What argument here has changed your mind?

GridReXX · 2021-06-16T14:02:46+00:00

When I was an adolescent, teen, maybe early 20s I assumed all men were having sex.

I assumed this because sex wasn’t constantly on my mind. It mostly crossed my mind when boys brought it up (jokes in class) or attempted to escalate a situation toward it.

So because boys always seemed to want sex, I assumed they were the ones having sex.

As I got older I realized that that isn’t necessarily true. PPD drilled that home.

QuenchlessGato · 2021-06-16T19:22:21+00:00

There were several women saying that an unattractive guy hitting on them is comparable to a big, aggressive gay hitting on you.

It made me realize that women are really, really disgusted by unattractive men.

iWatern · 2021-06-16T13:57:04+00:00

There are few incentives for straight, young women to live a modest lifestyle. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, you might as well embrace your privileges.

It's easy to armchair judge if you've never been tempted like that.

majani · 2021-06-16T14:33:22+00:00

I've learnt that a lot of dating arguments aren't as gendered as the manosphere makes them appear.

MasterTeacher123 · 2021-06-16T11:37:55+00:00

I have no problem approaching but Women get settled for all the time when the guy does the approaching too lol.

For the most part Women only approach guys who are clearly better than them in some way, so of course he’s gonna settle lol. You’re a 7 and he’s a 9, that’s the only reason you broke out of your shell to talk to him. It’s not because you approached him, it’s because he’s better than you regardless.

Unteryn · 2021-06-16T17:26:58+00:00

I forget who exactly changed my mind. But I used to hugely look down on female subs and to a lesser extent male doms. I changed my mind, though, and realized that people can´t help liking what they like, and that it is my problem that I´m the odd one out. Better for them to be honest than bottle it up.

dres_sler · 2021-06-16T21:51:00+00:00

Approaching has nothing to do with settling. It’s about confidence

Most women don’t approach because they are not confident enough or fear rejection.

_lemazaki · 2021-06-16T12:19:52+00:00

What discussions / arguments / posts changed your mind?

Not exactly changed my mind.

But to see a lot of men/boys that expect some kind of fairness in dating was mind blowing.

Infammo · 2021-06-16T11:51:47+00:00

I thought originally that women's feelings towards "alpha" men were basically how men felt towards the average woman. I get now that lust and attraction as a sensation are greatly diminished for women. It's not really that they desire top tier men but that their lack of desire for any men by default lets them appraise partners objectively and not be influenced by carnal or emotional impulses.

decoy88 · 2021-06-17T00:32:19+00:00

Some men are literally terrified at the thought of approaching women. I’ve experienced fear and approach anxiety plenty times but these guys have it on another level.

They have been so coddled by technology and sucking the teet of their screen-based overlords.

NarniaFox · 2021-06-16T11:38:58+00:00

I can't point out a certain argument or post, but I've changed my beliefs and attitudes to certain things.

I've become more aware about men's issues. They have terrible rates of suicide, alcoholism, drug usages, crime committing and homelessness. And I do think that these stats show some systemic issue, we're doing something wrong and large numbers of men suffer from it. Male gender role and conditioning them to play it harm both genders.

I've become more accepting towards the ideas of paper abortions and DNA testing. The first has its own issues and it should be thoroughly discussed and the second could potentially bring benefits to a whole society. I see nothing wrong in having a DNA list of all citizens, so we could not only establish correct fatherhood most of the time, but also look for donors, criminals, relatives etc.

Jakes1967 · 2021-06-16T11:42:31+00:00

What argument here has changed your mind?

It's nice to get a view of philosophies, especially male only, from the otherside.

There have been a few arguments on here that have changed my views, nothing drastic, but definitely taking in a different view, or approach.

Aldabruzzo · 2021-06-16T13:32:38+00:00

There was a discussion with exit_sandman about the relationship between sluthood and mental/emotional issues women have. I used to think a woman's sluthood caused the issues. After discussing and hashing it out with him and watching him hash it out with others, I'm persuaded that it's really the other way around: A lot of women have issues from childhood, and that causes them to become promiscuous to deal with or soothe the pain from the issues. At least, that's the causal arrow in most cases.

vial_of_music · 2021-06-16T13:47:36+00:00

I have become more aware of dating struggles for a man. There hasn’t been a specific argument per se, but like I can understand where frustration and anger come from and it’s not like I can speak for them since I’m not in their position but I just.. i get it more now.

sumilia · 2021-06-16T18:55:33+00:00

People mostly just seek confirmation bias.
And that's what I've observed here.

UrFoodMolestedMyNose · 2021-06-16T12:18:04+00:00

Never considered what dating is like for the average guy. Especially considering their higher sex drives

SebastianSio · 2021-06-16T14:04:33+00:00

Not really changed my mind but more like opened my eyes, was the post about men being disposable. That post was one of those things you live with on the daily without noticing until someone points it out.

