Women mostly get “the ick” over perceived shortcomings of masculinity

MIW100 · 2023-07-15T14:20:54+00:00

I don't understand the waiter thing, what are we supposed to do? Scream across the restaurant, chase them down, go get our own food?

Sometimes it's just busy and people are working.

evadingbanslol · 2023-07-15T16:58:10+00:00

Any woman that says "the ick" gives me the ick.

Yupperdoodledoo · 2023-07-15T17:17:46+00:00

Or just don’t date women who are looking for something else?

pancakesyo_ · 2023-07-15T16:57:48+00:00

It's stuff like this that gets me so blackpilled and jaded.

The hoops, the absurdity, and the contradictions are extremely exhausting. I don't even know why men are continuing to ask these questions and have discussions, when most women in these subreddits or discussions know what's going on. Most women knows there's a internal contradictions and outright unfairness in dating from the male POV. They just don't care because there's no incentive for them to do so.

Critical_Lettuce2899 · 2023-07-15T14:32:25+00:00

Simply put women love masculine men and also benefit from the patriarchy

toasterchild · 2023-07-15T14:05:08+00:00

It's just the internet. If you take something one person says on the internet and try to apply it to ALL women yeah it's going to seem like women hate everything. It always comes back to the fact that we are all individual people who have individual tastes and turn offs. Which is the entire point of dating, to find someone you mesh well with.

There is not cheat code to women. There is no one thing you need to be to be attractive to all women. It doesn't even sound like you would like women like this so why would you be upset about turning them off? Worry about finding the ones who aren't like this.

Anti-Toxicity · 2023-07-15T15:29:12+00:00

Women who "ick" at these things aren't worth your time. Find someone who values a real human and not a facade. Btw most women I converse with do not "ick" at these things.

Natt_Katt02 · 2023-07-15T21:22:59+00:00

If someone gets the ick because of the way you sit, or anything on that list, I'm afraid the relationship was not very strong to begin with, or her feelings

AngeCruelle · 2023-07-15T15:06:29+00:00

Hygiene-related icks are way more common ime and that is not a masculinity shortcoming so much as a masculinity feature

philseven12 · 2023-07-15T15:07:37+00:00

women get the ick whenever they want to get the ick

Cat_Lover259 · 2023-07-15T17:09:47+00:00

None of those give me the ick…I don’t think many women get the ick from those examples. It’s actually cute when a guy giggles or his voice breaks.

ThrowAwayHuman122333 · 2023-07-15T15:03:43+00:00

"The ick" happens when a woman's perception of a man doesn't match who he ends up being.

If she thinks he's cute or handsome and masculine-looking but he ends up being an immature nerdy dork: ick.

If she thinks he's mature and level-headed but he ends up road-raging while driving places: ick.

Doesn't really have anything to do with masculinity.

operation-spot · 2023-07-15T20:04:22+00:00

The ick is basically a synonym for a turn off. The things that turn people off are not universal and often come off as superficial but at the end of the day that’s how they feel.

The woman on Tik Tok is probably not the woman you’re going to date so you should probably only think about the icks or turnoffs of the types of women you want to attract.

Mkg102216 · 2023-07-15T21:53:53+00:00

I mean it think most of that stuff is cute as shit when a guy does it so fuck me I guess..

Meo_cute · 2023-07-16T04:45:45+00:00

"When the waiter ignores him"

What? Do waiters actually notice and intentionally ignore customers?

womandatory · 2023-07-16T06:07:34+00:00

I think this is a list OP invented himself. None of those things bother me in the slightest. I mainly get the ick when 50 year old men leer at teenage girls, or when men are rude to wait staff, or when they make misogynist ‘jokes’.

gorne14 · 2023-07-16T10:19:55+00:00

This is not the first post like this that I am reading here and my thought is that I have no idea where you get those women and why you think you can generalise it for the whole women population.

FairyMachine · 2023-07-16T11:22:57+00:00

Men here are blackpilling themselves here at this point. Neither myself nor any of my female friends give a shit about any of the things you mentioned and I'd think they were absolutely pathetic if they did.

You're inventing your own rage porn to get upset about.

Epiphanic_Eros · 2023-07-16T15:33:12+00:00

Where are you drawing these conclusions from? I’ve done a ton of dating, and these are not things I’ve ever noticed (though men giggling in a high pitch is quite unusual). Seems like a summary of some lecture by Professor Tate, or something. Because it’s not from experience

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2023-07-15T15:59:42+00:00

What a weird thing to claim. I don't remember being part of the Borg hive mind.

