Men are never allowed to be "Good enough"

BlueParsec · 2024-05-30T16:47:46+00:00

Nah you're right... personal experience with a woman that had negative 40k net worth at the age of 25 and unemployed for 5 months once told me that to feel safe she would need to marry a guy that makes 200k a year. She had no problems in dating. Pretty privilege is real. Whichever guy she ends up marrying is fucked as soon as his business or job goes away. Poor slaves.

matt_with_a_w · 2024-05-30T03:47:01+00:00

I don't think I've ever been with someone that accepted me as just myself. There was always something wrong and it was always my fault and my responsibility to fix it.

CraftyCooler · 2024-05-29T22:23:41+00:00

It is directed to everyone. I feel like we are supposed to be competitive in everything. Even goddamn coffee cannot be normal, you need to do it 'right', you cannot simply go for a walk, you need to practice for half-marathon in your free time. I've decided to go old school - I am proud of my family and that my wife and son seem to be happy. If I can do better at work - cool, if not - I won't cut myself.

I do not want my son to come to my grave and say that 'daddy was only 50 when he died, but he closed all his Jira tickets before heart attack".

driggsky · 2024-05-30T15:11:38+00:00

No. If you want average or above average women, you need to constantly grind or have attractive traits. Generally those attractive traits are your ability to acquire resources, maintain control of situations, be masculine, and also understand women.

Women don’t want you to be comfortable. They want to be comfortable. And both the woman and the man can’t be comfortable unless they already have a lot of resources or unless they don’t care too much about having more resources.

You will always be competing with other men and women will judge you based on how you are relative to her perceived ‘average’ man. If you are worse than that, then good luck.

tacticaltossaway · 2024-05-29T22:09:50+00:00

Are men allowed to be "good enough" and not have to prove themselves?

No. Hope that helps.

Silver_Past2313 · 2024-05-30T00:32:48+00:00

I'm kenough

Horned-Beast · 2024-05-29T22:25:39+00:00

I saw a poll. Don't remember where thst is very telling.

Asked guys, "would you enter a relationship with a woman who has 80% of your required behaviors or traits you want in a partner?" OVERWHELMING men answered hell yeah!@ she would be a keeper.

When the same number of women got polled, again OVERWHELMING the answer was "Hell no, that's settling and I should not be expected to settle"

jpla86 · 2024-05-30T17:16:07+00:00

Anyone who tells me that you don’t need to be perfect to attract women is lying. They require MORE than perfection from men.

IronDBZ · 2024-05-29T22:40:44+00:00

Nah, you're not wrong.

Men are pulled at both ends by the reality of society (especially a capitalist one) and social expectation.

We live in societies that structurally depend on men being average, easily replaceable, nonessential. While we also cultivate attitudes (culture) that necessitate success and ambition. It's a cruel thing to live in a world where to be normal is to be ugly.

We can't all be rich, we can't all be kings and dukes and bosses and managers, yet we're the ones who are forced to make ourselves into the impossible

bokan · 2024-05-30T14:41:27+00:00

I’ve started seeing this as a society-level shit test. Men have to be able to see through all of this language demanding unending self-improvement and progress, and accept that wherever they are now is okay. Self-improvement is great, but the desire to do so should come from within a person, not be something constantly demanded of you by others.

Melodic_Structure928 · 2024-05-29T23:58:00+00:00

We know it’s only ever men who are told to improve. Women are always just perfect the way they are no matter what. Even things like body positivity is just away to shame the few attractive men out there to date fat women. If you shove these things into every corner of the media hopeful chads image of what perceived as attractive will change.

”but body positivity is actually for everyone” really then why doesn’t it include men, men who lack a certain body type a full head of hair, or a chiseled jawline arent promoted all let’s not even forget all the hypocrisy we see in ads and such either. Examples

For men:
https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Mens-Underwear-Adult-Male-Mens-Lingerie-plus-Size-Leather-Underpants-Men-Briefs-1PC-Wicking-Sexy-Elastic-Breathable-Leopard-Clothes-Coffee-L/1EGIV0P4QNIW

For women:
https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/fruit-of-the-loom-womens-plus-fit-for-me-assorted-heather-brief-underwear-5-pack-assorted-colours/6000202322482

Edit: for the female image you might need to scroll right a few times.

Icy-Advance1108 · 2024-05-29T23:30:42+00:00

A FAT man is just that a FAT man.

A FAT women is considered plus sized or BBW which stands for big beautiful woman.

