Only men can solve the male loneliness epidemic (and most so called male issues)

domdomdom333 · 2023-09-19T00:15:00+00:00

No, this one sided deflection of "it's a men problem so men fix it" is exactly why the issue is so prevalent.

Twist it the other way, would you say the same thing about women's issues? A woman might be scared to go alone at night through a high crime rate gang territory and the solution is one that only she can solve? Pretty sure to make that place safe you'd need both men to quit that part of life and involve society like police.

Women aren't at fault for the situation society is in, especially the young ones as they're born into a society that started change several generations ago, though I'd agree the double standards are proof women need to take an active role as well. Men alone aren't gonna solve the loneliness epidemic as they're half of society.

Ill-Secretary-2297 · 2023-09-18T22:58:39+00:00

OP’s post like “why don’t you get your dude bro politicians to help? You both got dongles dontcha?”

SianOiseau · 2023-09-18T16:04:33+00:00

Men's issues don't exist in a vacuum, they both affect and are perpetuated by both genders. It makes sense that men should be the moving force in dealing with their own issues, just as it is and was with other disadvantaged groups, as no one can just solve your issues for you, but I think women should participate in the process as allies. We can do what we expect men to do in regards of feminism - support, spread awareness, hold yourself and others accountable etc.

Leaving aside big political actions people of both genders should help their close ones. Being more aware about men's issues and struggles can help women to provide more effective and needed help to their husbands/sons/brothers/friends or notice red flags before it's too late and a person is gone.

VTHokie2020 · 2023-09-18T15:57:57+00:00

When talking about things like race inequality or gender inequality there's a common line from politicians that goes something like, "This is everybody's problem. All fair-minded Americans should be concerned with this"

It's the idea that you can't just leave it to xyz community to solve their problem, that institutions - particularly government - should step in. It's why we see DEI, affirmative action, etc.

The opposite side of this is that you can't just throw around policies and social programs, individuals are responsible for their actions. I think most people are somewhere in the middle.

Just know that when you say stuff like this:

I am not saying it's not sad, but I don't get what you expect women to do. Men need to learn to build support networks the way women do.

It's sociologically the same as saying: "If women want to be CEO's/judges/politicians more often, they need to learn how to build professional networks like men do." or "If hispanics/blacks want to have higher incomes, they need to learn how to go to college like asians and whites do"

Is it true? Honestly, yes to a large extent. But it's also very dismissive, isn't it?

Radiant_Reply5612 · 2023-09-18T17:23:32+00:00

I’ve always said this and when you talk to men about why they’re not doing anything substantial to help each other they basically admit that men don’t care about other men. Even last week under this sub a man explained this to me.

Like if we look at any group that’s ever struggled socially - women, lgbt , POC… they all organize themselves, march, create programs, build communities meant to help each other and men just don’t. They spend most of their energy gathering together to criticize women and “society” but that’s as far as it goes. They’ll follow advice that would make themselves become better so they can get what they want on an individual level but there’s not much interest from them when it comes to community building and progress. That’s also why their idea of loneliness is entirely dependent on women, whereas women can be single and thrive a lot more easily bc we emotionally support each other. I would be ok single, not necessarily happy, but i would do good mentally as long as i have some solid supportive friendships and family.

webernicke · 2023-09-18T15:36:18+00:00

It's not women's fault if men have no empathy for their fellow men.

It's not women's fault if men are worse at creating support networks.

I don't know about that. Women get suspicious when men congregate outside of female supervision and have actively attempted (and succeeded) in getting such organizations either shut down or socially shunned.

If there are problems that men face, (like circumcision, the male draft, unfair custody etc.) men have the power to legally change them. The fact that men don't use their power to promote the interests of their fellow men is a men's problem and it's unreasonable to expect women to do something about it.

In the US, women make up the greater number of voters so politicians, male or otherwise, have an incentive to cater to female priorities. And even when they don't/didn't make up a majority of the electorate, women have been shown in several cases to possess a great deal of social influence, regardless of their access to the franchise (e.g. Prohibition, various revolutions, et al.)

Bonus to the above point, policies that are seen as "anti-woman" (e.g. Roe v. Wade turnover, and the continuing failure to elect a female President) probably have a lot to do with a silent disunity among women when it comes to civic participation and sociopolitical opinions, rather than patriarchal men trying to hold women down.

SecondEldenLord · 2023-09-19T09:29:48+00:00

So only females should solve their own problems then? What a stupid statement. If this problem ain't recognised by society as a whole, then nothing can be done. If it cannot reach the other half of the population, which is women, then no change can ever happen ever. Showing empathy, talking about it, changing their attitudes towards men in general would help so much. But what do we get instead? We get some nasty responses like the ones shown on this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVKvEaokV6I

Shoeonhead made a video about male loneliness and she got the biggest backlash she ever got by......... you guessed it...... women. "Men deserve to be alone" , "Wahh, poor little men are lonely", "Who gives a fuck about men" are just few nasty comments out of thousands.

So no, men cannot solve this issue by themselves until it is fully recognised by everybody and until the media speaks about it.

