Women harp endlessly about entitlement and men feeling “owed” but in reality most people expect to be able get someone similar to them in all areas and framing this as “entitlement” is a deflection from the real issue

Purple_Cruncher_123 · 2024-05-14T18:28:10+00:00

The assertion that “your level is what you can get” or that “the market determines your level” is further nonsense.

Nonsense relative to what exactly? Nobody determines their own attractiveness to others. You can set your own value to yourself, but if nobody else agrees, then you get no play. That's just the way of things.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2024-05-14T18:50:28+00:00

The problem is, there's no objective rating system. I asked four or five accounts ago if you could provide a method of determining levels, and there aasn't one.

Refusetosay12 · 2024-05-14T21:32:18+00:00

Assessing your own attractiveness and asking out women you think are attractive and which you think you match well with isn't entitlement. Not getting dates and being frustrated is just that, frustration, and asking the sky or anyone listening why you can't date someone you feel well suited for is also not eveidence of entitlement. If you get insistant about who or the type of woman you should be able to attract, that is eveidence of a sense of entitlement, which seems to be what you're doing.

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-05-14T18:42:59+00:00

It’s fair & reasonable to want a partner with whatever standard you desire (normal body weight, 6ft+ etc).

The problem is you’re not guaranteed to get it just because you want it. This human being that you desire also has wants too and you may not be what they want. That is also fair and reasonable.

Relationships are formed because 2 ppl want each other. You have to make that person want you. If you can’t do that then you get nothing and move on.

It’s like someone wanting to get into Harvard. Yeah they can want that but does Harvard want that person? It has to be mutual.

I agree There are definitely some entitled women that exist.

fucksiclepizza · 2024-05-14T19:42:19+00:00

People want what they want, if they don't want you then well, sucks to be you. Just because someone thinks they're on someone's level or similarly attractive doesn't mean they are, nor does it mean they'll both automatically find each other attractive.

Commercial_Tea_8185 · 2024-05-14T18:30:49+00:00

You cant control what other people are attracted to, and theres no rhetorical debate that will change that.

Most people dont go around ranking themselves and others in the extremely regimented way you guys do on here

krackedy · 2024-05-14T18:26:08+00:00

You can expect anything you want. It doesn't change reality. If a woman you think is your level doesn't find you attraction there's nothing wrong with that and nothing you can do about it.

I don't see how being allowed to expect something really changes anything.

jazzmaster1992 · 2024-05-14T21:05:51+00:00

in reality most people expect to be able to get someone similar to them in all areas

I'll grant you that having someone who feels like an equal is not an unreasonable ask. But you also have to understand that "someone similar to them in all areas" is pretty picky and exacting. There is a difference between wanting someone who you have the right things in common with you, similar values, and compliments or even challenges you elsewhere, and someone who is basically an exact version of yourself but the opposite (or same sex).

And I hate to say this, but there is definitely some kind of issue with what men expect in dating. Call it entitlement or call it something else, but I've engaged in multiple threads here where guys basically blame everybody else because nobody gave them the magic formula to get laid or find the love of their life. Some guys will call women "liars" and accuse them of giving shitty advice because when they say "I like a man who dresses well", they don't have women lined up to fuck them because they put on a shirt that fits them. It seems like a good many men who find themselves in discussions or subs like this one, want the world to basically give them everything they need in order to get their shit together so that they can avoid doing any of the actual work, or inevitably make a mistake. Then, they get pissy because they weren't born a "Chad" and can't just go outside and find women who want to sleep with them with zero effort.

The reality is that the overwhelming majority of us have to put in some kind of work to make any aspects of our lives better, from dating and relationships to career and financial goals. And nobody is ever going to have the exact answers you need to fix your own damn life. I want to continue to empathize with other men on this subject, but it gets taxing sometimes when all some of them wanna do is whine that women won't date them and blame all these external things for their lack of success. It seems like they are just bitter and envious of people who seem to just be born with an easier life, not realizing that even those people often have to put in work to make themselves as attractive as they are. Chad didn't come out of the womb with muscles, good social skills and a high paying career; he may or may not have had an "easy" time acquiring those but it's something pretty much any man alive who isn't terminally ill and past the age of 45 can do, and certainly not out of reach for the average reddit dude who is in his early 20s and perfectly normal looking.

