Can men just not be loved for who they actually are?

VoltairesBarista · 2024-02-25T19:31:47+00:00

Just date someone that accepts you for who you are? Thats what I do.

martianspringtime · 2024-02-25T20:30:13+00:00

honestly - and this goes for a lot of people, male or female, and not just you, op - you need to take a step back from being whatever-pilled and realize that in real life, most people are just looking for someone they’re compatible with. unless you’re a complete buffoon, someone will accept you. and by that i essentially mean not being a complete jerk. stop letting niche communities online where people tend to speak in extremes, platitudes, and cynicism dictate how you move in the world. you only get a small window into how people think and perceive online. people oversimplify their mindsets online. ‘someone will love you for who you are’ doesn’t mean ‘be a complete imbecile, you have the right to be loved!’, it means you don’t have to fit some super specific ‘type’ to find someone who will be into you.

theories and belief systems etc are all good and meaningful, but they’re not the end all be all of humanity.

TRTGymBro · 2024-02-25T20:01:02+00:00

It's funny to me that TRP has started this whole shebang of "women are loved unconditionally" when a cursory look at most posts and comments on here will show you that most men have anything but love for women in general. Maybe they mistake their desperate need for vagina for love, but even then, it seems those men love the vagina but are quite annoyed by the person it is attached to.

So again, not sure who came up with the whole "women are loved for who they are unconditionally", when evidence to the contrary is constantly on full display right here.

EulenWatcher · 2024-02-25T19:20:42+00:00

People have to appeal to others in order to be liked. Women aren’t loved for who they are, men are drawn to them due to higher libido but it doesn’t mean men actually love women. We all have to provide some good to the other party in order to keep them interested and most love is condition which is fine.

Ideally bringing this good to the table feels natural and it’s something you want to do. I.e. if you and your partner are compatible and love each other, you actively want to please them and doing so doesn’t feel like a hard task or task at all. Most people still have to learn to love their partners in a way their partners want it though and it’s just a part of growing together.

It isn’t realistic to try to break and mold yourself into your total opposite. Still if you struggle with dating, trying to improve and work on your shortcomings is a good idea and advice both for men and women. It’s one thing to be introverted and another to be socially isolated and unable to hold a conversation. Also realistically to find a partner you have to meet some new people whether you’re introverted or not. Apps don’t seem to work for a lot of people and you can’t expect that a partner just falls into your laps.

To sum it up, you need balance. Trying to pretend to be who you are not most likely will backfire, but actually improving your skills and working on your social circle are solid advice.

Pitiful_Bug_3028 · 2024-02-25T19:45:10+00:00

Only one who is gonna love you for who are is maybe your mother? If I gained 60 pounds and stopped taking care of my mental and physical health, I doubt any man would wanna love me. By that point I wouldn’t blame him. 🤷🏾‍♀️

SupposedlySapiens · 2024-02-25T20:59:05+00:00

I mean yeah, duh. “Yourself” still has to have some attractive qualities.

But it’s so ridiculous to keep seeing these posts arguing that men have to be some kind of ubermasculine Superman in order to have any success with women. Assuming you’re halfway normal and not ugly as sin, “just be yourself” is perfectly good advice. Tbh I wish I learned that earlier.

Adventurous_Track784 · 2024-02-25T19:37:23+00:00

It’s literally the same for women. Self improvement is essential for success in life.

ConanTheCybrarian · 2024-02-25T20:16:59+00:00

Men can afford to be introverted, shy, nerdy or like gaming. She will still have men who love her for who she is, and even if she is struggling, nobody will suggest her to change who she is. But men? No. Those are negative traits and they need to be changed.

My husband is shy, nerdy, and likes gaming. His intellect and shyness are part of what attracted me to him. All the other guys who persued me were into performing masculinity so overtly and he was just...himself. And his self is thoughful, artistic, clever, and introverted. In fact, I cannot think of ONE shy, nerdy gamer I know who is not in a LTR. Your assessment is straight up not true in my experience

If you are pursuing women who aren't attracted to your personality, perhaps you need to reconsider where/ how you are doing so. You asking women who don't like you to start liking you is exactly the same as them asking you to change your personality to be liked.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-02-25T19:23:24+00:00

Women can afford to be introverted, shy, nerdy or like gaming. She will still have men who love her for who she is

Are you sure they love who she is or what she has?