Internal-Fig-7902 · 2023-09-18T16:06:36+00:00

The only thing men expect from women is a little bit of understanding and less gaslighting and downplaying men's struggles, as seen on this thread.

RediDitaj · 2023-09-18T19:11:55+00:00

It's not women's fault if men have no empathy for their fellow men.

So why do you shame men when they do have empathy for each other? You call them either gay oncel nazi etc. Why do women hate groups and organisations that are exclusive to men? Why do you try to shut them down? Because you dont want to allow any space for men where women dont police the discourse. You want to tell men what they are or are not allowed to think feel believe.

throwinsilaway · 2023-09-18T20:06:51+00:00

Very wrong, because you can't force yourself to be gay.

Wooshie_Pop · 2023-09-18T15:35:43+00:00

What are you saying the solution is? Men date other men?

And you’re mentioning men controlling the wealth. That’s a small number of men. Even so you are suggesting these men create a system to put more men in power to promote their interests which would erase the equality we currently have.

Billsandasonom · 2023-09-18T22:40:20+00:00

But then you hear feminists say male involvement is absolutely necessary for the feminist movement in all its iterations to succeed....literally shaming men for not caring or taking an interest in women's issues.

ambrosedc · 2023-09-19T13:41:00+00:00

The same thing women constantly ask men to do: have empathy and understanding and not constantly dehumanize and demonize them

JWOnMyWri · 2023-09-19T17:12:43+00:00

Only the black community can solve the black crime epidemic (and most so called black issues)

Only the Islamic community can solve the Islamophobia epidemic (and most so called Muslim issues)

Only the Jewish community can solve the antisemitism epidemic (and most so called Jewish issues)

Now if you wrote any of these headlines, you would be executed by the Redditoors and banned. But since it's men you have no problem to shit on 50% of the population.

"Just pull yourself up by the bootstraps, you loser", yeah sure whatever grandma.

Icy-Sprinkles-638 · 2023-09-19T19:41:11+00:00

When they try - i.e. with things like RP teaching - women cry to the institutions of power to get those efforts shut down. Women have all the power today and it's the ones who have the power who have the responsibility of social change.

PrinceArchie · 2023-09-18T18:43:22+00:00

Ok I'll bite I see this argument a lot.

However, people who promote it rarely propose real solutions. Like, what do you actually accept women to do?

So let me ask you, do you think it's appropriate for the world to say "only women can solve womens issues, what do you want men to do"?

We don't exist in a vacuum in society, even if women claim men can be perpetrators in some womens issues, men aren't the cause of all womens issues and ALL men aren't responsible for holding any other man who commits a crime accountable. We exist in a community, we look out for each other no?

The men in your life I would hope you expect would look out for you and you are expected to care for them in the same manner. This sort of mentality will always get shit on because it's pure selfishness and foolishness. Most people would agree that men have a part to play in solving womens issues and guess what women have a part to play in solving mens issues too.

Do your part. Show empathy to the men in your life, allow them to actually be vulnerable, hold women accountable for holding sexist opinions that unfairly isolate and place all the burden on men, treat men with the same consideration and kindness you would want them to treat you with, etc. I think it's really very simple. Women just like men don't have to do much. I think the real issue lies in the propensity to be willfully spiteful, dismissive or otherwise apathetic to it all.

tiddermacss · 2023-09-18T16:09:28+00:00

is that why women constantly shut down male only spaces calling it sexist?

thisreallyisnotok · 2023-09-18T18:11:52+00:00

Oh look another “not my problem” thread. Typical.

It’s not any specific gender’s fault. It is society’s fault. I advocate for women who suffer from society and I expect women to do the same for men for the relatively smaller set of issues that men endure. Women who can’t bother to do that are just lazy and entitled

throwaway164_3 · 2023-09-18T15:31:34+00:00

It’s neither men’s nor women’s fault.

It’s the result of biological evolution and sexual selection.

Men compete against each other for access to sex, like in other primates. Humans are primates.

GiveBackMyRidgedBand · 2023-09-18T20:17:54+00:00

Any men’s support network will be deemed sexist for catering to men.

Example: There are no more Boy Scouts, because it is now Boy & Girl Scouts…there is however an exclusive Girl Scouts.

Edit. If I was a beautiful feminist woman, I’d become a powerful (married) man’s lover have his child and extortion him for the rest of his life, to do my feminist bidding. Maybe it happens more than we’d like.

Razieloo · 2023-09-18T18:12:14+00:00

Aww, you’re such a sweet person! Thank you for your support!

No-Seaworthiness959 · 2023-09-19T06:02:52+00:00

Men have friends. The so-called loneliness epidemic is mainly about the lack of romantic options for most men.

HamzaAghaEfukt · 2023-09-19T08:14:51+00:00

Men are a huge part of women's support system btw

thedarkracer · 2023-09-19T08:29:09+00:00

>Men control most of the wealth.

The ones who do make up the 5 percent of the population.

