CMV: Men want women more then women want men, and that’s why we don’t care about your standards.

2022-12-12T06:45:58+00:00

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buntyisbest · 2022-12-12T02:37:40+00:00

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Gtedx · 2022-12-12T08:49:31+00:00

This ‘’gender war’’ shit is honestly so pathetic.

Glass_Bucket · 2022-12-12T00:02:08+00:00

Now that women can become educated, earn money, and own property

If women can earn money then why is a man's income still so important?

meshflesh40 · 2022-12-12T01:34:15+00:00

I like this level of honesty from women. Its truly refreshing.

A lot of women are employing the same strategy. Get educated, earn money, buy their own house.

Then hold out for the perfect man or choose to remain single forever.

The sad truth is that every woman wants the same "top shelf" man. So mathematically...theres going to be alot of single women/single moms in the 2040s since theres not enough top shelf men for every woman.

Not trying to guilt you. But thats where we are headed as a society in the future. Frustrated lonely single men and women

O well. At least we can all take responsibility and accept that we did it to our selves. No complaining

CasperElshao · 2022-12-12T00:00:21+00:00

I have no problem being single for long periods of time if that’s what’s needed. I will never accept a narcissistic or overly masculine girl, a girl who had the hoe phase or the hot girl summers, or an overweight girl because she’ll make me miserable in the long run.

If she’s not gonna add value to my life then what’s the point?

The kind of men you’re talking about, the simps, the cucks, etc. are sad creatures and it’s because of them that women think they hold all the cards.

I hate to say it but at the end of the day, most women with delusional standards will end up unhappy. Either alone, not with the guy she wants, or for recreational use for the guys she does want.

wwwArchitect · 2022-12-12T01:35:59+00:00

This is all true. It’s also true that many women are disproportionately attracted to hot deadbeats and / or shitty, unavailable men. And it sucks that a lot those genes will make it to the next generation.

Would-Be-Superhero · 2022-12-12T08:47:27+00:00

It’s not fair and it doesn’t have to be.

I mean, society as a whole would disagree with this statement, as the general consensus is we strive for equality and fairness in all possible things.

Administrative-Lie85 · 2022-12-12T18:34:58+00:00

Sure, just understand that female "independence" is a complete artifice that has an expiration date- sooner rather than later. Understand that ultimately, women are at the mercy of men- they always have been and they always will be. If men decided today that they wanted to remake society in the image of 'The Handmaiden's Tale,' there would be little to nothing women could realistically do about it.

supershotmd · 2022-12-12T00:28:07+00:00

If women legitimately only find 10-20% of men worth it - then they have some serious competition amongst themselves.

The_FatGuy_Strangler · 2022-12-12T11:12:35+00:00

Men want women more than women want men.

Men want attractive women more than attractive women want men. FTFY.

I’m in a large facebook singles group in a large metro area. It’s amazing how many lonely desperate women there are who simply want love and affection. OP’s theory is only applicable to attractive women, most women are average or not all that attractive at all. Just go out in public, most women are okay looking, but a lot are just not at all attractive.

Atomic_Thr0away · 2022-12-12T17:15:45+00:00

Ok, so when men had the leverage it was "women are victims" and when women have the leverage it's "suck it up and submit bitch!"

And the idea that men were colluding to keep women out of the coal mine is ridiculous. Yeah, ok, the monopoly man wasn't gonna step aside but for the vast majority of us penis people it's work or die, and the only work was shit women aren't built for. They were better off using their skills in the home raising children.

And the idea that men didn't let women have bank accounts and shit. You're talking about covature. Ya see, the courts held men responsible for any debts incurred by the wife and kids until they were adults. So yeah, he gets to decide if the wife gets a bank account and a credit card. Duh.

Now shit just gets split so go ahead, get your credit card.

No one ever looks any deeper than the surface on these issues like the wage gap.

But besides all your victimhood, you're right about successful women just want the hot guy because she doesn't need the security. But the regular ass high school grad or BA in history is gonna need a man, she just can't admit it yet because she thinks she's gonna be in the 1% all by herself.

Then she hits the wall, life didn't work out how she imagined. Her BA in psychology didn't get her a career and she still owes 80k on the loan and she's a receptionist at a walk in clinic making $17/hr. But OP gonna call her a victim if she has to submit to a man to survive.

And her excuse for being a spoiled tyrant is "well I know some man somewhere was really mean to a woman, so I'm going to get payback for her." Yep, makes sense. /s

throw_plushie · 2022-12-12T00:05:01+00:00

This isn’t true for every woman out there. Some woman are still traditional (I’m not but just saying) and want that 1950s family life. There’s also women who are desperate and just settle for whoever. And, woman who really can’t be picky due to looks or lack of social skills like me. But, you’re right on the fact that the majority of women are this way.

HuckleberryThis2012 · 2022-12-12T03:00:27+00:00

Lol this is a ridiculous misinterpretation of mate selection amongst human beings. We don’t want you more than you want us, maybe for random sex, but that’s debatable as well. I agree it’s ridiculous for men to tell women to change their standards, but the reason women can have those standards is bc men have lower standards. If all men had higher standards then women would have less to choose from, and would have to change their requirements. I’ll also grant you that now that women can have jobs and be educated, that they don’t have to just rely on a man to ensure they have a safe future, but that doesn’t mean we want you more than you want us. If the men who are unsuccessful with women want things to change they need to stop whining at women and start convincing men who are successful to raise their standards and stop sleeping around. Won’t happen anyway but it’s not due to lack of desire by women. Absurd.

You could also say it’s due to a lack of catching up in the equality department. While women approach equality in the workplace, men are still expected to be of equal/higher social standing than them. So the more work success a woman finds, the fewer options she has available to her (based on her own standards). What would make more sense would be to keep redefining gender norms, and to have women look for things in men other than just financial success. If you can take care of your family by yourself, then if you let a man who meets all of your other qualifications except having a high lying job, then it shouldn’t matter just as it doesn’t matter to financial successful men how much money a woman earns. Or don’t. It only hurts the ones who have fewer options as the equivalent men aren’t limiting their options based on a woman’s earnings. A rich man will gladly take a great woman who works a low paying job, so those rich women are competing against all other women for a very small % of men. I’d go as far as to say that this is the last change that needs to happen to level things out. Keeps standards for the type of person someone is, and then the best ppl will still be available to the best ppl. Then the top % of men wouldn’t have unlimited options with no competition, and things would level out.