At the end of the day, when you try to give people any advice and all they do whine and complain that it's not fair because Chad takes all the women anyways, it does start to seem like certain people just envy others who have it better because they want it to happen for them without them working for it. You may not call that entitlement but it sure seems like it sometimes.

gntlbastard · 2024-05-14T19:07:41+00:00

Are women entitled - yes

Are men entitled - yes

What people need to learn is that walking away is often times the easiest and best answer.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-05-14T19:04:23+00:00

The question that you need to ask yourself is

“Why would that woman want to date me, specifically, instead of all of the other options, including the option not to date anyone at all?”

Because you think she’s “similar to you” isn’t a valid reason…

So, OP, what is your “match” like and why would / should she choose you?🤔

Charming_Parking_302 · 2024-05-14T19:10:17+00:00

Just because you want something doesn't mean you are going to get it. That's life. Please move on

SmallSituation6432 · 2024-05-14T18:57:20+00:00

Those assertions are meant to speak in a direct manor that focuses on results, you know, the thing dudes here are constantly insisting they want and is the correct way to view things.

If you don't want that fine, but it has been literally what men asked for and given for quite a long time. Blunt, direct, and doesn't care about your feelings.

YveisGrey · 2024-05-14T22:20:40+00:00

I usually hear the men saying “your level is what you can get”

Nevertheless I think your premise is based on a flawed assumption that a man and a woman have the same value on the sex market. This is where you are just wrong. A woman who is not fat is going to be desired more by many more men than a man who is not fat would be desired by women. So as a man you have to be more than just “not fat” to get the slim woman.

Eastoss · 2024-05-15T09:30:06+00:00

A lot of people on here tend to be like "It's fair for me to expect equal or more than me" all the while claiming those who expect equal are entitled. But in real life it's really just women talking that way.

The assertion that “your level is what you can get” or that “the market determines your level” is further nonsense.

It's nonsense not for the reason you push. Because relationship dynamic can balance what seems to be unbalanced. You may land a hot girl but she might require you to do a lot more work to keep her around, and you have sex less frequently than if you were more attractive.

And then there's the problem that people aren't really good at evaluating what their equal is, and that not everything can be transposed 1:1. Fat level might be easily transposable, even tho women would claim stuff like "but women are meant to be fat" and justify it with all the gymbro who date morbidly obese chicks.... But women's salary doesn't transpose to men's salary, despite they tend to think that it makes them valuable, it doesn't.

shadowrangerfs · 2024-05-14T19:16:03+00:00

Yes. There are many entitled women. Avoid them at all cost.

You are not entitled to an in shape woman just because you are in shape. But you're almost certain to be able to attract one if you are.

You are not obligated to date a fat chick just like women aren't entitled to date fat dudes.

However, "Your level is whatever you can get", is 100% true. "The market determines your level" is 100% true. The market can change and does. But if all you can attract is 5s, then you're a 5.

toasterchild · 2024-05-14T19:36:26+00:00

You can expect whatever you want but when you start acting like your expectations mean something that's entitlement. Like you can expect your house to be worth 1.5 million that doesn't mean anyone will buy at that price.

TopEntertainment4781 · 2024-05-14T22:58:48+00:00

You are in a market right now. People may choose to marry, choose to just date, or choose to be single. People aren’t getting artificially pressed into marriages because they are denied education or access to jobs.

Pretty close to a free wheeling market.

And your value is what it is.

You don’t like it and want a skinny girl. Oh well. I was below a five in high school for a lot of reasons. No one wanted to date me either. Life sucks.

Glammed up in my twenties. Probably sit at a seven now for my age range.

That’s life.