Opening_Tell9388 · 2023-07-15T17:08:39+00:00

Or ya'll can just be yourselves stop being doofy and accept that not everyone is for everyone. People vibe or they don't. It's not that deep.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-07-16T02:16:16+00:00

I spent most of the day with a man I was hesitant about because he’s obviously an uber masculine gym rat with muscles, deep voice, callouses from climbing, and scars from falling when climbing. (Not a gym climber, an actual rock climber from Arizona).

He had never hiked in my region before where wildflowers are going nuts thanks to perfect weather. When we reached the peak where the wildflowers and blueberries were peaking, the man frolicked. Like picked me up, swung me around and I’m six or eight inches taller. Then he goofed around through the field of flowers like a little girl and it was the goddamn cutest thing I’ve seen in a year.

I have it on video. I’ve sent it to all my girlfriends and they have all decided they are in love with this goofy-ass, emotive strong man.

One of us will be dating or fucking him within the week. I hope it’s not me, I’ve never had casual sex but. I’ve never been more tempted in my life.

The “effeminate” criticism in the OP is so far off the mark it’s funny.

Big_Ranger_4220 · 2023-07-15T16:08:19+00:00

Dude. Women aren’t as simple as you think.

I’m 6’1 (masculine), paint my nails (feminine), ambitious (masculine), no hair on my body except for my hair (feminine)

I have 0 trouble getting laid. On dating sites I get 20-30 matches a week.

You don’t need to be hardcore masc to get a good girl. Just be confident and comfortable in your own skin.

slazengerx · 2023-07-15T15:46:07+00:00

You forgot the biggest one:

"when he obsesses over the 'ick' on the internet" ick

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-07-15T14:05:19+00:00

Who is getting the ick over emojis? Unless you’re sending her the eggplant and peach, which yeah, ick.

Thatshygurl · 2023-07-15T16:52:59+00:00

”when the waiter ignores him” ick

This is an ick!? I feel bad then cuz when I worked as a waiter I would often ignore guys who were on dates with a girl. Mostly cuz some women would feel threatened over me literally taking an order and smiling at their man. So I learned to make minimal eye contact, basically ignore the dude and engage with their girl. In my experience they usually control how much the tip will be, so I didn’t want to piss them off.

ingenjor · 2023-07-16T00:17:15+00:00

I think you can shed a tear at a sad scene in a movie or series without repercussions as long as you don't turn into a hulking mess. I've done as much. You sit there stoically but a tear rolls down your eye, no big deal.

rox7173 · 2023-07-16T01:44:22+00:00

"when his voice breaks" funny "when he uses those emoji" he's not a dry texter! "when the waiter ignores him" wtf, that waiter is an ass "when he giggles with a high pitch" he's feeling comfortable with me omg! also cute af "when he crosses his legs while sitting" noticed, but have no feelings about it, just not how you usually see guys sit

honestly, some of these are the reasons i like the guy im currently into lol

ElectricalStomach6ip · 2023-07-16T03:03:30+00:00

further proof that gender is a cage that traps us into sets of behavior we have been socially conditioned into performing.

RandumbThrowawayz · 2023-07-16T03:09:21+00:00

We lumping hetero women and queer women together? Cuz im a queer woman that prefers to date somewhat shy, sensitive empathetic men, big plus if they are also queer. Im not into super macho men at all

_Wolfszeit_ · 2023-07-16T13:29:27+00:00

This needs to stop. Men should be allowed to do whatever they want and express their feelings just like any other human beings and that would never make them look less manly. I would say that a guy who don't express his feelings and never cries would be problematic.

Maned_LionMan69 · 2023-07-16T13:48:41+00:00

Bitches who say "the ick" don't deserve attention to begin with. Grow up and learn to adapt to a person's behaviour and habits

henrycatalina · 2023-07-16T16:41:47+00:00

Better when the waitress has your attention.

Monkebizniss · 2023-07-16T18:05:43+00:00

I literally cried in front of a girl last night and we hooked up like an hour later.

desoop · 2023-07-16T19:31:12+00:00

There was this girl, we vibed she took my number as my phone was switched off.

She never texted so I forgot about her.

Some time recently someone texts me hi on WhatsApp, they don't have a profile picture so I ignore it.

The person keeps texting me hi again, so I ask them who is this? No response so I ignore them. I get a follow on Snapchat some time later, the same person. Hmm this is weird.

