I'd still care but I would probably be less ashamed by it if the stigma was gone. The fact they judge your value on it/use it as a stock insult is just added misery.

Ocassionally I have seen guys who I knew were manwhores accused of being an incel/virgin in online devates and it kinda just reiterates to me that our value really is based on superficial things like looks, wealth, sexual prowess. An insult is an attack on ones value so if those are the things that are most commonly used as insults those seem to be the components of our value.

Like the dude was being rude/inflammatory but rather than attacking his character the first insult women jumped to was to accuse him of being a virgin because that in their eyes lowers a guys value more than being an ass and like I said the dude was the complete opposite of a virgin so in a way the women weren't even insulting him, they were really insulting any guy who is inexperienced.

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Unconditional love doesn't mean accepting abuse though. You can unconditionally love someone and leave them if they violate your boundaries.

this is true, and i was going to mention that in my response to the comment you deleted.

Unconditional love means loving someone and caring for their happiness without expecting anything in return.

yes, that’s another accepted definition of it.

Only on PPD will you find women who think that's unreasonable. Like yeah we get it, men are wallets to you, but there are women out there that have retained their femininity that men will kill for.

this is projection because i never said i think it’s unreasonable to love someone without entitlement, i said i think it’s wishful thinking to expect people to love you unconditionally or still want to be with you regardless of how you treat them.

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Not you specifically, just the idea that for a woman to love unconditionally it would necessitate putting up with abuse.

except it’s not just about women, it applies to anyone.

My point being when men say they want unconditional love for that to ring in your ear as they want to abuse you and have you be okay with it. It seemed to me like a way of rejecting the idea by projecting the worst possible interpretation

i would’ve had the same reaction had a woman said the same thing.

unconditional means unconditional.

usually what men say by this is they want a relationship that’s not transactional, but i still think that’s wishful thinking because why would you want to be with someone who doesn’t do anything nice for you? you wouldn’t. that means all relationships are, to whatever degree, transactional; whether people like to acknowledge this or not.

this isn’t a man/woman thing, this is a people thing.

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rft242 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But my point is that it's a uniquely female perspective imo to immediately leap to the idea of abuse.

i was really just trying to prove a point by using the extreme example.

i don’t think women are the only people on earth who might use an extreme or facetious example to make a point, but what do i know?

Again this is a female perspective imo. Men don't want to HAVE to do nice things they want to be able to do them when they want to and not be punished or lose the relationship if they aren't feeling up to performing that day.

nobody wants to have to do anything.

women don’t want to have to have sex when they’re not in the mood or have low libidos, but plenty of men say they would leave or cheat if their woman refused to have sex with them. some men even shame or guilt their wives if they refuse sex, even if they’ve been having regular sex (which counts as punishment, no?).

does that not count as transactional?

It seems that women are threatened by this idea. I'm not really sure why.

i don’t feel threatened by the idea. i was just sharing my opinion, like everyone else on this app.

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Going out of your way to do nice things should be voluntary not compulsory. Unless you're being actively shit to each other there's nothing wrong with just living together and enjoying each other's company without going out of your way to do nice things.

but sex isn’t something that should be voluntary and not compulsory?

But women turn this into a weird transaction.

Do nice things or no sex. Then it's a transaction.

this tells me you do not understand female sexuality, but that’s a different topic for a different day.

men interpret this as transactional because they don’t understand how female sexuality and arousal works.

and your woman shouldn’t have to ask you to do nice things. that should be part of a relationship. men and women want different things, why is what men want intrinsically tied to maintaining relationships but what women want isn’t and is just supposed to be voluntary?

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

but sex isn’t something that should be voluntary and not compulsory?

Within reason, yes, or it becomes transactional.

this tells me you do not understand female sexuality, but that’s a different topic for a different day.

The way women describe their own sexuality is unreliable because they can't view it objectively because they are living it and feeling it.

men interpret this as transactional because they don’t understand how female sexuality and arousal works.

Men view it objectively and logically and women view it emotionally and with bias.

So who do you think is more likely to be correct?

and your woman shouldn’t have to ask you to do nice things.

Exactly. She should be pleased when it happens but fine with it when it doesn't.

that should be part of a relationship.

A transactional relationship.

men and women want different things, why is what men want intrinsically tied to maintaining relationships but what women want isn’t and is just supposed to be voluntary?

Because what women want is to create a transactional relationship by default which is exhausting for men.

Let's phrase this another way.

Your man doesn't do nice things for you, no sex right? Blah blah female sexuality responsive blah blah.

But if you aren't going out of your way to do nice things for him what does he withhold from you?

For most men, nothing. Men will still have sex with their gf even if they haven't jumped through hoops.

Men view the company as the nice thing. Just being together. That's literally all.

[–]rft242 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Within reason, yes, or it becomes transactional.

and why can’t you consider doing nice things for your partner in the same way?

The way women describe their own sexuality is unreliable because they can't view it objectively because they are living it and feeling it.

i’ll have to go find my comments and explanations of female sexuality from months ago, as well as the sources i listed that included the scientific and medical explanations for why sex and arousal is mental for women.

Men view it objectively and logically and women view it emotionally and with bias.

sure. as if men are incapable of having bias.

as if it’s even possible for a human to actually be entirely objective.

So who do you think is more likely to be correct?

the person who experiences it.

the same way i would not act like i know more about male sexuality because i’m able to view it from a pov that is more impersonal.

but of course, i am biased. as are you.

Exactly. She should be pleased when it happens but fine with it when it doesn't.

and men should be pleased when sex doesn’t but fine with it when it doesn’t.

A transactional relationship.

in your opinion.

Because what women want is to create a transactional relationship by default which is exhausting for men.

because women want things that mean view as transactional because they don’t want to fulfill women’s wants, but expect women to fulfill theirs.

Let's phrase this another way.

Your man doesn't do nice things for you, no sex right? Blah blah female sexuality responsive blah blah.

But if you aren't going out of your way to do nice things for him what does he withhold from you?

For most men, nothing. Men will still have sex with their gf even if they haven't jumped through hoops.

usually because men want sex more than women do.

which is why this comparison isn’t really hitting as well as you might’ve thought it would.

Men view the company as the nice thing. Just being together. That's literally all.

sure, but why should women be defamed for wanting more than that?

and if men view the company and just being together as a nice, why do they get up in arms of the woman doesn’t want to have sex with them?

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

and why can’t you consider doing nice things for your partner in the same way?

Who says I can't I said it shouldn't be EXPECTED because that makes it transactional.

i’ll have to go find my comments and explanations of female sexuality from months ago, as well as the sources i listed that included the scientific and medical explanations for why sex and arousal is mental for women.

There are no such things. I think you mean psychology not science, psychology is a soft science and is completely unreliable.

Lol at "medical explanations" some women (AND I'M NOT CONDONING RAPE HERE) orgasm during rape. If what you were saying was true that would be completely impossible. But the body has natural reactions to stimuli manipulating the genitalia of either sex will create a reaction.

sure. as if men are incapable of having bias.

Men are bias about themselves. Women are bias about themselves. Protagonist syndrome. Excusing bad behavior etc these are things people think about themselves. The bias of people to things outside of themselves is orders and magnitudes less powerful than the bias one has towards things about themselves, do you not agree with that?

as if it’s even possible for a human to actually be entirely objective.

It's pretty exhausting what you're doing here.

the person who experiences it.

Absolute poppycock you're serious about this? You think you're more objective about yourself than an outside observer would be despite literally every piece of evidence suggesting the contrary?

You don't see that as arrogant?

the same way i would not act like i know more about male sexuality because i’m able to view it from a pov that is more impersonal.

Why not? Men are usually in agreement with women about their sexuality. They are raring to go at basically any time.

but of course, i am biased. as are you

Yes about myself obviously.

because women want things that mean view as transactional because they don’t want to fulfill women’s wants, but expect women to fulfill theirs.

So sex is something only men want? Here we arrive again at the crux of why women are the ones who make women transactional. They view sex as some favor they do for men despite they themselves enjoying it.

And it's not men defining do x to get y as transactional, it's literally the definition of the word transactional.

usually because men want sex more than women do.

Irrelevant. It's something you both enjoy. If you want to deny him and yourself that because he doesn't jump through your hoops it's you creating a transactional relationship.

Imagine if you were hungry and he acted like getting food was a favor to you just because he wasn't AS hungry as you, that is preposterous isn't it?

which is why this comparison isn’t really hitting as well as you might’ve thought it would.

You understand the point, you just don't want to admit it because of your personal biases.

sure, but why should women be defamed for wanting more than that?

Because it creates a transactional relationship where the man has to dance like a monkey to make you happy. Why would any person want to spend their life constantly walking on eggshells hoping whatever nice thing they tried to do was enough for you?

You honestly can't see why that's exhausting for men?

and if men view the company and just being together as a nice, why do they get up in arms of the woman doesn’t want to have sex with them?

Sex is part of being together in a healthy romantic relationship. Being a slave to a narcissists whims is not. Never has been nor should it be.

Women want it to be because they like being catered to.

[–]rft241 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Who says I can't I said it shouldn't be EXPECTED because that makes it transactional.

i disagree. if it’s fair to expect sex (since that’s what men mainly)

There are no such things. I think you mean psychology not science, psychology is a soft science and is completely unreliable.

no, i meant science. as in the chemical and hormonal explanations behind sexual arousal in women. i guess you can consider it psychology since it has to do with the mind and there are psychological explanations for it as well. whether or not you believe psychology is science is irrelevant.

Lol at "medical explanations" some women (AND I'M NOT CONDONING RAPE HERE) orgasm during rape. If what you were saying was true that would be completely impossible. But the body has natural reactions to stimuli manipulating the genitalia of either sex will create a reaction.

i’m not seeing how anything i’ve said challenges this notion or what this has to do with female sexuality mainly being mental? i’m talking about cultivating desire and arousal here, not rape.

did you know two opposing ideas can be true at the same time?

by “medical explanations” i meant explanations that come from medical professionals and doctors. the people who are educated and paid to know and understand these things. again, your opinion on it is irrelevant.

Men are bias about themselves. Women are bias about themselves. Protagonist syndrome. Excusing bad behavior etc these are things people think about themselves. The bias of people to things outside of themselves is orders and magnitudes less powerful than the bias one has towards things about themselves, do you not agree with that?

absolutely.

It's pretty exhausting what you're doing here.

and what you’re doing isn’t?

Absolute poppycock you're serious about this? You think you're more objective about yourself than an outside observer would be despite literally every piece of evidence suggesting the contrary?

i don’t think i’m more objective about myself, but i don’t think that an outsider’s perspective is anymore valid than mine just because it’s more impersonal.

i also don’t think it’s possible for a person who is not me to know more about myself than i do. they can know more about what i do and say maybe, but not who i am or how i think or what i mean.

You don't see that as arrogant?

no.

Why not? Men are usually in agreement with women about their sexuality. They are raring to go at basically any time.

i’m not sure i entirely agree with this.

So sex is something only men want? Here we arrive again at the crux of why women are the ones who make women transactional. They view sex as some favor they do for men despite they themselves enjoying it.

no, when i say “men want sex,” i’m (obviously) not saying women don’t. sex is something men prioritize and claim they can’t live without. sex is something men want so much, some are even willing to go to extreme means to get it. women do not feel nearly this inclined towards sex.

and maybe a lot of women view sex as transactional because it’s not always enjoyable for them? i think women have lower libidos than men on average, so it makes sense that they would want it at a lesser frequency. do you really think they’d view it as a chore or a favor if they enjoyed it or wanted to do it a lot?

the same way you view doing nice things for your partner is the same way women view sex: it should be voluntary, not compulsory. it should be done when either partner wants to, they shouldn’t have to.