Other than that most of the posts here are posted without anything to back them up other than "their experiences" "their logic" and statistics totally out of context.

Also, someone cares to explain what the post that changed OP mind means?

vial_of_music · 2021-06-16T20:41:44+00:00

I am convinced most women that men on this sub have interacted with in real life all have BPD. Who the fuck are these women and why are the crazy.

miketrance · 2021-06-16T11:31:20+00:00

I don’t agree that the “I don’t want to be settled for” excuse makes any sense because that same negative applies to men. I don’t want to be settled for either, so why do women get to declare that as a fair think but men can’t.

Doesn’t make sense and isn’t a valid argument.

AskingToFeminists · 2021-06-16T17:38:17+00:00

I'll give an example, this post changed my opinion on women approaching:

It’s better for the man to ask you on a date, asking a man increases the likelihood that he’s settling.

Used to think women were just lazy and selfish for refusing to approach, now I see that its easy for women to be settled for when they approach men.

how did that actually change your mind? any reason that can be used to justify that women shouldn't be the ones approaching can equally be used to justify why men shouldn't be approaching.

If women who approached are more likely to be settled for, then necessarily, men who approach are more likely to be settled for. If being settled for is not good, then why should men be more willing to have that happen to them?

It makes no sense.

DiscussionReader · 2021-06-17T10:37:58+00:00

This sub has taught me that women want sex much less than men. I already knew women had lower sex drives but I didn't know the diffeence was that big and that sex was such an irrelevant factor in women's lives. Sex sounds almost transactional when they talk about it.

John_Magnus · 2021-06-16T12:53:15+00:00

Not really from here, but the more I have interacted with women in real life, the more I have come to realize that a lot of them can be manipulative and some of them are pretty open as to what type of man they would go for, in spite of their own looks. One of them has no bio on her dating account and still gets tens, if not hundreds of requests.

2021-06-16T15:56:32+00:00

I used to be 'meh' about marriage, now I'm completely against it.

shadowcandee · 2021-06-16T12:12:59+00:00

I’ve learnt that America has a very strange culture regarding women “shit testing” men, I didn’t know what that term meant, til I read stuff here, had to ask, and I find it so different to how vulnerable and kind I’ve seen women treat their men or anyone they’re trying to date over here, as they genuinely want a connection and hate games or they themselves, are the ones being played by men. I obviously don’t know every woman in my own country to know if they shit test or not but anyone I’ve asked is completely clueless about it here.. This realisation has made me sympathise with men more as I was a bit naive, thinking men are mostly the “players” or manipulators

There’s actually an article here from another Australian who was completely clueless to this terminology and was just trying to have a convo with this guy and he simply accused her of shit testing him.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/13/online-dating-wandering-into-the-manosphere

rft24 · 2021-06-16T15:46:38+00:00

i didn’t realize height was such a big deal until i started frequenting this sub lmfao, never once in my life did i consider that a man’s height mattered.

i also didn’t believe in the concept of af/bb at one point. i do believe it happens now, but i certainly don’t see it happening to the degree the men here act like it does (at least, not in my generation).

one thing i can think of off the top of my head: i realized, after reading about the madonna-whore complex and spending time here, that men care a lot more about a woman’s sexual past than i thought. i came to the conclusion that you would be hard-pressed to find a man who doesn’t have a madonna-whore complex to some degree, even the liberal guys. the liberal guys are just more open minded and have a much higher tolerance for “slutty behavior,” but even they have a line set somewhere that makes the difference between a madonna and a whore.

i knew men cared about sexual pasts to some degree, because i grew up about surrounded by men and have had many male friends throughout my life; and it’s not like i never noticed how they’d talk about their girlfriends vs their hookups or how they’d talk about groupies/bitches/“sluts”vs how they’d talk about “good girls.” they just didn’t say it with the same kind of vitriol the dudes here do lol, and i’m sure they were censoring themselves since they were usually in mixed company.

i think the men here have “red pilled” me; meaning, they’ve made me realize a lot of things about men that i didn’t think about before. my opinion of men as a collective was super positive before i started frequenting this sub.

EleanorAbernathyPhD · 2021-06-16T12:19:26+00:00

Im way more sympathetic towards men issues now. I never thought men put so much of their self worth on being desired/ sex intimacy. I also learned that TRP is more right than wrong in women nature (thers still some stuff i dont agree with but now i lean red way more than i used to)

PurplePill_Throwaway · 2021-06-16T11:29:09+00:00

Women and men expect different things from each other in relationships and that’s okay.

justnotherthrow35 · 2021-06-16T19:20:37+00:00

Honestly my opinions of men have only worsened from this sub. I generally respect the men in my life but the shit men on here say about women, in particular the massive generalizations that get circlejerked back and forth and then heavily upvoted, really makes me shy away from the opposite sex, I'm convinced the majority of men simply don't see women as people. Women can suck too so maybe I'll just become a nun and adopt children to fulfill my interpersonal needs.