Today the account uploads their profile picture and then texts me a Hi, I recognize the girl. And I guess I shouldn't have double texted, because guess who got left on read.

🤷🏽

I guess she liked the stoic idea of me who ignores strangers better than the me who does respond.

ThorLives · 2023-07-15T16:23:44+00:00

I was thinking about this recently, and my conclusion was that the "ick" mostly happen when men: act like a woman, acts like a child, or acts incompetent, even for a short time. These can be: appearing weak, incompetent, too emotionally expressive or reactive (rather than stoic), speaking in a high-pitched voice, being too concerned with his appearance, "sitting with legs crossed", etc. "Acting like a child" can mean a lot of things, including incompetence, lack of confidence, but can also mean little things like sitting "indian style" (which I've heard from women multiple times) or using the "pleading face" emoji 🥺 which is a very childlike/begging expression. Kinda stupid. Here's a list of some.

The solution is for a man to perform his masculinity sufficiently well at all times, and never crack. Basically, be a walking, talking stereotype of a hyper competent and capable adult man. Ironically, women also act like gender roles are bad and oppressive.

AgeOfReasonEnds31120 · 2023-07-15T17:58:36+00:00

Then they blame it on men and call it "toxic masculinity".

Cjaylyle · 2023-07-15T14:23:07+00:00

You make out like it’s a minefield, but it’s not.

Just don’t be fundamentally feminine and weak, and low and behold, you won’t giggle like a girl, and cross your legs in a protective way, and you will have assertion and presence to be respected by service staff and you won’t feel the need to over communicate with animated emojis like a dancing monkey over text and you’ll speak with confidence and control, all of these things will just happen naturally and you won’t feel compelled to withdraw into submissive habits.

Gravel_Roads · 2023-07-15T14:05:24+00:00

Why are you calling it “the ick” like these women are afraid of cooties instead of just saying “these are things some women could find unattractive”?

Edit: lol the inc*l downvote gang is showing strong. Guess it’s the only option when you know you’ll sound worse if you actually have to explain yourself

medurevengea · 2023-07-15T18:23:42+00:00

These are joke icks that girls write on tiktok as memes. It's not even an ick. It's second-hand embarassment at worst. No one wants to be ignored by the waiter so it might make you feel awkward to see someone ignored. But 99% of people understand you're not even being ignored, restaurants are just busy, so that's dumb anyway. Actual icks women have: Guys being older, not respecting boundaries, using women for sex, etc.

foffsrz · 2023-07-15T15:02:09+00:00

The ick isn’t a real thing. Women getting the “ick” means they witnessed a character flaw or you did something that annoyed them. Since every woman deserves mr perfect who has no flaws, they made up a fake word to once again, absolve them of accountability.

My ex girlfriend asked me once “what gives you the ick” I told her I don’t get the ick because I’m a grown up that judges people based on the sum of our interactions and not one particular moment where I found them unattractive. She also asked me if I would date her if she was a worm. I told her to stop asking me 70 IQ Tik Tok memes and no I wouldn’t because worms are disgusting.

Grand-Inspection2303 · 2023-07-15T15:06:14+00:00

Most men are naturally masculine (hence why these traits are considered masculine) so this doesn't require a "performance." More effeminate guys will have a struggle, but the good news for them is that women's desire are a spectrum just like men's masculinity. Both "men are masculine," and "women prefer masculine men," are true statements as generalizations about group averages and tendencies, but not true about every individual.

So the effeminate guys will have to make a choice. They can do as you suggest and suppress their non-masculine traits to maximize the number of women they attract, or they can try to attract the women who are don't desire as much masculinity. The first choice has the advantage of appealing to a larger number of women if it's pulled off successfully, so that you actually appear to naturally have those traits. However, there's a high risk of doing it badly and coming off as fake and repelling even the women who like less masculine men. The second approach will be targeted to potentially much smaller number of women, but it's less likely to backfire with you looking like a phony or the mask slipping off. Of course, this is a simplification, and you can mix both approaches and the right mix will depend on you particular situation.

13choppedup2chopped · 2023-07-15T14:17:25+00:00

I agree all women get the instant ick, and that means you should be very skeptical about about people saying men should do better. But I think the ick is more random and spontaneous than just shortcomings in masculinity.

