New article: 50% of single US adults are not looking for relationships or casual dates

TheFinalDefender · 2022-05-30T11:23:02+00:00

Link: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/nearly-half-of-u-s-adults-say-dating-has-gotten-harder-for-most-people-in-the-last-10-years/ Some...

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They don't view it as cheating. A lot of them embrace it, it's like a special club for them. Sex/social dominance gives them a sense of power and meaning to their otherwise bland lives

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It's jsut because most man become not rich, for rich man 50 year difference is even sometimes happen, surely not often but if 50 happens then 20-25 is normal.

Also it's a self sorting thing, not that many (at least a huge minority, which is more than enough) women would not be willing to date 15-20 years older, it's more that the atractive guys that either have money or game or both are taken with let's say 35 if not earlier and the rest has no game and no money, sure a 40-55 year old with no (or not much) money and no game will not pick up a 25-30 year old.

But many of the man that are engaged in their 40s would be very attractive to single 27 year olds. Why do you think man with rings are so attractive? They tend to be not 20 year olds.

Also this often comes down to ltr, the maybe divorced 45 year old grey fox probably don't want marriage so they sleep with them if they have something going for them, but it just not gives them the commitment and they move on.

For man having sex 1 or a few time is basically the point, the rest is optional can be a bonus or negative case by case.

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I would disagree they search for father qualities, teachers, leaders, strong work ethic, etc, there is a reason why women often call their lovers "daddy" in the bed room, yes you can say the bedroom is 100% seperate word, but I disagree, there is huge overlap, it's just more honest, people are less PC in the bed room at least ideally.

Women hate a man they feel they are put in the mother role, what often happens, most women categorically can't stand a man beeing even 1 year younger not to mention multiple.

So if they have the choice and for ltr often there are not many good choices for women especially if they don't marry with 18-24, they rather have a father figure than a child figure.

Even the much higher % of women that have actually 20 year older man, compared to the other way around that nearly never happen for every men that is together (especially long term) with a 20 year older women there are probably 100 the other way around.

For most man that is a absolute no go, for women not, that is the difference.

When women speak about love towards man it comes down mostly to respect, of course a 27 year old women can respect a good 47 year old man.

Women are less visual but more about smells and hearing, even sex is to some extend less important (they are willing to mix in masturbation and it's more about validation and the sex happens a lot in their brain, dirty talk etc... slapping, not about how the skin or hair of the man looks.

Now the biggest problem for this age gaps for women are probably judgement from other people, because of their agreeableness... but otherwise age itself is a very small factor for women.

[–]HumanNumber3481 points 4 years ago [recovered] (111 children) | Copy Link

I don't think anyone denies that women generally prefer men a couple years older. But it's young male loser cope to think that normal 20 year olds are dating 45 year olds.

[–]no-304s1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (80 children) | Copy Link

Women regularly date guys more than a decade older. The denial of this is from old females.

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Or they don’t want a 40 year old dating their daughter in high school lol

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It doesn’t really matter In my experience people who are only held back by “the law” will find a way to get with much younger children

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My point is, many men are tall AND wealthy AND single. Especially because some of those traits are correlated. The calculator doesn't account for that.

Ex - let's say you have a population of 1000 men. 100 (10%) are tall, 100 are wealthy, and 100 are 35-45. The calculator would take those numbers and go 1/10 x 1/10 x 1/10 = only 1 man in the 1000 is tall, wealthy, and 35-45. But that makes no sense at all because you can't just multiply the probabilities linearly like that if variables are related. For example, wealthy people are more likely to be tall and in the peak of their career...meaning the 100/1000 men for each category are quite likely to be all be the same 100 men! Therefore it could very well be the case that 1/10, or maybe 1/20 men in the population have all 3 traits, NOT 1/1000.

This is why you won't see any regression equations (besides the raw population data sources) on the site - because a high school statistics student could see why the methodology is flawed.

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They'll never admit its a problem no matter how bad it gets because they'd have to admit some degree of culpability in it.

Women have an incredibly strong instinct to preserve their social status by whatever means necessary, including never admitting blame. Makes sense considering their survival has been intrinsically linked to remaining in the good graces of whatever "group" they're a part of for tens of thousands of years.

It's literally a survival instinct (albeit a mostly vestigial one at this point) for them to prioritize controlling the way a fact makes them look over acknowledging the fact itself.

You can see it manifest itself in PPD all the time with, for example, the way they try to straight up deny that hypergamy is real because they perceive it to be a negative judgment being made against them.

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And the crazy thing is it's hard for me to believe that so many men are just that unattractive or weird because if that was the case then nobody would have any positive interaction

For every Behavior a man may do, if it's creepy to one woman then there's a good chance another woman will find it the opposite and may be attracted to it

That was one of the biggest things that helped me out of a depression in high school

Yes some people will not like you for whatever reason but think about all the people who did accept you and likes you

I'll admit looking back in the past there were some girls that were into me but I just did not notice at the time

And we have to remember that young girls are just as weird and awkward and shy

But they can get away with it

But more so to the fact that girls are already not going to approach most men even if they are confident. So imagine how many shy girls probably don't approach men they like

I think a lot of brainwashing and delusion has happened on both sides

Combine that with Rising prices and the cost of living

It's kind of hard to show off and try to be attractive as a man when you can't afford a car or house even with a good job or with two

And even then most people live paycheck to paycheck anyway which should be realistic but I bet you a lot of women that would unattractive

We live in modern times but a lot of our instincts have not caught up with us

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it's hard for me to believe that so many men are just that unattractive or weird because if that was the case then nobody would have any positive interaction

First of all, being "weird" has nothing to do with who women want to fuck. Weird men who are hot easily get sex. Normal men who aren't hot don't easily get sex. Hotness is what makes a man get sex, and not much else matters beyond that.

For every Behavior a man may do, if it's creepy to one woman then there's a good chance another woman will find it the opposite and may be attracted to it

That is not how women work at all. Women are extremely similar to one another, especially when it comes to what they're attracted to.

It's kind of hard to show off and try to be attractive as a man when you can't afford a car or house even with a good job or with two. And even then most people live paycheck to paycheck anyway which should be realistic but I bet you a lot of women that would unattractive

That's not being attractive, that's called being a wallet.

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It speaks to the dynamics of online dating that I've always suspected.

This is overly simplified, but

The limiting factor in online dating is how many women men are willing to juggle at once, and if you assume men always want sex and just throw a number to it, 3, you only need 33% of the men on dating apps to service all of the women (assuming equal gender ratio). And, again, if those men are always seeing 3 women, and the women are 'in and out' of relationships, in for half, out for half, then you half the amount of men needed and get down to ~16%

The numbers aren't accurate, but I think they're closeish and to me undoubtedly this is the dynamic.