> Problems that men face (male draft, unfair custody, etc) men have the power to legally change them

I need to ask, are you living under a rock or something. Even if men do change that hypothetically, do you think the uproar from the women will not be there? Women complain about the wage gap even though most of them would not work as hard as men do like doing more dangerous jobs or working in STEM fields or working overtime. Most of the resistance faced is by men is from women themselves. Every guy here on this sub will attest to being humiliated or made fun of at least one woman in their lives when they opened up to her about their feelings or such. Men don't do that. If you don't know laws are made to benefit all (not exactly successful but still) so the backlash will be really strong from women.

BowelMan · 2023-09-19T13:18:25+00:00

It's women's fault if they have no empathy for men.

meta_narrator · 2023-09-19T18:31:30+00:00

This is absolutist, all or nothing, Dunning-Kruger nonsense.

Everyone should take an IQ test. There's very little difference between men, and women. Especially in terms of responsibilities. Women tend to have a greater roll with regard to raising children (future men), than men do. Our government has made sure of it.

People should compare single-parent households by year to drug arrests of men by year.

Independent_Score217 · 2023-09-20T07:57:27+00:00

Male loneliness is not solved by women. Being married was the loneliest 7 years of my life. Men need male friends, a dog, hobbies... Women aren't even on the list.

Substantial_Video560 · 2023-09-18T20:45:06+00:00

The solution is more men go MGTOW. Start focusing on self development, their careers and hobbies and interesting and less on pursuing and seeking validation from women.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-09-18T16:44:33+00:00

Despite legal equality, it turns out that social constructionism is bullshit. Men and women still operate differently. And at the highest level, we are all stakeholders in our society, with a common responsibility for the whole.

It could be that men do not operate as a gender-based group with solidarity and focus well. It could also be that it is not in women's interests for men to learn how to do so. Either way, I see no need to determine who should address these types of issues along gender lines. Goes for 'women's issues' too. In the end, they are all everyone's issues.

analt223 · 2023-09-18T16:02:31+00:00

Hard disagree. I actually think only women can solve it. The male loneliness epidemic is mostly just do to a couple of cold hard truths:

Women are doing better than men now economically, especially 20, 30, and even some 40 somethings
Women just don't really like men that much (or at least nowhere near as much as men like women)

Women can be integrated into society way easier than men, because men like women's presence in most places more than women like men's presence at places. I know so many women who complain about how there are too many men at wherever it may be: work, gym, social places, stores you run errands, etc. Men just desire women more than the other way around.

AutoModerator · 2023-09-18T15:19:38+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

CountMandrake · 2023-09-18T22:24:52+00:00

Men don't have "a problem", they are just being enslaved through a techno-matriarchal boureaucratic resource transfering-servitude system of bourgeois factory.

To put it simply, most men are the lower working class, women are the middle clas (who also pretty much decides the elections) and then you have a few men at the top of the food chain who cater to women's wishes and whims to stay in power, and uses women as a political speech-shield to enforce state policies that allow them to extract resources for men in the name of equality.

Men do have empathy for their fellow men, it's just that the overwhelming majority of men lack power to do anything.

Men can create support networks for other men. Hell, the history of civilization is men creating support networks for pretty much everyone. But they are not "allowed" to create support networks JUST for men.

And note that I'm not blaming women for men's issues here, it's not women, it's politician.

And once upon a time, it would have been enough for the politician to change their mind by only men starting to build guillotines, the view of it would make those in power have a sudden epiphany about human rights and a fair system.

But since men's work, production and money is directly financing the social network women benefit the most from, any attempt from men to retake part of the power over the social structures they have build would affect women's freedoms. Female empowerment is literally built on men's struggles, and politician know it.

Kosilica457 · 2023-09-18T23:22:07+00:00

Yeah, men control women's standards in dating

Financial_Window_990 · 2023-09-18T23:23:22+00:00

It's not men's fault if women have no empathy for men. Women make up the majority of voters and control 80% of the wealth.

gntlbastard · 2023-09-19T01:23:10+00:00

It is the man's cross to walk the lonely path. Expecting understanding and comfort from the world.....waste of fucking time.

SupposedlySapiens · 2023-09-20T17:55:02+00:00

It’s a systemic issue. There’s nothing that individual men and women can do to change it. Ever since we severed the traditional male-female pair bond, which was based on a sexual division of labor and was the foundational unit of human society for quite literally hundreds of thousands of years, there’s no longer a compelling reason for people to pair up.

There used to be a mutual interdependency among men and women. Now anyone can do anything and no one needs anyone anymore. You could quite literally live your entire life these days without ever interacting with another human, let alone having to put in the effort to build a relationship with them. The very foundation of human society has been made obsolete. The demented drones of modern civilization tell us that this is “progress.”

Wow, what a great world. Such progress. Now women have the “freedom” to be underpaid and overworked, just like men. And when they come home, depressed and exhausted from their pointless job (not a jab at women, the vast majority of all jobs are pointless), they have the “freedom” to sit alone drinking a bottle of wine as they watch some vapid show on Netflix and post on social media about how empowered they are and how men need to “do better”.