Ask_For_Cock_Pics · 2021-06-16T19:20:26+00:00

Similar to women going after only the top 20% of men, men often ignore average and below average women. Ugly wholesome women are more likely to grow old and become cat ladies than used up post wall sluts.

Ralman23 · 2021-06-16T22:00:33+00:00

Probably a lot of times on how men and women think differently about the other sex and this sub expanded a lot of that for me. I used to think men and women like to think in generalities and that was ok, but now I see that sometimes that can lead into both sexes getting into bad ideas about each other. (Important note: Doesn’t have to be RP/FDS ideas, just any sub that sways too one side over the other).

ivy176 · 2021-06-17T15:36:31+00:00

I feel like it's just endless posts about women all being young hot babes who hate good guys and I just can't relate to it as a mid 30s woman who is married and never had casual sex in my life. On this sub, I'm constantly told I don't exist or I'm some kind of anomaly. Reddit is just like a different universe of people compared to my life and the people in it. I've mentioned topics from reddit subs like this to my husband and occasionally his friends or people I know well at work, and everyone's just like "oh come on, that's just like a small group of weirdos who'd think that" and I'm like no guys, this is like what young men are buying into these days and it's a LOT of people, things are really changing. They're like nahhhh you're just finding weirdos in these dark corners. They won't believe me

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-06-16T12:26:19+00:00

Used to think women were just lazy and selfish for refusing to approach, now I see that its easy for women to be settled for when they approach men.

Being settled for is not an issue for a guy in this age of Chads and Brads?

Twice as many women as men lose interest in sex in an LTR.

I would say men need to be more careful than women in regards to being settled for.

iloafbread · 2021-06-16T17:52:31+00:00

Any hardcore RP tactics/manipulation because AWALT.

Yes, manipulation will work on some women. Just like being a bitch will work on some men.

No RP guy will answer how these tactics work for a LT healthy and loving relationship. Even if I know the answer. Change my mind.

blue_dandelions · 2021-06-16T11:58:16+00:00

Men care about virginity/n count more than I though.

Never ask a man out/pursue them, they don’t respect it.

Paper abortions should be a thing.

Male loneliness is an epidemic, they need more support.

Women are equally abusive physically.

superlurkage · 2021-06-16T18:02:51+00:00

I used to think a good number of these guys really were rejected.

Nope! They just hate people, socializing and having friends. They absolutely see no point in relationships and human interaction

Zcuzz · 2021-06-16T12:10:04+00:00

If a man is settling, that means the chick is dating UP. What a dumbass argument. One of the hottest chicks I ever dated approached ME. I never would've even considered approaching her.

Seriously, that's one the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Anxious_Economist_65 · 2021-06-16T12:49:54+00:00

Not necessarily changed my mind, but the blue pill in me truly want to believe what this one female user on this sub is saying, I think it's u/TakeThePinkPill.

She has talked about about what life is like for lesser females, and I truly want to believe it and have my mind changed, but it's so incredibly difficult to do so given how OLD/social media completely changed the game for females. Even lesser females are drowning in options these days because of OLD/social media, it's insane.

Naus1987 · 2021-06-16T18:07:04+00:00

The debates let me see that people are different and unique, and that while genders follow certain trends — not everyone is a slave to their society programming. And everyone has the potential to be awesome

rilakkumkum · 2021-06-16T23:55:55+00:00

Related to you post, I started feeling that way after being the one to approach guys more often than not. I stopped approaching (cause obviously I got a boyfriend now) but I hated having to wait around. It seemed no one was interested in me because they just never even considered me a possiblity, which in turn still means I’d have to approach first in order to open up that gate. Smh

majani · 2021-06-16T12:05:39+00:00

[permanently deleted]

FreierSteinkopf · 2021-06-16T11:39:31+00:00

The whole topic of men technically being at a greater risk of danger but women being more fearful. I thought it was stupid how women feel threatend eventhough statistics point in a different direction. What won me over is that I don't and can't know how a woman feels due to different hormones, brain structure and abilities.

DrnknParrot · 2021-06-16T21:48:34+00:00

I realised that the manosphere argument that women basically want to freeload off of a man's labour, while doing the 'easy' job of staying at home looking after kids, is basically class based.

As a middle class woman, I can't imagine anyone choosing staying at home to deal with the tedium of household labour and childcare, over having the independence and stimulation of working outside of the home. However, when I think of work, my class based lens has me imagining a meaningful career, with civilized co-workers.