That’s our society is a microcosm

IlIIlIIIlIl · 2024-05-30T05:00:34+00:00

I lived in a penthouse in San Francisco with three giant balconies while engineering management for full-self-driving robot cars for a company everyone has heard of and I maintained an amazing body and charisma, and I STILL wasn't good enough to women. They just always moved the goalposts whenever I hit a new milestone and didn't treat me any differently. So now I just don't care at all. I quit my high-profile job and moved to a quiet city into a little old house and retired instead of pursuing meaningless accomplishments. And I feel so free.

VWGUYWV · 2024-05-29T22:09:29+00:00

If a guy moves somewhere away from friends and family, he can go a long time without anyone even really be nice to him. Some women would be like wtf why is everyone abusing me?

Hot_Lack_4868 · 2024-05-30T07:36:58+00:00

Because women want men to prove themselves and are extremely shallow when it comes to looks and body .A lot of women see themselves as trophies to be won .Body positivity for women worked because men are body positive

ihih_reddit · 2024-05-30T07:55:10+00:00

Spot on OP 🎯

Foxy_Traine · 2024-05-30T14:50:47+00:00

You should check out the "Man Enough" podcast. It's really interesting regarding the pressure men face.

Melodic_Structure928 · 2024-05-29T22:15:04+00:00

Most men will never be chad. Is the thing and yes men are generally judge much harsher then women are that’s true. We’ve reach the point we’re even the top 20% of men aren’t good enough and women are expecting even better. no wonder I’ve even seen well off and tall man say that dating is a struggle even for them, just look at these horrid stats.

https://ibb.co/mTM87Sh

these women are gonna be real surprised when they find out there all chads 9th side chick. It won’t end well for them either.

neinhaltchad · 2024-05-29T22:22:46+00:00

Yup. And then these same women screech at men for daring to date women in other countries who actually think they are good enough.

It’s another in a long list of reasons that 90% or western women are an utter nightmare to date, let alone marry.

Solondthewookiee · 2024-05-30T00:41:26+00:00

Whereas I don't see the same messaging from others for women to the same degree. I don't see this constant underlying message of you are not enough, you need to improve, why aren't you doing more?

I think if you talked to women, many would discuss a very persistent feeling of not being good enough regardless of what they do.

That being said, most of the support you see for women's accomplishments comes from other women. Body positivity is strongly for women because women are the ones strongly fighting for it. If men want that same sort of validation, why aren't we giving it to each other?

AngeCruelle · 2024-05-29T22:33:17+00:00

A core question here is "good enough for what?"

You bring up body positivity for example. Let's say men are included, that the whole internet claps for them and calls them stunning kings who are perfect the way they are. If that isn't manifesting in relationships and/or sex, how many of them are going to give a shit?

GhettoJamesBond · 2024-05-29T22:24:21+00:00

I think a lot of that is a subtle neg from women. I remember hearing so much that we as men were underachieving and needed to do better. Now that some men became high value they don't get any praise for it. I think it's because women don't want men to know that now the men are the ones with the power.

KayRay1994 · 2024-05-29T22:23:20+00:00

I think activity trying to be the best version of yourself is a good thing, however that may look like - now, i don’t think it means becoming the most traditionally fit, confident, ‘alpha’ guy - but rather, learn how to the content and pleasant version of yourself that you can and once you do, life will be a whole lot better as a whole.

Now, there are two reasons why women don’t go through the same thing

1) affirmation is something a lot of women do and rely on and it’s a very tight line between positive feedback and affirmation that a lot of women don’t know how to ride. On top of this, women do have a more ‘validating’ culture and while validation is a good thing, i do think there is an argument for women getting too much of it (to a point where it can be a detriment to your life)

2) flat out, men don’t ask for more out of women - and even in the rigid redpill expectations (which can border on dehumanizing, but that’s beyond the point), men straight up don’t own up to standards or expectations they set. More often than not if a woman expresses interest in him all red flags and expectations are thrown out the window.

So how do you expect women to have a growth mindset when every single thing is telling them not to?

untamed-italian · 2024-05-30T10:30:57+00:00

Because if a man is not being useful to women, women will dehumanize him until he changes.

just_a_place · 2024-05-29T22:14:43+00:00

Men were never allowed by nature to fly either, yet, here we are! Zig-zagging all over the skies like it's our business.

My point is that we - as men - give no fucks about what we are allowed or not allowed to do. All we hear is a challenge, and our masculinity is is a behavioral way of saying "challenge accepted."

Objective_Ad_6265 · 2024-05-30T14:50:15+00:00

For women it's actualy very toxic with the "self love" bullshit. If you admit out loud that you are not happy all by yourself you get a lot that "if you don't love yourself, noone can love you". It's very toxic positivity. So maybe to you this "self love" bullshit doesn't seem negative to you from the outside. But in reality it is very toxic and negative. You basicaly can't even say out loud that you are not happy alone and you need a partner.