Unnecessary-Training · 2023-07-15T15:17:35+00:00

"when his voice breaks" ick

"when he uses those emoji" ick

"when the waiter ignores him" ick

"when he giggles with a high pitch" ick

"when he crosses his legs wile sitting" ick

May I very kindly know where exactly did you see these events happening?

xdivinex22 · 2023-07-15T15:09:50+00:00

Yep. Couldn’t agree with the crying thing. I’ll add: don’t be emotionally open with women about your insecurities. They will see it as a weakness. They say they want you to be emotionally open but they don’t. Want to come home and be sad and mope around about how hard work was? - don’t. They will get dried up. Come home like Super Man and that work didn’t phase you at all. Just as an example what I’m talking about.

Would-Be-Superhero · 2023-07-15T16:42:41+00:00

Where do you come up with this bullshit? Who says "ick"? Some random woman who trolls on Twitter to get men to write posts like these. Most women don't care about the things you wrote in this post.

ferociousFerret7 · 2023-07-15T17:15:06+00:00

My large member prevents any seated leg crossing, voice breaking, or high-pitched giggles.

calfshrug · 2023-07-15T17:27:50+00:00

None of that is inherently “ick”, especially crying. What’s ick is being wishy-washy and uncomfortable, and being unable to read and respond accordingly to social cues.

If you have a guy who starts to sweat, go SNS mode, his tone of voice becomes upset, and he loses the plot of the pleasant dinner out just because he’s fixated on how awkward and insecure he feels that he can’t flag down the waiter (which waiter is currently standing 3 meters away in a loud restaurant, balancing plates, and receiving instructions from a manager, unbeknownst to the flustered guy), he is obviously going to make everyone at his table uncomfortable. He’s showing an inability to interpret body language, poor logic, and poor emotional regulation.

inherentlyvalued · 2023-07-15T23:46:27+00:00

My icks have been due, far and away, to bigotry, followed by thirst

SierraMistSoda · 2023-07-15T14:50:06+00:00

So don't do girly things? Women like men so don't cry on the first date because of mommy issues that is not attractive.

GlasgaAccentfurYanks · 2023-07-15T14:49:47+00:00

Yes. Women are tyrannical children from an emotional conduct point of view. This isn't a generalized view, it is fact.

Soggy_Head_4889 · 2023-07-15T15:27:12+00:00

I feel like the "ick" only really happens when she wasn't that into him in the first place and is just looking for a more definite reason to get rid of him. A girl isn't going to drop the love of her life because a waiter ignored him once, but a guy she's been seeing for a month that she isn't that sure about anyways? Yeah maybe.

upalse · 2023-07-15T16:01:12+00:00

Alternate interpretation: Feminists are obsessed with topping sissies, meanwhile normal women like normal men.

Outcast_Devil · 2023-07-16T08:28:48+00:00

The consequences will be brutal when most men figure out there's no guarantee of emotional support in a relationship. The US is already an extremely lonely and sociopathic society.

Imagine how bad it will be when most men realize that realistically they can only hope for a FWB 'relationship' and that conditional romantic love is a fairytale. The bright side is it will lower the birthrate and thus pollution

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2023-07-15T15:07:54+00:00

It's basically anything that reminds her of a woman she's repulsed by, which biologically makes sense, she wants a man with masculine traits just as men want women with feminine traits.

BornScallion54 · 2023-07-15T15:24:52+00:00

False. My icks came from when the guy treated servers poorly, when one said relationships shouldn’t be work, and when one said covid wasn’t real.

I’d love to know where you got this totally ridiculous list

PlaneWorld5287 · 2023-07-15T14:59:00+00:00

I've done all of those things but they don't care because I'm 6'0" 180 lbs lean with a good face.

Cethlinnstooth · 2023-07-16T04:14:04+00:00

That's one of the ways how women with a high need for a large gap between gendered behaviour get the ick. There's women who don't get the ick over that sort of thing. And it isn't the majority of the source of ick for all men. Maybe it is the majority of the times women have icked out on specific men personally. But other men get icked out on more for other reasons.

Incidentally...if any of you guys are a feminine behaving sort of guy seeking a highly feminine presenting sort of woman to disguise how feminine behaving you are...have a good hard look at that and think about the dynamics of that. She's presenting heavily feminine because she wants a man who also is excited by that gender difference. If you behave in ways a man who enjoys that gender difference sexually would have erased from his behaviour that's a sign you're really not into gender difference for its own sake. I really can't blame her for feeling ick. You're trying to deprive her of something she has worked towards and you have not. You're after her as proof of your non-existent masculinity. You want her to be the lie you tell the world about yourself. Ick.

