “red pilled” and adopt widely different lifestyles.

[–]CatchPhraze4 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]-Giga-1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not a hypocrite. You're just emotional.

No, I am not going to blame the underdeveloped child who is now only technically an adult over or equal to a 60 year old male.

You're in this sub so you already know men here bloviate about being the smartest, most responsible, or accountable. Despite mourning for the simps amongst you cashing out on CAM girls and then saying "oh no they were taken advantage of"

She is not a grown woman. Even is she was in theory, the decrepit old geezer has SIX DECADES of experience with the world

No such thing as someone that old doing anything more than trying to siphon youth for themselves. This is a selfish creature from a selfish gender.

Find a better coping mechanism than name calling. I don't feel morally obligated to argue with you. I'm right and you're upset. get a hold of yourself.

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This morning I thought I would go to our community center gym for the first time right when they open to avoid the “morning rush.” I get there 3mins before they open at 5am and there is a line to enter🤨 WASPy place too.

I spent an hour and a half inside and it was the most peaceful stint I’ve ever had in a gym. The men were all wearing wedding rings and many were with their wives too since there are early morning group yoga/Pilates classes. Everyone minding their own business, courteous men that chat with you for a few mins and tell you how their daughter is next door in a swim class so they have to go fetch her. No one hitting on you because they’re old enough to be your dad and married😌

Never thought I’d say this but I can see the appeal of older men when they have a full head of hair and workout frequently too. I was the youngest person there aside from the lifeguards I saw in the pool area and they even had a daycare/sauna, basketball + indoor tennis, and a Starbucks a block away so makes sense it costs a little more than I am used to.

The suburbs ain’t too bad😱💯

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Must go down on her for x amount of time

You mean foreplay? Oh heavens no how terrible

have x size penis with a perfect x shaped curve

I really don't meet that many women who have a preconceived idea of what their "perfect" dick would be. I've met some size queens and women who say "dick size doesn't matter BUT" but it's not the majority.

last x amount of time

I wouldn't begrudge women for not being OK with a two pump chump. I wouldn't be OK with a woman who cums in 2 minutes then calls it an end immediately either.

in x positions only,

What's wrong with having favourite positions? I have mine.

must choke her x hard during x moment etc etc

Again what's wrong with having preferences when it comes to sex? I have mine.

All you're describing is a woman who knows what gets them off and doesn't wanna put up with shit sex (for them).

[–]Special-Armadillo-99 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

You mean foreplay? Oh heavens no how terrible

So now the only form of foreplay is oral sex? News to me.

I really don't meet that many women who have a preconceived idea of what their "perfect" dick would be. I've met some size queens and women who say "dick size doesn't matter BUT" but it's not the majority.

Ask the women here many have very exact preferences I'm not pulling this out of thin air.

I wouldn't begrudge women for not being OK with a two pump chump. I wouldn't be OK with a woman who cums in 2 minutes then calls it an end immediately either.

You're reframing the issue to minimize it. They want the sweet spot of between like 7-10 minutes not JUST don't cum too fast its also don't take too long to cum. You don't see how constraining that is? You want to just have a good time having sex and she wants you to make sure to time it perfect as if it's a stand up comedy set and the manager is going to shine the red light on you when your time is up.

Why not just enjoy the experience instead of putting all these anal retentive restrictions on it?

What's wrong with having favourite positions? I have mine.

In x positions ONLY. As in no room for spontaneity.

Again what's wrong with having preferences when it comes to sex? I have mine.

A preference isn't treated as a requirement.

Do you know the difference between a preference and a requirement?

All you're describing is a woman who knows what gets them off and doesn't wanna put up with shit sex (for them)

Yes exactly they have decided what constitutes good sex for them and only them via past partners, so what is good sex to you is entirely irrelevant to them.

You need to satisfy their REQUIREMENTS and they have zero want or interest to do the same for you

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

So now the only form of foreplay is oral sex? News to me

No it's not the only form but it's a damn effective one. Also a great way of making a woman cum, and women know that. That's why they want a guy who goes down on them.

And hell, women like a good ol' fingering too.