We aren’t widgets. We aren’t cars. We have feelings, hopes, and dreams. You don’t pay x and get the title because the person you want - male or female - has thoughts, too. They can decide to marry or not or pick some else.

Men are not interchangeable. I didn’t measure each man I dated against some logical matrix of height versus salary versus dick size. Instead I engaged in a fluid analysis of emotional response, how we worked together, whether we had chemistry, similar goals.

And hanging your hat on pure external characteristics is stupid. My husband’s weight has gone up and gone down. If I picked for body weight I’d have been screwed. But I picked for so much more.

Stop treating people as widgets.

xxTheMagicBulleT · 2024-05-15T05:26:50+00:00

Agreed. But you can ask or demand anything. If you're ever worthy of getting it is a whole other story.

But it's easy to stomp out one side's preferences over another. But just like any business deal the more you fulfill the preferences of the other side the more bargaining power you have.

Why many people don't seem to understand it's easy to demand all kinds of things. But it has a lot to do with what you offer in return if you are worthy of getting a type of value and that goes both ways. So many that never get it is just cause they often don't bring enough value for people that want to pay that price tag they demand in return.

That's completely fine. But can make a lot of people have unhappy outcomes. Cause you don't look at what the other side values or needs. So you have no bargaining power. Cause you try and stomp the wants on the other side out.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-05-14T21:08:52+00:00

Confused as to how someone’s general dimensions are supposed to translate into compatibility and mutual sexual attraction, OP.

There are plenty of men who are tall and thin like I am, but any one or all of them could be a chain smoking, puppy-kicking, paranoid conspiracy theorist who suffers from OCD. There has never been a day in my life where I looked at a man across a room and thought: he’s perfect for me.

How do you figure that someone’s physical appearance translates to partner?

Cethlinnstooth · 2024-05-14T19:35:15+00:00

Maybe she's just not feeling it, dude.

schrodingerscat94 · 2024-05-14T20:14:05+00:00

Bruh. People have always talked about compromises when it comes to finding potential mates. I don't know why is it different today. It's almost statistically impossible to find the perfect partner. In fact, most people don't really know what is perfect for them. The trick is to figure out what exactly are deal-breakers for you and negotiate the rest. Some people are not okay with obese partners and some are. Move on if you don't like what you see.

VWGUYWV · 2024-05-14T22:30:26+00:00

Average men are sad that currently average women are openly unattracted to them and prefer to pursue above average men that likely won't commit to them. Then the average women return with baggage and high expectations and still no real attraction. Then society tells these men they are assholes for noticing and caring.

A lot of this can be explained simply by testosterone. Due to higher testosterone, men are more attracted to women, on average, than women are to men. Average men are legitimately turned on by average women, as are men that are above average. So, the market forces favor women here and they can easily attempt to shoot out of their league. The lower female testosterone levels mean that it takes a stronger stimulus to get their engines revved. This is why if a man goes to the mall, he will see many women he is attracted to but women maybe one in the entire mall.

At its base, it honestly can't be helped, it just is. However, women knowing this might help guide them to make better life choices. Like, no Becky, Joe isn't ugly (he's average, just like you) and Chad isn't going to marry you. So play your cards as an average woman the best you can, especially if you want to marry and have kids one day. And don't make your male equivalent and husband feel worse than he maybe already does.

Mindless-Ad-57 · 2024-05-14T19:20:10+00:00

Being obese isn't the only thing that makes you unattractive. An obese woman may be your looks-match due to your face + height. If you can only land fat chicks then you are most likely below average, you just haven't accepted this yet.

superlurkage · 2024-05-14T19:06:08+00:00

Here we go again

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/E5KkTfTPET

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/XFu2QXSNkJ

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/HKzcvkN8Sx

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/XVQOF5t3UQ

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/uTh8C6uIXc

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/qPHe5Lg7E3

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/3DVHL2wHUT

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/8rYlyAg5fg

If you can’t get an 8, you aren’t an 8

Clementinequeen95 · 2024-05-14T18:40:00+00:00

The unfortunate thing is most men who consider themselves “average” are not average at all. Far below it. Honestly the majority of men I’ve encountered see themselves as far more attractive and interesting than they are.