And it's not men defining do x to get y as transactional, it's literally the definition of the word transactional.

i said that’s how men interpret it. people can interpret things however they want to.

Irrelevant. It's something you both enjoy. If you want to deny him and yourself that because he doesn't jump through your hoops it's you creating a transactional relationship.

well obviously the woman doesn’t feel like she’s denying herself of anything if she’s saying she doesn’t want sex.

Imagine if you were hungry and he acted like getting food was a favor to you just because he wasn't AS hungry as you, that is preposterous isn't it?

except this analogy isn’t hitting either because in your scenario, the person is hungry. when it comes to sex, you either want to do it or not. if you don’t, then there wasn’t enough desire (“hunger”) there to make you want to do it.

You understand the point, you just don't want to admit it because of your personal biases.

if you say so.

Because it creates a transactional relationship where the man has to dance like a monkey to make you happy.

and this is all your opinion.

in my opinion, expecting sex whenever you want it also creates a transactional relationship.

which is why don’t believe relationships are truly ever non-transactional.

you wouldn’t want to fuck your wide if she gained 100lbs, would you? you tell her she s gotta pose weigjt so you can be attracted to her, right?

Why would any person want to spend their life constantly walking on eggshells hoping whatever nice thing they tried to do was enough for you?

and why would any person want to spend their life having a one-sided sexual relationship, and having sex when they don’t want to for a person who rarely ever does anything nice for them?

You honestly can't see why that's exhausting for men?

i don’t see how it’s any less exhausting for women than it is for men, really.

Sex is part of being together in a healthy romantic relationship.

this is also your opinion.

i think doing nice things for your partner is part of being together in a healthy romantic relationship.

Being a slave to a narcissists whims is not. Never has been nor should it be.

if this is what you consider doing nice things for someone as, i find it absolutely comical that you’re the same person who asked me why i “jumped to abuse” ”the moment unconditional love was mentioned.”

Women want it to be because they like being catered to.

i could easily say the same thing about men, and that’s the funny thing in all this.

i have no issue with men wanting sex or believing that it’s part of relationships because it is, but i have a problem with men making an issue out of the things women want while expecting to get everything they want. it’s very entitled and very egotistical to basically say the equivalent to “what i want is fine and expected, but what you want is wrong and immoral; and expecting anything more of me than just doing what i feel like doing for you is bad.”

what women want is narcissistic, but what men want is perfectly acceptable? that’s nonsensical. if punishing male imperatives is wrong, then so is punishing female imperatives. women aren’t horrible narcissists trying to make relationships transactional because they want and expect more than just sex out of their relationships, they want emotional fulfillment.

[–]RepresentativeSwan11 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Adding this comment here because it’s something I’ve noticed about the disconnect between fitness goals for women and men.

(Disclaimer: As a woman, I prefer the Pilates female body over the CrossFit female body. Both are toned and strong, but the Pilates body is more lithe and feminine which is a preference of mine. If I ever get into “power” and testing the limits of my body from an athletic perspective I’ll dabble into XFit. I still engage a free weight routine, but overall I have a specific “look” in mind, but still want to ensure my overall physicality is not “weak.”)

Exactly.

Also.

Men here forget that women have been doing strength training for a while. Men of Reddit think it equals “PUMP IRON SETS 😤😤😤”

Men don’t do to well with traditional female strength exercise — resistance oriented.

Whenever I go to a Pilates, Pilates reformer, Barre, bands, or any class focused on exhausting slow twitch muscles (women fare better focusing on these muscle groups for toning purposes) and balance, the men struggle.

We went to a Pilates reformer class last week and the guy (really ripped and fit looking) was struggling holding the resistance and doing the small exhaustive movements.

I actually don’t like when the male trainers teach the reformer classes. They go too fast and want to rip through the movements. I don’t “feel the burn” as much as I do when the female trainers teach it. The female trainers focus on holding the positions and pulsing pointedly in the discomfort. That approach works better for shaping my body.

Ultimately I think men and women have different musculature and different goals when working out.

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If it's that easy, why do so many people (i.e. most) struggle or deliberately skip leg day or be like you where they half ass it and claim they're a "lifter"?

Rock climbing indoors is easy, outdoors the difficulty is more due to it being a mental puzzle rather than a physical exertion. There are fat fucks who are incredible dancers — so I'm not even sure why you would think that is a good index of general fitness — that's more of an index of balance and coordination (obviously depends on dance style and dance is still a very skilled movement). Marathon running and jogging have been much more popular as a basic medium of fitness far more than lifting has been for like the last 4-5 decades (not to mention all the BS fear mongering there is with lifting in general, while powerlifters actually experience a lower injury rate relative to runners)???

Every hs has cross country or track, basically none have a powerlifting team.

Again, I'm sure lifting is quite easy when you don't actually push yourself, which is about 90 percent of girls who "lift".

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You sound like you have no idea of what you're talking about, and you use vague/arbitrary terms/definitions to conveniently strawman or shift the goal posts of your arguments.

It's kind of like me arguing that I walked a marathon's distance over the course of 7 days where I could walk as much as I want on any given day and say, "see, marathons are easy".

FYI, I do endurance and resistance training, resistance training with proper progressive overload is so obviously more difficult as it is far more technical and requires more precise programming than basic endurance training does. There are definitely sports more difficult than resistance training, but none of the gay shit you mentioned. More so stuff like MMA or contact sports where you're directly competing antagonistically to someone.

Obviously, if you're a chubby chick who's got poor work capacity and gets tired from basic jogging easily (which you seem to imply in your other comments from saying you hate cardio), then jogging will appear harder than lifting from a baseline comparison. What you're failing to realize though is your cardiovascular work capacity limitations are a direct limitation as far as how much resistance training volume you can truly handle, and the incompetent ignorance you fail to realize is you're not even training remotely hard enough (seriously, go do 6 sets of RPE 9 @ 10-12 reps of deadlifts and claim the "i CaN DeAdLiFt AlL dAY BrO").

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I don’t think you can assume mens (or womens) fitness goals are universal either. I think the more important distinction is people who work out because they want a healthy fitness centered lifestyle and people who work out because they’re trying to get a look that will make them more attractive to the people they want to date. One guess as to who’s more successful in reaching and maintaining those goals.

When I was a competitive athlete my fitness goals were centered around being successful in my sport.

In my post college 20s my fitness goals were centered around achievements for achievement sake — breaking my 5k time, breaking my squat record, etc.

Now my fitness goals are to maintain my health and reduce risk of disease. I haven’t lifted since my early 30s and I’m not trying to break any race records anymore.

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This blog explains all those stats that say "nice guys" don't get laid

The small problem is that there’s a bunch of sex you’re vastly more likely to have if you’re a terrible person: rape; cheating on your partner; helping someone else cheat on their partner; getting someone drunk or high to have sex with them that they wouldn’t have sober; convincing someone that you love them when you don’t for the purpose of getting laid; “convincing” someone who said “no” at the beginning of the night; and so on. Since presumably terrible people aren’t Captain Planet villains who turn down all the ethical sex because they want to increase the amount of sex-related suffering in the world, we can expect terrible people to have more sexual partners than non-terrible people, all things equal.

...That is, in general, people who desire lots of sexual partners tend to be disagreeable, lower on honesty-humility, impulsive, risk-taking, avoidant attachment style, narcissistic, Machiavellian, and psychopathic.

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most of us don't take porn that seriously and we don't want to spend hours reading or watching something just to get a 10 minute sex scene lol, i have better things to do than read 80 pages of plot just to jerk off and cum like why would i want to do that? that is dumb. all that emotional connection stuff is for real life not porn lol. you could make an argument that movies do this, but not even movies have real hardcore porn scenes, because it basically doesn't really work in movies. the most hardcore porn scene in a movie i can think of is blue is the warmest color but that's a lesbian scene, and even in that it was like yea we get it hurry up and move on. i can't think of any movie or tv sex scene that made me want to jerk off

there are plenty of risks for men too, you think we want stds and getting some random girl pregnant? you're also giving women a pass for making "dangers" erotic. so yea i guess you do read that stuff

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It's common sense that women don't watch porn as much as men. The fact that so many people(men) deny this is clown tier absurdity. On this site alone there are a thousand subreddits focused on every part of a woman's body! There are some creepy subreddits that focus on a female celebrity's ass or armpits for example🙄(example:TaylorSwiftBum, TaylorSwiftLips🙄, TaylorSwiftBreasts etc). While, on the other side of the coin, you can barely find a subreddit made for women that focuses on men at all(maybe Ladybonersgw which is filled with gay men btw).

It's almost like I'd claim that men and women are the same physically, it's so obviously false 🤡🤡 Women aren't as aggressive as men, women aren't as visual as men. Do i really have to explain that 2+2=4? I guess it makes men feel better to try to convince themselves that women are just as depraved as them.

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Speaking of prostitution, I remember there was a thread comparing gay men paying for sex versus straight men. Someone brought up a point where they argued with ugly young gay males in the rare cases they can’t get laid with dudes in their age range, they always can get older guys to fuck them. It’s like a get out of jail free card cause those older dudes will fuck anything.

With ugly or below average straight males that doesn’t really exist. The dude in college who is getting turned down left and right by women his own age, it’s not like he’s gonna be any more successful with older women. In fact there are guys who are young who have set their OLD preferences to 18-25, got no responses and are like OK, I’m gonna change the age range up to 55 and it’s like nope. Still nothing lol.

The only difference is I will say older women are more receptive to cold approaches/compliments than their younger counterparts. That doesn’t mean they’re going to Fuck you, they’re just less likely to give you the resting bitch face or curse you out.

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When they’re by themselves it changes

Part of it might be flexing, but the other part of it is safety - we’re way more vulnerable when we’re by ourselves, so we’re going to go way the fuck out of our way to not piss off the big, strong creature who wants to fuck us

how did you react to cold approaches generally

I’ve always been a flirt. I enjoy flirting with everyone (not sexually, I’m not Blanche from the Golden Girls, but I genuinely love going back and forth in conversation and having fun), and have accidentally led on people that I just ... am not into. Including women (which is why I’ve been hit on by way more lesbians than your average straight girl)

So I generally talked to anyone who would approach me. I was actually pretty oblivious for a long time - I would assume it’s just harmless banter and then be like surprised Picachu when I got hit on

The times when I wasn’t nice were generally:

He was, like, the 20th guy to hit on me and not getting time with my friends was starting to become an issue
He wasn’t taking the hint to walk away. You got my number, dude, go the fuck away so I can talk to my friends
He insisted on doing the “let me call you right now” move
He was just giving off STRANGER DANGER, bunny boiler vibes. Staring too long into my eyes without blinking, touching me too much, standing too close, refusing to acknowledge my friends, etc
Guys who just didn’t take no for answer

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The LA Riots. 1992

Last I checked, the protests and whatnot of the last year walked right up to the border of being a riot, but didn’t cross that line in the way it was crossed in 92. That said, I did watch CNN convinced that I was going to see a death live on air - either of an employee within the building, or a protestor who wouldn’t back down in the face of the police response

For the record, I’m very happy neither happened

I think that uprisings, protests, etc., are a bedrock of any democracy and the role of the police is to enforce boundaries, not play judge/jury/executioner. However - and it’s a big however - when a group crosses the line into violence, then I fail to see the shock and surprise in violence being met by violence

This is not political at all; it’s literally looking at the odds of a situation escalating (potentially, as it did in this case, to death) and being unimpressed with anyone feigning surprise over a very predictable outcome

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You can’t compare car maintenance with getting hair ripped out of one of the most sensitive areas of your body for 30 minutes straight (just for a Brazilian) every couple of weeks for years

"Effort" isn't determined by how much you think/feel like you're doing. It's literally measurable by math. If you consider it a lot of "effort" to be getting dressed, walking to your car, driving to a building, walking into the building, and sitting in a chair, then you're probably lazy or inactive. It's not "effort" to go in and have someone do the effort for you.