TopEntertainment4781 · 2024-05-30T18:40:28+00:00

The quip, “you can never be too rich or too thin” was directed to a woman. I go to the gym regularly. I do it - in part - because I want to keep my weight under control and be fit and attractive to my husband.

Everyone - including women - are expected to keep working at being a good partner, inside or out.

Huge-Confusion-3827 · 2024-05-30T21:36:14+00:00

I don't think that something like body dysmorphia should be considered a disorder on men. It's natural for men to be constantly alert and chronically insecure because thruthfully men don't get jack. Men can have an abundance mentality which is based on hope of one day having that which they did no have yesterday or today.

Women basically just need to stop frowning and let the men in their lives. For men there is no such dragon to slay. For men it's not a sprint but a marathon. Overcoming your fears and believing in yourself is just the beginning and worthless in itself without effort. In terms of sexual stability a man's life is like a glitched video game where the enemy you just killed keeps respawning or once you're about to get to the finish you are transported closer to the start.

ReprogramMyLife · 2024-05-31T11:27:34+00:00

I feel that women experience similar pressures, just it is primarily or almost exclusively related to the physical, while it encompasses much more for men. Also that varies culturally, east and south Asian cultures have those pressures along the gender lines.

MistyMaisel · 2024-05-30T01:56:55+00:00

I think, and this is just my experience as one woman: I constantly feel not good enough, but have essentially since a young age learned to gamify and enjoy and find pleasure in the self improvement endless grind. Ritualize it even. The feeling at the core doesn't change, but how it is enacted becomes positive and fun rather than restless agony.

My experience of men is that they struggle to turn this feeling into positive fun. And thus they're living in restless agony. Which sucks. For sure. I'd suggest finding the joy in this suffering we all endure.

I feel very chosen with my boyfriend and vice versa. And that wasn't true in past relationships. I don't think good enough is the right word, I'm always striving, but I feel finally ok with him. Don't seek good enough, seek ok with each other.

Hard-carbon · 2024-05-30T10:36:38+00:00

Women give their friends yas queen support to all behaviour no matter how retarded. That’s to her face. Behind her back she knifes her. Bitch.

EulenWatcher · 2024-05-29T22:10:20+00:00

Overachieving society pushes both men and women.

As a woman you're never pretty enough. Whatever you choose, you should have done more, better and also be thing and young. Body positivity and feminism movements try to counteract it, but quite often their ideas get distorted just to put more pressure on women. Now it's not enough to be a good mother, you also have to make money to provide for your kids. As a working mother you fail your kids and as a SAHM you leech of your husband. If you put off having kids and make a career, you miss your fertility window, but if you have kids young, you have harder time getting (back) into the workforce etc.

Wing_Puzzleheaded · 2024-05-29T23:34:29+00:00

It's always on us to improve. There is a lot of money in gaslighting men because we are expected to pursue to be chosen by women. Never the other way around.

rivertorain- · 2024-05-30T06:14:17+00:00

Men have more potential for power, and therefore greater expectations placed upon them.

PictureSad140 · 2024-05-31T14:49:29+00:00

Women want us to be breadwinners, take care of every chore, be her emotional support animal, a court jester who entertains her, and so much more. It's never enough. Yet, they preach about how they want it to be 50/50. Like, you can't want me to do everything for you and then call it 50/50. It seems like modern womens' obsession with not mothering their boyfriends/husbands has resulted in them being grueling taskmasters for whom no amount of effort is ever enough.

PictureSad140 · 2024-05-31T15:00:36+00:00

Most women are painfully insecure and the body positivity thing is a cope for them. I get it.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-05-30T00:35:05+00:00

youre allowed to be whatever you want, that doesnt mean women will be attracted to you

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-05-29T22:30:33+00:00

I never understood what was so important about “validation” anyways. Figure out your own goals, bust thru them. Move towards bigger and better goals. Help lift people up along the way. Stack your accomplishments and things you’ve done like bricks on a foundation going even higher. Let the success speak for itself. The “validation” will come from what you do and the achievements you’ve earned

“Become so good, they can’t ignore you.” -Steve Martin

LimpJongUn · 2024-05-30T00:02:27+00:00

Men are not loved or cherished by society by default. Women are loved and cherished by society by default. Men must earn respect, it is not given. This is the “burden of performance” in relationship and life as a man, demonstrate you are worthy. Prove you are worthy of what you seek.