NJFlowerchild · 2024-05-14T21:34:29+00:00

You're struggling to find a single mentally ill 30's woman that's overweight, but not obese, and works in a menial job? I find that hard to believe.

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Demasii · 2024-05-14T23:07:03+00:00

It is not unreasonable whatsoever for men who are not obese to expect to be able to find a woman of a similar body type.

SMV/RMV are market value. Market value changes depending on the level of scarcity. There might be more obese women than obese men in a society with a 1:1 even sex ratio. Assuming each person pair up, some non-obese men will pair up with obese women.

the_calibre_cat · 2024-05-15T00:08:38+00:00

that's not what they're insisting is "entitlement", a reciprocal relationship by definition isn't entitlement, but a cooperative, mutually contributing arrangement. few (though some - everyone see that mother's day choosing beggar on the front page?) women would object to that as "entitlement".

Lastly, anyone who has ever rejected a woman knows they can be equally hostile and entitled.

haha lol yeah - but not usually dangerous

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-05-15T12:39:28+00:00

It is not unreasonable whatsoever for men who are not obese to expect to be able to find a woman of a similar body type.

it is if theyre not attractive. this weird recent notion that just being in shape is some kind of male attractiveness absent all other attractive traits that somehow means you will get an fit girl is bizarre and a false premise

OkProfessional9405 · 2024-05-14T22:17:18+00:00

I think that's the nature of the redpill. Men who are blue pilled were taught to by kind, polite, work hard and you'll find a good woman to partner with to start a family. When they find out that's bullshit they are understandably shocked that they were lied to their entire lives.

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2024-05-14T21:54:39+00:00

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Professional_Chair28 · 2024-05-14T22:52:43+00:00

That’s not why we say men are “entitled”. It’s not in response to a man’s standards or preferences.

It’s about some men feeling they’re owed sex in return for displaying the bare minimum of common decency. We say no one’s entitled to sex because that’s quite literally true.

ilovegaryb99givmore · 2024-05-15T03:33:11+00:00

“Harp” it’s always so interesting to see how old and charged manosphere male’s language becomes when they enter it.

“Women get upset about rejection too!1!1!1!’ Never at the same level these violent males react to rejections. Face it, for every ‘mean’ woman her male counterpart is, by all means, worse.

MistyMaisel · 2024-05-14T19:22:49+00:00

I mean, it's unreasonable if he can't actually do that tho, right? I mean facts, feelings, Ben Shapiro, amiright? If you can get it, perfectly rational and therefore reasonable. If you can't...not rational, not reasonable. And yeah, you thinking because of some sort of weird arbitrary "matchy matchy" rules set you should be with a woman of a similar body type is entitlement.

On what stone tablet is it written "he who hath low weight shall have a hot mama with low weight?" I'm really curious where you guys get from that is reasonable. I'm just not seeing how pointing this out is nonsense. It seems like the most factual and evident thing in the world.

I dunno about equally, but, we can certainly be unpleasant.

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Flightlessbirbz · 2024-05-14T21:27:30+00:00

Problem is there are so many factors other than your weight that influence your market value. Not all non-obese people are attractive or desirable partners.

Your level is what you can get like it or not, yes you are allowed to be frustrated, and yes, women can be hostile and entitled about it too.

Ok-Supermarket-6747 · 2024-05-15T05:43:38+00:00

Nor is it unreasonable for women who come from families who are not dirt poor to desire a man of similar upbringing. So let’s just segregate based on wealth class and women can spend their time chasing money instead of entertaining men they clearly are not on level with. 🫶🥂 Like what is Chad doing here anyway???

THEbeautifuLIE · 2024-05-15T12:16:05+00:00

Dating STANDARDS & PREFERENCES can be as astronomically-high or as cavernously-low as any individual sets for themselves & (in my opinion) should never be questioned by another. It’s an inalienable right. Dating EXPECTATIONS can be seen as objectively-ludicrous & the market will ALWAYS tell you whether or not yours are reasonable or even moderately attainable.