Women however also have varying degrees and in varying ways get the ick over perceived gross health problems such as terrible acne, inability to follow societal norms of behaviour, callousness, imperceptiveness, incompetence, and usually a variety of minor stuff that comes out of who knows where such as minor physical features.

But this is a good thing, right? If you as an average man want a woman who thinks you're really special she's going to have to be inclined to discriminate against a lot of other similar boring average Joes isn't she? Short of you guys somehow managing to become special the most you can reasonably expect in the way of being seen to be special and different to other guys is some woman who is profoundly grateful you're a normal guy who doesn't have a stupid laugh, isnt callous, doesn't have a pointy nose and just seems generally competent...or whatever other list of things manages to avoid her getting ick.

Explain to me how the fuck a normal guy with no great specialness is expected to be seen as special and loved in that way so many say you wish to be loved unless women are going to discriminate against random things that vary between normal men? Your "she doesn't like how I giggle" is some other guy's "she loves me for my masculine composure and reserve"

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BunnyFlopped · 2023-07-15T14:16:37+00:00

I’m not really in the loop about why the ick is important, but I think a lot of this seems like it’s related to before people enter a relationship

It makes sense they would be more strict and be concerned about who fits what norms since relationships are social. It doesn’t mean it’s a good thing, and I do think having these concerns is problematic.

I think this just seems like second hand embarrassment not even disliking the person for these qualities.

blackwell4754 · 2023-07-15T15:10:34+00:00

I've always been of the opinion that women should never have to deal with the 'ick' factor associated with men being perceived as uncouth or unkept. We need to make it clear that while gender roles have their place, respect should be given regardless!

pianalto4088 · 2023-07-15T16:17:42+00:00

I think this comes down to confidence levels - women who have high self-esteem and self-value tend to be less affected by this 'ick' factor. It's also about learning to trust yourself and having good boundaries set around yourself, so that people don't overpower you in social situations.

Tevorino · 2023-07-15T17:28:37+00:00

On what is this even based? Some small number of women (who may or may not be verified to actually be women) who were observed saying something to this effect on social media?

Everyone has their own preferences and pet peeves. If something, over which you have little or no control, gives some woman "the ick", then accept that and move on to the next one.

Behaving in the manner that is generally understood to be attractive in men, to be best of your ability, is obviously a good idea as long as you can maintain it consistently. Based on your user name, I gather that this is something that might not come naturally to you and will require a lot of practice, but it can be learned.

That__EST · 2023-07-15T17:37:42+00:00

Can someone give me an example of a time when you (a man) has just been holding back tears over something petty because of fear that you'll lose respect?

Green-Quantity1032 · 2023-07-15T18:17:36+00:00

None of these matter if you can handle the situation well and/or are hot,

this is just you being high in trait neuroticism

armonilyss · 2023-07-15T19:19:43+00:00

kinda agree buts its more

tookiebird86 · 2023-07-16T03:58:15+00:00

what age of women is OP referring to? Sound like he’s describing the behavior of 17-year old girls…ijs lol

InvestigatorOwn5408 · 2023-07-16T16:45:37+00:00

Agree these things irk most women but I think it’s only human.

bedrockbloom · 2023-07-25T03:30:44+00:00

This is just hoes on twitter. Actual grown women like myself don’t get icks about a man crossing his legs. I get icks about hygiene and criminal behavior. Is there “cheese” coagulating on your teeth because you haven’t brushed them in a week? ICK. Did you have plenty of room to walk past me in a crowd but choose to grab me from behind and scoot your groin across my ass? ICK and I’m gonna talk shit about you to my friends. Do you make rape or human trafficking jokes? ICK. I’m not speaking to you, ever.

Edit: chasing baby tail tends to expose you to incredibly immature behavior like that. Leave the 18-20yos alone if you’re 30 and you’ll have less people reject you for not being 6’5”

Haunting_Afternoon62 · 2023-07-27T20:48:51+00:00

These have never given me the ick. I only get the ick if he masturbates too much (we can tell), if he's emotional but more like angry all the time...its scary, and of hes clingy

Title	Women mostly get “the ick” over perceived shortcomings of masculinity
Author	Johnny_Autism
Upvotes	228
Comments	395
Date	July 15, 2023 1:54 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/150cnot/women_mostly_get_the_ick_over_perceived/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-mostly-get-the-ick-over-perceived.1225387 https://theredarchive.com/post/1225387

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