Nihi1986 · 2023-09-18T19:35:01+00:00

I have had women pressuring me to not accept specific men in our social groups...you girls are just way too fucking awful to men that you don't like in one way or another...

Male loneliness is mainly a male romantic loneliness epidemic, it's not just social networks, family and friends, it's going for years without romantic relationships (and no, I'm not talking just about sex).

Edit: what we expect women to do? To consider dating normal guys too? To not waste our time so we can find someone who is actually interested? To not demonize men and make us feel like we might be scaring someone or ruining anyone's fun when we 100% don't want to do such things? Dunno, just a few things that could help...

crushmynutsplz · 2023-09-18T15:41:49+00:00

No, men cannot solve their loneliness because we can't make women love us or want to be with us. AI robots are not a substitute for human affection.

Men are 50% of the problem, and women are 50% of the problem. This toxic feminist narrative about how women are not responsible for anything, and men created every problem in the world is just horseshit. The toxic feminists want all the upside, but none of the responsibility in existing in a society that cannot exist without both men and women. If women can figure out a way to make their own sperm and breed without men, then by all means, go do that. Might as well kill off all the men in that case, since you don't need us and all.

2023-09-18T15:48:25+00:00

[permanently deleted]

melindabrown2023 · 2023-09-18T21:22:26+00:00

Something needs to be done about male loneliness. And I think it should be a society wide effort (just like we expect that white people help end racism, or that heterosexuals support the gay rights movement).

However, getting women to date lonely, single isn't the solution. Why? Because you can't force women to date men they don't want to. Instead, we need to focus on building relationships between men. Men need more male spaces, support networks, activity groups etc so they can connect with one another. One reason why women are happy single is because they can get their social and emotional needs met by other women. Men need to start doing the same.

Cablepussy · 2023-09-19T09:25:11+00:00

So you see the issue here is when men make support groups/safe spaces you know what happens?

They’re called sexist and shut down.

princedune · 2023-09-18T16:25:08+00:00

Men already had a solution to the problem, and I don't think women want to go back to those days.

obviousredflag · 2023-09-18T15:36:23+00:00

We hear a lot about the male loneliness epidemic and I accept it as a true phenomenon.

Do you also hear about how the difference in loneliness between men and women is very small? Do you accept this as a true phenomenon? How does this change your view?

Wolvengirla88 · 2023-09-19T01:23:57+00:00

Women should be helping men learn to express their emotions rather than mocking them every time they try. Just saying.

abaxeron · 2023-09-18T21:06:02+00:00

Can we stop pretending that women did not spend the last couple centuries deliberately destabilizing, destroying, and dismembering men's support networks, and even the bonds between fathers and sons, and throughout it all proudly saying that it's ackshully a good thing? But I like your solution. Yes, men are the strongest (slightly less than) half of our species, the most powerful, the richest. And I hope you understand that if men used this strength, power, and wealth to help each other, what term women would use to call this new order. "The patriarchy".

And yes, indeed, men need to learn to stop giving a damn what women say. But I have a strong suspicion that this is not what you meant.

Fire_Tiger73 · 2023-09-18T16:12:17+00:00

However, it is womens' fault if they have no empathy for men. It is womens' fault if they sabotage men making support networks.

If there are problems that men face, (like circumcision, the male draft, unfair custody etc.) men have the power to legally change them.

No. Women make up a larger segment of the electorate. Men don't have power like that.

Safinated · 2023-09-18T17:11:16+00:00

Of course women can solve the male loneliness epidemic. By spreading our legs/having them spread for us whenever a man wants it. So what if we don’t want to and are condemned for it? What matters is that men are happy and get what they want.

Appropriate-Ad-8030 · 2023-09-18T19:05:32+00:00

That is true…women don’t care about unattractive men…in fact, I think they hate unattractive men from what I’ve been reading…men will need to form new organizations to deal with the problems…

No-Seaworthiness959 · 2023-09-19T06:02:40+00:00

Men have friends. The so-called loneliness epidemic is mainly about the lack of romantic options for most men.

HamzaAghaEfukt · 2023-09-19T08:15:58+00:00

True. We cant expect women to support men in the same way that men support women

intent_joy_love · 2023-09-19T11:35:19+00:00

Imagine if you bitches had continued whining about inequality and we said “well women need to solve that for themselves idk what you expect men to do” as if they ever could

Antisocialite99 · 2023-09-18T16:59:46+00:00

Men don't just want male friends. They would like female friends. Shocking, I know.

Its not mens fault if women these days commonly have the attitude that male loneliness is a male problem, and not their concern, and that they don't want to be friends with men because men are problematic etc etc etc.

Appropriate-Ad-8030 · 2023-09-18T19:07:53+00:00

We don’t need to build support networks like women do…we are not women…I could think of no worse fate than being in some god awful retreat with a bunch of sissified guys talking about my feelings and engaging in other forms of emotional masturbation…guys need support networks for men…not emulate the support networks of women

Ludens0 · 2023-09-18T19:43:59+00:00

Only men can solve problems.