Immediate-Impact-215 · 2022-12-12T00:31:38+00:00

Disagreed. I think women really care about the standards of men they are attracted to.

I've had women move states, fly across the country, change their whole attitude and behaviors, change their job, quit their job, basically do whatever I told them to do because I was so desirable that changing themselves was worth it.

I'd phrase it like this:

Men have broader desire: Men can date and fuck almost any woman that breathes, is somewhat attractive and is nice to them. They have lower standards, and therefore take a 'spray and pray' approach. 'It only takes one' is the motto.

Women have deeper desire: Women have high standards, so for the men who meet those standards they will do damn near anything to the point of complete desperation. 'I only have one' is the motto.

TL,DR: Men and women want each other differently.

LawfulnessClean621 · 2022-12-12T05:10:41+00:00

You make some assumptions about men becoming these lonely losers because of women gaining more freedom and equality. I think this is flawed. I would argue that there have always been lonely, sexless men and in history. If your family wasn't wealthy enough to temp a bride, or if you weren't competent enough to find your own partner or romantic enough, you were limited in possibility.

The issue I see is that at one time, you could convince these men that they were chosen by god and either send them to warn, or make them cosplay as balding, give them brown robes, and send them to a mens only group home where everyone was in the same boat, but tell them that being sexless made them special to god. Sadly, as the average IQ increased, these would be monks wised up.

HolyPipidastra · 2022-12-12T00:16:07+00:00

OP, you really believe that men used to enslave women for their own selfish reasons? If this was the case, women would have revolted and turned against men way earlier than sixty years ago. As you yourself are saying, it's really ineffective to force women to carry babies they don't want and to take dick they don't want: when white men raped Native American women they would drown themselves and throw away babies. The degree to which women don't want the men we don't want is too large for us to tolerate this for thousands of years. Besides, there was like a myriad of queens and empresses, and it was not exactly eyebrow-raising to spot a high class woman who was educated and preoccupied a position of large influence and power.

Your reading of history is propagated by exactly two and a half crazy social science professors and was debunked like way too many times for you to sit here and in all seriousness say that women were sex slaves for most of human history.

Crawl out of whatever university you are attending and get a refund.

YuekiXC · 2022-12-12T01:11:22+00:00

I'm so glad I found PPD when I was going through the red pill rage all those years ago. The more I see posts like these, the more I realize how stupid all this gender war shit is. I pray to God that I'll be able to find a kind cute girl who doesn't partake in this subs and live a nice happy life 🙏

FeynmansRazor · 2022-12-12T03:34:16+00:00

"Men restricting women’s liberties for their own selfish needs and treating them like commodities was the reason the “sexless, lonely men” issue didn’t exist before."

Here we go again.

Listen, for the vast majority of human history, life was suffering. That applies not just to women, but men too. Were there gendered differences in how the sexes were treated? Yes. Was the restriction of women's liberties a conscious design by men to take advantage of women? Hell no.

It's just due to evolutionary circumstance that women are physically smaller than men and give birth. If men had those traits, then I guarantee you the roles would be reversed.

What liberties did men exactly enjoy in the past? You're statistically a subsistence farmer. You're born into extreme poverty, you'll probably stay poor your whole life, and your choice for a partner is one of the local farm maids.

And yet people tried their best. They survived. And eventually, their descendants gave birth to you. What do you think got them through their miserable lives, if not love for each other? The vast majority of human history was not the tyranny of a patriarch who treated his wife as a commodity. It was men and women working together and doing their best to survive, because the world was trying to kill them.

You do an extreme disservice to your ancestors to not recognose this fact, and if not for your ignorance, I would call it disrespectful. Don't generalise because for every villain or rapist, there are a hundred good fathers and husbands who tried their best.

Men want women more than women want men.

Ironically, I probably agree with this statement. But your conclusion is incorrect.

If your theory is that men want women more, then that means they must have lower standards right? If so, thay means they already are conforming.

"Men want women so bad, their only choice is to conform to our standards & preferences."

What does this mean? All men should somehow make themselves more attractive? How is that going to realistically happen? What exactly are you proposing?

By the way I love women. If you want to talk about differences, you have a higher mental and pain tolerance, a stronger survival instinct and maternal instincts. You heal, nurture, and bring beauty to this planet. Most men live their lives orientated around becoming good enough for the woman of their dreams, even if they consciously deny it. It's a deep urge.

But I also think humans are individuals first, and your personality is more significant than the brain structure of your sex. Which is another reason why generalising men and women as monolithic constructs is bad.

17milestoempty · 2022-12-12T01:21:18+00:00

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SaintVersace · 2022-12-12T12:42:06+00:00

"men dont have anything to offer" what does a woman offer a man?

analt223 · 2022-12-12T16:58:21+00:00

and when society collapses because the country and world becomes a geriatric old folks home, your "i make my money im an independent woman" shit will be just that. If there is nobody to provide your goods and services your career offers, then you will see why this problem is more than just "men too horny euuuu".

yanquideportado · 2022-12-12T02:36:36+00:00

That's fine but men should have to subsidize these women at all thru taxes and alimony. if women are truly independent they can pay their own way.

Braucifarian · 2022-12-12T00:51:32+00:00

"We’re also willing to wait for a man we truly want because the clock isn’t ticking as fast."

You are always on the clock you have just deluded yourself that you have all the time in the world. The cryo-freezing the eggs is a huge business these days because our society is not honest with women that their reproductive clocks tick much faster than men's.

Women cannot have it all and those that try to go the parenthood route alone are in for very serious challenges ahead.