Konoha_Shinobee · 2024-02-25T19:51:29+00:00

It seems like "just be yourself" is only viable when "yourself" is good enough to attract.

Yes, obviously.

Like what do you want people to do? Women can't choose what they're attracted to.

It's almost like men have to be a specific type of person to be loved.

Yes.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-02-25T19:16:58+00:00

These men are choosing to go for women who aren’t attracted to “who they actually are” because they want those women.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-02-25T21:09:18+00:00

they can if who they are is actually lovable to some particular woman who meets them

GeneralFig6053 · 2024-02-25T21:46:50+00:00

I’m really confused to be loved you have to actually have positive attributes that people love and admire about you and want to spend time with you . When you say you want men to be loved for who they are . Give me an example of this that something people should generally look at and think this person is great but are not doing ?

Ppdebatesomental · 2024-02-25T21:21:17+00:00

Oh great, another post about “ men have no standards, but women do so that makes them big meanies”

First, men absolutely have standards. They expect someone not much older, not much fatter, and not ugly.

So women can be introverted, shy and nerdy? But can they be masculine, bitchy, too prudish , too slutty, too aggressive, or too ambitious? Most guys would find at least some of those traits at some level to be negative and needing to be changed

Second, no one likes you for who you are, if who you are sucks. Except maybe your mom.

Have standards. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having high expectations for your partner. Then try to become the person who deserves the person they want to be with.

Toxic_LigmaMale · 2024-02-25T21:41:51+00:00

This is asinine. You’re either lovable or you aren’t. If you aren’t, you need to learn to be.

GridReXX · 2024-02-25T21:54:05+00:00

We who are loved are all loved because we inspire affection toward us in others. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t know be loved. It is an action. If I stopped inspiring it, the love would dwindle.

This goes for friendships too.

Suzcval · 2024-02-25T23:03:07+00:00

Nobody, yes even women, is "loved for who they are". Romantic love as a concept only exists because of our feelings regarding that person, not some higher cosmic "who they are" concept - If you're dating someone and they become less physically attractive or they start treating you worse, your feelings are going to fade over time, and if they don't that's an issue with you and not some overarching gender-critical social message.

Pretty_Transition908 · 2024-02-26T01:54:27+00:00

Personally I think men and people of all kinds can find (and do find) human connection.

BEFORE ANSWER: If you’re within “not a criminal or super toxic” and just have annoying/bad/difficult traits then you will absolutely still be empathised with by others or be given friendship or connection however it comes. (Even people who are abusive or toxic find this)

Almost all people are offered and given human connection in the form their personality/environment/context allows, and “just be yourself” is definitely viable to a good majority of humanity in attracting human connection. Making it a good connection, or with good people or maintaining it takes work, and is dependant on culture sure.

But nothing about what you’ve said would be a reason for the majority of people to not interact with you (some might be over sympathetic/ some might be judgy/ some might keep you at an arms length/ but definitely a good amount of people will see you as an acquaintance or friend or coworker/ and different groups of people will relate to you or find you familiar and comfortable). However who you attract, and what kind of connection might not be who or what you want or feel you deserve- that one’s on you- but you will definitely attract people in general.

ACTUAL ANSWER: Now you’ll notice this whole time I’ve been saying human connection and not romantic or sexual.

Because I reckon this is where the crux of your conflict is: You do deserve human connection, as everyone does, and you being yourself is more than enough to attract that. To have good connections, attract good people, and maintain it through interpersonal issues will take effort and work, and “just being yourself” won’t be enough for that one.

Romantic and sexual relationships fall into the second category of “specific extra type of human connection that you have to work at”, and you seem to think they fall into “normal offers of human connection we all deserve”.