It's pretty disingenuous to say that one person driving 5 miles is putting in equal effort as someone who walked or ran the same distance, just like it's disingenuous to say that people who shave, do their own hair, nails, etc., are putting in the same effort as someone who has other people do these things for them, because lying in a chair while someone else does the work doesn't involve that much effort.

Not to mention the fact that men effort men are expected to put into dating does not benefit themselves, but the women they're dating, while women's efforts mostly benefit themselves.

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You’re shifting goal posts now - my claim was never about the amount of women’s efforts in a vacuum; it was about the amount of effort vs men

This is still in relation to men, so nice try I guess.

Men just aren’t putting in the same amount of effort as women.

As far as what? Going to the salon and sitting in a chair? Putting on makeup which men don't do anyway? I could say that women aren't putting in the same amount of effort as men and referencing the lack of approaching, the lack of communicating, the lack of planning dates, the lack of already being successful enough to get interest from a woman and not simply by being good-looking, the lack of taking initiative in general, and the lack of being a good date. Women's "effort" usually stops when they get out of their car at the date location, while men's effort continues far beyond that.

You can’t even argue it - be it time, money, sheer amount of skin being “landscaped,” whatever parameters you want. Women eclipse men on this

I just did, but if you want to keep trying to argue that getting your butthole waxed is "effort," then you can keep right on trying.

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I could say that women aren’t putting in the same amount of effort as men and referencing the lack of approaching, the lack of communicating, the lack of planned dates ...

That was too long a sentence, I didn’t want to write it out. But you would be right - the burden of performance/action is on men. The burden of appearance is on women

Women spend time and money on cosmetics, learning techniques - sometimes investing in actual classes. Fashion media for women far out earns fashion media for men - again, because women are learning to dress their bodies in far less forgiving clothes

The body hair grooming

The sheer amount of time that it takes to do your hair - not just wash and air dry, but use actual hot tools and style. When I do my hair, it takes a half hour to 45 minutes, and I have easy hair. I know plenty of women who need 2+ hours multiple times a week

At home skin care in and of itself - weekday skin care is one thing, but weekend routines can take hours

And that’s all before you take into account hair services, skin care services and professional body hair removal

And all of that is before you get into things like working out and diet, which are things that men do as well

Like it or not, women spend more time and money on their appearance. It’s not even close, and it’s not debatable

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Even in religious societies you're not bound by the rules of religions only laws.

If your standard for freedom is ability to choose religion then you are correct.

I interpret what your saying though to be akin to saying a society without laws would be freer.

In a sense that's true but in practice that only results in people being taken advantage of.

Same with religious societies. In societies where religion tells you that you must be good to each other then you have more chances to thrive, not less. Many religions will say things like "you must do what you can to help those in need" etc resulting in less people in poverty homeless and jobless them societies where the law is just "you're not allowed to physically hurt each other" which opens people up to being taken advantage of in business deals like used car salesman selling lemons etc. Those people would not survive in a religion based society and that actually results in more freedom and less fear of being taken advantage of

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I don't think that people have to be very similar in their likes and interests to be good partners.

Sure. When I say mutual attraction, I don't mean "we like the same things."

It means you are attracted to them sexually, that you are attracted to their personality, and that you admire them; and that they are attracted to you sexually, that they are attracted to your personality, and that they admire you.

Someone who strives to do good. They're not taking advantage of others, or allowing others to be taken advantage of. They give of themselves without expecting to receive, or "without strings attached." They're humble, kind, honest, and compassionate to others because that's just who they are, not because it's socially expected of them, etc.

Cool! Yeah, so it sounds like these are the qualities in a person that you "admire." I encounter a lot of people like this actually. I would almost say it's more of the norm in my network or maybe I unconsciously filter for "considerate" "compassionate" "thoughtful" people as friends and else.

The difficulty for many is finding people like they admire who have compatible personalities with yourself and who you're sexually attracted to/who's sexually attracted to you.

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sure. When I say mutual attraction, I don't mean "we like the same things."

and personality and admiration) and lifestyle compatibility.

I was talking more about that stuff, because "we like the same things" is usually included in there.

It means you are attracted to them sexually, that you are attracted to their personality, and that you admire them; and that they are attracted to you sexually, that they are attracted to your personality, and that they admire you.

Yes, this is what a relationship is.

Cool! Yeah, so it sounds like these are the qualities in a person that you "admire." I encounter a lot of people like this actually. I would almost say it's more of the norm in my network or maybe I unconsciously filter for "considerate" "compassionate" "thoughtful" people as friends and else.

The thing with this is that you can't simply base your opinion of whether someone is any of these things on one or two encounters with them. It actually takes getting to know them to accurately determine whether they're not, or the first few times were circumstantial. Depending on the topic or situation, some people think and/or accuse me of being mean, rude, lacking empathy, selfish, abrasive, having ulterior motives, etc., and that is their take-away of who "me" is.

The difficulty for many is finding people like they admire who have compatible personalities with yourself and who you're sexually attracted to/who's sexually attracted to you.

All being present at the exact same time, yes, but I'd say it's even more difficult to find people who really try to get to know others in a more objective sense instead of using their perceptions, assumptions and heuristics to form a profile with which to judge people quicker and easier.

[–]GridReXX1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I was talking more about that stuff, because "we like the same things" is usually included in there.

Not really a rule. Compatability =! sameness

The thing with this is that you can't simply base your opinion of whether someone is any of these things on one or two encounters with them. It actually takes getting to know them to accurately determine whether they're not, or the first few times were circumstantial. Depending on the topic or situation, some people think and/or accuse me of being mean, rude, lacking empathy, selfish, abrasive, having ulterior motives, etc., and that is their take-away of who "me" is.

These aren't people I observe on a TV show. I know them... When people suggest what I suggest, they're assuming you're actually intuiting and experiencing these people on some intimate level whether platonic/romantic/familial/etc.

All being present at the exact same time, yes, but I'd say it's even more difficult to find people who really try to get to know others in a more objective sense instead of using their perceptions, assumptions and heuristics to form a profile with which to judge people quicker and easier.

This is easily done by interacting with people. It sounds like you're assessing the world from an island of isolation and not actual encounters and interactions. These aren't theoretical concepts I'm discussing, they're lived experiences and bonds with others.

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Seriously. I think they believe that banning people will reduce bigotry but I actually don't think so. If someone is ignorant and gets banned, it will only push them farther right because those are the only communities that (ironically) allow free speech.

This is why I like places such as PPD and PCM. People are allowed to freely express their opinions, even it's controversial. The discussion that results from those controversial opinions often result in the OP agreeing somewhat with their adversaries.

For example, imagine a young man who's ignorant about women. He says some dumb shit (while genuinely trying to have a convo) and then gets banned by all the women/feminist subs. Instead of learning why he may be ignorant, he only gets shunned which will lead him to a community that's actually bigoted.

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Alright, so, sex is something that often isn’t fun for women at first. Hell, it can be downright painful, and that’s when we’re consenting and eager for that D

Now, imagine how clueless a teenage boy is when his only exposure to sex is aggressive pornography

So some younger teen girls and even girls into their early to mid-20s think they don’t like sex because of this. The numbers get smaller every year, as we meet guys who are genuinely interested in our pleasure - but it does seem like we have to wait out the super hormonal teenage years before some of us get there

I’m convinced that’s part of why they say that women’s sexuality peaks in our mid-30s - it may be partially hormonal, but our sexual experiences become more pleasurable as our partners learn more about women’s bodies. And our specific bodies

Anyhow, that’s a really long way of saying that women are vocal about not liking sex when they’re younger because their experiences with it aren’t great (even when they’re totally enthusiastic about it). But as everyone gets more comfortable in bed, pleasure increases, and those vocal women start to become a very very small minority

You’re partially right that women like sex with “suitable” men, but I think you’re off base on what you mean by that. What makes a man “suitable” is a focus (not even necessarily his main focus, but still a big focus) on her pleasure. That focus, along with a sense of playful fun, is what makes sex fun for a girl

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It's been awhile, but I have. It was okay, I guess. Nice to have someone to talk to but I was sort of dealing with depression at the time and she was going through some life issues at home and also dealing with things like panic disorder and had abandonment issues which made things stressful because about every two weeks to a month, she would have episodes where she would become emotionally disturbed and say that I was just going to leave her and I would have to calm her down every time. We dated for a year before I got tired of it and left.

Haven't dated anyone since, and wasn't really dating anyone long before that either. I have yet to meet anyone available who didn't seem happy by themselves either, which is why I said before that most people are looking at others as a means to an end, and it's probably best that you send them on their way because you don't want that job.

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Statistics on happiness? Subjective. But statistics on marital longevity aren’t and getting married before age 25 is a huge predictor of divorce.

As far as “traditional “ vrs “non traditional “, if we use religion as a proxy for traditional, outside of Amish and Orthodox Jews where divorce is really not even a thing, the religious don’t really fair much better in the west. Mormons have been trying to paint their divorce rates as low for years but even the Lds church has finally admitted that their divorce rates are relatively high. It gets complicated, because the status of “divorced “ among Mormons is rare, but they are the most likely to remarry.
https://www.deseret.com/2002/8/11/19671265/statistics-offer-good-and-bad-news-for-lds From what I understand the rate of remarriage is high, and the rate of divorce for those second marriages is low.

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To piggyback of my “give up thread” https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/lw3kz3/q4all_do_you_think_there_are_some_people_who/ Some people were like no one should give up everyone should keep trying and the classic quote “there’s someone out there for everyone”. I’m not saying all these people were lying, some people actually believe this(I’m not even saying I don’t) but there are definitely people/groups who don’t and push this as part of a personal agenda. Not just in that thread, in life in general.

Then I thought to myself🤔, who are some people who benefit from those at the bottom not giving up and “staying in the race” so to speak? I came up with 3 groups.

A.)The Online Dating industry. Let’s be honest a significant section if not majority of people on OLD sites are undesirables. Many of them turn to that industry as a last resort after failing “in real life”. Who do you think is paying for tinder gold? Or Match boosts? They pretty much are the filler. If all those people said F this I’m out, the entire industry collapses. They have a vested interest in promoting “theres someone out there for everyone” even if they don’t personally believe it.

B.)The Dating Advice/Help industry. This kinda falls into the first point. Most of the people who go to help(especially men) are failures at the bottom of the totem pole. This is a million dollar industry, imagine if those people said F this I’m out, again the entire industry collapses and no one gets paid. We need these guys coming to seminars, buying the books, and watching the videos even if we personally Believe they are hopeless losers who have no chance.