So go ahead pretend to be a boss girl and collect money just don't ever think you can then live a normal life later on. It certainly does not work out that way.

Hellion1234 · 2022-12-12T01:19:36+00:00

Most pushback I see about women’s dating standards is towards woman who seem to have an overinflated sense of their own attractiveness and/or have unrealistic standards. I prefer not commenting about attractiveness since I still think it’s more subjective than not, but as far as standards go, I’d argue that there are issues that many modern women have when it comes to dating. Part of it is the entitlement that some women have, where they expect to be taken care of without reciprocating, all the while being treated as equals. Basically have their cake and eat it too. Personally I don’t care for those and kind of agree that some men are more bitter than they should be, but it’s not unreasonable to have issues with that when mainstream media spins the message that it’s perfectly fair and that men should suck it up and just be better.

Now I agree that women should date people they’re attracted to, just that some might want to change the way they look at relationships(like think about what they give also, not just receive), and maybe think whether some of their standards are too rigid. The second one applies to men too, a lot of people from both sexes seem to have standards that are too fixed and too unrealistic, which very well might not even make them happy in the long run anyway. A lot of the time the perfect partner will not be how you imagined.

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2022-12-12T02:18:29+00:00

It's actually more about the fact that all the requirements women have before even talking/seeing them is extremely dehumanizing, like it's like lots of women don't see men as human with feeling until a month into the relationship....

It boggles my mind that women hate getting physically objectified and bitch until they turn blue in the face, then turn around and do the EXACT same thing to men....

throw_it_awayyy8 · 2022-12-12T07:20:26+00:00

I literally rejected women ftom both sex and dating.

To me, having a wife isn't even worth it even though it would be attainable.

As for conforming to your standards? Spent enough time around women who word things like this to know to stay away from you.

The same way I would stay away from a dude who said women have no choice but to conform. U sound like a tyrant😭

_Remember_me_not_ · 2022-12-12T11:40:34+00:00

Nice bait but no one needs to change their standards. There are enough people around that will suit your preferences and needs. Instead, it's those leftover oblivious women crying around,"Where have all the good men gone?". Men and women both have options if they are worthy enough.

BlackestOfHammers · 2022-12-12T03:12:37+00:00

This is truly an awesome take. I feel it should be the same for men. Don’t settle and just pick any girl. We all should get the partner we want. I do think it’ll be a big change for society. More older mothers. More people doing “single shit” for longer terms. A lot of last minute “this is the best I’ll get” relationships but I think in the future it will be better as a whole when it balances out.

photo-nerd84 · 2022-12-12T10:56:27+00:00

Get off your high horse lady, you ain’t special

kvakerok · 2022-12-12T06:57:05+00:00

Men want women more then women want men, and that’s why <bla bla bla>

Lmao, is that why OLD apps are chock full of pre- and post-wall single moms and stronk wahmen with 9/10 profiles having "no hookups" and literally zero actual personality in them?

we’re settling down later and we’re choosing men we’re actually attracted to.

Cool, but by accepting male values as your own you have overlooked the fact that according to male values your age and fertility are literally the top things you bring to the table in a partnership. Putting aside a small fraction of child-free couples, literally nobody other than you gives a flying fuck about your career or how monetarily set you are, because any high quality man that you could possibly match with already has all those things or can provide them, so he doesn't look for them in a partner.

So by settling down later you have created an over-saturated market of pre- and post-wall women with little to no capacity of even maintaining a relationship lol. What are you even good for other than hookups? Most of you have longest relationship listed as "under a year", which is a big ol' red flag no high quality man would want to deal with in an LTR.

17milestoempty · 2022-12-11T23:57:26+00:00

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Final_Philosopher663 · 2022-12-12T00:01:57+00:00

I would consider dating apps and hookup culture a far bigger factor in the disparity.I am not shaming anybody for having standards as long as you keep those standards and don't think later "I shouldn't have left" . This goes for men and women.

Edit: By the way you can watch the recent rise as different things.

Men don't want to indulge hookup culture
Average men don't like hookup culture
Average women might benefit more from hookup culture (at least in having hookups not in general)
More women indulging in hookup culture meaning less women for "serious LTR or marriage" from the standpoint of men having standards regarding promiscuity
Average Men being afraid to indulge on hitting on women cause they know they can be considered creeps and they see all the new laws with changing definitions for sexual assault (even considering staring a bit more as assault)
Average Men trying to find partners mainly through social media (big mistake) instead of good old ways
Average Women using social media to find partners instead of real life

These are just the top of my head , i know my position is a bit "male centric" cause I am a man LOL but yeah I have no problems with the recent "changes". I would love for some other examples too, i just pulled those out of my ass as food for thought that the problem is not one dimensional.Edit 2:

I forgot by the way one huge thing I wanted to add.

The more the government provides for the "beta" side of things like protection provision it is fairly logical to say that women's standards or expectations from the opposite sex will strive more towards "alpha" characteristics and looks. Because the government says you don't need to worry even if he doesn't help I will. And this taken to the extremes will lead to big increases to polygamy and many baby mammas from the same father .

But there is a problem with that. The societies that survived had low percentages of "sexless men" without families, because if they didn't crime went up or the men didn't have the "drive" to work hard because they didn't need to provide for their family.

I don't entertain any solutions I am just saying what I see.

Laytheblameonluck · 2022-12-12T01:14:20+00:00

This post is a total Luxury Belief that students have before they get a job:

https://nypost.com/2019/08/17/luxury-beliefs-are-the-latest-status-symbol-for-rich-americans/

NationalistGoy · 2022-12-12T18:24:44+00:00

Men want women more then women want men

As a man, I don't care if women believe this. It doesn't affect me one bit.

megamorphg · 2022-12-12T01:15:19+00:00

Feminist anger just makes man and woman more separate. The state loves feminism because now both man and woman are working and giving taxes while they brainwash the kids to become confused slaves.