EuphoricBrightTipper · 2023-09-18T22:32:53+00:00

Well, only women can really be independent and do their own stuff instead bitching and legally bullying men to do stuff for them and pay for their bastards.

reeko12c · 2023-09-19T00:48:37+00:00

It's a class issue. Lower-class men are treated like they are disposable, all while being ridiculed and mocked. You see women do this all the time, but NOT just women. Men do it all the time, if not more. Men are always their greatest enemies and women get dragged along for the ride.

ignitedwolf9200 · 2023-09-18T17:21:21+00:00

Yep yep yep. I’ve witnessed with my own eyes how men call other men gAy because they have shown their peers vulnerability and emotion. It happens way too often and they truly do it to themselves. They can go ahead and fix it

63daddy · 2023-09-18T16:00:30+00:00

While I think there are more lonely men, I think media overplays the issue. Most men who are single are single by choice, not incels. They are happier being single than they are with available options.
The problem as it does exist isn’t caused by individual men. Hypergamy, discrimination against males in education, advantaging women in job hiring, and business,biased family law, inflation and all the other factors making it harder for women to marry up and be supported are social issues that individual men have no control over.

Society has fundamentally changed in ways that make it harder for women to marry up the way they’ve always wanted to. To address this problem , we need to address the changes. Telling men to change won’t solve the issue.

TomKikkert · 2023-09-18T18:09:24+00:00

It’s starts with women not seeing men as wallets on legs.

As soon as men stop doing stuff for women because they are women the happier men will w

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2023-09-18T18:17:31+00:00

The number of single mothers begs to differ.

Men can't be masculine and brooding (what women are actually attracted to) and emotionally vulnerable and soft (what women claim to be attracted to) simultaneously. Women need to figure out what they are attracted to and stop virtue signaling.

the_calibre_cat · 2023-09-18T21:19:38+00:00

Agreed. Ideally by not turning to Andrew Tate-esque fuckwads - they're charlatan grifters who offer nothing meaningful.

_Remember_me_not_ · 2023-09-19T01:16:27+00:00

This is the worst take of all the misandrist ones. Just think, if men were to say the same thing about the problems women face, like why men have to pay taxes to support single mothers, women crime victims, shelters for women or why help women who are victims of crimes because average men are not the criminals, the women should just deal with the criminals themselves. Just think, if men were so apathetic about women's situation during the past and left them to their own device instead of helping them to uplift themselves.

But it's okay, it's illogical to expect something sane from women who think issues of men does not concern them but come running back right to men when there is some serious issues in society.

This is the average independent and strong women of the western society, it is better to skip these hoes completely.

Remember this attitude next time you see a woman being beaten up by some crooks or robbed by some drug addicts, why should men help them when the women never help themselves?

AssistTemporary8422 · 2023-09-19T17:22:00+00:00

If there are problems that men face, (like circumcision, the male draft, unfair custody etc.) men have the power to legally change them.

These men's rights issues aren't really related to male loneliness.

It's not women's fault if men are worse at creating support networks.

People tend to be a lot friendlier to women than the men and its a lot easier for women to make friends. So maybe don't prejudge someone as dangerous or wanting to date you just because he is a man. Also if a man opens up and shows emotions don't treat him like he is being effeminate.

It's not women's fault if men have no empathy for their fellow men.

Its not that they don't feel empathy. Its that they feel they won't be accepted if they try to open up.

However, people who promote it rarely propose real solutions. Like, what do you actually accept women to do?

Women can support better mental health services in general which should help men and boys.

iassureyouimreal · 2023-09-19T20:34:10+00:00

You’re right.

illusive-man-00 · 2023-09-18T16:44:54+00:00

Well this can all be solved by following the great and mighty God of Israel/Chris Jesus.

God set in play at the beginning what you call the “Patriarchy.” In this society men rule at the top and set in order everything at the bottom (females had no control over most of their sexual choices as you would end up with what you see in 2023 lol) they were the head managing Society but also not ruling women and raping etc as some people like to claim. These things were punishable by death if you read the Torah as God doesn’t allow these things as every man was meant to have at least his own wife.

American and any other nation not serving God and following the Torah/New Testament will have nothing but straight Chaos with women/Ashtoreth/false Goddesses at the top to guide it smh.

Man cannot fix this as he is up against darker spiritual forces pushing an agenda at the top of all this madness.

stormjet123 · 2023-09-18T17:51:35+00:00

I agree with this as a man.

BadMuch2033 · 2023-09-18T21:27:18+00:00

Women waking up has made it more difficult for men to achieve success with patriarchal behaviors.

The problem is, the men who are successful are still primarily using patriarchal behaviors to do so. The bar has just been raised.

The men who are successful, who have the means and power to extend a helping hand to their lonely brethren, won't help. Because successful patriarchs don't care to assist wouldbe patriarchs, generally speaking.

Individual men just need to be more okay with extended periods of time spent alone. And realize that guys who "get to be fuck buddies" for young women, are basically just male prostitutes. Simps of the highest degree, don't worry about it.