Nah man- you being yourself is enough to have a conversation with a neighbour, to be considered a citizen of whatever country you’re in, to be given aid or support in crisis, to have small talk with a stranger, to find a coworker to talk to, or a community that gets you, and hopefully a friend or two who gives a shit about you. Those are all normal and all people deserve that, and almost all can have it by virtue of being themselves. But a long term best friend? Healthy familial relationships? A good respected enriching community, instead of just the one you fell into? A sexual or romantic relationship? All of those take work and effort and you do not deserve them for “just being yourself”

(I will say though, the common responses of “be a totally different person” is also a shitty shortcut response to that coz that also falls apart eventually. To have anything in the “extra human connections” category - you gotta take who you are now and better it and add social and emotional skills and put work in- that’s the only real long term solution. And who you are right now is an absolutely fine starting point and is deserving of typical, basic connection and empathy, but it is not enough for EXTRA/ HEALTHY human relations - which romantic/sexual relationships fall into)

TLDR; feeling injustice to not be able to find human connection or empathy or socialisation by “being yourself” is absolutely fair- we all need and deserve that. But a romantic or sexual relationship, or any healthy long term relationship, is not in the “normal human connection we intrinsically deserve” category, it’s actually a step up and in the “relationship and benefits that takes effort” category.

[Like respect- basic human respect and rights? Intrinsic and deserved by virtue of existing Respect where people look up to you or appreciate you or listen to you? That takes work man You’re only allowed to find not having things in the “basic” category upsetting and unjust if it’s not given to you for just existing and being yourself- that’s 100% fair. But you do not get to be mad or pissed about people not giving you things beyond the “basic package” if you haven’t upgraded beyond that yourself] [also I feel like I repeated myself a lot here but I’m gonna leave it like that so hopefully what I’m saying has more chance to land] Sorry it’s so long

apresonly · 2024-02-25T19:33:30+00:00

They should be by their mom and dad

but thats pretty much it

same as women

unconditional love is for children by their parents only

Green-Quantity1032 · 2024-02-25T19:50:29+00:00

No, no one is loved for "who they actually are", that concept is made up by weird romanticists with too much free time and too low IQ, happy to help.

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Yongaia · 2024-02-25T20:09:41+00:00

Not in this society, no. Men are rated for their superficial traits (height, money, jawline) as well as their social dominance. No one gives a fuck about how good of a person you are.

In a more just world perhaps but obviously we don't live in that kind of world.

Gravel_Roads · 2024-02-25T19:17:34+00:00

No, men are not going to be "loved' just for being men, some men are really shitty so that'd be silly.

Some men are awesome, don't get me wrong, but what makes them awesome are their choices and behaviors. They're unique and special, that's what makes them awesome. Because men are not inherently awesome.

(and before the BUT WOMEN ARE WONDERFUL people start wailing, yes, I apply that to women as well. Some are awesome. Most are shitty. This is what makes the awesome ones stand out.)

Few-Laugh-6508 · 2024-02-25T20:27:10+00:00

This has got to be an exhausting way to live.

Safinated · 2024-02-25T19:20:38+00:00

Why should people just want to have sex with you for who you are? Would you fuck yourself?

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-02-25T20:19:49+00:00

Welcome to the extravert-biased world, hermano. It's everywhere, not just romance/relationship stuff.

SnooMarzipans6929 · 2024-02-25T21:05:12+00:00

You're just not investing time in the right women.

captainhowdy82 · 2024-02-26T01:15:56+00:00

You don’t have to be a specific type of person. You just have to not be a shitty type of person.

Warm_Gur8832 · 2024-02-26T04:27:49+00:00

No. But neither can women.

I think a lot of the issues between men and women stem from us not realizing that the other side of the coin feels similarly.

Even if not about the exact same things, they have the exact same feelings about something.

enbaelien · 2024-02-26T11:35:08+00:00

It's almost like men have to be a specific type of person to be loved.

Yes lol literally.

If you want friends it's best not to be a sociopath and/or narcissist who drives people away over time.

If you want kids it's best to focus on your career early so you can afford them later and work on any trauma you may have so you're over it before kids are a thing.

If you want to get laid you're going to have to be desirable i.e. attractive. That can mean something to many different people. For example, the folks who haven't gotten over their childhood trauma are the ones attracted to douchebags. Some people care less about looks than confidence. Some people care more about dancing or your bank account, like it's just to varied to say only one certain aspect works, but when you average out everyone's tastes you get the stereotypes you already know about. It's definitely going to be harder dating if you aren't conventionally attractive or funny or talented etc. Not impossible, but A LOT harder.