IntegrityDJones · 2022-12-12T05:31:40+00:00

Funny how they come in with their doom and gloom threats. And think that’s supposed to mean something . “Society will collapse unless women are miserable being slaves and fucking ugly men.” Ohhhhhhhh nooo we women should save society so we can be miserable and unhappy with ugly men?! Well let’s just dole out some pussy for the undesirables!!! Ladies society is depending on our unhappiness. We should get right to it!!!

obviousredflag · 2022-12-12T10:07:15+00:00

While alot of what you said is correct, you failed to explain WHY men want women more than women want men. You just argued that women lost the need for a man. Regarding their wants, you have not made a point.

I'd argue, that based on evolutionary history, women want men more for a long term relationmship and child rearing, than men want women. Not by a large margin, but relevant. Men want sex more though, and currently is the best time in history to have casual sex.

You also failed to address that being in a relationship is a paired game: there is no single man without a corresponding single woman. The woman can have all the standards they want, but that will keep them single and unhappy.

Please make an argument for why men want women more for longterm relationships.

ScourgeLozer · 2022-12-12T04:45:52+00:00

All of this is true. In a post I wrote yesterday, I went into great length on how males suffer more when this isn't accepted on a general basis. Men are taught from an early age that attraction and affection are shared, but in reality, women are the ones who control it because men want it far more than they do.

Everyone would be happier if we accepted this difference rather than attempting to falsely equalize everyone. Men wouldn't hold themselves accountable for not being able to get women because it is utterly out of their control at the end of the day.

Only this is, men will just have less motivation to function. The engine of society continues to run on the phony promise of love. It is the biological imperative that all men want, but few will get. I sincerely doubt that women will be able to continue where they left off if men leave. However, that is a big if.

W0rking_Kale_oof · 2022-12-12T06:08:19+00:00

Some guys here think that women's standards drop when they need to get married. I'm here to tell you about how I've seen above average attractive career women on the apps say in their bio that they want a sperm donor.

Why would they want a sperm donor if women like them can still get lots of matches even if Chad stops being interested when she turns 35? Because she still wants Chad genes and will never drop her standards.

And this is for women who say it outright in their bios. I'm sure there are others pursuing the same without saying it out loud. Remember Jan from The Office?

Ass___Master___69 · 2022-12-12T06:18:57+00:00

I read online somewhere that if men weren't as horny as we are now, women would be humbled so fast. And honestly, this post is proving that point to a T 😂

gate18 · 2022-12-12T11:58:51+00:00

Men want women so bad, their only choice is to conform to our standards & preferences.

That's a sexist remark. Sexist against women

That remark says women are sheep, they all have the same (high) standards.

Not true at all.

Other than that, yes. Whilst these changes have taken place for women, men have been made to believe that their "biological greatness" and sex are all they need, which is sad.

Many of the most desperate men surely have other issues on top of being involuntarily celibate which unfortunately they get no support for. So I doubt it has to do with female standards, as unless women are UFOs (newsflash: they aren't) their standards are all sorts.

(F-Y-fucking-I, there are lots of female incels too)

I know that you, like many, feel part of the cool group, but it's a fake feeling. So many people, of all genders, have extremely low standards about everything. You just ignore them to make your point.

nicethingyoucanthave · 2022-12-12T13:52:36+00:00

You’re not going to shame women into changing or lowering their standards

Can you please link me to an example that you've seen, where you feel a man is "shaming women into lowering her standards"

I'd really like to see what you're talking about in context.

I suspect that what's going on is, a woman initiates the conversation by complaining that men wont commit to her. In that context, it might be appropriate to give her a reality check with regard to her standards.

women (largely) aren’t desperate for a man

If that's true, then nobody is going to criticize you. Nobody will criticize you because you aren't complaining.

If you're happy being single, nobody is going to pass you on the street and say, "hold on a second, I need to tell you something ... lower your standards!!"

You're only ever going to hear "lower your standards" in the context of a discussion where you're whining that you can't find a man.

Robotemist · 2022-12-12T14:23:13+00:00

Men don't want women more than women want men. Men want the average woman more than the average woman wants the average man, but women also want the top man more than the average man wants any woman.

lolthankstinder · 2022-12-12T15:45:20+00:00

Damn I feel Reddit hides all the good posts from me until it's too late so my comment will inevitably get buried.

Men want women more then women want men

Go look at viewership/readership demographics for romance media like Bachelor(ette), romantic comedies, movies, book series, vampire shit, etc. and let me know which gender consumes most of that...

It's pretty obvious that women want men just as much as men want women. The problem is a disconnect between what kind of a guy women are led to believe they think they deserve vs reality. Modern society expects men to approach, and women to "choose". It puts men at a disadvantage (ESPECIALLY in the digital age) because they have to constantly put effort into, and worry about, picking up women, whereas women just get to sit on their butts and get a seemingly endless stream of options. Research shows that men can be just as picky and coy about dating if they are approached.

For example, even you are perpetuating the stereotype that women are the "choosers".

we’re settling down later and we’re choosing men we’re actually attracted to. We’re also willing to wait for a man we truly want

The real problem with modern dating is feminism is coming in and eliminating everything advantaging men but conveniently overlooking or being lackadaisical about anything advantaging women. Any attempt to stop that is dismissed as misogyny, reactionary antifeminism, or incelhood. Misogyny is fought while misandry is forgiven. For example, you'll see a lot of women condemning the entirety of men as "trash" and "needing to improve" nowadays whilst unrealistic expectations for things like mens' height run rampant. How would you know if all men are trash if, given an abundance of options, you want to date guys 9.8" taller than you?

So, no, men do not want women more than women want men. Modern dating (in westernized, postfeminist countries) disadvantages men and we have to wait a couple generations for everyone's feminism high to wear off before it becomes socially acceptable to actually address misandry, asymmetry, and unhealthy/unrealistic physical standards of men in dating.

Immoral_devil · 2022-12-12T18:25:19+00:00

Finally someone saying it like it is. Women have evolved to desire men based on survival needs and this has changed drastically over a short space of time. There is now a disequilibrium in the market.