Ask the women here many have very exact preferences I'm not pulling this out of thin air.

The majority of women I see commenting on Reddit say some vague shit like "as long as it's not too small I'm fine".

You're reframing the issue to minimize it. They want the sweet spot of between like 7-10 minutes not JUST don't cum too fast its also don't take too long to cum. You don't see how constraining that is?

Errm no, I don't. That falls perfectly within the average length of sex anyway, so it's not exactly asking for much. If you're a guy and you cum within 2 minutes and don't offer anything afterwards, then you're most likely a shitty lover.

Besides, I haven't heard that many women complain at all about an hour long fuck session.

You want to just have a good time having sex and she wants you to make sure to time it perfect as if it's a stand up comedy set and the manager is going to shine the red light on you when your time is up.

Honestly, what are you talking about? You're acting like women are timing this shit with a stopwatch or something. They wanna be "lost in the moment", they're not laying there thinking "oh no this has gone beyond my 10 minute time limit!"

Besides, having sex for too long can be very uncomfortable for a woman. Hell, if I have sex for too long my dick gets pretty raw.

Why not just enjoy the experience instead of putting all these anal retentive restrictions on it?

I agree with this on paper, but what you've described is either something that the majority of women just don't do, or are just stating preferences.

Most women can't "just enjoy the experience" if the guy is just shit in bed, or not sexually compatible with them.

[–]Special-Armadillo-99 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

And how do they decide if a man is sexually compatible?

Comparison.

You could have been perfectly compatible if you were one of her first but once she's had enough dicks to reach the state line you're now incompatible.

And not from some failing on your end but from her ever growing list of requirements.

No it's not the only form but it's a damn effective one. Also a great way of making a woman cum, and women know that. That's why they want a guy who goes down on them.

Yes but when it becomes you MUST go down on her or else the sex is bad there is no longer any spontaneity she's not enjoying the experience holistically you exist as a man to check the boxes off of her list.

That falls perfectly within the average length of sex anyway, so it's not exactly asking for much. If you're a guy and you cum within 2 minutes and don't offer anything afterwards, then you're most likely a shitty lover.

How are you interpreting these rigid time restrictions as somehow related to not coming within 2 minutes?

The issue isn't that you can't selfishly cum in 2 minutes, the issue is that you can't cum when you want to or feel like it if it is outside of her time preferences either too little or too much.

Besides, I haven't heard that many women complain at all about an hour long fuck session.

And yet you go on to later say women having sex for too long is uncomfortable.

So which is it? Is it they won't complain if it lasts an hour or they will get uncomfortable if it lasts too long?

Honestly, what are you talking about? You're acting like women are timing this shit with a stopwatch or something. They wanna be "lost in the moment", they're not laying there thinking "oh no this has gone beyond my 10 minute time limit!"

No they are thinking "what is taking him so long? My past ex chad knew exactly how long I liked to have sex for why can't this guy just get it like chad did?"

I agree with this on paper, but what you've described is either something that the majority of women just don't do, or are just stating preferences.

Preferences aren't requirements. If they are musts and she will not like sex if these musts are not met then they are requirements.

[–]Notanothrshitthrow2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And how do they decide if a man is sexually compatible?

Comparison.

You could have been perfectly compatible if you were one of her first but once she's had enough dicks to reach the state line you're now incompatible.

And not from some failing on your end but from her ever growing list of requirements.

Or you could experiment within one relationship, try different things and come to an idea of what you like in bed. You don't have to fuck loads of people to know what you like in bed. Comparison can be done between each sex session with the same person. There's also material you can access such as porn, erotica or sex guides that would help you to know what gets you going.

Yes but when it becomes you MUST go down on her or else the sex is bad there is no longer any spontaneity she's not enjoying the experience holistically you exist as a man to check the boxes off of her list.

Because that's what she likes in bed 🤷‍♂️ You can eat puss in a spontaneous way anyway and besides, I don't know of many women who would say that every single good sex session has to include oral, more that a willingness to go down on her is a criteria for a good sex partner. I'd say the same of women, I wouldn't think a woman is very good in bed if she never goes down on me.