Freevoulous · 2024-02-26T13:41:14+00:00

There are plenty of ways men can be "shaped" and atract women. Women are tribal-minded and thus predominantly attracted to men of their own "tribe" or a niche. A gymrat girl is likely to pick a gymrat guy over a Goth guy or a shy nerd, whereas a Goth girl or a nerdy girl would make opposite choices.

The men benefit most NOT from being shaped into the "generic hot guy" but into "SPECIFIC hot guy" perfect for their niche.

There is no point in trying to be the Perfect Basic Chad in your city, the competition is insane. But if you are the Handsomest Burly Ginger Guy Who Plays Bagpipes in the whole Highlander Reenactment Society, you are very likely to get laid by ginger-lovin' women.

Its all about cornering the niche market.

Cooperfive · 2024-02-25T22:17:25+00:00

Wow, who would’ve thought you have to be likable and fun to be wanted? You’re not entitled to a girlfriend for existing

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-02-25T20:28:46+00:00

You will not be loved for who you are if who you are is unattractive. If your natural personality doesn’t attract the opposite sex & keep them around, then you’re just not as lovable as you think you are. Hard pill to swallow.

Maybe to your parents and some friends you’re worthy of love.

Mayfloweronthewall · 2024-02-25T19:17:44+00:00

No one is loved for who they are in this world. Those men don’t love those women, they just want sex. They could care less about her personality as long as she offers up what’s between her legs. They just assume introverted/shy women are naive enough to give it up without much of a hassle or effort on their part, there’s no love there.

MattPayneWrestler · 2024-02-25T19:43:51+00:00

“Can men just be loved for who they are?”

No.

AdventurousTie8034 · 2024-02-25T20:32:56+00:00

I don't think that having to play games, using charisma and confidence all the time would mean to be loved. To me it sounds more as "man can't be loved at all".

qwertyuduyu321 · 2024-02-25T20:52:40+00:00

Can men just not be loved for who they actually are?

Yes, men can be loved for who they are but that's just not most men.

RetroRoberino · 2024-02-25T22:33:16+00:00

This seems to be the exact truth, unfortunately

DeepHouseDJ007 · 2024-02-26T01:37:08+00:00

So you want women to find boring guys with no social skills who play video games and don’t even work out to stay fit or be remotely attractive… attractive?

silver_letter_opener · 2024-02-26T03:00:34+00:00

as a girl with few friends and 0 romantic prospects, trust me. nobody is loving my loser ass for who i am. i think it's just that certain people are more compatible than others. i try to be as generally nice as i can without scaring people off, and it hasn't worked for me either.

men aren't the only ones who can't fit in, i actually often see many guys and almost wish i could've experienced what it was like to be one. maybe if i could've been a guy, i could've had it easier socially/romantically.

i think that often, the problem in this subreddit is just that you don't actually have the experience of the other gender. you have guesses based on your point of view, but haven't seen that side.

i promise there are good women out there. are all of them good? no. but they're out there. one of my friends has a boyfriend who's shorter than her and he's not popular, or buff or strikingly attractive. he's rather average, more on the introverted side. it's luck of the draw.

MistyMaisel · 2024-02-26T04:06:43+00:00

I'm gonna make this easy. Men are loved. Some of them even unconditionally. But, that isn't the same as agreeing to unconditionally play League of Legends with them. These are different things. My ability to see and enjoy someone's soul unconditionally is not the primary condition to team up for League of Legends. The primary condition is that I think we're likely to win and have fun winning and get through losing rarely more easily. If that's not likely or worse has been proven negative over time, I'm going to stop playing League of Legends, or worse, continue and feel anger, bitterness, and probably even take that out.

Relationships are about more than love unconditional or otherwise. They're about surviving and building life together (playing League of Legends) and attraction. I've loved lots of people I'd never play League with. The person I want to be with is hot, lovable, and good surving life material. Anything less isn't worth the time (trust me, I tried dating dudes who were less)

Men like you need to stop selling this bullshit that you aren't loved unconditionally because women don't wanna let you on the League of Legends competition team or kick you off when you stop consistently having a good KDR. If you wanna be on the team, qualify. If you want a relationship, be attractive and good survival material.