Dstar538888 · 2023-09-18T22:08:26+00:00

These men are not looking for solutions to these “problems” of theirs at all…they want us to take all our clothes off and have sex with them without requiring ANYTHING from them at all… if we require looks, money, good hygiene, good personality, good dick, or literally anything at all from them, we get told that our standards are too high and we are evil for only going for the “top males” while refusing to have sex with all these wonderful “nice, average guys”…

they don’t want solutions from women, they just want us to make our bodies more easily accessible to them… they’ll run up under my post trying to deny this, but if you really pay attention to the way they talk and blame women for these male “issues,” that’s basically what they’re complaining about and it’s not our responsibility to date or sleep with men that we don’t want just to make them feel better… but a lot of men in this sub seem to think otherwise🙃

florinzel · 2023-09-18T19:45:55+00:00

They should go Ancient Greek style and just have sex with each other. There, problem solved

Able-Imagination3695 · 2023-09-18T21:14:48+00:00

I agree, but good luck getting this sub to agree with you.

The biggest issue I find that these men experience is that instead of going out into the world and befriending sociable men who do not struggle with women and learning a thing or two off them is that the end up associating with weak men on the internet and leaning on a group of men who are admitted failures for support. Misery begets misery.

The echo chamber is born. And, these same men end up getting something they've never experienced before: a boost of validation. By a community. That agrees with them.

A lot of the issues RP men have is actually with other men and the rules of engagement set up, carried out, and enforced by other men. They hate women - or at the least hold a huge amount of resentment towards them - for playing along. I'm sorry, but they're mad at the wrong group. It's a lot like broke guys who worship Elon Musk - they refuse to criticize the problem because they secretly hope to be a part of that group.

These same guys also struggle with bonding with their peers in real life. They do not get the validation or approval of strong men with status. I guarantee most of them have struggled with being accepted or respected as a man by their own father, if said father figure was ever really present. There's so much centering masculinity and being a real man in the RP manosphere, but neither of these guys would generate actual respect - much less validation or even admiration - by well established men.

IMO, redpill is the result of a deep insecurity in a man's masculinity, in part by the expectations put in place by other men as a means of competing and establishing hierarchy with one another.

And, its a vicious cycle. Do you think a strong, well-established, sociable man with status, a strong social network, a wife and family wants to be associated with a redpill man? No. He doesn't. Do you think most women would be thrilled if they found out their boyfriend was a redpill man? She'd probably dump him on the spot out of sheer embarrassment.

SuccessfulLibrary996 · 2023-09-18T16:09:52+00:00

But they don't and never will because men are inclined to compete against each other and see each other as rivals, if not enemies. Just look at how immigration and male outgroups are talked about virtually all over the world and this is plainly obvious.

Military-aged migrant

Pajeet (bobs and vagene amirite?)

Ricecel

Sexpat

Inner city.ghetto male

Men will only see each other as part of the same ingroup if they're very closely related genetically and there's an outsider to band together against, and even then as soon as the outgroup is out of the way they'll start tearing each other to shreds again and putting each other down as creeps and effeminates, aggressive rapists, pedos, or whatever for the attention of women. Women were able to band together in solidarity because it comes more natural for them to see each other as on the same team and to be nice to each other. Men just can't or at least won't, and it can't really be changed because of instinct.

Men cope with the comrades-in-arms bullshit but that just furthers my point: even guys who are actually trying to bolster the idea of male solidarity have to reach unironically for the unfortunate example of men whose job it is to literally shoot, burn, bludgeon and beat groups of other men to death in order to try and make their unconvincing point. It's all pretty dark really.

ZeeMark17 · 2023-09-18T17:17:36+00:00

Wait, when did circumcision become a problem?

MarauderSlayer44 · 2023-09-18T18:27:27+00:00

Nah. Nobody chooses which gender OR sex they’re born as, which means the gendered expectations and struggles are also involuntary. Thus it’s nobody’s specific expectation to fix anything except those who are equipped to be able to. Physicists do physics, chemists chemistry, and people who make good friends and social connections would be best equipped to help socially isolated people. But we live in a simultaneously materialistic and narcissistic society, so people with those tools just use them to live the best individual lives possible. Just like those with all the economic resources hoarded that never actually systematically help anyone and advocate against anyone else doing it too. This is the logical endgame to the reasoning of “nobody is entitled to anything”. You asked for this. Not us.

stromyoloing · 2023-09-18T18:27:45+00:00

Most men after a certain age are either only interested in hanging around their childhood friends and or not interested in socializing regularly with other fellow men

AidsVictim · 2023-09-18T18:49:08+00:00

However, people who promote it rarely propose real solutions. Like, what do you actually accept women to do?

Vote for and practice lifestyles conducive to cross gender social bond and family formation. Pretending women can't do anything isn't true - women largely just don't want to give up what they perceive as a "good deal", that being that they largely don't have any social expectations or consequences as a libertarian consumer, regardless of whether it gives men or women better outcomes.

Men are half of the population, most of the politicians, they control most of the wealth. If there are problems that men face, (like circumcision, the male draft, unfair custody etc.) men have the power to legally change them. The fact that men don't use their power to promote the interests of their fellow men is a men's problem and it's unreasonable to expect women to do something about it.