There is definitely ”some” entitlement among some women & some men. In the interests of sincerity to the OP: you rarely see an overweight male who doesn’t dress particularly well, isn’t particularly attractive & isn’t particularly mid-to-high-earning with a laundry list of “elite” attributes his potential mate MUST have; especially with no receipts showing he has ever been able to land anyone of that caliber. There are, quite literally, thousands of videos of overweight-to-obese, “not particularly attractive” women displaying attitudes/behaviors that would turn most men away claiming they won’t settle for anything less than a 6’2, 6-figure, 6-pack man. . .& he better be good in the sack, lol. Her dating STANDARDS & PREFERENCES are perfectly fine. Her dating EXPECTATIONS are catastrophic.

[[sidebar: I think TikToXIC & InstagraTIFICATION encourages women to compete w/each other by by professing publicly how rare they are and/or how high their standards are and/or how many men “CAN’T” have them b/c they are so special, etc. There’s a whole lot more “fantasy fun” & female competition going on than how most would think/behave in reality.]]

shroomflies · 2024-05-15T16:21:28+00:00

I'm over here wondering how you guys can talk about human interaction like it's a stock market exchange with a straight face, while expecting reasonable people to ever take you seriously. The irony of this all is astounding to me. Is this what I(41M) have to look forward to in the dating world?

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2024-05-14T22:06:39+00:00

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Comeino · 2024-05-14T22:29:24+00:00

You are not entitled to something you feel entitled too.

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2024-05-14T22:12:36+00:00

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bradlite · 2024-05-14T20:18:07+00:00

Women get to have sex with who they want, but even if she’s a 9+ she’s going to struggle mightily to land a total package guy.

Girls start by thinking their smv is their rmv, and get a real slap in the face with reality when they decide they want a relationship. What women say they deserve and what they end up with for ltr, will almost always be 2 different things, or not near their expectations.

I laugh when a single girl starts talking about her checklist and what she “deserves” just because those guys had sex with you before or dated you for a few weeks doesn’t mean much. Guys aren’t delusional like women, because the girls you date and have sex with, that’s your league. Girls can offer their body and get way out of her league.

For sure, women usually flip tf out and can become violent and threaten you when you break up or try and ghost them.

Unhappy_Offer_1822 · 2024-05-14T22:23:58+00:00

i guess you could always just ignore people who act like that.

spacekiller69 · 2024-05-15T04:10:56+00:00

Men and women find different body types attractive. Obese is the worst for both but overweight men do better than underweight men while for women it's the opposite because women want men bigger and stronger than themselves and vice versa. Most men are also fat and weak so if underweight men gain 20 to 30 pounds of muscle and be lean they become a rare commodity in high demand like women with a hourglass figure.

Anti_Thing · 2024-05-15T04:43:34+00:00

All arenas? 🤔 Would it really be reasonable for me to expect to be able to find a non-fat 20-something autistic introverted Hungarian born-again Christian right-wing virgin?

Sadsad0088 · 2024-05-15T04:56:33+00:00

It’s not unreasonable, but people’s perception of themselves and others is based on who you have around

apresonly · 2024-05-15T21:17:27+00:00

its absolutely unreasonable to feel entitled to a partner.

no one has to date at all.

waffleznstuff30 · 2024-05-15T22:46:03+00:00

Dating and relationships aren't fair.

You can logic or make fair feelings. They are irrational and make no sense whatsoever. You aren't factoring in things like types, life experiences, and the individual variable.

So say you have average man hitting up average woman. Average woman may prefer skinny scrawny nerdy men. While average guy is stocky blue collar looking man. Even though they are both average people on paper you have to factor in things like preferences types.

We aren't granted some number over our heads that says this is your pool stay within that. Most people want the best possible partner. It doesn't work like that.