BootyMessiah · 2024-02-26T07:18:31+00:00

Men are loved for who they are. The issue is 85-90% of men don’t know who they are or what they want.

sunologie · 2024-02-26T07:59:30+00:00

Men being obsessed with vaginas and sex doesn’t mean that they love women like at all. Dont confuse lust for love.

shabby18 · 2024-02-26T10:34:37+00:00

If you are nothing without the suit then you shouldn't have it. -Tony Stark to Spiderman.

Although this physical suit in a fictious movie, it refers to so much more in real life.

Be yourself is a perfectly good advice in a lot of instances in life. During the heat of the moment, it's unwise to pretend to be someone else. It's easy to spot weirdness when your actions don't add up. It also comes off as under confident if your pretending job is not on point.

When someone says be yourself, they mean it as a noun and not as a verb. What it means is, be yourself based on all the events leading up to this particular moment and don't pretend to be something else. If you are a couch potato and don't like to party late, be that, you will attract same kinda people and you will have a successful relationship. If you pretended to be an active person and likes to party because that's popular, guess what, even if you end up getting with someone that night, chances are they are party person but you are not. Do you really thing this relationship is gonna be successful if either of you don't change?

Be yourself implies you are already putting efforts in the background. You are already working on your skills, to be self sufficient, to be a provider, to be a good human, to be able to communicate when you need help, heal from traumas etc.

This applies for all sexes.

MassiveAd1026 · 2024-02-26T11:58:55+00:00

The requirements for a man to be loved.

Be a real man (masculine), also be emotionally available (feminine). Don't try to fix or solve her problems (just listen while she whines about them). Take charge, be assertive, make plans, show leadership. Don't be controlling. Make her feel safe. Be tall, be handsome, have a big dick, pay for everything.
Make her feel sexy. Make her feel appreciated. Make her happy.
Don't be boring. Her friends have to like you. Make her friends like you.

(I forgot the rest) Can someone else finish this list?

Nihi1986 · 2024-02-26T14:46:25+00:00

Men can't be 'loved' for who they are, but for what they provide (not talking about money exclusively).

Women aren't loved for who they are, that's what it seems, but they aren't. Women are valuable by default (sex value and can have children), that doesn't mean that, even if you 'fall in love' (chemicals) you would permanently love her if there are many personality traits that you don't like. Eventually you'd stop loving her if that's the case.

There are, as you say, a few personality traits that are attractive in men and a few which are unattractive too. Those don't necessarily imply a higher value, they just work, they just are attractive, and certainly, those are traits you might never care much about or enjoy unless you want to develop them to be attractive. This is also the alpha/beta duality (fun vs safety).

Ok_Cycle225 · 2024-02-26T15:10:21+00:00

Can men just not be loved for who they actually are?

Can women love a 5ft6 skinny Asian boy like me who likes anime, video games, travelling and cars? Who knows!

BacanaHeaven · 2024-02-25T20:35:35+00:00

Groundbreaking discovery: no one likes you if you are an annoying cunt

Yes, if you are short and ugly with a poor personality your chances are greatly reduced.

volleyballbeach · 2024-02-25T21:48:59+00:00

Both men and women generally have to be good people at minimum in order to be loved for who they actually are

operajunkie · 2024-02-25T23:04:59+00:00

Nobody is loved unconditionally except children by their parents. Women aren’t loved unless we look a certain way and provide sex. That’s life.

wtknight · 2024-02-25T19:32:31+00:00

Men are loved for "who they are" by women who are of lower value than them. This is hypergamy. I'm an average guy and, once I was no longer a teenager and mellowed out, I had no problem attracting below average western women who considered me a "catch".

The problem is that men either want to attract their equals, and don't understand why their equals aren't attracted to them. Or, they overestimate their value and think that they are average, when they are actually below average, which means that hardly any women will ever like them for who they are until they improve themselves.

Legitimate_Type_1324 · 2024-02-25T19:39:36+00:00

The market is the market. There are archetypes that are more desirable than others, whether you like it or not.