To the OP topic, this leaves a lot of room for the women to convince themselves they're 'in a relationship', but I don't think they're being 'cheated on' just that they're delusional and willing to sacrifice rationality to seek out the most sexually attractive partner.

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Dude… preach. I’m living off 55K in California and literally feel unworthy of dating, unfit to be a partner on that basis alone. I seriously bust my ass at work hoping it opens new opportunities, but hard work in and of itself does not equate to greater income. That feeling of inadequacy absolutely crushes me on a daily basis and… it’s more than just a feeling, it’s reality. I cannot simply think or feel my way out of it. This is my situation. I do not envy our resent women for this disparity in expectations… at the end of the day, someone has to put bread on the table and as a man that is undeniably the most functional and virtuous sacrifice I can make to bring value to the relationship. Some day, my future partner will take a gamble by choosing to be with me and I want her to win the biggest fucking jackpot possible.

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Is this a bad thing?

Yes. It's mostly due to alienation, social malformation, and the effects of media/technology.

People aren’t forced into relationships they don’t want anymore and they can leave bad relationships easier.

No one here whos living in the first world has ever been forced into relationships they don't want nor were their parents.

Whist its shame so many people are struggling to find the right person fir them isn’t it better that people would rather wait than stay in an unhappy marriage? Also, as a species, we’re overpopulated, a few years of low births aren’t going to do any harm long run

The West has been sub replacement level for longer than most people on this forum have been alive. Birth rates are crashing harder than ever, the trends of population fertility collapse are only accelerating. The primary (i.e. social program collapse) and secondary (i.e. immigration) effects of that are going to cause a lot of economic hardship and possibly even violence in once peaceful places.

This "happy path" narrative that all these dreadful social indicators (loneliness, suicide rates, drug abuse rates, relationship rates, fertility rates etc) are actually good because of some vague idea of "freedom" is symptomatic of this libertarian/liberal type of thinking. No matter how miserable and dystopian society becomes it's all worth it because someone somewhere is theoretically happy exercising maximum freedom.

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Why so aggressive? U mad?

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I'd argue that living in a shithole is not an achievement and something to be happy about. Especially when western, developed countries provide 10 time better conditions.

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Glad that you conveniently skipped the last part of my post.

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[–]AntWillFortune151 points 4 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Not at all if it’s something I actually want to do. If I get tired of one thing then I’ll do something else. I’m not spending all of this time, effort and daddy’s money for no reason lol. I highly doubt I’ll be tired of being the cool aunt. They’re like my children that I can spoil but then I can send them home at the end of the day. It’s fantastic. Plus I don’t like the idea of a baby ripping through my body. Sounds like a win win to me..

women enter the workforce and look to make a quick exit

Won’t be me 🤷🏽‍♀️

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[–]no-304s1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (54 children) | Copy Link

The average man or loser is not a toxic father. Single mother is the worst situation ever. Your child is guaranteed to become a failure in life and have mental issues. Sad.

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[–]BigBlackFatNaughty1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (34 children) | Copy Link

you can have your opinion,but even ugly woman dont wanna marry average man（aka loser）,you have to persuade them, nowadays these women are having children with chad or using sperm bank,and living a happy single mother life😊

[–]BCmutt1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (19 children) | Copy Link

Lmfao dumbest shit ive read today. You can cope all you want, society doesnt care about bitter people like you anymore than they care about incels(which is what you sound like btw).

[–]BigBlackFatNaughty1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (17 children) | Copy Link

sure,they dont care average losers（aka short ugly man with average wage）

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[–]DizzyReplacement441 points 4 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

I've stopped looking for awhile now not necessarily because I don't want to date or be in a relationship.

But more because I don't like the options available to me. Lots of fat women, lots of women with kids, lots of women who are batshit insane. Lots of women on dating apps only looking to sell nudes. Some women who want you to commit to being the boyfriend while she gets to fuck Chad on the side. Better off being alone.

I remember like a decade ago women used to be reasonably attractive and normal. But those days seem to be long over at this point.

[–]Panzercannon031 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Polyamory sucks. Never be in one of those situations. It's just sugar coating on being a swinger.

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[–]Virtual-Visual76091 points 4 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

I feel like a majority of people want a loving partner that fits everything or a lot of their wants.

Women have a lot of requirements and are really stringent.

Has anyone seen a women doctor/lawyer marrying a male nurse or clerk. What about a female ceo marrying a male entry level worker.

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Worse, I'm really expecting sometime in the next decade for the Filipino/Thai/South American/Eastern European wife pipeline to really become main-stream. It's the sort of thing that can reach a breaking point and suddenly get a ton of press that will only push it more into the public eye until someone really innovates an easy to use, free online system. There are 100 million people in the Philippines

It's bound to become....perhaps socially contentious, but acceptable in the sense that it known that 'every body is doing it'. You just need things like a poster child for it working out. A movie, an internet presence, public outrage, etc.

It looks like only 0.7% of marriages are mail order, which isn't insignificant. I honestly think a worst case scenario after a cultural movement towards mail-order brides is that 30 year old women will be completely fucked because who the fuck wants a 30 year old woman when you can have a 20 year old attractive woman. There are 2.4 million marriages in the US per year. There are 110 million Filipinos, 144 million Russians, 44 million Ukrainians, 215 million Braziliams, 128 million Mexicans. That's ~320 million women. 19% of Filipinos are 15-24, so ~11% are 18-24, which means there are ~35.2 million 18-24 year old women in just those 5 countries.

Essentially, if the average age of marriage in the US is now 32 years old, I really, really, really have a hard time believing that the half of men that are 32+ if they were sat down and shown pictures of women from these countries, 18-24, and then shown pictures of their prospective 32+ year old United States women and an honest account of their sexual history, and guaranteed no shame or embarassment in taking a mail-order bride, wouldn't go for the mail ordered brides.

If there are 35.2 women in those countries, and 2.4 million marriages in the US, with 1.2 million of those being 32+, you only need the hottest, most appealing 3-4% of those women every year to satisfy the marriage market, and there will be a true Facebook/Instagram of mail order brides.

For me, I really think this is awful, because despite me finding modern day women's sexual behavior abhorrent, I don't think they should suffer the last 5 decades of their lives being alone just because they followed their lizard brains around because a culture didn't exist to direct them to make good decisions in their 20s.

But fuck am I going to enjoy the REEEEEE. Omg, the salty, salty, salty, salty internet article titles about how awful men are for picking the hot 23 year old Latina over the old and busted 33 year old Master degree holder who spent their 20s sucking the dick of the most muscled thing that would make time for them.