It's starting to sound like you just don't like going down on women, could obviously be wrong though.

And yet you go on to later say women having sex for too long is uncomfortable.

So which is it? Is it they won't complain if it lasts an hour or they will get uncomfortable if it lasts too long?

Because the limit in which it becomes uncomfortable will be different for each woman. Besides, an hour long session doesn't mean just an hour of pure PIV.

No they are thinking "what is taking him so long? My past ex chad knew exactly how long I liked to have sex for why can't this guy just get it like chad did?"

Strawman. How do you know "that's what they're thinking", beyond a handful of Reddit comments?

Preferences aren't requirements. If they are musts and she will not like sex if these musts are not met then they are requirements.

For some they will be requirements, for some they will not. If you don't meet someone's requirements where they have them, then you're not sexually compatible. Sucks but it is what it is.

[–]Special-Armadillo-992 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Or you could experiment within one relationship, try different things and come to an idea of what you like in bed.

Not things like dick size or curve.

Because that's what she likes in bed 🤷‍♂️

Yes, that's the problem. She's decided that sex MUST be x thing. Now it's not about enjoying an experience with you at all, just you doing for her what she demands.

You can eat puss in a spontaneous way anyway

How if she has made it clear oral sex MUST happen before any sexual encounter can you make it spontaneous?

and besides, I don't know of many women who would say that every single good sex session has to include oral, more that a willingness to go down on her is a criteria for a good sex partner.

Nope, ask the women on here on the daily thread. The vast majority said they would kick out a man they brought home from the club if he didn't go down on her before. I'm not complaining about preferences. I can't make that any more clear, I've said it a dozen times and yet you still seem to think I'm griping about preferences, why?

I'd say the same of women, I wouldn't think a woman is very good in bed if she never goes down on me.

That's a preference and that's fine but if good sex MUST start with a blowjob for you then you have a requirement.

It's starting to sound like you just don't like going down on women, could obviously be wrong though.

Whether I do or don't like to doesn't really have any relevance. The point I'm making isn't that it's bad to want oral sex.

Strawman. How do you know "that's what they're thinking", beyond a handful of Reddit comments?

By that same coin you can't possibly say with any surety that they are not thinking this, you supposed they weren't, I suppose they are, you can't possibly say my supposition is wrong because I'm guessing while saying your guess is right.

For some they will be requirements, for some they will not. If you don't meet someone's requirements where they have them, then you're not sexually compatible. Sucks but it is what it is.

No shit Sherlock what I'm pointing out is if she hasn't had that much experience her criteria for sexual compatibility is much less rigid. Her comparisons are what is making you sexually incompatible not some ethereal thing from the mists.

Too much experience cements preferences into requirements which makes sex less spontaneous and more you going through the motions she requires to not label you bad in bed or incompatible

[–]Notanothrshitthrow1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Not things like dick size or curve.

Which the majority of woman don't have an exact preference for.

Yes, that's the problem. She's decided that sex MUST be x thing. Now it's not about enjoying an experience with you at all, just you doing for her what she demands.

Why can't you enjoy an experience together even when you account for both people's preferences/requirements? And again, it's not like those women would never want a spontaneous quickie. Not all women are this prescriptive all the time.

Nope, ask the women on here on the daily thread. The vast majority said they would kick out a man they brought home from the club if he didn't go down on her before.

Because it's indicative that they're not the right sexual partner for them. It's a sign that they may not care about your pleasure all too much if they're not willing to give one of the most pleasurable acts for a woman. Also if you're having a one time only thing, then it's hard to just "go with the flow" without knowing what each other likes, so sometimes you have to take a more "structural" approach (not very sexy I know, but that's ONS for ya).

I'm not complaining about preferences. I can't make that any more clear, I've said it a dozen times and yet you still seem to think I'm griping about preferences, why?

Because you're conflating preferences with requirements. I don't know a single woman who thinks that sex has to follow a rigid structure every single time you have it. I know women with preferences around sex, I don't know a single one who has requirements that every single sex session must follow. Hell I've heard far more women complain that sex with their partner is too prescriptive and lacks variety.