It also doesn’t hurt that women start off life at their adult life at their most beautiful which is the time when most propel find partners and get married.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2022-12-12T19:16:34+00:00

Women want who they perceive as a 'top man' way more than men generally want women --- that's the hole in your argument, here.

Women very much care about the standards of 'those' men and spend all the live long day caterwauling about it.

I myself have been the recipient of downright weird behavior regarding women I will and will not enter into any kind of relations with.

Men are allowed to have preferences but having strict preferences only makes dating even harder for you. It’s not fair and it doesn’t have to be.

Not really. If more men had strict dating preferences and refused to tolerate bad behavior, things would straighten up. Similarly for women.

If people prioritized who treated them well, we'd hear a lot less bellyaching. But that's not the world we live in. Oh well.

Tricky_Dog1465 · 2022-12-12T22:27:08+00:00

Women do care I think, we are just sick of hearing how some man made shitty choices and can't handle that no wish wants him.

If a guy can live with being alone because of his own choices, he should absolutely do whatever makes him happy inside the law.

Just don't bitch when those choices have been made and women won't give you the time of day.

Fit_Reception4923 · 2022-12-13T00:24:24+00:00

I fucking love being a single man. It's fucking fantastic. Only reason I'd change it is if an lovely lady with my values approached me but I'm done making first move in hope while just being strung along. I don't hate women, just never will need one, even tho it would be a nice bonus Life is bloomin brilliant without

kayman79 · 2022-12-13T17:10:23+00:00

So to summarize what the op is saying, the reason why so many women of today are so arrogant with their mentality towards men is because there are so many SIMPS who are willing to put up with it. She's absolutely right and it started with the simps of the baby boomer generation. My prediction is that this may go on for another generation or two but there will eventually be a swing in the other direction. Probably an over correction that women aren't going to be very happy about.

melody_of_ · 2022-12-12T00:52:48+00:00

I don't understand the downvotes this is exactly how most women relate to and view men

HugeSaladFork · 2022-12-12T01:47:25+00:00

Before women had the freedom to get an education, earn their own money, or own property, we relied on men to provide for us

Who is we? Did you specifically have this problem? You are not a victim.

raeva_ignite · 2022-12-12T06:51:31+00:00

This only works if the woman is attractive and young, even if you age well and older most guys aren't into actually dating them but use cougars and older women just for sex... If your an old ugly woman you can have a Nobel peace prize, own a yacht, make seven figures and be a rocket scientist and guys still aren't going to be chasing her other than jigaloos and male prostitutes and even then they aren't chasing her she'd have to pay. Also female fertility is shot much earlier. Recent science shows that female eggs start to deform and go to shit as early as age 27..

Also male and female sexuality aren't the same. Many women are attracted to older guys naturally and care less about looks as long as he has status, money, charm and confidence. A woman can't compete with that as male sexuality isn't drawn to women for the same reasons, they don't care how much money she makes, her education, how independent she can be etc. They care about youth, fertility and how happy and supportive she makes him feel. So if she literally doesn't have those things which is completely out of her control other than expensive plastic surgery and can't reverse time, it's impossible.

So if you are a 45 year old woman even if she's hot whose got shot eggs that is past the prime and not healthy to have kids anymore, who desperately wants a baby and a partner but competing for the same man against 20-25 year olds, what do you think is gonna happen? Sorry but in the test of time in the long run, women on average can't win here.

anon-sucks · 2022-12-12T03:08:25+00:00

Women shouldn’t lower their standards at all. In fact I think they should raise them. Maybe only date astronauts?

You see, western women a few decades ago wanted to be part of a team, like men. Now they are just one entitled asshole after another. Women’s unrealistic standards just save men from sexist divorce courts.

WideAwake550 · 2022-12-12T03:27:10+00:00

Okay sure.

But I NEVER want to see men get blamed for "pretty privilege", fatphobia, colorism, racism, transphobia, lookism, ageism, slut shaming, etc. ever again since that directly contradicts the claim women on PPD love to make about men being desperate dogs who will date an ugly crackhead because we're oh so desperate for women more than vice versa.

Ya'll love to tout this belief until it directly contradicts your other claims.

No_Reflection_798 · 2022-12-12T04:17:10+00:00

I mean this honestly. You sound angry, and your anger is mistargeted towards men. Don't berate us and try to shame us for having realistic standards.

The rest, I'm being snarky:

Sure, wait decades.

Sure, have high standards.

Sure, fight for the top ten percent of men.

Sure, be hypocritical in thinking that only men have to nurture a relationship.

Sure, view the relationship as some resource to only withdraw from - not deposit into.

Sure, don't recognize that men are looking for their equals, while women are looking for their betters.

Good luck with all of that.

It doesn't sound like you actually want a relationship.

🎵 I am a rock. I am an island. 🎵

Individual_Guitar595 · 2022-12-12T06:32:48+00:00

You can at least thank men for building civilization where such independence is possible.

Sutanrei · 2022-12-12T06:37:40+00:00

Most women don't want or even prefer this. Nice try though.

Best_Illustrator_137 · 2022-12-12T06:37:57+00:00

Lol, I mean if your talking like sexually yeah men want women more than vise versa but if it’s for relationships or long term commitment I feel like even more men aren’t trynna do that nowadays compared to back then..and men could literally care less if you have any of those things and in 2022 that’s kind of just expected now so it’s not something men care about like that.

SpecialSpnk · 2022-12-12T10:12:53+00:00

Yea our strict standards are don’t be an obese bitch but yea men have WAY TO HIGH OF STANDARDS!!!

johnnyferrera · 2022-12-12T13:53:04+00:00

The only reason you don't need men is because the government protects you (most of which is paid by men btw). In its absence you'd need to sell your pussy to the first men that offered you protection.

diwntd · 2022-12-12T18:15:41+00:00

OP if you're around, I'd like to ask you just one question:

Would you feel any sadness if you heard some news that a so called "average" man took his own life because he couldn't find a partner?

I hope I can count on your honesty.