So no, men cannot just be loved for who they are if what they are means fat, poor, uneducated and unwashed.

Women cannot afford to be much different from the archetypes either. Fat? Only used for sex. Ugly? Ignored. Competitive and manly? Ignored. Wrinkly? Ignored. Single mom? Ignored. Purple hair? Ignored. Black? Certainly more ignored in comparison.

Can women get sex easily? Yes. But that's not really what they want, so the comparison with what men want is pointless.

Kind-Dare7852 · 2024-02-25T19:41:12+00:00

Only if who you are is flirty and enjoys chasing women.

Otjahe · 2024-02-25T20:10:26+00:00

You speak about people finding extraordinary people attractive as if that’s strange or illogical. Everybody likes being around those type of people, because they make others FEEL good, with laughters and positive energy if you will.

There will exist some men that aren’t outwardly as attractive and those just need to seek for women that are at the same level OR lower. And the reason why the equivalent women will still have easier time pulling is because men will fuck anything that moves, aka no standards.

nonplussedminus · 2024-02-25T19:38:50+00:00

Men who are attractive without trying are called Chads. Think of a kid blessed with a good face, who likes things like surfing and music festivals and likes to make jokes. Tat boy will attract people without trying, as opposed to someone who is by nature a shy video game nerd with no jaw.

favabeansandwine · 2024-02-25T21:14:09+00:00

No. Men have no innate value. They must "become something" to be wanted, and valued, and even then, they can be met with scorn and derision.

A man can become a pillar of the community, and support his family and others, but if he's 5'9" and bald he still must know his place.

Another man can be a career loser, but he earns a place in society simply because he's desired for his genetics. But, be it providing of resources and being socially revered, or have genetic resources that women want, he has to have things.

He has to be born with these things, or he has to acquire these things.

Of course, not balding or being short in stature or less appealing facial features is not something he can attain very easily.

izzzy12k · 2024-02-25T21:42:04+00:00

The average guy, is invisible to most women these days.. Why?

Cause through online dating and apps, women can go for the more attractive (based on looks, wealth, badboy lifestyle, etc.) men they desire more easily.

Even if it's just for short term relationships.. They hope that the guy they choose to date will stay with them.. but those guys rarely will.

Then the cycle continues, and that's pretty much it.

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Love-Is-Selfish · 2024-02-25T19:37:53+00:00

Do we always have to try being somebody who we actually aren't? It seems like "just be yourself" is only viable when "yourself" is good enough to attract.

Unless you think people should love productive, peaceful men and rapists equally, then you can’t be admired no matter what your choices. Furthermore, putting aside being loved, you can’t achieve your own thriving by doing whatever you wish either.

There’s a lot of bad advice out there about what you should do to help yourself in romance which isn’t helpful, but that doesn’t change that you can’t be loved for whoever you are no matter what. And if you’re not succeeding in romance, there’s two options. Either you’re doing everything right and you’re just unlucky or there’s something you can be doing differently to help yourself succeed, including by improving yourself.

Edit: Also, you can’t be loved for who you are if you are loved no matter what your choices are. That’s who you are fundamentally, your choices. If someone loves you regardless of your choices (like if you choose to be a decent guy or a rapist at the extreme), then they don’t love you.

FromAuntToNiece · 2024-02-25T20:40:16+00:00

Trauma dumping is the only way I can establish any sort of emotional intimacy, whether romantic or platonic. NTs would call it "brutal honesty" or "emotional abuse."

Why is modern dating too judgmental towards trauma dumping these days, especially from those without relationship experience?

lxnarratorxl · 2024-02-25T19:33:46+00:00

We can be. But we will always be the emotional punching bag for the ones who love us.

This is based anecdotally on my mother and my wife. I’m not sure I’ve been happy a day in my life. Therapy and pills don’t help anymore.

This isn’t the place for this. But I’m not ok.

Title	Can men just not be loved for who they actually are?
Author	-snickerss-
Upvotes	165
Comments	493
Date	February 25, 2024 7:09 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1azw0ko/can_men_just_not_be_loved_for_who_they_actually/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/can-men-just-not-be-loved-for-who-they-actually.1246435 https://theredarchive.com/post/1246435

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