SoooDisappointed · 2024-05-16T00:05:03+00:00

The real issue on the dating imbalance are the simps, not women. But you do well in taking a lesson on the lack of empathy women exhibit towards the subject, which will be specially useful for when you get to a position where empathy is expected on a woman's issue, so you can think before tricking yourself into getting overdosed by "empathetic thoughts". Also, by keeping your standards instead of settling you are already doing your part against the problem. In my case, I am genuinely attracted by chubby women but I would never settle for a men-hating one, which I think is a much more fundamental standard that men should have to themselves and the true starting point for a change(supposing it's possible; I don't think it is in a collective level, at least not in a world where a woman post the word "sex" and then have to make another post asking for guys to stop sending dick pics and overall simping in their DMs.).

If the "game" is unfair and frustrating, just don't participate on any of it. Take a pill to regulate your sex drive as you wish and focus on other aspects of happiness.

obviousredflag · 2024-05-16T15:16:44+00:00

It is not unreasonable whatsoever for men who are not obese to expect to be able to find a woman of a similar body type.

No, it's not unreasonable. But it's also not guaranteed. It's a market, no matter how much you want to deny it. On AVERAGE people get similar partners, regarding a range of characteristics. Assortative mating. But that isn't true for the individual.

When you think about yourself and deserving someone equal in all areas, do you factor in autism and narcissism?

Grand-Source-3593 · 2024-05-18T02:16:01+00:00

667th comment

Individual_Speech_10 · 2024-05-18T03:55:21+00:00

I agree. By that same token, women that have jobs, don't have kids, and live by themselves should be able to date men in the same position.

Arthur_Copenhauer · 2024-05-15T01:32:29+00:00

Women have limited empathy for average and below-average man's struggles; it's just the way it is

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2024-05-15T04:11:40+00:00

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welcometothejl · 2024-05-15T08:49:21+00:00

Women shouldn't talk about entitlements when they're the group receiving more money from the government than they pay in taxes.

Expensive-Tea455 · 2024-05-15T06:55:08+00:00

You expecting to get those things does not mean that anyone is actually required to give you any of those things tho so… 🌝

Also no it’s not nonsense to say that your level is what you can get… don’t you guys say this to women all the time?? So why is it all of sudden incorrect when we say it back to men?

If the hot, thin women you want never want you back, then that’s not your league and you need to either lower your standards or figure out how to make yourself attractive to those women that you want🤷🏽‍♀️

RubyDiscus · 2024-05-15T15:58:24+00:00

The issue is expecting anything in general is entitlement.

Just because you have a need doesn't mean others have to fill it for you.

UnhappyInevitable680 · 2024-05-14T18:38:26+00:00

The average adult man is not entitled at all. Most men I know are happy to have someone on their level that reciprocates interest. Men are so simple, I don’t understand why it’s even being debated for men to be the fixers of the dating crisis. The shite outlier men are always focused on and treated as the average.

escalon776 · 2024-05-14T18:41:35+00:00

What’s not talked about enough is how entitled women are to men in general. They feel entitled to our utility, protection and they absolutely cannot handle being rejected.

What a woman can’t do to you physically, she makes up for socially. And female assertive mating is so mismatched it’s insane. I remember in college this ugly fat girl tried to throw dirt on my name because I didn’t take her virginity at a house party my roommate threw before graduation( right before covid started) here I am, 10 percent body fat, long thick and healthy dreads, and yet even some of the other girls thought I was rude for not taking one for the team. FOH I know what I can attract.

You’ll catch me living in Antarctica dodging polar bears before I end up like another one of these dudes that’s fit dating a fat girl. If you genuinely ask women, they’ll say a woman with BMI of 32 is equal to a man’s of 23 who has visible abs and muscle definition. Makeup, social media and every other artificial enhancement makes these hoes delusional beyond reproach and I honestly have no problem with them “staying single” because if you read between the lines you’ll know they’re just another pass around who’s stuck in the concubine hierarchy until she ropes along some poor beta male who’s never seen genuine desire before, marries him and cheats on him with a scumbag like myself, but the game is the game.

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