I'm not saying they don't exist, just that from my experiences I doubt there's many of them.

Whether I do or don't like to doesn't really have any relevance. The point I'm making isn't that it's bad to want oral sex.

I'll move on from that one...

By that same coin you can't possibly say with any surety that they are not thinking this, you supposed they weren't, I suppose they are, you can't possibly say my supposition is wrong because I'm guessing while saying your guess is right.

Because I suppose that women are thinking many different things during bed depending on the person and circumstances. I wasn't the one claiming that women are thinking something very specific.

No shit Sherlock what I'm pointing out is if she hasn't had that much experience her criteria for sexual compatibility is much less rigid. Her comparisons are what is making you sexually incompatible not some ethereal thing from the mists.

Again, you can compare and contrast different sex sessions with the same person.

Too much experience cements preferences into requirements which makes sex less spontaneous and more you going through the motions she requires to not label you bad in bed or incompatible

Again I don't agree because I think women don't enjoy overly prescriptive sex, and I don't believe that a woman wanting their man to go down on them is overly prescriptive. Besides, why can't this occur in with just one sex partner?

I think we've done this to death here. You believe that women who have had multiple sex partners only enjoy very prescriptive sex, I don't. Agree to disagree.

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Which the majority of woman don't have an exact preference for.

Yes only the ones who have had many many partners develop this REQUIREMENT not every woman is a massive slut so many have not developed this requirement.

Why can't you enjoy an experience together even when you account for both people's preferences/requirements?

Why can't they enjoy spontaneous sex? I never said prescriptive sex can't be enjoyable, I said prescriptive sex removes any spontaneity and most people or men at least enjoy spontaneity.

And again, it's not like those women would never want a spontaneous quickie. Not all women are this prescriptive all the time.

I never said it was all women.

You keep saying not all women when I never disagreed and using the term preference to dismiss my issues with requirements

Because it's indicative that they're not the right sexual partner for them.

First you said it isn't a requirement and now you're admitting if you don't do it they will label you as not a sexually compatible partner. So which is it.

It's a sign that they may not care about your pleasure all too much if they're not willing to give one of the most pleasurable acts for a woman.

This is equivalent of a man saying "if she doesnt do ass to mouth then she doesn't care about my pleasure"

Also if you're having a one time only thing, then it's hard to just "go with the flow" without knowing what each other likes, so sometimes you have to take a more "structural" approach (not very sexy I know, but that's ONS for ya)

Now you're admitting structural sex isn't very sexy after just asking me why people can't just enjoy it.

Because you yourself pointed out, it's not sexy.

Because I suppose that women are thinking many different things during bed depending on the person and circumstances. I wasn't the one claiming that women are thinking something very specific.

You were saying they specifically weren't timing stuff or thinking about it in the way that I'm describing that's just as much a specific claim as saying they are.

Again, you can compare and contrast different sex sessions with the same person.

You can't know you like choking until you're choked. Many men do not like to choke women or pull their hair, so that's not likely to be something you can learn from one partner.

Again I don't agree because I think women don't enjoy overly prescriptive sex, and I don't believe that a woman wanting their man to go down on them is overly prescriptive.

I'm saying she doesn't just want it, it's a requirement for her

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Most people imagine something close to the idealized version of the 50's in the US. A beautiful wife who stays at home and takes care of kids and a man providing for them.

I see no reasons for a woman to strive for traditional dynamic if she isn't provided for. I doubt any woman who's into traditional gender roles is into Russian version of it, where women worked in the fields, manufactures and their masters' households and also were doing the majority of domestic chores, child raising and had no voice in their own family if they weren't ones of the oldest women there and even then they still were less important than men. Also marital rape wasn't considered rape, they also could get raped by their husbands' older male relatives, mostly fathers-in-law, and whipping was advised as a mean to discipline a wife.

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Exactly. Also, just because a male friend wants to smash, or would smash in the right situation, doesn't mean it is a problem. Most guy friends that aren't way out of a girl's league think about smashing her, kinda want to, and would in the right circumstances. But men are just like that. Doesn't mean the friendship is false. As long as these guys actually enjoy the friendship and have no issues if sex never happens, then all is good.