Blame_the_Muse · 2022-12-12T00:01:55+00:00

Women want boyfriends about as badly as men want sex. Women don't have any leverage.

LaloTwins · 2022-12-12T00:07:02+00:00

I mean if this was true women wouldn’t collectively care that men don’t want to wife up the town bicycle

So uh that’s that

oneandonlyrebelchild · 2022-12-12T00:00:07+00:00

Let us know how this attitude works out for you.

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2022-12-12T01:13:55+00:00

OP, I wish I could give you a million rewards!

GirlTrouble666 · 2022-12-12T02:49:55+00:00

So weird how when we aren't being forced to engage with men, many of us chose not to.

Really makes you think about the shit we put up with for so long.

Adept-Development-00 · 2022-12-12T00:32:30+00:00

This comes off as condescending. Men aren't one person. We all think differently.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2022-12-12T02:52:20+00:00

Our independence is borrowed. Eventually the veneer of civilization will deteriorate and hard power will dominate again. Enjoy the decline. 🍷

FaithlessnessNo2495 · 2022-12-12T00:44:47+00:00

This would be true if women didn’t constantly dress and change their appearance for the male gaze. Y’all are already trying to fit the standards of what men consider the most “sexually appealing” 🤣

TraditionUnable9770 · 2022-12-12T01:29:59+00:00

I don't know how come i only see women complaining about not finding a man on tik tok, isntagram social media etc.

CanOfWoody · 2022-12-12T02:08:52+00:00

You dont have to change your standards. Just change your country. Move to a country where theres massive poverty like I did. Then you can have all your leverage back.

EBZ1722 · 2022-12-12T04:41:40+00:00

Sounds like a long form way of saying you're against the continued existence of the human race. Which I should say is a lame and utterly selfish perspective.

The "egalitarian" system we exist in today is a total fluke, it exists only because our civilization has not yet been militarily conquered by a stronger one.

Nobody's freedom is set in stone, it is won and held only with iron, it's a smart idea to never forget that.

jacare_o · 2022-12-12T01:24:13+00:00

I agree with all this. But something you didn't consider is the pushback that's going to come from men, and it's not going come from a direction that you expect.

What's going to happen is that men are going to stop working hard. What gave them the incentive to work hard before, was initially sex, and then having a responsibility to children and wife. As those goals become harder and harder to achieve, men are just going to quit, and just do enough to barely get by and stay alive. It's happening already.

etherael · 2022-12-12T05:25:29+00:00

You're right, the easiest way to observe it is to go to countries where it's not true and observe the massive gap in behaviour when it comes to women. There they care very much about men's standards and work very hard to meet them. The only gap in your theory is that all the things you listed women being able to do and having rights regarding, they have them there too.

What they don't have is the same culture war situation, and also they don't have a state backed unlimited welfare safety net for women, so both there's no cultural stigma to choosing the traditional path, and if they don't choose it they really do have to actually work hard and compete with men without affirmative action in the workforce. And even then the women that do make that choice still tend to care about men's standards and misandry is quite rare.

So you're right, but the reasons you cite don't make any sense unless I'm missing something.

ChudBuck · 2022-12-12T05:56:57+00:00

I love posts like these, and I respect the honesty.

Da_Famous_Anus · 2022-12-12T06:07:50+00:00

... for sex.

Pavi2 · 2022-12-12T12:47:16+00:00

Lol y'all just stay single these bitches are dumb as shit. She didn't even realize the fact that she has waited longer makes her less appealing. More partners are a turn off also the closer to the age of 35 you are the less option you actually have. Women with kids aren't in high demand anymore (thank you for killing off the idea good men will take care of them) we don't have to that's only in a woman's head. Women are the ones that have seriously over estimated there market value and very seriously fucked up when they overestimated how much men actually need them.

Fit_Reception4923 · 2022-12-13T00:16:03+00:00

Idgaf about ever dating these days because there is nothing to be gained anymore with the current female attitudes so your argument is nonsense

renfsu · 2022-12-12T02:10:45+00:00

Men want women so bad, their only choice is to conform to our standards & preferences.

I agree with most of your post outside of the obvious anger you have. And this last sentence.

High standard low quality woman is a very Europe/American thing. Mainly US. I can say this doesn't even apply to every individual woman. I don't need to conform to anything. I just need to find a good, realistic woman who isn't jaded. Why conform to slutty florida girl when I can get a more conservative, higher quality woman in Arizona?

The world is full of beautiful, realistic women who aren't posting ass pictures on Instagram.

And yes men do want women more as a whole. I can agree.

suj1290 · 2022-12-12T09:10:09+00:00

Good luck to them on finding a guy who wants to settle with a old bitter women

memyhim · 2022-12-12T12:48:59+00:00

When times were hard (during most of our history) women needed men and were glad to have them for protection and provisioning. Then men invented technology that made everyone richer and made it easier for women to be self-sufficient. Now women don't need men as much and put them down. But when time get hard again it will reverse. Women are like that 'friend' who you help out till they get back on their feet, then who ditches you and only calls you again when they need more help.

HappyHerpes · 2022-12-12T00:06:00+00:00

Very well written and thought though. I think I finally understand the incel feminist fight.

Still, at the same time there is something going on that making men and women have a harder time to end up in a relationship than before.

CombinationUsed7938 · 2022-12-12T00:20:58+00:00

I hope incels or red pilled guys don't read this.

MachiNarci · 2022-12-12T00:37:30+00:00

Fine, just don't blame men who exploit poor countries like the Philippines or Colombia to take advantage of women in non-feminist countries having far lower standards, calling them predators or what not.

We men are a problem-solving race. Women raise their standards due to feminism and the sexual revolution? We invent PUA to study what women with unrestricted sexualities are attracted to. Women raise their standards to an abnormally high level while also giving up on relationships at a far higher rate than men? Fine, we'll go to countries where feminism and female empowerment have barely taken root, ergo providing swaths of beautiful women with low-standards and pro-male biases.