C.)Above average men and women who use people at the bottom as slump busters/ego boosts. This is probably the biggest group IMO. You have women who use guys at the bottom as orbiters doing favors for them and for compliments. Those guys do that because they think they have a chance with these women. If they decided... Fuck this I’m out, they lose that perk. There are guys who use women at the bottom for easy sex and those girls fuck those guys thinking it’s going to eventually lead to more. If those women said F this, no more sex I’m closing up shop those guys lose their free pussy. My ugly women thread covers some of this well https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/m0i8bn/q4alljust_how_easy_are_ugly_women/

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all that self help/dating industry shit is a scam. ive read a couple self help books and they're basically the same thing, i realized the reason people read them isn't because they want to fix their life, it's because they are addicted to self help books, they are self help junkies. they get their dopamine hit reading these things, that's why it's such a huge industry. a self help publisher wrote a book about the industry and he said the person most likely to buy a self help book is a person who already bought a self help book in the past lol, that just tells you everything you need to know right there. it's a giant scam. the online dating industry is even more of a joke, all the popular ones are married to busted garbage. bulldog mindset, married with a daughter. rollo tomassi, married with a daughter. modern life dating, extreme creep who moved to japan to chase after some mediocre girl. richard cooper, wife divorced him and he started fucking single mothers while making videos about how much he hate single mothers. losers, every last one of them

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Oh, so when I was in college, a classmate invited me to her church and I went, and they were really aggressive about trying to get people to join, and lied to my face about their denomination. And... I dunno, something about them gave be the heebie jeebies. I dunno, probably just their over eagerness to get me to join, and how aggressively they were pushing one-on-one bible studies and stuff. Their members have “discipline manuals”, which are like indoctrination guides for how to convince someone to follow their beliefs. So damned weird.

So I read up a bit more about them (they always go by the name “city name” church) I found out they were the International Church of Christ, which is a cult (but not a full on suicide cult). They are known to practice love-bombing, and blackmail members with their confessed sins.

I did not join.

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My rule of thumb, from back when Stud McMuffin akaean was on the market, was to never send more than two unanswered texts in a row.

Its a pretty great rule because it allows for a balance between needlessly catastrophizing and giving up too early on someone who is interested in you, and coming off as overly needy or desperate on the other hand.

The truth is, sometimes people get busy, and sometimes they put brand new people that they just met and don't have any obligations towards on the backburner to deal with problem that have a more immediate impact on their lives- like jobs, or family issues. Just because someone is preoccupied doesn't mean they didn't have a good time, and it doesn't mean that they aren't interested. It just means that they aren't interested... right now.

So send your two texts in a row, and wait for a response. If it happens it happens. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. You can't expect anything out of early dates.

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I’m with everyone else. I wouldn’t text her anymore. The ball is in her court. If she responds, great if she doesn’t oh well. It’s recommended to date multiple people so if one person is flaky and unresponsive it doesn’t bother you as much.

She’s not going to tell you how to improve lol. Be taller, become funnier, workout more, make more money? If you can’t do any of these, you’re out of luck.

This is also why you keep the first date pretty cheap. Women can say they hate “walk dates” all they want, but there is a good reason for them as you can see.

In a few days/weeks, you’ll be on to the next one.

I know a girl who wants relationship like dates on Friday and purses/sleeps with chad on Saturday. A new sucker at least once a month, if not more. She has a decent career, education, side ventures but she’s a 6. Decent enough to get attention, but not good enough to get a relationship from chad so she does this.

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Passed on, croaked, kicked the bucket, gone to heaven, gone home, expired, breathed his last, succumbed, left us, passed to his eternal reward, lost, met his maker, wasted, checked out, eternal rest, laid to rest, pushing up daisies, called home, was a goner, came to an end, bit the dust, annihilated, liquidated, terminated, gave up the ghost, left this world, rubbed out, snuffed it, six feet under, consumed, found everlasting peace, went to a new life, in the great beyond, no longer with us, made the change, on the other side, God took him, departed, transcended, bought the farm, with the angels, feeling no pain, lost the race, time was up, cashed in, crossed over Jordan, perished, lost it, was done in, translated into glory, returned to dust, withered away, in the arms, gave it up, it was curtains, a long sleep, on the heavenly shores, out of his/her misery, ended it all, angels carried him away, resting in peace, changed form, dropped the body, rode into the sunset, that was all she wrote...

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You wreck your life so hard into the ground that it forces you to have to pull your head out of your ass or watch as your future burns to the ground while you literally kill yourself slowly.

I’ll be one year sober May 4. I didn’t think that I could do it, but I did it. With a lot of help from my parents at first as well as friends. But you take it day by day. You’re bored first but once your brain chemicals balance out, you start to pursue old hobbies that drinking replaced. You start to become your old self again. In my case, you face off against a lot of personal demons and come out the other side a better person.

Idk if this was rhetorical or not, but I guess I decided to give an honest answer. You don’t give yourself any option but sobriety. And when the urge to drink gets strong, you just remember how much your relationships with all of your loved ones has improved on sobriety and that you can’t have the kind of love in your heart for them that you do sober while drinking.

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I could write several wall of textes because i'm dealing with it right now with my apprentices but i try to be very short. All this RP and sexlessness yada yada is more of a symptom.

For me it begins early in the elementary school and reaches it's peak in the middle school. The most important and formative time for young people.

The overwhelming amount of learning content is transported verbally and visually. Especially the verbal learning method is favouring girls while the visual way is even for both genders. But the twist is that boys are more evenly spread among the learning methods and where their stenghts are lying so boys who are better learning through practical application are completely left in the dust and the types who learning the best through talking and discussions are usually developed later explaining how the few boys reaching university catching up slightly. That's only the most basic premise with many examples.
According to the modell from Eric Berne there are many dimensions of someones personality. The part about the inner child especially is important in these years. There are three types. Free child, adapted child and rebellious child. Everybody starts out as a free child but more girls fall into the adapted child type which is prone to follow rules even to a fault. More boys than girls are falling into the rebellious child type because and also their free child on average more developed.
Now you have a school environment (the environmant during the lectures itself not the social environment) where you have to sit still, obey and memorize. Combined with the lack of practical grasp boys, especially these with the practical learning type are struggling. You see these typical boys disrupting the the girlish learning environment (strong developed free child or the rebellious type) this also explains a part of the rise of ADHD because many boys are just not made to sit still and obey.

This three points are only a rough introduction but i think you get the point. If you take into account that the "modern" school is not only catering to girls strengths and comfort but also preaches everywhere in every media how girls are still disadvantaged and severly punishes boys who are not obeying to the wished degree and overall biased grades. All this creates a negative feedbackloop early on and only a few can get around it if they are successful in some other specific disciplines like sport but the average guy basically get's beating into his head how shitty he is which also causes social awkardness. While the reverse is true for girls because more can "enjoy" their formative years by their strengths and even get outside reassurness. This is bound to create a gap which widens later and later. And a lack of self confidence is more devastating for men than for women and additionally it is harder for men to built this confidence early on because most either only lacking outside encouragement or as i said are getting even pushed back and intentionally getting any soil for their confidence destroyed. I'm not even taken into account the affirmitve actions, quotas and girls only funding programms. They are merely just excelrating the already existing gap and by absolute numbers are very slim.

Off topic: I'm running my inner hamsters since two weeks because my girl has her birthday next week and i can't make a final decision on the present. I cut it down on three options and as a former female athlete i hope you can give me the final tip on what to fall on because i'm pretty sure any of these will make her happy but i'm just an overthinker as usuall.

I wanted to invite her for a wellness weekend in our region but it's not possible so i thought about i give her a massage personally and spoil her little more than usual.
A fitness watch since she doesn't have one and either of us could use one.
I could silently sneak up on her while she was on her phone and she seems to want a new fitness outfit from labellamafia.

Thanks in advance :)

[–]poppy_blu1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Hasn’t the US education system always been grounded in verbal and visual learning? Yet girls only started passing boys within the last 20 years. Right?
So the fact that we need rules to function effectively as a society and boys are less likely to want to follow rules means boys are being discriminated against?
Same point as number 1.

a lack of self confidence is more devastating to men

This is your opinion and nothing else. There is nothing in the vast field of psychology that poor self esteem is any less detrimental to women.

affirmative action

Do you have data showing that men have been adversely affected by AA? Because all the data I’ve seen “affirmative action” hasn’t made much of a dent. Men are still running everything.

I’ve also noticed that when men here use the term “affirmative action” they’re usually talking about a sense of bitterness that women are being allowed to compete with men. Any job being held by a woman assumed to be “affirmative action” because of corse, women are always less qualified than men right?

Seems like you’re suggesting that women should be held back because our equality and advancement hurts mens confidence? Am I right?

[–]Goodthingstartssmall1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It always been but with an military/punishment like drill to force everyone even most of the boys who rebelled. Of course this isn't an option and i don't want this back even though i won't be affected by that. But an oppurtunity missed to establish more even methods.

This is your opinion and nothing else. There is nothing in the vast field of psychology that poor self esteem is any less detrimental to women.

Internal theres is no difference. Especially in dating and shy and unconfident men are mostly lost compared to women. In the workforce they are evenly lost as unconfident women.

Do you have data showing that men have been adversely affected by AA? Because all the data I’ve seen “affirmative action” hasn’t made much of a dent. Men are still running everything.

I’ve also noticed that when men here use the term “affirmative action” they’re usually talking about a sense of bitterness that women are being allowed to compete with men. Any job being held by a woman assumed to be “affirmative action” because of corse, women are always less qualified than men right?

Reverse question. Do you know any "men only" programms, actions or anything that might increase any mens chances in the workforce that outright stating only to want men and boys to be funded aside from sports internships?

Seems like you’re suggesting that women should be held back because our equality and advancement hurts mens confidence? Am I right?

Not at all. I want boys and men being encouraged, praised, reassured and taught according to their strengths and individuality just like girls and women are these days without this insolence happened in australia. Unless you think that it's impossible to encourage both genders and there has to be one gender held back and one gender is allowed to thrive as a whole then by that definition i want women to held back a little and men to be pushed a little to even it out.

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[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Well, Priscilla the Duck decided to allot us a handful of spinach to color our breakfast wraps. I suspect this was less generosity on her part as a simple inability to reach the center of the container with her beak. My boyfriend tried penning her and her mate, Elvis, in the calf's paddock but this only worked until Pris climbed the logpile/goat jungle gym and went whirring over the fence. Sigh. I guess we're not getting much spinach this year ...

Pris is quite the character; like her mother, she'll follow my boyfriend around and peck at his boots if he's slow at getting her breakfast. "C'mon hooman, hurry up hooman; corn plz ..."

I think this duck experiment is getting a little out of hand. My boyfriend bought a 50 lb. sack of shelled corn at Tractor Supply the other day; I asked how long it would last and he went Imgur.

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[–]Willow-girlAsk me about my ducklings 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

There's a creek that runs the length of our property. It has a wide spot in it -- your basic watering hole. The ducks like to hang out there, as on one side there's a culvert that goes under the driveway, where they can hide if a hawk flies over, and beyond the culvert is a nice semi-wooded area with trees overhanging the bank for good cover.

Mama built her nest in the same corner of the barn where she nested last year, in a big box stall. Right now, my boyfriend has a pallet over the corner the nest is in, so the cows don't accidentally step on it. (Oof) When the ducklings hatch, we'll close off the stall for a couple of weeks until they're big enough to motor around. Last year he put in progressively bigger water features (starting with a cake pan -- it's fun to see 18 ducklings crammed into a cake pan, lol) and dug up clumps of grass and even small shrubs to make a duck habitat, lol. Eventually we'll open the stall door and Mama will take them down to the creek and lead them to the watering hole. :-)

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I'm a pretty twisted puppy. That said, women are thirstier now than I have ever seen them. This, and to a lesser extent next, summers are my last to have a happy childhood.

This was helpful, along with an event at work. I was upset enough to be looking for options this morning. By the time we all got on the call, I was being thanked for how thorough my work was.

I guess I'm kind of high strung.

I should trust my work stands for itself.

I should also trust women.

If I was a MGTOW on a revenge mission, I could be the destroyer of worlds. The fact that I'm so the opposite of that, that I'm not even in the game, tells me I should be in the game...I think.