Women are not subject to the same pressures, they do not need to prove their worth for respect is given to them, not taken by them. But how much respect are they given? Never as much as someone who proved their worth and taken the respect

Let this be liberating for men reading.

Exceptions apply

Mysterious_Pickle_78 · 2024-05-30T01:33:42+00:00

Just stop giving a fuck.

Stop pontificating and take action.

Learn game and take action and stop whining about what polls think.

Most of these polls are rigged by angry, fat, feminist, women.

superlurkage · 2024-05-29T22:07:11+00:00

You’re told to self improve because you’re complaining about being alone or not treated like Chad

Women are told to drop or raise their standards

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Intrepid-Rip-2280 · 2024-05-31T02:26:44+00:00

That's how competitiveness works. Do your best or you'll end up dating Eva AI sexting bot avatar

Boxisteph · 2024-05-31T09:28:50+00:00

allowed to be "good enough" and not have to prove themselves? - yes, society will love them but those men shouldn't expect women to sleep with them.

Agile-Explanation263 · 2024-05-31T22:23:53+00:00

As a man you're born into constantly proving yourself to people even your parents, friends, even when you have a girlfriend. The less you do the more likely she will leave you.

The more attractive you are as a guy the less you have to do at least in the area of dating at he very least.

It is what it is but the painful part is when people deny this..

Upset_Material_3372 · 2024-06-01T06:53:37+00:00

When you have an environment where men can never be enough more will just give up creating a vicious cycle.

wardenferry419 · 2024-06-01T12:21:09+00:00

There's a saying that I think has some truth to it. Man marries woman hoping she doesn't change; women marries man hoping he will change.

Economy-Shake-1448 · 2024-06-01T20:38:21+00:00

Yes it does. The bottom line shows recipients. Medium and below male senders have more success with medium and below female recipients. Meanwhile medium and below female recipients have lower success with medium and below male recipients. Once you are average and below, men don’t want you, even if you’re looks matched.

<image>

mobjack · 2024-05-29T23:13:27+00:00

If you are able to get married and start a family, then you are good enough.

The advice to constantly improve is mainly directed towards single men.

kalashhhhhhhh · 2024-05-29T23:03:44+00:00

The reason you don't see that message for women is because you're not the recepient. I can absolutely attest to the fact that I relate to almost everything in your post.

I don't see this constant underlying message of you are not enough, you need to improve, why aren't you doing more?

We see it. Almost nobody feels like they are good enough. Women also have to balance between the desire to have a biological offspring and the desire to have a career. There are many expectations that are placed on us.

For instance, the ideas of body positivity are, at least from what I see, more directed towards women.

Yet I don't think I've ever met one woman who was 100% satisfied with her appearance. Body positivity means jack shit, women are more insecure than ever because of the oversaturation of instagram models, photoshop, filters etc

I'm not saying our struggles are bigger. All of us are struggling with more or less the same things.

apresonly · 2024-05-29T22:23:10+00:00

which women are allowed to be good enough?

tell me a woman or a type of woman who is not insulted by men.

silverhippo15 · 2024-05-29T23:07:19+00:00

Any coach worth his salt pushes the players with potential, not hopeless bums.

Realistic-Ad-1023 · 2024-05-30T01:26:52+00:00

Because we know who men are when things are “good enough.”

You ever met a woman who thought she was amazing and you thought she was mid? She never improved, always cried about what went wrong in her life, constantly looking for validation or handouts, made poor decisions, and cried it was actually everyone else that was the problem?

That goes for men too. The man who was ambitious and loved you , who had such amazing dreams planned for your lives together - and then you’re together and you’re in love and long gone is the man who worked hard, made you feel good, or had anything going on, let alone a dream he was pursuing. You’re stuck continuing to work, to build, believing this shared goal is still shared. And he’s complacent. He stops trying. Video games until 3am, doesn’t give you attention or hold your hand. Isn’t trying to leave his shitty job, meanwhile you’ve gotten promoted 3 times since the conversation about the shared dream^tm. They decide this is enough and you’re stuck. Living life is about growth and change and finding joy. And instead, they are content to jack off with your body and ignore you otherwise. And don’t give me the “we’ll stop dating chads” bs - average people date average people. We all date within our looks, socioeconomic status and vicinity. Using hyperbole about there 5 women chasing 10 men is old, tired and wrong.

There’s a man who regularly comments here that he would be content to be a fast food worker, living with roommates, just playing video games all day, but he can’t attract women that way. If he had access to holes, he wouldn’t even bother. And he paints this as a bad thing. Women just want too much. How dare she have dreams that she wants her partner to share with her. Instead of just finding a woman whose dream it is to do the bare minimum, play video games and smoke pot all day. Instead he has this hatred of women who desire more out of life.