I agree with you. Men still need relationships, while women only want them, and only commit to men who tick all their boxes entirely unwilling to settle. If women want to be single and "not need no men," they can go ahead. I'm just tired of women complaining when men respond to such through alternative dating routes. Hell, in Sweden, feminists are actively trying to regulate and ban sex tourism since feminism got so bad, that men started importing Thai women in droves. Wanna be single? Fine. But this idea that men should respond to this by "making themselves more appealing to modern women" is ridiculous. Literally the majority of liberal women think cheating can be justified, whereas conservative women think the opposite. Why would I exert more effort to attain a pickier and lower quality woman when there's a whole underdeveloped world of beautiful women with lower standards who I can pursue to secure a manic pixie dream girl?

Lainpiller · 2022-12-12T01:50:44+00:00

I mean there are still loads of third world countries out there where being a western male makes you automatically take your pick. More men should look into moving to the Philippines and Latin America. Better looking women, more grateful, feminine and finally more attainable lol. It's a no brainer but I guess guys are hopeless romantics whereas women just see dating as a "best I can get for my buck" game

FlyV89 · 2022-12-12T00:44:37+00:00

Ladies and gentlemen...

This is what the hook up culture makes to women. This is what a trainwreck looks and speaks like.

If you ever wonder why men care so much about N-count... This is.

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RocinanteCoffee · 2022-12-12T01:21:56+00:00

<Men are allowed to have preferences but having strict preferences only makes dating even harder for you

Preferences cannot be helped. Nobody should 'loosen their standards'.

Yes I hope everyone in this life including myself grows and becomes less shallow. But I do not think anybody should date someone they are not attracted to just to virtue signal. It's misleading to the person you are taking out on a date who also deserves to be free to find a match who genuinely finds them attractive.

awaythrow1234588 · 2022-12-12T00:00:31+00:00

Because if the high standards most of yall are not going to be able to get the men you want all to yourselves. You have to be ready to fall in love with this perfect men but also be ready to get dumped on or cheated on for another women that's also going to get dumped

OkProfessional9405 · 2022-12-12T01:29:40+00:00

Men want women so bad, their only choice is to conform to our standards & preferences.

That argument holds until around age 30. After that men don't want you so bad.

mahaitre · 2022-12-12T00:24:05+00:00

What you say legitimizes all cheating, trapasses, manipulation and lies to y'all women. Thus a man should not have any minimal guilty conscience by doing so to you, because you really deserve that.

BewitchedHare · 2022-12-12T10:26:38+00:00

Yet women need men more than men need women.
Life will balance out. There are enough ladies that still want relationships and children. The hags that don't will die out, and will be left as an anecdote in the history books.

WildCardSolly4 · 2022-12-12T12:50:09+00:00

Also I’m going to need the men to stfu … why? Because you don’t get to complain if you’re only chasing baddies! You goofballs . I’ve fucked with all types of women because yolo…. And I’m a 6’1 ish ASAP Rocky / yachty hybrid. If I wanted only 8-10s I’d def need the gym and to be less bummy 😂…. But I got a fed career all that I’m just not tripping Bc I don’t chase! I like girls wo like me…. No girls like you? Upgrade yourself homie … alright I’m off to then shower now 📈

MC-Purp · 2022-12-12T16:58:19+00:00

Totally agree. This why Sex Work should be legalized and well organized

Steakman1 · 2022-12-12T01:03:58+00:00

we’re settling down later and we’re choosing men we’re actually attracted to. We’re also willing to wait for a man we truly want because the clock isn’t ticking as fast.

The nuance here is whether the man someone truly wants is realistic given who the woman is themselves. But the general idea here isn’t necessarily bad. I’m not one to say women have too high of standards and will end up alone with a cat. But I will say that is a theory. But that theory will only be proven or disproven as time goes on since the idea of overly high standards is a relatively new issue that only came about with young women who are still young. Sure it existed before. But not to the same degree.

I will agree that a lot of men are underperforming, assuming you believe that. But I also think plenty of women are as well. And the things many women are choosing to excel in are things that don’t matter a high amount when it comes to relationships. Of course there’s fulfillment that can come of having a successful career. But at least with me personally, if the only fulfilling thing I end up doing with my life is having a decent career making, lets say $80k a year doing a job I don’t exactly wake up excited to do, then I would probably be pretty miserable when I’m older. And the reality is that most people don’t actually like their jobs that much even if it makes them a good amount of money. Everyone expecting to be the exception here who will end up loving their job will leave many disappointed. But at least with women they have more freedom to choose career fields they actually enjoy. Whereas men still have the societal pressure to choose career fields that make the most money and not necessarily things they’re passionate about.

the “sexless, lonely men” issue didn’t exist before.

I think the issue did exist before as well. It’s just these men were more likely complete social outcasts and didn’t have platforms like Reddit to complain about their lack of companionship where thousands of strangers can easily see it.

men want women more than women want men.

I think women want “good” men as much as men want women. What a “good” man is depends on the individual. I just think women are much quicker to give up and say those types of men don’t exist when in reality they’re likely just prioritizing arousal which leads to them picking bad men. Then they go on to conclude all men are that way. Of course this only applies to the women who have that issue of only finding bad men.

Men want women so bad, their only choice is to conform to our standards & preferences.

I do agree men’s desire for women is part of what strived exceptional men to excel. The difference is that if you admit that now in today’s world, it’s perceived as unattractive to women and you’re labeled as a simp, beta, lvm, etc by other men. In a world where arousal is basically the #1 priority when picking a partner, admitting you go out of your way to do things specifically to attract women isn’t arousing to hear. So it’s basically something that exists that everyone pretends doesn’t.

Sleepyjosh · 2022-12-12T03:25:39+00:00

Sweet! I’ll enjoy my bag.

shonenhikada · 2022-12-12T04:09:43+00:00

"Now that women can become educated, earn money, and own property, women (largely) aren’t desperate for a man to provide for us, we’re settling down later and we’re choosing men we’re actually attracted to. We’re also willing to wait for a man we truly want because the clock isn’t ticking as fast."