[–]clarbg 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

[–]dietwindows1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

So now we get to find out how murderous and unstable polygamous societies are.

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The quality of potential suitors has dropped for sure but things like social media and online dating gave given both genders but women in particular inflated egos and completely unrealistic dating standards. Women now wanna play the field till they hit their 30s and then look for a man to settle with or hang onto their delusional standards and stay single while being Chad's ocasional hookup instead of finding a man at their level.

The average man is unattractive to even the below average woman because she has sexual access to the top men and her mind is filled with Disney fantasies. You tell men to work hard on self improvement but it won't improve our dating lives. Not when the quality of potential women to date is so low. At best if a man improves his situation by a huge margin he will become one of those top men that has women throwing themselves at him and he can proceed to pump and dump women in turn.

[–]toasterchild 12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

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[–]neolib-cowboy 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

See, there it is. Somehow, we have made raising kids into a horrible chore that will make your life "pretty empty" while slaving away in an office for some mega-corp is "inspiring" and "empowering." Motherhood and child-rearing should be celebrated. Being a stay-at-home mom should not be shunned (a discussion for another day) Would you rather spend your life building someone else's success or raising a family & building a household?

The only reason I work a job is so I can afford to live & afford to do the things I want to do. I don't live for work. Ideally one day I will work for myself and own a small company. Many women (and men too), on the other hand, base their identity on work and being a "career woman" which I think is foolish.

I think it's so ironic that in the 90s everybody hated office work and thought it was terrible, and yet today people are celebrating it and saying it's so inspiring and empowering. Like, what happened?

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[–]dukesaces 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

You're confusing what I wrote with asking a woman to be feminine or submissive.

To argue your assertions, it first depends on how you define these rewards. Women aren't really strong or Independent. What you define as strong and independent aka having a home, a car, paying your own bills etc is something men do and have done for eons without expecting any praise for it.

If a woman earns a lot of money she can buy lots of things she likes so In that sense yes, you can have material satisfactions and rewards but if they prioritize their careers and wait too late to get into relationships or if they "act like a man" and have a string of physical relationships, then these women probably won't find high value male partners. They need to realize they can't have their cake and eat it too, regardless of what the media or Disney fantasies tell them is possible. Those high value men that they want will pump and dump them and the kind of men waiting for them at 30 won't be the kind they respect or even want.

You're confusing feminine submissive women with pickme women. No man wants a pickme, at least not high value men. High value men respect intellect and capability in women but they also want these women when they're younger and with low body counts and when they're sweet, feminine and fun to get along with. They don't want average looking overweight women that are loud and argumentative. They'll pick the sweet younger and prettier receptionist over the girl boss CEO who's fat and frumpy 90% of the time, not because they don't value intellect and ability but because that does not supersede the other things that they value.

Women need to evaluate what they truly want. If you want a high powered career and lots of money, all the power to you but if that also means you let go of yourself physically, you wait too long to date or you're aggressive and argumentative or you get pumped and dumped by men, you won't find a quality man to date and marry cause men have standards too and you need to accept that instead of crying about it in gossip rags when you hit 40 and you're dying alone with cats and caviar.

[–]jasmine_tea_ 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]dukesaces 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]badgersonice 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

then these women probably won't find high value male partners

When all a “high value man” offers is cash and a little cheating on the side to a “great wife”, why shouldn’t she just get the cash herself for a much lower personal cost? If your definition of a “high value man” is a man who has lots of money but treats her like an inferior subordinate who needs to clean up his shit and obey his orders, you can see why women are preferring careers to being submissive wives. Men have very little nice to say about “feminine submissive women”, and never really have even in the past. So women aren’t playing the game anymore because they don’t have to. It may make you sad, but women aren’t actually that into submission.

You're confusing feminine submissive women with pickme women.

When men say submissive? They mean a woman who does what he wants and is compliant. They use the word “submissive” for a reason. Women just aren’t interested in putting on that performance when they don’t have to.

And as you mention elsewhere, men value looks more than her intellect or submissiveness. An average woman cannot “submissive” her way into getting a better man, so it’s better for her to just live her life as she wants and date the men available who like her for who she is, instead of putting on a show of bowing her head in submission. Being submissive gains her nothing, so why do it?

High value men respect intellect and capability in women

But if they want her to be “submissive” they don’t want her to use her intellect or capabilities, so what’s the difference? Well, one difference is that an intelligent woman who is not naturally submissive who’s expected to “be submissive” will be bored and feel resentful.

They'll pick the sweet younger and prettier receptionist over the girl boss CEO who's fat and frumpy 90% of the time

He’ll pick the skinner prettier younger woman no matter what, if that’s what matters to him. I also don’t know why you think women with careers are all fat, and housewives are all skinny, lol. Loads of housewives are dumpy and frumpy. And honestly, I’ve not heard of any female “CEO” who’s a fat single cat lady. And come on, there’s so few high power female CEOs, I don’t know why you’re obsessed with them. You’re probably never going to meet one.

you won't find a quality man to date and marry cause men have standards too and you need to accept that instead of crying about it in gossip rags when you hit 40 and you're dying alone with cats and caviar.

The ones who are actually mad about this are dudes who want an submissive wife, and can’t get one guaranteed to them just because they have a job and make an ok wage. The reality is that, since women can survive without a man, he has to offer something significant in order for a submissive woman to want to be submissive for him.

when you hit 40 and you're dying alone with cats and caviar.

The life expectancy for women in the US is not 40, lol. And for women who stay alone, it’s because they found being alone was a better choice than being with the men who offered. A woman who is not naturally submissive will be incredibly miserable acting submissive 24/7 just to please some guy.

[–]dukesaces 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

When all a “high value man” offers is cash and a little cheating on the side to a “great wife”

You're conflating a high value man with a rich douchebag. When i say high value man i mean someone who is kind, has a great personality, is reasonably attractive and successful and socially well liked. Women can absolutely get the cash themselves but if they prioritize their careers over their relationships they will have to make sacrifices when it comes to relationships. Also a woman being submissive and feminine doesn't mean she's treated like shit or does everything the man asks. You're taking the definition to its extreme. She can just be sweet, agreeable and kind that too is feminine and submissive. There are a lot of women that focus on their careers and prefer money to relationships and that's fine. However, there's also a lot of women that want the easy way out and lack the intelligence or capacity for hard work such as the women on onlyfans and the like and these women would go to great lengths to get easy money which include marrying a rich man and being treated like shit by him (again rich =/ high value man, that's only the definition of high value for FDS femcels).

When men say submissive? They mean a woman who does what he wants and is compliant.