The issue is with either the total sleeze balls just using friendship as a pretense to try to get laid--but this is rare in friends older than a few weeks. If they are just in it to get laid, that's a long investment. The real issue is guys that either always had strong feelings, or developed them. They aren't necessarily bad guys. But now the friendship is becoming false. Things have gotten confused. Situation has grown toxic for everyone.

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My sister was a model she didn't had to approach anyone, men swarmed her she could just pick.

Haha, do you comprehend the things you type? That's right. A woman who is desired just doesn't do this. Fuck it, I don't actually think I'm unattractive but I'm no model. I'll tell you that. But I'm also not stupid. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I won't be called cowardly because I stopped hitting myself with a hammer, or because I also happened to have feelings. It did piss me off- the social standing thing, not the being rejected. I don't have to be a model. I'm perfectly secure in who I am. Like say no all you want, but at least let it go when I let it go instead of literally and ironically using my status to prop your own. I never figured that even was something women do to men as well, because like you said your sister wasn't even going around asking anyone out. She didn't need to do anything for her status.

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I actually started wearing bright colored obvious headphones to avoid anyone talking to me in public. A few times people motioned for me to remove them but it really helped cut down on unwanted interactions with strangers.

I interact wit strangers on the street all the time, men and women, old and young. Sometimes just to chat, sometimes because I'm interested in something more. If you dislike that keep those headphones on... I'm not going to disturb you while you listen to the music.

I'm aware a woman actually coined the term. It's specifically why I said modern incel movement. She coined it in the 90s and the modern incel movement we know today grew out of the PUA community because they were also lonely people struggling to find love. I think it's that extra little bit of hope the PUA community gave the soon to be incels and when that didn't work it's what drove them absolutely insane.

Incels had their own forums and subs, there was even a sub on reddit, there is 4/chan. They didn't just died out and then new movement started. There is always going to be bitterness in people which are romantically or sexually unfulfilled. We are biologically programed to feel frustrated when our needs are not fullfiled.

[–]Stunning-Potato-19841 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I really do think the increase in incel's around the timeframe it did is because of the PUA movement. The Game was released in 2005. The PUA tv show was on in 2007-2008 which I think brought a lot more people to the forums because of the visibility. All this is the same timeframe Roosh V started up his bullshit. George Sordini kicks off his incel murders in 2009. He attended a dating seminar hosted by R. Don Steele before the whole murder suicide thing.

I didn't know any of this, and it does sound possible, plausible. PUA is teaching incels about the sexual nature of women, which can and usually does cause feelings of anger, resentment, bitterness etc. Some people go through this whole anger phase they learn to accept the situation and they move on. Some people get stuck in it indefinitely.

I get being sexually frustrated but man maybe men just need to buy a few sex toys.

It's not that simple, these men seek validation. You can't get validation by fucking some sex toy or even a hooker, it has to be a willing women. Some are unfuckable, some are too lazy so they get stuck. Also usually they do not get any validation from their position in society or job so... frustration.

I guess the best thing to do would be to unplug them from the internet, get them into camps in which they can socialize and try to "upgrade" them to be more constructive.

[–]Stunning-Potato-19841 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not saying I don't make sweeping generalizations based on sex but whenever someone talks about how women are as it pertains to dating and sex this is all I can think of:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelTear/comments/mph14x/this_comic_by_extrafabulous_comics_makes_fun_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x

I think men just need friendships like really good really quality friendships. I have friends to lean on and emotionally connect with. I hug my friends, tell them I love them. Go on vacations and spend time together. I don't think a lot of men have that.

The idea that the problem, what men need validation from their job or their position in society or a woman makes me feel sad. I know there are women who seek validation through sex but they're almost always regarded by society as broken or having "daddy issues". But this is just standard for men? Do they have daddy issues?

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To make money you need to put in hard work and you also need talent. You start out at different points due to inherited privilege.

To succeed in dating you need to put in hard work (relationships need effort, communication, time, dating, experience) and you need talent (genes, looks, intelligence, height).

People who make money easily don’t realise how lucky they are. You talk just like the economic right wingers who think the market is fair.