From the perspective of a working class or lower middle class man, who may be working a tedious, physically demanding job with a bully of a boss, the idea of staying home with children might seem positively delightful in comaprison.

I realised that when we argue about who has it better, we're often comparing apples with oranges. I only ever get in these arguments with anonymous strangers on the internet, and never in real life, because the men I interact with in real life, are generally middle class as well, and therefore share the same perspective as me.

NameGiver0 · 2021-06-16T15:36:10+00:00

I’ve yet to see a woman give an argument.

It’s just as hominems, strawman fallacies, and anecdotal evidence. Worse they don’t even seem to realize that that’s all they’re doing. They don’t try to convince anyone, they try to “win” a verbal fight and convince themselves of what makes them feel better.

I_sort_by_new_fam · 2021-06-16T17:09:20+00:00

some people are great slutshamers and too worried of n count.

SaBahRub · 2021-06-17T00:19:00+00:00

I used to think that men were upset about valid minority behaviors and issues (cases of unfair custody/accusations, rigid gender roles, male rape, emotional constipation, male isolation, etc)

Nope.

Settling, something that pretty much every mature, functional adult does, is the big fat bogeyman of the manosphere. Give me a break

Smooth_Potato_4014 · 2021-06-16T11:47:11+00:00

Ages ago someone posted a study which has shown that facial attractiveness is 50/50. So there was that.

Used to think women were just lazy and selfish for refusing to approach, now I see that its easy for women to be settled for when they approach men.

Is this facetious?

BruddaMSK · 2021-06-16T18:06:11+00:00

None. I come online to express my own opinion and don't care what others say.

Legitimate_Turn2280 · 2021-06-16T18:14:54+00:00

That logic changed your opinion? Really? Replace women with men and men with women. Does it still make sense?

PrincessaRusalka · 2021-06-16T21:51:14+00:00

That expecting a man to pay for anything is a red flag. I come from a culture where the man should make the first move, pay for the food, and show interest more than the woman. I can see how the guy would feel like an ATM but paying for one plate of food shows you are genuinely interested.

So I am undecided on this one...

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poppy_blu · 2021-06-16T23:00:20+00:00

I won’t say I 100% agree but i have heard some good arguments for financial abortion and mandatory paternity testing.

Goodthingstartssmall · 2021-06-17T00:04:57+00:00

I've always been aware of women's problems. Despite thinking most overdo and overblow these i have taken them into account by default when dating. Always suggested public spaces, tried to slowly escalate and give her time etc.

The only new thing that PPD brought me was making me aware that folks like FDS and PinkPill exists.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-06-17T01:22:25+00:00

I'm not sure if I've ever had a good enough argument made to change my mind, and if so, it wasn't something very important, obviously.

I'm curious though about yours. Why did that post about women approaching change your mind? The same could be said that men who approach are more likely to be settled for, but that point seems to be ignored for some reason. There are many reasons women don't approach, but being settled for isn't any of the reasons at the top.

Khanluka · 2021-06-17T08:15:59+00:00

None of this post really sound like anyone really changed there view

PM_ME_STRIPPERS · 2021-06-19T03:48:00+00:00

I dont think anything here has changed my mind, but i will agree its opened my mind more to peoples perspectives, views, beliefs even if they are wrong.

EfficientComputer5 · 2021-06-19T14:52:18+00:00

I haven't seen any. I'm not particularly bone headed so I don't believe I haven't seen any because I failed to make sense out any. It's reddit.

I've seen maybe 2 or 3 threads in comments I've agreed with and thought of as better opinions then my own. But almost all of reddit users are highly toxic imo.

BlisssfulHoney111 · 2021-06-16T13:28:14+00:00

None.

RDelbson · 2021-06-17T00:58:58+00:00

Nothing. No argument has changed my mind here.

I came here first many years ago hoping to have my mind changed. I very, very frequently engaged in debates. Put time and effort in my posts and comments. Tried very hard to have honest debates. I was ridiculed, mocked, and castigated. I left this subreddit after spending a couple of years here.

Only very recently, say 5 months ago, I decided to come back because circumstances in my life have changed, and I believe it was prudent for me to try again to engage in debate about these topics.

Just like last time, no one has changed my mind. I've only been further pushed to the right.

And so, I've come to the conclusion once again, that this subreddit is doing nothing for me, and that it is time to leave once again.

Title	What argument here has changed your mind?
Author	Exciting_East7365
Upvotes	160
Comments	747
Date	June 16, 2021 11:21 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/o12jmp/what_argument_here_has_changed_your_mind/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-argument-here-has-changed-your-mind.784335 https://theredarchive.com/post/784335

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