This would be dependent on a total re arrangement of political and social power a long a gendered axis, which I promise you women don't want. Even women with a much stronger "gender consciousness" largely don't give a shit about "women" as a group beyond how it effects their individual outcomes.

More identity politics is not the solution for society and is likely to drive men and women apart even further, not "fix" men.

I am not saying it's not sad, but I don't get what you expect women to do. Men need to learn to build support networks the way women do.

Men do not have womens socialization style and never will. The way modern women live is not "healthy" for society or themselves, why would we want men to emulate it even if it they could?

MistyMaisel · 2023-09-18T19:06:20+00:00

I don't think comparing the average joe schmoe to Joe Biden or the men in congress is necessarily a super kosher thing, so I wouldn't say that's a fair thing to put on men.

I think addressing things like unfair custody is something which would benefit both men, women, and most importantly the child so yes, women should be pushing for that or not opposing it. (That is not to say letting men off the hook for their children, it is rather to say not allowing them to pay and skip town, but rather forcing them to be in their children's lives (provided of course they aren't like abusive or dangerous). Assuming women want what is best for their children, they need to see beyond their own blind rage at the man, and push for his involvement in the lives of his children because we just know that's better for them than not in the majority of cases.

In terms of the draft, I think anyone who is anti-war should oppose mandated participation in war by anyone, including young men. This doesn't need to be a gender issue so much as a peace > war issue. I think this again is often true that women can participate because it's usually our children (teenage boys) that the military recruitment efforts go after. And we could stand in the way of this to some small extent and push for the draft to either be universalized or voluntary.

I'm pro-circumcision for the most part for both petty trivial reasons and some health reasons, but we know most of the time it's mothers signing off on this. So if someone is against it, again, the need to get the mothers on board. It's just reality that the person deciding so much of what happens to children in their infancy is women and not men. So women can support men if they choose to in this thing.

***
With all of that said, I really don't think circumcision or the military is playing a key role in male loneliness, so I think discussing this at all here is stupid.

I think men are responsible to solve their own loneliness issues, and I do not think the government is ever going to be an ideal way to do that sort of thing because it is so interpersonal and cultural.

I agree I do not think women can generally help solve it, especially as men present it here which often devolves into some equivalent of, "why won't you fuck us or be our girlfriends". I do think female friendship can help with loneliness and is generally much lower stakes.

But, I think the key issue is as you suggest, most men aren't helping each other. They are not "really" friends. They do not really connect deeply with each other. They take on a competitive posture with each other rather than a supportive and cooperative posture, and they often will not be vulnerable with each other (or anyone else) until they're so deep in the ragu that getting them out is next to asking for a miracle or years of hard-work.

And they fantasize that if it were a sexual or romantic relationship, suddenly they could do this, but the truth is, they couldn't. They'll just do the same person to someone who is not going to accept this kind of radical instability and trauma and chaos.

And yes, they do need to fix this. I'm not convinced male only spaces will work unless they have a more feminine coded interaction style because I think they already have that in the online space and it is not helping them out, it's driving them deeper and deeper.

Finally, this is just me, I don't think we really have a loneliness epidemic, I think we have a meaning epidemic, and that is even more difficult to solve.

cromulent_weasel · 2023-09-18T19:25:12+00:00

I think a good way to look at this problem is by considering 1970, when boys were outperforming girls in education at everything. The prevailing wisdom at the time was that girls just aren't very smart and should focus on their 'core business', i.e. being a wife and mother.

Now, a girl underachieving at school is a combination of her abilities and the systemic forces in play around her.

To paraphrase your words, 'what do you expect men to do? The only ones who can do something about it are women themselves. It's not men's fault if women don't have the ability to score well on tests, and aren't able to advance at higher education.'.

It's not womens fault that society treats and conditions men this way. It's everybodies fault. And that includes women.

Men being raised essentially to be emotional cripples (boys don't cry) isn't the fault of any one individual. We're all in this together.

To make things worse, there's also an 'empathy gap'. people just have less empathy for the problems men go through, and that's a clear subtext in your post (blaming men for the 1%, victim blaming men for being emotionally damaged by their societal upbringing).

Men need to learn to build support networks the way women do.

Men should just be women, and do things the way women do. Except that men aren't women. That's why therapy isn't as good for men (their default patient and all of their treatment techniques are women centric) in much the same way that the medical system at large treats men as the default and often treats womens complaints in a subpar manner because they aren't presenting the way a man (the default) would.

Highflyer47 · 2023-09-18T19:49:51+00:00

It can only be "solved" by having societal forces also push for change. Women's issues have been getting more attention due to increased societal pushes from not just men but also social institutions around the world. Not saying those issues dont still plague society (they arent not solved yet), but any movement or social issue can only gain traction if society as a relative whole makes a collective push

Spare-Estimate5596 · 2023-09-18T21:24:33+00:00

Men have to accept that most of you wont have a wife and kids and if you do have it you can lose it.