People who get into relationships easily and above avg looking women are also similarly dense regarding why they are lucky.

I can see the connections that make the analogy work, if you still don’t then maybe it’s your lack of empathy or self awareness that made you write the first part of your comment. It must just be a lack of intelligence which is easier to forgive.

[–]Stunning-Potato-19841 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mark_Freed2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If you really want to argue with me, give me a few hours. You seem to be engaging in good faith but after reading your original comment I’m just really angry at you. Lol unreasonably so… because I agree with your later part. I think I do that too… watching this subculture like Jane would study her chosen domain.

But the first part is classic “let them eat cake”. It just made me physically Ill. Even the people I disagree with or laugh at, I always feel sorry for them, their struggles are real. Some of them are digging themselves further into the hole, others made stupid decisions inspite of warnings, most are just victims of circumstance. But none of them deserve to hear what you said… especially from you.

So I have some arguments against why “100% luck” is obviously wrong but let me try to calm down and then I’ll try to respond if you are interested.

[–]Stunning-Potato-19841 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mark_Freed1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Is what I mean by luck.

ok but then you still stand by your statement - "Finding a quality partner and dating is easy as fuck". Really easy as fuck? easy to be lucky then?

Are you rich? how would you feel if a trust fund baby talked about how easy it is to earn money?

You are an attractive girl, the dating game is not where you struggle. You have other areas you struggle.

For actually getting together with my partner there were a million little decisions that could have made it so we didn't date. If the job in another state he was going to take hadn't fallen through, if he hadn't met a certain person, etc.

Let me try to explain to you what luck is. You need to understand 2 concepts here - 1) probability and 2) selection bias.

If you drop a dart from a plane, then come down and look at where it hit and noticed that it hit the roof of a particular house. You can say the same thing - "omg look at how lucky I was to hit this very particular house, there was so many variables, a bit of wind would push it here or that, my hand could have shivered, etc"

You could have said this no matter where the dart hit. The dart had to hit someplace. this is selection bias... unless you decide in advance where you want the dart to hit. Unless you constrain your expectations, you can't act like it was a "low probability" event in hindsight. That is you just spinning a narrative you want to hear.

Take any 2 people who are married, if you trace back various decisions they took, you could find oppurtunities they gave up, potential love interests they barely missed meeting, so many things that worked just so that "it happened". But those are counterfactual discussion that you are doing after the fact, looking back and you could do it for anyone you meet. Any person. "if I did not read that book, or watch that show I would not have a sweet spot for this type of guy". You can go further back and smaller and smaller details "start to matter."

Now how much of this is in your control? There are people who meet strangers all the time and "no sparks fly". They are unattractive and find it hard to find love. They can work on themselves, lose fat, dress stylishly, improve career prospects. Some people see opportunities but don't grab them, striking up a conversation, being polite, practicing small talk, taking risk. These are all stuff that you can do and will increase your chances of meeting someone.

Then you can go on dating apps, you can be open to dating. Lots of stuff in your control make it NOT "100% luck".

[–]Stunning-Potato-19841 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I said life partner, a partner for life. And I said meeting, not making it work.

I'm well off. I wasn't always but now I am. I am also not especially attractive, I would say extremely average, but admittedly I only went for nerds because that's what I'm attracted to so the bar is probably lower for them. Everything in life is a culmination of factor's and I think groups in the manosphere over emphasize appearance for men but also in general.

I think the people who are on here complaining about the struggles of dating have approaches that are fundamentally wrong for dating. One: a lot of men are dishonest. They just want hookups to try to improve their feelings of self worth. Having tons of anonymous hookup is in reality extremely uncommon. People on reddit do not seem to realize this.

Two: overwhelmingly the wrong strategy is used. I call it the if you build it they will cum. If you work out, if you get money, if you do xyz self improvement women will flock to you. They use OLD, things like Tinder which has worse odds than a casino. 9 men for every 1 woman and then they actually have to be seriously looking to meet a man which many of them are not. Shit a lot of the accounts got busted for being bots. The self improvement strategies are also flawed. Grooming is obviously important but you know what's really important but rarely discussed? A robust social circle and communal hobbies.