Not really. The definition of submission varies from man to man. I wouldn't want a woman who can't think for herself and says yes to everything i ask for instance but i dont want someone who's argumentative or who goes against everything i ask for either. Submission can simply mean trusting your partner to make the right choices not that you have no input in those choices.

An average woman can land a better man by being submissive than she can by being dominant or argumentative. She can't land a 10/10 but she can land someone who's above average.

But if they want her to be “submissive” they don’t want her to use her intellect or capabilities, so what’s the difference?

You're confusing submission with a woman who's basically a sex slave with no capacity for independent thought. Many intelligent women are submissive in their relationships.

He’ll pick the skinner prettier younger woman no matter what, if that’s what matters to him.

Not if hes someone that values intelligence and ability. He's just not gonna pick based solely off that. Also i never said that all career women are fat or frumpy. Rather i specified that women that only focus on their careers and let themselves go or wait till they're too old are the kind that will struggle to find relationships.

The ones who are actually mad about this are dudes who want an submissive wife, and can’t get one guaranteed to them just because they have a job and make an ok wage.

I agree that average men have little to nothing to offer women anymore and that they need to offer something significant but that isn't even what i was talking about. I said that if a woman waits too long, let's herself go physically, is too promiscuous or has a shitty personality that's when she won't find a high value man to date her because men have standards too and that's something a lot of women don't wanna accept. Society lauds women for their standards. Sometimes those standards are even hypocritical. Fat women demand fit men, old women demand men their own age, broke women chase rich men and short women demand tall men. However, if a man wants a sweet feminine younger wife, he's criticized for it. Men that have options and that don't struggle to get sex or relationships will always have standards and will often apply these standards to dating and relationships which will then lock women out who don't meet those standards.

Yes the average man has nothing to really offer a woman but average and even below average women can offer the man sex and companionship which is why average men get married, usually to women who look worse than them and who they outearn by 33-50%. However men that don't struggle to get sex or relationships, who are in demand, usually won't commit to the average woman because she has nothing to offer him that he can't get from multiple other women.

for women who stay alone, it’s because they found being alone was a better choice than being with the men who offered. A woman who is not naturally submissive will be incredibly miserable acting submissive 24/7 just to please some guy.

I agree with this. At the end of the day the onus is on you to seek out what makes you happy, what maximises your happiness. If that's being alone or finding a rich, tall, exciting man to spend your days with or finding a younger feminine wife who submits to you, no one has the right to tell you what's good for you and no amount of shaming should impact your standards if that's what makes you happy. Men and women are allowed to have standards and to enforce them.

[–]badgersonice 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You're conflating a high value man with a rich douchebag.

No, that’s just usually who Red Pill types refer to as “high value”: a rich dominant handsome man.

When i say high value man i mean someone who is kind, has a great personality, is reasonably attractive and successful and socially well liked.

He is not kind he treats his woman as inferior. Demanding submission is not “kindness”. It’s domineering.

Also a woman being submissive and feminine doesn't mean she's treated like shit or does everything the man asks.

Submission means accepting your place as being lower in the hierarchy and being obedient. That’s what it means in religion, what it means when you submit to authority in other contexts, and it’s what men mean when they talk about submission from women as well. They don’t like to say it’s that, because they know it sounds like a shit deal and they won’t be able to sell women on it, so they try to reframe it by saying “no no, all it means is being pretty and kind”… but if they meant “pretty and kind”, they’d say that instead of “submissive”, which has a very different definition.

She can just be sweet, agreeable and kind that too is feminine and submissive. There are a lot of women that focus on their careers and prefer money to relationships and that's fine.

And there are a lot of women who are sweet and agreeable who have careers and husbands. You’re using the word “submissive” to mean something different very from just cooperative and kind.

Submission can simply mean trusting your partner to make the right choices not that you have no input in those choices.

It means that you bow your head and accept his decisions whether or none takes your opinions into consideration. It’s not submission if you only “submit” when you agree and then flout him when you disagree. Submission is obedience and deference, and those are hard and unpleasant and often unrewarding to do all the time. I don’t know why you keep saying that I’m taking it to extremes. Being submissive means giving up your own authority and obeying someone else’s. In every context.

You're confusing submission with a woman who's basically a sex slave with no capacity for independent thought.

Nope. You’re just strawmanning what I’m saying to deflect from defining submission clearly. It is by definition not the same thing as merely being pleasant or cooperative.

Many intelligent women are submissive in their relationships.

They are, but their intelligence is not of value in a submissive relationship— as you said yourself, a man looking for a submissive wife will care much more about her beauty than her intelligence. And her intellect is just not of much use in the role: a submissive wife’s job is to be deferential and sweet and to praise her husband for how smart and wonderful he is, not to have drive or solve problems or fix things.

Rather i specified that women that only focus on their careers and let themselves go or wait till they're too old are the kind that will struggle to find relationships.

Men are always trying to scare young women into fucking and marrying young. The reality is that having a career sets the woman up to be able to rely on herself when men are fickle and can abandon you. It’s better for young woman to invest in herself rather than a man, because her investment in a man can evaporate in an instant, whereas her investment in herself will last a lifetime.

let's herself go physically

Again, why do you think having a career means getting fat?

What does being fat have to do with being submissive or having a career?

You’re going off on a rant here about women getting fat blah blah blah, but it’s quite off topic. You seem to be conflating submissive with physically attractive… and yet loads of submissive housewives are flabby, fat, or even obese.

Yes the average man has nothing to really offer a woman but average and even below average women can offer the man sex and companionship which is why average men get married, usually to women who look worse than them and who they outearn by 33-50%.

So it’s about what you want women to offer men, not about what benefits the woman. Ao again, why should women be submissive if it’s just to benefit men who do nothing for her?

men that don't struggle to get sex or relationships, who are in demand, usually won't commit to the average woman because she has nothing to offer him that he can't get from multiple other women.

And if those men are swamped with attention, why should an average woman offer submissiveness? She won’t get anything out of it because he will find hotter women to fuck and marry.

You’ve made the case that most women shouldn’t be submissive unless submissiveness itself is pleasurable to them. There are a few women who have this as a fetish, so pursue them instead of trying to browbeat normal women into being the submissive waifu you want.

Men and women are allowed to have standards and to enforce them.

That is what most women who aren’t submissive are doing. They have their own preferences for how they want to live their lives, and don’t want to put on this stilted performance just to be a forever girlfriend or pumped and dumped by a “high value” man who doesn’t respect her.

[–]dukesaces 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, that’s just usually who Red Pill types refer to as “high value”: a rich dominant handsome man.

I'm talking about the general definition of a high value man, the kind of man most women would want to get with. Not whatever the red pill or FDS assumes it to mean.