Done 2 of the vaccine in 2 weeks has a say, but to be totally honest, I feel fully vaccinated. Folks around here are zealots with their masks, even outside. (I am, but inside only)

edit to add: bitches fall for me. kind of tired of that. but obs. was my fault (plus so called blue pilled, really hardcore radical feminist, programming)

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Yea I'm happy that I'll be able to see my family. My grandma is turning 90 this year and she's been quite lonely since my grandpa died. My mom has been her caretaker over the last few years because of that. Part of the reason I would not ever consider visiting prior to myself and everyone else being vaccinated is because my close family and my relatives are all quite old. My mom and dad are in their 60s, my grandma is almost 90. My aunt is also in her 60s. One of my cousins is a caretaker for her terminally ill husband and has a young child which means I wouldn't even risk trying to see them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I am not seeing them because I want them all to be happy and healthy, and don't want to pass them a disease that is much more deadly to them than it is to me. However, it's still starting to wear on me a bit. I knowingly chose to live far away from my family, and they have loved and supported me every step of the way, but it still is shitty not being able to spend time with people I care deeply about. Honestly, posts/comments like what the OP said are fucking malicious.

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Why so pessimistic?

Maybe don't progress beyond this point

A ONS gets a drunk, sweaty, disheveled girl at the end of the night,

And a husband gets the no-makeup, Godzilla-rising-out-of-the-ocean mental-illness case that is his wife more often than not, so even at the worst, it's even.

the sex most likely sucks,

It's always good for the guy, without the worry of a dead-bedroom marriage trapping you.

and there’s no emotional connection.

Not relevant in the least.

A boyfriend/husband gets multiple date night outfits/looks

We have boxes in our pockets that connect to a thing that lets us look at millions of naked ladies who look better than you even if you're an 11/10 attractive woman

emotional support

At the cost of his wallet, because you don't get that if you're not making her enough money

thoughtful gifts

He could buy those things himself

actually good sex (because you learn what each other likes and are more likely to experiment with each other)

If he's lucky, more often than not it'll be a dead bedroom or it'll come with strings attached to do what she wants elsewhere

a board game buddy

I guess if board games are your thing, yeah

a travel companion

Who wants to go anywhere if they can help it?

and someone to actually build something with

Someone who has to throw all of their resources into building what she wants because "Happy Wife, Happy Life" aka she'll make your life miserable unless you do what she wants. He loses again.

Sure, he supports his partner when they go through a hard time, but he also gets support when he’s going through a hard time.

Women hate weakness, so actually he's more likely to hide it and suffer in silence.

There’s a pretty clear winner here, and it’s not the ONS.

That guy is the clear winner. The LTR is a chump and loser.

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One of my best friends said before I met her she used to think she was ugly in high school because older men didn’t want her lol. This was because her two close female friends were both fucking older guys. Like when they were all 15 one of her friends was with a 24 year old and another was with a 21 year old. It made her insecure, she “was like am I ugly? Why can’t I only pull high school boys?”

Now looking back over a decade later she’s like omg my friends were victims and those men were straight up losers but at the time that’s how she felt. It was like a status symbol. I saw it plenty in my school were older guys would roll up to my HS on some Rkelly shit and pick up my classmates. “I don’t like HS boys, there too immature hehe”. You goddamn right, hes 15 years old he’s supposed to be immature lol.

I felt this some times to with one of my best friends. He lost his virginity at 14 to a 20 year old. I remember playing basketball with him at like 13 in the park and seniors in HS would come and start aggressively lusting after after him. “I can’t wait till you come to our school hehe”

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The world is going to be screwed if an ACTUALLY seriously fatal disease breaks out. The media is hyping up COVID even more disproportionately now since they no longer have Trump to boost the headlines.

The media has been in a constant cycle of fear mongering gas lighting for over a year with no end in sight. They also have countless times have held special pleading for breaking COVID-19 protocols when it suited their political means (e.g. during the G. Floyd riots — "They're protesting something important!"). At this point, pretty much nobody gives a fuck, and nobody really trusts or believes the media. It's going to such if an actually deadly supervirus gets released into the general population.

On a side note, it's quite funny seeing how much they're blowing their load on COVID since Trump is out of the picture.

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I'm not gonna lie I still think that's burying the lead a little. "Normal people" are just as capable as shaming others (especially nowadays because people are just more openly and heavily opionated) but it might not be as targeted or vitriolic.

For example there was this one time in high school, I was out with a group of friends at the mall and we were browsing in one store and this really aggressive store clerk told us that if we didn't buy anything we'd have to leave.

So we did, now the clerk was kind of a heavy set woman, so after we left some of the girls in my group started kinda shitting on her and part of that was talking about her weight. Now the fun part is that another one of our friends is on the chubby side, and when she heard that she got really sad about it and started crying, so they ended up taking her to the girls bathroom to figure out why. And when they learned why they had to spend a good amount of time doing damage control because of it.

Do I think that my chubbier friend shouldn't let the opinions of others effect her so much? Definitely. But my other friends were also kind of in the wrong too, and their shaming came unsolicited. Instances like this are definitely pretty common from what I've seen.

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]cloudydays841 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Pardon my OCD, but it’s “lede.” I have no idea why I’m weird about that one, but I am. Apologies, I can’t help myself

No need to apologize, I've actually never seen that phrase written (it's actually very weird how many idioms I've heard but never seen written), so that'll be useful in the future. If anything I should be thanking you.

No one is saying they’re not. But someone being bitchy about a person who was nasty in the first place is a totally different situation - it’s not comparable to someone being weird about someone else’s preferences

Yeah that's fair, I was really just trying to illustrate that people shame each other a good deal, sometimes inadvertently. They didn't have to go after her weight they could've just said she was a mean aggressive bitch and it accomplishes the exact same thing. But they went with "fat shaming" and the fallout was much bigger (pun not intended) than they expected.

I've had my own preferences mocked before and I wasn't even open about them like that. It didn't really bother me but that kind of thing can happen whether you put them out there or not.

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making good professional connections is also luck and circumstances but that doesn't mean that putting yourself in situations where you're more likely to run into said connections is a waste of time.

Sometimes that can be easier said than done, and it's still not an assurance. There are so many places you could go. What's the odds that you pick a good one on the first go around? That's not really something you can vet for, and if you try, then you'll probably be spending as much time jobless as the people who vet for good partners stay single.

thinking too much about it can be counterproductive yes, but declaring attempts as wrong is also counterproductive.

That would depend on whether something is "an attempt" or if it was just something that happened. I'm a pretty spontaneous person, for example, so a lot of the things that "just happened that way" for me usually turn out to be the best. There was no trying. It was totally organic and natural. What I'm basically saying is that if you have to try and try hard with people, then maybe they're not for you.

[–]Goodthingstartssmall5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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If you go to the places these people are more likely to be in, you are more likely to "be the right person in the right place at the right time".what are you talking about.

Where would those places be and how are you and them going to be there at the same time on any given day?

There is no " One" and you can find multiple people that you could have amazing relationships with.

Sure, there is no "one," but given that most people aren't going to be compatible, your pool of potentials could probably fit inside of a football field. Now consider that the entire world is bigger than a football field and that puts things into perspective as to the odds of finding one of those people.

Luck plays a big role but your value and your actions GREATLY affect things.

Well yes that's what I said. You have to be the right person in the right place at the right time, which is all mostly luck for them to line up together.

[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Where would those places be and how are you and them going to be there at the same time on any given day?

Depends on who you are I guess. Organised trips, yoga, hiking, the library, the grocery store, some bar etc. etc.

Just think of where the girl you want might spend her day and go there.

Sure, there is no "one," but given that most people aren't going to be compatible, your pool of potentials could probably fit inside of a football field.

You are underestimating the people you can be compatible with. Men in particular can have an amazing relationship with pretty much any attractive, nice, low n girl.Bonus points if she is an introvert.I agree this isnt common in the modern world but it's not as rare as you make it out to be.

You have to be the right person in the right place at the right time, which is all mostly luck for them to line up together.

Let me put it this way. If you are a staying at home all day and low value, your luck will never come. If you are high value and you go to places where you meet a lot of women (especially women of the type you are interested in) , your luck will probably "reward" you quite easily.

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Where is the source on the idea that women need the level of foreplay being described here every time?

If men have higher sex drives than women do, on average, the need for foreplay on their part will arise from that, because foreplay is creating the desire for sex, similar to how watching porn makes men horny. Foreplay is the female-equivalent to watching porn, and they might need it more often because unlike men, that drive isn't already present within them. They need a trigger to start thinking about sex.

And how do you explain women who do quickies in the bathroom of a bar?

Alcohol and other substances make people horny.

Seems like they figured out a way around that need for some random stranger, but not for men they supposedly love?

Not really. It's a bit more complicated than that.

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Asked for a source and you gave a pseudo intellectual explanation.

That's because the source is differences in sex drives. Literally. You need to read it on some science article to believe the same info that someone is telling you?

So if your hubby is in the mood have a few drinks.

Some women don't drink, and I don't think any of them use alcohol as a form of viagra. They'd turn into alcoholics or drug addicts if they did.

How is it more complicated? Seems pretty straightforward. If you can fuck a stranger 10 mins after meeting him at the bar but you can't figure out a way to do the same for someone you claim to love what does that say about you?

It's more complicated because of things like resistance to stimulus and tolerance levels increasing. If you hear the same joke, it's not as funny the second, third or fourth time, is it? Likewise, if you're with someone for a year, things won't be the same as they were at the two-week mark. People get used things that they interact with or consume constantly, which then requires more stimulation for them to get a similar or the same effect as before. That's why people can get aroused or fuck different people quickly but it takes more work for people that they're already familiar with to get to the same point.

[–]NiceGuyNumber41 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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You need a source for the fact that women can have painful sex?

I said not CAN but do. You didn't say it COULD be you said it was. Definitive. So I'd like a source. Shouldn't be that hard if it's the truth. Find a source that says without hours of foreplay every woman has painful sex.

You need a source for female sexual arousal?

No I've seen the real sources, not from psychology which is hardly worth mentioning, but the actual biological processes that have nothing to do with the nonsense your saying. They say manipulating the clitoris will result in making the vagina wet and that is what prepares the vagina for sex.

Everything you're saying is not biological.

How is possible that an adult man doesn't know these things?

You're strawmanning what I'm asking for because you know you're wrong and no such source exists.

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I believe they were talking about foreplay generally? You seem to be injecting the hours long element.

Think of it like eating from a male perspective, sure you can snarf down 3 hot dogs in a minute but are you satisfied and satiated? Sure, maybe they were especially tasty (chili and cheese!). Heartburn be damned!

Women, it’s more complicated as only SOME can eat the 3 hot dogs without the ensuing heartburn/indigestion, some can’t. Those who can, may or may not be satisfied. God, those chili dogs were good, would have been better if not downed in a minute. Other women, while literally physically capable of eating the hot dogs, will feel like crap after downing them.

In any case, a person’s disposition to hot dogs is about as varied as women’s sexual arousal mechanisms, which makes it difficult to study.

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

How their bodies respond to sexual stimulation can be different from how our mental/overall physical selves respond.

Yes that's my point. What women need to change is your thought process. They don't require hours of foreplay to be aroused biologically.

Yet women insist that this is a biological reality. It is not. It's an issue with them and them alone. The concept that they have mental blocks and it's up to everyone but them themselves to solve that issue through effort is narcissism.

By the logic of biological capability aren’t you negating the possibility of male rape?

Wut lol.

If a man’s penis is stroked against his will, he can still get aroused.

But arousal isn't consent.

Even if we doesn’t WANT it, his body responds to the stimulation

You're SUPPOSED to want sex with the person you claim to love romantically. This whole comparison is nonsense.