This-Adhesiveness-52 · 2023-09-18T23:10:51+00:00

Having a wife is a lifestyle, you will have kids, buy a family home etc... This life is not cheap and you be working non-stop, wives are very demanding and will only have sex when they feel like it. This is a grind all the way, the juice is not worth the squeeze. You end up with an old obese women you don’t even want to sleep with anymore. This life is hard and won’t bring you the hapiness you desire.

The expenses on everything, house, wive, kids, trips, food etc... will cost you between 2/4 - 3/4 of you’re monthly pay. Thats like a 1200 dollar/euro or more. The sexual average in the West is only 4 times a month. There many who don’t even make that average and the costs of this life keeps getting bigger.

You better of staying single, 1200 euro expenses a month being married to a women. That’s like 14 hookers a month you can get for that cash. You could be having sex every 3 day’s for the same price as being married and you don’t have to put in any effort. You can try out new girls. Some new ass every 3 day’s. Why take the risk to marry a women? Love fades and worstcase you end up divorced, bankrupt.

The men who feel alone don’t know how to live, just focus on making more money. Get a side job etc... Work more hours. Finds somewhere cheap to live. Make you’re life easy and you be happy.

Spyro7x3 · 2023-09-19T01:39:59+00:00

No man can solve the turning of the spheres. It is an age of lonliness, arrogance, ungodliness, passions

ViolentMagician1 · 2023-09-19T03:34:46+00:00

If all men banded together in solidarity and put the right laws in place they could end it tomorrow and there wouldn't be a damn thing women could do about it. Men are the stronger sex and have all the pollical power.

LunarMoldavite · 2023-09-19T04:05:21+00:00

I… Don’t really see the point in trying to blame women or say it’s women’s jobs to fix it because the loneliness from what I understand is more complex than pining it on one group of people. This has to do with the economy we face today, social media, apps related to dating, and probably more that I’m forgetting about.

It honestly concerns me that people talk about the male loneliness epidemic and most women’s/media’s response is to either humiliate lonely men (seen way too many responses saying that the suicide rate should be higher and other messed up crap) or say “Why is this issue up to women to solve?” When the reality is that many of the lonely men out there just want to be acknowledged or understood, and that’s also why they’ll sometimes end up following people who are hella toxic since those very people take advantage of their loneliness by actually acknowledging them (men in the comments can correct me on any of this, willing to listen).

Idk if you ever saw it, but months ago there was a trans man who made a video crying about this very problem and explained that (paraphrasing) “It can be very hard to connect with other men or find meaningful companionship and that only after transitioning to male can they see it”. I can agree on your support network comment though, as I have given advice to some of my LD male friends to join groups or pages related to interests they have to start there, or to go to places (like in-person classes or events of their interests) where they can connect with new friends. The worst that could happen is getting told that they aren’t looking for friends, but tbh I wouldn’t be surprised if the person in question would be really happy to have someone to talk to!

Edited to fix some of my phrasing

WillyDonDilly69 · 2023-09-19T05:42:29+00:00

Do you think once a men is an relationship everything is perfect and there are not still double standards against him. Also there are legal disadvantages things that women don't seem to bother like only women's day for example

Patrickstarho · 2023-09-19T06:15:58+00:00

Third monitor changed everything for me

No-Click9406 · 2023-09-21T01:44:56+00:00

just buy hookers and cocaine 🤷🏾‍♂️

YearnsToDestroySun · 2023-09-21T09:23:01+00:00

I just expect women to date in their leagues (as with men).

If everyone did that, 2's match 2:s, 9's pair up with other 9's, 5's with 5's, no one is lonely then.

This would have to mean for women to all stop going after 9's when they are actually a 5, and males that are 9's refusing this sort of easy sex :/

but society has no grounded rational sense 😔

Fire_Stoic14 · 2023-09-21T18:37:32+00:00

With all due respect, a good start is for you women to leave the red pill/purple pill spaces. You invade these spaces and fuck it up for men the same way you do with other things in society like pushing social constructs that weaken men, and making every movie female led with male soyboy superheroes. These spaces aren't catered to you the same way makeup is not catered for men; these spaces are specifically for men only. And plus you already fucked up by saying men control all the wealth lol; women control all the wealth. That's why every commercial/marketing is catered toward women and not men because women are the primary consumers, like 80% of the consumer base. Even Gillette, a primarily male dominant consumer base, created a commercial attacking masculinity.

The one space where men feel glorified which is the purple/red pill you try to fuck it up. Nah, get out. That's the best start for men to be great again. You don't understand a man's struggles and can't empathize with it. You can sympathize, but you can't necessarily empathize because you're a woman and you can only see things from your perspective.

One-Store2972 · 2023-09-21T19:32:44+00:00

And only women can solve women’s issue. There, now stop complaining about the patriarchy to us

Title	Only men can solve the male loneliness epidemic (and most so called male issues)
Author	Novel-Tip-7570
Upvotes	90
Comments	495
Date	September 18, 2023 3:19 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/16lydhp/only_men_can_solve_the_male_loneliness_epidemic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/only-men-can-solve-the-male-loneliness-epidemic.1232252 https://theredarchive.com/post/1232252

Comments