He is not kind he treats his woman as inferior. Demanding submission is not “kindness”. It’s domineering.

What's wrong with wanting submission if she's willing to be submissive? Don't women have the freedom and agency to make that choice ? How is it treating a woman as inferior ? Some women are submissive and some aren't and it's choosing a woman that is, not forcing a woman that isn't submissive to become submissive.

Submission means accepting your place as being lower in the hierarchy and being obedient.

Not really, there are different definitions of submission. Yes it does mean obeying your partner and giving him the ultimate decision making authority but if a woman is okay with that then why is it a problem? A lot of women are willing to let the man make the decision and submit to him. It does. Not however, mean treating her like shit like you're trying to imply.

You’re using the word “submissive” to mean something different very from just cooperative and kind.

Submissive doesn't just mean cooperative and kind ofc but those are essential aspects of submission. Like i said some women are submissive and some aren't and if a woman is willing to obey her man what's wrong with that? If a man wants a submissive woman there's nothing wrong with it because submission doesn't automatically mean treating a woman like shit.

It means that you bow your head and accept his decisions whether or none takes your opinions into consideration.

Again, there's different kinds of submissive relationships. In the ideal kind you both discuss your perspectives before a decision is made but the ultimate decision making authority lies with him. This does not mean he won't consider your input or won't make a decision that factors that input.

Nope. You’re just strawmanning what I’m saying to deflect from defining submission clearly. It is by definition not the same thing as merely being pleasant or cooperative.

Not really, you're defining submission as this rigid master slave relationship without acknowledging that there's different types and degrees of submission and that some women are submissive by choice.

They are, but their intelligence is not of value in a submissive relationship

You don't really understand submissive relationships or how they work and that it can involve submission in some aspects but not others. Also just because he would have the ultimate decision making authority does not mean he wants a mouth breather who can't look after herself or does not have the intellect to hold an intelligent conversation or be capable enough to do things on her own. You think submission only applies to relationships where she's basically a bimbo sex slave that follows his every command and that's slavery not submission.

Men are always trying to scare young women into fucking and marrying young.

Men arent trying to scare women into anything. They're stating their preferences and standards. A woman is free to reject that and to pursue a career or her own goals just as she's free to marry young. They're both valid choices and to claim one is more valid than the other is to inftantalize women and think they aren't clever enough to make their own choices and need to be told what to do.

A woman has every right to pursue a career and look out for herself and to be self reliant in case a man abandons her but a man has every right to not want to invest emotionally in or marry an older woman who's focused on her career. Men and women have the right to make whatever decisions maximise their happiness and if men wanna pursue younger women and only have sexual relationships with older women that is their right just as it is the right of a woman to reject marriage and relationships in favour of pursuing a career. Women don't owe men relationships when they're younger and men don't owe women relationships when they're older.

You’re going off on a rant here about women getting fat blah blah blah, but it’s quite off topic. You seem to be conflating submissive with physically attractive… and yet loads of submissive housewives are flabby, fat, or even obese.

I literally admitted to that? I said that my arguments were about women that have only focused on their career and have let themselves go, not that all career women are fat. Read it again.

So it’s about what you want women to offer men, not about what benefits the woman. Ao again, why should women be submissive if it’s just to benefit men who do nothing for her?

No it was me agreeing with you that average men don't have much to offer to women. And average women don't have much to offer above average men. Both parties need to offer something of value for a relationship to form and these the average man doesn't have much to offer and the average woman has nothing that extraordinary men don't already have in abundance.

And if those men are swamped with attention, why should an average woman offer submissiveness?

Being submissive improves a woman's chances of getting a man that's above her but you're right that no one should browbeat a regular woman into submissiveness. You can't force someone to be submissive. Men and women should have their standards and stick by them and if someone doesn't meet your standards don't commit to them.

That is what most women who aren’t submissive are doing.

It's also what men that want submission or are high value (the actual definition) are doing. They aren't giving women that don't meet their standards relationship status and are just having casual sex with them until someone that meets their standards comes along. Neither side is wrong.

[–]badgersonice 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't women have the freedom and agency to make that choice ? How is it treating a woman as inferior?

Women have the right to make the choice to be submissive if they want. It doesn’t change the definition of submissive. The definition of submissive is “ready to conform to the authority or will of others; meekly obedient or passive.” The definition of submission is “the action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.”

Yielding to an authority is taking an inferior position in a hierarchical way. That is the meaning of the word. You cannot redefine it to mean some feel good submission is really a wonderful equality nonsense, because that’s not what it means.

you're defining submission as this rigid master slave relationship without acknowledging that there's different types and degrees of submission and that some women are submissive by choice.

He doesn’t have to beat her with whips and chains for it to still be a hierarchical arrangement of him dominating and her submitting meekly and deferring to his decisions.

That’s what the words mean. If you mean something else, then use a different word. If she’s not deferring to his ultimate decision consistently, or if they cooperate and negotiate to reach mutual decisions, then she’s not being submissive.

Also just because he would have the ultimate decision making authority does not mean he wants a mouth breather who can't look after herself or does not have the intellect to hold an intelligent conversation or be capable enough to do things on her own.

It doesn’t matter whether he “wants” her to be smart, his decision matters more than hers if he wants a dominant position in the relationship. A soldier is submissive to their commanding officer and must obey them; that doesn’t mean the commanding officer wants mouth breathing morons either… but it does mean that the soldier’s input does not actually have to care about his subordinate’s feelings in his decision making if he doesn’t want.

Being the submissive person in any interaction is risky. Some women are willing to take this risk, but you cannot pretend that deferring your life decisions to someone else is not risky.

You think submission only applies to relationships where she's basically a bimbo sex slave that follows his every command

No, you’re making up a stupid strawman to argue with again. I’m saying that him having the last word is actually extremely important, and you’re trying to brush it off as no big deal. It is genuinely a big deal— it ultimately means that her preferences only matter as much as he feels like they should. A submissive relationship is one where she doesn’t actually have the last say on things— that means by definition that she is obedient to his desires, even if his is considerate of her needs most of the time.

And you know that him “having the last word” is a big fucking deal, or you wouldn’t be arguing so hard for why it’s so wonderful.

They're both valid choices and to claim one is more valid than the other is to inftantalize women and think they aren't clever enough to make their own choices and need to be told what to do.

Women are free to decide to perform submissiveness if it makes them happy. But choosing that does has a meaning, and you don’t get to pretend she’s actually the one making all the decisions when that’s exactly what she’s not doing.