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If we're talking about physical foreplay, don't just touch her when you want sex. Always be touching her,

Literally at every point of every day?

pushing her up against a wall and kissing her and then just walking away. Drive her crazy.

This will work every time? Kiss her up against the wall then walk away, sex after guaranteed?

Before sex, kiss and touch her everywhere, make her feel like want to worship all parts of her body.

How do you force her to feel that?

Play with her nipples.

In what way for how long?

Don't put your dick in her until she's frantically begging for it and squirming. If she's not desperate for your dick, you're not done with foreplay

That doesn't sound fucking exhausting to you? What's the time frame we're talking about here? Hours? Days? Do you not have a job or other responsibilities?

What exactly is she doing to repay this effort? She enjoys sex too right? So the repayment for all this one sided effort is something you both enjoy? That's an even exchange?

Or are you suggesting women SHOULD just be the sole beneficiaries of all this one sided effort because reasons?

What if you have kids and not much time in which to initiate these things? Resign yourself to no sex?

This is just ridiculous. Life isn't a romance novel. Physical intimacy is a form of intimacy that's important to maintain in a loving romantic relationship and you're suggesting women have zero responsibility to help maintain it

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Um no, she won't enjoy sex if there's no foreplay. Because sex without arousal is PAINFUL. Why don't adult men know this??

Because it's simply not true, at least not for all women. Genital stimulation produces a reaction. Manipulating the clit makes the vagina wet. This is why some women even orgasm from rape (NOT CONDONING RAPE WHICH IS HORRIBLE) I'm simply stating facts here.

Are you really shocked men have dead bedrooms when they think woman should be equally enthusiastic when they get genital pain and the man gets an orgasm?

Already debunked the nonsense idea that without hours of romance novel foreplay sex is painful for women that is such a juvenile point of view.

Who told you this? How is it that women can hook up with a guy they just met in the bathroom of the bar if they require the amount of foreplay you described?

Also can you please answer the several questions I posed to you? Seems like you dodged them all because you know the answers would be ridiculous.

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

How is it that women can hook up with a guy they just met in the bathroom of the bar if they require the amount of foreplay you described?

Because the man has turned her on? He SEDUCED her. That's what women want, to be seduced

Because it's simply not true, at least not for all women.

It is true. That's why sexual arousal causes lubrication, muscle relaxation and cervical tenting. To make sex not painful.

That's also why pharmacies sell numbing creams for women to use during sex. Why would they sell them if women didn't need them?

Your questions boil down to, "Why do men have to put in effort?" Because if they want to keep a woman sexually attracted to them, they do. That's the end of the story. Women put in all kinds of effort and money to keep themselves attractive to men. That's what you do if you value someone

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Because the man has turned her on? He SEDUCED her. That's what women want, to be seduced

I literally said they just met did I not? Like moments before. How did he manage to accomplish all the things you described as foreplay in ten minutes or less?

That's the end of the story.

I'm sure you'd like it to be.

Women put in all kinds of effort and money to keep themselves attractive to men.

Apparently not enough if they are complaining men don't do enough to turn them on before sex, correct? How is it their effort isn't resulting in him wanting to turn her on?

Until she makes him want to spend all that effort he won't. That's it. End of the actual story with a prologue and a note from the author.

That's what you do if you value someone

Yet women don't.

That's also why pharmacies sell numbing creams for women to use during sex. Why would they sell them if women didn't need them?

Because there are medical conditions that prevent proper arousal?

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No they aren't.

You're literally claiming no such thing has ever happened in the history of humanity definitively? Obviously you've never spent time in the club scene.

Why are you making these claims when you're a man and you've never been on the receiving end of Chad's seductions?

See it's this kind of nonsense. I've seen girls go home with chad without him even saying a word to her. I've personally seen a chad say 2 words to a girl and fuck her in the bathroom. This shit happens and it disproves your entire premise.

How is that childish?

That you honestly believe chad bothers with any of this nonsense is just immature. Chad gets what he wants without jumping through hoops. That's the reason he's chad.

It's often related to underlying stress and hormone change Ritter explains that this is due to “lower estrogen levels, which cause the tissues of the vulva and vagina to become thinner, drier, and less elastic.”

This creates painful sex which is why numbing medications exist. I can't believe there's adult women who don't know this stuff

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Women complain all the time about porn desensitizing men but the more I hear women speak about their own sexuality the more I realize it is they that deal with this problem much much much more.

When a woman starts a relationship with a man she finds attractive, at least in my experience, she needs next to no foreplay. I fucked my current girl behind a movie theater on our second date. We were with some friends and had some time before the movie so we took a walk and I walked her behind the place and it was on. No foreplay. No nothing.

Then you hear women describe the amount of foreplay they think is necessary and it's some romance novel level of narcissistic entitlement.

So what changes from the beginning when she was ready to go 24/7 to needing you to be Christian fucking Grey?

They get bored. Women are less suited to monogamy than men, and yet they can't reconcile in their minds the fact that the issue is with them. They demand every increasing effort from men to turn them on, and when the man finally gives up they blame him for the relationship breaking down.

It's a sad cycle and it will never change until women take some responsibility for their own nature and actually put effort into altering it

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do women realize that porn is just an action movie for our dick? to a somewhat normal person thats all it is, it takes a special type of tard to have porn really affect you. worst case scenario he simply can't get hard. social media and smart phone addictions are a much larger problem than porn addiction, you don't see guys looking at their phone every 5 seconds checking on some porn notification for a new scene from their favorite porn star or whatever, but so many normal women are walking around looking at their hypersocialization gossip rectangles at every opportunity they possibly can, you think that doesn't fuck women up? just look at all the mental problems and eating disorders they have now thanks to all the fake shit on instagram. tik tok is basically a 'look at me, worship me' app

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I'm exceptionally bored so I am going to share with you guys a high IQ theory of mine that only the the Discord server has had the privilege of being introduced to thus far.

Cuckoldry = Rape.

AutoModerator · 2021-04-19T20:00:13+00:00

This weekly thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc......

The logic is simple;

Women evolved to find rape traumatic because being impregnated by an unsuitable male carried the opportunity cost of her being unable to mate with a suitable male for 9 months, which was massively detrimental to her reproductive success. Men did not evolve such trauma to rape as it doesn't carry an analogous opportunity cost for them; a man mating with an unsuitable female merely cost him the hour-or-so long refractory period until he can ejaculate again.

However, a man unknowingly investing time and resources into raising a child that isn't his (cuckoldry) carries an analogous opportunity cost, as that time and resources could've instead been spent on raising his own children, increasing his reproductive success. Women are not vulnerable to this as obviously a woman knows a child is hers as she births it, but men do not have that privilege.

Thus cuckoldry and rape are enormously characteristically similar, and it makes total sense why women are the ones who have such an extreme aversion to rape and men are the ones who have such an extreme aversion to cuckoldry.

In fact, I would bet that whatever the psychological mechanism is that causes women to have rape fantasies is the same as whatever mechanism causes men to have cuckoldry fantasies.

You're welcome in advance for the smartest thing you've read today.

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All the men reported experiencing long-term psychological problems as a result of being assaulted.

Symptoms reported ranged from depression and anger to suicidality and a crisis over their sexual orientation.

Thirty percent of victims displayed high levels of somatic symptoms compared to none of the controls and 28% reported serious social dysfunction compared to none of the controls; 40% of victims displayed high levels of anxiety and insomnia compared to no controls; and, 35% of victims fell in to the severely depressed range compared to no controls.

Data from the Impact of Events Scale showed that 90% of the victims reported suffering from intrusive re-experiencing of the rape.

Rape victims demonstrated significantly lower self-esteem than the control group.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/17182826.pdf

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Women evolved to find rape traumatic because being impregnated by an unsuitable male carried the opportunity cost of her being unable to mate with a suitable male for 9 months, which was massively detrimental to her reproductive success. Men did not evolve such trauma to rape as it doesn’t carry an analogous opportunity cost for them; a man mating with an unsuitable female merely cost him the hour-or-so long refractory period until he can ejaculate again.

I think you are thinking about this wrong. A big reason rape can be so traumatic is the forced penetration. Being penetrated is a vulnerable thing, can be painful, and can even kill you (especially if done with an object, which some rapists have been known to do). Do you think you would feel traumatized if a man twice your size held you down and raped you in the ass? That is more equivalent to what women experience (and often is exactly what they experience).

Plenty of men would find rape by a woman traumatic also, though. There is another element about violating a persons most intimate areas that most humans extremely dislike, if you personally just don’t mind it you are probably a minority.

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Because I was late and the thread had got deleted, I'll post it here too:

Or your premise is wrong and women commit less suicides not because they have it easier, but because they're better adjusted and have better coping mechanisms.

If we look at suicide rates per country, we'll see that the worst stats are in Russia, Lithuania, Guyana, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Suriname and Ukraine. Do you think that women "have it better" in these countries and that's why they commit less suicides? We don't have any affirmative actions for women in Russia, feminism has become a thing here only recently, women's income is 1/3 less than men's and their pensions are lower on 5.5% too. Of course, it can be explained with maternity leave, but it puts women in a vulnerable position anyway. But we still have far less women who commit crimes, have addiction problems or end their lives with suicide. Pretty much the same can be said about Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.

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And economy arena doesn't just exist on its own. I can speak for Russia and here women are the ones taking paternity leave although it's legally possible for men to do so as well. And this does put them far behind men and it affects their whole career pathways. It's harder to get a job and it's harder to get promoted because you're expected to get your leave sooner or later.

And the studies you've linked have different conclusions:

The directions of the gender differences in performance we estimate are consistent with international patterns and we document that teachers’ grading is biased in favor of girls both in mathematics and in native language.

Overall, I find a substantial bias against boys in math, representing 0.3 points of the standard deviation (SD). This tends to confirm existing studies that find that girls are favored by teachers in math (Falch and Naper (2013), Breda and Ly (2015)). However, no gender bias is observed in literacy

Edit: also this https://www.in-mind.org/article/to-which-genders-disadvantage-are-school-grades-biased-girls-or-boys

Overall, the results indicate that girls still are considered less competent in mathematics than boys by their teachers, which sometimes leads to unfairly negative and sometimes to unfairly positive grades for them. They are evaluated better than boys if their classroom behavior is taken into account, which of course initially harms the boys. If, however, girls and boys with the same behavior are compared, the same performance of girls in mathematics and science is evaluated worse than that of boys, which in the long-term harms girls and exacerbates gender differences.

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So older women are better adjusted at least in terms of suicide

And younger women aren't.

Also , genuine question, do they make fewer attempts than men at that age or do they just do it less compared to when they are younger?

crimes and addictions are also important indicators of how a person takes care of themselves.

That's due to men's inherently more risk taking nature. Also different and harsher circumstances. Women that are down on their luck whore themselves, men steal things , go homeless etc.

Having mental issues raises one's risks, yes, but having issues and not treating them raises these risks even more.

You are assuming that these treatments actually work, which I find doubtful. Also, you are assuming that the percentage of men who don't get help is comparable to the difference between genders in antidepressant use.

One could argue that no person without mental issues (including depression and suicidal ideation itself) would intentionally kill themselves

Agreed. And many more women try to kill themselves than men.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have no idea honestly. I couldn't find exact stats for attempts, most sources just say that women do it more, so in my previous comment I was talking about the successful attempts. According to them women do it more in their 20s and men after their 40s and even more after 60s.

Buuut it seems that there is different data about it - https://medcraveonline.com/FRCIJ/who-commits-suicide-most-suicide-by-gender-and-age.html

https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567(09)60391-9/fulltext

So now I'm not sure what age group has more risks.