And this is why 50% of you guys will be single and childless in 2030.

hodlbtcxrp · 2022-12-12T05:43:09+00:00

This is only true if a womam is willing to not have kids. If she wants children, the biological clock is ticking, and I find many women who want kids are quite desperate. However, once a woman is able to let go of the impulse to procreate (eg she embraces r/antinatalism) then I do agree that she has the upper hand, especially if she is educated and has her own job, investments etc.

abaxeron · 2022-12-12T12:03:09+00:00

Before women had the freedom to get an education,

When was it?

For 99% of human history, 99% of labor was unskilled and not requiring education or certification. To this day, in certain developed countries, certain professions are monitored by craftsmen guilds who have their own system of training, parallel to schools and universities and independent form them.

The second oldest European university is confirmed to have accepted women and allowed them to teach centuries before the discovery of America.

What the Hell are you talking about.

earn their own money,

Whose else money you can earn (rather than steal, seize, inherit, reappropriate, or get as a payment for pre-existing goods)? When you quote the latest reprint of the latest current thing propaganda brochure that somehow has neither changed nor got fixed despite all of women's demands consistently being agreed to and met, with interest, can you at least switch your own brain on for one damn second?

or own property,

Well, you get the point by this moment, I hope.

we relied on men to provide for us and put a roof over our heads.

You still do. "9.2% of roofing contractors are women and 90.8% of roofing contractors are men." This is the statistic before it takes into account how many female contractors have male "assistants" who actually do virtually all the work.

and we’re choosing men we’re actually attracted to

And then initiate the overwhelming majority of divorces and slight majority of breakups. Yeah, makes perfect sense.

Men restricting women’s liberties for their own selfish

Go get some sleep. Men are the only reason women have any liberties.

StarLord120697 · 2022-12-12T13:42:38+00:00

Yeah fuck that lmao. I ain't nobody's bitch to conform to them. Sure, nobody owes me anything as well and that's fine.

I say the bigger issue here with modern youth not dating as much on the male side is getting worse not cuz of female standards but what modern feminism is teaching men from the young age, guilt tripping them for something they did not even do. So many young men afraid to even speak to women. A woman can easily ruin a man's life by saying he did something he didn't do. They fear this and it's a legit fear. Men are also being shamed for behaving like men, who are supposed to be forward, and even many woman think the same, that more and more men are becoming pussies.

Another thing, for which I blame men, is that a lot of them think like monkeys. Why do you think it's so easy for women to earn money by doing literally nothing (onlyfans)? Because men enable this. This is a big trait I hate in my entire freaking gender. Men are willing to pay money to see some nude pic when they can do so for free anyway or could just go and find someone... it's men who gave popularity to all the pornstars, playboy bunnies and shit. Glorifying doing nothing, quite literally.

In short, that is why men freaking suck and the dating field will never be leveled... cuz of their monkey-like behavior without any reason to it. Men seriously need to kick this behavior aside and gain some self-respect.

AndrewPotato34 · 2022-12-12T15:19:07+00:00

Op is misandry on reddit, this post should be reported. I can sense the misandy and anger

insultin_crayon · 2022-12-12T21:49:49+00:00

Heavy upvotes on the uncolored pill that males can't swallow.

Dstar538888 · 2022-12-13T07:06:00+00:00

The little incel squad aren't gonna like this one lmaoo

Dstar538888 · 2022-12-13T20:47:27+00:00

This is why I don't feel sorry for the males who complain about being virgins, these are usually the males who tend to be unattractive, broke, have unpleasant personalities, and really just aren't bringing much to the table that would garner much interest from any woman....the men in this sub want attractive women to provide free,easy, convenient sex to ugly men when the women aren't getting anything out of doing that whatsoever...but now that we have the choice to say "no" to them, they're getting mad that women have choices and bodily autonomy now lmaoo

West-Ad-9697 · 2022-12-12T06:27:10+00:00

[ Removed by Reddit ]

draiki13 · 2022-12-12T00:25:47+00:00

Women have been sold on this idea of “strong independent women”, who can do anything by themselves without any help. This is way too much propagated in the media. It hurts both genders.

We are supposed to complement each other. Instead we’re reverting back to the most primitive ways where women are mainly viewed as sex objects and also present themselves as such. Either that or they go full career mode.

alphasupremacy5555 · 2022-12-12T01:22:05+00:00

It's really more that there are way more men who want women than they are women who want men or that there are far less women who want men than there are men who want women.

From the way you said it, women back then didn't really want men they needed us. As opposed to now most women don't need or want men.

It's actually detrimental for a woman to settle down much later because a woman's peak sexual agency is when she's in her early twenties so women can choose the men that they're attracted to but are those men choosing them with the same reciprocity?

Y'all extremely delusional standards today is the reason why so many men are seeking women in other countries or checking out of dating altogether because the juice really isn't worth the squeeze or going mgtow.

The reality is that women in general and the very tiny top percentage of men have the power in the today's unregulated global sexual marketplace.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-12-12T01:57:57+00:00

I like the directness. But there is one key assumption here. And that is that a society organized this way in terms of gender relations will still function (or even dysfunction) within a certain acceptable performance zone.

The OPs post is based on men choosing to hold with their Liberal Enlightenment principles no matter what, even if when it comes to gender, this means things turn against them. This is possible.

But it is also possible that if women's selectivity becomes too high, things fall apart. Societies become too uncompetitive. Men become too bitter. Hard to say.

Rights don't exist in the Jungle. The OPs logic only works within a civilization, and only within a certain type of civilization that also manages to remain competitive with alternatives. One always has to keep that in mind.

Title	CMV: Men want women more then women want men, and that’s why we don’t care about your standards.
Author	17milestoempty
Upvotes	260
Comments	481
Date	December 11, 2022 11:55 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/zjfbat/cmv_men_want_women_more_then_women_want_men_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-men-want-women-more-then-women-want-men-and.1144212 https://theredarchive.com/post/1144212

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