Women have to work twice as hard to obtain even similar levels of pay, accolades, or recognition that a mediocre man gets. If you desire to be “good enough,” then just find women who find you good enough. If you have no dreams or aspirations, don’t bait and switch. Just be honest about your intentions. And allow good, hardworking women the space to actually do shit with high value men. If you want a men’s body positivity movement, start one. If you want a men’s rights movement, start one. But don’t expect zero criticism when your entire movement begins and ends with “iTs WoMeNs FaUlT tHeY wOnT fUcK mE!” Instead of blaming women and then also expecting them to enact the change you wish to see, just do it. Man has never been an oppressed class. Poor, black, disabled, plus sized, neurodivergent, immigrant status, all ways you can be oppressed. Being a man, not one. Using it as your axis of oppression is why no one takes it seriously. Educate yourself. Be the change you wish to see.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-05-29T22:10:13+00:00

If “good enough” isn’t getting you dates or a partner and you’re not happy about it…you’re not “good enough.”

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-05-29T22:31:49+00:00

I think it depends if you’re getting the outcomes you want in your life.

If you’re comfortable where you are in life & satisfied with the outcomes then I don’t think it applies to that extent.

Men are allowed to be good enough if they fully believe they’re good enough.

Pleasant-Speed2003 · 2024-05-29T22:15:25+00:00

Firstly you need better people around you every man I've known closely has had achievements they are proud of and got to a level they wanted with what they were doing and stayed there. Heck my ex's are doing good enough to them friends and family living at home and not working, at least to not get shit for it.

Everyone gets pressured by idiots for different reasons depending on how they look/act/what responsibility they have. Your gender won't exclude or include you in that.

GridReXX · 2024-05-30T14:56:11+00:00

If everyone told you you were enough, but they never seem to hire you for the good jobs and good looking women don’t want to date and the normie guys don’t want to be your friend…

Does being told “you’re enough” outweigh the reality that you’re not desired for the good jobs, by women, and by normie men?

Lots of people get told they’re “beautiful” on social media out of others being kind. If she can’t land a guy willing to take her out, and that’s ultimately what she wants, the IG validation from her female peers is merely a salve.

We can do that for guys too if they want? But guys tell us they don’t want that. They want sexual validation. And well I’m not willing to offer sex to someone I don’t want to have sex with, but I am willing to offer kind words.

Key-Faithlessness-29 · 2024-05-31T00:50:43+00:00

It's men saying that shit soo idk what you on about

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-05-29T23:39:56+00:00

Women under 30 tend to have considerably lower levels of self-esteem than men, particularly in developed countries. After that, culture has a big impact on which sex has more self esteem and at what age. Do with that what you will.

https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2017-36143-001.pdf

We found that sociocultural region significantly interacts with age and gender to predict self-esteem, such that (a) females report lower self-esteem than males from ages 10 to 30 in advanced economies; (b) males and females display different self-esteem patterns across the life span in all sociocultural regions, such that female self-esteem shows more fluctuation during adoles- cence; and (c) sociocultural region significantly moderates patterns of age and gender differences in self-esteem. Our results reveal that some aspects of age and gender differences in self-esteem are universal across cultures (e.g., the adolescent gender gap), whereas other as- pects are culture specific (e.g., baselines and patterns across the life span).

claratheresa · 2024-05-30T10:50:03+00:00

Yeah right.

If a man doesn’t want to fuck you or have you been his mommy, you have no reason to exist as a woman. And the minute you provide the services he wants he expects you to dematerialize.

Hellizecopter24 · 2024-05-30T12:14:25+00:00

You can be good enough, if you reach a woman's high standards.

Men are never allowed to be "Good enough"

Comments

AND YET WOMEN MESSAGED ALL OF THEM 🫵🫵🫵

WHILE MEN ONLY MESSAGED THE TOP 30% 🫵🫵🫵

It’s right here. Women messaged the majority of men, regardless of how they ranked them. The author was mad about it, because it didn’t match his narrative. But while men focused on messaging the hottest women, women were more than happy to message average and below average men.

I type big because you clearly didn’t read the article

By fat men are much pickier than women and focus on the top women.

medium and below women got lower message response rates from medium and below men than men did from women. Average and below women responded more to their male equals than men did.

Title	Men are never allowed to be "Good enough"
Author	No_Assistance1532
Upvotes	130
Comments	597
Date	May 29, 2024 10:05 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1d3o292/men_are_never_allowed_to_be_good_enough/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-are-never-allowed-to-be-good-enough.1519969 https://theredarchive.com/post/1519969