And you’re trying to shame me or something with this “you’re just infantilizing submissive women” crap, when, no, I’m telling you what the meaning of submission is. It’s not submission if she doesn’t defer to his decisions consistently and follows her own choices. Telling the woman she isn’t clever enough to make her own choices is really more what people insisting women should be submissive usually do.

Both parties need to offer something of value for a relationship to form and these the average man doesn't have much to offer and the average woman has nothing that extraordinary men don't already have in abundance.

Yes, I agree with this.

Being submissive improves a woman's chances of getting a man that's above her

Again, I disagree. Women who are attractive and have their own life goals and plans tend to do just fine without having to give up all their decision making power to a man just to get a good man. And likewise, women who are very submissive often tie themselves to awful men— being more submissive to men doesn’t make them nicer or notice you more. Some men think it does because they want it to be true, but in reality, there are plenty of very good men interested in women who are not “submissive”. They just want a woman who is cooperative and agreeable (which women also want— most women don’t want a man who is won’t cooperate with her), not someone who defers to him as an authority.

You can't force someone to be submissive.

You can. Religion guilt, lectures, and threatens women into submission to male authority. Abusive people use manipulation and violence to cow the other person into submission. You can beat someone literally into submission.

It is entirely possible to force or coerce people into submission. And because you’re so fond of dumb strawmen, no, I am not saying all dominant-submissive relationships are abusive or violent. I’m just saying it’s actually a thing to try to coerce people, and particularly women, into obedient submission.

They aren't giving women that don't meet their standards relationship status and are just having casual sex with them until someone that meets their standards comes along.

They’re glad to use different women in the ways that it suits them, whether it is to use them for casual sex or for some version of subordinate.

[–]BeautifulTomatillo 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]dukesaces 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Men that are older than 30 don't really date women that are in their 30s. They date younger women. The older a man gets the greater the age gap between him and potential partners. Women in their 30s are often forced to date older men.

You say that most women meet their partner at work. According to this source (https://www.bamboohr.com/blog/8-workplace-romance-facts-need-know-right-now/) only 22% of women do which means that 88% of women that get married meet men outside the workplace. Your fabricated statistics also don't reveal the age gap between couples and the difference in their job positions. No one said that successful adult men are dating college undergrads. However, it is a fact that the older women get the less desirable they are and the harder it is for them to date and that successful desirable men (men that have more than just their jobs going for them) will usually seek out prettier younger albeit driven and motivated women. You skipped over the entire section where I talk about how high value men do want intelligent and driven women but not women that are older (30+) or that don't take care of their appearance. I'm sorry but no amount of coping on your part will change the fact that men don't want old femcels that have nothing to offer beyond their careers.

[–]BeautifulTomatillo 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]dukesaces 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Older women may find it easy to get men for sex bu they cannot get men the same age as them to commit and using the average age gap as a metric is decietful because it accounts for the low age gap between younger couples. The age gap for women in the 30-49 range is much higher than that of younger couples.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/health/marital-status-elderly-health.html

Older women can always find sex and relationships, god knows I've been with my fair share of older women but they struggle to find lasting commitment. Most men don't wanna get into ltrs with them or marry them because quite frankly there's no reason for it. You can get everything by cohabitating or dating an older woman as you would by marrying one but you've got less to loose and unlike with a younger woman, there's little to no competition so you don't have to offer the sort of commitment that marriage entails.

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65% with a four-year college degree were married, compared with 55% of those with some college education and 50% among those with no education beyond high school. Source

As one example stat. College education is an ok proxy for career-seeking in women.

Careeer-seeking women are rewarded with longer, better, more stable relationships. Unless you can give me a real reason, backed up by studies, why you think women who go to college are just “nicer to be around” that has nothing to do with the kinds of women who make those choices, then you don’t really have a point and I’m right. Women who seek careers are statistically better off in marriage, even if you personally would prefer women not do that.

Here’s another:

The chance of a marriage ending in divorce was lower for people with more education, with over half of marriages of those who did not complete high school having ended in divorce compared with approximately 30 percent of marriages of college graduates. Source

Marriages are less likely to end in divorce among couples with higher education. Even though more highly educated women are a lot more likely to have careers.

or is it because they are y'know, nice women to be around and want to form a family with.

If being a nice woman who is pleasant to be around is possible with a career, then why are you complaining about women with careers?

It doesn’t really matter “why” the man thinks he’s with her. Her prospects are better if she goes to college and has a career, so she’s rewarded for those behaviors.

In contrast, women who avoid career seeking and try to win a man based on being a devoted housewife face the possiblility of being either left out in the cold with no husband and no sellable skills, or of being stuck in a real lurch if the guy isn’t as great as he seemed at first. In that way too, having a fall-back plan is better rewarded than being a housewife.

The more stable and longer lasting marriages as you put it, meet somewhere in the middle.

Sure— but the middle isn’t “woman has no career prospects and focuses entirely on traditional wife-craft”.

[–]maplehobo 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]badgersonice 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The latter has to juggle a lot more things between a spouse, children and family and their career.

This is true for “high value” men too. Many of them are terrible absent fathers.

But the discussion OP started was that all women with careers are too “masculine” and can’t get a decent man. And that’s completely false. Even many of the high-power women find a spouse and have kids and figure out how to make it work. And many lower power women figure out how to hit that balance as well.

It’s men who are more likely to try to pursue a career without any work-life balance. Women talk about it and balance all the time, even in highly career oriented circles.

The career bitches you’re worried about are rare: it’s men who think they can have it all: a high power career working 60+ hours a week while somehow still expecting to have a great relationship with their family they never see.

But you seem to think career power women are the ones being rewarded by men.

Most high power career women are either married, or don’t want to be. Most regular career women find marriage if they want it. The group who are struggling the most to lock a man down are not women in careers, it’s women of the working class, where single motherhood and divorce are much more common.

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I never said that adult women can't tell that a man is only interacting with them for sex but too many harbor the delusion that given enough time he will committ, that isn't an assumption it's a behaviour that women exhibit time and time again. If he wouldn't committ at the start hes very unlikely to commit later no matter how much sex you offer him.

You claim that adult women can tell that a man is only using them for sex and then state that men need to stop lying and manipulating women into sex. Men will always lie and manipulate women into sex and women lie and manipulate men into relationships. A part of being an adult is being able to sniff such scenarios out and avoid them. If a woman gets lied to and used for sex that's her fault just like a man that gets manipulated into a relationship.

[–]BeautifulTomatillo 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]dukesaces 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

No one can be manipulated into sex either by that very same logic. Women manipulate men into relationships by withholding sex till the men commit, by baby trapping them, by playing on the emotions etc. I don't fail to realize that the vast majority of women aren't interested in dating someone that doesn't meet their standards. I'm simply stating that both genders are entitled to their own sets of standards and if men want pretty feminine young women that's just as reasonable a standard as a fat career woman or an onlyfans 'creator' wanting a fit rich man. Both genders are entitled to their standards and it doesn't make them incels or whatever buzzword women use when they get mad.