Although I found this study:

The suicide attempt hazard rate for female adolescents was significantly higher than for male adolescents (Wilcoxon χ21[n = 941] = 12.69, p < .001). By age 19, the attempt hazard rate for female adolescents dropped to a level comparable with that of male adolescents.

https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567(09)60391-9/fulltext

That's due to men's inherently more risk taking nature.

It still means that we raise boys in a way that doesn't actually help them and they need some extra help here.

You are assuming that these treatments actually work, which I find doubtful.

There are studies about it you know.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6389707/

Despite the between-study heterogeneity, interventions lead to a reduction in suicidal outcomes, i.e., suicidal ideation (55.0%) and suicide attempts (37.5%). The content and reporting quality varied considerably between the studies.

Agreed. And many more women try to kill themselves than men.

And far more men that women actually kill themselves.

[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Interesting studies but not really conclusive about what we were talking about.

It still means that we raise boys in a way that doesn't actually help them and they need some extra help here.

Does it? If women are doing similarly self destructive behaviors (like prostitution, antidepressant abuse or similar behavior), is it really a male thing? Men and women are different, we don't break down the same way.

There are studies about it you know.

Meh, I'm not convinced. There is an inherent sample bias in studied like that (for example the people that seek help might be in a better condition) .I understand though that it's a more controversial opinion so I won't insist on it.

And far more men that women actually kill themselves.

Because men actually use more effective methods to kill themselves. It's that risk taking nature again. I think we can agree that someone that tries to kill themselves isn't well adjusted regardless of whether they actually succeed or not.

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they don’t care about that. a lot of them do this shit with the hopes that he’ll eventually leave his woman for her, because she wants to be able to say “i took your man, bitch!”

side bitch logic is very simple: “i don’t deserve my own man, so i’m gonna share yours with you.”

for some of them, it goes even further: “i’m gonna try to take your man from you. if i manage to get him, i’m gonna get bored of him and dump him. then do it all over again with somebody else’s man.”

this is how they receive validation, they pride themselves on being side chicks. so the man she’s sharing is irrelevant, he is nothing but a pawn in her game. the dude could be ugly, fat, dumb as rocks, poor, an asshole, whatever; the side bitches don’t care. all that matters is he already belongs to someone else.

it’s like men who just love the chase and get bored once they’ve got the girl.

on the flip side, there are some women who do it specifically for the financial gain; but those are the high maintenance side bitches. they could still hold the same logic, just with a richer man.

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One of the most interesting things about women to me is how it doesn’t take much really to turn them off from a guy. Like she can go from I wanna fuck his brains out to eww gross with the drop of a hat.

Sometimes it’s just one off hand comment he made, or that one time he didn’t smell great, or that time he just looked weird to her. I was watching one of my favorite podcasts the Brilliant Idiots, and one of the guys was talking bout how when a girl agrees to come over his house, in the ride home he doesn’t say shit because he doesn’t want to potentially say anything that could blow it for him lol.

Even in the context of a committed relationship. Susan has been banging Charlie hundreds of times for years and then just one day it’s like nope and the relationship dies. It might not officially end, but symbolically it’s over once she doesn’t want to fuck him anymore.

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Attraction is all lizard brain shit - the more you try to logic it, the more you push it away

Only where appearance is concerned, not communication. You're leaving out the entire evolution of verbal communication and now saying that attraction is only based on appearance and body language? That would make this entire thread bullshit.

I once dumped a guy because he sweat through a shirt on a 100+ degree day ... And I lost all attraction to him in that moment. I knew full well it was ridiculous, but the more I thought about it and tried to rationalize it away, the more I was grossed out thinking about his sweat

This isn't related to what was being said about guys opening their mouths and women losing attraction to them based on something they said or the way they said it, not someone sweating through their shirt and a woman being turned off by it.

As an aside, you probably thought the guy was gross in a way before he started sweating, or you just don't like sweat very much.

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MHC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_histocompatibility_complex#In_sexual_mate_selection

Basically women have a super power, they can taste/smell the DNA of potential mates. Or at least a few key proteins relating to immune system development. To produce healthy kids your MHC needs to be dissimilar to that of your partners. If they are too similar, there will be 'gaps' in their protection.

It's a pretty remarkable capability, but only women have this capability. This is why smell and that 1st kiss matters so much to women (you're literally sampling his DNA).

You probably finally got a good whiff of him and your body realized that any kids would be sickly and told you to back off, 'ewww... I'm so turned off'. The thing is, it has nothing directly to do with him being good, or bad, it's just that the two of you together wouldn't be a good pairing. Chances are had the two of you been compatible (ie. dissimilar MHC) you'd have wanted to tear his shirt off and jump his sweaty body there and then.

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Yeah that woman was definitely nuts and developmentally arrested, though linked to the trauma of supporting her best friend through a rape and then experiencing her suicide. But her vigilante obsesses lion clearly isn't doing anyone any favors.

I don't think either gender comes across very well in the film. The Alison Brie character is also a c*nt. And poor bumbling Bo Burnham was just a nice guy at the wrong place at the wrong time...or was he?

My favorite part was when the best man tells the main baddie the morning after "you didn't do anything wrong" and he says "I kinda feel like I did..." I also loved the scene where she kidnaps the deans daughter.

Overall a delightful movie with a happy ending. I don't think I enjoyed a movie so much since midsommar. Could have used more murder but oh well.

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Women demanded that not men

No, men did. The sexual revolution was about men, and basically started with Playboy

Women were not itching to fuck randoms. Which is why it didn’t turn out like men thought it would

Except having to work the icky or dangerous jobs

In all fairness, more women clean toilets than men. Even today. The phrase is “cleaning lady,” not “cleaning man”

I’ve personally waxed hundreds, if not thousands, of vaginas. Some with very gross childbirth scars. Almost all with vaginal discharge

Women work icky jobs all the time. Dangerous, however, I won’t totally agree on, but the numbers overwhelmingly go to men

I think men are realistic and in touch with what they actually want

I disagree completely. The number of men who open relationships, then are shocked Picachu about their female partner having more opportunities is pretty telling - men don’t understand women, and don’t understand that what they want sexually isn’t going to play out like they think it is

Men aren’t absolved of irrational expectations

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never been told it’s bad

It depends on your hair and scalp

Not washing your hair everyday is good for the hair (especially if it’s over processed white girl hair, or textured hair) but can be really bad for the scalp

Dermatologists - who care about the skin and scalp - want us to wash every day. Hair dressers - who care about the hair - don’t. It basically comes down to what works for you

But the issue is that there women who somehow got the memo to wash like once a month. And that can be very, very gross

I had a client tell me about the time she found bugs in someone’s hair. Not lice - straight up bugs

Aren’t women more hygienic than men when it comes to showering

Showering, yes (I say as I stew in my own filth, having just walked into the house from the gym in time for a conference call ... and no time for a shower until after)

Not hair washing. Guys generally wash their hair more often, in large part because you guys average about 15% more oil production

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men on a macro level

I gave you a couple macro level examples

Completely false

No, it’s completely true. But do you have an alternate argument, or do you just think the sexual revolution didn’t happen?

Women told them it would be free love and they thought “sounds great” then women pulled the bait and switch

Except for the fact that women didn’t tell them that. Women had no social muscle at all at that time, and the very little voice they had was wrapped up in things like Ladies Home Journal (which was primarily focused on married women, and had been going back to the 1800s)

Hugh Hefner and the men of the hippie movement sold men that bill of goods

You’re confusing 70s era Cosmo under HGB with 50s era Playboy - there are literally decades, the actual sexual revolution, and second wave feminism between those points in time

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Not "anyone with eyes", but a person who doesn't really support equal rights or just believes in "it used to be better".

Depending on a country things are worse economically for both men and women and we're affected greatly by social medias, fomo etc. I guess that these are the main reasons why people feel less happier than their grandparent used to, not equal rights themselves.

And before you mention mental issues - I wouldn't use 50s stats to compare them to modern ones, because our understanding of mental issues has changed dramatically. During the Soviet Union we had punitive psychiatry and people were just afraid of seeking help. In the US in 50s doctors practiced lobotomy mainly on women in order to "cure" them. Hysteria as a medical term (that at some point of its history included the symptom of not wanting to get married and being infertile) went away only in 1980 and with the decreased amount of patients diagnosed with it we had a huge increase in diagnosed depression and anxiety.

[–]Special-Armadillo-99 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't believe it used to be better I believe people used to be happier. There's a difference between those two statements.

Depending on a country things are worse economically for both men and women

Due to women entering the workforce.

and we're affected greatly by social medias,

Consumed mainly by women.

fomo etc.

Not an issue with strictly enforced monogamy monogamy

I guess that these are the main reasons why people feel less happier than their grandparent used to, not equal rights themselves.

Just the side effects, plus I don't see what women demanded as equal rights since it's still men disproportionately doing all the dangerous dirty and unfavorable jobs that society needs to keep going.

In the US in 50s doctors practiced lobotomy mainly on women in order to "cure" them. Hysteria as a medical term (that at some point of its history included the symptom of not wanting to get married and being infertile)

It could include those symptoms but some woman who was perfectly happy and sane who did not want those things would not be lobotomized.

went away only in 1980 and with the decreased amount of patients diagnosed with it we had a huge increase in diagnosed depression and anxiety.

Mainly in women.

[–]NarniaFox 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends on one's interpretation. For people being happier, something else should have been different, most likely, better. It would be weird if things were worse, but people were happier because of it.

Due to women entering the workforce.

You should remember that most countries didn't have their equivalent of the US 50s, at least in Russia women always worked. They just didn't use to get money for their work. And capitalism as it is now isn't ethical or sustainable, it isn't surprising that people are suffering from it.

Consumed mainly by women.

That highly depends on what kind of social media we're talking about:

https://sproutsocial.com/insights/new-social-media-demographics/

Not an issue with strictly enforced monogamy monogamy

First of all, we weren't discussing how we can solve it, so I'm not sure why you've brought it up. Secondly, I think it has more to do with social medias and economic problems rather than with dating. People see lots of people who have this luxurious lifestyle and have fun all the time or at least show that they do it, but most of us have to make ends meet.

Just the side effects

Not of equal rights, but from our economy.

men disproportionately doing all the dangerous dirty and unfavorable jobs that society needs to keep going

I'm not sure about the US, but in Russia most nurses are women. And that is dangerous, dirty and unfavorable job too that society needs to keep going.

And I do think that the main goal of feminism is women's rights. Men should work for themselves in order to fight sexism towards them.

It could include those symptoms but some woman who was perfectly happy and sane who did not want those things would not be lobotomized.

You should read about lobotomies in the US, it's pretty grim and I'm surprised a lot of people haven no clue about it.

Mainly in women.

Because women more often seek help. Men, from the other hand, commit more suicides, have higher addictions rates and commit most of crimes.

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https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/gen-z

https://www.aecf.org/blog/generation-z-and-mental-health/

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2020-06/topline-mental-health-and-covid-061920.pdf

the last one is the only study i saw that mentioned any gender differences in, and the difference wasn’t large at all (only a 6% difference); and it isn’t specific to any one generation.

none of the other studies i found regarding gen z mentioned a difference between men and women. maybe the gap is closing with my generation, because almost everybody i know is depressed or something lmao

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4478054/

this is what i found that included a difference in how prevalent depression is in women and men, but it doesn’t really account for gen z specifically since it’s kinda old and the study was done on canadians.

i’m always open to being proven wrong though. maybe i’m reading things incorrectly, i’m admittedly not good with math or statistics.

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Do you think guys just start out being abusive? Do you think abusive men are mean to her all the time?

No. But what they aren't is nice to other people. Which is generally why men are good at figuring out who the assholes actually are, because we recognize when someone causes harm to others, whereas women only think assholes are people who are mean to them and them alone.