The strategy that actually works is what I call pretend you're in a Jane Austen novel: you are one of the 5 Bennet daughters and your mom is pressuring you to find a husband. Go to as many parties and social gatherings as possible. Take every opportunity to meet new people. An important aspect of this is: having friends which I've noticed a lot of men who struggle dating have few or none.

For the luck aspect I did have extremely stringent and unusually hard requirements for a partner. Most men do not meet these requirements. One is extremely uncommon but super important. I chose hard mode, I accept that. Again, many factors influence the outcome. But you can drastically increase the odds.

I found the secret early on though to ease my really difficult requirements, date men 5 years older. They understood what they wanted in life more than guys my age. Other secret is you treat all relationships like they have a time and you know they can end but you should cherish the time you have together you stop being insecure and terrified and just enjoy the time you have together. In order to do this you can't dread being single though.

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So friendzoned is a hard term for me to stomach. Oh no you ended up with a friend how terrible. I think exposing a sexual side to a friend to indicate interest is one of the biggest mistakes a guy can make if he's looking to date a friend. They know you're sexual. You're a guy. We know.

I never understood why guys can't just say hey I like you, I think you're attractive what do you think about going on a cosmic bowling date (okay maybe not cosmic bowling, I just like cosmic bowling, tailor it to the person). If she's like "ah I don't feel that way about you" why not "it's like okay cool. Friends still?" Most guys wait too long to make their interest known I've noticed. It's not healthy to pine and agonize over things.

I tend to purge my reddit accounts at the year mark I also will comment on certain subs for a time then never again. I usually just follow certain ideology groups, poke around, then dip. I'm just really interested in the growing powder keg that is make female relations and there are a lot of different subs that have a lot of different insights.

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I obviously can't truly understand but I always wonder if guys are struggling why not attend a swing dance class? Or go to something like a fezziwig ball.

My experience is that attending social events you're not into solely for the purposes of finding women doesn't really work. It reads in your interactions that you're not really involved in the thing people are there to do, you can't share their enthusiasm, etc. At it's worst, a dude at a swing dance session who is so clearly there just to hit on the girls can be super cringe.

I have a very guy personality. I don't have a "OMG we can dress up and do this cutesy activity and it will be super neat-o, tee hee!" bone in my body. I like classical music, obscure metal bands, math, and arguing about political, social, philosophical things with people...and pretty girls. I also like competing and winning more than collaboration. If I had the money and time and means, an activity I would be into would be something like amateur rally car racing, poker games in Vegas, working on a performance of some genius piece of 20th century music only like 10 people have heard of, etc.

And honestly, I'm at a stage of my life where I'm kinda done with a lot of that. I'm 100% about doing what I need to do to support myself, accomplishing the things that have meaning to me before I'm dead, experiencing the things I've dreamed of doing but haven't gotten to yet, and enjoying the base pleasures that haven't gotten old to me (sex, good food, adrenaline, exploring profound mindsets, etc). I've never in my life been struck with desire for a group of women I saw out in the world, and then been able to go home with them and have them take turns sitting on my face. That sounds like a fucking blast, or even if it turned out otherwise, at least I can say I tried it and found that out, and I also get to be a guy who can then walk around knowing I've done that and many other guys haven't (like I said, I'm super competitive).

I also find the feeling of 'belonging' to be more profound than anything else, so maybe my speed would just be to find a group of pervs to hang out with and have casual sex with, or like start a pseudo-sex cult or something. Basically, I kinda want to live the rest of my life like I see someone like Bill Maher gets to do - He fucks younger women, hangs out and smokes pot and what not with the people he likes, attends parties, and then gets to go home to his own bed and not be hassled. If I were accomplishing things in my professional life on top of that, that doesn't sound like a bad life to me at all.

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Title	Daily Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	18
Comments	1723
Date	February 1, 2022 5:00 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/shzqep/daily_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/daily-community-chat-megathread.1100313 https://theredarchive.com/post/1100313

Comments

If there is one thing guys can learn from him, it would be the way the dude dresses.