If they're aware of that arrangement then what's the problem? U agree that manipulative decietful behaviour by men hurts some vulnerable women but that same sort of behaviour by manipulate decietful women hurts vulnerable men. Women are just as capable of being abusive and manipulative and yes they can manipulate men into relationships by playing on their emotions or physical needs. To acknowledge one but not the other is simple sexism. Why are you defending shitty behaviour by women? Because you hate men and enjoy mocking them?

[–]Over_Noise3530 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]The_Meep_Lord 26 points27 points28 points 4 years ago (84 children) | Copy Link

You are right, but why did you only tell men to improve themselves?

That is one of the core problems here.

Men are burning out from putting in endless effort for women who are not what they want at all and getting nothing to show for it. So they are all becoming unattractive due to the lack of success they have gotten previously.

Men need to improve themselves, but only when women’s standards become realistic and they also start improving themselves too.

Instead of demanding someone make 60,000 plus, have a six pack, have a big dick, etc, women need to demand a man who has 40,000 but is working to get 60,000, someone who is weak but lifting to get a six pack, someone who has potential and can get there with the right motivation.

To not shut men down for trying but failing. To give a chance to the unconfident but trying man.

Just like women in the past did. Do you think the real men of yesterday were all complete at 18 when they were getting married?

No, they did not hit there peaks until there mid 20s. The focus was on getting a man striving to reach that peak.

That is the problem.

Nobody is worthy of getting someone after they reach there peak. Only someone who is cheering them on during the race deserves that.

[–]whyamiherewhatawaste 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

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[–]FreefallFromGrace1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't say it's high demand, but it's a decent salary in many areas. In Texas, for example, a 60k household income puts you near the 60th percentile—and that includes two salaries.

Cost of living is worth considering. If someone makes 60k and lives in a big city on the East Coast or West Coast (or even in the South), good luck.

That said, I think the person above said 60k to fit the 666 idea.

[–]whyamiherewhatawaste 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]The_Meep_Lord 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FreefallFromGrace1 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Uh, what? I know plenty of people with houses in Texas who make either less than 60k or slightly above. In fact, I'd say that's most of the people I know.

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[–]The_Meep_Lord 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

Why women should discard their advantages they have now, and why this situation is a problem to begin with?

Because things will get exponentially worse until either women become reasonable or the government steps in to force women to be so to maintain order.

The issue with your argument is that you are assuming women are owed what they have and are more valuable then what they are truly worth.

The only reason women have what they currently have is because of the good faith of men and those at the top. The moment that they realize women will never be reasonable is the moment that nobody will be reasonable to women.

And no, I am not calling out women. This happens with any group that tries to hold out like you think women should be allowed to do.

You want sex, pay for a hooker, you want affection and cuddles, get a dog

No, arrogance will not help you here. Relationships are irreplaceable.

Nothing else will stop the decline.

Just let people do their thing you know?

Nobody ever has or will be able to “just do their own thing.” Your privileges are paid for by others. Your house, everything you own, your freedom, your job, your income, your everything comes at the expense of others.

Everyone is responsible for each other and owes each other shit. Thinking that women are somehow exempt from this will not change this truth.

Women’s standards are not important enough to let them destroy literally everything just so they can enjoy as much sexual pleasure as possible

Families are needed to maintain order.

Abortion is just the first thing the government will target. They will push as much as they can to keep order.

[–]BigBlackFatNaughty1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

lmao,they give you a chance to be bata bux and divorce raped，maybe also raise chads children?😂

[–]shonenhikada 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BeautifulTomatillo 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]The_Meep_Lord 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

Dude, tons of misogynistic men get girls all the time.

And tons of hardcore male feminists cannot get girls no matter what they do.

Trump became president of the United States and tons of women voted for him full well knowing what kind of man he is.

Incel men aren’t going to cause the collapse of society. Most of them are obese with no friends. Women are financially independent now, that’s why they have higher standards.

The supply chain and infrastructure breakdowns are literally because men are not willing to work like they use to because they do not have a reason too. We literally are sitting at 30% of “prime age” men not working at all for a loooong time now.

The economy is literally getting worse because men are not working like they use to.

Women are not “financially independent” at all, nobody really is. We are more dependent and poor then ever before. The house market being as bad as it is shows just how bad the economy is becoming.

People are literally still unable to get houses when they are 30+ years old.

It takes two incomes to make as much as one person use to.

We are building more prisons then schools. Rampant mental health issues across the country. School shootings exponentially growing in popularity. Relationships in general completely breaking down.

And the general overall trend is getting exponentially worse. We have already suffered crash after crash and there are predictions of another one coming.

And everything is as I (and many other red pillers) have predicted as I over 5 years ago.

Monogamy, family is THE most important pillar of society.

Without that, everything else decays to death.

Either you live in such a super privileged world that you are out of touch of what life is like for the average person or you are being intellectually dishonest.

Nobody wants to force women to be with x man hands maiden style. But if women do not start being reasonable with there standards, liberals will happily let republicans steal your rights away until they get women to start settling (all the while pretending they cannot do anything about it).

This isn’t about the individual, this is about the bigger picture.

They give zero fucks about the individual man too.

[–]BeautifulTomatillo 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]The_Meep_Lord 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

It is incredibly misandristic to imply that the reasons men have dropped out of the labour force is because they can’t find a women to date.

Most humans are weak and stupid.

Even those that are among the most intelligent of humans are stupid animals that are slaves to our instincts.

Just thing of the average person, half of all humans are less intelligent then him.

I agree the problems you’ve listed but your solution is to strip women their rights ? Seriously ?

No, I believe that is what is most likely going to happen.

What I want is a socialist system that functions akin to how societies worked pre-agricultural age.

Where people were just given easy access to what they wanted and needed. Sex, money, acceptable, etc.

The closest to what I want is the Netherlands.

But I think humans are too possessive of themselves and others to allow said society to happen yet.

We will have to reach the point where technology invalidates scarcity and humans stop caring about being special to get there.

There is also no evidence to support that.

Pick up a history book sometime or just read “fate of empires” to get a general idea. Every single empire that did the same thing as we did previously followed the same path we did.

And even if I do not have any evidence, that does not make my predictions wrong.

I mean, suppose that what I said does come true in five years time and that I have no evidence, how would my lack of evidence make the decline any less of a decline.

How many “average people” are proposing this a solution to their economic hardships.