Usually it's an emotionally intense rollercoaster where the guy is Prince Charming one week and smacking you around the next. Then he's apologizing and promising he'll never do it again and buying you tickets to Paris. She gets addicted to the emotional intensity and the unpredictability. Abusive men usually are providing a lot of romance to make up for their fuckups

And completely avoidable if you only just listened to that guy who says "Hey, he's an asshole."

Women refuse to do it so I'm not sure why there's any sympathy due.

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But the point is that the genuine authetically nice guys are still going to get treated just as bad, and be just as unattractive as the faux nice schemers.

people say things like this as if attractive people who are genuinely kind don’t exist or are incredibly hard to find.

maybe it is for everyone else 🤷🏾‍♀️

The only difference between the faux nice and authentic nice is one lashes out verbally once there's no chance of any romantic relationship forming, and the other slinks away with their tail between their legs.

no, it’s not just that. it’s that the faux nice ones come already expecting something from you as “payment” for them being nice to you, that’s part of their strategy. if you’re capable of using discernment, this becomes evident before you even get to the point of him lashing out at you.

the only people who treat every single person who’s nice to them as if they’re disingenuous is neurotic people who don’t trust their own ability to discern whether or not someone is being genuine or has positive intentions.

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sure. but if he’s a genuinely nice guy, acting like an asshole is only going to attract women who are attracted to dysfunction and being treated like shit.

which isn’t necessarily a better strategy for him because then he’d have to keep up that facade in the hopes that the crazy girl who likes being streamed like shit sticks around.

his best bet is to just vet accordingly for women who can appreciate his kindness, because it seems like he’s gonna have a hard time either way. i’m also wondering if you’re confusing “being nice” with “being a doormat,” because these are two different things.

the best partners, male or female, aren’t out here advertising themselves. you have to find and vet for them. you won’t find them acting like an asshole, and you won’t find them being a doormat either.

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I think the biggest thing I learned on this subreddit is how often effort != results. You can work out every day for years but if you're short, ugly and awkward you aren't getting laid, but spend 30 minutes in a club when you're 6'2"+, handsome, and even mildly charming and you can walk out fucking a girl some guy is gonna spend the next 8 years simping for.

The world is very advanced, but human relationships are still built on our ape brains, and it'll take billions of years to evolve out of that. Once you realize this you'll realize that maximizing your value in the view of everyone's ape brain will provide 1000x greater returns than naively hoping for the best, or that "someone will find you when you stop looking" or whatever bullshit advice people bring up on relationship advice threads.

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Can I get some sources on where you heard women gossip about men that much?

Yes, let me just pull up this study by Psychology today about the % of time women spend discussing men 🤦

Anyone who's even slightly sociable will know it's just the truth. Not having an argument on it.

The women that I know that are forever single (don’t try to date and are not interested in dating) are happy..they have a lot of friends and family, a ton of hobbies and life fulfilling lives. But I don’t associate that with them being women.

You can reconcile the lack of romantic relationships with family and friends to a certain extent, I don't disagree

Regardless, your anecdote doesn't reflect all women in general.

Either you are made of the stuff to live a happy and fulfilling life single or you are not. It’s the same for men. If you are just “okay” with being single, chances are you are not actually okay, with men and women

My point is, men are better built for it. Men are generally less sociable, more adapted to loneliness, receive less attention from the opposite gender and therefore the prospect of loneliness is something they can adapt to.

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The difference is women do not murder innocent people because they’re bitter about being rejected.

Women certainly have murdered innocent people because they were bitter about being rejected (including, and quite often, their own children). We just don't give them a catchy name like 'incel'.

Women get angry over being rejected commitment just like men get angry over being rejected sex. And while men certainly prefer physical violence, women prefer their emotional and social violence. They love lies and false accusations and they have been known to choose poison or even guns to solve their problems.

Because a few women do this, doesn't mean all women do. Just like because a few men commit these atrocities, doesn't mean all men do.

And while men constantly condemn the actions of these few heinous men, and regularly put their lives on the line to prevent or bring to justice these men; interestingly enough women regularly cheer these heinous women on, praise them for their actions, and defend them.

So really... who's the more violent gender? The one that has a few nutcases, or the one that near unanimously condones it?

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rape shield laws

Ok. So I know you’re not American so let me school you here. In our court system, facts not relevant to the case about the parties are not admissible. It’s no more relevant that a rape victim slept around that it is a burglar slept around. In fact, you can’t even claim that a burglar who previously stole someone who else is proof they likely did the crime.

laws to alter presumption of innocence

Again in the US, our court system presumes innocence until the accused is proven guilty. That’s in the constitution. Pretty solid.

rape/assault definitions

I do agree that “made to penetrate” should be standard in the legal definitions as it encompasses a number of situations that are now in the grey area. Do you know how any states don’t include this in their definition?

Duluth model

Do have data on how many jurisdictions in the Us are still using this model? My understanding is that it’s long gone.

I gotta be honest. What I am taking from your tone here is that you see the rape victim as the criminal who should be punished. Cant say Im surprised about that though.

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Ok. So I know you’re not American so let me school you here. In our court system, facts not relevant to the case about the parties are not admissible. It’s no more relevant that a rape victim slept around that it is a burglar slept around. In fact, you can’t even claim that a burglar who previously stole someone who else is proof they likely did the crime.

Lol... There are more countries in the world than the US.

Again in the US, our court system presumes innocence until the accused is proven guilty. That’s in the constitution. Pretty solid.

But not in business, or academia. A simple allegation can completely destroy a man's life, irregardless of it's accuracy.

Women know they have the power, abuse it regularly, and then circle the wagons when called on it. Case in point.

I gotta be honest. What I am taking from your tone here is that you see the rape victim as the criminal who should be punished. Cant say Im surprised about that though.

Of course you would believe that. How else can you be a hateful bigot while still pretending you have the moral high ground without insisting I have ulterior motives? I mean that's feminist cognitive dissonance 101. It's the whole reason why 'nice guys' are really creepy and victim shaming is such popular cop-out by the left.

[–]poppy_blu1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

there are more countries in the world than the Us

Then next time try giving your comments a contextual basis by citing the specific laws in the specific country you’re speaking of and your critique of them instead of trying to apply random concepts to a legal system you don’t know or understand.

a simple allegation can destroy a man’s life

As can a simple act of firing someone or interfering with their career because they refuse to sleep with you and you hold the power.

Two things can be wrong at the same time and we can solve two problems at the same time. Yes we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

What’s “case in point?” Are you suggesting that me disagreeing with you on a debate sub is an example of women abusing power?

You may want to take a breath next time and read your furiously typed counter argument that you’re not expressing bias toward women and actually make sure you aren’t actually expressing bias toward women and proceeding to do the very thing you’re denying.

Truthfully, I think it’s so ingrained in you that you don’t even see it as bias.

I mean you didn’t deny anything I said. Right?

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Then next time try giving your comments a contextual basis by citing the specific laws in the specific country you’re speaking

Except you never specified you were talking explicitly about the states (and finding those laws would be trivial and you know it).

of and your critique of them instead of trying to apply random concepts to a legal system you don’t know or understand.

Pot calls the kettle black? The only one here lacking understanding is yourself.

As can a simple act of firing someone or interfering with their career because they refuse to sleep with you and you hold the power.

And that's called 'what-about-ism'.

Two things can be wrong at the same time and we can solve two problems at the same time.

I'm be impressed if feminists could solve even 1 problem 1 at a time. Dissolving our legal system and refusing to hold women accountable is solving neither problem.

You may want to take a breath next time and read your furiously typed counter argument that you’re not expressing bias toward women and actually make sure you aren’t actually expressing bias toward women and proceeding to do the very thing you’re denying.

Feminist don't speak for all women, as much as they may insist otherwise. I am certainly biased against feminists, and have never pretended otherwise, but not women as a whole.

In fact in my 5y as a bouncer I guarantee you I stopped and prevented more sexual assault and harassment on any given weekend than you have in your entire life.

But clearly I dared disagree with a women on an online forum... I must be a misogynist incel neckbeard... I mean I'm sure that one comment alone had me lose 3 inches in height and gain 20lbs in your mind. /sarcasm

What’s “case in point?” Are you suggesting that me disagreeing with you on a debate sub is an example of women abusing power?

No, you using false accusations to silence debate. Your first instinct was to imply I condoned violence and rape. Proving EXACTLY what I was saying in the first place.

So... check and mate.

[–]poppy_blu1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Yes and? Our conversation was on women working, not sex. Why are you being so daft and illiterate? The guy above is not advocating any position on the matter one way or the other.

All he is saying is that the only way to achieve equal distribution of sex is via authoritarianism and forcing women to act that way. That’s all the guy above is stating. Which I think is actually true. Liberal free societies create inequality inherently. There is no feasible way to distribute anything equally - whether that be sex or money - without authoritarian power.

You seethe so much about these truth claims that you think the above automatically means I want communism to be established. That’s just not true. I recognize that free societies produce inequality inherently. That doesn’t mean I want everything to be equal by law. Same goes for sex.

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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the vast majority of women have been with more men over 6 inches than under 6 inches and that most have been with at least one guy who was 7 inches or larger. Like if you were to ask women what the biggest dick they've ever had, the most common answer will be around 7 inches

If you do a survey and it says that, all it tells you is that women can't guess penis size for shit. I'm including myself in this.

Guys love to boast about whatever they're packing and they throw out numbers left right and centre. Since I'm not one to whip out a ruler every time I have sex (and also because I don't care what length it is) I kinda take it at face value whatever they say. Thus any guess I make could be wildly inaccurate since the scale I'm working from is out. I'd wager this is the case with most women. Same with height.

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>} 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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Q4Women: What exactly do you mean by "hardcore" porn? I'm relatively young, but originally hardcore just meant more nudity and shown penetration than softcore which usually left a lot more to the imagination. Do you mean like, hitting and slapping and being thrown around/choked? Because if so I'm confused as to how it's heavily promoted and as prevalent as you say. I exclusively use incognito to browse porn (even though I don't live with anyone and don't share my computer lol) so I always get the very fresh pornhub main page but I'm not being recommended that sort of stuff? Just regular PIV sex, the only arguably "hardcore" aspect of it is "jackhammering" which is just sex faster than normal, which in my experience is what most women want, I could literally count on one hand the amount of times I've been asked to slow down vs the amount of times I've been asked to speed up.

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From what I’ve personally witnessed and experienced in life, I honestly believe most people are neither gay nor straight - most people are some flavor of in between. Even if not far in between, just a hair shy of fully straight or gay. The “only tempted by one specific person in one specific situation,” and never again

I have nothing (outside of the problematic Kinsey study) to back this up, so I know I could be very off base

But a big part of what I’m basing this on is the fact that I’m a woman who is very straight. And because of that, the idea that other people have orientations and preferences different from mine doesn’t strike me as weird - it strikes me as just another variance in humanity, nothing good or bad about it. Pretty much all other species have homosexuality and bisexuality, why not humans too?

What does strike me as weird is the anti-gay/bi people - they seem so fucking convinced that those sexualities are just “confusion,” whereas I was never confused. I just like what I like, and I assume people with different orientations like what they like. So, those “gay people just need conversion therapy” folks must have had periods in their life where they were confused - they may not admit it, but it’s the only thing that makes sense to me

I struggle to put this into words, so apologies for it being a lot wordier than I wanted

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Weekly Community Chat Megathread

Comments

nah

Cuckoldry = Rape.

Title	Weekly Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	13
Comments	4415
Date	April 19, 2021 8:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/mu949m/weekly_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/weekly-community-chat-megathread.762464 https://theredarchive.com/post/762464