The average person watches the Kardashians, is in a single parent household and does not know basic history.

The truth is that society is built on the foundation of stable families. Without it, everything else declines until it is stable once more.

The reason some misogynistic men are successful with women is because they are also self assured, confident and socially adept. They can also hide their views better.

No, it is just because they fit the shallow criterias women have. The same reason is why monsters like Amber Heard get success with men.

Unless external pressures are enforced, relationships and sex are all about incredibly shallow things. Why?

Because we are apes playing society.

A lot of those male feminists are insecure, whiny and socially awkward.

Those traits are the result of being unsuccessful, not the other way around.

The same reason someone who is poor has a bad work ethic and drive.

Also there are levels to misogyny and you are at the more extreme end, that’s why I mentioned it.

No, I am not misogynistic at all. In matter of fact, I am less misogynistic then most. Most people who you believe are for equality are benevolent misogynists. They believe that men need to take responsibility for women, that women need quota hires to keep up with men who they deem superior, that women need special mentorship and treatment to get results, that women need to be told that they “strong and independent” because they feel women are inferior and are unable to compete with men in a fair playing field.

And that is how I can say these things. I believe that men and women are equal in good…and bad. That both are at fault here.

My entire argument is not that men should get what they want for free, but that women need to do the same as men…improve themselves to be worthy of men and lower there standards to reasonable levels.

And if they are unwilling to do so, men will be unable to take responsibility alone as they lack the authority to do so. Men will instead burnout and become lower and lower value, while the economy and social stability will decay.

Society will grow more and more isolated until it all comes crashing down.

Then those in charge will do what they can to fix things. Which will be to force women to depend on men to get them to do what they need women to do to maintain the system and create growth.

That has always been my argument.

My argument is not that women should lose there rights. It is that stubbornly clinging to entitlements will lead to those in charge taking drastic actions to fix things as they always do.

[–]BeautifulTomatillo 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Incels exist in the Netherlands as they have existed in every society and every social structure. No matter what the economic conditions there will always be people that think they are entitled to someone out of their league .

You have a barely surface level understanding of the topics you're talking about. The social decline we're seeing has nothing to do with women being 'too picky', it is caused by increases in the cost of living, a decrease in manufacturing and low skilled jobs, increases in working hours and more advanced technology that allows people to isolate from themselves. Not to mention the terrible diets of most people.

You are quite literally 'thinking with your penis' when you reduce the issues facing complex economic systems into just 'It's cause I can't get a gf'. When as you've seen in the survey linked, 69% of men are in relationships.

Women are under no social obligation to sleep with unattractive men. Especially when you consider how many young men are obese, addicted to porn, video games alcohol or drugs, misogynistic and anti social. These factors are the cause of men dropping out, and the cause of their lack of dating success.

Women have the same moral obligations as men, to become financially literate productive members of society. Which they are achieving at higher rates than their male peers.

Those traits are the result of being unsuccessful, not the other way around.

Lack of self awareness and incapability of taking accountability for their failures are also in the category of undesirable traits. They are quite obviously the cause of your lack of success

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No. Thats not what I said. Both shooters did not shoot up those places because of women. The Buffalo shooter said it because of racism, idk why Ramos shot up the school.

However, I highly suspect they were incels. They can be incels and also shoot up places for nonincel related reasons. Its like you can be a Muslim but then shoot up a place for reasons besides Islam.

There is a difference between unaware (blue pilled) incels and aware (redpilled) incels. By definition, any man who wants to have sex but can't find a woman to do it with him is an incel. But most people wouldn't call them incels. They would just call them single & looking men. The typical incel is described as a sexually frustrated man who is also redpilled, who has strong misogynistic beliefs about women & female hypergamy, etc. While I am not sure if either shooter was aware of the redpill or incel beliefs, both could be described as incels. Both were loners, had trouble with women, were known to be creepy and make off-hand comments, and spent much time online. Those are all the warning signs of an incel. It is also common that these things go hand in hand. Hate breeds hate. Someone who is racist is more likely than others to be misogynistic as well

[–]hairy_bambooGave up, still fucked up xD 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Hungry-Adagio2152 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The problem isn’t that the government will step in when things get worse…the government obviously won’t, and how would they fix this issue anyway? The real problem is that the elites have set up this stupid “battle of the sexes”for the last 70 years or so, and now we’re seeing the consequences. This isn’t about “your advantages” as a women, or “my advantages” as a man. It’s about making a society work, and having each gender keep score and try to pull one over on the other side isn’t helping to accomplish that. It’s in everyone’s best interest to have a society that functions properly, and part of that involves having genders that flow together harmoniously. Men and women aren’t supposed to be locked in some sort of chronic “cold war” like this. Having 50%+ of the society effectively feeling disenfranchised and left out of everything isn’t going to end well, for anyone, at all. No man (or woman) is an island.

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[–]Strict-Position2151 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

It will be best if you do learn how to approach women. Learn some social skills and learn how they think. Also, maybe learn how groom yourself, buy clothes that fit, find a style that suits your body and your character (not saying that you don’t already do this, it’s a suggestion).

Please, don’t compare yourself to the other guys around you. The average guy isn’t very desirable for most women, so this is a very bad reference point. You’re at a very healthy weight for your height, although you can stand to gain a few more lbs of muscle mass. Your maximum is 80kg (176lbs) 70 - 75kg (154 - 165lbs) is closer to your ideal weight.

It might help if you get some therapy to resolve any past traumas and to work on your mental health (this is not saying that you have mental health problems, although it does give you some skills for coping with different situations), especially because when you’re mentally fit, you’ll be able to select suitable partners rather than those low quality, BPD love bombing women that a lot of these men complain about.

[–]LegitimateGlad 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It will be best if you do learn how to approach women. Learn some social skills and learn how they think. Also, maybe learn how groom yourself, buy clothes that fit, find a style that suits your body and your character (not saying that you don’t already do this, it’s a suggestion).

yeah i learned young that how i dressed was awful.

Please, don’t compare yourself to the other guys around you. The average guy isn’t very desirable for most women, so this is a very bad reference point.

Kinda hard not to, i see average guy's always wondering if she settled with him, wondering if he's good enough for her, using him for other reason, doesn't really find him attractive.

It might help if you get some therapy to resolve any past traumas and to work on your mental health (this is not saying that you have mental health problems, although it does give you some skills for coping with different situations), especially because when you’re mentally fit, you’ll be able to select suitable partners rather than those low quality, BPD love bombing women that a lot of these men complain about.

I did get hurt by a women and my mental was shit, it shouldn't have affected me but i was young and dumb. I feel that my mental health is decent, but it's always good advice for men either way.

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